Other OU Type Analysis Project: Week 7 - Ghost-type

[trc]

APPROVED BY HAUNTER AND SUBJECT 18

Hey guys, this is OU's Type Analysis Project! The aim of this project is to discuss and evaluate information regarding metagame trends, categorised into 18 weeks for the corresponding 18 types. After 18 weeks are over, we'll look back at the previous week of the upcoming type and compare the Pokemon of that type in terms of how they play in the metagame, what new trends have arisen, and what new sets they're commonly seen running.

Things I'd like people to discuss (and I'd like to see at least one, preferably more of these ideas featured in each post) are:

• What are the most popular Pokemon of this type seen in OU?
• What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
• What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?
• What sorts of Pokemon does this type collectively threaten?
• What sorts of Pokemon threaten many of the members of this type?
• What sorts of metagame trends have occurred to the many Pokemon in this type?
• What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?
• What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?
• How do these Pokemon compare to each other in their respective roles?
• How strong do you feel this type is as a whole?

Note that I prefer for emphasis to be put on comparisons, not only between Pokemon but also between the stages of a metagame in which a Pokemon was used. How is it used now? What changed?

Week 7's type is the Ghost-type:

(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon).

Please not that this thread is NOT to discuss about whether Aegislash is broken or not, please direct that to the np thread. You can however talk about what sets it runs, and use it as examples in the questions up above. I also wouldn't mind if you talked about a hypothetical Ghost / Fairy Mismagius because it came up in the theorymon thread and garnered some interesting discussion. Go nuts =)

 

[Zebstrika]

I reached suspect reqs with a stall team that included Gourgeist, so I'll talk about how that worked..

Isn't it so cute?

The set

Gourgeist-Small @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 224 HP / 116 Def / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Seed Bomb
- Substitute
- Leech Seed

The EVs out speed Excadrill and put the rest into bulk (224 HP allows 5 Subs from full), and there's really not much in between Excadrill's base 88 speed and Gourgeist's base 99. Sub+Seed+Wisp are all annoying, doing damage, crippling physical attackers, blocking status, stalling, etc. Seed Bomb is nothing notable, feel free to replace it with Protect or Destiny Bond or Light Screen or whatever your preference. Phantom force looks cool on paper but it's a big momentum killer, it gives the opponent a free turn to switch and you don't get to Sub on the switch.

So Gourgeist has a couple of decent niches, and I'll try to relate them to Ghost typing.

First, Sub+Seed+Wisp is just trolly and irritating, We're all familiar with SubSeed, but Gourgeist gets to add in Will-O-Wisp, which adds to the residual damage, you get to spread it around with the switches Leech Seed forces, and it means that many physical attackers can't even break the Sub after a burn. Will-O-Wisp is a nice move in nearly every Ghost's movepool (not Aegislash, but I think we're glad he doesn't have that, right?), and it's really the only reason pokemon like this Small Gourgeist or Sableye could ever be considered defensive (Gourgeist would still have a nice defense stat but be largely outclassed by his big brother), they get to burn attackers before they can move.

Substitute is actually pretty nice on Ghosts as well, with their immunities, once they set it up, pokemon like Chansey can't even touch them, you see Gengar, Chandelure, and Aegislash put it to good use too.

Second, Gourgeist-Small is the best Excadrill spinblocker. Ghosts aren't really prized for their spin blocking any more with Defog (and ironically, Aegislash being such a good spinblocker it chased most of the spinners like Starmie and Forretress out of OU), but if you really are looking for something to scare off Excadrill and keep your hazards up, Gourgeist gets the job done, having Earthquake resistance. Fast Will-O-Wisp means it only has to fight Excadrill at full power on the switch, after that Exca can't even break its subs.

Third, it's a small niche, but Gourgeist is among the few things not screwed by the Mega Gyarados+Gothitelle core. If you haven't run into it with a defensive team:

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SAtk / 172 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

This core runs off Mega Gyarados Late-Game sweeping. Now, M-Gyarados is an excellent late-game sweeper with it's great bulk and high attack, but it does have its fair share of flaws. It is easily walled by the likes of Slowbro, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Ferrothorn, Chesnaught & Mega Venasuar (If Lacking Ice Fang) and Kyruem-B (If Lacking Stone Edge) Now here comes the good part. If Gyarados has Stone Edge instead of Ice Fang, Cube is out of the equation. Now that he's gone, Gothitelle can Trap and remove All of the threats. With one of the best abilitys in the game, Shadow Tag, it can trap many of Gyarados's Checks And remove them with Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, and Psychic.

This core works best when Gyarados isn't sent into play until it's checks and counters are removed by Gothitelle. If Gyarados stays at full Heath, it can come in on something that can't touch it, Say, Greninja, and force it out while possibly getting 2 dragon dances off. If Gothitelle has done its job, it's Good Game from then on. Gyarados can switch in early game if you need to lure its counters in, but it is generally not safe. Gothitelle only use after trapping is death fodder, but it's job was done nonetheless

There are a few things that are a danger to this core, mainly Conkeldor and Breeloom. Conk and Breloom can both revenge kill Gyarados, while gothitelle cant do anything about it as Conkeldor has Knock off and Breloom can put it to sleep. Conkeldor can be delt with to some extent by no mega evolving Gyarads, but the power loss is notiable pre-mega. Talonflame makes a great partner.

Ghosts can't be trapped, which leaves Gourgeist among the few remaining M-Gyarados counters not screwed by Gothitelle. Small form outspeeds to burn Gyarados if it's unboosted, though after DD Gourgeist takes a lot from Ice Fang. Still it survives to get the burn off (and Stone Edge synergizes better with Gothitelle so you won't always see it in this core), making it easy to pick off with a teammate.

So that basically brings out the defensive side of ghosts. I'll let someone else cover its offensive perks because Gourgeist isn't really making use of that spammable ghost stab, ghosts got totally stuffed on physical attacks. The strongest one-turn physical ghost attack is Shadow Claw at 70 base power (Gourgeist doesn't even learn anyway), thanks Trollfreak.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

I'd like to mention this guy as a very good spike setter since deos ban.
Idea is set up one or 2 layers of spikes with its speed.
Also it has the option of destiny bond killing anything it hates.

 

[Aragorn the King]

What are the most popular Pokemon of this type seen in OU?
Aegislash and Gengar are by far the most common Ghost-types in OU. Aegislash is an extremely good bulky offensive Pokemon that can beat many of its would be checks with its adequate movepool, while Gengar is known for its exceptional stallbreaking set.
What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?

Sableye is a very interesting Pokemon. It has very mediocre stats, however its fantastic typing, ability, and movepool allows it to carve a niche as a physically defensive Pokemon that stops Mega Medicham. Mega Banette is an interesting Pokemon, known for its ability to break stall and get at least one guaranteed kill against offensive teams. Froslass is an interesting hazard setter, that gets utility from Spikes, Cursed Body, and Destiny Bond. Chandelure is an effective stall breaker that is able to check/counter Mega Gardevoir, Mega Charizard-Y, and Mega Mawile. Finally, Gourgeist-S is an interesting Pokemon in OU that counters Excadrill, Breloom, Diggersby, can SubSeed, and use Will-o-Wisp to cripple physicaly offensive Pokemon.
What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?
Cofagrigus is very sturdy physically, and has the ability to remove a Pokemon's ability if it makes contact, thus hurting Azumarill and Medicham a lot. It also can threaten teams with Trick Room and Nasty Plot. Gourgeist-Xl is a more sturdy Gourgeist-S; it exchanges HP and Attack for a lot of Speed. It's useful mostly on Trick Room teams, but also can find use on teams that require a physical wall, rather than a speedy check to physically offensive Pokemon.
What sorts of Pokemon does this type collectively threaten? [URL='http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/065.shtml'][/URL]
Collectively, the Ghost-type is most threatening to Psychic-types. They don't resist their STAB moves, but they are able to hit them super-effectively with their STABs. Ghost-types with a secondary typing that resists Ghost, like Aegislash, are exceptionally annoying for Psychic types. Faster Ghost-types are also to threaten slower Ghost-types with their STAB moves, but must be wary of Ghost-type priority, as well as switching in. Finally, Ghost-types are immune to Fighting and Normal, so any Fighting- or Normal-types without coverage for Ghost types, like Breloom and Hawlucha, are threatened by Ghost-types.
What sorts of Pokemon threaten many of the members of this type?
Ghost-types are most threatened by Dark-types. Dark-types hit Ghost-types super effectively with their STAB moves and resist the STAB moves of Ghost-types. However, they do have to worry about Focus Blast, which is a common move on some Ghost-types. There are three common Dark-type moves in OU: Knock Off, Pursuit, and Sucker Punch, that all threaten Ghost-types. Other moves, like Crunch, Foul Play, and Dark Pulse, are rarer but still threatening. Also, Normal-types are immune to Ghost-type moves, so if a Ghost-type lacks a Fighting-type coverage move, and the Normal-type can hurt the Ghost-type, it's in for some trouble.
What sorts of metagame trends have occurred to the many Pokemon in this type?
At the beginning of the generation, Steel lost its resistance to Ghost, which has allowed it to become a much better attacking type. However, currently Pursuit, Sucker Punch, and Knock Off are all very common, limiting Ghost-types' effectiveness. Also, specially defensive Gliscor is on the rise, which hurts Aegislash, Gengar, and Chandelure.

What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?
What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?

How do these Pokemon compare to each other in their respective roles?
Aegislash is a very powerful offensive Pokemon that can go both specially and physically offensive. Gengar and Chandelure are primarily stallbreakers, but pack quite a punch, and are always specially offensive. Likewise, Banette is used mostly for support, but can pack quite a punch with Knock Off. Cofagrigus and Sableye are dependent on their abilities to be effective, while Gourgeist-XL and Gourgeist-S get by due to their typing and movepool.
How strong do you feel this type is as a whole?
The Ghost-type is very strong in OU. Only two types resist/are immune to its STAB moves, and Ghost only has two weaknesses to worry about. It however does hate how common the moves Pursuit, Sucker Punch, and Knock Off are, which all limit its effectiveness.

 

[Cornonjacob]

• What are the most popular Pokemon of this type seen in OU?
  Definitely Gengar and Aegislash. Aegislash takes a bit of skill, but in theory it has godlike defense and offense at the same time, and priority, and it has a wide variety of movesets, leaving it with no super counter. Gengar runs a good substall set, but like Latios, it can also run a nasty scarf or specs set with trick, and/or if you're feeling particularly devilish, Destiny Bond.
  
• What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
  I feel like Sableye can still have a good run in 6th gen, despite now actually having a type weakness. Mega Sableye looks interesting in the future too. The classic prankster set from last gen should suit it fine, but with max SpDef investment instead of mixed. Prankster Taunt is always valued. Trick Iron Ball isn't going to work this gen, but you can now at least run Knock Off if you want to mess with items. Mega Banette also has a nice niche, and is particularly good in stall teams. A very very high attack Shadow Sneak is a strong revenge killer, it can spread status and shut down supports and walls with Will-O-Wisp and Taunt like Sableye, and it is the only Pokemon in the game to boast a priority Destiny Bond. It's usefulness is slightly hindered by game mechanics, since it doesn't get priority on the turn it mega evolves, but it's still a viable option.
  
• What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?
  Trevenant. It's tanky and has a good defensive typing, and it's Sitrus Berry Harvest combo is infuriating. It can also subseed and spread the burns around.
  
• What sorts of Pokemon does this type collectively threaten?
  Psychics, especially since the half Steel ones no longer resist them.
  
• What sorts of Pokemon threaten many of the members of this type?
  Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Greninja immediately come to mind. Like Psychics, they're also vulnerable to a good Pursuit user.
  
• What sorts of metagame trends have occurred to the many Pokemon in this type?
• Steels lost their resistance, which has made Ghost a much better offensive threat, particularly SpecsBall spamming Gengar and Chandelure, but Dark type also got a big boost, the popularity of Sucker Punch and the large Knock Off buff. Ghosts tend to use special attacks, and Assault Vest has turned some guys like Conkeldurr and Excadrill into major threats.
  
• What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?
  Gengar, Chandelure, Aegislash, Mega Banette
  
• What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?
  Trevenant, Gourgeists, Sableye, Jellicent
  
• How do these Pokemon compare to each other in their respective roles?
  The offensive pokemon like to take advantage of their now steel unhindered Shadow Balls, the defensive ones like to take advantage of their typings and abilities (Prankster, Water Absorb, Harvest...). They all generally also appreciate having Will O Wisp.
  Shame there aren't more fast offensive ghosts on the physical side.
  
• How strong do you feel this type is as a whole?
  Ghosts are a force to be reckoned with, but they're the scarcest type and many of them only occupy very small niches, such as Trevenant and Cofagrigus. Mostly I only see Gengar and Aegislash (which some crybabies are trying to ban), and that makes me sad.
  Ghost/Ground bulky physical attacker mummy possible Yamask alternate evolution Pokemon Gamefreak pls.
  Sorry I don't know how to put the little pokemon icons into the post like the guy above me.

 

[ab15]

• What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?
  Trevenant, Gourgeists, Sableye, Jellicent

Because of Knock off and Dark not being resisted by steal why would a ghost type be a defensive threat. I have tried Jelicent but I was having to much trouble. Who would you pair a defensive ghost type with?
I think Sableye is different mainly because of it's ability ( + dark is even neutral).

 

[Cornonjacob]

Because of Knock off and Dark not being resisted by steal why would a ghost type be a defensive threat. I have tried Jelicent but I was having to much trouble. Who would you pair a defensive ghost type with?
I think Sableye is different mainly because of it's ability ( + dark is even neutral).

I'm confused on what steel has to do with this. Jellicent hasn't been good this gen, but I still feel he deserves a mention. Sableye is more of a support but it can wall a good amound of pokes.
I'd pair Ghosts with Chansey because one is immune to fighting and the other is immune to ghosts, or Fairy because they beat dark and Ghosts resist poison. Those two immediately come to mind.

 

[ab15]

I'm confused on what steel has to do with this. Jellicent hasn't been good this gen, but I still feel he deserves a mention. Sableye is more of a support but it can wall a good amound of pokes.

Steel has a lot to do with this because now dark moves are now a lot more common and useful , just look at Bisharps and tyranitar. Dark pokemon could now spam their dark attacks more now that a steel pokemon can't just be thrown out and resist them.
Furthermore because of Darks buff more people will be running knock off which also got a major buff, and all that puts more pressure on ghost Pokmeon.
[/quote]

I'd pair Ghosts with Chansey because one is immune to fighting and the other is immune to ghosts, or Fairy because they beat dark and Ghosts resist poison. Those two immediately come to mind.

Chansey is not a bad idea but Blissey would be better because she won't get hit so hard if she gets hit by a knockoff ( which is pretty much coming if the opponent has it). Chansey is much worse with out her evolite.

 

[Cornonjacob]

Steel has a lot to do with this because now dark moves are now a lot more common and useful , just look at Bisharps and tyranitar. Dark pokemon could now spam their dark attacks more now that a steel pokemon can't just be thrown out and resist them.
Furthermore because of Darks buff more people will be running knock off which also got a major buff, and all that puts more pressure on ghost Pokmeon.

True, but they can still be used on defense successfully, Aegislash and Sableye are probably the best examples (though for Sableye it's because he can recover right away and burn, he's more of a support, but he can still wall some pokemon pretty well and is neutral to dark).
Actually Ghosts would probably work well with Dark itself because Dark resists itself and Ghost types, and kills them. Ghosts are immune to Fighting and resist Bug for Dark types. If the Ghost type is Aegislash, it also works against Fairy.

 

[ab15]

Actually Ghosts would probably work well with Dark itself because Dark resists itself and Ghost types, and kills them. Ghosts are immune to Fighting and resist Bug for Dark types. If the Ghost type is Aegislash, it also works against Fairy.

Not a bad idea, maybe something like Dusknoir and Mandibuzz.
Will try to test it out.

Aegislash is pretty much on his way out now so I don't think discussing him would help ghost pokemon, plus again Aegislash is a huge exception because of his ability and steel typing.
With Aegislash gone (ghost is super on ghost) maybe other ghost types would become more useful either defensively or offensively.

 

[Cornonjacob]

Not a bad idea, maybe something like Dusknoir and Mandibuzz.
Will try to test it out.

Aegislash is pretty much on his way out now so I don't think discussing him would help ghost pokemon, plus again Aegislash is a huge exception because of his ability and steel typing.
With Aegislash gone (ghost is super on ghost) maybe other ghost types would become more useful either defensively or offensively.

If we aren't talking a defensive core here, Aegislash would be a good dark half of the core because it murders fairies and it's got some nice tricks up it's sleeve. And it's high physical attack would complement the special attack power of ghosts, such as Gengar.
And of course Dark works well with Ghost, they haven't had a type weakness until Fairies.