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OverPower - The Reason why Average Pokés are going to lose space in Gen V teams.

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Chains of Ruin, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. KokoaKiwi


    Sep 22, 2010
    I love playing with my favorite pokes. If they're outclassed in some way, I'll just abuse their niche.
    Sadly, Shanderaa is hands down my favourite pokemon from Gen V. Based on its desing, I loved it. Then, I found out about Shadow Tag and 145 SpA, which made me happy but at the same time I'm mayorly hoping it won't get banned. At the very least, ban ST, but not the pokémon itself. :3
  2. Sandstreamer


    May 27, 2010
    Most interestingly, it seems like GF does too. Hence, Butterfly Dance and Shell Break and stuff like this. I mean, I expected the new generation to have pokemon that just look insanely powerful (like every new generation had) and bring some additions and new niches to old pokemon (like every generation did), but that we are now talking about using Ninetails, Politoed, Ditto, Cloyster and Blaziken in OU (again) is just great. =)
  3. Fisdunction


    Sep 20, 2010
  4. Örly


    Jan 2, 2010
    You don't even know what you are talking about.
  5. Granstafer


    Sep 3, 2010
    I'm still trying to comprehend all of this. I spent the past two days comprehending onokusu. That's one of... 140 ish pokes.
  6. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

    Jan 22, 2009
    With the intoduction of new good pokemon and the buffing of other old pokemon, it means that these "average" pokemon are no longer average- they are now below average.

    Also, please remember there is more than one tier. If these new/buffed "over"powered pokemon come to dominate OU, you can always play uu or a lower tier.


    Apr 26, 2006
    That was a rather interesting OP! :D

    But I was thinking, if sweepers do become dominant, and tanks rare, then I was thinking surely all the best sweepers would be OU and UU, leaving the best tanks and the poor sweepers in NU, etc. So whilst one tier might be offensively orientated, I'm not sure they'll all be.
  8. diamondfan1910


    Dec 4, 2008
    I sort of wanted to stop reading when you put E-vire and Shanderaa in the same sub-section. Sorry, but Shanderaa is in a different class to E-vire and a hell of a lot more Pokemon besides.
  9. Omnipresent


    Jul 31, 2010
    It's going to be like a river after a hurricane. Everything is gonna be stirred up, but things will calm down and have a central balance.

    On another note I've been looking at stats too much. The weather channel was on and I saw 92 95 100 86 89 89 and I was like meh, decent stats.
  10. Rhiehn


    May 8, 2010
    Garchomp is better than every single new poke besides the >600 BSTs, except maybe shanderaa.
  11. Karpi


    Sep 9, 2007
    You are forgetting the other half of the top used pokemon. Gyarados does exactly two things: sweeps with dragon dance/waterfall/stone edge/ice fang or earthquake OR phazes with Rest/sleep talk/waterfall/roar

    those are virtually the only sets gyarados used throughout all of 4th gen. Granted, you can play with his EV spread, but that hardly counts as versatile.

    Then we have scizor, who nearly always runs a choice ban set with the same moves.

    Swampert's list of frequently used moves is incredibly tiny too, as it is simply a bulky water stealth rock user.

    Lucario, well, if you take a look at usage stats you will see that nobody uses specs. It uses a grand total of five moves.

    That is all these pokemon NEED to do well. The number of pokemon with an obvious use balances out the diverse pokemon
  12. ItemsGuy


    Sep 23, 2010
    Hey look it's Rhyperior again.

    Also, you're forgetting that creative teams and clever trainers play a big role in this. If these threats are as big and common as you say they're going to be, they'll be a lot easier to predict, and a lot easier to prepair for. Remember when Bullet Punch Scizor came out? There was a Scizor counter on every team.

    The metagame sorts itself out. Also, I've lost count of how many Blisseys (among the other "best" OU special walls) I've demolished with my Torkoal because lol people don't know Torkoal explodes olololol
  13. R.B.G.


    Apr 23, 2010
    In the OP, you forgot to mention Garchomp, who undoubtedly will be top 5 OU. The "shadow tag candle" known as Shanderaa isn't a gimmick. That shit is deadly.
  14. FelGrand


    Oct 8, 2009
    If Shadow Tag Candle is gimmick, imma label Dugtrio and Wobb as gimmick.
  15. heroic poke

    heroic poke

    Sep 17, 2010
    All I can say about the OP is...


    No, I don't mean to flame. I just want to state my lack of words for the OP because...well...


    Now kidding aside, Ononokosu, is just another Salamence without the 4x weakness but without Intimidate and slightly worse defenses and troll-slow speed. My Focus Sash Weavile can smack this thing around with Ice Punch even before the Sash breaks. Or a Life Orb Ice Shard after Ono gets +1. And Weavile's one of the lesser OU pokes. Oh did I mention ScarfStar's Ice Beam?

    There are so many other examples, like Sazando--SLOW AS HELL. Super Sweeper Firefly? Say hello to Stealth Rock. Or beg for mercy as my SUBROOST Aerodactyl Rock Slides you to oblivion (and that's a suboptimal Aero set).

    These new specialized pokes are good, and I like them a lot, it's a step in the right direction of the game's evolution. It's healthy. It's good. And IT'S NOT BY ANY MEANS BROKEN AT A FIRST, SECOND, AND THIRD GLANCE. We've all been there before, and the reason we still enjoy competitive battling is not just because of the evolving design of game mechanics, but because the players simply find ways to adapt--movesets, play styles, or even something as simple as TIERING.

    It's all good guys. Don't overhype the changes. It'll still be fun, just different. It could even be more fun than you think.
  16. NeoSeth


    Jun 21, 2010
    I don't think I defined versatility well enough in my post, or at least as I was thinking of it at the time.

    Gyarados can be tweaked to beat on defensive teams with that Taunt set, or go all-out LO sweeper. It does a fair job of countering other threats too, like Infernape, Heatran and Scizor. It also beats other Bulky waters without HP Electric, since Taunt prevents status and most other waters can't really hurt it back.

    Right there I listed several different jobs one Pokemon can do with one set. it counters several Pokemon by setting up on them and thereby can really patch up a team. That's more versatile than, say, using Quagsire in Ubers to beat Kyogre, since Quagsire doesn't really do much else. A "Specialized" Pokemon as I was defining it is one that counters a very small group of Pokemon and is used as sort of a utility counter against those Pokemon. It doesn't see much use since it only really does that one thing.

    Scizor was specialized, but still widely used simply because of the raw power of Dragon Dancers in OU and the fact that Scizor (being Steel) resisted Outrage. Once Salamence was removed, Scizor did drop in usage. I feel like Scizor's massive popularity was because it's job (Countering Dragon Dancers) was currently something that most players really needed done on their team. Then to counter that you had Magnezone, who is really a niche Pokemon. But in this metagame, that niche is incredibly relevant and useful, since many Pokemon are far harder to stop without Steels to resist their attacks. Scarftar also become popular in this way, as Latias became more powerful, and people wanted to stop it.

    As the metagame shifts, some specialty Pokemon will become vastly popular because their specialty is currently needed to counter a dominant force in the metagame. If that force remains dominant, then the specialty Pokemon remains popular, like Scizor. But I wouldn't call Lucario a specialty Pokemon, since it does have those key resistances that allow it to patch up many holes on your team. Swampert does the same, although more defensively and without nearly as much offensive presence.

    So I see what you're saying, I just don't think those Pokemon were "specialty". They still do a lot with a little when you really get break them down and look at them.
  17. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 15, 2006
    You're not a unique snowflake just because you use "your favorites". It does not make you a better, more skilled or whatever else person just because someone else likes to "play to win", or any other "negative" quality you think a competitive player would have.
  18. Johnny_Darko


    Sep 12, 2010
    Garchomp is an excellent check to the meta this time around when equipped with a Choice Scarf. He can basically guarantee a revenge kill against any setup sweeper people seem to think counts as a threat. Shanderaa trapping will also be an effective way to counter certain threats, but is honestly a bit over-hyped. Choice Scarf Ditto can also be utilized, though people might work around this in their own ways. There's more checks where that came from. Sweepers aren't going to be too terribly good in this gen, to be completely honest. From what I've seen, it will be about trading KOs more than ever before.
  19. bubbly


    Dec 4, 2009
    I think the OP is mostly a combination of overhypea and fear that his favourite pokemon will get knocked out of OU (possibly! no offense meant).

    You can go AHAHAHAH WE'RE GOING TO DIE all you like at the ridiculous offensive stats but they also need to be coupled up with other stats. Ononokusu should not really be hyped - in fact it looks like being considerably outshone by a number of other pokemon, such as Sazando (which has defenses and mixed offense, e.g. these ARE still useful), Doryuuzu which admittedly focuses on extreme power and speed and thats about it, Shanderaa which abuses its abilities and massive SpAttack/typing, and the legendaries which may be in OU. The one I'm thinking about is Kyuremu which has the stats, even with its poor typing, to tear through unprepared teams.

    This has happened before, of course. Each generation has created a set of powerful offensive pokemon. I actually like the way the metagame's going - its no longer "shove Blissey in front of a special attack" endless boredom, you have to be constantly alert and prepared to sacrifice.
  20. Bloodbath


    Sep 24, 2010
    To be honest I don't feel threatened... Mainly cause 1) Ditto gets awesomeness! 2) T-Tar is still a bad ass (considering that it can smack out Shanderaa indefinably) and There's a few new pokes I'm itching to try that I liked before I knew thier abilities.. eg: Fully evolved Smugleaf with Perversity from the Dream World might be pretty decent from it's defense and speed plus with you getting plus 2 every leaf storm...... Then there's Shanderaa who I liked for it's cuteness.
  21. Murkglow


    Sep 21, 2010
    I laughed.

    Anyway, yeah, I'm not that worried. At least not regarding this kind of stuff. There are other things that bother me more about the coming gen then this (like the potential team reveling).
  22. Kyreth


    Sep 22, 2010
    Folks I think were reserving their opinion until we were sure Shell Break worked the way we thought- a +2 offense, -1 defense deal.

    But like I said, sweepers now have a risk, and that risk is Choice Scarf Ditto. Talk about Generation I Pokemon who took that level in butt kicking...
  23. thisguy


    Jul 10, 2006
    aight errbody ima use seeking and sweep all yalls team peace
  24. red12345


    Oct 25, 2009
    I think what he's trying to say is stuff like Clefable are going to lose their place. Stats matter a lot more is what he's saying.

    I, on the other hand, see the meta diversifying. The sheer amount of options is my reason.

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