Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

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Heya!


Winner:
+ Gale Wings!
The votes went as follow:
Gale Wings Swanna: 31
Weak Armor Garchomp: 20 (Joins Honorable Mentions list)
Thick Fat Gogoat: 15 (Joins Honorable Mentions list)
Bastiodon + Pure Steel-type and King's Shield: lol 0

Honorable mentions winners:
Sheer Force Kyurem with 11 votes will be added!



The new slate!:

+ Ground / Fairy Typing (Credit to YouAreOutOfMy5 )
+ Geomancy


+ Spikes (Credit to Brawl MK )

+ Unburden (Credit to mcFlareon )

Keep in mind that the new Baton Pass clause is in effect. Have fun discussing!
 
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OOOOO now that's an interesting slate! I think that the real elephant in the room isnt, you know, the elephant. that cutsie cat-thing with geomancy... IDK about that. IT CAN OHKO ROUGHLY 6/7ths of OU. btw, two eevolution on one slate's quite something. I think Jolteon still couldn't pull his weight too well. Unburden Infirnape is pretty cool, as he would finally have the speed to abuse his high bp moves. as for Donphan, he's not too bad either. will post more (sets, cores) later
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
Sylveon @ Power Herb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground

THE LORD

Geomancy is going to be so good on Sylveon, and this is an excellent buff. Pixilate Hyper Voice hits like a truck. Literally nothing is safe. Psyshock is there for blobs, and the last slot is Hidden Power for killing Steel-Types. HP Ground for Tran, Fire for Skarm, although I would personally go with Ground, as Skarm is 2HKOed by +2 Hyper Voice o.O You know it's good when I'm completely ignoring Infernape lel

Tbh, this is a really solid slate all around. GeoSylv is by far my favourite, although I'll still take a look at the others.

Unburden is actually a pretty good ability on Infernape, allowing it to outspeed the majority of the OU meta. It can run a couple of sets, using either a Berry or Normal Gem (similar to Hitmonlee).

Infernape @ Normal Gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 196 SpA / 60 Spe (EVs outspeed +1 Scolipede, and base 110 Scarfers)
Naughty Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Overheat / Flare Blitz
- Thunder Punch / Grass Knot / Gunk Shot

(if running full physical, move SpA EVs to HP)

Fake Out is mandatory to activate Normal Gem and thus Unburden. Close Combat is STAB, and Overheat is another STAB to hit Ferrothorn and Skarmory hard, although Flare Blitz can be used if you wish to go full physical. The last slot is for coverage, as you only get one chance to sweep. Thunder Punch and Grass Knot both hit Water-types, while Gunk Shot bops Azumarill and Mega Altaria. This looks like a really good buff for Nape as well, I just wish Sylvester wasn't on the same slate lel. It must watch out for Talonburd however, as GW Brave Bird will end it's sweep (Swanna too, but we aren't supposed to talk about that so w/e)

Infernape @ Liechi Berry (or Sitrus Berry I guess, but Liechi is more fun :])
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 60 Spe (outspeeds +1 Scolipede, activates Berry after 3 Subs, full attack)
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Close Combat
- Gunk Shot
- Thunder Punch

This set lacks Fire STAB, but as it is using Liechi Berry it shouldn't go mixed imo, and Flare Blitz at low health is a no-no. Sub is obvious, activating Liechi Berry for +1 Atk and +2 speed after 3 Subs. CC is stronger STAB and your main sweeping move. Gunk Shot for Azumarill, Mega Altaria, and other Fairies, while Thunder Punch hits bulky Waters and Flying types. It has more protection against GW Talonflame, as it can bop it with Thunder Punch if it gets up a Sub before Talon comes in.


Donphan is actually a neat buff. It could probably find a niche on bulky teams as a spinner with some offensive presence. 120 Atk and Play Rough / Earthquake for dual STABs is pretty good.

Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock / Ice Shard

Donphan's new unique typing gives it the ability to switch in on some attacks, such as Choice-locked Dragons, while also having the typing to check Tyrantrum. Rapid Spin supports the team and is getting on hazard stack teams. Play Rough and EQ are obvious as Donphan's newfound dual STABs. Rocks are handy when combined with Sturdy, whereas Ice Shard let's it pick off Sashes and weakened burds like Staraptor and Thundurus.

Finally we have Jolteon, the other Eeveelution on this slate. Spikes makes it a cool offensive Spiker, similar to Spikes variants of Scolipede and Accelgor. It has a tremendous speed tier, and very limited coverage, but it can pivot around so this might actually be cool to see how it would work out. Funnily enough, it would probably function very well alongside Donphan LOL. It also fits very well flavourwise ;)

Jolteon @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice

Spikes is first since it's the buff. Sash can be used to guarantee one layer and likely two (due to Jolteon's amazing speed), or LO can be used for a boost to its attacks. Thunderbolt is its strongest STAB, and allows Jolteon to revenge kill Pokemon like Mega Pidgeot and Other non-Scarfers Flying types. Volt Switch is great for pivoting out to a wall, and HP Ice bops Dragon and Ground types, such as Garchomp and Landorus-T. Shadow Ball could be used somewhere for hitting mons like Gengar and Lati@s, probably over HP Ice.

Overall a very cool slate, good job guys! n_n I look forward to seeing what other people think, and I believe Sylveon is gonna be great (currently has my vote cuz its such a great buff for such a cute mon n.n)
 
Core: Sylveon+Garchomp


Sets:
Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance

Sylveon @ Power Herb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]/ Hidden Power [Ground]
- Geomancy

nothing fancy. chomp takes care of the few things that Sylveon can't OHKO, and Sylveon can mop up from there.
EDIT
After looking over the possibilities of all the Slate mons. Sylveon has to have the single most best buff.
Sylveon becomes a Godess after Geomancy. Literally. It's Speed Tier becomes unmatched as it outruns SCARF Lando-T. like wtf. Then +2 to it's 110 SpA and 130 SpD? forfeit plz.
If it runs Orb it can 2HKO Chansey after the boost.
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Sylveon Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 294-346 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It just runs through anything else like butter. This will be the single most potent set-up sweeper. I has flaws tho. low Def, low previous speed, and if you don't run herb you're bait until the next turn.
oh god. I has Baton pass......
It cant pass, with the recent bp clause. and also, why wouldn't you run power herb? I mean, you're giving your opponent a free turn to try and kill you, and you already have all the power you could possibly want. hardly anything other than heatran can the hit.
 
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After looking over the possibilities of all the Slate mons. Sylveon has to have the single most best buff.

Sylveon becomes a Godess after Geomancy. Literally. It's Speed Tier becomes unmatched as it outruns SCARF Lando-T. like wtf. Then +2 to it's 110 SpA and 130 SpD? forfeit plz.

If it runs Orb it can 2HKO Chansey after the boost.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb
Sylveon Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 294-346 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It just runs through anything else like butter. This will be the single most potent set-up sweeper. I has flaws tho. low Def, low previous speed, and if you don't run herb you're bait until the next turn.


oh god. I has Baton pass......
Let's not use LO in calcs because you are NOT grabbing a Geomancy without Power Herb. Not even Xerneas can do that.
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
After looking over the possibilities of all the Slate mons. Sylveon has to have the single most best buff.

Sylveon becomes a Godess after Geomancy. Literally. It's Speed Tier becomes unmatched as it outruns SCARF Lando-T. like wtf. Then +2 to it's 110 SpA and 130 SpD? forfeit plz.

If it runs Orb it can 2HKO Chansey after the boost.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Sylveon Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 294-346 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It just runs through anything else like butter. This will be the single most potent set-up sweeper. I has flaws tho. low Def, low previous speed, and if you don't run herb you're bait until the next turn.


oh god. I has Baton pass......
First of all, LO + Geomancy will never happen. You need Power Herb or you will never get it off. Secondly, it can't Baton Pass the Geomancy boosts, as OU just implemented a new clause saying that boosting speed+another stat makes you ineligible to Baton Pass (aka no more GeoPass/QuiverPass/SmashPass). Recreant also literally reminded us of that in the new slate post lol
 

p2

Banned deucer.

I don't even know what to say about Geomancy Sylveon. I really think it has potential to be completely busted. It's pretty fast after a boost and it hits pretty damn hard. The only thing that holds it back is the amount of Knock Off in the tier and the amount of common priority moves which can weaken it a lot, especially from Scizor or Talonflame.

Sylveon's biggest weakness would definitely be Scizor, Chansey, and Heatran / Ferrothorn (if HP Fire / if HP Ground) and so I think a solid mon for handling these would be Keldeo. Keldeo can freely switch into these bar Ferrothorn's Power Whip or Chansey's Twave and cripple or OHKO them with Scald / Secret Sword. Keldeo is also a decent Knock Off absorber as it can easily come in on Pokemon that run it such as Bisharp and Weavile. Something for faster Knock Off users such as Torn-T would be necessary though. - I want to say Heatran because it also covers Talonflame, but it's just asking for Superpower Torn-T to screw you over.


Sylveon @ Power Herb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Psyshock

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind


I might post later on some other ones, but Sylveon is one that has caught my interest straight away.
 
Fairy spam imo, Clefable, Diancie/Altaria and Sykveon sweeping teams.

Defensive Altaria with Heal bell, dragon dance, frustration and roost to handle the zards while still being a cleric.

Clefable with flamethrower and unaware if something attemts to set up along side you.

Sylveon with Hidden power ground and geomancy to assist the core. Addibg Magnezone could also be to huge help, though you're still pretty weak to a plethora of mons.
 
Well I suggested Jolteon, so I might as well explain why I suggested it.

Currently, the only pokemon on the OU viability rankings that learn Spikes are Chesnaught, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Scolipede, Omastar (which will never use it), Froslass, Roserade, Klefki (thanks Expert_Occultist), Cloyster, Diggersby (thanks Blazikarados), and (lol) Smeargle. None of these fare well against most bulky Defoggers such as Latias, Skarmory, and Zapdos. Additionally, none of them can pivot out. Jolteon has two ways of pivoting: Volt Switch and Baton Pass. Jolteon's typing is also pretty good: mono-electric leaves it with only one weakness, and given that most Defoggers are Flying-type, it can wreck them with STAB moves. The Flying resistance is very nice, as it allows Jolteon to check Pokémon such as Talonflame and Mega Pinsir. If it's in a bad situation, it can just pivot out.

Another thing is Baton Pass. Jolteon can pass subs, Charge Beam boosts and Agility boosts (not together, of course), maybe even Wishes if you're that type of battler. Especially when paired with a Defiant/Competitive user, opponents will be pressured to Defog.

Then last thing is Jolteon's blazing speed tier. 130 is pretty good in this meta, as it allows Jolteon to come in and revenge kill stuff. It outspeeds notable pokemon like Talonflame (which I already mentioned) Weabile, non-Scarfed Serperior, and non-mega-evolved Alakazam. In fact, Jolteon can outspeeds the majority of the tier that is not scarfed, and can even outspeed any positive-natured scarfed up to 101 (it barely misses out on Garchomp).

I'll post thoughts on the other three later, this looks like a very good slate! I still can't believe one of mine is being slated, :).

Also sorry if there are any grammatical mistakes, I typed this on a tablet.
 
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Well I suggested Jolteon, so I might as well explain why I suggested it.

Currently, the only pokemon on the OU viability rankings that learn Spikes are Chesnaught, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Scolipede, Omastar (which will never use it), Froslass, Roserade, Cloyster and (lol) Smeargle. None of these fare well against most bulky Defoggers such as Latias, Skarmory, and Zapdos. Additionally, none of them can pivot out. Jolteon has two ways of pivoting: Volt Switch and Baton Pass. Jolteon's typing is also pretty good: mono-electric leaves it with only one weakness, and given that most Defoggers are Flying-type, it can wreck them with STAB moves. The Flying resistance is very nice, as it allows Jolteon to check Pokémon such as Talonflame and Mega Pinsir. If it's in a bad situation, it can just pivot out.

Another thing is Baton Pass. Jolteon can pass subs, Charge Beam boosts and Agility boosts (not together, of course), maybe even Wishes if you're that type of battler. Especially when paired with a Defiant/Competitive user, opponents will be pressured to Defog.

Then last thing is Jolteon's blazing speed tier. 130 is pretty good in this meta, as it allows Jolteon to come in and revenge kill stuff. It outspeeds notable pokemon like Talonflame (which I already mentioned) Weabile, non-Scarfed Serperior, and non-mega-evolved Alakazam. In fact, Jolteon can outspeeds the majority of the tier that is not scarfed, and can even outspeed any positive-natured scarfed up to 101 (it barely misses out on Garchomp).

I'll post thoughts on the other three later, this looks like a very good slate! I still can't believe one of mine is being slated, :).

Also sorry if there are any grammatical mistakes, I typed this on a tablet.
You're missing Klefkie on your list and that's a big mistake
 
You're missing Klefkie on your list and that's a big mistake
Ah, I was thinking about that and forgot about it. Thanks!

But my point still stands. Pivoting is great for any pokemon that stacks hazards, and this way you can grab momentum for easily. Klefki is very good, though and I'll add it to my list.
 
+ Fairy typing: Uh, how exactly does this make sense flavor wise? I understand STAB Play Rough would be nice and all, but Donphan looks nothing like a fairy and nothing in the dex or the anime imply it would be a Fairy type. But other than that, could someone explain the usefulness of this? I guess it can counter Dragonite, but it still struggles with Lati@s as they can 3HKO with HP Fire while you can't OHKO back with Knock Off unless max attack adamant, but then you lose to Psyshock. Plus now you just lose to Bisharp and Scizor, so not really seeing this.

Sylveon is broken, I'm not even going to put a sprite for it.

+ Spikes: Now this is interesting. It makes sense flavor wise because of its spiky fur and the fact it can learn Pin Missle. Competitive wise it can now act as a Spikes setter that beats most Defoggers and Spin-Blockers in the tier with T-Bolt plus Shadow Ball. This also differs it from Raikou and Manectric as Jolt would serve as a hazard setter, while Raikou and Manectric would be more late-game cleaning Electric types.

+ Unburden: No comment.
 
+ Fairy typing: Uh, how exactly does this make sense flavor wise? I understand STAB Play Rough would be nice and all, but Donphan looks nothing like a fairy and nothing in the dex or the anime imply it would be a Fairy type. But other than that, could someone explain the usefulness of this? I guess it can counter Dragonite, but it still struggles with Lati@s as they can 3HKO with HP Fire while you can't OHKO back with Knock Off unless max attack adamant, but then you lose to Psyshock. Plus now you just lose to Bisharp and Scizor, so not really seeing this.

Sylveon is broken, I'm not even going to put a sprite for it.

+ Spikes: Now this is interesting. It makes sense flavor wise because of its spiky fur and the fact it can learn Pin Missle. Competitive wise it can now act as a Spikes setter that beats most Defoggers and Spin-Blockers in the tier with T-Bolt plus Shadow Ball. This also differs it from Raikou and Manectric as Jolt would serve as a hazard setter, while Raikou and Manectric would be more late-game cleaning Electric types.

+ Unburden: No comment.
I'm going to ask that if you aren't going to comment on something, don't comment on it. What is writing, "no comment" or "broken" adding to the discussion? We want to have a solid discussion. Not just a bunch of textual grunting.

As for the Donphan bit, I'll explain. Fairy/Ground coverage is fantastic in the metagame, and our resident elephant can actually pull off a very viable Rock Polish set. With 90/120 Physical bulk and 120 Atk, Donphan has everything it needs in order to set up a Rock Polish and clean up the opposing team. Late game, with Play Rough and Earthquake, Donphan will be able to sweep very effectively. This is easily my favorite submission by a community member in a long time.
-The flavor argument has not been recognized in this thread for a long time. We only use that to throw out things like Huge Power Aggron or some BS like Fire/Grass Shaymin. If something adds enough to the metagame--as Ground/Fairy Donphan very clearly does--we will absolutely consider slating it.​
 
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InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
+ Fairy typing: Uh, how exactly does this make sense flavor wise? I understand STAB Play Rough would be nice and all, but Donphan looks nothing like a fairy and nothing in the dex or the anime imply it would be a Fairy type. But other than that, could someone explain the usefulness of this? I guess it can counter Dragonite, but it still struggles with Lati@s as they can 3HKO with HP Fire while you can't OHKO back with Knock Off unless max attack adamant, but then you lose to Psyshock. Plus now you just lose to Bisharp and Scizor, so not really seeing this.

Sylveon is broken, I'm not even going to put a sprite for it.

+ Spikes: Now this is interesting. It makes sense flavor wise because of its spiky fur and the fact it can learn Pin Missle. Competitive wise it can now act as a Spikes setter that beats most Defoggers and Spin-Blockers in the tier with T-Bolt plus Shadow Ball. This also differs it from Raikou and Manectric as Jolt would serve as a hazard setter, while Raikou and Manectric would be more late-game cleaning Electric types.

+ Unburden: No comment.
Agreeing with everything Sun King said, but why would you use KOff against Lati@s? 252+ Atk Play Rough OHKOs the bulky Defog Latias set in the calc. Ground/Fairy is amazing offensively, only being resisted by a few things such as Skarmory, Gengar (bopped by KOff), and Crobat. It is also good defensively, letting it switch in on Dragons and Electrics with ease. Mega Manectric can only do 76% max with Overheat, whereas -1 EQ OHKOs after Rocks or 4% prior damage. Donphan really is an interesting submission and I am very pleased to see such a high quality buff that really does a lot for the mon in question.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I like Jolteon + Spikes and Donphan + Fairy-typing because they give completely outclassed Pokemon new uses and a unique niche (at least for Jolteon). Syvleon + Geomancy is just a boring (and potentially broken) set-up sweeper while Infernape + Unburden is... a thing.

Jolteon + Spikes gives Jolteon a reason to be used over Raikou, as it becomes a cool hazard setter with high Speed and offensive presence. It'll have a bit of issue with 4MSS since it now has to choose between Volt Switch and Shadow Ball on its last moveslot, but offensive teams will definitely appreciate having it.

Donphan + Fairy-typing gives it both offensive and defensive application. Not only can it do Rock Polish like Sun King mentioned, but its new typing lets it check Dragons a lot better at the cost of losing to Bisharp, Scizor, and Excadrill.
 
My thoughts:

Sylveon with Geomancy is broken already lol. It'd be banned to ubers right away it's essentially a Xerneas with less coverage, only difference is it might have a harder time setting up in front of a physical attacker that's about it. Only thing I can see stopping it is heatran and even that wouldn't like a couple of shadow balls and if it's fully SpDef invested it probably won't have great offensive pressure on it. You'd just have to string some priority to kill it or beat it before it's set up otherwise you're done.

Donphan with Fairy is somewhat interesting but would only boost him a little bit. Fairy and Ground don't cover any weaknesses of either type except being able to attack steel types with Ground which might not even be that great against stuff like scizor and air balloon Heatran. Stab Play Rough gives it better offensive pressure and you have an immunity to dragon but otherwise it's just meh I guess. Also
+ Fairy typing: Uh, how exactly does this make sense flavor wise?
idk Phanphy looks very fun and playful I can see it.

Infernape with Unburden is just kind of gimmicky to me honestly. Infernape might not have the greatest speed tier anymore but it's still relatively fast. With Unburden it'll outspeed all of the tier but I don't think he hits hard enough to see that as an autowin like blaziken. He'd lose out on Iron Fist too. I just don't see the best way to activate it really I guess since you don't really need all of the speed that is going to be doubled you could run some HP and take a hit or flare blitz yourself down for a sitrus berry but I just don't see that as very reliable.

Jolteon with Spikes is probably my favorite. Makes the most sense in my eyes thematically and it boosts his viability by a ton and adds another spiker to the tier which there are very few. He has a niche of being an extremely fast spiker and a volt turn user; it finally differentiates itself from Raikou in a big way as well.
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
Just to point out, the three types that resist Fairy (Poison, Steel, and Fire) are all hit for SE damage by Earthquake. Play Rough in turn hits Bug, Grass, and Flying neutrally, giving Donphan tremendous coverage. It can run a Rock Polish cleaner set, a bulky spinner/rocker, or even Choice Band with Play Rough/Earthquake/Knock Off/Ice Shard. The buff doesn't seem like much to begin with, but it has usefulness both offensively and defensively. Fairy grants it another immunity allowing it to switch in on mons like Dragonite and Tyrantrum, while it also resists Dark (meaning it can safely switch in on Tyranitar). Ground also resists Poison, negating one of the weaknesses of Fairy, so you basically trade an immunity and a neat Dark resist for a Steel weakness and Poison neutrality. I'd take Ground/Fairy Donphan over regular Donphan any day.
 
Syvleon + Geomancy is just a boring (and potentially broken) set-up sweeper while Infernape + Unburden is... a thing.
Seriously, did I not just say don't say anything if you're not going to say anything?

This goes for the entire thread. If you are not going to add anything constructive during the conversation period, don't say anything at all. If we want to keep our thread relevant, we need to have good, constructive discussions.

This doesn't mean you can't express your disapproval for a submission. Just don't give one liner posts. You need to elaborate on why you don't like it, and why it's unhealthy in your opinion. I expect the same quality for negatively painted posts as positively painted ones. Put relevant damage calcs, speed tiers, cores, team builds, etc. in your post.
 
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Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Seriously, did I not just say don't say anything if you're not going to say anything?

This goes for the entire thread. If you are not going to add anything constructive during the conversation period, don't say anything at all. If we want to keep our thread relevant, we need to have good, constructive discussions.

This doesn't mean you can't express your disapproval for a submission. Just don't give one liner posts. You need to elaborate on why you don't like it, and why it's unhealthy in your opinion. I expect the same quality for negatively painted posts as positively painted ones. Put relevant damage calcs, speed tiers, cores, team builds, etc. in your post.
Fair enough, by I'm being entirely sincere when I say I have no idea what Infernape is supposed to do with Unburden. All I could think of for it was Normal Gem Fake Out or maybe White Herb CC/Overheat, and even with the boost to Speed it's kinda easy to force out or revenge due to its mediocre power without an item and bad bulk.
 
Spikes Jolteon seems really cool. It gives offensive teams yet another way to stack hazards, and jolteon can either pivot out of or OHKO/2HKO most hazard control mons. A set it might run is:

Jolteon @ Expert Belt / Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch / Baton Pass
- Spikes
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Shadow Ball
- Shadow Ball / Substitute


Spikes is the crux of the set, while volt switch and baton pass allows jolteon to pivot. Using hp ice alongside volt switch means jolteon doesnt give a free switch in to ground types (mainly the ominpresent bulky garchomp), while you can use shadow ball to hit lati@s harder. Thunderbolt is probably the best use of the last slot, giving jolteon reliable STAB to revenge kill keldeos, starmies, and the like. Substitute used alongside baton pass gives you even more utility and can give free switches to other pokemon, mainly frail-ish sweepers like mega alakazam. Leftovers can be used for longevity, but you give up reliable KOes with shadow ball and thunderbolt.

The speed EVs outspeed weavile, and the HP investment lets you take resisted hits (from what, magnezone?) slightly better

252 SpA Expert Belt Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 346-406 (107.1 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Expert Belt Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Starmie: 353-418 (109.2 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Expert Belt Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 295-348 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Expert Belt Jolteon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 173-204 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Expert Belt Jolteon Shadow Ball vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 149-178 (46.7 - 55.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Expert Belt Jolteon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 187-221 (46.2 - 54.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 129-153 (45.2 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Jolteon shouldnt take the place of your flying resist, because its so frail that sharp beak talonbird 2HKOes it. Things like volcarona, mega metagross (especially with grass knot), and bisharp appreciate jolteon's ability to wear down their checks and counters with volt switch and spikes.
 
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MrAldo

Hey
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Like this
Just quote it

Also, geomancy sylveon... havent STABmons taught us anything??!!

Jolteon + Spikes is actually really nice and tasteful. Easily my favorite from the slate.
 
donphan resisting fighting, bug and dark, immune to dragon, great

but weak to steel
checked by metagross, bisharp, excadrill, magnezone...

set with rock polish could be useful but countered by common walls like skarmory, gliscor, ferrothorn

donphan + fairy fails as wall without recover and fails as sweeper without a swords dance



i will vote in spikes jolteon or geo sylveon
 
Just to point out, the three types that resist Fairy (Poison, Steel, and Fire) are all hit for SE damage by Earthquake. Play Rough in turn hits Bug, Grass, and Flying neutrally, giving Donphan tremendous coverage. It can run a Rock Polish cleaner set, a bulky spinner/rocker, or even Choice Band with Play Rough/Earthquake/Knock Off/Ice Shard. The buff doesn't seem like much to begin with, but it has usefulness both offensively and defensively. Fairy grants it another immunity allowing it to switch in on mons like Dragonite and Tyrantrum, while it also resists Dark (meaning it can safely switch in on Tyranitar). Ground also resists Poison, negating one of the weaknesses of Fairy, so you basically trade an immunity and a neat Dark resist for a Steel weakness and Poison neutrality. I'd take Ground/Fairy Donphan over regular Donphan any day.
Didn't think of Fire and Poison idk why those slipped my mind. But I am still more skeptical than you are on how much of an improvement it would be. I agree that I'd take Ground/Fairy Donphan over current Donphan as well but as far as how much of a boost it'd be I think we're talking pretty minimal. I mean yea sure it has offensive pressure for it's fairy typing in Ground but it doesn't have to speed to back it up or the defenses. Sure it has Rock Polish but what is it going to set up on? I can only think of the most passive of walls or something that has a terrible type matchup against it like Infernape without Grass Knot or something. And then once it gets that speed it still lacks an offensive boost outside of stab. Fairy typing helps him defensively against the more attack oriented types but on the special defensive side it's as terrible as it ever besides coming in on Draco Meteor. I'm just saying I don't think it'd be that big of a deal, not like Azumarill getting Fairy big. It's more like Granbull or Whimsicott getting Fairy big imo.
 
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