1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

OU Suspect Testing Round 3 Voter Identification and Suspect Nominations

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Philip7086, Mar 17, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,084
    Phewf, that was a long one eh? The first full-month suspect testing for BW OU has finally finished, so what are your thoughts? The "Top 15 + 15" method seemed to really work in encouraging people to push their accounts to the limit, judging by how high the ratings were this time around, compared to the previous voting rounds. Here's what the ladder ranks looked like at midnight, EST, and what we will officially be using to determine qualified voters:

    Midnight Ladder Screen Shot (open)
    [​IMG]


    Remember that the "Top 15" part will only include the top 15 Smogon user accounts, so anyone with multiple alts in top 15 will only be counted once. Because of this, I cannot tell you all what the cutoff currently is until everybody identifies, so even if you're not in the Top 15 + 15 right now, if you're close you should still identify your accounts!

    If you did not make the cutoff this time, but still think you deserve to vote, we are accepting Special Permissions applications. Please fill this form out and PM it to these users: Earthworm, Gouki, Jibaku, reachzero, and myself.
    On top of voter identification, this thread is also where everybody is allowed to post their suspect nominations. Here are some rules to keep in mind when submitting nominations:

    1. We are allowing people to nominate abilities for a ban vote. If you nominate an ability, keep in mind that it will be banned on all Pokemon who get it. If a Pokemon only has one ability and that ability gets banned, said Pokemon will also effectively be banned (at least, until its secondary ability is released in Dream World).
    2. You may not nominate an ability + Pokemon combo.
    3. Remember that you may also nominate current Uber Pokemon to bring down into OU for testing. If these Pokemon get voted down, they will automatically be suspect to a vote after the next round to determine if they should stay OU or not.
    4. You are not required to cater your nomination to any of the three 4th gen characteristics of an Uber. All we are looking for in these nominations are sound logic and nomination popularity.
    5. There is no minimum length per nomination; if you get your thoughts across, and you show good reasoning, that's all we need to see.
    6. All suspects that passed a simple majority but not a super majority last round are automatically suspects this round. You do not need to nominate them again.
    Reminder: This thread is NOT for getting into debates about whose nominations are good or bad. Please do not reply to any posts in this thread. I will keep the other suspect voting thread open for such discussions to take place. All posts breaking this rule will be deleted, and the users are subject to a forum warning.

    Finally, I just wanted to thank everybody who participated this round. We really appreciate the effort you all put into making sure we have the best tier list possible. Also, special thanks to reachzero for making the suspect thread for this round while I was on vacation. And finally, a very special thanks again to Super, whom we would not have a running server with the band we decide every round without! It would be nice if you all could thank them too if you get a chance :).

    Edit: whoops, I forgot to mention that the voter identification and suspect nomination phase of this round ends this Sunday at 11:59pm. Yes, it's shorter than it has been in the past, but that's because ii the past these threads don't see much activity past the first few days.
  2. Pidge

    Pidge

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,274
    somekind
    based god


    sorry if i haxed your ass with one of those ^

    Thanks reachzero, Super, and Philip7086. :]
  3. Snunch

    Snunch
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 8th Official Smogon Tournament

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,075
    I'm Bonaparte. Qualified for the second round in a row using the mighty Scolipede... just sayin'

    Excadrill: Copy and pasted from my previous two nominations:
    Yeah… if you don’t use Gliscor, Skarmory, or Bronzong, you lose to Excadrill. If you do and you play stall… you still lose to Excadrill.

    Drizzle: Not as powerful as before, but still incredibly overpowering. To put it in perspective, a hydro pump from modest Politoed in rain is more powerful than a timid Latios draco meteor, as is a hydro pump from a timid Starmie. There are a lot of nominations for Latios based on the power of specs draco meteor… Starmie in the rain is faster, stronger, has a surprise factor, utilizes a better defensive typing and almost as good offensive typing, and uses a STAB move that hits Tyranitar super effectively. More obscure threats are also made overwhelmingly powerful; agility subpetaya Empoleon will 2HKO both Blissey and Ferrothorn, needing only a bit of spikes support to sweep a team. Thunderus and Tornadus both can abuse base 120 STAB moves from a base 125 special attack while getting amazing coverage with focus blast that has propelled them to two of the top threats in the metagame. Jirachi can utilize thunder very dangerously on a number of sets, my favorite being sub CM. Azumarill’s CB waterfall hits harder than an adamant +2 Excadrill earthquake. The swift swim ban made rain more manageable, but it’s still stupidly overpowered.
  4. symphonyx64

    symphonyx64 Private messages are the best way to reach me
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,138
    Confirming as Fly High.

    Thank you reachzero, Phil, and Super.
  5. LizardMan

    LizardMan A sword isn't power. Knowledge is power.
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,788
    Confirming myself as Solum's core.

    Suspect nominations may be posted later.
  6. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,158
    Confirming as Mr. L

    Latios -- This thing is way too powerful, and there is virtually nothing that can switch into it safely. Specially Defensive Tyranitar is probably the closest thing to a counter, and is still mauled by two Specs Surfs after entry hazards. Scizor and Ferrothorn can also try to wall it, but I have seen some Latios carry HP Fire to deal with these two. After you remove all of the steels, this thing becomes a killing machine, and with its decent bulk and excellent speed, can continuously spam Draco Meteor until the other team is simply out of options. It is even able to bust walls like Jirachi and Blissey with Trick...

    Reuniclus -- While I never had the impression that Rank was over-the-top broken, its ability to break down both offensive and stall teams with ease should be enough to place it in the Uber tier. Calm Mind can switch in on anything that doesn't hit it hard enough (not hard to find), and make that Poke set up bait for Calm Minds. At that point, you need a Tyranitar, Scizor, or an extremely powerful Choice Bander to stop it (just for reference, not even Choice Band Tyranitar is guaranteed to OHKO 252 HP/252 Def Bold Reuniclus at full health!). However, the real thing that makes Rank annoyingly broken is its ability, Magic Guard. This makes it immune to residual damage, meaning it is almost impossible to wear down outside of offensive means. Trick Room is extremely frightening for some offensive teams to face, as it can outspeed the entire game with perfect coverage in 3 moves (Psychic, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast) off of 125 Base Special Attack and a Life Orb.

    Thundurus -- Unless you have a special wall on your team, you WILL need to sack Pokemon to deal with Thundurus. Its support set with Thunder Wave and Taunt can be annoying, but the real culprit of brokenness is its Nasty Plot set. At a freakishly trollish base speed level of 111 (wtf Gamefreak), this thing can set up a Plot on water types with ease, and rip major holes in teams. At that point, you need a strong Choice Scarfer like Garchomp to stop it. Its wonderful typing, awesome coverage (Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Ice), and resistance to the most common priority moves (Mach Punch and Bullet punch) only aid in its sweeping ability.
  7. wilson46

    wilson46
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    709
    Confirming as Overcast Nights.

    (also I'm wilson46 at 1428 -_-)
  8. zapzap29

    zapzap29 The obssessive man of passion

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    224
    This is detective runge and I've been on the aimi case for a while

    Thanks Phil, reachzero, and super

    Nominations Pokemon
    Thundurus- Thundurus is a little too good in my opinion. It's fast, powerful, and incredibly versatile. Whether it's the NP set, twave taunt, or mixed this poke always does serious damage. The NP set is incredibly potent as it usually takes down a few pokemon after a single NP. Switching in on this poke is nigh impossible and very few things can counter it after it gets up an NP.

    Latios- Latios hits hard and is capable of crippling dedicated walls like Ferrothorn, Jelliecent, and Blissey with trick. Even if you don't trick the incoming poke, Blissey still can't deal with Latios because of psycho shock. The LO set is also incredibly potent. Latios loses a little bit of power but can switch moves to do damage to more pokes. HP fighting variants can take on Ferrothorn and TTar to varying degrees. Latios is also a centralizing poke due to the fact that it can be splashed onto virtually any team.

    Deoxys-S- Deoxys-S is an incredibly potent supporter that almost always gets up screens or 2 layers of entry hazards. It also serves as a decent revenge killer due to it's wide movepool and incredible speed.

    Items
    Bright powder / Lax Incense- I think these items violate the spirit of evasion clause and only serve to make the game a little less skill based.

    Sand Veil on the other hand, is a thornier issue because a Sand Veil ban is basically a soft ban on pokes like Garchomp and Cacturne. I believe that said pokes should be tested in a meta without Bright Powder/Lax Incense instead of just butchering them right away.
  9. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,542
    I am gammaray73.

    Brightpowder / Lax Incense
    - These items should be banned under Evasion Clause since they provide passive evasion boosts. Based on principle alone, I think this is enough to warrant a ban on them; however, based on their merits alone, I still believe they introduce an undesirable aspect of luck into the game. I do understand that Pokemon should allow for a reasonable degree of luck to exist; however, passive evasion boosts undermine the concept of skill, another important facet of Pokemon, far too much. There is little practical risk in using evasion boosting items, yet the reward of a miss is immense in comparison.

    Sand Veil / Snow Cloak
    - These abilities should be banned based on the aforementioned reasoning.
  10. idiotfrommars

    idiotfrommars schemes and plots are the same thing
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,178
    All We Know is falling. Riots break out in the streets and destruction is eminant.

    Blaziken: Speed Boosts with amazing attack and special attack along with swords dance leads to an almost unbeatable Pokemon. This guy seriously has like one counter in Slowbro as everything else can be KO'd by one variation or another.

    BP+Shell Smash: With screen support BP+shell smash is an almost unbeatable strategy that can decimate teams with almost little to no effort. Since we are looking at BP in ADV I think it is only right that we take a look at its 5th gen equivalent.
  11. TEzeon

    TEzeon I'm a ramblin gamblin dude!
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    118
    Confirming myself as TEzeon and (even though it *probably* doesn't matter) Raitei Zeon

    Nominations:

    Latios: He has much less to worry about with the loss of the swift swimmers, putting him in almost a league of his own. Latios is basically a staple and will highly benefit any offensive team you splash him on, regardless of weather or the like.

    Edit: After thinking about it, I take back my nomination for a sand veil/snow cloak ban. These abilities are very situational, especially in a metagame where there are 4 potential weather effects that could be in play. For sand veil/snow cloak to be banned, it would have to be assumed that sandstorm/hail is always in play when the pokemon that have this ability are on the field, which will not always be the case. Weather abilities and moves can be used in much more creative ways than simply abusing the boost to accuracy, attack power, attack resistance etc.
  12. Iconic

    Iconic
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,900
    subdivisions and eriatarka yupppppp
  13. dbolt

    dbolt

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    464
    dbolt

    Thanks reachzero, Phil, Super.

    Brightpowder/Lax Incense: Missing one move because of these items can cost you the game. Should be banned under Evasion Clause.
  14. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,055
    hoppin in the Carpool Lane to drive to alaska to get me some sweet Eskimo Poon

    i guess i have to use english names now uuum

    Excadrill
    (copied/edited): Hits insanely hard, has really good typing, and 600 speed in sand. Its counter list is very very small and a few of them he can just power through with a rock slide flinch. People are finally starting to catch on that jolly balloon dory isn't taking advantage of dory's raw manly drilling power. Life Orb adamant is simply ridiculous and probably the 2nd hardest mon to counter in this past round (thundurus being first!).

    Reiniclus (copied):Magic Guard on what would already be a very solid mon just makes this thing ridiculous. It reminds me of Latios last gen (scizor or ttar or bust, and even ttar isn't a guarantee). Once this thing gets a calm mind under its belt it's insanely hard to take down. Trick room versions are also ridiculous as they are still bulky as fuck but also hit insanely hard and don't have lo recoil to wear it down.

    Drizzle:
    even though it was greatly nerfed, i still think it's way too good. the support it gives to the team almost forces other teams to run counter weather. boosted water attacks, nerfed fire attacks, 100% thunders. it's just way too good of a support ability and really hinders the game.

    Drought: pretty much the same reasons as drizzle except just change the perks around. it's not as common but having faced several well-built sun teams i can say they're just as good as rain teams and since chlorophyll is still around i'd say it's actually better right now (though the whole ninetales not being as good as toed issue presents a slight problem).

    Thundurus:
    maaan people are finally starting to use this thing to its full potential. sr weak and no recovery hurts it a lot, but most well played thundurus's should take down at least a couple mons before going down. if we pretend no one is using grass knot, you're pretty much limited to using one of the shitty ground/waters to counter this thing. just beastly.

    Latios
    (copied): specs latios is just as dangerous as it was last gen (maybe even moreso now that blissey can't counter it because of psycho shock. cm versions are also insanely dangerous. it's still fast in comparison to the metagame as most new mons fall just short of its speed.

    Sand Veil/Snow Cloak
    (copied): just lumping snow cloak in there for posterity. sand veil is the real culprit. there's a reason evasion moves are banned. evasion is retarded. getting automatic evasion in the sand is ridiculous. i always felt we should have done something about this in gen 4. if you use a 100% move on a pokemon, that move should hit. simple as that.
  15. Requiem[9]

    Requiem[9]

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    215
    Fire With Fire.

    Nominations:
    Brightpower / Lax Incense: I'm not sure why these aren't banned already, since they don't have the slightest positive effect. The only reason they would ever be used is to steal undeserved games, much in the same way as Inconsistent. I wasn't playing BW when Inconsistent was being tested but from what I understand, the only reason it was used was to randomly take one game in four or five, regardless of skill. While neither of these items is quite as powerful and play still requires some degree of skill, the principle is the same.

    Sand Veil / Snow Cloak: I'm not entirely sure about a blanket ban because of how many sets are taken from the metagame, but these abilities are incredibly stupid -- significantly worse than Brightpowder -- and something should be done. It should be up for discussion at the very least.

    Blaziken: With Protect, this thing forcibly and freely "sets up". Not only that, it continues to set up as it attacks, completely removing the idea of offensively checking something. Dealing with it involves sticking Slowbro or Burungeru on your team or playing riskily with pokemon like Azumarill and Doryuuzu; the latter of which requires sandstorm and won't get through Balloon and the former of which can forfeit enough momentum to lose the game. Against the mix set, without a counter, it's actually impossible to be at an advantage in the mid- to lategame. Even Slowbro and Burungeru are both 2HKO'd by Fire Blast in the sun and only Slowbro can do meaningful damage back, and only if it carries Psychic.

    Doryuuzu: Faster Metagross that comes with a free Agility! Not quite because of its dependence on Rock Slide and it's hard to feel like it's broken when Gliscor and Rotom-W fit so easily on most teams, but like Blaziken, beating it without Rain involves a "counter or bust" mentality that's not healthy for the metagame. I'm a bit on the fence about this one, but I'm leaning toward Uber.

    Rankurusu: I have CB Scizor and CB Tyranitar on my main team and I still feel vulnerable to this thing. I still am vulnerable to this thing. It's too bulky, too strong, too versatile. It might be funny to say it's too versatile with only two common sets, but that's more than enough to provoke a game-losing misplay.
  16. Meru

    Meru
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,103
    Meru is Meru.
  17. locopoke

    locopoke indulges in unsavory behavior
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,810
    Drought and Drizzle really don't need much of an explanation. The two most powerful field effects in the game due to the various boosts they give. Drizzle was definitely much weaker this round but I believe it's still too powerful.

    Excadrill - Extremely fast and powerful with only a couple solid counters. After Gliscor hits 50% it's no longer a counter as +2 LO Frustration lands the KO.

    Reuniclus - Too fucking good...

    Latios - Specs Dmeteor and all of that u know how it is.

    Latias - Devastating CM set, can do everything Latios does with more bulk.

    Arceus (Ubers)

    Sand Veil / Snow Cloak - Nobody likes these abilities.
  18. JLei2k

    JLei2k

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    153
    confirming as iamdrunk
  19. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    741
    Drought Extra 50% boost to fire types and elimation of water weakness, chlorophyll sweepers, more powerful now that drizzle's nerfed and ninetales has laerned how to deal with ttar.

    Blazekin no real counters, very hard to outspeed (and if you do he's trying again another time), only check is priority and residual damage (basically what a lot of people thought excadrill was originally- except this time it's really true).

    Sand Veil/ Snow Cloak/Brightpowder/Lax Incense Evasion Clause.

    Deoxys-Samazing set up and attacking movepool, ridiculous speed let's him invest to defenses and still set up first, most things that try to stop him or set up on him are ohko'd with the right move hitting then SE.

    ThundurusNP makes it amazingly difficult to wall, and priority thunderwave makes you sack someone to revenge (unless you have scarf chomp, scarf landlos, or Excadrill). Only thing holding it back if four moveslot syndrome, but electric/fighting isn't too bad neutral coverage if you can lure gliscor.
  20. undisputed

    undisputed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Frontier Lackeyis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,124
    I am Giant's ace Tim Lincecum.

    My noms are:

    Excadrill - It's pretty much retardedly difficult to stop aside from getting new weather if you don't want to use a physical wall.

    Weather - Fuck weather. The metagame is way too weather based for my liking. Instead of winning Pokemon, all I need to do is leave up Rain/Sun as the final weather effect and I pretty much win.

    I also think it's amusing that Landorus got overwhelmingly nommed last round but will likely not get a single nom this round.
  21. extra

    extra

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    595
    i am sb the goat

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  22. Stallion

    Stallion Joe Cool
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,363
    Confirming as Stallion, I'll post any potential nominations a bit later. Edit: cool my testing alt is in the top 70 lol
  23. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,396
    Confirming as someone who's praying for special permission.

    Drizzle + Swift Swim (Repealing Aldaron's Proposal)

    Yeah, I know nobody wants to hear it. However, this complex ban goes against the definition of banning. By banning the combination of Drizzle and Swift Swim, we immediately ban things that are not broken. If Garchomp is broken with Brightpowder, then we wither ban Garchomp or ban Brightpowder, whichever is broken. We do not tailor Garchomp for OU by combo banning. So why should we this gen? It's inconsistent and a little hypocritical. By instating this ban, we say that Luvdisc and Magikarp are broken in Drizzle. After testing them out extensively, I can conclude that Swift Swim Luvdisc and even Magikarp are not broken in perpetual rain. Therefore, Drizzle and Swift Swim together are not broken, so there is no reason why they should be banned. The point of the Uber tier into house the pokemon, items, and abilities that break the OU metagame, and by creating this complex ban, we fail to comply with our own definition of Ubers. We're not looking to create some idealized "healthy metagame" or what ever we rationalize banning non-broken things with, we're looking to create a metagame with only the Uber things in the Uber tier. Nerfing Magikarp isn't what we're looking for.

    I nominate, to replace Aldaron's proposal, a ban on Drizzle

    It's broken without Aldaron's Proposal in place, hands down. It's not good for the metagame, and it's sweepers are just a little too good. It goes with the same reasoning it had last round in that it makes Kabutops, Ludicolo, and Kingdra broken.

    Reuniclus

    It's too powerful. It's just too powerful. Mostly the Trick Room set, which can outspeed and kill just about anything, and it doesn't have to worry about Life Orb recoil. It can bust through all of its counters by using a Trick Room set with either Psychic or Psycho Shock, Focus Blast, and Shadow Ball. It can also attempt a sweep with Calm Mind, only having to worry about Spiritomb, which, face it, is a liability in this metagame.

    Latios
    Specs Draco Meteor. I have no idea how it survived the first two rounds.
  24. B-Lulz

    B-Lulz You ain't gotta love it 'cos the hood gone love it
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,412
    Confirming as mosnter mash because I can't spell, still saved my bacon since someone tried to steal the alt and failed horribly lol, will nom later.
  25. Giga Punch

    Giga Punch "No I'm not a porn star but I eat somebody"
    is the Smogon Tour Season 5 Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    758
    Confirming as Metronomic with the big 1428...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)