OverUsed General Discussion

[TaBuu]

Offensive Deoxys Speed is simply too god-like in the current metagame. The ability to run Life Orb, have the ability to switch moves and outspeed threats such as Scarf Garchomp makes Deoxys-S a "staple" for HO teams. TBH I see no reason as to why Dual Screens or Dedicated Hazards Lead Deoxys-S should be used over Offensive Deo-S ; both alternates are outclassed by the likes of Deo-D and Espeon

Stall is a much more prevelant playstyle from what I've seen so far in the high 1700-1800 ladder range. Unaware is stupidly good and Lead Gothitelle is becoming more common on these stall archetypes bc of its ability to hunt and trap any threats to the Unaware Core of Clefable and Quagsire.

Crunch > Stone Edge on Mega DD Tyranitar IMO. Stone Edge kills everything and is guarenteed game at +1 ... If Stone Edge connects. There has been too many instances where Ttar chokes and misses a crucial KO with Stone Edge. For a sweeper to be so reliant on a STAB that makes the user hesistant to even use is an issue. Teammates exist and a proper team shouldn't have to force Ttar to KO 2-3 fully healthy Pokemon in one go. Crunch isn't used for coverage ; Crunch's consistent damage and power is what makes it such an appealing option over Stone Edge. Imagine having to sweep a team with Alakazam's Focus Blast or Keldeo's Hydro Pump ; its unsafe and victory should not be based on the shaky foundation of luck. Instead the plan should be to set up a path where the Pokemon can sweep with a more consistent option (i.e - Alakazam's Psyshock and Keldeo's Scald/Secret Sword)

 

[doughboy]

Just wondering how do people feel about SD vs Substitute on Mawile? Whenever I use Swords Dance against offensive teams you just never are able to pull off a sweep due to there always being at least one Pokemon who is able to tank a +2 Sucker Punch. I feel that Substitute pressures the opponent much more and the added Fighting-coverage in Focus Punch really helps against defensive cores with Steel-types.

 

[Trinitrotoluene]

Just wondering how do people feel about SD vs Substitute on Mawile? Whenever I use Swords Dance against offensive teams you just never are able to pull off a sweep due to there always being at least one Pokemon who is able to tank a +2 Sucker Punch. I feel that Substitute pressures the opponent much more and the added Fighting-coverage in Focus Punch really helps against defensive cores with Steel-types.

Honestly, the decision to use Swords Dance or Substitute on Mawile depends on whether you want Mawile to punch even larger holes in teams or work around status and offensive checks. However, both moves have some drawbacks. Swords Dance leaves Mega Mawile open to status moves from anything faster (most notably Breloom and Rotom-W) as well as revenge killers that can tank a Sucker Punch (by virtue of resistances and / or bulk). In comparison, Substitute shaves 1/4 of Mawile's HP per use, which would not be too bad if it could hold any item other than the Mawilite; however, this HP draining, coupled with Mawile's lack of passive recovery, which has the effect of making Mawile a bit more vulnerable to passive damage, really cuts into its durability. It's all an opportunity cost.

Personally, I've had better results with Substitute than with Swords Dance, but maybe that's just me...

 

[TaBuu]

Having used Sucker Punch extensively on Mega Mawile, I can agree with Substitute being a more opportune option over Swords Dance. Offensive teams always seem to have more than enough options for a +2 Sucker Punch which can seriously be a nuisance. Not to mention the fact that sometimes you end up playing the game of either Play Rough'ing the opponent expecting a non-attack move or having to Sucker Punch expecting an attack. With the rise in HO style oriented teams, Substitute definitely has its merits.

 

[rachet67]

I've been using Mawile, not really as a sweeper against offensive teams, but as a pokemon that can wreck weakened stall teams. For this I've found swords dance to be more useful, even if it means you can be burned. Against offensive teams, I usually just don't go for the swords dance at all, unless they really have nothing that can tank a sucker punch and revenge kill. Without having to shelf 25% of its health with every substitute, it can switch into otherwise threatening mons such as Bisharp more often. I definitely think the substitute set has merits, as it prevents status, allows it to use focus punch, and isn't forced out as much against offensive teams, but I don't think the swords dance set should be discounted.

Swords Dance variants struggle even against stall considering the Unaware Pokémon they tend to carry.

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 156-186 (56.9 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Quagsire isn't really stopping Mawile anytime soon.

 

[Sucker Lunch]

Pinsir really took a drop in usage in April. He's now beneath Venusaur and Mawile. Do you guys have any idea why? The bug still mauls things to death and is a great chubby sweeper. I wonder what caused the plummet from glory.

 

[Nog]

Back in January when OU was still a hot mess, Mega Pinsir was able to dominate because people were just so unprepared for it. Now teams are being made with checks and counters to Mega Pinsir without even meaning to and the meta has adapted well to him. Mega Mawile on the other hand is ridiculous to try and counter as it blows up everything in existence. You need a ton of physical bulk, some speed, and the ability to win 50 / 50's if the carry sucker punch. A nice check is scarfed Excadrill, which is meant for Mawile, but also checks Mega Pinsir. The same goes for scarfed Garchomp or Greninja. Thundurus would be on a team more for Keldeo than for Mega Pinsir, but happens to hard check Mega Pinsir a well. The fact that people can effortlessly play around or team build accordingly to Pinsir makes him less playable and underwhelming. Tl;dr With the amount of physical walls / Choice Scarf users in the meta game today, Mega Pinsir is just not as big a threat as it once was.

 

[Jukain]

Honestly I haven't found Pinsir as underwhelming as some people say. It's just so damn powerful, smashing apart a lot of teams assuming you work through knocking out Thundurus. It fits perfectly into HO teams that can stack to overwhelm Skarm. Rotom-W gets chunked a quarter every time it comes in, eventually just getting bypassed if you play smart. Lando-T can't switch in until it's Mega Evolved because of Hyper Cutter, even. Pinsir doesn't have a lot of switch-ins, and these can mostly be bypassed over the course of the battle. It has flaws but it's definitely still very threatening.

 

[TaBuu]

regarding Mega Pinsir ...

"The fact that people can effortlessly play around or team build accordingly to Pinsir makes him less playable and underwhelming" (Nog)

"It's just so damn powerful, smashing apart a lot of teams assuming you work through knocking out Thundurus" (Jukain)
- - - - - - - - - - -
I'm going to have to take a neutral position on Mega Pinsir's current viability in the metagame. As Nog has pointed out, players have learned to adapt and expose Mega Pinsir's flaws making Mega Pinsir seem less threatening. Skarmory, Rotom-W, Thundurus-I, Talonflame, Scarfed Excadrill, Scarfed Landorus-Therian, and Scarfed Tyranitar are a few examples of some Pokémon that are more than capable of handling a Mega Pinsir. These top relevant threats have become more common on teams and serve their purpose well of checking not only Mega Pinsir but also other offensive threats. However, as Jukain has pointed out, despite the metagame shift, Mega Pinsir still stands as a relevant threat that must not be taken lightly. Flaws are flaws and prevent Mega Pinsir from performing at its top capacity. Regardless, Mega Pinsir's sheer power and offensive coverage can force quite the pressure on any opposing team.

 

[rachet67]

Has anyone else found that stall's life is getting harder and harder? Recently stall had made a huge bounce back into the spotlight, but now I see taunt on literally everything that can run it, and normally obscure things like taunt/will-o-wisp Gengar or taunt/rest Gothitelle running amuck. Not to mention that the HO core of Deoxys/Bisharp/Landorus is a huge thorn in stalls side.

 

[Clair]

Yeah definitely (and there's a pretty simple explanation for it). After the meta began to settle and we saw that spike in the popularity of stall on the high ladder, everyone panicked and started running Gothitelle. However, as stall's popularity begins to subside in response, people realised that Gothitelle is awful and that they'd much prefer to be running Landorus, or any of the other threats which threaten stall without being death fodder against offense.

At the moment I actually feel like the Deo-D HO builds are doing stall a favour by restricting the viability of certain stallbreaking threats (e.g. M-Heracross, Gengar, Landorus). Balanced teams have all the tools to destroy stall, but thanks to the predominance of DeoSharp, they typically build to beat offense first.