NOC Paranoia Mafia Game Over - Mafia Wins

[Josh]

This is off topic a bit but Blazade kill was probably because he was the only person that was almost unanimously agreed to be townie; there's no lookouts or docs or anything to worry about so terrorists anything related free to kill the towniest people without worry. I don't really like reading into kills too much because there always the flip side. Take your example. What if fh killed blazade and hoped someone would point out fh killing blazade doesn't make sense? Hell, what if you and fh are the scum team? I don't like putting too much stock into that stuff because it's inconsistent logic

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

As I explained in a follow up post to that, we were still in the very early game and there was a lot of room for error so considering I wasn't especially confident in a Hawkie scum read it didnt make sense to open with that as a lynch as compared to opening with a lynch on beta, someone who I was reading as a decent chance at scum considering lack of posts and someone who to that point hadn't shown anything town like (hawkie had). By the time I considered changing my vote my opinion on hawkie had changed, I no longer scum read him, and that first read was null.

Honestly I thought we'd already had this conversation

 

[Former]

Yeah, I have to concur. As much as it probably doesn't help my case, personally I probably would have killed blazade last night even if I had l limited shots

 

[Former]

And if I was mafia

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Also add me to the group of people who everyone is saying "hmm seems scummy" or is 50/50 without ever actually explaining why they think that

If we didn't have some highly probable scum picks in Aubisio and walrein I'd almost consider lynching myself to clarify the positions I've held, as it stands the mafia won't ever kill me considering how divisive people are about me and I'm an easy mark to spread confusion over.

I'll acknowledge that I've been playing a bit inconsistent within this game and I've known that as it's happened between varying motivation and attention levels around school, work, and other life so I understand where most of the scum leans come from, I'm just more hopeful at thi point that people are considering what I'm saying even if they believe I'm scum.

Except for twin, I don't think it's physically possible for anything I do not to be read as scum by him. There were definitely several times in the early game I was going to post some kind of clarification but held off cause I knew from last game he'd come charging in all "OMG SCUM LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH."

I think I'm going to spend some time going through the thread and trying to iso as many people as I can, walrein is right that I haven't been posting anything incredibly concrete lately (although to answer your question from your post my reasoning is the same as josh+d1 suspicion) and if I'm still around this is a good point to base future reads from.

be back in a couple hours probably unless you respond to this in which case I'll probably respond while isoing and then we'll omgus each other and i won't finish

rip me

 

[Former]

Fyi, I was suddenly interrupted so panicky hit post before I was ready.

Essentially like it was said blazade was the most towny person so it makes sense they were killed and it doesn't really effect if I'm town one way or another

 

[Samoyed]

sleep now

 

[Thetwinmasters]

Texas ISO
#15 RVS votes pancake
#19 Realizes dentricos is in the game after I vote him (This could be faked to appear as if dentricos+texas aren't together in a scum team or if you believe this to be real it confirms they aren't together)
#33 Votes shubaka for no reasoning I can see
#50 Townleans walrein for having pro town logic
#59 Says so far nothing scummy
#60 Says keeping his vote on shubaka after haruno votes him for same reasoning as haruno cause he thinks shubaka doesn't help town no matter what faction (This is so incredibly scummy and is a trend in his future posts)
#78 Asks me why I dislike him says he is keeping his vote on a rand vote because lack of intel and brings up he is consistent to last noc(Where he was an neutral) without being asked if he is inconsistent (This is just him trying to give himself town points lol)
#80 Unvotes rssp1 after he subs for shubaka
#93 Open to other voting strategies that other people come up with (Seems to want to BW on a vote)
#105 Says labeling him with common scum behavior that he is doing doesn't make sense this is all vanillager and that it makes sense for him to be more patient and observant. Defends himself from me and blazade for #93 says bad habit of pre addressing scum arguments that could be brought upon his behavior. Strong town reads Twin cause of being consistent. Slight townleans walrein for driving discussion but is wary of walrein being scum. Thinks blazade and fh/dentricos are slightly opposite of each other but because blazade used good arguments town reads him and suggests FH/Dentricos are slight scum or null. Says aubisio is 65% scum because of his early posts. Calls Hawkie biggest scum read and just says he doesn't like his post. Says probably a scum in the idlers. Votes beta for only posting 1 post instead of hawkie his "strongest" scum read. (This post is just so fucking awful lmfao keep in mind Hawkie is texas's biggest scum read at this point)
#109-#111 Defends his beta vote from josh saying complete silence is more quiet that anybody normal and says odd that josh pointed that out
#118-#119 Asks pancake haruno rssp1 Aubisio for reads
#123 Asks josh to explain his logic of lynching hawkie or aubisio and that a lynch on them would verify the other
#131 Says hawkie isn't inconsistent about his post on aubisio
#133 Says aubisio always idles
#145 Calls out haruno to reread thread cause haruno said inaccurate stuff
#147 Calls out odd things about haruno's post
#149 Says he refuses to tie himself an hawkie lynch even though its his most strongest scum read and then says cause its only a 65% chance he is scum he wants to pursue another road in a 1 post idler lol (This makes me think hawkie is town if texas is mafia cause he doesn't want to have responsibility on a potential hawkie lynch d1 when other people were pressuring him)
#151-152 Doesn't understand how I come to the conclusion about his beta vote now when I pointed it out 50 posts earlier and attacks my reasoning as being crap
#176 Tells pancake and dentricos to start contributing
#178 No idea #105 was so long but says in fairness he had a lot accusations responding to pancake's point about how long posts make people think they are town
#181 Agrees with pancake about dentricos being scummy (I find this weird he is agreeing to pancake at this point considering he ends up lynching him)
#184 Asks blazade to post more
#188 Says if somebody suddenly stops being defensive that screams scummyness in response to pancake liking FH for being less defensive Check if scumreads FH
#190 Calls my reasoning crazy and said he wouldn't come down hard on a vote for only being 60% scum though he went on beta and says there was doubt about hawkie being scum and there was none for beta. (Shouldn't he have strongest scum read as beta then?)
#192 Says it happened in the past and right now doesn't believe hawkie is scum no reason given. (WTF This was also after hawkie started getting less heat on him.)
#220-221 Says beta lynch makes less sense. Guts read pancake as scum says Twin+Blazade Strong towns. asks why wagon on flyhn
#228 Answers what an ISO is
#232 Says he gave his opinions to dentricos
#243 Asks flyhn for top 3 scum reads
#262 Votes Pancake
#297-298 Asks for people to give him questions to respond to (I dislike this but this isn't a main reasoning for why I think texas is scum)
#317-318 Explains his rssp1 and my vote on pancake to pancake
#327 Slight scumlean on haruno in response to dentricos asking
#337-338 Vote count and asks walrein where he is since he hasn't changed his vote on texas from the RVS stage
#341-#434 Points out blazade unvoted
#378 Agrees with blazade too many people happy to jump on beta's defense dislikes Hawkie's emotional argument. Would considering lynching walrein if everybody collectively agrees to also lynch me blazade and haruno and says if nobody flips terrorist in there then would confirm that terrorists don't exist. (LMFAO This is such an awful argument) Says everything about pancake is scummy without explaining why its scummy and his target against blazade a hail mary. Calls me and Hawkie strong towns. FH Lean scum.
Bunch of vote count related shit that doesn't matter
#421 says he is busy
#453 Asks me Why I think there has to be a scum on the pancake wagon(When I only said its more likely there is a scum on the pancake wagon) cause he town reads rssp1+hawkie
#483 Said he pegged walrein as most likely scum of "power players" and because of josh's logic on walrein+haruno should be likely scum. Says aubisio is scummy because he literally done nothing for 20 pages. Insults me for scumreading him two games in a row. Says he intended to vote for walrein but instead votes for aubisio for #482. (This seems like he is trying to BW using Josh's logic)
#485 Says he doesn't care if aubisio posts more cause aubisio's lack of posts is inconsistent with previous play(Its not) Says even if aubisio isn't scum he isn't helping town which isn't much better (This shows with the shubaka vote imo he really doesn't care about voting scums)
#512 Says haruno is #2 after aubisio votes haruno (Never mentioned that before lol)
#521 Says haruno/walrein/aubisio is strongest scum. Brings up we should vote me haruno and walrein in succession. Asks haruno why he thinks FH is scum. (Kinda defensive of FH) Guesses 2 terrorists and it could be walrein+idler.
#526 Says he wants to vote walrein tomorrow even though he would be the 3rd most scum read. (WTF is the logic in this wouldn't he want aubisio or haruno gone tomorrow?)
#550 Says he wasn't confident in hawkie read lot of room for error compared to beta who had done nothing to seem town. (Again why wouldn't he call beta his strongest scum read then?)
#553 Calls out people for explaining why they dislike him. (Hypocritical) Says he would consider lynching himself to clarify his points (Appeal to emotion this isn't towny imo)
Last thoughts are that texas never explained his reads and they seem very bandwagoning to me. Also extremely weird that he never voted FH imo after he pointed out that suddenly being less defensive would make a person more scummy.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Dentricos: First post of relevant content is at #65 targeting Aubisio and slightly defending Hawkie, reasoning is town-lean. Reads post at #115, a bit of a weak post but continues to push on those who initially targeted Hawkie - remains consistent with his prior post/reasoning but raises concern over team defense possibility. Pushes Josh and looks to get other players active until next read at #191 where he posts some reasonable town-oriented logic, pancake support in particular is noob town. Jumps to a Flyhn lynch at #206 unprompted which is a little odd but follows with his previous reads post where Flyhn is one of his scum reads, null post but good push on a target. Nothing until #323 with a big reads post targeting inactives and Josh. His logic on Josh is kind of weak but is a notable target that no one else has really pushed, noteworthy that Josh has avoided any kind of conflict with people to this point. Oddly defends the inactives after listing them as good lynch targets? That's a bit scummy. Is generally supportive of people who post things he finds informative and which he thinks benefit information generation which is town-indicative. Actively opposed to the pancake lynch which I find interesting as I think that makes him unique. BWs the Former Hope lynch here but was away at dealing so is NAI. Lynches Flyhn again at #402. Isos blazade post-mortem in #438 - notable outcome here is that blazade was town leaning Haruno who has been a recent target, blazades target preferences were Aubision, flyhn, betathunder, pancake, and rssp1 as inactives. Dentricos comes to the conclusion that Haruno looks better. Pushes Aubisio at #454 as one of the first people to do so which is slightly towny. Comes off Aubisio at #488 after he responds weakly which I don't personally see as scummy unlike some people *COUGH*TWIN*COUGH*. Pushes Hawkie a bit and posts more reads at #544 where he avoids reading walrein which I really don't like considering the general pressure on him and scumleans me for reasoning I think is p bad but otherwise has good reasoning in posts. Lynches Flyhn AGAIN which is super towny to me considering he's come back to this lynch repeatedly over the course of the game.

Summary: Strong town lean

 

[Josh]

I'd like to point out its not my fault the people I find scummy aren't arguing with me and causing said "conflict". I also don't see how I'm avoiding conflict when I got the entire wagon off of betathunder. Granted, others supported me, but I was the first one to stop that lynch. Eod1 I also got into a mini conflict trying to save pancake.

Fwiw aubisio is the scummiest person itg but I don't see a point lynching him right now. Everybody thinks he's scummy so if he flips town there's no gain. Still probably worth it though, I haven't seen a single person who thinks he's town really.

Anyways, gn

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

@twin #19 was a joke post
re: #526 considering my vote is on aubisio right now the assumption is that he's lynched today and then walrein tomorrow

re: beta/hawkie. beta hadn't posted. definition of a 50/50. hawkie was a 60/40. ergo strongest scumread. but with a greater risk factor at that stage of the game. this is basic english.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Haruno: Only has 19 posts out of 559 that's kind of a red flag before even looking at them :/

RVS and format clarification to start, first real post at #144 suspects me/twin/walrein on decent reasoning, rest of post is mostly misinformed but does provide insight into aubisio apparently being a generally poor mafia player which may lend credence to a super noob town position that he's in atm. Puts a little more pressure on walrein at #155 and iso's Former Hope at #157 the former (heh) consistent with his reads, the latter NAI. Pushes SUPER hard on Former Hope until #166 on the basis of Former's support for the possibility of there being no terrorists. I don't personally think it's an unreasonable thought and this series of posts looks like a pretty severe overreaction so this exchange looks somewhat scummy to me. Nothing of note until a lynch on josh at #373 sans reasoning which is odd, no one had really targeted Josh to this point so NAI which an undercurrent of scum, very hard to read this one. Then lynches Dentricos and then Former Hope AGAIN in quick succession at 425 and #427, #426 is the highlight where he again targets the person who was pushing the idea of possibly no terrorists. Apparently he completely forgot it was Former Hope, the same player who he push so hard against in the early game for the same reasoning. For Haruno to push so hard and then forget to the point that he pushes again later seems very unlikely to me, the more probable explanation was that he picked an excuse for which to target someone in the early game as a town distractor. This looks very scummy. Last post is at #520 - suspects walrein again but doesn't post much else of interest other than parroting popular opinion.

Conclusions: moderate scum read. Interactions with Walrein are curious, I see situations where one or the other is scum and where both is scum, I don't see a situation where both are town

 

[Ampharos]

I'd like to point out its not my fault the people I find scummy aren't arguing with me and causing said "conflict". I also don't see how I'm avoiding conflict when I got the entire wagon off of betathunder. Granted, others supported me, but I was the first one to stop that lynch. Eod1 I also got into a mini conflict trying to save pancake.

Fwiw aubisio is the scummiest person itg but I don't see a point lynching him right now. Everybody thinks he's scummy so if he flips town there's no gain. Still probably worth it though, I haven't seen a single person who thinks he's town really.

Anyways, gn

kinda hard to argue with a gutread like what do you want me to do

also i have no idea what to think of aubisio

twin effortpost feels town, texas efforposts feel townier than he's been except i question the relevance of ISOing dentricos - could just be scum doing busywork to get people to townread them for effort

unvote
vote Haruno

this is in no way letting texas off the hook

but he is posting a lot

haruno is not

and when haruno IS posting it's not very good

i would like him to correct this

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Josh: NAI for the most part in the early game, says nothing of substance until #124 and then says aubisio is slightly scummy for his posts without any reasoning - slightly scummy in context. Continues to post nothing and have no reads until #196 where he posts reads, wait for it, without reasoning. To this point he's posted nothing, defended betathunder, and posted contentless reads. Gives more concrete information at 201 and 217 regarding a Dentricos read which is better. Posts his first major post at #285 where he posts good content on the possibilities of set up considering host balancing confirmed and town reads beta on good reasoning, this looks decently towny although the "good players" target could be seen as defense as Josh himself could be considered a good player having won two straight. Pushes a Flynch at #322 apparently without realizing that Dentricos had been all over that lynch all game. Has spent most of the time either side of this post discussing the previous game irrelevantly. Comes hard on a lynch of former/aubisio/flyhn which is hard to read considering it does stick to the flyhn he'd just pushed but also was pushing popular opinion that he hadn't backed before. Comes to a walrein lynch at #357 after saying he would support despite saying he would only lynch one of the aforementioned three, lynch again without reasoning. Continues to defend beta. Has essentially replaced Former with walrein in the follow up post. Then somehow jumps to a vote on Former at #382 saying it's between him and pancake? This was close to deadline so possible excuse. Votes walrein immediately after start of d2. Says he's set on walrein/flyhn/twin at #402, yet again without reasoning and without ever have previously mentioned twin. And says he'd have pushed for blazade lynch as he was the most towniest. Which makes sense from a certain logic I guess. Back and forth with twin for a bit NAI then says hard scum read on Walrein at #463 AGAIN without reasoning beyond "gut". At #466 reinforces that he wants aubisio and om room gone and then adds in Haruno as scum and in case I need to mention it, once again without reasoning. We're up to aubisio/former/walrein/haruno/twin/flyhn/pancake as strong scum possibilities but beta is definitely not. Finally puts a read to walrein at #476 with good logic imo, similar to what I see. Sits on aubisio again for screaming scummy and then quashes a former lynch at #502 reinforcing his most recent targets. Says OM Room is probably town and aubisio probable scum while lynching haruno at #515 which is consistent with recent posts, explains OM room as having a hard town read on beta and liking OMs posts. Posts his most substantial reads at #528 and...they aren't very substantial. Says where he's at on people but provides no reasoning as to why. At #532 says that twin is his best gut lynch (consistent with #402) but says that walrein/aubisio/haruno are targets because he doesn't see that lynch going anywhere - I don't find that scummy unlike some people *COUGH*TWIN*COUGH*. Defends beta some more and then scum leans me based on my defense to voting beta over hawkie at #542. I find that curious considering it's similar logic to what he used when he didn't vote twin so he should be scum leaning himself if he believes that, I think that's just a genuine oversight though. Also says that he never really believed Former was super scummy which plays out in the previous posts. Resupports aubisio for scum in his last post but says he's probably not a great lynch since everyone thinks he's scum so we don't necessarily gain a lot from it - logic that is reasonable but generally seen as scummy.

Conclusion: Weird. Super super weird. I started this one expecting a comfortable town read but this was just weird. There was just so little content compared to expected for so long and even once the content picked up it was still mostly empty. A lot of inconsistencies. I'm really not sure what I'm seeing here. On the other hand, Josh as scum in neighbourhood was super consistent and definitely had a game plan so I just don't know.

Hard null with town undercurrent as a result of neighbourhood contrast

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

twin effortpost feels town, texas efforposts feel townier than he's been except i question the relevance of ISOing dentricos - could just be scum doing busywork to get people to townread them for effort

I'm going in playerlist order

Hide

1. Dentricos
2. Haruno
3. Josh
4. Hawkie
5. shubaka17 rssp1
6. Thetwinmasters
7. Walrein
8. Former Hope
9. Betathunder OM room
10. Aubisio
11. Flyhn
12. Texas Cloverleaf

Dead:

1. pancake - Village
2. Blazade - Village

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Also before I start Hawkie is he even alive? Last post was 5 AM Friday

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Hawkie: First post at #55 is the pressure on Aubisio and then continues to do so while also defending himself throughout the next series of posts. I didn't like his first post at the time and still don't but it's been sufficiently defended at this point to be fine. Posts suspicion of Flyhn at #144 in what has quickly become a common theme under good logic of flyhn not posting his own content and only pushing others for reads. OMGUS's Former at 168/169 which I read as emotional response null with slight town lean as mafia is less likely to react that way when pushed a possible target.

Intermission: getting tired, apologies in advance if the quality deteriorates from here on

Continues the OMGUS at 172/175 and sort of adds pancake in the process who he gets into it with over the next 30 posts in what basically amounts to a slap fight over nothing. Pushes blazade for reasoning at #198 then asks some good questions of Former Hope at #207. These are very pointed, very pro-town very logical posts that push inconsistencies, strong town post. Buddies beta for good reasoning and scum reads pancake for meh reasoning over the next couple posts, then pushes harder on Former Hope at #222 with again very solid reasoning and reasoning that paints Former Hope in a poor light. Nothing of note until #334 with a pre-deadline re-defense of beta/OM room which at that point was becoming common thought as more came out about other people and his inactivity seemed like a weaker base to go off of. Reiterates pancake and former as top scum reads two posts later. Bunch of nothing then sets lynch on pancake at #353 then swaps back to Former at #387 seconds after voting closed and then he's had nothing of interest until disappearing Friday morning.

Conclusion: His disappearance early in d2 makes this a bit of a tricky situation to read. He's had a lot of posts but the majority of them were empty. The posts that he has had do generally seem towny to me. His reads haven't been too accurate yet, but he's picked a couple of targets for various reasons and tunneled them HARD with emotion and then later with solid logic. His arguments against Former Hope in particular have been very strong and raise a fair amount of doubt over him. It's hard to see a mafia acting as erratically as he has although that's some WIFOM and again the disappearance makes this a tricky situation to read.

Mild town lean

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

btw twin when you're isoing it's generally a good to try to not be a biased as is humanly possible and to present facts as objectively as you can

also re: 181 if the mafia aren't posting at least some thigns that i can agree on they're probably not doing their job lol. i think walrein is a probably scum but he's posted some things i agree with too, even if there's also a lot i don't. plausible deniability my friend

re: #485 whereas shub was early game not helping anyone, at this point if aubisio is town he's actively hurting us. big difference

 

[rssp1]

Also before I start Hawkie is he even alive? Last post was 5 AM Friday

Hawkie has been here (based on communication w/ him on PS/discord) but no idea if he's had free time to post
i'll read all of this stuff in the morning + respond if im not lazy but definitely respond b4 dl

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

shubaka/rssp1: shubaka was completely null. nothing he said was relevant to the game in any form. rssp has 29 posts so far which is the same order as haruno, avg 1 every 20. Nothing until #85 where he votes to lynch pancake because lurking and also has a gut feeling against aubisio. has only nullreads as of #156 (as I recall there were few hard reads posted aside from hawkie until shortly after this post). Big post at #283. First note, ignores 5 people in reads including haruno, flyhn, walrein, and aubisio, mostly all because they hadn't posted but odd after he had his feeling about aubisio before. townreads blazade and twin on good reasoning, other reads are fairly null, town reads hawkie a bit and dentricos a lot on minimal reasoning. Slightly town leaning post for the blazade and twin reads, the rest is generic. Town reads hawkie and josh at #415 without reasoning. Comments on a Former Hope post here that implicates walrein and aubisio as scum. Posts reads at #439 with good reasoning on me, twin, walrein, haruno and dentricos - definitely a stronger towny vibe than his previous reads post. Nothing of particular interest for a while, talking about aubisio and trying to get him to post more with some minor back and forth with people. Posting consistently at this point when the thread is slow to try and spark disucssion which is a decent look. Pushes OM Room scum at #531 on okay reasoning as his last post.

Conclusion: started out not looking very good but has appeared more towny as time has passed, I'm chalking up the early stuff to indifference that has since changed. Mild town read, looking forward to more from you

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

I think I need to sleep now which sucks because twin and walrein are next and I know I probably won't have to motivation to do that before I go to work tomorrow :/

Speaking of, I'll be at work during deadline, I'll probably have the chance to check in around 6 on break time and possibly set my final vote at that point

Cheers for now

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Actually just because I took a quick peek at how many posts he has, here are the only three posts aubisio has made out of 19 (Hi Haruno!) that have had literally any content.

Absolutely nothing concrete to contribute to the game as of #482 yet town leans rssp and scum leans me with no reasoning
#495 responding to Dentricos posting things with no reasoning and tiny gut reading FH while ignoring the previous reads
#508 waffling on a scum read of former hope

 

[Haruno]

when i flip town. get your asses on walrein. ty

 

[Haruno]

walrein's severe lack of posting day 2 bar to try and force a bw on me is suspicious af.

texas going from literally doing nothing day 1 to realizing him not posting is suspicious af in comparison to the last game because he finally realized he played day 1 like shit and out of character to going back to a fuckton of tl;dr to try and cover up what he didn't do prior. Ez pz.

Easy two lynches. I'm 90% sure town will lose by virtue of how this game is set up to ensure town loses but w/e

 

[Haruno]

walrein is obvious scum. texas is blatant partner in case it wasn't obvious. As for the other mafia or two, good luck lol.