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OU's Overrated mons

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by TAY, Feb 9, 2009.

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  1. TAY

    TAY You and I Know
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    It is not secret that some Pokemon are better than others. However, even within Overused there is a huge difference in the quality of Pokemon - and not even ones from the bottom of the usage list. In this thread I will discuss what I and many other players consider to be the overrated OU Pokemon; things we would never use except for an extremely specialized role or for entertainment.




    Alakazam
    With 120 base Speed and 135 base Special Attack, Alakazam may seem like a powerhouse; however, in reality it is dead weight against most teams. When analyzing the usefulness of a sweeper, one must take into account several things:
    1. Which Pokemon stop it?
    2. To what extent do they stop it?
    3. Does the sweeper have any options to get past its counters / checks?
    4. What kinds of teams are those Pokemon used on?
    In Alakakazam's case, its poor defenses mean that if it takes an attack it will likely be KOed. So the Pokemon which stop it are either naturally faster, are holding Choice Scarf, or are using a Priority move. Additionally, Blissey can switch into Alakazam and, even if it takes a Trick, will likely defeat Alakazam 1v1 or cripple it. So that answers questions one and two. As far as tech options go, Alakazam doesn't really have anything that will allow it wo win against any of the above mentioned Pokemon; most of the attacks it takes are physical, and it will still lose to Blissey after it tricks.

    Question four is difficult to come up with a concrete answer for, but as it is the most important question, generalizations will have to do. Every offensive team under the sun is using at least one priority Pokemon, probably 80% of them use at least one Pokemon with Choice Scarf, and occasionally they will use things like Jolteon and Weavile which outspeed Alakazam. So Offensive teams will likely have little trouble with Alakazam. Probably over 90% of stall teams carry Blissey and something else with at least decent Special Defense (Cresselia, Latias, Rotom) which can take out Alakazam. So stall teams are out. Balanced teams frequently use at least one Scarf or priority Pokemon to prevent sweeps, and besides that will likely have several Pokemon which can survive a hit from Alakazam and OHKO it (things like Metagross, Jirachi, Rotom, Bulky Waters, Zapdos).

    I realize that generalizing all common teams into three basic types is a bit naive, but with only six Pokemon allowed per team the generization is fairly accurate. Since all common team types carry multiple Pokemon which can easily defeat it, Alakazam is not worth using in OU.


    Donphan
    A lot of people (myself included) were shocked to learn that Donphan is still OU. As a bulky ground type, Donphan is severely outclass by both Hippowdon and Swampert, due to Slack Off on the former and better typing on the latter. As a Rapid Spinner, Donphan is outclassed by Forretress, Starmie, and even Claydol (come on, immunity to spikes and resistance to SR). Some players have attempted to use Choice Band or Life Orb Donphan in an attempt to damage ghosts as they switch in to block Rapid Spin, but even this strategy is terrible compared to simply using something with Pursuit. So the only real reason to use Donphan is if you need a physically bulky Rapid Spinner with good attack, but mediocre typing and abysmal Special Defense. Already Forretress is doing this job better, with the same Special Defense value and only 30 fewer Hit Points, as well as better typing and access to a far superior support movepool. The lower attack is hardly a concern for a stall team.

    As a physical wall Donphan fares well enough, but without recovery, even things it is meant to counter like Tyranitar and Salamence can simply wear it out (Ice Shard will not OHKO Salamence even after SR damage without Attack EVs). Not to mention if the opponent uses Toxic Spikes then you will have to sent Donphan in, rapid spin, use aromatherapy, and then pass wish to it to heal it. Starmie, Forretress, and Tentacruel all fare much better.


    Dusknoir
    Honeslty I'm not sure how this is still in OU, since Rotom outclasses it in almost every way. Dusknoir may have higher Defenses, but Rotom's Electric typing with Levitate gives it a distinct defensive advantage, since it can effectively counter Scizor, Metagross, Scarf Jirachi, Electivire, all of which give Dusknoir trouble. The main threat to either of them is CB Tyranitar, and Dusknoir's higher defenses will likely not stop it from being OHKOed by Crunch.

    Rotom is faster, has more power attacks, has better typing, is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, can one or two-hit KO every Rapid Spinner in OU, has a better attacking movepool, has more status options, and has more than one viable strategy; Dusknoir has none of these qualities. Dusknoir has higher Defenses, but they are often negligible against the most common Ghost counter in the game. The pros do not even come close to outweighing the cons; Dusknoir is severely in essentially every way by Rotom.


    Electivire
    Electivire suffers similar problems to Alakazam. Let's run it through the same criteria:

    1.) What stops it?
    Anything faster or which can take a hit from it and retaliate with a damaging move. A large portion of OU falls into this category.

    2.) To what extent?
    Electivire will be KOed in this case.

    3.) Does it have options to allow it to beat its counters?
    Electivire's Support movepool consists of...Meditate. It really has no other way of dealing extra damage to its counters or stopping them from KOing.

    4.) What types of team are these Pokemon used on?
    The problem with Electivire is has literally no function besides sweeping, and it misses too many OHKOes to be good at that. Even though it hits 3/4 of the type chart for Super Effective damage, the attacks it uses are so weak that it is easy to retaliate against. It's most powerful physical attack is Thunderpunch, which reaches 112.5 base power with STAB, which wouldn't be so terrible except that Electric only his two types for super effective damage. So it is forced to rely on its weaker unSTAB'd attacks, or else use its mediocre 95 base Special Attack. Even Blissey, Celebi, Jirachi, etc are not OHKOed by Electivire. It might fare well against more offensive teams if it didn't absolutely need the Speed boost, and Electric attacks are fairly uncommon on offensive teams (Rotom and Zapdos are not really offensive Pokemon). Even then Electivire will be taken out by things like Scarf Salamence, Gengar, or Jirachi, or else by ExtremeSpeed.

    To sum up: Electivire has difficulty sweeping against any kind of team. Its physical movepool's base powers are too low, and its Special Attack is too low for it to do any severe damage. Additionally, its typing only gives it two resistances, and its only STAB attacks only hit for super effective damage against two types.



    Ninjask
    I can go over this one pretty easily I think.

    Ninjask almost always will lose against:
    1. Anything with Whirlwind or Roar
    2. Anything with a priority attack
    3. Anything with Taunt
    Phazing is a staple of defense; priority is a staple of offense. Very few teams carry neither.

    Additionally:
    • Due to the frequence of Stealth Rock, Ninjask can probably only be used once, or twice if you get lucky.
    • Ninjask only has one reliable function
    • Ninjask will very rarely be able to pass anything but Speed unless the opponent switches, making it even more useless against Stall. With Liechi Berry it puts itself at huge risk of losing to priority or phazing.
    • Scizor is the most common Pokemon in OU; Metagross is the most common lead in OU. Both carry Bullet Punch.
    phew.


    Porygon-Z
    Here we have another sweeper! Let's run it through the criteria, and discuss from there:

    1.) What Pokemon stop it?
    Its most common counters are Blissey, Tyranitar, and Heatran (though there are obviously others).

    2.) To what extent?
    Tyranitar and Heatran will OHKO it; Blissey will at least Paralyze it.

    3.) Does it have options to beat its counters?
    Nasty Plot Pory-Z can sometime beat Blissey (though it will still be paralyzed in all likelyhood); with HP Fighting it can beat Tyranitar; with HP Ground it can beat Heatran.

    4.) What Kinds of teams are its counters used on?
    Blissey is on nearly every defensive team. Tyranitar and / or Heatran are on nearly every offensive and balanced team.

    So why is Porygon-Z no good? Well, its 90 base speed and Normal typing are the main reasons. With only 90 base speed, it will likely be outsped by 4-6 pokemon on offesnive teams, and by 3-4 on balanced teams. Its weak defenses ensure that most things that outspeed it will damage it pretty severely. Normal is a terrible offensive type, since it resists nothing besides the Ghost, which is almost never used. It is also resisted by Steel, and without a fire attack porygon is forced to use the relatively weak hidden power to take them down. With 2-3 steels on every team in OU this is a pretty terrible way to go about sweeping.

    Additionally, its tactics used to take down its counters are pretty lackluster. It is crippled while taking down Blissey, and it struggles to get the Nasty Plot required to take down Tyranitar and Heatran. Anything faster than it will likely OHKO, and with so many pokemon sitting above 100 Speed or using a choice scarf, Porygon-Z really has very little application in OU.


    -----------------------------------------------------------




    What Pokemon do you believe are horribly overrated? What pokemon do you never use? Is there anything else you think "doesn't deserve to be OU", or something on my list which you feel does? Obviously I encourage everyone to disagree with me and / or discuss your own overrated mons, but please make detailed responses!
  2. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    I think pz is not that bad
    Agilygon with HP fighting destroys celetran and t-tar (with download boost) and can sweep teams (now in plat has the problem of scizor thought)
    I had a pz based team before plat and it worked really well

    Interesting thread
  3. Aldaron

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    Definitely agreeing with Ninjask. At the least, overrated for how it is currently utilized.

    Ninjask leads are poor because they immediately give knoweldge into your strategy, and there is no residual damage or extenuating variables for the opponent to consider when bringing out his Ninjask check.

    I think if it were used properly, as in hidden until later in the battle when appropriate phazers have been lured / dealt with, that it wouldn't be overrated.

    But the current manifestation of Ninjask is certainly overrated.

    I would actually put it as first on the list.
  4. animenagai

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    I absolutely agree with that list.

    Honestly, with except for donphan (many other spinners are easily trapped by maggy or t-tar) and dusknoir, the first thing that pops in my head when I see one of these pokes is the word 'noob'. Honestly, I don't know why e-vire's OU every month. It NEEDS the speed boost for it to do anything at all. It is too slow to sweep otherwise, and too frail for regular switch ins.

    PZ gets walled way too easily. Sorlax, T-tar, Bliss or pretty much any steel type completely laughs at PZ. It's speed and type coverage just screws it up.

    Of course, there are other pokes that deserve to be on this list. IMO these are: weavile, yanmega and to some extent, starmie.

    The former 2 are frail and eat massive SR damage. They won't last long. Starmie's OK, but with CBtars running all over the place, I feel like she's a gamble.
  5. Ellington

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    I'd like to put Cresselia and Weavile on that list.

    Cresselia cannot handle the incredibly powerful offense of the current metagame and it lacks a reliable recovery. Also, there is little it can do to support the team aside from reflect. Once it's in, it doesn't really do anything.

    I don't really get Weavile either. It has a pretty good offensive typing and good offensive stats but the movepool doesn't have enough powerful moves. 75 BP for a STAB attack doesn't really cut it and Brick Break doesn't make up for the lack of coverage of the STAB because of its low power. I guess the Swords Dance set could be used but I really can never find a spot in my team for Weavile.
  6. SHUCKLE MAN

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    To be fair, some Pokemon like Donphan are only just scraping into OU every month. He seems to come 50th month after month. That's what is amazing me. I'm just amazed by the fact that it's always a few hundred usages away from UU/BL, but never quite drops into it.

    And, think about it. If we take 5 UU Pokemon, and replace the bottom 5 OUs with them, we'd probably say they were overrated too (with a few exceptions). My point is, with 50 Pokemon in OU, we're bound to think a few of them aren't worth using in OU, whatever combination of Pokemon we have there.
  7. wildfire393

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    I actually disagree with a lot of your points.

    Alakazam: The thing you are neglecting here is that Alakazam is the fastest Tricker in the game (besides the Uber Darkrai). You state that Blissey counters him so hard, but if Specs/Scarf is tricked on to Blissey and then 'Zam switches out, Blissey has now been crippled for the entire match, and the Zam player still has a blindingly fast and powerful special attacker. Pokemon like Jolteon can't boast the ability to Trick, and Pokemon like Azelf, Gengar, Latias, and Starmie are outclassed in terms of both Speed and Special Attack. Additionally, Alakazam has a pair of useful abilities. Synchronize allows it to do things like cripple Vaporeon or Togekiss on a predicted Status move, and Inner Focus allows it to survive Flinch-Haxxing Togekiss.

    Donphan: As a Spinner, I agree he is outclassed by just about anything that spins, including Claydol. As a Physical wall/supporter, he is outclassed by Hippowdon, Rhyperior, and Gliscor. And as an Ice Sharding Ground-type, he is outclassed by Mamoswine. However, none of the above-mentioned Pokemon can do ALL those things. He may not be Ace of any Trade, but he's certainly Jack of a lot.

    Dusknoir: Better defenses, a much better Attack, a better Physical movepool, and access to Taunt allow Dusknoir to stand out from Rotom-A.

    Electivire: With a Motor Drive bonus, he outspeeds quite a bit. He has a good movepool and very solid stats. And Motor Drive itself is a very useful move, allowing him to soak up Electric attacks that can trouble many teams. Yes, there's ground-types for that, but many ground types can be OHKO'd by the Ice Beams that often accompany Thunderbolts on movesets. Yes, he might not be as good as most noobs make him out to be, but he's still worth using sometimes.

    Ninjask: Agree, and just have to add that Magma Storm and especially Rock Blast also wreck him.

    Porygon-Z: One of the few non-Psychic, non-Ghost Pokemon to get trick already makes it inviting if you want a Tricker on your team who is not weak to either Dark or Ghost (and actually is immune to one of these types). Scarf Pory-Z can come in on a Physically Defensive Pokemon and grab a +1 SpA bonus from Download, making it a rather fearsome opponent (similar to Choice Scarf Guts Hera switching in to a status move). Adaptability is a great option on the NP set, making for an incredibly powerful Tri Attack. He's not amazing, but he has his uses.
  8. diinbong

    diinbong *it's in you to give*
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    Honestly I totally agree with this, especially Alakazam. Others that don't "belong", in my opinion are:

    Dragonite: Seriously, this thing is so outclassed it's not funny. What with Flygon, Kingdra, Salamence, and now even Latias and possibly Latios, there is no single niche that this can boast about. All the other Dragons of OU have their own specific roles and specialties, but Dragonite is just a sloppy mix of all of them and less.

    Weavile: This thing is basically on the same boat as Alakazam; it can do a lot of damage, just doesn't have the defenses or attacks to do so in the right situations. This can at least use Pursuit and Ice Shard to be a respectable revenge killer, but would I reccomend someone using it? No. Would I use it? Hell no. It just doesn't give enough in balance with its problems.

    But who cares if others just don't get "it". These Pokemon just seem to be the kind you see on a team that also carries Nasty Plot Houndoom and Ramparados and Cresselia. Did I mention Cresselia is overated as well?

    An Air Slash from Togekiss is a bad example since you'll be taking a lot of damage from it anyway and theres no way you'll be able to KO it back. Also, it would have to be faster. Inner Focus just isn't a good ability besides on some leads.
    ---
    The problem with many of these Pokemon is that they're okay stand-alone sweepers, it's just hard to fit them on a team.
  9. Luxormaniac

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    Don't you mean "underrated," or maybe "overlooked?"

    These Pokemon all deserve more love than they get, or most do anyway. Scarfgon-Z is fantastically awesome when used correctly (ideally after any opposing Steels are killed) and GyaraVire has decreased in popularity to the point where its so unexpected its viable. I've had a successful SD Weavile wearing a Sash and Rapid Spin support, but Scizor breaks it. (I ran a similar NP Azelf on the same team.)
    The only thing Dusknoir really has over Rotom is Pain Split, which far from makes up the difference. Rotom is just fantastic.

    But these guys are underappreciated for a reason, and the reason is they are just not good enough.
    Nice thread.
  10. the pugilist

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    I'd honestly add Flygon to that list as well. It lacks power and durability, whihc isn't a good thing. I've tested several Flygon sets out (Scarf, Defensive etc) and I really haven't been happy with the results at all.
  11. diamondfan1910

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    I don't agree, Scarf Flygon has the potential to be one of the best revengers in OU, with its fantastic STABs and wonderful Speed. Can't say I was impressed by CB though.
  12. wildfire393

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    Band Flygon is very useful, I've found. Banded Outrage at worst 2HKOs just about everything except Steels, Banded EQ at worst 2HKOs just about every Steel (besides Bronzong and Skarmory, of course). Oftentimes when the opposing team has been cleansed of Steels or cleansed of Flyers/Levitators, Flygon will sweep through the remainder like butter. Dual great immunities + stealth rock resistance + immune to sandstorm + U-turn makes him a great scouter as well, while piling on some decent damage in the process.

    Things that I would most heartily support being put on this list though are:
    Weavile - Incredibly fragile, incredibly weak movepool, dies to pretty much every priority move ever, making his speed less than great.
    Dragonite - He's just a bad Salamence. The only thing he can do that 'Mence can't is set up Light Screen to live a couple Ice Beams, but that's kind of gimmicky.
  13. MetaNite

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    I have a few feelings about this thread. The first being I agree with some things and really disagree about others. First of all, Electivire, Donphan, Porygon-Z, and Alakazam are underrated if anything. If they were overrated they wouldn't be at the bottom of OU, and whenever usage comes out people wouldn't be so surprised they were still there.

    I must agree about Ninjask, and Donphan for the most part. With a good EV spread of even Focus Sash Ninjask can actually be a huge asset to your team. You are pretty much guaranteed to lose if your opponent got in their Machamp with +6 speed and +2 attack *and it is not choiced.

    Donphan has a sadder story. However an underrated thing about Donphan is that huge attack score. It is the highest of any bulky-ground. So the fact that it can dish out great damage, wall a few attacks, and support the team is a nice sight. Toxic Spikes isn't really that common any way, so Donphan's main purpose is to get rid of Stealth Rock which it resists. This is a lot harder now though, and I wouldn't be surprised if Donphan gets the boot real soon.

    I don't have much to say about Electivire. A positive thing is that its SpD is actually decent, meaning it's not going to die in one hit (unless its Earthquake). It's ability to work with Gyarados is also a plus.

    Porygon-Z and Alakazam both have huge Special attacks. Yes, Blissey walls them, but Blissey walls nearly half the metagame. As far as support goes, Alakazam has Encore which is an amazing move. In addition to being the fasted abuser of Dual Screen in OU, making it an amazing lead using Encore aswell. Really, that thing should be used more often. Porygon-Z can run a Scarf set and just murder fast frail teams. It also won't die from stubbing its toe (can't say the same about Zam).

    Dusknoir has great defenses. That's all. I can't say I've used the SubPuncher to good success.

    Some Pokemon that are actually overated would be... uh... Gengar. Although it is decreasing in usage, it is still overated. It's attack and speed aren't as great as they were, and similiarly to Alakazam is dies to priority moves.

    EDIT: Dragonite is my favorite Pokemon so I shall defend him, first by saying he is not overrated at all. How is he overrated if there's so many people ragging on him constantly??? Just because he's Overused doesn't make him overrated. Secondly, a niche I've found for him is in Heal Bell. Pretty cool actually.
  14. Pyromanic

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    Dugtrio.
    The thing only use is as a trapper. Even outclassed at that. It is in the same boat as flygon except worse. It need band to hit hard enough and scarf to hit fast enough. In a priority metagame it is frail. His only viable as a heatran revenge killer.
  15. Broth3r

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    I disagree. A dragon with SR resist is great in today's metagame, it is defenitly underrated. And used correctly, it's durability is very good.

    I also disagree with Pory-Z. I acknowledge the Nasty Plot set is weak nowdays, but a Jolly Scarf set is one of the best revenge killers around, almost matching ScarfGar.
  16. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    i took this from a different approach, the mons being listed here aren't overrated at all to be honest. Most of the ones being listed are very low OU and could be possible UU.

    i picked mine from high ou and mid ou. controversy to ensue!_!

    Gengar

    i listed gengar because he is still being used so much, even though he just isn't that good anymore as he was in Diamond/Pearl. Platinum brought on a new wave of threats and a new ghost-type; Rotom-h. Priority is everywhere, ranging from Bullet Punch Scizor to random Sucker Punches. This automatically brings Gengar down a few notches in my book. I mean, Gengar just can't switch in anymore because nearly everything can one shot him. Now make no mistake, Gengar is still a threat and should be accounted for when building a team. But honestly, with Hypnosis accuracy being dropped to 60% and only getting Trick with Platinum, Gengar is almost in the same boat as Alakazam, although the former is obviously much better. I feel Rotom-h is just so much better than Gengar on a team. He counters Scizor, Mamoswine, Bullet Punch Lucario, and other threats that Gengar just couldn't step up to.

    I feel Gengar is only used as much as he is because people still have this mentality of Gengar being the best Pokemon still which he isn't. People have caught on and he has dropped quite a few spots in usage but I am expecting rapid decline in usage (dropping possible to mid 20s) once people realize Gengar just isn't the best choice right now.

    People probably disagree with what I am saying, but right now, Gengar just isn't the threat he used to be. With Trick he is still a potent threat (the scarf version) but in a metagame that hits as hard as it does and plays stall aggressively as it does, there just doesn't seem to be a spot for Gengar anymore.

    If this is confusing / ranting, what I am trying to say is "Gengar is great and is still a serious threat but he is not monster he once was and many people seem to think he still is".

    Snorlax

    Snorlax is still a threat don't worry, but this doesn't mean he is that great. CurseLax and CBLax are still the premiere sets but CurseLax is definitely not as good as CBLax. CurseLax first of all, has to have a team dedicated to him if he wants to be truly successful. The team usually must consist of Pursuiters for Celebi and other Leech Seeders as well as strong Fighting-type counters such as Rotom-h, Vaporeon, and Gliscor. Yes these teams can be successful but it is usually high risk, high reward and don't forget, teams hit harder than ever before, as new threats like dd life orb mence can put the hurting on Rotom-h, Vaporeon, Gliscor, and most importantly: Snorlax. With all the mindless offense being thrown around today, its very hard to get Snorlax to work properly without being in critical health. Of course, there are truly special battlers out there who use lax teams and win with them...

    CBLax falls under the "not used enough" category. CBLax now can use Pursuit and Elemental Punches, and has a wide variety of moves such as Body Slam, Earthquake, Self-Destruct, and Fire Blast.
  17. Green Mage

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    That brings fanboys out of the woodwork.

    I can't say I fully agree with weavile being overrated as i use it to great effect. Super fast pursuit means it can kill stuff like gengar for free, and ice shard speaks for itself. Swords Dance and Pursuit combined with a lum berry seriously fucks with blissey. I'd imagine that weavile would be even more effective now that latias is legal.

    I think ninjask would be somewhat (although barely) improved if people stopped leading with it so they can scout a bit first, hopefully killing scizor and skarm in the process (zone), and viewed it more as an offensive pokemon that can pass out of danger. Trying to pass +6 speed to something right off the bat obviously never works.

    I'd like to add Flygon, who simply doesn't hit hard enough. If only it learned Dragon Dance.

    Cresselia is hard to mention since she's one of my favorite pokemon, but the typing kills her. She should be a great Calm Minder, but psychic is such a weak STAB. Moonlight also sucks for recovery, especially because of who her 100% counter is.

    Forretress
    gets set up on easily and i've seen full team sweeps happen because of it plenty of times.

    Dugtrio needs a choice scarf to beat heatran consistently and choiced EQ is such a liability that it isn't even funny.

    Aerodactyl is desperate for good STAB. Flying and Rock are the two types that are still missing a decent widespread attack move (Brave Bird is good but Aero doesn't learn it). Aerial Ace sucks BP wise and Rock Slide's still isn't high enough. Stone Edge's accuracy loses games by itself. Also, in the platinum metagame, all the speed in the world is negated if you are weak to steel.
  18. tennisace

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    Dragonite can run the Mixed set better than any other dragon, since it gets both Superpower and Fire Blast. It's actually an amazing wallbreaker if used correctly. It just seems to be outclassed because people don't use the one set it has over everyone else. However, I have to agree with all the other mentioned Pokemon in this thread.
  19. Aldaron

    Aldaron wu tang clan ain't nothin to fuck wit
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    Yea, KD24's perspective is a different one, but I agree with it. Isn't overrated more what is high and shouldn't be?

    Low OUs, unless they absolutely should not even be low OU, aren't really "overrated."

    But I completely disagree with KD24's choices of Snorlax and Gengar lol.

    Out of the original list, the only Pokemon that I think are low OU that absolutely should not be (at least for how they are currently used) are Ninjask and Electivire. I think Dusknoir, Alakazam and Porygon-Z are all used appropriately, if not a bit too much.
  20. Nachos

    Nachos Just who is the Coon?
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    Most of the Pokemon in that list are used by the people who have no clue about 'proper competitive play'. People who've just come out of Wifi were anything goes, basically just use anything that works (eg. a random team of 6), will usually hop to the things they normally use.

    I'd say 60% of players on Shoddy are randoms/alts, and even though they don't know what they're using, it still contributes to the finalized tier list.
  21. CntTchtis

    CntTchtis

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    I agree with metanite, Dragonite is different from fellow dragons because he is much bulkier, he can use heal bell, roost, and some other supporting options such as thunder wave. Facing a bulky dragonite is pretty horrible.

    Curselax can be great pokemon to use, and it is true that it needs support, but that is one of the great things about pokemon, u get 6 of them, which work together to sweep teams, Curselax in its entirety is not just cursing, in the words of mtgxerxes(more or less), never set up too early, most people will think you are going to curse switch into a fighting type only to get body slammed it can be quite devastating. I think it is not overrated at all, but is actually what it should be a great poke, it works best with a Dusknoir/Rotom(getting to it), and a CB Scizor/Tyranitar.

    Dusknoir is a great pokemon, but it will be interesting to see if Rotom really outclasses it. Dusknoir has better defenses, higher attack stats, a priority move which can 2HKO a few special attackers, who cant OHKO Dusknoir back such as Azelf, and Gengar. Dusknoir has access to the elemental punches, and EQ which is nice and gives him something that Rotom drools over. Implying Scizor is a problem for Dusknoir is not true, CB Scizor Pursuit vs Max HP/Def+ Dusknoir does 32%, and after a will-o-wisp, Scizor becomes essentially useless. Rotom is a great pokemon too and I like the formes, they can't take hits as well as Dusknoir, but take them pretty damn well, I quite like them both, as Scizor counters.

    Azelf is another pokemon whose usage as a sweeper has been almost overlooked in Platinum, its ability to run a mix set, can destroy like no other, only priority stops it, and faster pokemon of course, but it is really a threat thanks to Zen Headbutt, and Ice Punch making physical moves viable, great wallbreaker which I have been Unfortunate enough to face. Its not just good for getting up Stealth Rock and going boom, the Nasty Plot sweeper is decent 2 and I have used it to success, in todays metagame Flamethrower is ALWAYS a nice option to have.
  22. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
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    I would say Cresselia should be in that list. It really can't do much to opposing pokemon, besides watching them stat up in her face, I mean what kind of Scizor WOULDN't like to set up on a Cressela? It can take a charge / ice beam, and Swords Dance / X-Scissor back at it. (no one metion Psycho Shift)
  23. animenagai

    animenagai
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    I agree with cress and flygon (though they could be used well in a small niche role). Flygon to me is only good with SR + u-turn. To me, that's its best quality - to wear down a team almost risk free. However, in isolation, it sucks. If the opponent doesn't rely on a flyer as flygon's counter, it really doesn't do much. Heck, I've even tried a sub-liechi set (looked great on paper) and it couldn't even 2hko zapdos with a boosted outrage.

    Cress is overrated because of everything rai said and the fact that it gets raped by u-turn and pursuit, both of which are so common in this current metagame. The only set I would consider using is the psycho shift set.
  24. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    Flygon resists SR and is a great hit and run poké with a nice STAB EQ. STAB Outrage is nice too... I think Flygon is well deserving of OU status.

    The Flame Orb sets are the only sets that I've seen effectively used on Cresselia. With Flame Orb she turns the tables against her counters. She has never failed to get me qualified on any OU Suspect thingy. If anything she's underrated. She basically turns the team she's on into a bunch of physical walls. The only common thing from the OU physical side that does well against her is Infernape and Heracross, even then they could be in trouble if she has Psychic.
  25. animenagai

    animenagai
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    I have to agree. Seriously, how gay is it to hold on to your e-vire half the game just so you get a speed boost (doesn't work if you don't have the surprise factor)? What about getting one BP off with ninjask just to get the switch in paralysed? Really is silly.
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