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OU Weatherless

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by BlankZero, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    [​IMG]

    Hey folks! This is probably my second or third RMT on here. This one turned into something of an HO team with no Dragons or Genesect, no Terrakion, no Scarfers (or any Choicers for that matter), and most importantly, NO WEATHER! I hate weather teams. They make me absolutely crazy, and I can't work them at all. they just feel so gimmicky to me that I just can't do it. Sand Teams have been the closest I've come to workable weather, but I just don't like it, and I'd rather use Weather to screw up other users.

    Anyhow, this team has slowly come together as I've tried other teams, stolen a few ideas here and there, trial, error, etc. I think now, I have a fun team, and I hope if it isn't, I can get some good feedback on it.

    Now, onto the team!

    Oh, and I usually put hide tags on everything to make this a bit smaller for the Phone users and the "Whole-Post" Quoters.​


    Team at a Glance:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Teambuilding Process
    Show Hide

    I wanted a team to do well in the current OU, as well as an OU without Genesect, which seems to be coming down the chute. Called it!

    I started with one of my favorite Pokemon since returning to Pokemon after quitting back during Sapphire: Mamoswine!

    [​IMG]

    Mamoswine is just a ballsy pokemon. 130 Base Attack and a STAB Priority that just murders almost every dragon in the game. after decding to build a basic team around it, I had to come up with 5 more pokemon. I decided to go with a good 2 partners for him in Heatran and Gyarados.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now I had 2/3 of a good offensive FWG Core, so I added in my favorite Grass offense, Breloom.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, I needed Hazards. Looking at my team, I have only Gyarados who is really weak to rocks, so I debated a Spinner, but decided against it, and went with the best Setter in the game, Deo-D.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    And finally, I didn't want my hazards to go to waste, nor did I want to lose this HO-type setup I had going, so I went with Deo-D's favorite Partner, and my favorite Gen 1 Pokemon, Gengar.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After some playing around, I found that Kingdra made more sense over Gyarados, merely for Swift Swim to destroy rain teams, with only Dragon as a weakness.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    And then, I had some breakthroughs. After a few tests and such, I made some more changes. Namely, trading Kingdra for Keldeo and Gengar for Alakazam.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    And there it is! My team as it stands! Now for the more in-depth look.



    The sets behind the faces:

    [​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower
    - Icicle Spear

    Meet my take on LO Jolly Mamo. While Mamo is a higher speed tier than its mortal enemy, Breloom, I've been seeing quite a few more Jollys running around, and Jolly Breloom outspeeds Adamant Mamo unfortunately. Ice Shard, even from Jolly Mamo, still OHKOs just about every single one of the heavy hitter dragons, including Sally, Hax, Chomp, and even DNite if rocks are up, and murderizes the Therians after Rocks too, and Lando without them. It can also really hurt Lati@s. Superpower for Ferrothorn, Cube, and any other Ice types trying to come in on Mamo. EQ is STAB and can snag Terrakion and Jirachi on the switch. Icicle Spear is for those pesky SubTox Gliscors and Whimsicott that I see pop up every now and again.


    [​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Magma Storm
    - Sunny Day
    - Solar Beam

    Hard hitting, Steel-typed, Fire Absorbing, Genesect-Beating, absolute nightmare to sun teams, etc, etc, etc. BalloonTran is just too much fun. throw on Sunny Day and Solar Beam and you have the BEST Politoed Lure in the game. Send it out versus their Ferrothorn, then prep a Sunny Day. They swap, change weather, and you change it back. Fire off your no-charge Solar Beam and eat them alive. Magma Storm traps weathers and HP Ice is for checking and killing Dragons. So very anti-weather, but it works.


    [​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Keldeo-Resolution @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Secret Sword
    - Surf

    Keldeo is my answer to rain should Heatran fall. CM makes him hit so very hard. 4 HP for a Leftovers number, Fighting/Water STAB and HP Ghost for Jellicient, who would wall the SubCM set. I had ChestoRest Kingdra in this spot, but he didn't hit nearly hard enough, nor have the staying power I wanted, even with Rest.


    [​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Breloom @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch
    - Spore
    - Swords Dance

    Lum Berry for a bad predict versus Espeon? I'll take that. Other wise, standard SD Techniloom. It sleeps something, SDs once (more if they stay in) and proceed to start punching holes in things. Jolly to Outspeed Jolly Mamoswine (My Jolly Mamo is to outspeed Adamant Breloom), but otherwise, standard set. Mach Punch kills everything but bulky stuff. Bullet seed for decent coverage. The only thing that walls this and counters it is Celebi or Tornadus-T. Also, Moltres in the rain destroys it, but that's a (thankfully) rare sight. I'm not 100% on his item though. It has been everything from LO, to Sash (thanks for that set CTC and GTG), to Lum Berry. Now using Fighting Gem for a fast Wallbreaking Mach Punch, but I'm not sure if I like it, and I hated LO for the recoil, making me very susceptible to revenge killing.


    [​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Deoxys-Defense @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spe / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes

    TauntBait? Yes. Awesome Setter? Oh yeah. This guy is fun. Taunt for Forry/Ferro, Red Card for Genesect/Scizor Dual Hazards for Maximum Pain on switching, and Max Speed for Super Fast Taunt. TWave makes whatever they switch in for their now-useless hazard setter very upset (usually something fast or setup-sweeper typed). This guy hates faster Taunts, like the increasingly popular Suicide-Aerodactyl Lead I keep seeing.


    [​IMG]
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    Alakazam @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Replacing Gengar with Sash-Alakazam after being shown my glaring ScarfTerrakion/SuckerPunch Rain Toxicroak weakness. Psyshock OHKOs both after eating down to my sash. He's also a great Hole-Puncher, being immune to hazards/sand/hail, checking Starmie, and just being a fast, all-around badass with a glorious mustache.


    So far, I'm doing very well with this team, but I'm always looking for suggestions to making it better, and for blatant call-outs for its weaknesses.

    Thanks in advance!

    Importable
    Show Hide

    Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower
    - Icicle Spear

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Magma Storm
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam

    Keldeo-Resolution @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Secret Sword
    - Surf

    Breloom @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch
    - Spore
    - Swords Dance

    Deoxys-Defense @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes

    Alakazam @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
  2. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Threat List Under Construction

    For now, I only see Jirachi as a big threat, as well as rain teams where I can't get the rain down. Tornadus-T rips apart quite a bit of my team without trying, and only Mamo can really check him. But Jirachi is a pain all by itslef. Haxxy and Iron Head is SE on Mamo, one of the only things that can check it with EQ in the rain. I can play around him, but god he's annoying.
  3. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Earthquake does more to Terrakion than Superpower. Why would you ever use it to "catch him on the switch"?
    You don't have anything that can switch-in on Starmie(this team really hates Starmie) or anything with pretty good coverage on the special side.
    I would suggest taking off Gyarados for Dragon Dance Kingdra. Kingdra is only weak to Dragon, so it won't be forced out by things like Starmie or Rotom W(it can actually boost on them).
    Either way, you should really change your Heatran set. Gyarados and Kingdra both like to abuse rain and Breloom doesn't mind it either. Sunny Day only really helps Mamoswine and Heatran while hurting others.
  4. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    I hadn't even thought about using DDance Kingdra actually! I'll definitely try it out!

    What move should I use on Mamo over Superpower? I was thinking maybe Hail as an Anti-Weather move and then I can mess with Tran's set. Maybe a more standard BaloonTran set? What would you suggest?

    Here's what I'll try:

    [​IMG]
    Kingdra @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 112 SAtk / 144 Spe
    Lonely Nature
    -Outrage
    -Waterfall
    -Hidden Power [Fire]
    -Dragon Dance

    and I'll trade Superpower on Mamoswine for Hail, as well as trading Sunny Day/Solar Beam for HP Grass/Taunt.
  5. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

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    If you want, you could put SR on Mamo over Superpower, which would allow you to get rid of SR on Deo-D for Recover, Toxic, Night Shade, or whatever you want. Those three are probably your best options, but Magic Coat is also viable.
  6. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Superpower is still fine for ferro, balloontran, blobs, and lots of other things, just not terrakion lol
    But SR works well too. I actually think you shouldn't use hail because the team is called weatherless and your team is already anti weather.
    Is HP fire and EV investment really worth it? Most ferro you meet will be in rain anyway and you can use anything else on your team for ferro. You could use the standard chestoresto set which is amazing imo
    Also, I think deo-d and breloom are more banworthy than genesect or any dragon by far... But that's whatever and I don't think any of them should actually be banned anyway
  7. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Ferro Hardwalls almost anything Kingdra throws out at it, bar HP Fire. Makes it almost necessary.

    Rocks are working well actually, with Nightshade on Deo-D.
  8. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Hey I got your request to rate, so here I am.

    It's (aesthetically) weird not seeing Deoxys-D not in the first spot for a HO team lol. But regarding your Deoxys, you should really run max speed on it so that you can get up as many hazards as possible against slower pokemon. Deoxys has enough bulk to take hits really well without any defensive investment so those spdef EVs aren't really that necessary. Bug Buzz on Genesect is not AS common anymore and if you're that scared of it you can always lead with something else. With Speed EVs you can outspeed something like DD nite and taunt it before it sets up or set up extra layers against something like Mamoswine. You could also give it low kick with fight gem so that you OHKO Banded TTAR that want to limit your hazards. Psychic is really not the best attacking option. If anything go with Psycho Boost for Tentacruels that want to spin away your hazards.

    Additionally, I would replace HP GRass on heatran for hp ice. I'm not sure what you're trying to hit with hp grass, but HP ICe on balloon heatran is standard for a reason. You essentially become set up fodder for dragons with heatran against dragons, which is definitely not a good idea, especially if mamo is weakened.
  9. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    I'll definitely give these a try. A faster Deo D should work well, and I'll try boost.

    I like HP grass for water/ground switch ins. It's helped against other mamo and Starmie on the switch, but I'll give HP ice a shot too.
  10. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
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    Hi, since I used Gengar Deoxys-D core with some success, I feel like I could give you my opinion on the subject !

    First, the Gengar set you're using, I don't like it. Tentacruel beats it, and this pokemon can mess with you team pretty well overall.
    Moreover, the use of both Sash Breloom and Deoxys-D seems contradictory to me. Deoxys-D is here meant to be the leader, Sash Breloom got exactly the same role. This is why you're not able to make a good use of the Sash.
    Moreover your Heatran set seems also weird to me. It is supposed to beat Genesect and Sun teams, but you're weak to the U-Turn Duggy combo. Basically in fact, against well built Sun team, your Heatran can't do his job well.

    Here are my changes !

    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Destiny Bond

    Breloom @ Life Orb
    252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Low Kick
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed

    Why Adamant and not Jolly? people pick jolly to beat Tornadus-T since you can outspeed it after Low Kick.
    [WITH SR] But with LO Adamant you have a chance of killing it with Mach Punch after a Low Sweep. And the kill is garanteed if Tornadus-T took some previous damage (basically if it's a LO Tornadus-T it's dead).
    With Jolly you need to have to Low Kick, then hit 3 times with Bullet Seed. It's still a gamble anyway.
    So it's up to you, but the Adamant boost is not negligible.

    Deoxys-D
    252 HP / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature

    This is mandatory, your team NEEDS fast Taunter.
    I'd change Psychic for Magic Coat or Twave since it's pretty useless on Deoxys-D.
    4 Def to give a SpA to the Scarf Genesect who starts the match. I don't see the use of Red Card, make a RP Genesect go back? You can kill it with Gengar Focus Sash and HP Fire now, so it's not useful anymore.

    I'd also change Heatran for a Scarf Version. With SR up you kill Dugtrio before it kills you so you patch this issue, and you're still able to beat Genesect anyway.
    But you seem to avoid Choice Items for some reason. You can use and abuse priority as much as you want, some pokemons will still set-up/outspeed and kill a large part of the team.


    Finally, I'd really encourage to find a room for a Pursuiter. I don't know why but I'd put Scizor on Breloom. This way you can trap and kill Starmie since it's the only spinner on whom Gengar can't switch-in and take out with Destiny Bond.
    I play Weavile for this matter on my team, but you got Mamoswine and I don't want to break your team's starting point.
    Moreover you need something for the Magic Bouncers. Weavile outspeed them and Pursuit, I believe Scizor only KO them with 2 Bullet Punch, before they kill you with Heat Wave/Hp Fire. Here it's all about the mind game, but you need something for them. If you want to play Gengar and Deoxys-D, to me a Pursuiter is a must.
    So you can go for a Scarf Scizor, it can seem weird, but it works, and you can outspeed Starmie max Speed if you go max Speed too. You should get some easy surprise kills on Xatu/Espeon. Then you kill Starmie/Espeon with Bug Bite :>
    Yes this seems totally random, but I don't see many options, being able to 0HKO Starmie and Espeon seem to be a good start. Xatu is quite harder to take, but you got other tools for that.

    I hope this helped


    EDIT : Don't change SuperPower on Mamoswine. I don't think Hail goes well on him, but if you had to do it, go for Ice Shard / EQ / Hail / SuperPower.
    The only use for Superpower is to kill Ferrothorn, there is NOTHING else that justifies its use. It's up to you, do you need it ? Else take Icicle Spear in my opinion. I don't like Stone Edge, the extra coverage is in fact absolutly useless, it does only hit Flying types not weak to Ice.. so in OU, only Gyarados could justify it. I'd rather get a strong stab that breaks substitutes.
  11. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    I'll give some of those a try. A few points though.

    Stone Edge on Mamo isn't for flying types so much as it is for Levitate users.

    I don't like life orb on Breloom either. It shortens its lifespan too much and after a swords dance or two, he can sweep teams phenomenally, even with just Mach Punch.

    I don't like choice locked Pokemon. They make for easy setup bait.

    Finally, I'd love to add a pursuiter, but I have no room, and I'd hate to lose my cores to try and fit it in.

    Thanks for the rate though, I will be trying some of these ideas.
  12. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hi. Your team, despite what the title said, seems to have large problems with one of the most common Rain abusers, Keldeo. Specs Keldeo can completely dismantle your team even in clear skies, since nothing can switch into Hydro Pump safely (Deo is 2HKO'd, Breloom is OHKO'd after some residual damage, or OHKO'd regardless with Secret Sword, and Kingdra is afraid as hell of Secret Sword, since it nearly OHKO's, and a neutral HP 2HKOs most of the times). Scarf is possibly even worse, since it outspeeds Kingdra in Rain and can use a +1 Hydro Pump exactly as Specs can do in clear skies. Kingdra can DD to outspeed, sure, but it's not even guaranteed to OHKO with +1 Outrage after SR, and after locking itself into it will be easily revenged / paralyzed / walled / whatever. To fix this I suggest replacing Breloom with Celebi. Hazards are going to ruin your Sash most of the times anyway, especially if coming from a fast Deo-D which can outspeed both Heatran and your own Deo. Celebi can take on Keldeo forever, LO Leaf Storm OHKOs 40% of the times even a Keldeo with 2 CMs under its belt, and it will provide useful support for the team in the form of paralysis, which is greatly appreciated by Heatran and Mamoswine: they can sweep much easily if the enemy team is slowed down. If LO is concerning you, just switch for Lefties: you lose a little power but gain resilience to your own Hail and a bit of survivability.

    Celebi (open)
    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Life Orb | Natural Cure
    Modest | 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
    - Leaf Storm
    - Psychic / Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire
    - Thunder Wave
    - Recover


    Some other little suggestions. If you want to invest so heavily in defenses and close to none in Speed on Deoxys-D, I suggest a moveset change to Spikes | Recover | Night Shade | Taunt / Magic Coat, since investing in bulk without Recover is not optimal at all to me. Magic Coat can be used to surprise fast Taunt users, since this set won't be outspeeding much anyway, but if you like Taunt for the ability to shut down set-up sweepers or such things then keep it by all means. Stealth Rock can be easily set-upped by Heatran, removing Taunt from its moveset: it's not much useful overall, and forcing things to attack and break your balloon seems...weird anyway. You can think about switching to Modest since you don't need the speed anymore to Taunt things, but this is debatable and it's in the end up to you. If you instead want to keep all of the hazards on Deoxys, the by all means switch to a Fast Spiker set, with 252 HP / 4 (S)Def / 252 Spe Timid, SR | Spikes | Taunt | Night Shade, that can accomplish its role much better.

    Hope my suggestions helped. Good luck.
  13. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Not sure how to use Celebi really. Might have to give it a go though, but wouldn't that make for more Pursuit bait?

    Changed to a fast spread on Deo-D as suggested. Thanks for that one, it REALLY helps out.

    Updated the OP for all my current changes.
  14. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    I like the Celebi idea, but I think Choice Specs would be better.
    Leaf Storm/Earth Power/HP Fire/Psychic(Or Recover/T-Wave here)
    It would take a little bit of prediction, but you should be able to nail any possible switch-in and have a lot of offensive pressure.
    Leaf Storm deals with Weavile/Tyranitar switch-ins, Earth Power deals with Heatran switch-ins, HP Fire deals with grass or Genesect/Scizor switch-ins, Psychic deals with Gengar and Tornadus/Thundurus I guess+STAB
    I've always enjoyed running Choice Specs Heatran to force switches, rack up hazard damage, and even nab surprise KOs(lol 1hkoing Rotom-W+Starmie all day). This Celebi could work in a similar fashion.
  15. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Like I said, I'm sure it would be good, but I would hate to lose my Terrakion check and I honestly don't know how to use it.
  16. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
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    Hi again, try to think about it deeper.
    Tell me, a levitating pokemon that isn't hit harder by Icicle Spear than by Stone Edge.
    I think there is only Rotom-W (Rotom-H/F) and.. Cryogonal LOL. And well Rotom-W could justify it, but the different is pretty low, and you won't let your Mamoswine on it in my opinion.. you won't even 2hKo the most played versions of Rotom-W anyway

    You shouldn't overlook these advices.

    For Breloom, you Spore someone, SD on the switch and you sweep, that's all.
    You're not supposed to take any hit. As your team goes, he seems to be the cleaner. But as you want. Then take a Fighting Gem. But the Lum Berry seems to be a waste here. Who will Will O Wisp you?
    Oh that's for a Magic Bouncer... an item for that? you should have the magic bouncer cleaned earlier, else it means your Deoxys-D done nothing and the game is not far from being lost in my opinion.

    "I don't like choice locked Pokemon. They make for easy setup bait."
    Please, this is really unfair to answer to something someone thought about like this.
    Let's say your Heatran is scarfed, he U-Turn to Duggy to trap and you kill it. You seriously think it's not worthy?
    Anyway, choice items are set-up bait when you play poorly with them.
    As said Ganj4lf a Scarf Keldeo will have fun here, is he a set-up bait for any of your pokemons?
    The most classic rain core Tornadus-T and Scarf Keldeo will seriously give you big troubles.
    Finally, if you play smart, the enemy isn't supposed to know that you Heatran is faster, until you give a killing blow or something like that on a pokemon faster. It's up to you to play the bluff game, don't blame the item. For instance, you can kill a Tornadus-t that thought he would have kill you with a hidden Scarf Heatran, or a Terrakion or.. many things.

    Just saying, there is something really counterproductive in here, you have two pokemons to change the weather in a weatherless team, and noone of them can set the weather for your main sweeper Kingdra.

    To me you gathered a pokemon to counter rain, a pokemon to counter sun, a pokemon to counter the dragnmag, a pokemon that everybody plays (breloom) and a Deoxys-D.
    Believe me or not you'll need to change a pokemon to make the team stronger.

    Scizor seems to fit the team pretty well, I don't know why you would not like it. On Mamoswine you lose absolutly nothing in the trade. He still hits dragons hard, with now Kyurem-B even harder.
    He can Pursuit also, and his resistance are so much better. If you don't like the choice band, go for the SD set.

    I also don't see what Kingdra does that Keldeo couldn't do.
  17. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Yeah it would make you a bit weak to it, but you still have options: if Tyranitar switches in, double switch to Kingdra, Mamoswine, hell even Gengar can OHKO many variants with Focus Blast. Or run Earth Power and 2HKO even Specially Defensive TTar with Earth Power + Leaf Storm after SR. If your concern is Scizor, HP Fire solves everything easily. No other Pursuit users are commonly seen in OU. You can even think about running 3 attacks + Recover if you're really that much concerned about coverage, although Thunder Wave tends to be a godsend in this fast paced meta, at least to my eyes.
  18. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Hi, cool team you have there!
    I like the dual priority and weather changing moves, but I think just sunny day alone would suffice. Mamoswine has much better moves to abuse like a stronger ice stab for balanced and stall, and superpower for rotom and ferro. You currently have nearly no switchins to rain threats like tornados, thunderus, and keldeo seeing as your entire team is 2hkoed by the appropriate move. I can't really recommend a remedy for that unless you change the structure of the team, but seeing as you have powerful priority you can always revenge with mamo or kingdra. I would recommend a bulky spread on kindra with rest over hidden power and a chesto berry. This effectively doubles kingdra's lifespan and helps a lot vs rain, and sets up on common rain walls bar ferrothorn. Seeing as literally everyone else on the team destroys ferro (If you implement the change on mamo), it shouldnt be a problem for kingdra. Besides, Hp fire would literally do nothing to it anyways since most are used in rain.
  19. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,839
    Thanks for the replies guys. I'll be trying scarf Heatran, celebi, and superpower on mamo again, at various times and combos.
  20. TheStriker

    TheStriker

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    117
    Hi BlankZero,

    I saw your team and has great synergy and checks Genesect pretty well. Like you said weather teams are annoying and same with me, I usually am best with sun but still but that is hard to run. This team completely checks rain teams and sun teams. Sandstorm and hail teams are iffy for you to counter. The prevous raters have made the team really good and there is no need to switch your pokemon then the synergy would fall apart. I have only one sugegstion and to change your Mamoswine's set:

    Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Trait: Thick Fat (or Snow Cloak if unbanned)
    Nature: Adamant
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Hail
    - Superpower

    Nice Team!
  21. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

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    1,415
    Cool team dude, sorry I'm a bit late on the request :)

    So first off, if you really want your Heatran to get rid of Politoeds, try Magma Storm over Fire Blast. Magma Storm traps any Pokemon it hits, making sure Politoed, or any other bulky water can't escape your Solar Beam.

    With Heatran removing bulky Water-types, Kingdra can have a lot of fun, but I want to recommend a different take. The set I suggest is:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Kingdra @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 152 HP / 140 Atk / 40 SDef / 176 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Waterfall
    - Rest


    You already have Heatran, and Breloom to take on Ferrothorn, so HP Fire is kind of a wasted slot on Kingdra. Kingdra has no problems setting up multiple DD's thanks to Rest and it no longer has to fear Scald burns, once again letting it see Bulky Waters as set up bait.

    I also recommend running Thunder Wave over Night Shade on Deoxys-D. Deoxys isn't there to do damage he is there to support and at the moment he is actually set up bait to any remotely fast sweeper. Thankfully Mamoswine takes care of the big contenders such as Landorus, Thundurus-T and Salamence. But an offensive Volcarona with HP Ground could do a lot of damage early game if it set up on Deoxys.

    Good Luck!
  22. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
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    1,839
    Thanks for the complements. I actually run both weather changers to screw with all 4 weathers. Sunny day is for everything except sun, while hail covers it. I'll swap back to superpower, but why bulky adamant over fast jolly? I like to outspeed all Breloom.
  23. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
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    I'm seeing a trend on the ChestoRest suggestions, so I'll try it out.

    Also, I was running nightshade to not be complete taunt bait on Deo, but I'll try twave too.

    As an update, I've yet to try Celebi, but I will, I promise.
  24. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude Different breed imo
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor

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    Hey man i got your request

    Looking at your team it seems like it Toxicroak can give you some troubles. With Drain Punch / Sucker Punch / Ice Punch / Swords Dance he can hit all but Kingdra for super effective damage while being able to get health back from Dry Skin and Drain Punch. He also gets a Swords Dance opurtunity on Breloom and ca also get one up on Deoxys-D if need be. Also if Breloom is gone Terrakion destroys your team. He can outspeed your whole team and do significant damage with Close Combat / Earthqauke / Stone Edge / X-Scissor. The Choice Band varaint is even more threatening seeing as nothing outspeeds it barring Kingdra in rain and he gets a attack boost in his moves letting him plow through your team easy. Although you probally play smartly with Breloom when you see Terrakion in the team preview, Breloom still isnt that hard to lose against offensive teams (which commonly pack Terrakion anyway). This is because Breloom has rather low bulk and having to possibly take a hit to set up a Swords Dance and your team having no rapid spinner making Breloom suspectable to entry hazards will make you often lose Breloom. Even with Breloom Choice Band Terrakion is still a threat because nothing can switch into it. Also speaking about your team not having a Rapid Spinner it also hinders Gengars preformance with Stealth Rock breaking his Focus Sash upon contact.

    To help your team take on Choice Band Terrakion and Toxicroak somewhat relaibly i suggest Focus Sash Alakazam>Focus Sash Gengar with his ability Magic Gaurd preventing hazard and weather damage Alakazam is a much more reliable Focus Sash user for your team then Gengar while still keeping the high special attack and speed that Gengar brings to the table and infact surpassing Gengar in both these stats! Alakazam can also outspeed Choice Band Terrakion and revenge kill it with Psyshock. He can even switch into Choice Band Terrakion seeing as with Focus Sash Alakazam will be able to live a hit. With his Focus Sash Alakazam can live Toxicroaks Sucker Punch with 1 Hp and ohko back with Psyshock. Although that is semi unreliable way of beating Toxicroak at the end of the day being able to stop Toxicroak is better then not being able to stop Toxicroak and Alakazam can preform other tasks for your team like beating Terrakion, keeping his Focus Sash intact and having higher offensive stats.

    Your Mamoswine set also looks a bit funny. I understand Hail is there to mess up with other weathers but Heatran can already do that with Sunny Day and Kingdra does good in rain anyway. So Icicle Spear>Hail is a great option Icicle Spear provides Mamoswine with a seconday Ice-type stab and also a stronger one. It also has the benefit of breaking Substitutes and beating pokemon like Sub+DD Dragonite, Sub Punch Breloom and SubToxic Gliscor. Also Superpower>Stone Edge is the prefered option on Mamoswine because Fighting has better coverage then Ground, Superpower has 20 more base power then Stone Edge and Superpower has 20 more accuracy then Stone Edge. The only thing that Stone Edge hits harder is Gyarados and Volcarona who you probally don't want to be staying in on anyway for the fear of a Waterfall and Giga Drain/Fire Blast respectively.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped!

    Sets
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Alakazam @ Focus Sash | Magic Gaurd
    Timid | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Psyshock | Shadow Ball | Focus Blast | Hidden Power [Fire]

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Alakazam--->Gengar

    Mamoswine
    .Icicle Spear--->Hail
    .Superpower--->Stone Edge



    ~Superpowerdude
  25. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Oh man, I was so focused on the DeoGar combo, I totally forgot about Alakazam. I love that guy! Definitely going to try him out. Better, faster, stronger... but would a LO be better than a sash? I guess not against Scarf Terrakion/SuckerpunchCroak, but in general, the 30% increase in power is sexy for no drawback, but I'll test them both out.

    As for Mamo, I'll try it out like that. Spear is great, and it would help on SubTox Gliscor for sure. I like Stone Edge for the Edgequake coverage, but I'll give Superpower another try, especially for Ferrothorn.

    Thanks for the rate! I appreciate it!

    Edit: currently testing alakazam, keldeo, and Scizor over gengar, kingdra, and mamo.

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