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Paraflinching Mega Kangaskhan?

Discussion in 'Battle Spot' started by Storm Eagle, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. Storm Eagle

    Storm Eagle

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    Would this be a viable set?

    Jolly. 6IV. 4/252/0/0/0/252.

    Body Slam
    Earthquake
    Rock Slide
    Power Up Punch

    I wanted to know if it would be viable, or even, better than regular M-Khan sets.
  2. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    The only way you'll find out for sure is trying it out for yourself. If you don't want to spend time obtaining it in-game, check out Pokemon Showdown. I personally have misgivings because this set forces you to lose out on priority and Mega Kanga's power is such that you are better off outright killing targets - I avoid running Fake Out and Power-Up Punch on the same set exactly because I want to avoid running too many low BP moves like this set does. Also, this set only exacerbates getting walled by bulky Ghost types and makes you outright lose to Gengar, Skarmory, and Bronzong. Too lazy to do calcs on Body Slam versus Return but it's safe to say that you'll probably miss out what would be OHKOs or 2HKOs.
  3. EsurioXY

    EsurioXY

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    From a complete nub perspective I think such a M-Khan is counter-intuitive from its normal role. M-Khan is a freaking killer, especially after one PUP, nearly everything that takes normal type damage unresisted is OHKOed. Down from that you've got priority Sucker Punch to potentially defeat, or maim, any would be revengers, access to that be all end all move known as EQ. Tack on that random coverage move and you're set to wreck house against any team unwilling to have a hard counter (of which few exist).

    Paraflinch is all about haxing the opponent to death, you can't really do that when you are straight up killing them each turn.


    I'm talking about singles... if you are talking about Doubles/Trip/Rot well it could be interesting as haxing supporter . . .
  4. Storm Eagle

    Storm Eagle

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    No, I'm talking about singles.
  5. ethan06

    ethan06

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    I mostly agree with the guys above... running this in Triples for Rock Slide spam would be fun (I posted something like this in the BS Triples thread) but in Singles it seems counter-productive. However, I wrote a small thing here for the sake of argument, in case you wanted to try it out anyway.

    An important thing to note is that no-one's really proven that Parental Bond works in the same way as Serene Grace does for absolutely everything... the effects of Power-Up Punch and Rock Tomb would suggest so, but it'd take a lot of testing to confirm. Secondly, Kangaskhan learns Stomp, which is a 30% flinch move, so if Parental Bond works the way we think it does that goes up to 60%, and gets STAB. However, using it in conjunction with Rock Slide would be better so that you have a chance to flinch Ghost-types. Losing coverage isn't such a big issue when you aren't looking to OHKO opposing mons in the first place. It's a shame that you can't paralyse Ghosts with Body Slam if you've already mega evolved, so squeezing Crunch onto there somehow would be beneficial. Let's see:

    Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
    Jolly
    Scrappy -> Parental Bond
    252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
    -Stomp
    -Body Slam
    -Rock Slide
    -Crunch/Power-Up Punch

    y/n?
  6. MythTrainerInfinity

    MythTrainerInfinity

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    Just wanted to note that Parental Bond does not activate on moves that hit multiple opponents in Doubles/Triples.

    That said I do like the Stomp idea because of random Minimize Clefables.

    Mega Kang is awesome at destroying anything. I'm not sure what Rock weak mon is going to withstand a +2 Parental Bond Body Slam aside from Aero, which you can probably just use Sucker Punch on. I'm kinda not sure if you really need Rock Slide... I'd probably replace that with Sucker Punch.

    You may want to opt for a bulkier Adamant spread with 0 Spd EVs because you're talking about a 51% chance to Para here and you'd probably would want Sucker Punch to kill more at +2. You'd probably lose Khan v. Khan without some bulk.
    West and ethan06 like this.
  7. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    Depending on the set, bulky Kanga actually loses to Jolly Kanga if the latter has a fresh Fake Out or the bulky Kanga has taken any prior damage. Generally, the Kanga sent in second will lose.

    252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 127-153 (59.9 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 67-79 (31.6 - 37.2%) -- 83.6% chance to 3HKO

    Granted, the Jolly Kanga needs high damage rolls on both strikes. Because Jolly Kanga's Sucker Punch goes first, it's going to get two hits in; the slower Kanga has no such guarantee. Actually, it's up in the air as to who wins because if the Jolly Kanga only uses Sucker Punch, it may not do enough damage to kill. However, if the Adamant Kanga doesn't threaten with Sucker Punch, the Jolly Kanga could just outspeed with Return for the KO.

    I guess the dynamics change with paralysis factored in but Body Slam's maximum damage roll is almost equal to Return's bare minimum one....maybe not applicable to Kanga vs Kanga, but the difference in power could mean the difference between a kill and taking a big chunk of damage.
  8. EnGarde

    EnGarde I challenge my fate!
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    Hi, depending on you and your opponent's prediction ability, using sucker punch (SP) with Mega Kanga vs. Mega Kanga is very risky. If both use SP and you lose the speed tie, then your SP fails, and you do no damage to your opponent.

    The slower SP always fails.

    You guys probably already know all this, but I'll post proof because I'm a new member and most people don't believe new members. :)

    XBKG-WWWW-WWW7-KP7N

    In this case, you can clearly see the slower mega mawile's SP fails.
  9. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    Welcome to Smogon, hope you enjoy yourself here. Always glad to see new folks talking about Battle Spot.

    However, I am completely unsure what your post has to do with mine. My post was concerning Adamant Kanga vs Jolly Kanga, particularly that bulky Kanga actually loses to Jolly Kanga because the faster Sucker Punch hits, therefore Jolly Kanga is guaranteed to get an extra hit on Adamant Kanga. It seems you misinterpreted the line:

    What I meant by this is the combination of Return + Sucker Punch from Jolly Kanga against 252 HP / 0 Def bulky Kanga is not guaranteed to kill the latter. The slower Kanga, knowing its Sucker Punch is slower and therefore will fail, may not select Sucker Punch. However, if the slower Kanga doesn't use Sucker Punch, the faster one may try and predict that and guarantee the KO with a second Return instead of a Sucker Punch that may not KO.

    Does that make sense or was my explanation too convoluted to make sense? I apologize if it was too confusing.
  10. Temporaryanonymous

    Temporaryanonymous
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    Paraflinch mega kanga is something that's just slightly better than special mega kanga in terms of effectiveness. It's very fun and gimmicky to use, but outclassed. A 51% of paralysis (body slam) and flinch (bite, stomp, headbutt) with STAB is very fun, as is mud slap, but mega kangaskhan does much better just slugging things with a return, especially when bolstered with a +2 boost.
    Age of Kings likes this.
  11. EnGarde

    EnGarde I challenge my fate!
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    Thanks for the warm welcome. :) I actually like playing on the battle spot a lot, though I'm really a pretty average player at best. I finally signed up for an account here because I'm going post an RMT soon for the Think Fast competition, but I still need to finalize my last choices and figure out what questions I want to ask first.

    My post was less a direct response to your comments, and more pointing out that using SP to overcome adamant kang's slower speed is a very risky proposition. I've attempted this before using my mega mawile, obviously with no success. Sorry if my post was difficult to understand. Thanks for explaining further! :)
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  12. Hulavuta

    Hulavuta The Fastest Guy in the Universe
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    I ran into a Japanese player using a paraflinching Kangaskhan team during the Think Fast competition. I don't know if he had Body Slam, but he paired it with a Klefki for a guaranteed paralysis with Thunder Wave. I think it's a good set; my normal answer to Kangaskhan is Rocky Helmet Skarmory which usually takes care of Kangas for me no problem, but since Rock Slide doesn't make contact, she can just flinch you over and over and kill you before you get a chance to Roost or Whirlwind.

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