Project OU Theorymon

[Salemance]

I know we hate one liners, but I just wanna drop this in:

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 180-212 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's some power on a resist, and Specs Keld doesn't 2HKO the standard RU spread, which I bet could be optimised for OU (Although it does with rocks, spikes, and burn :().

Edit: Quag, PLEASE burn my Escavalier!

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 265-313 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 399-469 (101.2 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Are you mad man!? The power is not ment for mortal men......not even swarmed band hit for thqt much..... this power is not ment for our mortal eyes. I jest of course....only while i still live away from its might.

Escava has been a popular mon and usually it always gets a buff related to burn immunities. With it once been described as a Dry Skin mon, it ended up lacking a lot of power to do what it really wanted at times. Guts doesnt help with longevity but damn does it at least give it a viable way to assault the poor men and women who find it its foes.

Escav's issues will always be a competition with Scizor and sure it can win out in pure power but that has never ment much with all of Scizor's damn versatility. Here it is just hoping to break through by abusing status absorbers while using a great typing. Can it redeem itself further? I really dont know but the mighty knight is something that is given a shot here at redemption.

 

[Blumenwitz]

Thanks for slating my submission!

As for the others, here are some of my initial thoughts...

Regirock + Fairy Typing and Sand Stream: Honestly, I think Sand Stream alone would have sufficed, because Regirock is just disgustingly bulky in the sand. Seriously, look at this:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 196 SpD Regirock in Sand: 296-350 (81.3 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

That is a super effective 110 BP STAB move coming off max invested SpA and Choice Specs. And it fails to OHKO.

Actually, now that I think about it, I might be overhyping ol' Regi just a little, since the OU staple Tyranitar is even bulkier on the special side.

That said, I can see Regirock filling Tyranitar's bulky support role pretty well in OU. It has a few advantages over Ty, particularly better defensive typing (I guess this is where the Fairy typing comes in handy), much more physical bulk, and it can use Drain Punch to grab some supplemental recovery. On the other hand, Tyranitar has a far stronger offensive presence, and it's a little faster.

Kind of sucks that Regirock can't learn Play Rough.

Muk + Dark Typing and Regenerator: Not bad. The set that Froggyboy posted sounds particularly enticing, and I can definitely see AV Muk putting in work. That said, most physical walls can still stop it cold, especially considering that it doesn't have any useful Dark STAB moves.

(I'm wondering if Power-Up Punch would be worth it on that set. Could give it the extra oomph it needs)

Escavalier + Guts: Lemme get back to this one. On one hand, a guaranteed switch in on Klefki is always a treat (Prankster T-Wave? Oh, that's just adorable). On the other hand, I can see it getting worn down pretty quickly, especially since it lacks recovery.

 

[Froggyboy]

Muk + Dark Typing and Regenerator: Not bad. The set that Froggyboy posted sounds particularly enticing, and I can definitely see AV Muk putting in work. That said, most physical walls can still stop it cold, especially considering that it doesn't have any useful Dark STAB moves.

(I'm wondering if Power-Up Punch would be worth it on that set. Could give it the extra oomph it needs)

I wouldn't say physical walls stop it cold. If you are using Ice Punch, Lando-T and Garchomp have a hard time switching in, and while Hippowdon switches in pretty well, it hates being poisoned. As for PuP, I wouldn't use it, as you are usually using PuP to get a boost while killing off a weakened mon, which works for sweeping mons, but not bulky attackers like Muk imo.

 

[Akumeoy]

Fucking Smogon's forum software deciding to stop sending me updates on this thread. Dammit.

Anyways. Finally a cool slate!

Miltank + Ground Typing: A Hippowdon-esque 'mon with Thunder Wave and Heal Bell instead of Whirlwind (both get recovery and Stealth Rock), and trades the ability to set sand for type-immunity/tanking abilities. Thick Fat lets it trouble a variety of 'mons that rely on Ice-type attacks to hit bulky Ground-types, while Sap Sipper lets it completely cockblock Grass-types, though there's precious little Miltank can do in return. In particular, I feel like Sap Sipper Miltank would be devastating in a core with a bulky Water-type, each handily covering each other's weaknesses.

Muk + Dark/Poison Typing and Regenerator: Froggyboy does as good a job describing Muk's utility as I could hope to. Defensively-oriented Hoopa-U and Mega Gardevoir answers are definitely appreciated. As much as I like Muk, its offensive movepool is more than a bit disappointing. It has sufficient coverage to do damage to offensive 'mons weak to its moves (and things weak to Poison better watch out), but that's... about it; it's a defensive 'mon that can't really do anything but sit there and attack -- Body Slam and Poison Jab unreliably spread status, and that's about it. Without an Assault Vest, it gets access to things like Haze and Toxic (and a slow Taunt), but it's not enough to justify the loss of bulk. Overall this has uses, but I feel that in practice it will be slightly disappointing.

Regirock + Rock/Fairy Typing and Sand Stream: Okay, on what fucking planet is Regirock a Fairy-type? More importantly, haven't we already given a bunch of shit to sand already? I just fail to find Regirock exceptionally interesting, as good as I'm sure it would be. I'm also a bit less interested in things without reliable recovery, as those fall a lot more easily to properly applied offensive pressure.

Escavalier + Guts: aaaaaaAAAAAAAAAA I LOVE ESCAVALIER AND I LOVE TRICK ROOM. Patching up a serious flaw so efficiently in one of the style's defining Pokemon (that I love) is enough to make me forgive an offensive buff. I'll still probably vote for Ground Miltank, but Escavalier's a close second.

 

[Isa Simple]

Two things before I start.

1st: Yay Drought Torterra is back! (Keeping that 100% win rate for reslates from the old but gold).

2nd: Its really nice to have such a defensive and balanced slate. I see no real stand out and all these pokemon are solely defensive, to give stall a tiny bit of breathing room with so many offensive threats. I guess Escavalier is an offensive buff, but its more utility based for Bulky Offense (or Trick Room), rather than a sweeper.

Ground Miltank (Pseudo Hippowdon): There is very little separating Miltank and Hippowdon. People have mentioned that Thick Fat allows Miltank to take on electric types well, but realistically, Hippowdon could already do this by sparing a few EVs while still being more physically bulky than Miltank. Also most fire types are wall breakers and either still beat Miltank, or are checked by Hippo too.
So if you're using Miltank it'll be because you value Sap Sipper, Heal Bell and Thunder wave more than Sand Stream and Whirlwind/Roar. This of course isn't exactly hard to imagine though. With mono Ground typing and Sap Sipper, Miltank makes an epic partner to the endless supply of bulky waters, being immune to both of Water's weaknesses. Plus Water of course resists Water and Ice in return. Lets also not forget that Sap Sipper gives you an attack boost if you successfully eat up a Grass attack, giving a decent offensive presence. Then of course the utility of Heal Bell and Thunder Wave is almost never waisted. Thunder Wave spam is great fun for Bulky Offence builds, and having a Heal Bell user takes off a lot of pressure from opposing status abusers (Why do I want to pair this with Mega Blastoise so bad???). So yeah, overall I really like it. Its simple, and doesn't affect the meta too much, but just mixes things up a bit. I see it as this; "Ooh my team needs a Hippowdon. Now, do I use the OG Hippo? Or the Pseudo Hippo?"

I'm pretty tired at the moment so I reckon I'll look at the others in a different way in the coming days. But I honestly have no clue where my vote is going as of yet.

 

[nameless90]

Miltank + Ground Typing: interesting as a quite fast cleric with Heal Bell and Thunder Wave and a Ground type to make good use of STAB Earthquake plus two ability which are useful to check some pokemons. In my opinion this isn't enough to make Whitney's cow viable in OU because now suffers from all the status around bar paralysis (pressuring Miltank to use 8 PP Heal Bell) and a slight 4MSS: Earthquake is the STAB (with a lot of immunities around), Heal Bell is one of its important trait, Thunder Wave for support and Milk Drink for recovery; you have to forget another coverage move (i.e. Seismic Toss). I don't see it OU material (or higher than C- rank) because, although it has the stats in the right places bar SDef, the cow wants to have even more bulk/both abilities at once to check a useful amount of threats without losing too much momentum between all the pokemons immune to its STAB. As an all out attacker there are other options ==> outclassed in every set in my opinion.

Muk + Dark/Poison Typing and Regenerator: i really like the monsters with Regenerator because they usually have the options to make good use of their bulk and Muk can even run Assault Vest making it a slow offensive tank able to switch-in and out during the game. Good the immunity to Psychic and the resistances to Ghost and Dark to ensure a soft switch-in towards some threats and the incoming Ground move is predictable enough to redeem Muk's flaws to an extent. A solid middle-tier monster in OU and my favourite of this slate.

Regirock + Rock/Fairy Typing and Sand Stream: boring and it would be strong only in sand without a good Fairy STAB to redeem its passiveness; i think that there is a way to make more useful Grass,Poison and Steel-type moves in OU but Regirock is able only to sit and wait until the sandstorm ends and this is not fun or beneficial to the metagame.

Escavalier + Guts: Solid but underwhelming. This is a way to make useful the burn of Scald but the ability Dry Skin would be more effective because Escavalier can be easily outsped and Thunder Wave is always a gamble to avoid: between Fire coverage (popular in a meta where Scizor and Ferrothorn exist) and paralysis support I think Escavalier has to compete against Scizor in terms of teambuilding because they share the same typing and everybody will choose the latter due to the better utility it offers in terms of speed, recovery and Megastone.

 

[Blumenwitz]

As the one responsible for the Miltank + Ground typing theorymon, I think I'd like to bring up a couple of Miltank's other perks.

- Seismic Toss can be used to exert some offensive presence, and it helps make up for Miltank's not-so-great Attack stat.
- Counter is another possibility, with the drawback that it's not compatible with certain utility moves, like Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave.
- This is a bit of a niche option, but I think Miltank has the bulk necessary to pull off a pretty effective Curse set. Something like this:

Miltank @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Milk Drink
- Heal Bell
- Earthquake

The bulky cleric set will be its go-to option, though.

The funny thing is that when I set out to craft a Miltank theorymon, I went in with the assumption that her main competition would come in the form of defensive clerics like Chansey and Clefable. So in my pitch, those were the two Pokemon I compared her to. It, oddly enough, didn't occur to me that its retyping would make it similar to Hippowdon. And while they are both Ground type bulky supporters that are based off of animals whose names are often used as epithets against fat people, I think they have enough unique qualities to make them... distinct but roughly equal, for lack of a better term.

The Case for Hippowdon
- More powerful
- Better bulk
- Ability makes it optimal for sand teams
- Whirlwind

The Case for Miltank
- Abilities help mitigate its type weaknesses
- Better speed
- Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave

 

[nameless90]

This can be the "best" Miltank's moveset as a Heal Beller (the same utility moveset used in UU):

EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SDef
0 Atk IVs
Calm nature (to lower the damage coming from Foul Play and confusion)
Thick Fat (Sap Sipper seems the inferior choice because we don't need boosts in Atk)
- Milk Drink
- Seismic Toss (at least it doesn't need EVs in Atk and burn doesn't ruin it)
- Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave

But you are stopped cold by every Ghost type (bar Thunder Wave) without Substitute and, then, what does Miltank do? ===> I don't see how this retyping makes Miltank more useful/suitable for OU: it stops Volt Switch but lacks or power or bulk to be more effective (in my opinion).

I'd like to talk about the Curse set (something that OU lacks): probably is the only niche Miltank has because it has no competition (thus making it worth of C- rank at maximum in my opinion) but cutting its nice speed makes Whitney's cow a magnet for burns/toxic (pressuring the Miltank to use Heal Bell on itself) and prone to be revenge killed. Not to mention that the 100+ base speed tier is now overcrowded thus making life difficult to set-up without losing too much HP before being a slow attacker and this set is stopped cold by every Flying type and Levitate pokemon ===> I will not vote Miltank.

 

[Blumenwitz]

I'd like to talk about the Curse set (something that OU lacks): probably is the only niche Miltank has because it has no competition (thus making it worth of C- rank at maximum in my opinion) but cutting its nice speed makes Whitney's cow a magnet for burns/toxic (pressuring the Miltank to use Heal Bell on itself) and prone to be revenge killed. Not to mention that the 100+ base speed tier is now overcrowded thus making life difficult to set-up without losing too much HP before being a slow attacker and this set is stopped cold by every Flying type and Levitate pokemon

As I said, it's a niche option, and it'll take a lot of support to actually work. It'd be pretty fun to try if you're the adventurous type, but I think the bulky cleric set you posted is a safer bet. The fact that it gets completely walled by Ghost types isn't that big of a deal IMO, because really, how many viable Ghost types are there in OU? Two?

Granted, Mega Sableye and Gengar are very powerful threats that you need to be prepared for, but even Gengar isn't going to like switching in on a T-wave. As for Mega Sableye... well, every good mon has their checks and counters, right?

Someone mentioned pairing Miltank with bulky waters, and I'm thinking that the Sap Sipper variant could make a pretty nifty partner for AV Azumarill, particularly since they resist or are immune to all of each others' weaknesses. Notably, Miltank can 2HKO Tentacruel with Earthquake, even without any attack investment:

0 Atk Miltank Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 170-204 (47 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Miltank Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Of course, Miltank isn't going to want to switch in on a Scald, so it's not a hard counter.

But yeah, I can see Miltank and Azumarill being BFFs in this meta. Throw in Mega Manectric or Serperior to get past other bulky waters/physical walls, and baby, you've got a stew balance core goin'.

 

[GnralLao]

When Blumenwitz suggested Ground-type Miltank to the council, I didn't really like it at first, but now, after doing some research, I think I found the optimal Miltank spread (or at least, another one with many benefits over the generic max/max spreads and Hippowdon) for the cleric set that will probably lead me into voting for it:

Holy cow! Dat steak be blue! (Miltank) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpD
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Milk Drink
- Thunder Wave

This spread allows Miltank to avoid being 2HKO'ed by many dangerous threats like MegaZard-X, M-Alakazam, M-Diancie, Weavile, Gengar, Latias, Specs Raikou and Victini (and I've probably forgot others), all of which prove to be quite bothering for Hippowdon to deal with to some degree:

Calcs

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 201-237 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (84.4% chance to 2HKO after SR)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Miltank: 171-202 (43.5 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (only a 7.4% chance to 2HKO after SR!)

252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 210-247 (50 - 58.8%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 2HKO after SR)
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Miltank: 177-208 (45 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (27.3% chance to 2HKO after SR)

224 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (92.6% chance to 2HKO after SR)
224 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Miltank: 171-202 (43.5 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (again, only a 7.4% chance to 2HKO after SR!)

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 242-283 (57.6 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Miltank: 175-208 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Thick Fat Miltank: 151-182 (38.4 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(52.9% + 46.3% = 99.2% = Miltank survives and can't be 2HKOed unless SR is up)

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 192-227 (45.7 - 54%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (51.6% chance to 2HKO after SR)
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Miltank: 165-195 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

184 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 265-312 (63 - 74.2%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (75% chance to 2HKO after SR)
184 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Miltank: 224-265 (56.9 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (only a 3.1% chance to 2HKO after SR)

252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 204-242 (48.5 - 57.6%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (95.3% chance to 2HKO after SR)
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Miltank: 115-136 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 282-333 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Miltank: 160-190 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Thick Fat Miltank: 181-214 (46 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (56.3% chance to 2HKO after SR)
(after V-Create's Speed drop, Hippowdon is still slower than Victini (in fact, Hippowdon will only be faster after three V-Creates) while Miltank is faster than it, which unables it to regain its health via Milk Drink or even paralyse Victini/the switch-in if that plays to your favor)

Some of these calcs don't differ mcuh if you use regular Miltank, but the major difference between the two would be that Ground-type Miltank, due to itsnew typing, takes less damage from SR and that makes it already much more viable in OU since it can now tank moves more easily after SR.

This spread also allows Miltank to deal with other threats that Hippowdon doesn't have any problem with either like Thundurus (Nasty Plot variants can prove to be problematic for both though), MegaMan (this thing does about 20% on a max roll with Overheat and even less with HP Ice lol) and more.

The other thing about Miltank that I really like is that at first, when you see it in team preview, it'll be quite hard to guess which ability it's running (unless you Trace it with Gardevoir/MegaZam from the start/middle of the battle) and that could create some mind games. For example, you wouldn't want to spam Leaf Storms around with your Serperior while your opponent still has a Miltank in fear it gets an Atk boost due to Sap Sipper. What you don't know is that it probably has Thick Fat, but since it can have Sap Siapper too, you have to try to play more carefully only because of its presence among the opposing team.

Anyway, that's my take on Ground-type Miltank. I'll probably talk about the others when I have more time to do so.

 

[nameless90]

The calcs are interesting, but if you fully invest in SDef + a Sdef enhancing nature doesn't make sense to post scenarios with Thick Fat and Sap Sipper together (although the possiblity to run one of this abilities creates some mindgames vs Mega Char-Y). To make the examples more accurate, please split the SDef set in three parts (with Sap Sipper, with Thick Fat and the last versus threats without Grass, Fire or Ice coverage) and the same with the physical set.

For example, if Sdef Miltank runs Thick Fat, defensive Mega-Venusaur almost 2HKO with Giga Drain (feature impossible if the cow has Sap Sipper) but, then, why do you post calcs versus Mega-Char Y with Miltank having Thick Fat? Ok, the mindgame is really nice in this case but changing ability is confusing.

That's to say that Whitney's cow can choose what pokemon can check/counter depending on its ability but you can choose one EV spread (physical defensive/special defensive/I don't know if mixed makes sense) and one ability ===> the list of threats you can check/wall is shorter than that one you wrote.

 

[Sacrificial Lambtias]

Poison/Dark Regenerator Muk: After running some calcs using froggyboy's set, I'm rather impressed by how well Muk can handle special attackers in the tier. Unfortunately, Muk's less impressive defenses make it easy to 2HKO with Strong Neutral attacks.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Muk: 262-310 (68.9 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Muk: 339-400 (89.2 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Having only one weakness to Physical Ground type moves is pretty cool, even if every team has something with earthquake on it. Nonetheless, Muk is fairly solid as a bulky pivot, and I can see myself voting for this one.
Ground Miltank: If only it had recived Rock type for STAB Rollout nightmares... I'm kidding. In all seriousness, This would be a Ground type Physically oriented Clefable if it had also received bulk up. Like Clefable, you are having internal struggles with which ability to take. Miltank can do so many things that it may be hard to guess what it is going to do next. Stealth Rock? Maybe. Thunder Wave? Maybe. Curse? Maybe. Rollout? Probably not. I like this one too. I'll have to see where things go before I decide whether or not to vote on this or Muk.
Rock/Fairy Sand Stream Regirock: I didn't know Regirock was secretly a Disney princess! I don't really see why we need more Sand Stream users in OU. It may be almost impossible to stop this thing from using Stealth Rock, but that doesn't mean it is good. Eventually, it will be worn down like the rock it is and become a part of its own sandstorm.
Guts Escavalier: I never thought something could wish that toxic could affect it. Unfortunately, Escavalier getting burned by a Scald isn't a guranteed thing, and Escavalier has to take a hit every time it wants to attack, so it is going down fast. I think Escavalier has the chance to delete certain mons, but the odds of things working for Escavalier are just too low for me to get behind it.

 

[Sacrificial Lambtias]

it gets curse fren

I did say that it might be running Curse.

 

[MANNAT]

I did say that it might be running Curse.

im just saying that it already is a physical clefable in terms of what you were saying with curse since clef is slow af anyways.

 

[Blumenwitz]

Eventually, it will be worn down like the rock it is and become a part of its own sandstorm.

That's beautiful.

In all seriousness, This would be a Ground type Physically oriented Clefable if it had also received bulk up.

Just a minor nitpick, but Miltank doesn't learn Bulk Up. It does learn Curse, though, but you already knew that.

Unfortunately, Escavalier getting burned by a Scald isn't a guranteed thing

But it does make Escavalier great at switching into wisps. Here's a couple of calcs for you:

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 204-241 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Sableye: 273-322 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


Not bad, eh?

 

[GnralLao]

Here are more calcs proving your point:

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 105-124 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 237-279 (66 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 159-188 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 392-462 (109.1 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if Talonflame Roosts)

232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 99-117 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 608-716 (219.4 - 258.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

248 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 135-160 (41.6 - 49.3%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 542-638 (206 - 242.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Iron Head vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 334-394 (126.9 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 662-782 (163.8 - 193.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 79-94 (24.3 - 29%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 228-268 (75.2 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (pretty sure Rotom-W would switch out/Volt Switch, but whatever)


Also, remember that Escavalier especially LOVES switching into Thunder Waves and is able to deal with those who paralyse it, forcing the opponent to either stay in and die or switch out and pray that the switch-in won't get hit too hard:

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 31-37 (9.5 - 11.4%) -- possible 9HKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 390-458 (99.2 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 29-34 (8.9 - 10.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 222-262 (63 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 121-142 (37.3 - 43.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 240-283 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 204-244 (62.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (rarely seen, so the next calc would be more realistic...)
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 55-66 (16.9 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 456-536 (115.7 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 133-157 (41 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 516-608 (128 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Mega Latias: 488-576 (134.4 - 158.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 61-73 (18.8 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO (pray to the Hax Gods you won't get flinched to death)
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Togekiss: 426-504 (113.9 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 439-517 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Of course, the risk of not being able to move while paralyzed is to be considered at all times and can greatly hamper Escavalier's job, but so can the burn from Scald and Will-O-Wisp. However, the real problem I see with Escavalier is that it's status reliant and without a burn/paralysis, it becomes much less of a threat despite its base 135 Atk stat.

In overall, Escavalier surely will get easily worn down, but somebody facing one will have to play much more carefully to not status it by accident.

 

[Jaroda]

Miltank + Ground-type This is a pretty cool idea. Miltank's abilities really help offset the sheer stat difference between it and Hippowdon and lets not forget its crazy good 100 speed for a tank! That means it can actually switch into things and heal the next turn which Hippo can't necessarily do.

Poison / Dark Muk + Regenerator Love the Poison/Dark typing, and Regenerator is a natural fit for something with such great HP.

Rock/Fairy Regirock + Sand Stream Sand Stream was a given for this thing, but why Fairy typing? If anything it needs to be part Fighting so that it can get access to STAB Drain Punch. Curse + STAB Drain Punch and Stone Edge and instant Sand Stream? That's crazy good offensive and defensive presence!

Escavalier + Guts This works well because Escavalier makes for a natural AV user to switch into Scalds and Thunder Waves/Glare. I would only say we need to add U-Turn onto this thing as well to really abuse its pivot potential.

 

[Phione]

Here are more calcs proving your point:

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 105-124 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 237-279 (66 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 159-188 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 392-462 (109.1 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if Talonflame Roosts)

232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 99-117 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 608-716 (219.4 - 258.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

248 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 135-160 (41.6 - 49.3%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 542-638 (206 - 242.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Iron Head vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 334-394 (126.9 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 662-782 (163.8 - 193.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 79-94 (24.3 - 29%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 228-268 (75.2 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (pretty sure Rotom-W would switch out/Volt Switch, but whatever)


Also, remember that Escavalier especially LOVES switching into Thunder Waves and is able to deal with those who paralyse it, forcing the opponent to either stay in and die or switch out and pray that the switch-in won't get hit too hard:

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 31-37 (9.5 - 11.4%) -- possible 9HKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 390-458 (99.2 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 29-34 (8.9 - 10.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 222-262 (63 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 121-142 (37.3 - 43.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 240-283 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 204-244 (62.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (rarely seen, so the next calc would be more realistic...)
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 55-66 (16.9 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 456-536 (115.7 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 133-157 (41 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 516-608 (128 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Mega Latias: 488-576 (134.4 - 158.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 61-73 (18.8 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO (pray to the Hax Gods you won't get flinched to death)
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Togekiss: 426-504 (113.9 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 439-517 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Of course, the risk of not being able to move while paralyzed is to be considered at all times and can greatly hamper Escavalier's job, but so can the burn from Scald and Will-O-Wisp. However, the real problem I see with Escavalier is that it's status reliant and without a burn/paralysis, it becomes much less of a threat despite its base 135 Atk stat.

In overall, Escavalier surely will get easily worn down, but somebody facing one will have to play much more carefully to not status it by accident.

Yeah be careful there, sure Talon might Will-O on the switch but it's very dangerous to predict Talon's set like that, especially when offensive SD is so good right now. Talon EASILY outspeeds Esca and OHKOs with a Flare Blitz, so you have to be pretty careful about coming in.

 

[GnralLao]

Yeah be careful there, sure Talon might Will-O on the switch but it's very dangerous to predict Talon's set like that, especially when offensive SD is so good right now. Talon EASILY outspeeds Esca and OHKOs with a Flare Blitz, so you have to be pretty careful about coming in.

You're absolutely right, but once you know you're facing the stallbeaker set, Escavalier can easily switch into it. That's all I was implying.

 

[Vxy]

What's up with the all the type changes recently o.o

Poison/Dark + Regenerator: lol why did I think this was Weezing -.- Anyways Regenerator is pretty much a boon to any defensive Pokemon without reliable recovery. Also comes with a decent enough defensive typing, with (I think) one weakness. It doesn't have many resistances, only notable ones being Dark and Ghost because they're so hard to switch into without having something that's really bulky. An offensive AV set seems nice to check things like Gengar, but I don't like it that much because of Dark taking away some of its resistances (namely Fighting, the important one). Definitely not bad, and being able to check Serperior is helpful for a lot of teams.

Rock/Fairy Regirock + Sand Stream: extremely bulky on both sides in sand, but I think we already have two good sand setters. To be honest I don't see much this can do that regular Regirock or some other Pokemon can't do better. Tyranitar provides offensive and defensive presence in one, while Hippowdon checks so many things. Although, I have to give this Regirock credit for being the only Charizard X counter in existence, while also being able to check Charizard Y. Off the top of my head, stuff it checks/counters are Charizard X and Y, Weavile, Tornadus-T, Tyranitar, and more but like I said, that's off the top of my head.

Guts Escavalier: yippee another thing to kill stall...lol come on guys, as much as I hate stall, do we really have to keep adding wallbreakers/stallbreakers? It's better than Conkeldurr in some ways because it hits harder and can actually beat Mega Sableye, so that's nice. It's also one of the few physically offensive Bug types out there, the others being Mega Pinsir, Mega Beedrill, and (Mega) Scizor. None of them like status, and...well, to be fair, Escavalier doesn't really like being worn down so fast, but appreciates the power boost. The other thing is that it's really predictable outside of Pursuit or Knock Off in the last slot, and a lot of stuff right now carries HP Fire.

No opinion on Miltank.

Also I have my own Regirock submission (different from this one). Even if Regirock wins/gets added to HM list in this slate, can I still submit my Regirock submission? I've had the idea for weeks but never got around to submitting it lol.

Edit:

Ooh interesting slate.
Miltank + Ground-type immediately strikes me as pretty interesting. While its offenses are nothing spectacular, with Sap Sipper or Thick Fat it serves as an excellent bulkmon to tank physical attacks. However, there's one problem that I see immediately and that's this.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Miltank: 482-570 (122.6 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yep, that's a guaranteed OHKO off Timid Specs Keldeo with significant SpD investment and no hazards on the field.

Why are you expecting a Ground type to live a Specs Hydro from Keldeo ._.

 

[GnralLao]

Also I have my own Regirock submission (different from this one). Even if Regirock wins/gets added to HM list in this slate, can I still submit my Regirock submission? I've had the idea for weeks but never got around to submitting it lol.

If Regirock wins, I don't think we're gonna accept a third buff on it, but if it only gets added to the honorable mention list (or doesn't even make it there), we'll be happy to consider your submission for uncoming slates! Ü

 

[Patolegend!]

Rock/Fairy Regirock + Sand Stream Sand Stream was a given for this thing, but why Fairy typing? If anything it needs to be part Fighting so that it can get access to STAB Drain Punch. Curse + STAB Drain Punch and Stone Edge and instant Sand Stream? That's crazy good offensive and defensive presence!

Escavalier + Guts This works well because Escavalier makes for a natural AV user to switch into Scalds and Thunder Waves/Glare. I would only say we need to add U-Turn onto this thing as well to really abuse its pivot potential.

Yeah, a really slow U-Turn would be cool, but it would make it more of a BP less Scizor. I kinda like the way that in addition to the bulky AV route it can go Flame Orb offensive on TR, giving it a Band with the power to change moves; it's actually pretty hard to switch into apart from Skarm, as it has reasonable four move coverage with Knock Off and Drill Run.

The Fairy typing was just so it doesn't get arseholed by Char-Y's fighting coverage, while also offering the bonus of ensuring Char-X can't use tough claws boosted stab against it. It's purpose was to counter both Charizards.

 

[bluegrass]

Regirock: Having a mon that can counter both Zards while laying down Stealth Rocks sounds like a pretty great niche tbh. It can also spread paralysis with Thunder Wave, and can check a plethora of flying types thanks to it's STAB Stone Edge.

Unfortunately he doesn't get Play rough and he has to rely on Lefties for recovery, but I think he would be a solid addition to the tier. Yeah having a 4x weakness to Steel sucks, but at least you always know which pokemon are going to use steel type moves. No one is running HP Steel anything

I didn't think we'd be able to follow up on last weeks amazing slate, but I think this one is even better. Regirock won't be the sexy choice, and I don't think it'll win, but I'm voting for it because fuck zards. Although...

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 292-344 (80.2 - 94.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[MANNAT]

Regirock: Having a mon that can counter both Zards while laying down Stealth Rocks sounds like a pretty great niche tbh. It can also spread paralysis with Thunder Wave, and can check a plethora of flying types thanks to it's STAB Stone Edge.

Unfortunately he doesn't get Play rough and he has to rely on Lefties for recovery, but I think he would be a solid addition to the tier. Yeah having a 4x weakness to Steel sucks, but at least you always know which pokemon are going to use steel type moves. No one is running HP Steel anything

I didn't think we'd be able to follow up on last weeks amazing slate, but I think this one is even better. Regirock won't be the sexy choice, and I don't think it'll win, but I'm voting for it because fuck zards. Although...

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 292-344 (80.2 - 94.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

better yet:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 412-488 (113.1 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Akumeoy]

better yet:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 412-488 (113.1 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Of course, if it's running Iron Tail, it either lacks Roost or a STAB move, meaning that some other counter will open up or Char X gets worn down. But it would still be valid as a lure, if Regi became popular and was a problem to the team.