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OU Team Building

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Nova, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Qwertyuiop

    Qwertyuiop

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Looks like this hasn't been posted, so...

    [​IMG]

    Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Pain Split
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave

    Role: Special Wall, Tank

    What It Does: Rain is the dominant weather in this metagame and specially defensive Rotom-W happens to be one of the best checks to Tornadus-T, the poster boy of rain offense. It can also check Starmie, Politoed and other water types and severely damage them with Volt Switch. It's also a decent enough check for other special attackers like Rock Polish Landorus-I and few others. The 28 SpA EVs are needed to OHKO Gliscor without rain, while the other EVs are invested in HP and SpDef to give maximum special bulk. If you use Thunder Wave instead of Will-O-Wisp, you can cripple offensive Pokemon like Latios, Keldeo, Venusaur etc. while Will-o-Wisp cripples Ferrothorn, Scizor, Breloom etc. Pain Split is a semi reliable method of restoring your HP.

    Good Teammates: SpDef Rotom-W has problems in dealing with Lati@s, Celebi, Ferrothorn and the pink blobs, so Choice Band Scizor is a great partner, as it can beat these threats and also maintains momentum with its STAB U-turn. Celebi is also a great partner, as it can defeat problematic Pokemon like Breloom and Thundurus-T. Ferrothorn is a great partner as well, being a decent check to the Lati@s, physical dragon types as well as Water / Ground types like Gastrodon. Heatran is another Steel type with the ability to beat the problematic bulky grass types. Gliscor and Landorus-T also work well, as they have great synergy with Rotom-W. In fact, a combination of Landorus-T / Gliscor, Rotom-W and Ferrothorn gives your team resistances to every offensive type in the game.

    What Counters It: Latias, Blissey, Chansey and Celebi are the best defensive Rotom-W counters. Several physical offensive Pokemon like Dragon types and Breloom also give it trouble. Lum Berry Dragonite can come in on Hydro Pump and set up a Dragon Dance easily. Ferrothorn is a good check, but is scared of Will-o-Wisp which cripples it. However, with its propensity to Volt Switch out of its counters, beating Rotom-W becomes difficult, so it's best to have Stealth Rock on the field and hit it with strong STAB moves as it switches in.

    Any Additional Info: HP Fire or Ice are options to defeat specific threats. Either way, SpDef Rotom-W is a great Pokemon with the ability to beat a lot of Pokemon in the common rain teams.

    EDIT: Oh, forgot to mention that this is for use.
  2. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    I'm not sure that everybody likes it, but this set is really useful in Deoxys-D HO teams, and as it's a popular team scheme, this set can be a good asset when building these teams.



    To Use


    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
    Nature Timid
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast/Sustitute
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Destiny Bond

    Role: Spin Blocker / Special Sweeper / (Wall Breaker?)

    What It Does: This set is made to spin block in optimal conditions. The crux of this set is obviously the use of Destiny Bond and of Focus Sash.
    What this set does best is beating the usual counters of Gengar. With the Sash intact, you can take a Bullet Punch from Scizor and kill the Steel Bug with Hidden Power [Fire], take an Ice Shard from Mamoswine and destroy the Icy Pig with Focus Blast, take a Pursuit/IceShard from Weavile and doom the Dark Ferret with Focus Blast/ HP Fire…
    Virtually, there is no real counter to this set, because it does cash all on the surprise effect of Destiny Bond. However, even without this move, having a Focus Sash on a Gengar is an insane asset since it allows you to beat many paper pokemons who rely on the speed to beat Gengar.
    For instance, Gengar is often criticized for being slower than Starmie, thus killed by Psychic. Now, Starmie isn’t safe anymore, because you can take a Psychic and KO the Sea-Star back with a Shadow Ball.
    In fact Destiny Bond is really useful against Tentacruel especially, you won’t be using this spell a lot out of this situation. Indeed, Gengar deals pathetic damages to Tentacruel and gets killed by Scalds. However, now you can easily bait the Octopus and grab a kill with Destiny Bond on the killing blow.
    This set is really useful in HO teams because Destiny Bond can always act like a security net, Gengar being able to drag with him an annoying wall to the grave.
    Moreover, these teams hates the weather abusers like Chlorophyl users, Gengar can take one of their hits with the Sash and retaliate with a Sun Booster HP Fire. HO teams put enough pressure usually to prevent the SR setting, letting Gengar be a free agent.

    Good Teammates: This set is made to defend entry hazards so of course, you better have a pokemon able to set them up *cough Deoxys-D*.
    Moreover, Starmie isn’t a sure shot even with this build, because the Sea-Star can hit you on the switch and finish you. This is why you should pair Gengar with a Pursuiter able to revenge Starmie after Gengar’s death.
    Guess what? The best candidate for this job has been mentioned by Tobes and got his own explanation already. Weavile!
    He can outspeed and kill Starmie no matter what happens with Pursuit.
    The synergy between these two pokemons is even stronger, this Gengar lures and kill Scizor who is one of Weavile’s worst enemies. Moreover, Weavile beats base 110 pokemons who outspeed HP Fire Gengar like the Latitwins, other Gengars, Espeon. Because Gengar HATES being slower, especially when the Sash has been broken. Finally, Weavile switches in freely on Psychic and Ghost attacks which threaten Gengar, while Gengar switches peacefully on Fighting attacks.

    What Counters It: Well sadly, Destiny Bond is far from being a 100% kill move. You can reveal miserably your set before killing a Tentacruel. This being said, it is fairly hard for your enemy to guess the set (especially with the Substitute over Focus Blast set), unless he sees the Sash being broken (which won’t happen this Scald under Rain doesn’t 0HKO Gengar, so the enemy shouldn’t know your item).
    Faster pokemons usually beat this set because Gengar is frail and Destiny Bond doesn’t work on faster pokemons. Same goes for Priority users, if your Gengar lost his Sash, you’re weak to any of Gengar's usual counters.
    As any Sash user, a SandStorm or a Hail team can be annoying, and you need to make sure you don’t get residual damages from Stealth Rocks (since Gengar is immune to Spikes).

    Any Additional Info: For the Speed EVs, some people may wonder why not 252 in Speed ?
    Basically since you got HP Fire, your Speed IV is 30, so you better give up the 110 tier and focus on beating the lower tier, which is the 108 tier of Keldeo etc.
    This set does not fill the same purpose of the Sub/Split or the Sub/Disable sets. Indeed, these two sets aren't really efficient in a HO team when it comes to spin block, moreover they are pretty classic, and usually people know very well how to predict and play around them.
  3. isr

    isr

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    What To Use

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt / Thunder
    - Ice Beam

    Role:
    Rapid Spinner, Revenge Killer.

    What It Does:
    Starmie has been OU since RBY, and this has a reason: is one of the bests, if not the best Rapid Spinner that have appeared in Pokémon. This star is the fastest Pokémon able to use Rapid Spin in the metagame - excluding the ones with Sand Rush during sandstorm. It also is the perfect counter to Deoxys-D/Gengar core, thanks to it guaranteed OHKO in the not-friendly ghost with its STAB Hydro Pump, even outside of rain. Natural Cure helps Starmie to the nearly-perfection. With it, status ailments aren't problem, alowing Starmie to ignore poison (especially from Toxic Spikes), sleep and freeze, things that can be problematic to usual Rapid Spinners. With blazing Speed and a decent Special Attack stat, max Spe/SpA are the options to turn Starmie more efficient. That amazing STAB Hydro Pump is not all what Starmie has. BoltBeam coverage is a excellent pack to the actual metagame, allowing it to check Dragon-types, Gyarados, Breloom, Cloyster, and some others threats. In a metagame dominated by heavy rain, it can also opt for the most powerful Thunder, allowing it to 2HKO the only Ghost-type that can otherwise stop it - Specially Defensive Jellicent.

    Good Teammates:
    Starmie has problems with Pursuit-users, as they can prevent Starmie role latter in the game. These includes Tyranitar and Scizor, so, bulky Fighting-types and Magnet Pull users are great options. Conkeldurr and Breloom are both good teammates, hindering Tyranitar actions. Magnezone is Starmie's best friend, not only trapping a incoming Scizor, but also Ferrothorn that attempt to wall Starmie and doing heavy damage to it while using Rapid Spin against it. Magneton can also be used with a Choice Scarf, replacing some power for speed, outrunning things like Tornadus-T. Politoed's support is very appreciated by Starmie. In rain, its Hydro Pump have unimaginable power, OHKOing Gengar even without Life Orb. It also turns Thunder a viable option, allowing Starmie to forgo the weaker Thunderbolt and use its more powerfull version.

    Pokémon that dislikes entry hazards are always great teammates for Starmie. Some of theses are Volcarona, Dragonite and Salamence. Starmie can not only remove Stealth Rock that difficult they sweeps, but also helps against threats that can stop it, as Heatran and Terrakion. Otherwise, they can help Starmie against its counters and checks. Ferrothorn, Scizor and Blissey are some examples.

    What Counters It:
    Pursuit-users are the biggest problem for Starmie, as they can simply come in a Rapid Spin and defeat the seastar. Tyranitar is bulky enough to take a Hydro Pump, and will take back without pity. Take in mind, however, that if Starmie stay in, Tyranitar will fail to OHKO it with Pursuit, and will get defeated on the second hit. In those situations, the Armor Pokémon can simply Crunch the star to the death. Weavile is faster than Starmie and can easily defeat it with a STAB Night Slash or trap it with the previously mentioned Pursuit. It can also opt for a Focus Sash to prevent being defeated if Starmie choose to stay in. Choice Band Scizor has great chances to defeat Starmie with Pursuit even if it stay in or can simply choose to U-turn the switch-in, as Starmie will never KO the defensive variants with Hydro Pump outside of rain.

    Pokémon with massive bulk, as Ferrothorn and Blissey, can easily limit Starmie offensive presence. Despite Ferrothorn can not easily heal off as Blissey, it can take Starmie health with Iron Barbs (and more if it carry a Rocky Helmet) every time that it use Rapid Spin. They will not stop Starmie from spin away entry hazard, but note that if Starmie get defeat by Iron Barbs or Rocky Helmet recoil, the battlefield will not get clean from entry hazards. Rotom-W has a impressive bulk. Thanks to it, Starmie rarely will get a 2HKO, and take heavy damage from a Electric-type STAB attack. Some Pokémon with less usage, like Lanturn and Porygon2, can also wall the star, but be awary for a rain-boosted Hydro Pump, as some Pokémon that can usually stop Starmie will fail to do it.

    Despite having a great Water-type, and Psychic-type providing some useful resistances, Starmie is a bit frail with 60/85/85 defenses. Every time that it spin away some hazards with a Life Orb equipped, 10% of its health is taken away. Without Recover, passive damage is a great way to stop Starmie, but if it have this move, some coverage will disappear.

    Any Additional Info:

    The worse thing that Starmie can try is a defensive set. It can work sometime, but Starmie's main role is a offensive and fast Rapid Spinner. Scald can get a burn on Ferrothorn, but why using it when you can defeat its main targets with a powerful Hydro Pump? Tentacruel generally is better in this role. It can also use Recover, but will lose a lot of coverage. Psyshock can be used over Hydro Pump if you want to use it on Sun.
  4. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    I would use Leftovers instead of Life Orb, especially if I am using this on a sandstorm team. Sure, you lose power, but believe on me, I tried this with a Life Orb, and you don't want to have a spinner that die too quickly before it even has a chance to spin.

    To compensate the fact that it loses power, it would be better used on a rain team, where it could use Thunder and his Hydro Pump would be fortified.
  5. isr

    isr

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Yeah, yeah. On my Starmie, I usually prefer Leftovers too, because Life Orb-Rapid Spin is nearly suicide, but on this review (?) I opted for it because Starmie lose some important KO's. For example, it will fail to 2HKO Specially Defensive TTar. I will slash Leftovers with Life Orb. Thanks!
  6. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    LO Rapid Spin is usable in my experience, but you have to be packign Recover for it to work. Else Starmie just gets killed too fast.

    EDIT: Yes DFA; that was exactly my point. You have to pick coverage vs actually spinning properly.
  7. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    799
    But if you use both Recover and Rapid Spin, Starmie will have to sacrifice either Ice Beam or Thunderbolt, which means that it will either lose coverage against Water-types (especially Gyarados and Jellicent) or against Dragon-types. Sacrificing its STAB Hydro Pump is out of question.

    We are just talking about another Pokémon that suffers a serious (and on this case, a REALLY serious) case from four-moveslot syndrome.
  8. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude is an official Custom Title Rater
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor

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    props to Huntogthelion and Asek to start this project because i have been waiting for something like this for a while and yes you are both awesome!

    Special Walls I'm coming for you!


    [​IMG]
    Blissey @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def/ 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Aromatherapy / Stealth Rock
    - Softboiled / Wish
    - Seismic Toss / Flamethrower
    - Toxic

    Role: Special Wall

    What It Does: Well Blissey walls pretty much every single special attacker in the tier that lacks Psyshock with her massive base 255 Hp and big base 135 special defense and acces to reliable recovery in Softbioled. Not only is Blissey a great wall but she also provides great support to teams being able to use Stealth Rock or cure team mates of status with Aromatherapy. Blissey can also spread status around with Toxic or Thunderwave. Seismic Toss is a nice move to do consistent 100 damage to your opponent. Flamethrower is also a nice alternative to hit a lot of Steel-types super effectivly that would either set up on Blissey (Ferrothorn, Forretress) or just outright damage it (Scizor).

    Good Teammates: Physical Walls are nice partners for Blissey so together they can atttempt to wall what ever your opponent throws at it, Skarmory and Forretress would have to be the most notable Skarmory being able to wall most physical attackers that threaten Blissey and beat fighting-types with Brave Bird as well as set up hazards. In turn Blissey walls the special attackers that could harm Skarmory. Forretress works similarily except Forretress can Rapid Spin hazards that can wear out Blissey and if Blissey has Wish, he can provide Forretress with some recovery. Rapid Spinners are also good team mates so Blissey doesn't get worn out by hazards again Forretress is great but so is any rapid spinner really.

    What Counters It: Physical sweepers are the number 1 enemy to Blissey due to her pitiful base 10 defense and weakness to Fighting-type attacks. I am not even going to bother naming specific pokemon because honestly every physical sweeper you can think of can break through Blissey. Sub+CM Jirachi is also quite a threat having 101 Hp Substitutes that are not broken by Seismic Toss and Psyshock to get past Blisseys massive Special Defense.

    Any Additional Info: some people like to run 252 Def and bold but i think thats a waste imo base 10 defense is not enough to work with.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def/ 252 SpD
    Sassy /Careful Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Fire Blast / Superpower / Stone Edge

    Role: Special Wall

    What It Does: With Sand Stream boosting Tyranitars Special Defense he becomes a mean special wall capable of walling a lot of special attackers. one of Tyranitars biggest perks is his ability to Pursuit trap a lot of threatening special attackers like Starmie, Latios and Latias. Tyranitar still remains a big offensive threat with a good physical move pool and base 134 attack despite his defensive abilities. Sand Stream is also not only good for helping Tyranitar get a boost in special defence but also providing support for team mates, it gives Stoutland and Sandslash double speed and helps wear down opposing pokemon. Tyranitar is a great candidat for the move Stealth Rock and the last moveslot just goes down to what your team needs most really.

    Good Teammates: Pokemon that can take fighting-type moves are great Amoongus is good having a Fighting-type resist as well as water two types that annoy Tyranitar. Pokemon that can abuse the Sandstorm are also great Stoutland and Sandslash are notable due to their ability Sand Rush. Pokemon that can lure in Latios and Latias for Tyranitar to trap are also good such as Celebi who can U-turn out into Tyranitar.

    What Counters It: Like Blissey Tyranitar hates Fighting-type moves. Probally even more then Blissey due to his 4x weakness to the type. Even Special Attacks that are Fighting like Focus Blast are threatening to Tyranitar. Example of this would be Breloom, Keldeo, Conkeldurr, Terrakion. Although they cant switch in Focus Blast users like Gengar, Reuniclus in Trick Room and Alakazam can all beat Tyranitar with Focus Blast. Defensive pokemon that don't mind Sandstorm like Gliscor and Hippowdon can either Toxic Stall Tyranitar or threaten it with Earthqauke.

    Any Additional Info: Tyranitar also looks bad ass please use it!
  9. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    What To Use
    [​IMG]
    Stoutland @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Superpower
    - Wild Charge
    - Pursuit / Crunch

    Role: Revenge Killer, Late Game Sweeper

    What It Does: Stoutland is an incredibly effective pokemon under the sand, and it's amazing in it's 2 primary roles: revenge killing and late game sweeping. Stoutland has a strong STAB, good bulk, good coverage and a decent Attack stat. These aren't the traits of a top-tier OU threat are they? Well, Stoutland really shines because of it's ability: Sand Rush. Under the sand Stoutland's speed is doubled, this gives Stoutland a speed stat of 518, just one point lower than Choice Scarf Keldeo / Terrakion. Stoutland has lower Speed and Attack, it also has very similiar bulk and a weaker primary STAB. But Stoutland's ability to run a Choice Band and a +Atk nature rather than Choice Scarf and a +Spd nature and still have similiar Speed makes it a much better pokemon under the sand. Not only that, but Stoutland's STAB is only resisted by Rock (there's only Terrakion and Tyranitar in OU and they're both hit by Superpower), Ghost (there's only Jellicent and Gengar in OU, Jellicent is 2HKOd by Wild Charge and Gengar is trapped with Pursuit) and Steel (almost all of these can be trapped by Magnezone and most of them are hit by Superpower.) After getting rid of these 3 types (not really a difficult task with a bit of team support) and factoring in Choice Band and +Atk nature, Stoutland has perfect coverage with it's STAB as well as the speed of a Choice Scarfer with the Attack of a Choice Bander. A truly deadly combination.

    Good Teammates: Sand is essential for Stoutland to be viable, so either Tyranitar or Hippowdon are great teammates. Hippowdon is usually the superior option due to much, much better synergy. Anything that can trap Steels makes a perfect partner for Stoutland. Both Choice Specs Gothitelle and Choice Specs Magnezone do this job well, but Choice Specs Magnezone is overall better at the role, because of it's superior Special Attack and resistance to Scizor's U-Turn, Scizor's Bullet Punch, Ferrothorn's Power Whip, Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, etc. Either a Pursuit trapper or defensive pivot is also pretty useful. The likes of Tyranitar can Pursuit trap Gengar and Jellicent, and the likes of Rotom-W can keep Jellicent at bay and it can switch in on Gengar and Volt Switch out to Stoutland so it can KO with Pursuit.

    What Counters It: Not much really. Pretty much every pokemon in OU is 2HKOd with the correct coverage move. Only healthy Gliscor's, Landorus-T's and Hippowdon's are the only things that really scare Stoutland once it's resistances are dealt with, but they can be taken care of with a bit of offensive pressure.

    Any Additional Info: Stoutland is a dog and dog spelt backwards is god :o
  10. TheSuperSaiyanBreloom

    TheSuperSaiyanBreloom

    Joined:
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    This was putted in the Not To Use section. Just pointing that out.
  11. Qwertyuiop

    Qwertyuiop

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Note that standard defensive Landorus-T is a great Stoutland counter, as CB Return never 2HKOs even after SR, and without, has a chance of being a 4HKO. Landorus can then switch to a resist, or retaliate with a strong EQ, which does ~60 - 70% iirc.

    EDIT: 64+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stoutland: 187-222 (60.12 - 71.38%) while -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 130-154 (35.23 - 41.73%) -- 81.64% chance to 3HKO.

    Anyway, I'll write about another good revenge killer this time...

    Use by the way.

    [​IMG]

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide / Earthquake / Sacred Sword


    Role: Revenge killer, Late game cleaner (?)

    What it does: Terrakion, like its fellow musketeer Keldeo is an excellent revenge killer, sporting 108 base speed, allowing it to outspeed everything upto +2 neutral natured base 80 speed Pokemon (read +2 Dragonite, Modest Venusaur and Adamant Stoutland in their preferred weathers). Its STABs cover pretty much the entire metagame, notably getting super effective hits on all speed boosting dragons, Volcarona, Stoutland, Gyarados, Tornadus-T, Scarf Thundurus-T and other threats. Stone Edge and Close Combat are obvious options, being STAB moves; X-Scissor dents Celebi and Lati@s. In the last slot, Rock Slide is usually preferred being more reliable than Stone Edge. Earthquake can help you damage Toxicroak who walls you otherwise, while getting a good hit on Jirachi, but is easy to take advantage of due to the abundance of Levitating or Flying type Pokemon. Sacred Sword ignores all boosts, so can be useful for hitting... Dialga? Honestly, you only need Stone Edge and Close Combat to succeed, use whatever in the last slot that helps your team most.

    Good teammates: Generally, a scarfer is chosen if it can remove specific threats which can, having set up, destroy your team. Therefore teams which appreciate DD dragons, Volcarona etc. being removed are those in which Scarf Terrakion fits best in. Generally, your team should have something which can defeat Gliscor, Landorus-T etc. which wall Scarf Terrakion easily, so Rotom-W is a good partner. Tyranitar increased Terrakion's SpDef, giving it superior bulk, but adds a crippling weakness to priority in general. Gyarados works well with Terrakion, being able to set up on Scizor, Landorus-T and Gliscor pretty easily. The Lati@s also work well, being able to lure in Dark type attacks, giving Terrakion what is effectively a CB boost, though it is pretty unreliable.

    What counters it: Unlike Band Terrakion, Scarf Terrakion can be more easily played around. Gliscor and Landorus-T are excellent switch ins; they force Terrakion out due to taking insignificant damage from its moves. Slowbro, Celebi (as long it avoids X-Scissor), Donphan, Hippowdon etc. also force it out as they are not 2HKOd. Jellicent can also take a hit, cripple Terrakion and recover its HP. Without Earthquake, Toxicroak is a good counter. Scizor, Breloom and Conkeldurr have STAB super effective priority moves which will kill Terrakion, so are good offensive checks.

    Additional comments: Terrakion may no longer be the best revenge killer among the musketeers, but it is still pretty damn great at its job.
  12. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Landorus-T didn't really come to mind, as it has no recovery outside of Leftovers, so it's very easy to wear down. Anyway, thanks for pointing that out, I added it to the counters section :)
  13. cabforpitt

    cabforpitt

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
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    What to Use

    [​IMG]

    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 76 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Role: Special Sweeper

    What It Does: This guy is probably the best Chlorophyll pokemon in OU and a major threat in the sun. With a Growth under its belt, very few things can take a boosted sludge bomb. These EV's let it outspeed Scarf Lati@s in sun, and +2 sludge bomb will do massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Giga Drain 2hko's tentacruel, and HP fire destroys Jirachi. Almost nothing besides Blissey, Chansey, and Heatran can come in, and Blissey/Chansey without T-wave or flamethower get set up on to +6 with giga drain keeping you healthy.

    Stuff it works well with: Ninetails is absolutely essential to Venusaur's success. Other good partners include Dugtrio to trap Heatran, the worst check. Other things that kill Politoed, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon are good to have. Heatran can take fire moves aimed at Venusaur, and trap other weather users.

    What Counters It: Heatran, Blissey and Chansey are just about the only things that beat Venusaur. Tran is not at all worried by this set. Blissey and Chansey use their massive Special Defense to wall you, although toxic/S-toss variants are set-up bait.

    Venusaur is also notable with its difficulty to revenge kill. Powerful priority even has trouble killing you, with Mamoswine and Weavile being the only ones able to handle you. Since Venu is so fast, only a very small amount of Choice Scarf users can kill him, and Scarf is rarely seen on any of them.

    Weather Starters are also threatening, so make sure anything that can ruin your sun is dead. However, not many of them can take boosted giga drains, so they need to be wary coming it.

    Any Additional Info: Venusaur is a top sun abuser, so either have a way of dealing with the weather, or dealing with it.
  14. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    What to use
    [​IMG]

    Latias @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Surf / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    Role: Tank

    What It Does: Latias is an incredibly effective tank. It utilizes its devastating Special Attack, amazing speed, and outstanding Special Defense to tank hits and pound teams with its Draco Meteor's. The most amazing thing about Latias is probably it's typing. It has some of the most important resistances to have in the current metagame: Electric, Fire, Fighting, and best of all; Water. These resistances, combined with Latias' stellar Special Defense, allow it to take down almost every offensive threat commonly found on rain teams (Politoed, Rotom-W, Keldeo, Thundurus-T, etc) which is a ridiculously good trait to have in a metagame where rain is everywhere. Not only that, but the fighting resistance and access to STAB Psyshock gives Latias the ability to check pretty much every single OU Fighting type and there's alot of them. If that wasn't enough, Latias' Fire resistance combined with multiple other traits, allows it to check almost all of the pokemon commonly found in the current standard team archetypes. That's alot of great resists. There's not really much else to say about Latias, it's resistances, bulk, etc allow it to tank alot of hits, retaliate with powerful hits, check both sun and rain etc.

    Good Teammates: Specially Defensive Rotom-W is an amazing teammate for Latias, it'll give your team a second water resistance (which is almost a neccessity atm) and it checks pretty much all the Special attacking threats that Latias will struggle with (Tornadus-T, Gengar, Starmie etc), has great synergy with Latias, gives your team a second check to alot of the things that Latias is only a shaky check too etc. Anything that can eliminate pursuit trappers, primarliy Scizor and Tyranitar, the pink blobs, Specially Defensive Steel types, eg. Bronzong, Jirachi and Ferrothorn, is greatly appreciated. Choice Specs Magnezone can trap Scizor, Ferrothorn, Bronzong and Jirachi then kill them off with either Thunder or Hidden Power [Fire]. Dugtrio can trap Tyranitar, the pink blobs, and Jirachi. Physically orientated pokemon with Fire / Ground coverage are perfect for expunging all the aformentioned threats, the likes of Garchomp, Salamence etc fill this role perfectly. Finally, Latias hates status, so a cleric and / or some kind of status absorber would make a great teammate.

    Any Additional Info: Latias is a much better tank than Latios, her old brother, in any team that's not Hyper Offense because Latias' superior Special bulk is just too important to reliably check / counter a majority of the pokemon mentioned earlier.
  15. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    775
    I strongly disagree here. Defensive Starmie is quite a good set, it's surprisingly bulky and while surely not a sturdy wall, it's hugely useful to have some ability to absorb damage and regain HP for your main insurance against SpikeStacking strategies and similar. Add to the mix the capability to cripple those pesky switch-ins with Scald, a very good typing that allow it to check things like Keldeo (in some circumstances, please don't just dismiss this saying that Rain Specs Hydro Pump OHKOs, you're obviously not using Starmie as your main answer to Keldeo, but still having something that outspeeds and can do a nice chunk with Psyshock is quite nice). Oh well, I did write a little textwall only to answer to you, I can go all out and post a set as well.

    Use.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
    Timid | 252 HP / 24 Def / 8 SpA / 224 Spe
    - Scald
    - Psyshock / Thunder Wave / Hail / Reflect / whatever support move you need more
    - Recover
    - Rapid Spin

    Role: Rapid Spinner, Support, Utility Counter

    What it does: Defensive Starmie is a bulkier version of your standard Offensive Starmie that you probably used a million times for your Spinning needs. This time, however, Starmie adopts a more defensive approach to Spinning, and this is ideal for those teams that are absolutely crippled by hazards or Stealth Rock alone, and cannot afford to lose their Spinner easily. Starmie's very decent defensive typing, speed, and movepool, make it a very valuable support pokemon, being capable to absorb status, switch into common, non-excessively-powerful attacks (like Breloom's Mach Punch, Keldeo's Secret Sword, and all those pesky Scalds that try to burn your precious physical attackers), shrugging off the damage with Recover, and crippling its checks itself via Scald or Thunder Wave. Just in case you're asking youself, EVs are tailored to give maximum bulk while outspeeding everything up to base 111 (yeah, Tornadus-I is rare, but it's foolish to let it outpace you just for 1-2 more Defense points). 8 SpA EVs ensure the unconditional OHKO on 4/0 Gengar with Psyshock. The rest should be pretty much straightforward.

    Good Teammates: Since Starmie is a support pokemon, this should be probably seen the other way around: what pokemons can have Starmie into their lists of Good Teammates? The list is quite comprehensive, to be honest: everything that desperately need Rapid Spin support, like Gyarados, non-Roost Dragonite, Volcarona, Cloyster, all Fire types not named Heatran, and many, many others, benefit greatly from Starmie's durability and Spinning capabilites. Other good teammates are Gliscor and Ferrothorn, that both can take advantage of Starmie's resistances while providing type synergy and forming a good defensive core with it (obviously there's still some weakness to be covered by teammates, but that's kinda normal). Magnezone or Dugtrio can alleviate Starmie's Pursuit weakness (and the latter also loves hazards removal), thus they can be good teammates, too.

    Any Additional Info: Not much, really. I'd just suggest to test it before dismissing as garbage, I used to dislike it myself, then I tried it and really loved how it works.
  16. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    The problem with Defensive starmie (really everything but LO starmie which has its own issues) is that it can't get past jellicent. So If they jellicent and your team relies on spinning you have problems.
  17. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    775
    If that's the problem run Toxic over Psyshock and Pringles becomes a non-issue. To be honest, since you need LO to 2HKO Jellicent, that means even more residual damage, and with some hazards in place, Starmie dies quite easily with just wearing techniques. The defensive version is mostly immune to said problems, and can handle Jellicent as well, as I just illustrated.
  18. isr

    isr

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Defensive Starmie is generally a bad idea because its heavy outclassed by some others Pokémon. Starmie has great Speed stat and Natural Cure, but Tentacruel is much more bulky and has Rain Dish with Black Sludge/Leftovers recovery. Also, it suffer from 4 Move-slots syndrom much more than the standard Offensive Spinner. As Scald, Recover and Rapid Spin are nearly-obligatory, you can not use Psyshock to check things like Keldeo (and Gengar!), Thunder Wave to stop fast sweepers, or Toxic to cripple Jellicent at the same time. Starmie also has great resistances, but Tentacruel also has while not being weak to U-turn and Pursuit. I think that Offensive Starmie ability to deal with all spinblockers (except Shedinja?) with little support is what makes it better than the defensive one.
  19. Friar

    Friar

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    615
    I like defensive Starmie a lot. It faces competition from Tentacruel, but I've found Tentacruel to be extremely underwhelming when outside of Rain. Starmie's high speed and access to Recover has consistently impressed me when I've used it. Being able to go "mixed" with Psyshock is quite nice, as it can be relied on to stop Terrakion or Keldeo from dismantling a team on the revenge kill. Jellicent is #33 in the usage stats at 6.6%, and can be worked around with hazards of your own or other decisions in teambuilding. Starmie is also an amazing Deo-D + Gengar counter, which might actually be the reason I like it most.

    I found Rotom-W to be a good partner for it actually, as both can stick around throughout a match, and both can induce Burns to wear down Water-resistances. Doubling up on Grass weaknesses is far from troubling, especially when they are so easy to pair with a Pokemon like Dragonite.
  20. HardCore

    HardCore

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    256
    To Use

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Spd/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
    Adamant or Jolly Nature
    -Swords Dance
    -Bullet Punch
    -Bug Bite
    -Super Power

    What It Does: In this fast pace meta with very little stall Priority users are able to flourish with sweeping potential. Scizor has been used for sweeping in past gens and is still showing off his claws. When people see Scizor they think is it Choice Band or Life Orb. Due to Scizor’s large attack stat (394 or base 130) along with his powerful technician boosted stab moves he is usually a threat. Many teams are prepared for Choice Band Scizor, but the massive power Swords Dance Scizor has sweeps much more efficiently. The speed on Swords Dance Scizor is simple to outspeed Pokemon in his range of base 65 to 80, and more specifically other Scizors and slow Heatrans. Scizor is able to 2hko or OHKO absolutely everything in the metagame with this amount of power with these powerful moves. Super Power enables Scizor to 2HKO Skarmory and Forretress after one use of Swords Dance, so this set is the most deadly of all Scizor sets.


    Good Teammates: Scizor’s only weakness of fire is a huge plus to using him over other priority users. Dragonite, who is weak to ice, dragon, and rock is one of the best team mates for Scizor, because they coverage each other’s weaknesses except rock. Dragonite is also a good choice due to his versatility and resistance against water typed moves, which have potential to OHKO Scizor in rain and some out of rain. Another good teammate for Scizor is Rotom-Wash. Rotom-W covers Scizor’s fire weakness, tanks water typed moves, and provides your team with bulky support that has the access many moves that prep the way for Scizor to sweep. They are Will o Wisp, Hydro Pump, Volt Switch, Thunder Wave, and Painsplit. Needless to say Scizor functions best on Sand and no weather teams although sometimes in rain weak hidden power fires won’t KO him.

    What Counters It: Scizor even at +2 isn’t strong enough to take out some Pokemon. Full health Skarmory, fast Heatrans, Jellicent, most Celebi’s with Hidden Power Fire, Zapdos, and Taunt Gliscors are general Scizor counters. Ways around these counters would be all up to prediction and of course the rest of your team! Bulky Water types that outspeed Scizor are also a threat to Scizor, because of Scald’s 30% burn rate.

    Any Additional Info: This moveset is definitely perfect for the current metagame, but not everyone wants to run max speed on Scizor due to his potential bulk with only a little investment. Make sure you are aware Choice Band and other Scizor’s sometimes are also running speed, so better safe than sorry. Jolly is generally too weak to get as many OHKOs as I’m sure you’d like with Bug Bite, but has been used in BW OU before. An extreme variation of this set is the bluff set, which is usually bulkier with Uturn, Bullet Punch, Roost, and Sword Dance. This uses Iron Plate or Insect Plate to bluff about the same damage as Choice Band Scizor.
  21. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    389
    I think LO Scizor is much better off with a Jolly nature so it can outspeed Timid Magnezone, Adamant Breloom and Celebi/Jirachi with minimal Speed investment. The power drop isn't particularly noticeable - you won't miss out on any significant KOs, but the increase in Speed can make a huge difference.
  22. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    775
    How can you say that Defensive Starmie is outclassed? No other Spinner has Natural Cure, a great Speed stat, and access to reliable recovery. Tentacruel is very easy to wear down if you use it in a non-Rain team (yeah despite what it seems while laddering, weatherless teams exist) and while I can concede it's great in the rain, it suffers from problems Starmie doesn't care (for example, Gengar can switch into Rapid Spin, Substitute while you Scald, Disable, and then switch to something else or just stall you out if you don't carry Ice Beam, while Starmie can T-Wave or Psyshock. Also, the only spinner LO Starmie can take down that Defensive can't handle is Jellicent, however that requires Rain AND LO. That's not exactly what I'd define a good situation, since another weather can make your Thunder miss, and you can be worn down thanks to LO recoil (not to even mention that in a weatherless team Thunder is not viable at all). I've used extensively LO Starmie to Spin away hazards, and while it's great in teams that can work even with SR on the field, if your team is centered on, say, Volcarona, the defensive version is the way to go IMHO.
  23. isr

    isr

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Okay, I expressed myself badly. Outclassed is not the right word for Defensive Starmie. However, it still inferior to the Offensive Spinner. Starmie only need Thunder AND LO to 2HKO the Specially Defensive Jellicent. The Physically Defensive still exists. But I think that Tentacruel is better in defensive Rapid Spinning. Gengar switching into Rapid Spin is not a great example. If you know that the opponent has a Gengar, why you don't use Scald predicting when you using Rapid Spin is a obvious movement? Also, if Tentacruel carry Protect, Gengar will not beat it with Disable. 100 base Speed is not bad at all. Outside of Rain (and on teams that need a more durable Spinner), a simple Starmie with Leftovers or Recover is better in my conception. Defensive Starmie is not 100% bad, but the Offensive one is better.
  24. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    Use this (I know that Heatran and Keldeo were already posted, but those are different sets):

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon / Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVS: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd (An spread of 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef is also viable; always use 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd if you use Flame Charge)
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) (Modest should be used if you run a bulky spread)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Flame Charge / Will-O-Wisp / Toxic / Stealth Rock / Taunt

    Role: This is actually hard to define. This Heatran is somewhat of a supportive attacker, since it's more offensive, but has ways to support the team. But with Flame Charge, it could instead be classified as a special sweeper. I would define Heatran's hole as a Tank, Support, Late-game sweeper (if it runs Flame Charge)

    What it does: Heatran is peharps one of the best, if not the best offensive supporter for teams. It has a lot of applications that are extremely useful for all teams. First, it acts as a check to Dragons that lack Fighting- or Water-type attacks. Second, it defeat almost all Steel-types with its STAB Fire Blast, and even opposing Heatran, the only Steel-type that laugh at Fire attacks, are defeated by Earth Power, as long as they don't carry Air Balloon themselves. Third, Heatran is the best counter to sun sweepers, and if you manage to get rid of Dugtrio, Heatran can easily annoy a sun team to the hell. Finally, it can have a different role, depending of its last move.

    Fire Blast is an obvious option for STAB. It defeats all common Steel-types, except opposing Heatran, and also defeats the ubiquitous Grass- and Bug-types, that are actually very common on the metagame. Earth Power is there mainly because otherwise, opposing Heatran would wall him. But Heatran is also useful on other situations against Rock-types, or against Magnezone on rain, or when you cannot afford a miss with Fire Blast against Lucario or extremely weakened Steel-types. Hidden Power Ice is there to defeat Dragon-types, Gliscor, and Landorus. This is the move that allows Heatran to check Dragon-types. With that EV spread, Heatran can outspeed max speed Adamant Dragonite, and after Stealth Rock, OHKO him. Hidden Power Ice also OHKOes Garchomp, as long as it doesn't hold Yache Berry, and can OHKO any Salamence that lacks Brick Break.

    The last move has a lot of useful options. Flame Charge is the main one, as with it, Heatran can be a late-game sweeper. Also, Flame Charge allows Heatran to beat Dugtrio if it opts to not use Air Balloon. After it uses Flame Charge on the switch, Heatran can use HP Ice (or Fire Blast, but HP Ice is more accurate and OHKOes Dugtrio anyway) to OHKO Dugtrio, since not only Heatran outspeeds Dugtrio after a Flame Charge, but Flame Charge breaks Dugtrio's Focus Sash. However, there are other moves that Heatran can also run. Will-O-Wisp and Toxic are two viable status moves that Heatran can use. The former surprises Fighting-types (except Conkeldurr) and Gyarados, expecting to be able to defeat Heatran. They are crippled for the rest of match if they switch on this move. Toxic, on other hand, is more effective against bulky Water-types, as they would be able to stall out Will-O-Wisp if they pack reliable recovery. As no Steel-type is going to switch on Heatran, Heatran is almost guaranteed to badly poison an opponent. Toxic is also the only way which Heatran is going to defeat Volcarona 1x1, as apart from a Fire Blast critical hit, despite being able to wall Volcarona, Heatran can't actually do much back. Apart from these three options, there is a fourth. If there are no other Pokémon on your team to setup Stealth Rock, Heatran is always there to do this job. However, there are many other, more reliable users of Stealth Rock. Only use this if there are absolutely NO OTHER viable users. Taunt is the final viable option. With it, Heatran can beat Forretress without letting him setup hazards. Heatran can also surprise Chansey/Blissey switch-ins, as well as disrupt CM Jirachi on rain, and surprise many other setup sweepers. However, Will-O-Wisp is a more effective way to surprise physical setup sweepers, while Toxic is more effective against special ones. However, Taunt is able to catch both in one move, and Toxic is not effective against the aforementioned CM Jirachi.

    The EVs let Heatran outspeed Adamant Dragonite (even with 252 Speed EVs) and OHKO him with HP Ice after Stealth Rock damage. As Heatran will be using HP Ice, there is no point to run max Speed, since Heatran will never be able to outpace opposing Heatran that don't run HP Ice, and there's nothing notable that you outspeed by running max Speed. So, the leftover EVs go to HP, to give Heatran a little more bulk. If you use Flame Charge, however, always use 252 Speed EVs. Another viable EV spread is a bulky one, with 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef and a Modest nature. This lets Heatran act as a more efficient tank, and Heatran can now actually take Dragon-type attacks better. For example, Heatran only has a small chance to be 2HKOed by +1 Adamant Dragonite's Outrage after Stealth Rock, and without Stealth Rock, it's never 2HKOed. However, Heatran is now outsped by a lot of things, the most notable ones being defensive Gliscor and Adamant Dragonite. Look the benefits of each EV spread, and choose wisely.

    As for the item choices, the main one is Air Balloon, because it's that item, combined with the move Hidden Power Ice, what lets Heatran check Dragon-types. Heatran can also avoid Earthquake/Earth Power on other situations, like against Hippowdon and Celebi. It can also reliably defeat opposing Heatran that pack Earth Power, as long as they don't have Air Balloon themselves. Heatran actually acts as a great check to Hippowdon if it chooses to use Air Balloon, and even a counter, if Hippowdon doesn't have Ice Fang, as Heatran can avoid an Earthquake and 2HKO with Fire Blast if Hippowdon doesn't invest on Special Defense (even without Life Orb, Fire Blast is a 2HKO). A Life Orb is also a viable option if you choose to run Flame Charge on the last slot, as Heatran will pack much more of a punch that is needeed to sweep. However, Heatran can no longer effectively check Dragon-types, and even Air Balloon is still a viable option with Flame Charge.

    Good Teammates: Ninetales is a good partner because Heatran has its Fire Blast boosted by the sun. Heatran can also take care of some Dragon-types that are problematic for sun teams. With Earth Power, it can also get rid of opposing Heatran, which are also problematic for sun, especially if they lack Dugtrio.

    This is not to say that Heatran is not effective outside sun teams. Sand teams can also use Heatran to a great extent, since they actually have problems dealing with sun sweepers that have boosted their stats. Heatran can also deal with Skarmory, a big headache for most sandstorm sweepers. Weatherless teams also benefit from the fact that Heatran is protecting them from being swept by sun teams.

    A good partner is Jellicent because with Air Balloon, your opponent is forced to use Water- and Fighting-type attacks to deal with Heatran, but Jellicent at same time discourages that your opponent use these attacks, since they are free switch-ins to Heatran. Jellicent can also spinblock in case that Heatran decides to use Stealth Rock, and the opponent wants to spin it away. Celebi is peharps the best partner to Heatran that exists. Not only Celebi resists all Heatran's weakness and vice-versa, but Celebi can also deal with the bulky Water-types that Heatran can't touch, while Heatran deals with the Dragon-types that Celebi has problems with. The only type that the two don't resist thogeter is Rock. Starmie also resists Water and Fighting, and can get rid of most Water-types using Electric-type attacks. Latias and Latios are also two other good partners that resist Fighting- and Water-type attacks.

    What counters it: Chansey and Blissey are the best counters to Heatran. They shrug off anything that Heatran throws at them. Even if Heatran packs Toxic, they have Natural Cure to get rid of poison. Even if Heatran surprises them with Taunt, they can simply use Seismic Toss to slowy kill Heatran. However, if the pink blobs decide to use Toxic + Flamethrower/Ice Beam, Heatran actually walls them. Any bulky Water-type that is not weak to Ground (because of Earth Power) can effectively counter Heatran. They take little damage from Earth Power, resist Heatran's other moves, and can defeat him with Water-type attacks. Politoed is peharps the worst of them, since it can summon a rain that greatly cuts Heatran's effectiveness. However, all of them, except Hydration Vaporeon and Starmie, must avoid Toxic, and those that don't pack reliable recovery, like the aforementioned Politoed, must also avoid Will-O-Wisp. Gyarados is another Water-type that can beat Heatran, but on a offensive way, however, it must avoid Will-O-Wisp, and is weak to the Stealth Rock that Heatran is capable of laying.

    Breloom is the only Grass-type that actually beats Heatran, since it is also a Fighting-type, and can OHKO with Mach Punch. Bulky versions of Heatran can even be outsped and KOed by Low Sweep. That said, Breloom must avoid Fire Blast or Will-O-Wisp on the switch, since it will be OHKOed by the former, and crippled by the latter. Also, Poison Heal versions of Breloom can actually be beaten by Heatran, as long as they aren't behind a Substitute, since they don't pack Mach Punch, and are outsped and OHKOed by Fire Blast.

    Speaking of Fighting-types, they are also great checks in general, though most of them must avoid Will-O-Wisp. Conkeldurr and Keldeo are two exceptions: the former actually has its attack boosted by Will-O-Wisp (or Toxic) thanks to Guts, and the latter doesn't mind burns, as it is a specially-based attacker. However, Conkeldurr is 2HKOed by Fire Blast (even if Heatran does not use Life Orb), so it's not completely safe. Terrakion is a good check, but besides Will-O-Wisp, it is 2HKOed by Earth Power (except on sandstorm). If it manages to switch-in safely, however, Terrakion can wreck avoc. The next switch-in will certainly take a lot of damage from Choice Band-boosted Close Combat. Lucario outspeeds Heatran even with an Adamant nature, but it must avoid Fire Blast, Earth Power and Will-O-Wisp, so Lucario is hard-pressed to find a good oportunity to switch-in on Heatran.

    If you manage to pop Air Balloon, Heatran gains many other checks. For example, Gliscor only needs 236 Speed EVs to outspeed and OHKO Heatran with Earthquake. Hippowdon becomes a good check, as it can survive one Fire Blast and retaliate with Earthquake. Choice Scarf Landorus can outspeed Heatran even after one Flame Charge boost, and OHKO with Earthquake or Earth Power. Gastrodon can also use Earth Power to defeat Heatran, although most Heatran are going to switch out anyway, for the fear of Scald.

    If none of these options can be used, there's always one thing that can defeat Heatran: the surprise factor. For example, Scizor can OHKO Heatran with Superpower. However, Scizor must hit Heatran on the switch, as the only way which it can outspeed Heatran is if it does not run speed EVs, and Scizor does run. As long as Air Balloon has been poped, Venusaur can make a nasty and rage-inducing surprise to Heatran with Earthquake. Venusaur with Hidden Power Fighting can also surprise Heatran. Venusaur doesn't generally run those moves because it's going to lose coverage on other, more relevant threats, so rest assured as Venusaur is hardly going to use these moves. Avoid trying to check Dragonite partnered with Politoed, since it's certainly going to use Waterfall. The only time where you can check this Dragonite is after Stealth Rock, if Dragonite hasn't boosted its Speed with Dragon Dance, and it doesn't use a Jolly nature. However, many Dragonite can actually surprise Heatran with Superpower, even outside rain teams. Like Venusaur, Dragonite rarely carry those moves, so you can rest assured. Dragonite generally don't run Waterfall anyway, as it is going to be walled by Ferrothorn otherwise, and Ferrothorn is an arguably more relevant threat than Heatran (especially to rain teams). Heatran laughs at almost all moves that Celebi carry, but if it has Earth Power, then Heatran is fucked. And to a magma monster, it will be very embarrassing to lose to a little cute fairy.

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVS: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Electric] / Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Icy Wind / Surf

    Role: Wallbreaker, late-game sweeper

    What it does: Keldeo is peharps the best user of Choice Specs on OU, and for good reason. Keldeo has the same stats of the monstrous Terrakion (only the SpA and Atk are reversed). Can't run a Fire-type Pokémon or Fire-type attack to defeat Steel-types? No problem, Keldeo is there to defeat all Steel-types that you are going to encounter. Scizor is always OHKOed by Hydro Pump, even outside rain, while Skarmory is also OHKOed after Stealth Rock damage. Secret Sword 2HKOes both Ferrothorn and Heatran, while Forretress, can't survive a Hydro Pump, even when not boosted by rain. Metagross is also another Steel-type that can't survive Hydro Pump, even when not boosted by rain. Even specially defensive Jirachi is 2HKOed by Hydro Pump, OUTSIDE rain! Keldeo has a lot of things that separate him from other Specs users, first, is its resistance to Stealth Rock. The second is Secret Sword, which bypasses Blissey and Chansey, making Keldeo the only special sweeper that can easily defeat them (without any prior setup) on the entire game. The third is a good speed (same as Terrakion) and a respectable bulk (Keldeo is not OHKOed by Starmie's Thunderbolt)

    Hydro Pump is the main Keldeo's STAB. It unfortunately has a bad accuracy (same as Stone Edge, the "worst attack on the game"), but its sheer power compensates for that. The things said above just show how the last thing that you would want is to understimate Hydro Pump's power. Secret Sword is the secondary STAB, that has an amazing effect; it hits opposing Pokémon on their physical defense instead of their special defense (similar to Psyshock). This means that Keldeo can easily bypass the bane of most other special sweepers, the pink blobs! Blissey is always OHKOed, while Chansey is always 2HKOed, but has a chance to be OHKOed after Stealth Rock damage! Secret Sword is also a good attack with amazing neutral coverage, good to use in situations where you cannot miss with Hydro Pump. It's important to note that Secret Sword 2HKOes Gastrodon, which means that Keldeo can use Hidden Power Electric instead of wasting it on Hidden Power Grass. Almost all other Water-types must use Hidden Power Grass because for them, catching Gastrodon is more important than to catch Gyarados and Tentacruel.

    Speaking of Hidden Power Electric, it is the main option on the third slot. It offers much-needed coverage, hitting super-effectively things that resist both of its STABs, such as Tentacruel, Gyarados, and especially Jellicent (a pokémon that is immune to both Hydro Pump and Secret Sword). Hidden Power Electric also hits most bulky Water-types slighty harder than Secret Sword, as long as they aren't specially defensive. Hidden Power Ghost is an alternative that, while not hitting Gyarados and Tentacruel for super-effective damage, catches Lati@s and Celebi, two things that resist both Keldeo's STABs AND Hidden Power Electric. It's best used on rain teams, where Hydro Pump will be boosted enough to 2HKO Gyarados and Tentacruel with it.

    The last slot is reserved to Icy Wind. Sure, it's a mediocre, weak attack, but it has enough power to, when boosted by Choice Specs, 2HKO Latios, 2HKO some Latias, and OHKO Salamence and Garchomp and 2HKO Haxorus without having to resort to Hydro Pump. It can also 2HKO Dragonite (OHKO if Multiscale has been broken). It also catches Venusaur, while serving as a more accurate attack than Hydro Pump to OHKO both Landorus and Gliscor. Its side effect is nice, as even if you predict wrongly, you can possibly switch to something that can beat the opponent when its speed is lowered. However, Icy Wind can be replaced by Surf. Surf is a good alternative to use, instead of Hydro Pump, when you cannot afford a miss. It's best used on rain teams, in tandem with Hidden Power Ghost, where Surf will be used as the main attack, OHKOing or 2HKOing the aforementioned Steel-types without having to resort to Hydro Pump's bad accuracy, while Hydro Pump will be used against Pokémon that resist it, as most of them will be 2HKOed anyway due to rain.

    Good Teammates: This Keldeo doesn't need specific teammates, as it has sheer power, and enough coverage to get past of most of its counters. In fact, it's the Pokémon that will want to be partnered with Keldeo, as its wallbreaking power allow many Pokémon to sweep late-game. That said, Politoed and Tyranitar stand out as the best partners to Keldeo. The former boosts Hydro Pump to insane levels, transforming Hydro Pump on an atomic bomb capable of powering through many Pokémon that resist it! The latter defeats Latios, Latias, Celebi and Jellicent, allowing Keldeo to spam Hydro Pump without much problem. Tyranitar also appreciates the fact that Keldeo defeats some of its biggest enemies, such as Scizor.

    Paralysis support is nice, so that Keldeo becomes somewhat of a sweeper. On rain teams, this can be provided by Jirachi, but Celebi is also another good option. Jirachi is a good partner in general because it can defeat Tornadus-T, a problem to Keldeo if it manages to switch-in safely. Again, this Keldeo doesn't really need specific partners in general, as it can wreck avoc on every non-sun team by itself.

    What counters it: This Keldeo has no true counters, as Keldeo, with the right move, can bypass all of them. Slowking, Specially defensive Jellicent and Specially defensive Celebi are the closest things to true counters that Keldeo has. Specially defensive Celebi can wall Keldeo that don't carry Hidden Power Ghost, but it's 2HKOed by that move after Stealth Rock damage. However, Keldeo has many checks that it must watch out for. Such checks are Tornadus-T, Choice Scarf Thundurus-T, Jolteon Lati@s. All of them can, if they manage to get on battle safely, OHKO Keldeo with the appropriate move. Starmie can also do this, but Thunderbolt will not OHKO a full-health Keldeo, so Starmie needs Psyshock to effectively always OHKO Keldeo. Choice Scarf Landorus and Choice Scarf Terrakion do about 80% damage to Keldeo with Earthquake (on the sandstorm) and Close Combat, so Keldeo must still watch out for sandstorm teams. Should Keldeo lose the speed tie, it's murdered by a Choice Band-boosted Close Combat from Terrakion. On sun teams, most Chlorophyll sweepers, such as Venusaur, can outspeed Keldeo if the sun is shining, and OHKO him with Grass-type attacks.
  25. HardCore

    HardCore

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    256
    If you invest 76 evs into defense then you will guarantee living Adamant Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat and increase living Secret Sword/ Psycho Shock a bit too. It's better in my opinion, because when it comes down to it you only need so much Sp Def.

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