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OU Team Building

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Nova, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. gengarsnemisis

    gengarsnemisis

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    @Remedy, yeah that set is great for HO, dont know why they didnt accept it O.o.
    @LilOuOn, I don't like the "choice band tyranitar. Nothing else." part, the choice scarf keldeo set is mainly used on rain teams, so I think politoad should be listed as his best partner, as well as tornadus-t as they can take out the entire metagame together.
  2. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

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    Well, i use Scarf Keldeo in Sand teams. Just think about it. Banded T-tar kills all Keldeo's counter except Toxicroak. I agree that Politoed can be a good help, but considering that Poli is everywhere, i usually play with the opponent's rain team and take advantage of his weather.
  3. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    [​IMG]
    I can't believe no one has done this beast...

    Role: Special Sweeper, Late Game Cleaner

    What it does: What doesn't it do is the question here. Blessed with a base Speed Pokemon would give an arm and leg for, Tornadus-T has really risen to becoming the best genie out there. It can scout using U-Turn, prevent hazards from being set with Taunt, Spam mindless Hurricanes and U-Turn out if the situation is unfavorable, poke holes in the opponents team, and sweep late-game once it has outlived its counters and checks. Tornadus-T is a Pokemon that is not confined to one role. It accels in many areas whether it be cleaner, Special Attacker or Scouter.

    Good Teammates: The Frog of the Ages, Politoed. Thanks to all of that swaggy Rain and Drizzle that it brings, Torn-T is able to fire of LO STAB Hurricanes with a base 110 SpA...not too shabby.
    Torn-T really appreciates Pokemon that are able to soak in Ice, Rock and Electric type moves and that are also able to draw out Fighting Types and Grass Types. Keldeo, Jirachi, and Ferrothorn are pretty good candidates. Keldeo can run right through Special walls with Secret Sword and also benefits from Rain. Jirachi can take Ice Shards and Stone Edges and Volt Switches if it must. Jirachi can also act as a Specially Defensive Pivot setting up Rocks and U-Turning to Tornadus when Ground Type moves start appearing. Ferrothorn is able to set up hazards turning some 2HKOs into crucial OHKOs.

    What Counters it: Well...Jirachi and Heatran can be "counters" I guess...TBH they aren't really true counters as Torn-T will end up out-living them or simply hitting them with an appropriate move at the right time. Torn-T does have checks though. Scarf Thundurus-T, Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Starmie, Scizor, Mamoswine, Weavile, Scarf Latios, and Scarf Landorus are some threats that come to mind that are able to scare out or KO Tornadus-T.

    Additional Info: This Pokemon is very difficult to deal with in its ideal conditions. It is a Pokemon that is able to do massive damage output and receive little consequence if the player mispredicts.
  4. Shokwav

    Shokwav

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    Tbh Specs Jolteon is probably better than all those checks you listed, as it can just come in and scare Tornadus-t out then Volt Switch to keep momentum.
  5. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Tornadus-T has already done by ThundeBblunder on page 1.
  6. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    If someone can change the first post on this thread, please make a few changes on the Heatran analysis (on the tank section): For example, change the EV spread to 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd. This lets Heatran always outspeed Breloom instead of speed tying with him. Also, mention Hidden Power Grass and Hidden Power Electric as alternatives to Hidden Power Ice if bulky Water-types are of more concern than Dragon-types, (mention that the former defeats Rotom-W and Water/Ground-types like Gastrodon and Quagsire, and the latter defeats Gyarados, although Earth Power does more damage to Tentacruel) and that if you use Hidden Power Grass/Electric, Life Orb should be pretty much used, as Heatran no longer has the function of checking Dragons (though Air Balloon is still very helpful against opposing Heatran) and the extra power to take out bulky Water-types with the new Hidden Power is very appreciated. Flame Charge is also the best option to use alongside these Hidden Powers, since it will be able to sweep without much worrying about bulky Water-types stopping him cold. Also mention that if you use Hidden Power Grass/Electric, using max Speed (252 EVs) is strongly encouraged, especially if you use Air Balloon, as Heatran will ACTUALLY be able to outspeed opposing Heatran (or speed tie with those that don't run Hidden Power Ice), and take them out with Earth Power. Also mention that Roar is another good option in the last slot, to stop Baton Pass chains, be able to temporaly beat Volcarona (until you have a solid plan for him) and surprise Pokémon that expect to either use Heatran as setup fodder, or be able to switch in on him with impunity.
  7. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    wow...embarrasing...I swear I didn't see it though... :/
    Checked all 4 pages, thinking to myself "I mean...someone must have done this 'mon.....guess not"
  8. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Try posting this over here. This isn't the right place for this, unfortunately, but make a thread over there and people will give you a hand. Before you do that, though, be sure to add descriptions to help people understand what's going on, as well as pictures and such to make it look more appealing. Ciao!
  9. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    What To Use
    [​IMG]
    Sharpedo @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Protect

    Role: Physical Sweeper

    What It Does: Sharpedo sweeps through teams with its monster Attack stat, great coverage, STAB that's boosted by the most common weather: rain, and unmatched speed after a few speed boosts. The current metagame is incredibly frail and heavily dependant on speed, therefore anything that can hit hard and outspeed almost everything, even scarfers, after one turn of setup is likely going to be a force to be reckoned with. Sharpedo takes this to a new level, it dosen't even have to hit a setup move to boost it's speed, it just gets a boost every turn. All sharpedo needs is one Pokemon it can come in on, Protect, then outspeed and KO it at +1 (which is a huge portion of the metagame) and then it'll be at +2 (nothing in OU can naturally outspeed him at +2, other than Scarf Jolteon which is lol), because even if they switch out on the Protect, then the Protect will fail and you can just Protect again. The fact that the metagame is currently dominated by rain, which boosts Sharpedo's main STAB, boosts Sharpedo's effectiveness to staggering levels. Overall, Sharpedo can outspeed and OHKO pretty much the entire metagame without even having to take a hit in the process of gaining speed, it's like having a Swift Swim user that can still easily sweep in any weather once priority users are removed.

    Good Teammates: Both Specs Magnezone and Specs Gothitelle are great partners for Sharpedo, they both trap Sharpedo's best counter: Ferrothorn. Gothitelle is probably better though, as it synergizes better with Sharpedo and can easily remove almost all common user of priority, and seeing as priority is pretty much the only thing preventing a Sharpedo sweep on most offensive teams, removing it from the battle very important. Politoed is obviously going to help out a lot by boosting Sharpedo's main STAB with Drizzle, but it's worth noting that the two of them have bad synergy and rain is the most common weather anyway, so you can take advantage of the rain your opponent is likely to have. Hazards are going to be a huge help with wearing down Sharpedo's checks, so the likes of Deoxys-D are great partners.

    What Counters It: There are very few true counters to Sharpedo, as an Adamant, Life Orb boosted, rain boosted, STAB Waterfall is going to put a huge dent in even bulky Pokemon who resist it. A few Pokemon such as Virizion, Breloom, Toxicroak, and Keldeo all resist Sharpedo's dual STABs and can OHKO back, but that's what Zen Headbutt is for, Sharpedo's coverage is amazing. There are obviously going to be a few pokemon that can take a hit from Sharpedo then OHKO back and stop it's sweep, but they're easily worn down with a bit of help from hazards and teammates. The only true counter to Sharpedo in OU is Ferrothorn, who has a massive defensive stat, resists dual STABs, takes pitiful damage from Zen Headbutt, and it's Iron Barbs combined with Sharpedo's Life Orb recoil will rack up fast, but it's trapped by both Magnezone and Gothitelle. Sharpedo's biggest problem is priority in general, but, as mentioned in the Good Teammates section above, Gothitelle can trap most common users of priority, making it very difficult to stop Sharpedo.

    Any Additional Info: Sharpedo is fast :)
  10. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    You might want to try the RMT section for posts like this. make sure you read the rules first though, as you're missing a few things for a good RMT. this is more of a thread for posting good/bad sets for the OU metagame, not whole teams.
  11. Subject 18

    Subject 18 S H M A C K E D
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    What To Use


    [​IMG]

    Deoxys @ Fire Gem Lv. 100
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 68 HP / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Spikes
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psycho Boost
    - Stealth Rock

    Role: Hazards Settler


    What it does:
    Deoxys-D is the best choice to set up hazards. Most sets you'll run into will just get hazards and the die. With this set you outspeed CB Scizor and get off an HP Fire to OHKO. You also able to OHKO phsysically defensive Forretress and dealing 65.9 - 78.4% to standard Ferrothorn. Psycho Boost also gives you a STAB to hit Tentacruel for Super Effective damage dealing 71.42 - 84.61% to 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel.

    Good Teammates

    Gengar and Jellicent are good teammate for Deoxys-D in order to keep the hazards on the field. Others include sweepers that appreciate hazards support such as Keldeo, Tornadus-T , Lucario, Dragonite, Landorus-I, Heracross and Thundurus-T so on. Anything that can take care of Magic Bouncers such Espeon and Xatu. Weaville is another great partner for this as it can actually beat Starmie, where Gengar loses to all Psychic packing variants.

    What Counters it

    Magic Bouncers and Rapid Spinners are the main counters to Deoxys-D. Specs Zoroark can OHKO with Dark Pulse, Scarf Heracross can outspeed and OHKO with a Megahorn.

    Any Additional Info

    Have a Spin Blocker on your team to avoid having Deoxys's work gone in vain

    Credit goes Dr Ciel for giving me this set
  12. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Weaville is another great partner for this as it can actually beat Starmie, where Gengar loses to all Psychic packing variants.
  13. Subject 18

    Subject 18 S H M A C K E D
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    Thanks I'll add that in
  14. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
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    What To Use

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 32 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird

    Role: Physical Wall

    What it does:
    Ever since Skarmory's release in GSC, the metal bird has been one of the most prominent physical walls in the game. With his massive base 140 Defense stat, Skarmory can wall the numerous physical attackers in OU including but not limited to Scizor, Breloom, and Landorus-T. His Steel typing allows Skarmory to resist Dragon type attacks, putting a stop to the likes of Dragonite, Salamence, and Haxorus who could otherwise easily sweep through a team. Sturdy allows Skarmory to live any attack if he is at full health. Roost is a great move to provide instant recovery but users must beware of the fact that Roost removes Skarmory's Flying type for the remainder of the turn, making him susceptible to Ground and Fighting type attacks. Skarmory works as a great phazer with Whirlwind to negate any stat boosts and rack up entry hazard damage and the bird can set up some of his own entry hazards with Spikes. Brave Bird is a powerful STAB even with Skarmory's low Attack stat and prevents him from being completely shut down by Taunt. Skarmory is a combination of great physical wall, entry hazard setter, and phazer.


    Good Teammates:
    Special walls are the best partners for Skarmory so together they can wall most attacks the opponent tries to throw at them, the most notable being Blissey. Blissey's massive Special Defense bulk easily handles the special Fire, Electric, and Water attacks while Skarmory takes the physical Fighting attacks that would take out Blissey. Another great partner to Skarmory is Specially Defensive Heatran who is immune to Fire type attacks with his Flash Fire ability and so can switch into a predicted Fire type attack aimed at Skarmory and grab a free boost. Heatran also makes a great Stealth Rock setter to complement the Spikes Skarmory can set up. Specially Defensive Tyranitar also makes a good partner with his high Special Defense stat boosted by Sandstorm's effect. Tyraniatar handles threats to Skarmory such as Latios, Latias, and Starmie and Skarmory returns the favor by walling common threats to Tyranitar such as Scizor, Breloom, and Terrakion.


    What Counters It:
    Powerful Special Attackers are the primary counters to Skarmory, especially those that carry Fire and Electric type attacks including Latios, Heatran, and Jolteon. Due to Skarmory's low Special Defense stat and lack of investment even resisted Special attacks can break through the bird such as Tornadus-T's Hurricane. Magnezone is especially troubling as his Magnet Pull ability prevents Skarmory from switching out and he can easily take out the bird with his Electric STAB. Rain teams are troublesome some for the bird as he can not take Rain-boosted Water attacks and is severely crippled by Scald burns. Taunt users that are not bothered much by Brave Bird such as Deoxys-D can set up entry hazards in Skarmory's face and heal up using Recover. Forretress can Rapin Spin away all the Spikes Skarmory sets up while setting up his own hazards and hitting hard with Volt Switch.
  15. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
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    Ok updated OP up to Novarary's Skarmory, leaderboard included with discussion posts, if your set isn't posted then either a) I'm not sold on it's effectiveness or b) you need to add more content. You should be able to tell which one it is. If you have any individual questions about why your set wasn't accepted feel free to PM me, I'm willing to listen to any and all arguments for it. Keep up the good work guys!
  16. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Woah, I'm down 5 points? Better step it up :D
  17. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
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    What To Use

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Roar

    Role: Special Wall

    What It Does:
    Heatran is a great Special wall that can fit on almost any type of team: balanced, stall, sun, sand, hail, anything other than rain. With the above EV spread, Heatran's Special Defense hits 342 and this coupled with his Fire/Steel typing allows him to take most Special attacks. Heatran is one of the best switch ins to common powerful Specal attacks in the current metagame including the likes of Tornadus-T's Hurricane and Latios' Draco Meteor. Specifically, Heatran is likely the best check to Sun teams as he 4x resists Grass and Bug type attacks which puts a stop to common Sun sweepers such as Venusaur and Volcarona. As an added bonus, Heatran's Flash Fire ability provides him with an immunity to Fire attacks and can nab a boost to Lava Plume's damage output if he switches into a Fire type attack. Heatran makes a great Pokemon to set up Stealth Rock with his many resistances and Special bulk. He can even set up rocks in the face of bulky water types outside of Rain and he does not have to fear burns from Scald or being Toxiced. Lava Plume is a powerful STAB attack even without any Special Attack investment as Heatran has a massive base 130 Special Attack stat and has a 30% to burn which cripples the physical attackers that could threaten Specially Defensive Heatran. Protect is a good option to regain extra Leftovers recovery and also for the fact that many Heatran checks are Choiced such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Landorus so Heatran can scout what the opponent locks himself into and decide whether to switch out or stay in if the opponent has overpredicted. Roar in the last slot removes stat boosters and racks up entry hazard damage.


    Good Teammates:
    Celebi is a great partner for Heatran as Celebi resists the Water, Ground, and Fighting type attacks that threaten Heatran while Heatran resists Flying, Bug, and is immune to Fire, all of which are super effective against Celebi. Celebi checks many of the Pokemon on rain teams that Heatran has trouble with such as Politoed, Rotom-W, Tentacruel, and Gastrodon. Skarmory is also a solid partner for Heatran with his massive Physical bulk and ability to set up Spikes which racks up entry hazard damage alongside Heatran's Stealth Rock. Latios makes a good offensive partner for Heatran as Heatran resists all of Latios' weakness and Latios can return the favor by being able to outspeed and dispatch of threats to Heatran such as Keldeo, Terrakion, and Landorus. This Heatran set also can not touch opposing Heatran as well as Blissey so a powerful Fighting type such as Terrakion makes a good partner. Lastly, Ninetales makes a decent teammate with Drought being able to weaken Water type attacks as well as boosting Lava Plume's damage output.


    What Counters It:
    The best offensive counters to Heatran are physical attackers that pack a super effective attack to hit Heatran. These include Pokemon such as Terrakion, Mamoswine, and Breloom who can all take out Heatran if they avoid being burned by Lava Plume. Rain teams with the likes of Politoed and Keldeo that fire off Rain boosted Water attacks can also take out Heatran and can prove especially troublesome if the Heatran user does not have a method of changing the weather. Defensive counters to Heatran include Jellicent and Blissey. Both have great Special Defense bulk, do not fear burns from Lava Plume, and can wear Heatran down with Scald and Seismic Toss respectively. Lastly, the above Heatran set can not touch opposing Heatran and opposing Heatran can hit it with Earth Power.
  18. Subject 18

    Subject 18 S H M A C K E D
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    What to use:

    [​IMG]

    Heracross @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie/Guts
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Sleep Talk/Night Slash

    Role:Physical Sweeper/ Revenge Killer

    What it does: Though Heracross is UU it is still a potent sweeper in OU, base 125 Attack combined with helpful typing and access to two ridiculously powerful STAB (Close Combat and Megahorn) moves has always made Heracross hard to handle. With a couple Moxie boosts not many Pokes are going to appreciate taking a hit from it. Sleep Talk may be an odd move to have but this can absorb Spores from Breloom and still be a use to your team with Sleep Talk. Guts makes Heracross a better sleep absorber than Moxie. Gut also gives you the ability to take burns without being completely crippled and still be effective where Moxie couldn't be

    Good Teammates: Heatran makes an exceptionally good teammate for Heracross as they cover each other's weaknesses well. Heatran can take fire and flying moves that Heracross despises. Jirachi, Bronzong and Specially Defensize Zapdos make good partners since they pose a good way to deal with Tornadus-T. Hazards are going to be very helpful towards being able to pull off a sweep with Heracross so Deoxys is a good partners to have.

    What Counters It: Flying Types notably Tornadus-T, Gliscor and Skarmory can trouble it if it is Choice-locked into the wrong move. In addition to a handy Flying typing, Landorus-T even has Intimidate to survive multiple hits. Jellicent is an issue if you are not running Night Slash. Faster Scarfers are also an issue due to Heracross pretty low speed.

    Any Additional Info: Jolly is preferred over Adamant since you outspeed more threats and Moxie compensates for not having Adamant
  19. frogoholic101

    frogoholic101

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    BlackRussian, could you slash Guts as an ability on the above set? Guts is very helpful in many situations and you even get an attack boost when you're asleep, making its role as a sleep absorber more effective. Unlike Moxie Heracross, it can still sweep once burned and the attack boost really helps it out. I understand the benefits of Moxie but Heracross isn't going to get more than one boost before something faster switches in and ruins it day. First and foremost Scarf Heracross is a revenge killer, not a physical sweeper, and Guts really helps it in this regard.

    Both have their merits but Guts is a great ability and it should be featured and explained on the set.
  20. isr

    isr

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    Rewrote the Ditto's review, hope it's acceptable now. If anyone have a comment, please go ahead. :)
  21. Subject 18

    Subject 18 S H M A C K E D
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    I completely agree with you on Guts I just forgot to add that in since I just wrote down the specific set I've been using recently. Moxie Heracross can still function as a sweeper if you kill faster scarfers before giving the chance to do so. You really have to play this one right to be able to get 2 or more Moxie boost only when you have killed faster scarfers.

    I will add in info on Guts.
  22. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    What to use

    [​IMG]

    Xatu (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - U-turn
    - Toxic / Thunder Wave
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave / Psychic / Night Shade


    Role: Support

    What it does:
    Ah, Xatu... Peharps the best counter to Deoxys-D, and the best way to "get rid" of hazards, without actually having to use Rapid Spin and lose your momentum. Not to mention that Magic Bounce cannot be blocked by those nasty Ghost-types. What Xatu has over its competitor, Espeon, is a better physical bulk (and most hazard setters attack on the physical side), Heat Wave (so it doesn't have to use the weaker Hidden Power Fire) and reliable recovery!

    U-Turn is there, as always, to ease prediction, and gain momentum. Toxic is the primary option because almost all things that Toxic cannot touch are defeated by Heat Wave or Psychic. With Toxic, Xatu is able to stall out some defensive threats, and thus, Xatu becomes a valuable stallbreaker. For example, it can stall out Blissey and Hippowdon! However, Thunder Wave can be used instead, as there are many offensive things that love switching-in on Xatu otherwise, such as rain sweepers and Rock-types. The best way to deal with them is punishing them with paralysis. Roost is one of things that differentiate Xatu from Espeon. While Espeon will have to be wary of taking repeated hits, Xatu doesn't have this problem, and is in fact, very durable. Xatu can even remove its weakness to Ice, Rock and Electric, which helps against walls that use Rock- or Ice-type attacks.

    The last move comes to preference. Heat Wave is the recommended option because most hazard setters are weak to it. You don't want Ferrothorn either stalling out Xatu, or coming latter to setup hazards, so you must dispose of him as quickly as possible, after reflecting its hazards. On rain teams, unfortunately Heat Wave is weakened. Psychic is an option because it has STAB, is useful against Fighting-types (though be wary that many Fighting-types can still defeat Xatu regardless), and more importantly, defeats Tentacruel. Tentacruel is a hazard setter that gives problems to Xatu that choose Heat Wave because it resists Heat Wave and is immune to Toxic, and can take Xatu down with repeated Scalds. Night Shade doesn't quickly dispose of threats like Heat Wave or Psychic would do, but it has consistent damage, and is harder to stall out than a resisted Heat Wave/Psychic.

    Good teammates:

    Apart from anything that has problems with hazards, there are some good specific partners for Xatu. Ninetales stands out because the sun that it summons powers up Heat Wave, and Ninetales itself has problems with hazards and the pink blobs, so it appreciates Xatu as a partner. Anything that can beat Heatran and Rock-type Pokémon is appreciated because Rock-type hazard setters can defeat Xatu with their super-effective STAB moves. For this reason, Dugtrio, Scizor, or Fighting-types like Terrakion or Breloom, are good partners. Landorus-T is also another Pokémon that can beat Xatu and setup hazards, but sadly, Dugtrio and Fighting-types cannot solve this. For this reason, Water-types (yes, Water-types, that pack Ice-type moves), and Mamoswine make for good partners.

    What counters it:
    There are some things that setup hazards, that can easily beat Xatu. With good prediction, they can take him down and setup hazards with impunity. Those are Rock-types like Tyranitar and Terrakion, as well as Heatran, that is immune to Toxic and Heat Wave, and can take Xatu down with Fire Blast. Fortunately, most of those are weak to Dugtrio, so it's easy to U-Turn them out to a Dugtrio. Tentacruel gives problems to Xatu, as it is immune to Toxic, resists Heat Wave, and can take Xatu down with repeated rain-boosted Scalds, and as Scald is an attacking move, Xatu cannot avoid being burned by it. However, Tentacruel has to watch out for Psychic. Finally, anything that doesn't mind either Toxic or Heat Wave and packs a super-effective move or a strong special neutral STAB move can be considered a counter to Xatu. This includes Rotom-H, Choice Rotom-W, Gengar, and Keldeo.
  23. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
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    Scarf Moxie Heracross seems to be a solid set in OU, however, could you please elaborate a little over why you would choose it over Scarf Moxie Salamence or even possibly Scarf Moxie Gyarados. Scarf Salamence would make a much better late game cleaner in my eyes due to a higher attack stat, a more easily spammed STAB attack in Outrage that has much fewer resists than Heracross' STABs, and a higher speed stat that is crucial in speed tying with other Scarf base 100s. Salamence can also muscle through common physical walls such as Gliscor and Landorus-T if he has obtained enough Moxie boosts, something which Heracross can not really do. Scarf Gyarados would be a lesser option but it still offers some advantages over Heracross in that Water/Flying provide better neutral coverage than Fighting/Bug, Gyarados' Water type STAb can be boosted in Rain which is the most common weather, and Gyarados has a resistance to Bullet Punch. I'm not challenging the usability of Scarf Moxie Heracross as I have seen its success before on the ladder, I would just like you to talk a little about its benefits over other Scarf Moxie cleaners.
  24. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Gyarados relies on Rain to have a boosted Water STAB that can clean late-game, even with Moxie. Also, while Water/Flying provides fantastic neutral coverage, the reality is that Gyarados cannot abuse this, as the only Flying-type move that it gets is Bounce, which definitively doesn't fit on a Choice set, and can be too easily abused by the opponent. So, it has to rely on other moves that make Grass-, and Steel-types, especially Ferrothorn, excellent counters to him. As for Salamence, Heracross lacks a weakness to Stealth Rock. Also, one could argue that while Close Combat is resisted by more Pokémon, it is also strong against more Pokémon than Outrage, as Close Combat offers better super-effective coverage. In fact, Heracross doesn't have problems with most Steel-types, except maybe Skarmory and Forretress, and Heracross doesn't have to rely on coverage moves to get rid of them. It's Fighting STAB easily do the job. Also, Heracross is not weak to any priority move. It even resists Mach Punch and Sucker Punch.
  25. Subject 18

    Subject 18 S H M A C K E D
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    That's was pretty much my thinking. Mainly for me was the weakness to Rocks I prefered having a resistance instead of the almost being required to have a Spinner on the team. I could add this in if need be @Novaray.

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