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Pokémon Palossand
- Thread starter KabutopsPwnsAll
- Start date
- Status
Hmm. Well, sorry.
it's just awkward that water compactation does not give water immunity. Sap sipper does it, lightning rod does it, Storm Drain, etc... most of abilities related to types. yet, this one does not. it's a shame cause it would really appreciate it, having 4 immunities would be a awesome thing to have, but alas.
I believe the Absorb Bulb is what we're referring to, but I don't think it actually absorbs the damage of the move. It raises SpA when hit by a water move and is consumed on use.
I mean it raises defense TWO stages unlike those abilities, allowing him to tank physical attacks of any type by halving their damage. If he gained immunity, it'd need to be brought down to a 1 stage boost like those abilities you mentioned.
Wow. I kinda underestimated Palossand. Taking a closer look at its movepool reveals that it has a lot more utility than you'd expect. And it can use its seemingly gimmicky ability because it gets an instant recovery move in Shore Up which is a sand version of Synthesis, Amnesia to patch up that Special Defense, and Grass attacks to help it fight back against Water types. Equally interesting is that unlike most Ground types it also has a usable Special Attack stat.
Clearly it won't be OU, but that's solely because of its modest stats and they are still distributed in a way that compliments its movepool and typing. Palossand could possibly find in a niche in checking passive bulky Water types in lower tiers by fully investing in its Special Defense to allow it to switch into uninvested Scalds while bulking itself up. Might also find a spot Ground and Ghost monotype teams. All in all it's definitely an interesting mon and certainly a better Ground/Ghost type than Golurk.
Clearly it won't be OU, but that's solely because of its modest stats and they are still distributed in a way that compliments its movepool and typing. Palossand could possibly find in a niche in checking passive bulky Water types in lower tiers by fully investing in its Special Defense to allow it to switch into uninvested Scalds while bulking itself up. Might also find a spot Ground and Ghost monotype teams. All in all it's definitely an interesting mon and certainly a better Ground/Ghost type than Golurk.
I've thought of another possible set: A Rock Polish set. Base 35 Speed is awful, but Rock Polish patches that up! Also, Ghost/Ground is a great offensive combo, apart from not being able to hit Normal Flyers such as Toucannon. From an offensive point of view, base 100 SpA isn't bad, and it wouldn't mind Toxic nearly as much as a defensively minded one would. It's also immune to Thunder Wave.
Palossand @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Shore Up
There are multiple options for the last slot that could be used to replace Shore Up: Energy Ball can catch Water-types out, Sludge Bomb hits Grass-types on the switch and Ancient Power or Hidden Power Rock/Ice/Electric can hit Normal Flyers supereffectively. An Expert Belt could replace Life Orb to save more HP.
Palossand @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Shore Up
There are multiple options for the last slot that could be used to replace Shore Up: Energy Ball can catch Water-types out, Sludge Bomb hits Grass-types on the switch and Ancient Power or Hidden Power Rock/Ice/Electric can hit Normal Flyers supereffectively. An Expert Belt could replace Life Orb to save more HP.
Well, it can take an Aqua Jet from Choice Band Azu and then heal itself up because after taking 1 it won`t die to the second due to the boost (252hp, 252 def, bold). At least there`s that, it can kinda check Azu but only predicting the Aqua Jet, switching into Waterfall is not a good idea at all.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 320-380 (85.5 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Though if it`s 1v1 (100%hp) and you do take the Waterfall and live, you can win the matchup if on the same turn you went for Shore Up and you didn`t get the 12.5% chance of the ohko. After that you won`t die from Waterfall thanks to Shore Up and Leftovers. So not that bad, but risky as all hell.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 320-380 (85.5 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Though if it`s 1v1 (100%hp) and you do take the Waterfall and live, you can win the matchup if on the same turn you went for Shore Up and you didn`t get the 12.5% chance of the ohko. After that you won`t die from Waterfall thanks to Shore Up and Leftovers. So not that bad, but risky as all hell.
Works very well for me as a tank or wall breaker especially with the sandstorm shore up boost I get when having orucorio set up the sandstorm
it would be more useful, imo
Can't help but notice this guy seems to like his one use items. How well does he like Z-Crystals? I feel like Z-Stockpile would be a solid setup for a buff with a heal to boot. That's the only viable one I've been able to pick out so far utility-wise.
I don't think Normalium-Z would suit Palossand very well. Z-Stockpile only recovers its HP once, and it still wouldn't stop Toxic users from intoxicating it or phazers from erasing its boosts. Plus it would come at the cost of Leftovers.
I really like this pokémon but its ability is bad. I mean, it's better than useless abilities but you DON'T want to take water attacks. It's not bulky enough nor fast enough to properly use it. But hey, the types is ineteresting and it gets reliable recovery with ok special attack. I can see much more a bulky attacker set or something.
Staraptorand Mega Pidgeot wall this thing to no end.
Staraptor
I can see the leftovers argument but it really doesn't have anything to stop toxic regardless. There's lum but that's just another one-shot wonder. I think Z-Stockpile would be nice if it needs to eat a particularly hard hit (Maybe a special water move or something that's boosted to sweep). That way it can boost it's resistances and heal up all in one turn. I'm just kinda throwing it out there as Z-Stockpile was the only thing that really stuck out to me as being remotely useful in terms of utility Z-Moves.
You know what Palossand's speed stat hits after a Rock Polish at level 100 with that spread? 212. A pathetic 212. You'll need two or even three Rock Polishes to outrun things.
I already considered a Rock Polish set, as mentioned. With Timid nature and 252 speed EVs, it's speed still only reaches 370, which is good but you still won't be outspeeding everything. Golurk has more power as well as a much more varied offensive movepool, as well as a better base speed making it better in every way. Only difference is that Palossand is specially oriented and can heal up. Golurk outclasses it in every other way.
Avant Heim
formerly The Bill Cipher
Does Palossand gets Thunderbolt?Because yes this guy isn't walled by Staraptor and mega pidgeot
It doesn't get thunderbolt, unfortunately.
I have little experience with battle spot singles, but the sets in the OP are probably your best bet for anything singles.
Well there's rock tomb, stone edge, and hidden power for flying/normals. Those would be your best bet.
In Palossand's defense, there were a large amount of physical water attackers introduced in this gen, such as Golisopod, Toxapex, and Araquanid.
If you want to optimize this thing's potential you will probably want to run it in sand. Not sure what the purpose of running it in TR would be since there are a multitude of low speed powerhouses that would probably do a better job anyway.
Palossand @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shore Up
Earth Power and Shadow Ball for STAB, Hidden Power Ice for coverage, as it hits everything that resists both of its STABs and shore up for recovery. The only set I could imagine working in tangent to this would be a specs set or AV set but then you can't use Shore Up. It's too slow to run rock polish, and its signature ability really isn't that good. Just my thoughts.
Edit: Oh right, I forgot to mention that its EVs and nature can be played with to be more defensive. I haven't really given that part much thought.
Palossand @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shore Up
Earth Power and Shadow Ball for STAB, Hidden Power Ice for coverage, as it hits everything that resists both of its STABs and shore up for recovery. The only set I could imagine working in tangent to this would be a specs set or AV set but then you can't use Shore Up. It's too slow to run rock polish, and its signature ability really isn't that good. Just my thoughts.
Edit: Oh right, I forgot to mention that its EVs and nature can be played with to be more defensive. I haven't really given that part much thought.
I cannot be the only person that is considering a Toxic-Trap set.
Palossand @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Shadow Ball / Earth Power
- Shore Up
Do I have to explain why this set would be annoying? It's as simple as it gets: Trap/Toxic the opponent, then follow with the option you did not use (in most situations, trapping comes first). After that, you stall with either attack and Shore Up to heal. With the attacks, you're not entirely Taunt fodder, either.
Palossand @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Shadow Ball / Earth Power
- Shore Up
Do I have to explain why this set would be annoying? It's as simple as it gets: Trap/Toxic the opponent, then follow with the option you did not use (in most situations, trapping comes first). After that, you stall with either attack and Shore Up to heal. With the attacks, you're not entirely Taunt fodder, either.
Why not drop the 3rd slot for Protect? Infest covers you if you get taunted. Really comes to your preference on whether you want the extra sustain or the extra damage though.
Sure, throw that in. I prefer Shadow Ball because it has some actual power behind it, unlike Dusclops (which was the Wisp-Trapper I used before), but Protect is a great slice in.
Pallosand is an interesting pokemon, though it is ultimately held back by its mediocre stat distribution, and typing that doesn't lend itself to true tankiness. Plus, that ability! While it still does have use with a weakness policy or passho berry, it would be so much better if it boosted your sp. defense, then you could invest in your better defense or HP and become a relatively effective mixed wall. As well, it being a special attacker, while unique, I certainly wouldn't have guessed. I guess sandcastles aren't especially physical, but still, a bit odd. I do think it's more of a lower tier pokemon, in singles at least. Perhaps RU or UU, where it won't have to worry about the really heavy hitters. It'll also be good on sandstorm or trick room teams, most likely. It has the tools to succeed, for sure. I rather liked the passho berry set posted before, so I wanted to do my own tweak on that set. Weakness Policy is definitely an option too.
Palossand @ Passho Berry
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Sp Def
Nature: Modest/Relaxed/Sassy
- Shore Up
- Stockpile/Amnesia/Iron Defense
- Shadow Ball/Giga Drain/HP Ice
- Earth Power/Giga Drain/HP Ice
Now with this set you do sacrifice coverage, since the Shore Up is a must, but I feel the passho berry synches well with boosting your defenses. So you come in on preferably a physical water type, take the hit, berry activates then your defense is boosted by two. Depending on how health you have, you can either Shore Up, or try to either stockpile, amnesia, or Iron Defense, depending on what move you picked. I like stockpile for the overall boost to your defenses it gives up. +3 Defense and 1+ Sp. defense is nothing to sneeze at, especially when you have the shore up. And that's what the primary EV spread is for. For the other Passho Berry set, it had max defense investment, which seemed a bit like overkill since you're going to already be getting +2 defense anyway from the water type hit, and so it seemed better to put it into the HP to give yourself the best all around bulk.
Now if you choose to run amnesia, then you can invest in Defense, and vice versa if you choose to run iron defense. Amnesia is definitely an option because then you've got +2 to both defenses which can make you really tough to take out with shore up. Depending on which of those you two you run can also determine your nature. Because let's be real. 100 Sp. Attack isn't that great, even fully invested with a modest nature. So if you want to run this as more just a wall with some offensive presence, then you can invest fully in HP, and either defense, depending on what you are wanting to counter and then go with the opposite defense nature so that you are still getting a little boost to the uninvested defense you are using. Now again, there are better walls out there with better typings and stats, but in a lower tier, it can work, I feel with shore up and the use of the water compaction ability.
Shadow Ball and Earth Power are the obligatory STAB here and can do you pretty well, but you are totally walled by Normal/Flying types, so I just wanted to show other options. Giga Drain is nice, I think, even though you won't be doing a ton of damage unboosted non-stab just because it works with shore up and your defense boosting to make you really hard to wear down. HP Ice is just there for more coverage. Ground/Ice is pretty solid overall, though it would be more for the 4x super effective weak mons out there.
Just as another option, I wanted to do some kind of sandstorm set since Shore Up obviously works well with it. You probably would be better just using Tyranitar or Hippowdon and the above set, but if you were making a dedicated sand team and needed another pokemon that can set it, then Palossand works.
Palossand @ Smooth Rock/Leftovers
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA or 252 SpA / 252 Sp.Def or 4 Sp.Def
Nature: Relaxed/Sassy/Modest
- Shore Up
- Shadow Ball/Giga Drain/HP Ice
- Sandstorm
- Earth Power/Giga Drain/HP Ice
Ultimately not too different from the above set, just using sandstorm in place of the defense boosting move. If only it were part rock, then it would be quite useful in getting the sp. def boost from sandstorm, but we work with what we are given. I think a tankier set is better here because with shore up, you will heal up to full in the sand. When you combine that with leftovers recovery along with the potential giga drain, you will find yourself with a lot of recovery that can serve you well, which is why I have it as the default spread, but if you want to be more offensive, then go right ahead. The choice of item just depends on what you are looking for. Smooth Rock maximizes the full heal of shoreup, but leftovers is more of a longevity-based game, but it depends on what you need.
The other moves are the same, defaulting to your dual STAB, but like I said, giga drain is an option, and then you have HP Ice as potential coverage. Other than that, it's not too different from the above set.
The other set I was considering was a SubToxic set, that again, works best in sand, but it could see some potential as a niche/gimmick set potentially for Pallosand.
Palossand @ Leftovers/Passho Berry
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Defense / 4 Def
Nature: Relaxed/Sassy
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Shore Up
- Earth Power/Destiny Bond/Shadow Ball/Protect/Hypnosis/Infestation
I think this could definitely be an annoyance type set with the SubToxic combo along with the use of shore up and either leftovers for sustained healing or Passho Berry to make the best of the water compaction will turn Palossand into a physical wall. The EV Spread and nature is to make the most of your bulk, again, ideally focusing on Special Defense, though you can certainly mix and match, but I feel like the +2 boost will already do the job of helping you take those physical sets. The last move is really a crapshoot, that's up to you. Earth Power is just to keep you from being taunt bait. DB can be just another form of annoyance and trickiness though you are very passive obviously. Shadow Ball is another stab option, while Protect is good for scouting and racking up toxic damage and ensuring your leftovers, if you're using it. Hypnosis is very niche, but at least you can do something to steel and poison types if you aren't running the earth power. Infestation is an option for trapping and toxicing like another set made use of. Sand Tomb does the same thing, and is stronger and STAB, but it is physical. Then again, it's not like you're running it for the sake of the power. But it's an option worth considering for sure.
Overall, I wish Pallosand was tankier or harder hitting. 100 Sp. Attack isn't that great, especially with no way of boosting it. Calm Mind could be an interesting choice, if it got it, but it doesn't, so eh. 110 Defense isn't bad at all, but if it had just 10 more to HP, and 10 more to Sp. Defense, I'd feel better about its chances of really working as a mixed wall. It still has potential with the ability of boosting said defenses with either stockpile amnesia or iron defense and Water Compaction is a tricky ability but one that can pay off. Ultimately, Pallosand seems like kind of a tricky pokemon to use, but if you know what you're doing, it can serve you well.
Palossand @ Passho Berry
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Sp Def
Nature: Modest/Relaxed/Sassy
- Shore Up
- Stockpile/Amnesia/Iron Defense
- Shadow Ball/Giga Drain/HP Ice
- Earth Power/Giga Drain/HP Ice
Now with this set you do sacrifice coverage, since the Shore Up is a must, but I feel the passho berry synches well with boosting your defenses. So you come in on preferably a physical water type, take the hit, berry activates then your defense is boosted by two. Depending on how health you have, you can either Shore Up, or try to either stockpile, amnesia, or Iron Defense, depending on what move you picked. I like stockpile for the overall boost to your defenses it gives up. +3 Defense and 1+ Sp. defense is nothing to sneeze at, especially when you have the shore up. And that's what the primary EV spread is for. For the other Passho Berry set, it had max defense investment, which seemed a bit like overkill since you're going to already be getting +2 defense anyway from the water type hit, and so it seemed better to put it into the HP to give yourself the best all around bulk.
Now if you choose to run amnesia, then you can invest in Defense, and vice versa if you choose to run iron defense. Amnesia is definitely an option because then you've got +2 to both defenses which can make you really tough to take out with shore up. Depending on which of those you two you run can also determine your nature. Because let's be real. 100 Sp. Attack isn't that great, even fully invested with a modest nature. So if you want to run this as more just a wall with some offensive presence, then you can invest fully in HP, and either defense, depending on what you are wanting to counter and then go with the opposite defense nature so that you are still getting a little boost to the uninvested defense you are using. Now again, there are better walls out there with better typings and stats, but in a lower tier, it can work, I feel with shore up and the use of the water compaction ability.
Shadow Ball and Earth Power are the obligatory STAB here and can do you pretty well, but you are totally walled by Normal/Flying types, so I just wanted to show other options. Giga Drain is nice, I think, even though you won't be doing a ton of damage unboosted non-stab just because it works with shore up and your defense boosting to make you really hard to wear down. HP Ice is just there for more coverage. Ground/Ice is pretty solid overall, though it would be more for the 4x super effective weak mons out there.
Just as another option, I wanted to do some kind of sandstorm set since Shore Up obviously works well with it. You probably would be better just using Tyranitar or Hippowdon and the above set, but if you were making a dedicated sand team and needed another pokemon that can set it, then Palossand works.
Palossand @ Smooth Rock/Leftovers
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA or 252 SpA / 252 Sp.Def or 4 Sp.Def
Nature: Relaxed/Sassy/Modest
- Shore Up
- Shadow Ball/Giga Drain/HP Ice
- Sandstorm
- Earth Power/Giga Drain/HP Ice
Ultimately not too different from the above set, just using sandstorm in place of the defense boosting move. If only it were part rock, then it would be quite useful in getting the sp. def boost from sandstorm, but we work with what we are given. I think a tankier set is better here because with shore up, you will heal up to full in the sand. When you combine that with leftovers recovery along with the potential giga drain, you will find yourself with a lot of recovery that can serve you well, which is why I have it as the default spread, but if you want to be more offensive, then go right ahead. The choice of item just depends on what you are looking for. Smooth Rock maximizes the full heal of shoreup, but leftovers is more of a longevity-based game, but it depends on what you need.
The other moves are the same, defaulting to your dual STAB, but like I said, giga drain is an option, and then you have HP Ice as potential coverage. Other than that, it's not too different from the above set.
The other set I was considering was a SubToxic set, that again, works best in sand, but it could see some potential as a niche/gimmick set potentially for Pallosand.
Palossand @ Leftovers/Passho Berry
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp.Defense / 4 Def
Nature: Relaxed/Sassy
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Shore Up
- Earth Power/Destiny Bond/Shadow Ball/Protect/Hypnosis/Infestation
I think this could definitely be an annoyance type set with the SubToxic combo along with the use of shore up and either leftovers for sustained healing or Passho Berry to make the best of the water compaction will turn Palossand into a physical wall. The EV Spread and nature is to make the most of your bulk, again, ideally focusing on Special Defense, though you can certainly mix and match, but I feel like the +2 boost will already do the job of helping you take those physical sets. The last move is really a crapshoot, that's up to you. Earth Power is just to keep you from being taunt bait. DB can be just another form of annoyance and trickiness though you are very passive obviously. Shadow Ball is another stab option, while Protect is good for scouting and racking up toxic damage and ensuring your leftovers, if you're using it. Hypnosis is very niche, but at least you can do something to steel and poison types if you aren't running the earth power. Infestation is an option for trapping and toxicing like another set made use of. Sand Tomb does the same thing, and is stronger and STAB, but it is physical. Then again, it's not like you're running it for the sake of the power. But it's an option worth considering for sure.
Overall, I wish Pallosand was tankier or harder hitting. 100 Sp. Attack isn't that great, especially with no way of boosting it. Calm Mind could be an interesting choice, if it got it, but it doesn't, so eh. 110 Defense isn't bad at all, but if it had just 10 more to HP, and 10 more to Sp. Defense, I'd feel better about its chances of really working as a mixed wall. It still has potential with the ability of boosting said defenses with either stockpile amnesia or iron defense and Water Compaction is a tricky ability but one that can pay off. Ultimately, Pallosand seems like kind of a tricky pokemon to use, but if you know what you're doing, it can serve you well.
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