Overwatch - Brigitte used FLAIL!

[HailFall]

I dont think its going to make him significantly worse tbh. I think hook 2.0 is like the perfect version of the hook. Its fair to the people getting hooked, as they can no longer be pulled through space and time while behind cover/on the high ground, and its also fair to roadhog, pulling everyone in close enough to do max damage to (not being extremely inconsistent like before) while also making sure the person gets pulled directly in front of hog. Hog will probably be slightly worse (experienced roadhog players could often compensate for the hook's inconsistencies though combos/getting support from their team in confirming kills, so this is almost a direct nerf for them) but not enough to kick him out of the meta. He still has potential to get an easy kill every 6 seconds and he still has ridiculous hook range, hes just significantly more fair to play against and there are more counterplay options for a good roadhog now.

 

[sunny004]

does hog nerf actually change anything? i did not get the chance to play with him.

I dont think its going to make him significantly worse tbh. I think hook 2.0 is like the perfect version of the hook. Its fair to the people getting hooked, as they can no longer be pulled through space and time while behind cover/on the high ground, and its also fair to roadhog, pulling everyone in close enough to do max damage to (not being extremely inconsistent like before) while also making sure the person gets pulled directly in front of hog. Hog will probably be slightly worse (experienced roadhog players could often compensate for the hook's inconsistencies though combos/getting support from their team in confirming kills, so this is almost a direct nerf for them) but not enough to kick him out of the meta. He still has potential to get an easy kill every 6 seconds and he still has ridiculous hook range, hes just significantly more fair to play against and there are more counterplay options for a good roadhog now.

Just to piggyback on this (as a hog main), the hook fix is meant to improve consistency in roadhog encounters. By removing the BS hooks, while they were fun(ny), and pulling targets in front of hog, it makes it easier to play as and against a hog, because as soon you as you use the hook now, you're pretty much going to know what's going to happen. Either you miss, or you connect and the target gets pulled in front of you. The changes don't affect casual, low/med skilled hogs, just the higher level hogs who knew how to abuse its hook, which means that blizz is pretty comfortable with its position in the meta ATM.

To answer your question 4gb in a TLDR:
Not really, only makes encounters and interactions more fair, more consistent, and less unpredictable. Unless your roadhog strat was explicitly to abuse BS hooks, gameplay should be pretty similar.

 

[Joim]

Well, given the current state of PTR and changes, and seemingly Blizzard wanting to gut D.Va regardless of any opinion against it, I think we are gonna see a resurgence of 2-2-2. Ana nerf is not enough, though.
I'm pretty sure the standard comp is gonna be Rein, Zarya, Soldier, McCree, Ana, Lúcio; seeing Symmetra on point defense, Torb instead of either hitscan in very specific defenses, Zen in place of Lúcio in some specific defenses; dive comps (Winston, Tracer, Genji, Zenyatta, Lúcio, Zarya); seeing also Reaper/Genji/Tracer instead of McCree as the 2nd dps in the standard.

I feel like Roadhog is gonna be use instead of either Zarya or one hitscan in specific maps in which you can use him to maintain the high ground advantage or to secure a pick, like 2cp.

 

[Matthew]

pretty much agree with joim. Though I think it might go a little further into 3/1/2 meta with Ana + Lucio / Zen. Without D.va to melt through Zarya's only use is her bubble since she can still just be burst down via hitscan and her only role would be supporting dive comp. Rein isn't going anywhere but I think that a single tank meta with Rein running the show is what we're really up for. DPS has 76 taking a slot, obviously, with maybe Reaper or Genji filling the second slot, and 3rd goes to whatever. Might be Hog, Mei, or even McCree.

 

[HailFall]

No need to worry it seems, dva will still be good we've just all been using her wrong this whole time. you're supposed to use her to protect an ulting genji, protect pharah mid air (two things no other tank in this game can more practically do, of course), and protect junkrat's tire (we all know the extremely meta junkrat-dva synergy).

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752559736?page=27#post-536

Geoff Goodman said so, it must be true.

 

[bluegrass]

Lol it's like they forgot Zarya exists...

 

[Joim]

After deraking it a little playing offmeta, I'm about to get my smurf to masters playing basically Genji. Let's see how far I can take it playing 100% Genji...

 

[HailFall]

I've been playing a ton of tracer recently. I never really realized it before but i think i have a bit of a knack for her. I don't have like god tier tracking or anything but I don't think my tracking is bad either. I've found that I'm pretty good at evading stuff too, especially good at baiting out flashbang, sleep dart, and hook. I think with some practice tracer is something I might be pretty good at. (On a side note, it's also funny harassing rein players, watching them swing their hammer at me while i stay hopelessly out of their range or blinking behind them if they have their shield up)

 

[Joim]

glad you chose the best hero of all time to reach masters

Already got masters on that account just playing Soldier, but I want to feel the hate of my teammates x)
It's a bit harder to maintain yourself alive than I thought, but I already got it to 3450.

 

[sandshrewz]

As much as I don't mind having one tricks on my team as long as they are decent, I dislike it when people do one tricks just for the sake of doing it / for the lols. Unless said people are actual gods and good at said hero and their performance on that hero cannot be mirrored when they play other heroes, which do exist but are rare. That's irregardless of whether or not said hero is meta.

It's pretty pure nuisance when people want to one trick without being sufficiently good at them to do so, and aren't good enough to warrant teammates to build / play around that player. All it does is make things less fun for their teammates.

So yea for whoever wants to do one tricks, your capability on that hero better be >>> all other heroes or said hero can be an active substitute for another more standard (not necessarily meta) pick and be sufficiently effective in the SR range you play at. If you aren't sufficiently better at that hero who might be more composition reliant and require team adaptation to be fully effective then 9.9 It's kind of a prick to other players imo.

Just my personal opinion anyways. If you think you're good enough at that hero and won't be depriving teammates then by all means go ahead.

/me slaps Joim with a fish >:D

Also Noire is best widow skin !_! pre-order master race haha

 

[Joim]

Me playing Soldier in diamond is basically cheating (as they usually say "wtf aimbot") and is basically boosting my teammates :^)
Playing Genji I'm still above them in skill but at least the match is more even! Can't say it's bad when people say "wow good genji" or the enemy switches to Winston and McCree kek

 

[sandshrewz]

Yea which is why I said 'sufficiently effective at the SR range you play at'. If your skill level exceeds the SR then play whatever you want lol as long as it's okay and it'll be more than suffice. So long as you're playing with lower SR players then w/evs.

But as you mentioned you said you want to see how high you can take it up, which will mean you'll eventually hit an SR where you're just being detrimental to the team playing one trick.

For now have fun and do w/e but understand that you'll hit that barrier if you continue this road.

Also hope no one takes this as a direct insult or w/e, a couple players I think prefer to one trick. It's more of a discouragement to blindly one trick unless you are (already) playing one trick in a non disruptive manner, for which I can't judge for you but you'll have to see fit yourselves.

There's a few sweet spots where one trick is perfectly (almost anyway haha) fine even if other people might not accept or like it~! :)

 

[Joim]

That barrier is top 500 (:
I'm not one tricking btw I do take McCree (still offmeta) when there's an annoying Pharah or even Mei to hold chokes. Just "maining" him.

 

[sandshrewz]

There's a huge difference between doing that and 'playing 100% Genji' u :poop: !_!

/me slaps Joim with moar fishy

But ya my point still stands as a general thing.

Genji v Pharah mid air fights are fun tho. McCree is simply superior to S76 against Pharah. It's more of a counter pick, than off meta pick but w/e schematics.

Also just reminded me how lazily S76 got buffed e_e pls don't buff heroes in this manner again in future unless it's a power level problem.

Should I address top 500?

:thinking:

 

[Joim]

Soldier is so OP and boring I really don't want to play it anymore. Genji has some power against Pharah, but then you're leaving openings below you to finish you while you dash upwards for the sweet shuriken+dash+melee combo that leaves Pharah almost dead xd

 

[Matthew]

The problem with 76 is that he feels no different that any other regular FPS character. He has a machine gun with spread that does damage. The other DPS are much more lively and feel much more unique than just playing 76. Genji has mobility, McCree with his crazy burst, Pharah can fly, Sombra goes invisible, and Tracer has her blinks.

There isn't anything really "cool" about 76 and that's a shame since he's the best DPS now, wish they would change his sprint to something different.

 

[sandshrewz]

memes are real now

 

[Joim]

When a diamond Tracer tries to flank: https://clips.twitch.tv/joimow/JollyWombatBuddhaBar

 

[blitzlefan]

jesus this current meta is so incredibly awful - 3-4 tanks / ana lucio every match; soldier 76 damage is still untouched in the ptr (???) but im ready for ana+dva nerfs to make dps heroes other than soldier 76 playable again. when ttk is like 30 seconds and gameplay boils down to "hold left click as dva / hold right click as rein" it's just not particularly interactive nor skillful

 

[Salt]

7 SR from diamond, 2-2 on ilios, team has 99%, some dude leaves after we lose a teamfight and they cap

mfw

 

[Matthew]

Ana nerf actually didn't change her ridiculous healing. The big change is Dva is dead which gets Reaper back into the meta. Which will make way for other dps. Ana Lucio is basically untouched

 

[HailFall]

im not even sure if it's only dva keeping reaper out of the meta (dva counters 76 too). I think 76 more than anything is making it hard to justify running a reaper when he just does so much damage with better sustainability and range.

also anyone have tips for dealing with soldier as tracer? he's a massive thorn in my side whenever I play against him (fuck helix...)

 

[Joim]

Reaper in any close range fight can destroy most of the cast without reloading. He is gonna be useful in any map or section with close quarters fights or capability to sneak behind enemy lines easily to get a pick and wraith back to team without a D.Va fucking it up.

 

[Matthew]

To go back to this Reaper goes back to his "tank buster / assassin" role. Everything people wish Sombra was is basically reaper but he was just pretty shafted after they got rid of bayblade combo and buffed D.Va.

D.Va eats Repear's shotgun shells for breakfast, makes his ult useless, and can counter wherever he teleports to. D.Va was the perfect counter to Reaper with her buffs and now they're gone so he has a time to shine again. Especially since hook has been changed to what it is, no more hooks from peaking means Reaper is even more safe (if people still run Hog, I'm not entirely sure).

76 is run because he, at this very moment, a better McCree. There is little McCree can do that 76 can't and even the gift of flashbang isn't enough to really justify him unless you're iddqd skills at McCree. He deals more DPS, has a larger clip that deals more damage than the six (assuming you're missing SOME shots), and his kit is overall better. On a pro-level they're probably comparable; it would all just depend on the flavor of hitscan you're really comfortable with running (burst vs. sustained). 76 is better right now because he can handle the tank meta better than McCree; he is able to engange at mid-long distances with his own sources of recovery, his damage falloff is negligible in this game, and his ult pairs very well with Ana's.

We're forgetting tanks do just about the same damage as DPS. Having a mid-long character that can sprint and self-heal in these situations is a fucking boon.

Now, that being said, I don't think tank meta is gone. Blizzard targeted the wrong aspect of Ana's grenade to nerf and it basically means nothing. The burst healing is nice but what should have been targeted is the healing on contact with the grenade and not the healing buff. It makes Ana a 300 HP hero when engaging her, and it is profoundly exploited with a Lucio (or correct me if I'm wrong if it's just Ana's healing). If you halved the healing on instant grenade and kept everything the same (and reduce damage of course) then she would feel much more reasonable than just halving the healing bonus by 50% (which basically means nothing).

 

[sandshrewz]

im not even sure if it's only dva keeping reaper out of the meta (dva counters 76 too). I think 76 more than anything is making it hard to justify running a reaper when he just does so much damage with better sustainability and range.

also anyone have tips for dealing with soldier as tracer? he's a massive thorn in my side whenever I play against him (fuck helix...)

ya this is correct, D.Va isn't the only thing keeping Reaper down. D.Va nerf isn't that huge imo but possibly sufficient. Reaper's not going to be meta but yea there's always been areas where he's an okay pick, and doesn't change much overall in next patch. S76/McCree out range Reaper. D.Va still deters Reaper well enough. IMO Reaper isn't going to see high usage unless teams go back to Rein/Zarya or Winston, since he doesn't actually do too well against D.Va/Roadhog(hook just denies space too much... hook2.0 doesn't change the amount of space it creates).

Viability wise, not sure if you guys are referring to comp or pro scene. Comp is w/e as usual, you can run Reaper any time when the enemy gives you so much free space you might as well take it and 1-2 shot everything. Pro wise, map and composition dependent, and how they want to approach the fight. It's reliant on Reaper team being able to push forward well and make space for Reaper to be effective, and against a composition that doesn't shut him down too hard. Alternatively using him for beyblade value if team is good at melting D.Va.

For Tracer against S76, if you can avoid the helix, that's half the battle won. Typically bait it like you would bait Hog hook. S76 either ding you twice and helix or helix then ding you. Double side/front-back blinking is your friend just don't blink into the helix lol. It's also good if you're already practiced and used to quickly changing your aim after every blink to milk like half a clip between blinks or one clip enemies after consec double blinks. If S76 has heal station up then don't bother fighting him at full health. Just disengage and regain blinks is all you can do.

--

As for Ana, aside from her overloaded super strong base kit, I think nerfing her base heal rate to 60ish wouldn't be a bad idea either. I think Ana needs a change in direction where the difficulty doesn't come from landing shots thus you reward hits with high and burst heal. As for Mercy where she gets high heals for being near to the heal target and limited range, Ana has infinite range but still very easy to land hitscan. I don't think they'd touch Ana's friendly fire hitbox. The change would be that Ana gets less heals because she can heal from a much safer location/manner. That would justify a base heal rate nerf as well and address how strong her basic heal is.