Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

[Guidorealmsmc]

Jolteon + Spikes: This is a good theorymon as it gives the tier a good spiker with amazing speed and offensive presence alongside giving jolteon a niche over other electric types. Heck it can even run a suicide lead set like azelf and normal aerodactyl do without taunt but access to spikes for more hyper offensive teams. A simple set of spikes volt switch hidden power ice shadow ball gives it enough coverage to work with and provides volt turn teams spikes support that doesn't drain momentum and a volt switcher in one package. Maybe a mega beedrill + jolteon core?

Donphan + Fairy-typing: I like this one. It gives elephant of lame an amazing niche over hippo as it now is immune to dragon and resists fighting, dark, and bug, it has a secondary stab, and the ability to run a rock polish set. With it's new typing it can also counter any dragon dance mega tyranitar without ice punch which is another good aspect as not many teams are prepared for it. Did I menton it's a stealth rocker that can beat mega sableye? I might work on some cores for this such as ferrothorn + donphan since both have reasonable defensive synergy and can blanket check many meta game threats. While it's typing leaves it weak to common types the advantages of it more then make up for it.

Proof it beats mega sableye

4 Atk Donphan Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 124+ Def Mega Sableye: 156-186 (51.4 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sylveon + Geomancy: I can see why people think it's broken but one thing about sylveon that makes me think it's probably not that broken is it's terrible offensive movepool. It has no coverage for steels outside of hidden power and only has psyshock and shadow ball as other special moves so no matter what hidden power it picks it is walled by something. It's speed after a geomancy is only so fast in that any scarfer with a strong physical stab on it that's not resisted can pretty much wipe it out since it has shit physical bulk. Another thing about it is it only gets one shot to set up. Finally it can't switch into knock off like other fairies can since removing the power herb means you might as well sack it.
Infernape + Unburden: This is the worst of the bunch because exactly what does it do with it? It has to run a one time boost item which isn't good because infernape isn't that strong without a boosting item and it lacks ways of activating it. Besides even if infernape somehow pulls off unburden it's easy to revenge kill due to lacking enough firepower to KO stuff without a boosting item and it's bad bulk.

 

[Blazikarados]

Currently, the only pokemon on the OU viability rankings that learn Spikes are Chesnaught, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Scolipede, Omastar (which will never use it), Froslass, Roserade, Klefki, Cloyster and (lol) Smeargle. None of these fare well against most bulky Defoggers such as Latias, Skarmory, and Zapdos. Additionally, none of them can pivot out. Jolteon has two ways of pivoting: Volt Switch and Baton Pass.

Minor nitpick: Diggersby gets spikes (shoutout to CTC and heatah fajita) and can pivot with U-turn (though this is a bit uncommon).

Fairy Donphan is a bit iffy IMO because being steel weak in this meta = Mega Metagross, which you could previously check decently well, craps all over you. While Hippo can switch into Metagross sort of safely, bar high rolls on ice punch or something, Donphan can't really do too much about it. As for being a late-game cleaner, if you run 252+ Spe, at +2 you still are slower the base 150s (Mega Zam, being pretty popular, comes to mind) and up. Adamant makes you slower than things like Mega Lopunny and up. Though fairy and ground are both solid defensive typings on their own, in Donphan's case I'm not entirely sold on the ground/fairy effectiveness.

 

[Random Passerby]

Spikes Jolteon: This is an interesting one since it gives something to differentiate Jolteon from the other Electrics which it comptetes with. Jolteon's high base Speed also allows it to set up Spikes (similar to Azelf and Deoxys suicide setter) or it can even be like Greninja, which is to set up Spikes on a forced switch (which Jolteon can do since it threatens a lot of mons with the high Speed). In fact, Jolteon itself loves taking advantage of the Spikes it sets up since it can eat into bulky mons which can take it's attacks (such as Ferrothorn).


Fairy / Ground Donphan: With this, Donphan trades it's resistance to Steel and Poison for an immunity to Dragon and resistance to Fighting. Yes, it gains a new STAB move and might be able to run an Offensive Rock Polish set but remember that it only have 50 Base Speed so it gets outpaced by Base 150s and most Choice Scarf Pokemon. (If it opts to run Adamant because of its average 120 Attack, then it gets outpaced by Base 135s). Defensively, it is better than before but the lack of reliable recovery hurts.


Geomancy Sylveon: We have seen this one in STAB Mons before (although that one runs Boomburst instead of Hyper Voice). It packs amazing power and sweeping potential and it can choose it's own checks and counters with it's choice of Hidden Power. Furthermore, Heatran and Scizor are not the most difficult thing to lure (for example, Altaria can run EQ for Heatran and Fire Blast for Scizor). It can also form a triple Fairy spam core with Mega Altaria (mentioned before) and Clefable / Azumarill, all of whom can wear down the same checks and counters. To make things sweeter, it can drop a coverage move for Baton Pass so that a teammate can clean up. Really great Pokemon with only 1 downside: the inability to switch into Knock Off.


Unburden Infernape: It can use it with White Herb + Overheat / Close Combat. However, Infernape really wants the Life Orb boost to compensate for its average 104 Atk and SpA. The Speed boost, while nice, doesn't help Infernape face Lati@s, Banded Azumarill, Slowbro and Talonflame, which are it's worst enemies.

 

[aceguy123]

Jolteon + Spikes: This is a good theorymon as it gives the tier a good spiker with amazing speed and offensive presence alongside giving jolteon a niche over other electric types. Heck it can even run a suicide lead set like azelf and normal aerodactyl do without taunt but access to spikes for more hyper offensive teams. A simple set of spikes volt switch hidden power ice shadow ball gives it enough coverage to work with and provides volt turn teams spikes support that doesn't drain momentum and a volt switcher in one package. Maybe a mega beedrill + jolteon core?

Donphan + Fairy-typing: I like this one. It gives elephant of lame an amazing niche over hippo as it now is immune to dragon and resists fighting, dark, and bug, it has a secondary stab, and the ability to run a rock polish set. With it's new typing it can also counter any dragon dance mega tyranitar without ice punch which is another good aspect as not many teams are prepared for it. Did I menton it's a stealth rocker that can beat mega sableye? I might work on some cores for this such as ferrothorn + donphan since both have reasonable defensive synergy and can blanket check many meta game threats. While it's typing leaves it weak to common types the advantages of it more then make up for it.

Proof it beats mega sableye

4 Atk Donphan Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 124+ Def Mega Sableye: 156-186 (51.4 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sylveon + Geomancy: I can see why people think it's broken but one thing about sylveon that makes me think it's probably not that broken is it's terrible offensive movepool. It has no coverage for steels outside of hidden power and only has psyshock and shadow ball as other special moves so no matter what hidden power it picks it is walled by something. It's speed after a geomancy is only so fast in that any scarfer with a strong physical stab on it that's not resisted can pretty much wipe it out since it has shit physical bulk. Another thing about it is it only gets one shot to set up. Finally it can't switch into knock off like other fairies can since removing the power herb means you might as well sack it.
Infernape + Unburden: This is the worst of the bunch because exactly what does it do with it? It has to run a one time boost item which isn't good because infernape isn't that strong without a boosting item and it lacks ways of activating it. Besides even if infernape somehow pulls off unburden it's easy to revenge kill due to lacking enough firepower to KO stuff without a boosting item and it's bad bulk.

You see I thought the same thing about Sylveon but then I looked through what it had to cover and the combo of shadow ball psyshock let's it get past nearly all the things it'd worry about. Psyshock gets rid of Poisons and the bulkiest special defenders like Mega Venusaur and I think even Chansey and Shadow Ball let's it get past Steels which you might think maybe wouldn't care about Shadow Ball but looking at OU's Steels you have Bisharp who you can Hyper Voice anyway, Heatran who wouldn't have good offensive pressure due to the SpDef boost, and Megagross who is weak to Shadow Ball. The only mons I see capable of taking it down are Scizor, Excadrill, and Ferrothorn with the ladder two still having to deal with a good amount of damage chipped on them. Also for Donphan you've gotta take into account Sableye burning Donphan, I'd say Donphan actually loses in that case most of the time.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Minor nitpick: Diggersby gets spikes (shoutout to CTC and heatah fajita) and can pivot with U-turn (though this is a bit uncommon).

Fairy Donphan is a bit iffy IMO because being steel weak in this meta = Mega Metagross, which you could previously check decently well, craps all over you. While Hippo can switch into Metagross sort of safely, bar high rolls on ice punch or something, Donphan can't really do too much about it. As for being a late-game cleaner, if you run 252+ Spe, at +2 you still are slower the base 150s (Mega Zam, being pretty popular, comes to mind) and up. Adamant makes you slower than things like Mega Lopunny and up. Though fairy and ground are both solid defensive typings on their own, in Donphan's case I'm not entirely sold on the ground/fairy effectiveness.

This weakness to steel may sound debiliating and is a little annoying it simply doesn't make up for all the pro's fairy/ground has which are a good defensive typing with important resistances to fighting,dark,bug,rock and immunities to dragon and electric, alongside being a good defensive typing it's absolutely an amazing offensive typing with only talonflame, zardy, skarmory, bronzong being the only 4 relevant mons resisting fairy/ground, it hits so many things super effectively and neutrally. Besides it's not like mega meta is taking an earthquake. In fact mega aerodactyl only threatens it with aqua tail or ice fang which can't ohko while donphan can ohko after rocks 252+ Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 227-269 (75.4 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock. Mega zam can't ohko as long as sturdy is in tact which may not be easy it's not impossible so donphan can live any one hit and ohko in return. The pros of this theorymon far outweigh the flaws for these reasons.

Also for Donphan you've gotta take into account Sableye burning Donphan, I'd say Donphan actually loses in that case most of the time.

Well the thing with this is donphan can 2hko it as it comes in if sableye is ballsy enough to bounce back rocks and sableye has to stay pre mega to burn it so donphan wins this one most likely. Besides I meant donphan was a stealth rocker capable of wrecking sableye if it's actually ballsy enough to come in.

 

[Clone]

k so sylveon is completely dumb with geo so pls dont make this a thing ppl

spikes jolteon will be getting my vote. dont like the other 2 tho fairy type phanpy is cute (yes, i meant phanpy because donphan aint cute).

anyways, spikes jolteon is something i always wished was real because even though its regarded as a shitmon, jolteon is still a decent electric check, and can handle birds like torn and talon decently well. a set of HP ice / volt switch / t bolt / spikes seems decent enough. it wont be the best thing ever, but i can say that as an offense player an offensive spiker that doesnt forfeit momentum would increase the viability of an offense team by quite a bit. pair it with bisharp, and you have a good hazard set and keep core. the reason i say this is because spikes + volt switch enables Jolteon to set up spikes and votl switch out of unfavorable matchups, but still get a spike up and stay safe thanks to its great speed tier. another useful thing is that hippo, the #1 electric counter in the tier, has to worry about switching in now because spikes will rack up mid game and if its not at full, LO HP Ice can kill after hazards, which can pave way for a sweep from sd bisharp or something.

granted, jolteon will still be pretty bad but it will at least have a unique and useful niche on offensive teams.

heres a sample core of what i was talking about earlier:

da best offenz

Jolteon @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch / Baton Pass
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Spikes

Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head

OR

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Superpower
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot


So the basic premise is that Jolteon comes in on stuff it forces out, such as a Slowbro, starmie, or some other water that cant really touch it without dying. use the forced switch as a good opportunity to set up a spike, and volt switch out when youre not facing a ground (baton pass is a funny way of getting around hippo double switches btw :D). should a lati or somethign come in, volt switch out to bisharp / thundy and proceed to punish them for defogging should they choose to do so. otherwise enjoy a free attack.

 

[Froggyboy]

Ok guys, while I may disagree with the slating of Geomancy Sylveon, it is not STABmons Sylveon.

STABmons Sylveon:
1. Can afford to run an item while GeoSylv can't.
2. Can have the broken Boomburst, which has a clear power difference from Hyper Voice.
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 289-342 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 186-220 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A whole 36%.
3. Can have reliable recovery in Soft-Boiled or Milk Drink.
4. Can have Judgement, which is basically a better Hidden Power at the cost of your itemslot. And yes, it makes a difference.

252+ SpA Earth Plate Sylveon Judgment vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 372-440 (96.6 - 114.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Sylveon Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 188-224 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Flame Plate Sylveon Judgment vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 424-500 (123.6 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 212-252 (61.8 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So, while Geomancy Sylveon may or may not be broken, don't draw comparisons to STABmons Sylveon when that was be like 50x more broken.

 

[That Grammar Terrorist]

Fair enough, by I'm being entirely sincere when I say I have no idea what Infernape is supposed to do with Unburden. All I could think of for it was Normal Gem Fake Out or maybe White Herb CC/Overheat, and even with the boost to Speed it's kinda easy to force out or revenge due to its mediocre power without an item and bad bulk.

Actually, I think it's an interesting option. It'll be an even better late game cleaner thanks to sub+petaya or sub+liechi shenanigans, that way it can safely get its HP down to 25% and potentially set up a few swords dances here and there.
Its usual late game cleaner sets are prone to being revenge killed by anything that outspeeds it such as choice scarf diggersby or mega beedrill, but now that it has a speed late game, it can more reliably clean after things that wall are removed.


Why does Infernape receive so many nominations for changes in the first place anyway?

 

[Salemance]

Actually, I think it's an interesting option. It'll be an even better late game cleaner thanks to sub+petaya or sub+liechi shenanigans, that way it can safely get its HP down to 25% and potentially set up a few swords dances here and there.
Its usual late game cleaner sets are prone to being revenge killed by anything that outspeeds it such as choice scarf diggersby or mega beedrill, but now that it has a speed late game, it can more reliably clean after things that wall are removed.


Why does Infernape receive so many nominations for changes in the first place anyway?

Its a mon lots of people like (to each their own. Cant stand the monkey really) and usually lots of stuff seems to stick with it as people think of ways to get it over from the lower ranking of viability. Or its a quota to be filled.


Anyway, while obviously there is a lot of discussion on Sylv, which makes sense cause Geomancy in OU would be intriguing to see, but I'll take the predictable route for me and do Donphan first. The silly elephant, the epitome of the laughing stock of mons in OU since the early days of XY (the hate of this thing was glorious) and how its using a really nice Type Combo. While sure its weak to Steel, Water, Grass, Ice, it has the handy resistances to Fighting, Rock, Dark, and Bug with Dragon and Electric Immunities. His role would probably come round to being a bit of a lesser Exca still for beating Sable, but he is more in tune of being the weird algamation of Hippowdon and Exca like he always is. More resistances to abuse and set himself apart (still no recovery), while carrying a very usable dual attack threat.

He still isnt gonna be winning a whole lot, but he is gonna be doing better than he is now.

Jolteon is a cool idea to be giving Spikes too. He would be trying to fill the void Gren left, by being a fast special attacker, just with downside of being weaker and less coverage. Gren was able to work really well due to its insane coverage and fear of KOs, so spikes came easier. Would Jolt be able to do something similar while still being the electric bugger it is? I wont lie i'd like to try him out in practice.

And yall, thats all i'd like to type.

 

[FootHead58]

Sorta new to the discussion, been lurking for a while and...

Jolteon + Spikes: An interesting move to give it. With that awesome speed, it's definately useable. Throw on spikes and wow it becomes awesome! If only greninja were still around. This thing outsped and OHKO'd it with T-bolt. Those were the days <3 but anyway, Jolteon getting spikes seems awesome. Not at all unrealistic, or broken, it's what the purpose of this thread is. It's not to say "hey guys you know lando-T, one of the most widely used Pokemon in OU? Well let's sit around and talk about how we could make him better" no it's been "you know whose under rated? Swanna that's who now let's give it a kick butt ability" and that's what's being done to jolteon right now and it's AWESOME!

Geomancy Sylveon: that's sorta like giving victini contrary. You get some awesome stat boosts and become a power house. I personally think Sylveon really doesn't need much of a boost, and think that giving it Geomancy may be a liiiiiiittle on the OP side. Sorry Sylveon, love you but we can't have you banned to ubers now can we.

Unburden infernape: I've always loved infernape. He's at that "almost but not quite there" tier of speed where if he were only at the 110 mark he'd be a powerhouse. This ability could do it and I think whoever came up with this idea, more power to you! (Now if we could only get DDance garchomp!)

Fairy Donphan: I like all the above ideas, but ideas like this are why I come to this thread. Oh my gosh YES! Fairy Donphan??? YEAH BABY! You don't think it should be fairy type? Guess who didn't ask you, the answer is me! Can you imagine this though??? What was once that weird elephant thing no one ever used except maybe as a rapid spinner that once would become that thing that would have awesome stab and major face-wrecking abilities >:D I love this idea!!!!

On a side note, if we have an idea for this thread, when do we submit it? JW cause this thread is really cool and I'd love to contribute :3

 

[Force Majeure]

Syl can't BP geomancy boosts yay. :)

I like Fairy/Ground Donphan at first blush. The resistance to Knock Off / Pursuit and Fighting attacks is absolutely amazing for a spinner. I initially thought most of its utility would be as a bulky spinner for balance squads. Fairy-typing allows it to force switches against Latios/Latias as most don't carry Surf, Garchomp, in addition to strengthening its hand against T-Tar. Forcing switches means spinzz, so that's nice. It's also immune to Volt Switch and resists U-Turn. The new weakness isn't awful. Steel is rare enough of an offensive typing that any mon carrying a steel type attack will be a steel type; it isn't quite like a fire, Ice, dark, or ground weakness as those types are more common as Hidden Powers/Coverage moves. Being weak to Exca and Meta is bad, though.

Rock Polish sounds pretty good, or at least good enough to give Donphan options like Starmie or Excadrill. It hits 436 at +2, which is unfortunately slightly short of Timid/Jolly M-Zam/M-Aero. The next important tier is probably the 145 tier, M-Sceptile and M-Beedrill. There's quite a lot in the movepool for a third attack alongside EQ and Play Rough. Knock Off is a pretty strong contender intuitively but there's also Stone Edge.

Not that it matters, but the flavor is spot-onspot-on. You've all seen Phanpy, no?

 

[Froggyboy]

On a side note, if we have an idea for this thread, when do we submit it? JW cause this thread is really cool and I'd love to contribute :3

PM or comment on one of the council member's profiles your idea with a bit of an explanation of to why.
Mysteria
Recreant
Valmanway
Celticpride
unfixable
Sun King

 

[Isa Simple]

Spikes Jolteon:
I agree that this one is pretty cool. The combination of Spikes and a really fast Volt Switch / Baton Pass is a great addition to offense. I would probably opt for Volt Switch in most scenarios as it adds to the chip damage of your spikes, and I can't see Jolteon being able to set up both spikes and anything to BP (Charge Beam, Agility, Sub). Jolteon is just so flimsy, with physical defence of just 65/60, even resisted hits are hard to take;
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 144-170 (53.1 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 121-143 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 129-152 (47.6 - 56%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
Jolteon just looses to so many pokemon 1v1, it will be extremely limited as to what it can both come in on, and set up on. It will almost indubitably need some support, likely in the form of slow volt-turn. As it would fit best on offense, I'm thinking CB Scizor could be a great partner. U-Turning out the Jolteon vs something that can't OHKO Jolt. From there Jolteon can set up a layer, volt-switch / baton pass out, rinse and repeat. It would be an odd spiker as it would play more "hit" a run, getting up the layers gradually, unlike Ferrothorn or Klefki who just get trapped by Scarf Magnezone, and get 2-3 layers in one go anyway.
So yeah, its interesting and useful. But it won't be extremely scary, just annoying to play against when used well, and given the right support.

Ground / Fairy Donphan:
I actually really like this. I was considering submitting Ground /Fairy Donphan myself for the better defensive typing and epic STAB combo, but thought it wouldn't be enough. Now that I realise Donphan gets Rock Polish, I'm finding it very appealing for its greatly improved ability to go offensive or defensive.
So lets talk about Rock Polish 1st. At +2 with Adamant, you reach 398 speed, falling one point short of Neutral 150s, while out speeding +1 Mega T-Tar and Tyrantrum, as well as maxed 130s. Jolly, you reach 436, out speeding max 145s, and +1 Mega Sharp, and Gyarados. Obviously there is still a lot to be desired from 50 base speed, but these levels you get to are good enough imo, especially when you consider that 90/120 Def may even get you 2 boosts, given the right circumstances.
So that's speed, as for power, we have; Perfect neutral STAB coverage outside of 11 pokemon, only 3 of which are relevant in OU (Actually add another due to Levitate). It has decent coverage options like Knock Off and Stone Edge to hit many of these. It also some really random coverage options if you wanna lure something in particular lol. 120 Atk with Adamant, LO, and decent bp moves gives some promising results.
252+ Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 195-230 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 250-296 (65.7 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also people stated that the defensive sets were quite threatened by the many steel types thanks to the new weakness, but After a RP, out speed all of them (bar Exca in Sand), and OHKO most.
252+ Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 346-408 (114.9 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 663-782 (183.6 - 216.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 439-523 (161.3 - 192.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don't wanna touch too much on the defensive side, as we all know it would be a better Spinner and SR setter, but I just wanna summarise.
Weaknesses: Water, Grass, Ice, Steel. 4
Immunities: Electric, Dragon. 2
Resistances: Rock, Fighting, Bug, Dark. 4
Overall, I think it is pretty good tying, and allows Donphan to check multiple threats.

Unburden Infernape:
I feel like this is being quite underrated. Infernape has A LOT of viable ways to get its item removed. Jumping to mind there is;
Fake Out + Normal Gem.
Overheat / Close Combat + White Herb
Sub + Liechi / Petaya / Sitrus Berry
Flare Blitz + Sitrus Berry (Could be useful)
Special lure set with Power Herb + Solar Beam (Hits Waters and stuff like Slowbro)
Focus Sash Lead sets (assuming you loose your Sash if it saves your life)
Air Ballon (Hell, it saves you from Ground attacks, and you can switch into any weak physical attack to proc it)
Weakness Policy (Weak Scalds)
Hell, even just standard LO Infernape switching into Knock Off! (I mean, it does check Weavile, Bisharp, Scizor and Ferrothorn).

So yeah, I can see a lot of viable and unpredictable sets emerging from this buff. The combination of Unburden, Sub, Liechi / Petaya Berry and Swords Dance / Nasty Plot sounds very appealing, especially considering it makes up for the power lost in not having LO and Iron Fist / Blaze.
Also Acrobatics would become more than usable, and gives great coverage alongside Fighting STAB, as well as perfect neutral coverage with Fire STAB added to the mix. In fact, after writing up all those possibilities, this one just became my favorite. It is so versatile and unique, I wanna try all of these sets!
This things cleaning potential is magnificent. Its speed is near on 2nd to none, and it has plenty of ways to boost it sub par power, which honestly isn't even bad to begins with consider its high bp moves, and that the opposition should be weakened a bit before you whip it out. +1 Unburden Infernape.

Geomancy Sylveon:
Not gonna be a sour puss about it, but I don't think this is necessary. I'm still uncertain as to whether it will be as broken as people are making it out to be, but I think the overall impact on the meta would be negative, regardless of whether or not it is broken. The council opened my eyes when they turned down my Shell Smash ideas, saying that even if they're not broken, the tier doesn't need these ridiculous set up sweepers cleaning teams without fault. I think Geomancy falls into this category. Even if you can wall it, revenge it or whatever, if you build your entire team around it, its checks will be worn down or removed easily enough for you to clean 95% of all games. The tier doesn't a cleaner/sweeper that is this effective.

 

[mcFlareon]

Guess I should chime in with the suggestion of Unburden Infernape. To be honest I didn't think it would be chosen but since it surprisingly has, I better state the reasons for the idea- which is purely because of looking at its movepool (I'm actually pretty indifferent about Infernape in general but that's off-topic).

Looking at the movepool there's some things that stand out which can activate Unburden: Fake Out & Acrobatics with a Normal Gem reminds me of Hitmonlee movesets. As mentioned, Overheat/Close Combat can be paired with White Herb for 2nd chance damage (imagine how nice to feels to Close Combat a pink blob and not suffer from the defense drop and get a speed boost instead. Although random Defogs can also activate the White Herb) It can also use Substitute with Sitrus/Petaya/Liechi. Lum Berry can cancel a status effect and instead turn the tide around with a speed boost. There's also Natural Gift and Fling I guess as an inferior option.

Then there's also items such as Focus Sash which could see use for Lead Infernapes. Weakness Policy might be interesting with a Substitute set to get a +2 mix attack boost with the speed? Substitute+Red Card could be a surprise combo to get rid of a boosted up sweeper while Infernape protects itself from status, assuming Infernape outspeeds with Sub. Granted I forgot about Air Balloon, but that's a nice suggestion Isa Simple.

As for lead settings, Fake Out can break any dedicated lead sashes and could be used with a Normal Gem for some extra damage. With the boosted speed, you can probably use something like Taunt to prevent hazards. You can probably even do a fast Stealth Rock setup yourself.

A speed boost after Focus Sash breaks can be useful for a Endeavor lead set. Maybe even use the extra speed with priority Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave to beat slower pokemon who try to pick you off with their own priority. Actually speaking of support options, maybe it can utilise the extra speed to use things like Encore? A fast Will-o-wisp after a Normal Gem-boosted Fake Out to disrupt physical attackers? Just throwing out some options.

That said I'm actually more excited about others in the slate, so I can understand the reception. In fact, I'm really intrigued with Spikes + Jolteon the most with Volt Switch pivot fun. Volt Absorb can also help ease the pressure from rocks if you time a switch to a predicted Electric move. It just sounds really exciting to give a different niche so kudos to the suggestion! :)

 

[YouAreOutOfMy5]

Finally caught up on reading. I wanted to post the long list of things Donphan OHKOs with the Rock Polish set that I gave in the suggestion. Here it goes:

Donphan @ Life Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Play Rough
- Knock Off / Rock Slide / Fire Fang

S calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 315-374 (104.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 335-398 (109.1 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

A+ calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 377-447 (105.6 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 395-465 (152.5 - 179.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 335-398 (101.2 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 398-468 (123.2 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 377-447 (139.1 - 164.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 221-265 (72.6 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (can't switch into earthquake[41.1 - 48.6%]

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 239-286 (69.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Loses 1v1 but can't switch in on earthquake either[40.2 - 47.8%])

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 242-285 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Immune to T. Wave)

A calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 286-337 (110.4 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 234-281 (66.4 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 274-325 (98.9 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 398-468 (124.7 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 322-382 (114.5 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 307-367 (96.2 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 299-354 (92.5 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 369-437 (108.2 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 140-166 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO(can barely revenge kill(can't revenge kill reliably)

A- calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 400-476 (99 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-B: 400-476 (102.3 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 286-337 (85.3 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Mons that either Donphan blows away with 4x coverage or are just fast and not bulky:

Weak ass mons

Bisharp
Charizard X
M-Diancie
Excadrill (<- Outspeeds in sand)
Heatran
Latios
Talonflame (Rock coverage)
Charizard Y (Rock coverage)
Alakazam
Klefki (also immune to t wave)
M-Pinsir (rock coverage)

 

[Sun King]

Finally caught up on reading. I wanted to post the long list of things Donphan OHKOs with the Rock Polish set that I gave in the suggestion. Here it goes:

Donphan @ Life Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Play Rough
- Knock Off / Rock Slide / Fire Fang

S calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 315-374 (104.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 335-398 (109.1 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

A+ calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 377-447 (105.6 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 395-465 (152.5 - 179.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 335-398 (101.2 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 398-468 (123.2 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 377-447 (139.1 - 164.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 221-265 (72.6 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (can't switch into earthquake[41.1 - 48.6%]

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 239-286 (69.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Loses 1v1 but can't switch in on earthquake either[40.2 - 47.8%])

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 242-285 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Immune to T. Wave)

A calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 286-337 (110.4 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 234-281 (66.4 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 274-325 (98.9 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 398-468 (124.7 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 322-382 (114.5 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 307-367 (96.2 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 299-354 (92.5 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 369-437 (108.2 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 140-166 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO(can barely revenge kill(can't revenge kill reliably)

A- calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 400-476 (99 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-B: 400-476 (102.3 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Donphan Earthquake vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 286-337 (85.3 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Mons that either Donphan blows away with 4x coverage or are just fast and not bulky:

Weak ass mons

Bisharp
Charizard X
M-Diancie
Excadrill (<- Outspeeds in sand)
Heatran
Latios
Talonflame (Rock coverage)
Charizard Y (Rock coverage)
Alakazam
Klefki (also immune to t wave)
M-Pinsir (rock coverage)

I want everyone to know that this post was pitched to me during submissions, and this is PRECISELY why I paid attention to it and brought it to the council. He provided the relevant calcs and clearly showed what niche Donphan would fill. It was very easy to determine whether or not this would be healthy for our metagame, and my hat goes off to YouAreOutOfMy5 for this submission. Well done.

 

[Vxy]

Haven't posted here in a while, so why not?

Spikes Jolteon: YES FINALLY! I've been waiting for a fast spiker for a while, ever since Greninja was banned. Scolipede doesn't really cut it for me; I've tried Scoli out a few times, it gets up some things done but then just dies and I find it has some slight 4MSS. But Jolteon's movepool is so barren that really all you'll need is Spikes, Volt Switch, HP Ice, and either Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball in the last slot. It also has Baton Pass to avoid Pursuit so there's that but I rather use Volt Switch for the damage it does, regardless of how (in)significant the damage is. Spikes also sets it apart from other Electric types like Raikou, Mega Manectric, and Thundurus, who are its main competition. Electric immunity is also nice to stop Volt Switchers from gaining momentum, and you benefit from that since you're also gaining health. I think this will get my vote.

Ground/Fairy Donphan: I can't say much about this but literally the only reason I even mentioned it because I want to ask a question. People say it can run a Rock Polish set, but what's it setting up on against offensive teams? Before, if anyone wanted to use RP Donphan, they could at least set-up on Bisharp, Excadrill, etc. Now, all I can think about off the top of my head is Terrakion, who isn't even that common on offense (a shame, because it's such a good Pokemon).

Unburden Infernape: I thought about using an SD set that would look like this:

Hide

Infernape @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat

EVs to outspeed Timid Scarf Latios after Unburden boost, max attack with Adamant because Infernape doesn't need anything else and rest is thrown into HP to make setting up easier. It's also an even number in HP because if it was an odd number it'd be at 51% after two subs so Sitrus doesn't activate then lol. Also helps with Flare Blitz recoil because you get to fire off more Flare Blitz while caring a bit less about the recoil. Setting up will be hard because most of the things Infernape can set-up on have Knock Off (Bisharp, Weavile, Scizor) but I guess you can set-up on bulky walls like Heatran, Ferrothorn, Clefable (make sure it's not Unaware), etc.

Unfortunately, things that can survive a +2 hit will most likely OHKO back. For example, Hippowdon is only 2HKO'd while EQ OHKOs after FB recoil or CC drops. Same with Mega Altaria and stuff like that. It will require quite a bit of wearing down the opposing team and oddly enough because of that reason it's a pretty good partner with Spikes Jolteon. You'll need a wallbreaker definitely.

Geomancy Sylveon: Ugh this has zero switch-ins bar Chansey at +2. You'll need to revenge kill with Scizor or Metagross while balance just gets shred. It outspeeds everything except the fastest of scarfers like Latios, Gengar, and Keldeo I think. Good thing is it's going to be taking a hit while setting up and then you can send your revenge killer, but there isn't much that IS RKing this thing at +2. And this is for offense and some balance, mind you. Stall just gets shredded because Chansey can only toxic stall back.

 

[Ramses]

After looking over the possibilities of all the Slate mons. Sylveon has to have the single most best buff.

Sylveon becomes a Godess after Geomancy. Literally. It's Speed Tier becomes unmatched as it outruns SCARF Lando-T. like wtf. Then +2 to it's 110 SpA and 130 SpD? forfeit plz.

If it runs Orb it can 2HKO Chansey after the boost.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Sylveon Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 294-346 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It just runs through anything else like butter. This will be the single most potent set-up sweeper. I has flaws tho. low Def, low previous speed, and if you don't run herb you're bait until the next turn.


oh god. I has Baton pass......

I made a core similar to this in the GCores Section.

Okay so basically Cobalion is the support mon that throws up Rocks and has TWave to slow mons down for Sylveon and MChomp since they're slow. MChomp then breaks Walls that Sylveon can't get by like Heatran and other Steel Types to open up breathing room for a Sweep.

Sets

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 40 Atk / 224 SpA / 244 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Fire Blast

Sylveon @ Power Herb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psyshock

Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock

This is a pretty cool HO Core that deals with Jolteon setting up Spikes early game to open up room for Tornadus to Wallbreak easier then allowing Weavile or Jolteon if it's still alive to clean-up late game.

Sets

Jolteon @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch / Baton Pass
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Spikes

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Ice Punch / Icicle Crash
- Low Kick

Tornadus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

This is a rain team that deals with lots of tricks in the leading turn. Many will think its Politoed, but BANG its Jolteon to set up Spikes. In rain Hurricane is 100% accurate and Thunder is as well.

Sets

Jolteon @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch / Baton Pass
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Spikes

Politoed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP/ 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic / Hypnosis
- Encore
- Rest

Tornadus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

This core seems fun asf. MMetagross is the teams Wallbreaker. It smashes bulky Waters and Ice types that threaten Donphan. Kyurem is the scarfer and designated RKiller. tI handles a lot of whats out for Metagross and Donphan such as Ground types and Levitators (Gengar, Lati@s, etc) and Skarmory most importantly. Donpan is the Fairy of the bunch and lategame cleaner with Rock Polish.

Sets

Donphan @ Life Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Naive Nature
- Grass Knot
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm

Kyurem-B @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe (plz customize this)
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power / Iron Head / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Fusion Bolt
- Outrage

sorry I'm at tl;dr lenght

Is it bad if I don't really like the Unburden Infernape?

 

[GlassVeins]

This core seems fun asf. MMetagross is the teams Wallbreaker. It smashes bulky Waters and Ice types that threaten Donphan. Kyurem is the scarfer and designated RKiller. tI handles a lot of whats out for Metagross and Donphan such as Ground types and Levitators (Gengar, Lati@s, etc) and Skarmory most importantly. Donpan is the Fairy of the bunch and lategame cleaner with Rock Polish.

Sets

Donphan @ Life Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Naive Nature
- Grass Knot
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm

Kyurem-B @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe (plz customize this)
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power / Iron Head
- Fusion Bolt
- Outrage

sorry I'm at tl;dr lenght

in your last core, you definitely wanna pair it with something (probably a fire-type) that can deal with scizor and other steel types, cause you've got a big problem with em. other than that, nice work!
EDIT: post 200! Awesome!

 

[Patolegend!]

+ Ground / Fairy Typing (Credit to YouAreOutOfMy5 )

Good god I like this, if only for being a spinner that can easily beat Sableye, and prevent Gengar from switching in:

252+ Atk Donphan Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 188-224 (61.8 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 332-392 (128.1 - 151.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It will be pressured for slots though, and will be in danger of trying to do too much. I think it will have to be bulky and spin, or fast and Rock Polish, as it can't fit Play Rough, EQ, Ice Shard, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, and a boosting move all in the same slot.

I don't think it's been emphasized enough though of how important it is that it shreds Sableye (even though Driller does the same, its nice for not sand teams).

Unresisted type coverage is really sound, and although it is slow, it's fast enough to put in work against fat teams.

The fighting resist is also really tasty, as it now not only resists Fight and Rock (standard coverage combinations), it also resists/is immune to both Bug and Volt Switch; it suffers from a lack of recovery, but with a little support it can put in some work.

I can honestly see this typing change see it shoot all the way up to B/B+

As for 'mons it can RP on, why look further than TTar? Others include Zapdos, Dragonite, Latias (Latios if you're ballsy), unboosted DD Altaria, non-flash cannon Heatran (risking the Lava Plume burn though), Klefki... there are quite a few.

It's not even THAT easy to revenge:

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 162-192 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 164-194 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+ Geomancy


Sylveon suffers a lot of the same as Donphan - It doesn't really want to take a hit setting up, is slow before it's boosted, but isn't really that bulky uninvested. At +2, without +Speed nature it's still outsped by Scarf Excadrill and those faster, and it's gonna get decked. Horrible to counter, yes, but not impossible to revenge. Also, if it runs all that speed, it's gonna be easier to revenge, as it isn't that bulky:

44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 270-320 (81.5 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Unaware Clef still deals with it handily:

252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 144-171 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So yeah, less of the broken.

+ Spikes (Credit to Brawl MK )

This is a really nice, simple yet effective idea that again would push Jolteon to the B ranks. It's already pretty useful at the minute with it's excellent speed tier, outspeeding threats like Alakazam, Talon, Tornadus-T, and Weavile.

Another bonus is that it 2HKO's the Magic Bouncers in the tier, so they won't be switching in any time soon:

252 SpA Magnet Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 139-165 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Magnet Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 144-171 (59.7 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It can even use Thunder on a rain team, with the benefit of no-one wanting to hit Politoed with Electric moves. Probably gonna get my vote, to be honest.

+ Unburden (Credit to mcFlareon )

Right, it's good... but using Unburden automatically implies losing life orb, reducing the ape's original power. I can see the intention, to get passed its "not 110 speed" problem, but I'm not sure if losing the item power is worth it for Nape, as it still has that annoying weakness to Talonflame and Azu priority to worry about. Going a hawlucha style Sub Sitrus might be the best way, but with Flare Blitz's recoil and 'nape's low HP, it means you're relying a lot on Close Combat, which lowers your defenses and makes it easier to revenge.

I can see that with its immense movepool and good mixed attacking stats there can be loads of sets for it, but I'm not sure that they'll improve the Apes viability that much. Happy to be wrong though!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Really loving this slate once more, with cool, unused mons and boosts that I wish I'd thought of. Nice one all who suggested them!

 

[aceguy123]

Sylveon suffers a lot of the same as Donphan - It doesn't really want to take a hit setting up, is slow before it's boosted, but isn't really that bulky uninvested. At +2, without +Speed nature it's still outsped by Scarf Excadrill and those faster, and it's gonna get decked. Horrible to counter, yes, but not impossible to revenge. Also, if it runs all that speed, it's gonna be easier to revenge, as it isn't that bulky:

44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 270-320 (81.5 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Unaware Clef still deals with it handily:

252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 144-171 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So yeah, less of the broken.

It's more of a question of what can't sylveon set up in front of. The only thing I'm thinking of are the steels and poisons and talonflame in the tier and why would you ever bring sylveon out on them. Everything else sylveon survives or outspeeds whatever they set up and one shots 3/4 the tier. Nah I'm still thinking it's busted and I'd rather we stick to theorymons who add something to the tier that's healthy, we really don't need a crazy one turn wonder setup sweeper like a cloyster who actually is good. Also who runs SpDef Unaware Clefable >.>

 

[MK]

Mysteria the OP needs to be updated.

Also, in my PM conversations, Recreant said that the new benchmark for submissions is either B or B+, but in the OP it still says C+ as the maximum. Any word on this?

Now the rest of the slate.

Ground/Fairy Donphan - This is decent. With a better defensive typing, it may be much easier for Donpahn to spin. Its STABs are incredibly powerful and can but most of the tier effectively. Offensive with Rock Polish seems OK, but it really doesn't interest me that much. The flavor behind this also doesn't make too much sense, but is adequate.

Geomancy Sylveon- I thought there were "no mindless offensive buffs" allowed? Just kidding, this is actually not as OP as some people think. I did think of STABmons when I saw this, but its not as broken. In addition to what Froggyboy said:

STABmons Sylveon:
1. Can afford to run an item while GeoSylv can't.
2. Can have the broken Boomburst, which has a clear power difference from Hyper Voice.
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 289-342 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 186-220 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A whole 36%.
3. Can have reliable recovery in Soft-Boiled or Milk Drink.
4. Can have Judgement, which is basically a better Hidden Power at the cost of your itemslot. And yes, it makes a difference.

5. The main thing that made Sylveon broken was Shell Smash. Believe it or not, Sylveon could actually use FakeSpeed as well, and the +2 attack helped it tremendously. Shell Smash cold also be used any time in the match, unlike Geomancy, and the item xould be anything from White Herb to preserve bulk, Life Orb for extra damage, or a Plate for additional coverage.
6. At the time it was banned, the recent Baton Pass clasue was not in effect, so it could pass boosts very easily.
7. Sylveon has an even more limited movepool, now down to just Hyper Voice, Shadow Ball, Psyshock and Hidden Power.
So while Sylveon would still be VERY powerful, it is extremely limited, and can be stopped more easily.

Unburden Infernape- Unfortunately, if it doesn't carry an item, Infernape is much weaker. It could function as a Knock Off switch-in, but then would only get the boost for however long it stays in. Same with White Herb. Once you use one of those moves, the speed boost can't activate again. I honestly can't see this boosting Infernape's viability very much, and I'm probably not going to vote for it.

 

[h20phreak]

I'm really liking Jolteon as I keep reading this thread. Jolteon desperately needed something interesting in its movepool and this could be what it needed to carve a niche. Jolteon wins easy against the water and flying hazard removers (starmie,tentacruel,mandibuzz,skarmory), while being able to volt-switch into a defiant user(BISHARP) on the psychic defoggers(Mew, Lati@s). Also hp ice may be standard for bolt beam coverage, but hp fire is an option to surprise bop scizor and the rare forretress while doing some nice damage to excadrill (252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 216-255 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). I think paired up with a defiant user, Spikes Jolteon could have a real impact.

Also I don't think anyone has mentioned that Sylveon gets stored power. After Geomancy it has a BP of 140. Psyshock may be preferred for mixed attacking but stored power is be better in some situations.

+2 252 SpA Sylveon Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 344-406 (94.5 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after SR)
+2 252 SpA Sylveon Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 196-232 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Sylveon Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 452-532 (104.6 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Sylveon Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Amoonguss: 350-412 (81 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Psyshock does more damage to blobs but doesn't guarentte a 2hko

+2 252 SpA Sylveon Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 281-331 (43 - 50.7%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Both have their merits so it depends on your team which is a better choice.

 

[Celticpride]

Also, in my PM conversations, Recreant said that the new benchmark for submissions is either B or B+, but in the OP it still says C+ as the maximum. Any word on this?

The most recent level (I guess?) was up and including B to my knowledge.

 

[baconbagon]

5. The main thing that made Sylveon broken was Shell Smash. Believe it or not, Sylveon could actually use FakeSpeed as well, and the +2 attack helped it tremendously. Shell Smash cold also be used any time in the match, unlike Geomancy, and the item xould be anything from White Herb to preserve bulk, Life Orb for extra damage, or a Plate for additional coverage.
6. At the time it was banned, the recent Baton Pass clasue was not in effect, so it could pass boosts very easily.
7. Sylveon has an even more limited movepool, now down to just Hyper Voice, Shadow Ball, Psyshock and Hidden Power.
So while Sylveon would still be VERY powerful, it is extremely limited, and can be stopped more easily.

Just one problem I have with this: Sylveon can't use Fake Out if it uses Shell Smash, as Fake Out only works on your first turn out, making Sylveon unable to use FakeSpeed to get rid of faster threats. However, I agree that Sylveon had far more versatility in STABmons. Sylveon's Attack stat was a little too low to be revenge killing things with FakeSpeed, however it could easily steamroll weakened offensive teams (that lacked a Fake Out or faster Extreme Speed user) with Belly Drum, which provided loads of power. However, Geomancy Sylveon would be extremely predictable in OU. I don't think many people would still use Specs when Geomancy would be available, and cleric sets are almost entirely outclassed by Clefable. That means that players could be pretty sure that they would be seeing a Geomancy Sylveon as soon as they see it in Team Preview, and they will then preserve their check (e.g. Mega Scizor) and apply continuous offensive pressure. However, it would still be a massive threat to prepare for.