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Discussion in 'Pokémetrics' started by X-Act, Jun 9, 2009.
Huh, Mamoswine isn't weak to rock :/
Neutrality, 12%. That comes into play if you get Surfed or Fire Blasted. It also means it can't revenge kill as effectively after it gets beaten on by a lead. That's my point.
But take a look at your calculations. You obviously did the Aerodactyl X Mamoswine/Tyranitar X Mamoswine with Rock being super effective.
Looking at the 'Big 12' leads, I have found that one pokemon is capable of countering ALL of them.
Rotom-C @ Choice Specs
252 Sp.Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
I calculated damage on all of the standard lead sets for the 'big 12' barring Ninjask, who is OHKO'ed by most things, and has Sash anyway, and the results were pleasing. Please note that these are in useage order.
Metagross: Thunderbolt = 66.76% - 78.57% (Outsped)
Azelf: Thunderbolt = 192.72% - 226.44% (Sashed, but can't 2HKO)
Swampert: Leaf Storm = 237.16% - 279.05% (Outsped)
Jirachi: Thunderbolt = 58.53% - 68.77%
Aerodactyl: Thunderbolt = 186.75% - 219.54% (Sashed, but can't 2HKO)
Infernape: Thunderbolt = 100.34% - 118.09%
Hippowodon: Leaf Storm = 110.24% - 129.76% (Outsped)
Ninjask: Thunderbolt = 2HKO due to Sash
Bronzong: Thunderbolt = 53.85% - 63.31% (Outsped)
Tyranitar: Leaf Storm = 91.27% - 107.23% (Outsped)
Heatran: Thunderbolt = 65.43% - 77.16% (Outsped without + Speed)
Abomasnow: Shadow Ball = 66.98% - 78.82% (Outsped)
As you can see, only Metagross, Jirachi, Heatran, Abomasnow and Bronzong are not OHKO'ed (Tyranitar CAN live), and of these, only Heatran and Abomasnow can do anything significant back, unless Jirachi flinchaxes it's way past. Rotom is immune to Explosion, that so many Suicide leads carry, and also Fighting types, and EQ. Rotom is bulky enough to take a hit or two with it's inferior speed, barring possibly Tyranitar, and KO the lead back, especially as most will either set up rocks, or switch. In the event of a switch, anything that is not a Ground type will take a heavy blow from Thunderbolt, those who are not Normals will be hurt by Shadow Ball, and Leaf Storm brings the pain on almost anything else not with a X4 resist.
Bronzong, although a possible 3HKO due to lefties, can hardly scratch Rotom, due to it's low speed, and resistance to Gyro Ball, and Immunity to Explosion and Earthquake. Same with Metagross's Meteor Mashes.
Basically, Rotom can stop about half of the common leads from setting up Rocks, and score a OHKO on half of them as well.
You COULD add HP Fire over Trick, for a OHKO on Abomasnow, and to deal increased damage to the Steels, but Trick aids in later game, where Rotom has been recalled, and sent out against a wall.
I see Rotom-C becoming a new Anti-Lead...
I'd like to see a list of them in USAGE order, if that doesn't cause too much trouble :)
See this post by Doug.
What really is a let down on this lead, is that is only OHKO's Swampert, and that all other leads can set up SR, then switch to something that resists the attack, forcing you to switch. This is more of a gimmick lead than an Anti-Lead, if you ask me.
Apparently a Charizard anti-lead is quite plausible, scaring even Swampert (HP Grass) and Aerodactyl (which usually SR first turn expecting you to switch, leading then to a 2HKO if you carry Focus Sash with it).
Something like this, maybe?
Charizard @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
Mild / Rash
- HP Grass
Base 100 speed outspeeds everything on that list spare Aerodactyl, Azelf, Infernape, and Ninjask.
Sorry, but Charizard won't prevent Aerodactyl from getting a layer of Stealth Rocks up. The point of Aerodactyl in the first place is to get up Stealth Rocks at the cost of Aerodactyl's life.
Also, what can Charizard do that infernape can't do better? Infernape can hit harder on both ends of the spectrum, gets a more useful movepool, and can use more Anti-Lead attacks (Fake-Out, Encore). On top of that, Infernape can actually set-up stealth rocks and doesn't loose 50% of his HP when his opponents do.
I'm really suprised that Ninjask has managed to stay with the top leads for 5 months. I have no idea how they're getting past Taunting Azelfs and Aerodactyls.
Franklin, if you actually looked at the calcs, you'd see that Rotom-C gets multiple OHKOs on the big 12 leads. So I don't know what you're smoking....
Azelf = Sashed
Aero = Sashed
Ninjask = Sashed
LeadApe = Sashed
Swampert = OHKO'ed
T-Tar = Possible OHKO
And, a big thing about this Rotom lead is that it is immune to Explosion. That kills leads such as Metagross, Azelf, and Zong. It is also immune to Fake Out, a common leadape starting move (To break sashes)
Not many leads can handle the top 12, and even fewer can actually prevent the likes of Azelf from getting rocks up, and EVEN FEWER are immune to Explosion (Totaling 0, actually, there are no outspeeding Azelf FO leads that are Ghost types, although T-Tar with Sandstream forces either rocks, explosion, or switch.)
AFAIK, this will counter the 'top 12' leads, although with ninjask it really comes down to luck as it can easily sub after a quick attack, barely survive, and baton pass (I saw this shamin set somewhere a while ago, and just remembered about it) although I think that does depend on which of the berries one takes. I'm also not 100% on the ev's/nature, though, so take it with a pinch of salt:
Occa Berry/Yache Berry
252Hp 252 SpA 4 Att
HP Fire/HP Ice
This should beat Metagross, Azelf, Swampert, Jirachi, Aerodactyl, Infernape, Hippowdon, Bronzong, Tyranitar, Abomasnow (if HP Fire), Gliscor (easier with HP Ice), Gyarados, and Starmie (if Yache Berry). It's worked well for the time that I've used it for (admittedly that's not the lengthiest of periods; I only remembered it yesterday) with a good success rate in beating the opponent's lead. the problem is that quite a few sashed leads can set up stealth rocks, and, although I don't remember if it OHKO's this Shaymin and haven't seen this happen so far, explode (in azelf's case).
I don't know why you're using Quiet. Why not use one that boosts special attack while lowering one of its defenses the least and give it max speed EVs? That way it can still come back in later on and attack with Seed Flare/other attacks.
Because it can take hits better with better defences? It's not my set, and I haven't seen the explanation; It was the nature on the set I first saw, so I posted it here. Feel free to justify a better one.
At the very minimum you want enough speed to outrun Heatran, otherwise your berry is for nothing as he can just Blast you into oblivion.
Also I feel like Celebi does this kind of set better, especially when Grass Knot/Leaf Storm hits the things you'd Seed Flare plenty hard (Ttar/Hippo/Swampert), and he has access to TrickSpecs and SR.