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OU Volt/Turn

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Sacaen, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. Sacaen

    Sacaen

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    91
    Well, this will be my 2nd RMT, and I've been pretty happy with it's success so far (possibly moreso because of how fun volt turn is to play, rather than it's win/loss ratio). I have wanted to make a volt/turning team for a while now and honestly I don't know why it has taken me this long to do it. As much as I would like to claim this team to be something unique or new it is a relatively generic volt/turn team with standard pokemon using standard sets, however with that in mind I feel that it could have a lot of room to improve.

    Without further ado:

    [​IMG]
    Kill Switch (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers ----> Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 184 HP / 176 Spd / 148 SAtk --------> 252 hp /4 def / 252 SpD
    Modest Nature ------------------------------> Calm
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split ----------------------------------> Rest

    This guy is usually my lead. He threatens a large number of pokes simply because of his typing alone. Rotom-W is a standard in almost any volt-turn team so, along with Scizor, he was a natural place to start. Rotom is also a very strong check to rain teams which can otherwise be very painful for my team to fight. He brilliantly takes many hits for the team such as fire attacks for scizor, ice attacks for xatu, sally, and landorus, and many other common attacks such as Tornadus's hurricane, scizor's BP, and a multitude of water attacks that flood the metagame. Volt Switch allows him to keep momentum for the team. Hydro Pump being the only water type attack (and lacking any ice type moves) is very essential for checking pokemon such as landorus and gliscor as well as hitting many other threats hard, especially if boosted by an opposing politoed. Will-O-Wisp helps to cripple physical attackers when it manages to not miss and Pain Split gives Rotom-W much needed recovery to keep doing it's job as long as possible. Without Rotom-W, this team wouldn't function.

    [​IMG]
    Volke (Scizor) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef ----> 248 hp, 252 atk, 8 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Another standard to this playstyle and forming the second half of the volt/turn core is scizor. Aside from the sheer power behind scizor's attacks and utility, scizor also brings much needed resistances to ghost, dark, grass, ice, bug, and dragon, all of which threaten the other members of the team. Everyone should know what Scizor does, but just to elaborate, Bullet Punch checks many threats being the only priority move on team picking off many weakened or frail pokemon. U-Turn is obviously necessary to provide scouting and momentum and knock off large chunks of hp from anything that doesn't resist it. Superpower can destroy common switch ins like Heatran when predicted properly and can deal huge damage to many other things that it hits neutrally or super effectively providing great coverage with bug/steel/dark moves. Pursuit can sometimes be more of a novelty than anything else as many common pursuit targets such as alakazam, espeon, gengar, and latios need to be scouted for hidden power fire and as such usually eat a bullet punch anyways. It is still useful if it is revealed that they do not have HP Fire.

    [​IMG]
    Twinkies (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 244 Def / 64 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Landorus-T is the third member of the voltturn team. Aside from being an amazing check to nearly every physical attacker in the tier (even if it means just coming in to intimidate then switching to scizor or Rotom to eat the ice punch), he also provides Stealth Rock which helps wear down the opposing team much faster with the number of switches that voltturning causes. Even without heavy investment, Earthquake hits insanely hard with STAB coming off 145 base attack. Stone Edge hits everything that EQ cannot hit and helps it check Dragonite and other airborne threats. U-Turn is what differentiates him from other physical walls/SR layers in that it allows him to keep momentum for the team.

    [​IMG]
    Prophet (Xatu) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 56 Spd / 204 Def
    Bold Nature
    - U-turn
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roost
    - Reflect

    Xatu is my antihazard, antistatus, and in general antistall poke. While he cannot do much offensively (often not being able to do more damage than leftovers recovers), he makes for a great pivot, bouncing back hazards and status, and crippling switch ins with thunder wave or setting up reflect. Paralysis support is highly appreciated on this team as Scizor (as well as the rest of the team) likes to be able to move first so that they may voltturn out of impending doom instead of having to actually switch out. Xatu stops cold many defensive pokemon and can cripple or set up on them before sending in Gothitelle to trap and kill them (minimizing the risk to gothitelle so that she may trap multiple foes).

    Only one SR weakness (salamence), only one Toxic Spikes weakness (gothitelle), and only 2 spikes weaknesses (gothitelle, scizor) means that the team is generally very safe from getting worn down by hazards if for some reason Xatu isn't able to block them. This is important because of how much switching occurs and relieves stress from Xatu.


    [​IMG]
    Lady (Gothitelle) (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Trick
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Probably the biggest reason this team has been successful at all, Gothitelle is a great trapper that breaks down and removes the walls that would otherwise give this team headaches. Ferrothorn and Forretress get destroyed by HP-Fire. Skarmory, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Tentacruel, Slowbro, and non-choiced politoeds get destroyed by thunderbolt (choiced varients get severely crippled, but gothitelle loses to them). Psychic, while less used, provides a consistant stab option, although her main purpose usually involves removing threats that are weak to thunderbolt or HP-Fire. Trick completes the set crippling walls that otherwise don't care about her attacks such as blissey and chansey.

    [​IMG]
    Steve (Salamence) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SAtk / 252 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast

    This spot originally belonged to a scald/rapid spin/hail/recover Starmie. And while being able to remove weather after their inducers were foddered off or gothitrapped as well as remove hazards that got by Xatu, it left me often feeling that the team was running on only 4 actual pokemon (rotom, scizor, lando, and goth) and if any of those were killed off I'd be in an even worse position as starmie couldn't make up for the lost offense. Starmie also compounded my weaknesses (3 psychics on the same team wasn't good), so I first looked to Jirachi as a scarfer, giving me another U-Turner and some better resists, but it didn't really hit hard enough to be a real threat on it's own. I thought about using Hydreigon, using voltturn to get him safely and then destroying whatever tried to switch into him, but the spot ended up going to Scarf Salamence.

    After Gothitelle removes the steel types (bar a few, like jirachi), cripples any walls, and the rest of the team has worn down everything else, Salamence is usually set to sweep and he cleans up very nicely. Salamence is sort of like inssurance... guaranteeing that even if they wear me down just as fast or faster than I can to them, I can still come back. He is also a great check/revenge killer to +1 dragonite and other threats that may have nabbed a boost.


    *****
    Some replays of the team in action, most were from before I added Salamence, some after.
    Show Hide
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent7156189 voltturn VS trick room
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent7199877 voltturn vs Hippo Sand
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent7278034 voltturn vs rain offense
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent7337126 voltturn vs random / trapping
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent7594308 voltturn vs rain dance (postsally)
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oucurrent7598493 voltturn vs rain offense (postsally)


    Looking forward to hearing comments/suggestions/criticism!
  2. Alexander.

    Alexander.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,836
    Hi,

    Nice team you have here anyway let's start with the rate!

    First of all, your team is weak to rain team because you haven't a solid switch into Hurricanes and water moves like Surf and Hydro Pump. Rotom-W is running an offensive EV spread so it will die in two or three hits and Pain Split isn't reliable recovery move. To solve this weakness, I suggest you to change Rotom-W's set into a Special Defensive ChestoRest one. I will post its set below in this same rate anyway a Special Defensive EV spread allows Rotom-W to tank better some strong special attacks from Tornadus-T and Keldeo for example, and Rest in combination of Chesto Berry is a better recovery move than Pain Split. Then, on Gothitelle I'd use Grass Know, replacing Hidden Power Fire. It allows to KO Hippowdon which can be a little problem for this team because it blocks Scizor, Landorus-T, Salamence and Xatu can't do anything against it. Now that you haven't Hidden Power Fire on Gothitelle, Scizor, Skarmory and Forretress can give some problem to your team, therefore I suggest you to use Heat Wave, replacing Thunder Wave on Xatu. Heat Wave allows to hit hard Skarmory and to KO Scizor and Forretress, Thunder Wave otherwise isn't a very useful move for your team because it has already one Choice Scarf user and one priority user. Finally, on Scizor I'd use only 248 EVs in HP to take less damages from Stealth Rock and Spikes, that can be useful in many chances. You can put the remainder 4 EVs wherever you want.

    That's about your team. Here's the set you should use:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Rest
    - Thunder Wave
    - Hydro Pump


    Good luck, I hope I helped!
  3. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Hi, there

    You're a bit 'weak to Rain Team, in particular T-Tornadus with Hurricane, and you do not have revenue of Mamoswine, which can make you very sick, the only way you would have to lock it Bullet Punch Scizor just to solve these two problems, one need only change the moveset for Rotom-W in the moveset Specially Defensive.
    Looking at the rest of the team, I suggest 248 Evs in HP Scizor to suffer less damage from Stealth Rock and Spikes, moving the remaining 4 evs, along with 4 special defense evs put in, all 8 in speed, this is to be faster than other Scizor or at least play for a tie speed in the case of a 1 vs 1 without suffering to force the Superpower decided to go and maybe KO.
    On Xatu suggest Rocky Helmet> Leftovers, to do damage to the various physical attackers who hit Xatu, for example the fight moves, so to recover HP have Roost.
    For Gothitelle instead would make some changes, first Psychock> Psychic, so it can afford to kill annoying special wall such as Blissey, Chansey and Amoonguss, then I do not understand what's the trick, the work of Gothitelle is simply to kill the Pokemon that does not run, i see the trick quite useless, since the Wall Special, with Psychock, kills them, and those physicists go KO with other moves. So put Grass Knot> Trick, with whom you make sure to kill Hippowdon with Stealth Rock septate. That is all.
    Good luck, with your team!

    Set
    Show Hide

    Rocky Helmet > Leftovers (for Xatu)
    Psychock > Psychic (for Gothitelle)
    Grass Knot (fot Gothitelle)
    248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd (for Scizor)

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Pain Split
  4. Sacaen

    Sacaen

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    91
    @Alexander:
    I'll test out the chestorest Rotom-W. I haven't actually had any trouble with Tornadus-T with this team yet, but Keldeo is a huge threat to this team, so preserving rotom's health to check it is important.

    I find it interesting though that you say that thunderwave isn't a very useful move on this team and then suggest it on Rotom's set. On the contrary I'd say paralysis support is very helpful, especially for Scizor as well as Landorus, Xatu, and Rotom (I mentioned this in the OP). Paralysis support is also a big reason that Tornadus-T hasn't really been a big threat to this team yet, as I often find it switching into and getting paralyzed by Xatu. Paralyzed Torn-T = minimal threat.

    Hp Fire on gothitelle ensures that most of Salamences threats get removed so that it can sweep late game. It basically means gothitelle can do nearly everything a magnezone can, and more. If anything I would use grass knot for Gastrodon, but Hippowdon is simply a non threat. Rotom can 2HKO with hydro pump or burn it with WoW and Xatu can wall it and stall out it's stone edges while preventing SR.

    I'll make the changes to Scizor's EVs as well, I didn't realize it was a SR/Spikes number.

    @Mr.Green:
    Mamoswine is a big threat to Sally and Lando, but Rotom and Scizor usually handle it fine, it's not as high up on the list as say, Keldeo or Venusaur are for this team.

    Torn-T described above.

    Rocky Helmet on Xatu? Maybe. I don't like to roost off residual damage if at all possible, as it gives the opponent free chances to switch in without getting paralyzed, but I could try it as Xatu has essentially zero damage output otherwise.

    Psyshock Gothitelle will not be beating Chansey any day soon and it doesn't need psyshock to manhandle Amoonguss either (Xatu is the proper switch in to Amoonguss anyway to bounce the spore)

    A tricked blissey or chansey is fodder to the 3 physical attackers on my team, Gothi doesn't need to kill it, and leaving gothitelle in to actually kill blissey/chansey lets them wear gothitelle down, meaning it might not be able to check something else. Gothitelle is usually able to kill 1-2 pokes and trick another, It's a very good deal. Trick is also insurance against CM/BU stat boosters, other eviolite users, or walls that Gothi can't beat 1 on 1. Trick is staying. (I'd encourage playing this set first)


    I'll definitely be testing out changes to Rotom-W. Since it is such an integral member of the team I really need it to last as long as humanly possible, so I will definitely be trying to go for that.
  5. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,122
    Hi there.

    First of all, your team is weak to rain team because you haven't a solid switch into Hurricanes and water moves like Surf and Hydro Pump. Rotom-W is running an offensive EV spread so it will die in two or three hits and Pain Split isn't reliable recovery move. To solve this weakness, I suggest you to change Rotom-W's set into a Special Defensive.
    Now you can come easily on Tornadus-T/Landorus Spec and Rain Teams, then I see that you are very disadvantaged against Thundurus-T you have nothing to kill easily, Thundurus is 2HKO by Outrage of Salamence and if he has Agility you cant kill him, Salamence is outspeed and Scizor is 2HKO by Thunder/Thunder-Bolt, Rotom-W also, then I see that you are very disadvantaged against Rotom-W, you have nothing to tank his Volt Switch, Landorus can take a Will-O-Wisp or a Hydropump, Salamence can take a Will-O-Wisp and Rotom-W is 2HKO by psychic of Gothitelle and it has paint split to heal, I suggest you put Blissey on Gothitelle, Blissey is a very good pokemon for your team, it can easily come on Thundurus-T/Rotom-W and it has softboiled to heal, then it is a good counter against the Sun Teams, I suggest you swap Thunder Wave with Heat Wave on Xatu, now you can come on Ferrothorn-Skarmory-Forretress without problem.

    Blissey (open)
    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Seismic Toss
    - Softboiled
    - Aromatherapy


    Rotom-W (open)
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 180 SDef / 56 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Rotom--->Specially Defensive
    Gothitelle--->Blissey
    Xatu--->Heat Wave


    Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your Team.
  6. CedOmega

    CedOmega

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    You have an interesting team here, Sacaen.

    That said, I'm noticing your team is just slightly weak to Sp.Attacks, especially Ice(x3 weaknesses). I feel that your team would really appreciate U-Turn/Reflect>LightScreen on Xatu to help Salamence and Landorus-T come in on alot more Sp.Attacks. Reflect only further benefits your Pokemon on the defensive side, however, you have 2 Defensive and no Sp.Defensive pokemon on your team. Thats said, it stands to reason that LightScreen would add more bulk and allow your team to come in alot more on said attack types.

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Xatu@LightClay/RockHelmet
    Trait: MagicGuard
    248 Hp/204 Def/56 Spd
    Roost, U-Turn/LightScreen, Reflect/LightScreen & T-Wave


    So far, it's all I can see that could help for now. Good luck with the team & I hope this helped! :)​
  7. Sacaen

    Sacaen

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    91
    @CedOmega, I'll give Light Screen a shot on Xatu. Xatu definitely has 4MSS, so we'll see how that goes.

    @Leftiez, I have a difficult time seeing Blissey be anything but counterproductive to this team, as blissey typically loses momentum and this team is centered around the opposite. I changed Rotom's set to specially defensive chestorest, so that will hopefully start to patch up my special weakness. Xatu doesn't really need heat wave because all of heat waves targets can be removed by gothitelle.


    Thanks again for all the ideas everyone, it's really helping me to identify and fix the weaknesses to this team.

    I would like to hear people's opinions on Salamence. Do you think it's the right 'mon for the job? I.E. scarfer to clean up when everything is weakened and the appropriate threats are gothitrapped? Would something else work better? Hydreigon/Rachi/Terrakion/Keldeo/???

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