1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

OU Team Building

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Nova, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    660
    To me, the hipster Terrakion-hater, X-Scissor is there to keep Claydol from being a flawless counter to Terrakion: 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Claydol: 182-216 (56.17 - 66.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Claydol would otherwise eat Terrakion for breakfast, since Terrakion's next most damaging spam-move Close Combat does whopping 31.48 - 37.03% to Claydol.

    But who cares about Claydol?? It's apparently not good enough for OU to deserve an analysis according to QC. Just like every other Terrakion counter coughconspiracytheorycough.

    Still use it, but whatevs...
  2. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,521
    I'll update this thread as soon as I can, if I do not include your set in the OP it means that I'm not completely sold on if it should be included in the category you specified (Use/Do Not Use) or there is a slight change that would allow it to better fall under a certain category. If this happens with your set, just shoot me a PM and we can go over it.

    Just chipping in on Choice Band Terrakion. I personally prefer the moveset Close Combat / Stone Edge / Earthquake / Quick Attack and I have also ran it with Rock Slide over Earthquake. I think Earthquake is a very useful option to hit Tentacruel for Super Effective damage while not having to risk an 80% Stone Edge and also lets it destroy Toxicroak, who is becoming more popular on teams. Rock Slide is nice when you don't want to rick that Stone Edge and I've used it more on teams that are either a bit Volcarona weak or already have solid answers to Tentacruel and Toxicroak.
  3. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,022
    I've always used Earthquake, since it is a much more reliable way of beating Jirachi. Though, Band Terrak is powerrful enough to 2HKO Toxicroak with CC and SE KO's Tenta so Jirachi is the only reason (still, a good one nonetheless)

    Use:

    [​IMG]
    Ditto @ Choice Scarf
    Imposter
    Sassy / 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    2 Spe IVs
    ~Transform


    Role: Revenge killer

    What It Does:
    Ditto is a unique pokemon because of its ability, imposter. By automatically changing into your opponent's exact pokemon, many different things can be done with this flexible little guy. One of the main things this set is known for is its ability to revenge kill opponents. Almost every single offensive pokemon in the tier has one move in their movepool that hits themselves neutrally- and many can hit themselves super effectively. Since imposter copies stats and stat boosts, Ditto will always match the base speed of the opponent. When given a Scarf, it will always outspeed, as long as the opponent doesn't also carry a scarf. (in which case it will always be outsped because ivs are not copied) This can be used to your advantage when handling opposing set up sweepers such as Dragon Dance Salamence. You can 'let' an unwary opponent set up to +6, then sack a teammate to bring Ditto in safely and then it's pretty much gg unless your opponent has priority. Another example where Ditto can be used effectively is when facing Sun / Sand double speed sweepers like Growth Venasaur, whose boosts you can steal and utilize to revenge kill. Ditto can revenge nearly anything that isn't scarfed and doesn't resist all of its own attacks, making it the perfect revenge killer for hyper offense teams due to its reliability.

    Ditto can also be used as a scout, but this is a role it does not do as well. When facing mixed sweepers like Hydriegon, you can predict a Fire Blast, switch to Ditto to absorb the resisted hit, and then KO back. Or, you can switch into a Heatran to absorb incoming Fire Blasts; Thundurus-T's to heal Ditto up; or Jellicent to Taunt and heal up. Ditto's imposter works very similar to Trace in this way (in fact, it's pretty much the same thing, just imposter comes with more bonuses) Another cool way to use Ditto is as a support pokemon. Against Deoxys-D spikestacking offensive teams, it can copy Deoxys and Taunt it, or set its own hazards against the opponent. Speaking of hazards, you can also use Ditto as a spinner- if your team doesn't have one. You can copy an opponent's Donphan and spin away hazards even if you don't carry one yourself, and this is a neat trick I like to use myself. If an opponent's Blissey is spreading Toxic around your team, you can copy it and 'steal' its heal bell to cure yourself.

    Ditto has tons of potential, since it's like adding any of your opponent's pokemon onto your own team. It can be used to revenge, scout, or even support your team.

    Good Teammates:
    Since Ditto is commonly used as a revenge killer, anything that Ditto can not revenge is a threat to it. This comprises of bulkier pokemon, such as Conkeldurr or Reuniclus, who rely on bulk instead of speed to sweep, and can thwart Ditto's low HP stat. Reuniclus is especially a threat because of Trick Room- where it renders Ditto's scarf useless. Teammates like Scizor or Alakazam who can use sheer force and SE coverage to quickly KO those threats work well with Ditto. Since many times those pokemon are slow, Breloom can be used to shut them down. Ditto also has problems with Calm Minders, Quiver Dancers, and Bulk Uppers- as all of those pokemon boost their defenses as well, making it harder and often impossible to truly revenge kill. Terrakion is a great partner as its physical attacks can beat common QD'ers and CM'ers. Keldeo-R is also a great partner as it beats Volc, can use Secret Sword to beat CM'ers, and can use HPump to beat BU'ers. Pokemon that can hit hard in both ends of the spectrum make great partners.

    What Counters It:
    Again, anything Ditto can't revenge kill. Defensive pokemon top the list, as many can't really hurt themselves- Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory are good examples. Bulky attackers like QD Volcarona can survive two of Ditto's Fiery Dances and continue to set up. The fact that Ditto must be scarfed to function also means that it itself is quite easily revenge killed if it hasn't grabbed enough opponent boosts. Pokemon with priority and better bulk can beat Ditto too, forcing Ditto to use weaker attacks that can be sponged and responded to.

    Any Additional Info:
    IVs and HP are not copied. Ditto's poor HP Stat is one of the main reasons why it is not used as much, as it often can hit hard but with frail defenses. This makes Ditto unsuited for a defensive role. To try to mitigate this problem somehwat, 253 HP evs are invested in HP (the rest don't really matter) The ivs give you Hidden Power Ice- so should your opponent have any HP in their arsenal, it will show up in your set as HP Ice. Minimum Spe ivs let you lose any speed ties with opposing Ditto, while rare, can be a life saver. Read the analysis if you want a better explanation.
  4. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    What to use:

    [​IMG]

    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream / Sand Force
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Stealth Rock / Whirlwind
    - Ice Fang / Whirlwind

    Role: Physical Wall

    What it does: Let's talk about what Hippowdon has over other physical walls. The first thing that people think when thinking of a physical wall is Skarmory. However, Hippowdon is just as good. It actually has more physical bulk than Skarmory, and only faces competition because the latter is a Steel-type and has Spikes. But Hippowdon's higher physical bulk allows him to counter things that Skarmory cannot, such as Terrakion. Hippowdon also faces competition from Landorus-T. However, it has two things that separate him from the flying tiger. Landorus-T whishes that it had reliable recovery, and acess to phazing. These are things that Hippowdon does have, and thus, it is not outclassed.

    Well, let's talk now about Hippowdon itself. Apart from the high defenses, Hippowdon has a good Attack, which means that it hit rather hard for a defensive Pokémon. Thus, it is not setup bait unless the opponent is immune or resistant to the attacks that Hippowdon may use.

    Earthquake is the main STAB move. With this move, Hippowdon does not become setup bait for things with Taunt. It also lets him OHKO things like Terrakion, which makes him one of Terrakion's best counters. Slack Off is a reliable recovery move that extends Hippowdon's longevity, letting him survive to more physical assaults. This separates him from Landorus-T, which will fall to repeated hits. Stealth Rock is a move that Hippowdon can reliably setup on the face of many physical threats. Ice Fang has great coverage with Earthquake, and lets it hit Dragon-types that are immune to Earthquake, such as Dragonite. Hippowdon is one of the few non-Steel-types capable of surviving boosted Dragon-type attacks, and with Ice Fang, it can survive one Outrage and OHKO back. Either Stealth Rock or Ice Fang can be replaced by Whirlwind. Whirlwind is a great move to phaze problematic threats that you cannot defeat with either Earthquake or Ice Fang. It also breaks Baton Pass chains without being disrupted by Mr. Mime, and surprises opponents expecting to use Hippowdon as setup fodder.

    The ability is up to you. Hippowdon has Sand Stream, and it is a reliable sandstorm inducer instead of Tyranitar, thanks to its greater survivability in general. It is also the only weather inducer with reliable recovery, thus, Hippowdon is the weather inducer that tends to survive more. Keep in mind that Hippowdon lacks the same Special Defense and the same offensive prowess of Tyranitar, and thus, do not expect him to defeat the same threats as Tyranitar, or to not be setup fodder for certain Pokémon. If you have the intention of using Hippowdon has a physical wall on a rain or sun team, don't worry: Hippowdon can use Sand Force, which keeps him from interfering with the weather. Although it seems like at this point you would be better off with Landorus-T, remember that Landorus-T lacks phazing and reliable recovery. Thus, do not shy away from trying to use Hippowdon.

    Good Teammates: Skarmory is actually a great partner for Hippowdon. Despite Hippowdon's great physical bulk, it will fall to repeated Dragon-type assaults. This is not to mention that Hippowdon cannot counter certain physically based threats, like Breloom or Gyarados. Due to its Steel/Flying typing, Skarmory can wall those threats, and can phaze them. It also has access to Spikes, which complets with Hippowdon's Stealth Rock to rack up more hazard damage. In return, Hippowdon protects Skarmory from threats like Terrakion, non-CB Victini, and the rare Gravity Landorus. Thus, despite seemingly redundant, Skarmory is a great physical wall to use alongside physically defensive Hippowdon: thogether, they will certainly protect you from almost any physical sweeper.

    Apart from Skarmory, there are other walls that can be used as partners. Specially defensive Celebi is one of them. Celebi protects Hippowdon from specially based threats like Sheer Force Landorus. SpD Jirachi also does the same and has access to Wish to support the rest of the team. Chansey and Blissey are other special walls that can be paired with Hippowdon. The problem is that both are prone to become setup bait unlike Celebi and Jirachi. They also have problems walling certain physically based threats, as well as Keldeo, the only special attacker that can entirely bypass them. A spinner is recommended to get rid of Toxic Spikes, which will render Hippowdon useless. Sadly, the only spinner that tends to be good alongside Hippowdon, is Tentacruel. Xatu can also be used. It is not a spinner but can reflect hazards with its ability Magic Bounce.

    On the topic of sandstorm partners, Terrakion is one of the best, as it benefits from the sand to have a 50% boost to its Special Defense. Hippowdon can take assaults from certain things that trouble Terrakion, like Scizor, but be very wary of offensive Swords Dance sets from Scizor, which can 2HKO Hippowdon without a second thougth. Landorus is another potential partner, though Terrakion has better synergy with Hippowdon. Stoutland also benefits from the sand to become a great revenge killer and late-game sweeper under sand. In fact, the combination of Hippowdon and Stoutland is very common. Sadly, these are the only potential partners, as there are almost no Pokémon capable of abusing the sandstorm.

    What Counters It: Xatu is the best counter to Hippowdon, as it is immune to Earthquake, doesn't care much about Ice Fang, reflects both Stealth Rock and Whirlwind, and can use Toxic to put a time on Hippowdon's like as Toxic cannot be stalled out by Slack Off. Anything that is immune or resistant to Earthquake and packs a powerful special attack is a counter to Hippowdon. Latios, Thundurus-T (with Grass Knot), and offensive Celebi are some examples. Hippowdon has a bad special bulk, thus, it will fall to most powerful special hits, even if they aren's super-effective. Hippowdon also fears Kyurem and bulky-Water types, all whick will force him out as they pack super-effective attacks against Hippowdon. There are also some physical attackers that even Hippowdon fears. These include Breloom and Gyarados, as they have super-effective attacks against Hippowdon. Lastly, anything immune to Earthquake and that packs Taunt is capable of stopping Hippowdon on its tracks. Air Balloon Heatran is an example. However, Balloon Heatran must avoid Ice Fang, as it will pop the ballon, and Hippowdon can then OHKO back with Earthquake.
  5. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    386
    tornadus-t needs to be removed from the "what to use" section in the op. and also, it lists that alakazam could be used as a "tank"... alakazam is the farthest thing from a tank. i think you made a mistake though, so its not a big deal.
  6. Zidiane

    Zidiane

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Hey, I want to use gimmicky teams. I like the idea of using a generation team, composed of only pokemon from a certain Generation. Right now I'm fumbling around with a Gen 1 team of Alakazam, Venusaur, Gengar, Dragonite, Dugtrio, and Vaporeon. I'm using some builds I found on this site, but I'm sure it's nowhere near efficient. Is it possible to use an effective Generation team? If so, would anyone be willing to help me out?
  7. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    311
    Most people will just tell you it lacks of reliable recovery and will be worn down quite easily. You could say as much for Golemastoc.
  8. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,521
    I talked with Hunt last night and we determined that because this project is point-based and a winner needs to be crowned eventually, we agreed to set the project to end on February 24th.

    Sorry for not updating this yet, I've been bogged down with schoolwork and I'll try to get to this asap.
  9. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    What to use:

    [​IMG]

    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    Role: Physical Wall

    What It Does: This gliscor is designed to wall phisical stuff and at the same time annoy the opponent with toxic. Thanks to his typing, its very usefull to switch in against a lot of things, including the majority of fighting types, ground types, rock types and even dragons sometimes. What you should do is try to get a sub up in first place, against things you know will either switch out or cant break your sub, so that you can start his annoy strategy. After you have the sub up, you can toxic the opponent while they break your sub, then protect to accumulate residual damage, then sub again if you are faster. Repeat since your opponent is death. This is what will happen the most of the time if you can get a sub up against offensive teams, that often doesnt carry real counters for it. Protect helps in various way, not only it accumulates damage from toxic, but also lets poison heal recover 25% of your health in two turns as well as checking the omnipresent choiced pokemon in the metagame. Gliscor can also ppstall some stuff like hydro pump from rotom-w, assuming you are faster.
    Earthquake its a nice stab that gliscor can use to hit stuff like Heatran, Jirachi, Lucario, Terrakion and so on. Its not powerfull, but its not weak either. The evs spread here is to outspeed some things while still maintaining a good bulk; 282 speed lets you outspeed Lucario, Heatran, Landorus-t, and anything below them. The speed its important for this set, otherwhise you may face some Ice punch Lucario that kills you or hp ice Landorus-t, which can you cause you some trouble.

    Good Teammates: Gliscor can be supported with some different things. Tyranitar should be considered, just to get the sand up so that gliscor can stall out things easier. Its also cool because without the rain up scald users wont do much, and gliscor will probably have a chance to toxic them and stall them out. Then everything that can switch in on special attacks are a good partner. In particular water types such as tentacruel can be very usefull, since tentacruel doesnt mind much water and ice attacks, and it has toxic spikes to make gliscor's work even easier. Since gliscor often find his place in defensive teams, hazard are also helpfull. Stealth rock, spikes, toxic spikes all do a great job to accumulate residual damages, because gliscor often causes many switchs. Jellicent can also be considered to pair it with gliscor, since it can effectively spin block hazards as well as taking nothing from water and ice attacks.

    What Counters It: This gliscor has some true counter. Skarmory, bronzong, xatu, gengar all fears nothing by this set, being immune to earthquake and toxic. Natural cure users such as starmie and celebi also can switch in on it, break the sub and just switch in case they are toxiced. Faster pokemon with substitute and immunity to earthquake can also setup on it, like latios. Air baloon pokemon such as heatran can also switch in on.

    Any Additional Info: i highly suggest to put more speed than the standard set on smogon :3
  10. Bluwing

    Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    I think you should mention Abomasnow as partner as Hail won't matter for Gliscor anyway due to Poison Heal, also Abomasnow can beat water types that can annoy Gliscor. Hail damage also does more damage on pokemon in OU than Sand does which means that Glisor can stall Ground, Rock and Steel types easier as this set is mainly for stalling, and the Hail damage Abomasnow provides is highly appreciated for doing this.
  11. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    I would mention Ditto great alongside any weatherless team and / or DeoD team because Ditto is great for fucking up suns' chlorophyl sweepers that are huge threats to DeoD otherwise, as well as making sure that nothing safely sets up on DeoD.
  12. fire r a g e

    fire r a g e

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    The SpD increase only applies to part Rock type Pokemon.
  13. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    What to use:

    [​IMG]
    Volcarona (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Quiver Dance
    - Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power [Ground]

    Role: Special Sweeper

    What it does: Volcarona is one of the best Special Sweeper in the game thanks to its good statistics of Spe and SAtk, thanks to Quiver Dance, an incredible move to boost SAtk, Spe and SDef to make Volcarona much harder to revenge-kill after a Quiver Dance and thanks to its coverage moves called Fire Blast, Bug Buzz, Giga Drain and Hurricane. Fire Blast is generally the best fire-type STAB because it's just stronger than Fiery Dance but it has a very good secondary effect of potentially raising Special Attack and it has more accuracy so if you hate miss, Fiery Dance is the best option for Volcarona. The Hidden Power can change according the team where Volcarona is used, if the team has problem with Heatran, Hidden Power Ground is the best choice, if the team has problem with dragon-types in general, probably Hidden Power Ice is the best option and so on. Bug Buzz is always used on Volcarona and it hit hard all the pokemon that don't resist it. Bug Buzz generally, is useful to hit bulky water-types like Politoed which resist to the fire-type STAB.

    Good Teammates: Volcarona must be used always with a Rapid Spin user like Donphan and Forretress or with a Magic Bounce user like Xatu because it takes 50% of HP from Stealth Rock and that's really bad, but luckily, a Rapid Spin or a Magic Bounce user can help Volcarona a lot. Volcarona is also good when sun is up because its fire-type STAB is boosted and because the water-type move like Rotom-W's Hydro Pump can't damage hard it so when you use Volcarona, you should considerate Ninetales because with Drought, it's a good teamate for Volcarona.

    What Counters It: Chansey and Blissey can wall any set with their high Special Defense, also Heatran is a good counter if Volcarona lacks Hidden Power Ground and if it hasn't Hidden Power Ice, dragon-types like Dragonite can stop Volcarona easily. Other nice counter of Volcarona can be Gyarados if it lacks Hidden Power Rock and Terrakion if it hasn't Giga Drain or Hidden Power Ground, however, if sandstorm is up, Terrakion can block easily any set of Volcarona. Other than that, the main problem of Volcarona is the Stealth Rock because it takes 50% of HP from it, so don't use Volcarona without a Rapid Spin or a Magic Bounce user. Lastly, another problem for the moth can be the rain which weakens type-fire STAB's fire power. Also if rain is up, Hurricane user like Tornadus and Dragonite can stop Volcarona if it hasn't Hidden Power Ice.

    Any Additional Info: Giga Drain and Hurricane are a nice choice but Hurricane can used only on Drizzle Volcarona because if sun is up, it has an accuracy of 50% which is really bad. As last thing, if you hate recoil from Life Orb, also Leftovers is a good choice with Volcarona's good staying power. A EV spread of 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 Spe would give Volcarona more staying power to setup more easily.
  14. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    I meant without rain up.
    Ill fix it.
  15. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    What to use:

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo (Keldeo-R) @ Leftovers / Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ghost] / Hidden Power [Ice]

    Role: Special Sweeper

    What it does: Calm Mind Keldeo is a strong Special Sweeper and its goal is use Calm Mind and then sweep opponent's team and thanks to its very good statistics of Spe and SAtk, Keldeo can do its job very well. Hydro Pump is a very strong, especially if it's raining but Surf is a good option too because it doesn't miss since it has 100% of accuracy, speaking about Sacret Sword, it's a nice move on Keldeo because it destroys the standard special walls such as Chansey and Blissey which can tank the Hydro Pumps easily. Hidden Power Ghost hits Jellicent which can counter very well Keldeo if it lacks Hidden Power Ghost, otherwise Hidden Power Ice destroys dragon-types Dragonite and like Hidden Power Ghost, it hits the Lati Twins which can give some problem to Keldeo since they resist to Keldeo's STAB.

    Good Teammates: Probably Tyranitar and Scizor are the best teamate for Calm Mind Keldeo since they can pursuit Celebi and the Lati Twins which are the most common Keldeo's counters. Another good teammate for Keldeo is Politoed because it has Drizzle which enhances Keldeo's water-type STAB.

    What Counters It: Slowking is the best counter of Keldeo since it resists to both Keldeo's STAB, it has a very good special defense and since it has Psyshock to destroy Keldeo. Other good counters of Keldeo are Jellicent, which is immune to both Keldeo's STAB and which doesn't take much damages from Hidden Power Ghost because it has a very good special defense and because it Toxic to badly poison Keldeo, Special Defensive Celebi, which resists to Keldeo's STAB and hits hard with Giga Drain, Leaf Storm and Psychic, Amoonguss, which has a great special defensive and resist to Hydro Pump and Sacret Sword and Lati Wins which can tank Keldeo's hits and then smash it with Psyshock.

    Any Additional Info: Substitute is a nice option because it allows Keldeo to setup more easily. Also Hidden Power Electric is good since it hits bulky water-type such as Jellicent and since it hits Gyarados which can give Keldeo some problem with Bounce but I don't suggest HP Electric at all because the other Hidden Power are useful in more chances than HP Electric. Also, HP Bug and HP Flying since the first destroys Celebi and the second smashs Toxicroak, which is immune to the water-type STAB and which resists to Secret Sword. Icy Wind is a nice choice too since it allows to have another Hidden Power coverage.
  16. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast LOL STAFF FAG
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,425
    Alexander, I'd slash Lum Berry on Volcarona and mention that it's great with HP Ground - it can essentially use any Heatran without Roar as setup fodder that way.
  17. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    @ Alexander's Keldeo

    On Keldeo I'd slash CM with any attack and the HP coverages with both HP Flying and HP Bug. Flying hits Toxicroak (as well as opposing Keldeo) while Bug beats Celebi. Slash Icy Wind since anyone using another HP coverage and does'nt want CM should be using it. Good job otherwise!

    @ Alexander's Volcarona

    Slash one of its HP coverges for both Giga Drain and Hurricane, or mention it in the AC. Mention alternative EV spreads in the AC as well such as bulkier variants imo
  18. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Speaking about Keldeo, I mentioned both HP Flying and HP Bug in the AC because they aren't very common in the current bw ou metagame imo, I mentioned Icy Wind too. Otherwise speaking about Volcarona, Giga Drain and Hurricane were both in the AC and I added a bulky EV spread as well in the AC. Thanks!
  19. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    What to use:
    [​IMG]
    Azumarill (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Huge Power
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Aqua Jet
    - Waterfall
    - Ice Punch / Return
    - Superpower

    Role: Revenge-killler / Physical Sweeper

    What it does: With Huge Power and Choice Band, Azumarill can hit really hard, especially if rain is up, which boosted its Water-type moves. Aqua Jet can revenge-kill a lots of pokèmon such as Volcarona, Terrakion, Landorus, Gengar and Mienshao. Ice Punch allows to destroy Grass-types and Dragon-types such as Dragonite and Salamence, these types can both switch into an Aqua Jet but with some predictions they can be handled by Ice Punch. Superpower destroys Ferrothorn, which resists both Aqua Jet and Ice Punch and hits hard Rotom-W, another good switch into Aqua Jet and Ice Punch. Return is a good choice too because it's a great move due its high Base Power and because it's a good coverage move too. Finally, Waterfall is the most powerful move that Azumarill can use and it's useful to hit hard the switch ins, and in general to do a lots of damages. It's good when we are unsure of what is switching in too, because it has a really high fire power and it can hit hard everything which doesn't resist it.

    Good Teammates: Politoed obviously, because its rain helps a lot Azumarill since it boosted its Water-type moves. Another great partner for Azumarill is Tentacruel, which works well under rain too and which can Toxic Jellicent that is the best counter for Azumarill. Also, Tentacruel can spin entry hazards with Rapid Spin which give Azumarill some problem, especially the Toxic Spikes. Dugtrio works well with Azumarill too since it traps and kills with Arena Trap Tyranitar and Ninetales which can be annoying for Azumarill because they change the weather with their Trait.

    What Counters It: Jellicent completely walls Azumarill since it's immune to Waterfall, Aqua Jet, Superpower and Return and since Ice Punch can't do anything on it. Other good counters for Azumarill are Ferrothorn, which only fears Superpower, Rotom-W, Slowbro and Skarmory. Toxic Spikes and entry hazards in general are a problem for Azumarill because it's generally forced to switch a lot due to Choice band so play it with a Rapid Spin user is a really good option.

    Any Additional Info: Toxic is a nice choice to surprise Jellicent and Slowbro and Double Edge is a good option too if you need more fire power but the recoil is usually very annoying.
  20. HardCore

    HardCore

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    256
    What to use:
    [​IMG]

    Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Bug]

    Role: Wall Breaker/ Special Sweeper

    What it does: With Keldeo's powerful stabs ( Hydro Pump and Secret Sword) it has immense sweeping potential with Choice Specs to not only sweep, which a scarf or LO set can do, but it can wall break without losing 10% hp per attack. Specs Keldeo is so powerful that it doesn't need Hidden power Ice, but instead can run Icy Wind so it will have Bug coverage for OHKOing Celebi on the switch, which is to be expected in most cases. Without one of Keldeo's top counters in the way Keldeo can switch in an out for free one - two hit KOs with impunity. Icy Wind also makes it easier for Pokemon like Latias, Latios, and Celebi to be trapped, because now they won't be outspeeding your Pursuit Tyranitar for sure. Specs Keldeo has already been seen in OU, but most still don't expect anything more than a 30-50% damaging hidden power from Keldeo. The biggest difference in this set is the power that allows you to OHKO Celebi and have nearly free reign without setting up.

    Good Teammates: Politoed of course, because the rain boost will allow Specs Keldeo to OHKO and 2HKO Pokemon like Rotom, Jirachi, Virizion, other Keldeos, and other simple switches that usually resist Hydro Pump enough to get the job done. With entry hazards even TentaCruel has a hard time with these Hydro Pumps, so a standard Hazard setting Ferrothorn is a great partner as well to cripple the Opponents team with Stealth Rocks, Spikes, and Iron Barb damage. Once Keldeo wall breaks it's always good to have a good Scarfer like Latios, Salamence, Gyarados (in rain), Jirachi, or Landorus to handle anything that is faster than Timid Keldeo's 346 maxed out speed. Keldeo can't do all of the wall breaking however especially if Tentacruel is able to spin, so if you have a ghost like Jellicent, Gengar, or Sp Def Sableye on your team or a good counter to popular rain Pokemon like Rotom-W, Gastrodon, or Celebi (Perish song)on your team then you are supporting Keldeo well and crushing your opponents team.

    What Counters It: Tentacruel is a great counter to Keldeo if you are not lucky with enough hazards to get the 2HKO. In rain Tentacruel has the potential to PP stall Hydro Pump. This set can't do much to Jellicent at all, so it's a counter, but Jellicent will probably only 3-4HKO Keldeo so it's not a check to Keldeo unless this is a last two Pokemon situation. If the opponent suspects the choice item any protected or subbed Pokemon allow the opponent to easily see what move you will use obviously. Celebi is still a top counter to Keldeo if you don't skillfully use HP Bug, but generally it isn't expected as previously stated. Toxicroak takes a lot of damage from Specs Secret Sword, but bulky rain variants might spam drain punch enough to avoid the 2HKO. Bulky Latias isn't 2HKOed by Icy Wind or Hidden Power Bug, or she can out speed and potentially OHKO Keldeo with Psychic moves or an Offensive Draco Meteor.

    Any Additional Info: Trappers such as Dugtrio and Gothitelle can help pave the way for Keldeo to do much more devastating damage to the opponents team. It's all about your team. Yes, this set does work on non rain teams, bulky offensive teams, balanced, and offensive of course. Try baiting the Celebi with using Hydro Pump or another move before revealing HP Bug.
  21. lousy918

    lousy918

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    325
    lol under physical attacker:
    conkelhurrdurr doesn't get magic guard
  22. ReshiRampage

    ReshiRampage

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    22
    What to use

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    EVs: 4 SDef 252 Hp 252 Def
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Trait: Sturdy
    Relaxed Nature

    Rapid Spin
    Spikes / Stealth Rock (only if nothing else on your team can have it)
    Volt Switch
    Gyro Ball / Hidden Power Ice

    Role: Rapid Spinner ( and Hazard Setter but unless you want a spinner and a Hazard Setter in one pokemon you should use Ferrothorn, Deoxys-D or Landorus-T)
    What it does: Forretress has one of the best typings in the game. While it doesn't have as useful resistances as Ferrothorn it has Rapid Spin, which is a very rare move to find on a good pokemon. It can also tank a lot of hits from physical dragon types.
    Good Teammates: Choice Scarf users are good teammates to Forretress as it is big setup fodder. It also likes Wish-passing because it has no recovery and will be worn down quickly. Vaporeon and the pink blobs ( Blissey and Chansey) are good because they can take the fire moves that Forretress hates.
    What counters it: Jellicent and Sableye can spinblock against it without any problems at all. Keldeo can set up on it all day. Anything with taunt can prevent it from laying up hazards.

    Additional Info: If you want to take on Landorus-T and dragons better, use Hidden Power Ice. Otherwise, Gyro Ball is better
  23. Eleman

    Eleman

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    22
    For the Forretress set, always use Gyro Ball, it will almost always have higher damage output with Forretress' higher attack stat and Gyro Ball's STAB. Although Landorus does wall this, Forretress is still not a good counter for it in the first place so use something else to counter it reliably.
  24. TaBuu

    TaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    493
    [​IMG]
    Garchomp@Life Orb/Focus Sash/Leftovers/Rocky Helemt
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Attk/252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    Stealth Rock/Outrage/Earthquake/Fire Blast or Swords Dance or Stone Edge


    Role:Hazard User/Support [Offensive/Defensive Pivot]

    What it does:Garchomp is probably the best Stealth Rock setter in the game. No questions asked. With its great base 102 Speed, ability in Rough Skin and ability to pretty much decimate any Magic Bouncer/Spinner, Garchomp can pretty much guarantee Stealth Rocks for your team to appreciate.
    If Espeon feels like Bouncing those Rocks, a Garchomp equipped with Life Orb can OHKO the pussy.
    If Xatu shows itself, Outrage should do the job in a 2HKO. However, if Stone Edge is opted for, Xatu can be taken down if chooses to U-Turn the next turn taking Stone Edge and Rough Skin damage.
    SashTerrakion is easily defeated as well. If he goes for the Rocks Turn 1, Garchomp can attack it with Earthquake, bring it down to the Sash and then next turn proceed to safely set up his own Rocks with his Sash still intact. Terrakion can also choose to attack Turn 1, and allow Garchomp to finish the bull off with EQ. Ferrothorn and Forretress don't fancy staying in if Garchomp packs Fire Blast and Swords Dance allows Garchomp to either open up holes early or sweep late-game if the opportunity arises. As one can see, Garchomp is not a "one way" Pokemon.

    Good Teammates: As he is a bit more support oriented than his offensive counterparts, his support requirements aren't too high. He does appreciate teammates that can prevent spins and possibly spin as well for Garchomp if Focus Sash keeping is an issue. But honestly, Garchomp is the Pokemon you throw in to be the "glue" or "patch" of the team. So unless you're attempting an SD Garchomp sweep, support shouldn't be the big thing on your mind when using this Garchomp.

    What Counters It: While rare, Sash Mamoswine is definitely a problem. He can take any hit [even surviving a Jolly LO STAB Outrage with 1%] and proceed to ruin your Chomp with Ice Shard. If you see that Mamoswine is leading, it could be a SashSwine. So in order to combat this, this is where Jellicent [spin-blocker] and Starmie [spinner] can come into play and help out Chomp a bit.

    Additional Info: Don't treat Garchomp like you would any other Stealth Rock, Entry Hazard Setting Pokemon. Realize that if he gets his Rocks up safely, Garchomp can still be used and abused as a great pivot and late game sweeper. Stopping VoltTurns and crushing weakened teams is always a hobby for Garchomp
  25. False Sense

    False Sense

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    405
    Here's something that's really underrated, but can be quite effective actually.

    What to use:

    [​IMG]

    Cobalion @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 28 Atk / 228 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature (+Spe, -Sp. Def)
    -Close Combat
    -Volt Switch
    -Hidden Power (Ice)
    -Taunt/Stealth Rock

    Role: Mixed Attacker, Pivot

    What it does: Cobalion is a rather unique pokemon, to be honest. With the given moveset, it's fantastic speed and an Expert Belt, Cobalion becomes a surprisingly effective wallbreaker and pivot. Volt Switch and HP Ice provide the infamous BoltBeam coverage resisted by so few, which when complemented with a powerful STAB Close Combat, makes it rather difficult to switch into Cobalion. With the given EVs and the boost from Expert Belt, Cobalion becomes capable of OHKOing, or at least doing massive damage to, a large number of common threats, including Gliscor, Landorus-T, Salamence, Dragonite, Breloom, Blissey, and Gyarados, just to name a few. It also has access to a lightning-fast Taunt, which can prevent dangerous sweepers or hazard setters from setting up. You could use Stealth Rock over it, if you have no other user available, but the amazing utility Taunt provides is usually the better option. It can also Volt Switch out in a moments notice, making it an excellent pivot. On top of all that, it has remarkably good physical bulk, which lets it tank powerful Dragon attacks that plague the metagame at the moment.

    Good Teammates: Cobalion is more of a support pokemon than one that gets supported, so partnering Cobalion up with pokemon that can utilize his abilities is a good idea. Cobalion works great with Volt-Turn cores, especially if they can cover his weaknesses, notably his Fighting, Fire, and Ground weaknesses, as well as his vulnerability to special attacks. Landorus-T and Rotom-W are great for this reason, as they cover up his weaknesses and can spam Volt-Turn to keep momentum flowing. Aside from Volt-Turners, Cobalion's wallbreaking capabilities are appreciated by sweepers who stuggle against common walls like Gliscor or Blissey. Powerful Dragons like Dragonite or Salamence appreciate having walls removed and can sweep once they are, as well as covering Cobalion's weaknesses.

    What counters it: Countering Cobalion can be difficult due to it's high speed and great coverage. Attacking it on the special side is the easiest way of taking it out, so powerful special attackers with super effective attacks such as Volcarona can dispatch it. Also, Cobalion doesn't hit too hard if it isn't hitting something super effectively, so keep that in mind. Bulky Waters can also do well, as Volt Switch often won't hit them hard enough and forces Cobalion out, so they can effectively wall it. Just watch out for it's coverage and you should be alright.

    Any Additional Info: Cobalion usually prefers the above moveset, as it gives it great coverage and the ability to shut down set up. Probably the most notable alternative is Thunder Wave, which can be used to shut down faster threats that try to switch in and outspeed Cobalion. There aren't that many pokemon in OU faster than it though, but it's still a good support option.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)