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Pas Stunt - 0 Losses

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Stunt, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. Stunt

    Stunt

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Pas Stunt

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    Venomoth (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Shield Dust
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Butterfly Dance
    - Baton Pass
    - Bug Buzz
    - Sleep Powder

    Espeon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Mirror
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Psychic
    - Calm Mind

    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SAtk / 36 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Psycho Shock
    - Recover
    - Draco Meteor

    Togekiss (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 24 SDef / 176 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Air Slash
    - Flamethrower
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass

    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Baton Pass
    - Taunt
    - Substitute
    - Earthquake

    Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Baton Pass
    - Surf
    - Substitute
    - Acid Armor

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Baton Passing was an appealing strategy to me this generation. Not only do I enjoy using Under-Neverused pokemon while I play, the introduction of ridiculous stat increasers (Butterfly Dance, Shell Smash, Gear Change) has taken baton passing into a new level.

    As a defensive minded player, I based my team around Butterfly Dance. Instead of going into Teambuilding, I'll have adequate descriptions for each pokemon's role.

    This team will utilize both the offensive and defensive boosts; the passers are all special based bar Gliscor.

    Basic Baton Pass Etiquette


    - Always stay behind a Substitute that cannot be broken in 1 hit. This way, critical hits should not be a huge issue. Also, Substitutes block status and make for easy predicting.

    - Whenever you are in doubt of the opponents set, assume that he has the worst possible set that can be used against you and make the necessary precautions.

    -
    [​IMG]

    Venomoth (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Shield Dust
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Butterfly Dance
    - Baton Pass
    - Bug Buzz
    - Sleep Powder

    EVS:
    -Max EVs in speed so that Sleep Powder can be used in certain cases. Butterfly Dance can put Venomoth up to 459 speed, allowing him to pass against slower scarfed pokemon.
    -HP EVS are for possible Butterfly Dance passing throughout the game when it is safe behind a bulky sub.

    Role:
    Venomoth is truly the most important passer on this team. The rest of the pokemon carry EVs more defensive leaning because they are hoping for the Sp Def which is passed to them. As the only passer of speed on this team, the other pokemon will rely on Venomoth to make use of their average speed. Sleep Powder is important for Perish Song Politoed, but can also buy you extra butterfly dances if truly necessary.

    WHY NOT SMEARGLE?

    Venomoth boasts better bulk and can get rid of Toxic Spikes midgame. Smeargle is only better in that his Sleep inducer has 100 % accuracy. I don't like to use Sleep Powder unless I really need to.

    [​IMG]

    Espeon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Mirror
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Psychic
    - Calm Mind

    EVS:
    -Max HP for strong substitutes.
    -Max Defense in case Acid Armor is not yet passed.
    -Speed is not included because Espeon reaches an amazing 383 speed with +1 boost.

    Role:
    A must need staple for any baton pass team. Espeon's new ability, Magic Mirror, can deflect any non attack back at the opponent. This will not only help against phazers such as Hippowdon, but it will also completely wall pokemon such as Erufuun. Espeon should be kept in uttermost safety. If the opponent constantly hits and runs on Espeon, it may not be able to survive to fend off a roar. Calm Mind on special walls such as Burungeru, but always stay on the safe side. Espeon can be used to reflect some hazards back as well, if you are good at predicting.

    [​IMG]

    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SAtk / 36 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Psycho Shock
    - Recover
    - Draco Meteor

    EVS:
    - Max HP for maximum usage of Recover.
    - 220 SAtk to deal damage on those who think its a bulky variant.
    - 36 SDef is important to deal with the likes of Borutorosu and Rotom-W.

    Role:

    I am running this single pokemon to counter a demon to this team: Borutorosu. The normal Borutorosu are okay, but when its a taunting variant, it can only spell trouble. Taunting Borutorosu are most commonly seen as leads, so if one shows up, put Latias as the lead. Use Psycho Shock while they Hidden Power Ice, then use Draco Meteor. Don't let the pedophile get away.
    Latias can also be used as the endgame sweeper, when nobody can be passed to anymore because they are in KO range.

    [​IMG]

    Togekiss (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 24 SDef / 176 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Air Slash
    - Flamethrower
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass

    EVS:
    -176 Speed to make use of the Butterfly Dance's Speed boost.
    - 252 HP and 24 SDef to make Togekiss a decent Special Wall.

    Role:
    Togekiss not only acts as a special wall, but also ends sweeps for stat boosters on the opponent side. Togekiss OHKO's SD Scizor with Flamethrower. Hax Rankurusu to death. Air Slash is super effective against Urugamosu. etc. Togekiss can also act as a conservative sweeper, often sweeping the opponents team with just a butterfly boost. He is good for taking Ghost and Ground types.

    [​IMG]

    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Baton Pass
    - Taunt
    - Substitute
    - Earthquake

    EVs:
    - 252 HP to make the most use out of poison heal.
    - 156 Def to wall most threats.
    - 100 Speed to make use of Gliscor's speed.

    Role:
    Gliscor is the main physical wall on this team. It will get passed in and set Substitute on those who cannot harm him and then pass out again. Since Gliscor susceptible to Perish Song/ Haze due to its weak Earthquake, Taunt is carried handy.

    [​IMG]

    Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Baton Pass
    - Surf
    - Substitute
    - Acid Armor

    EVS:
    -Maximum Attack for maximum substitute bulk.
    -Since Butterfly Dance boosts Vaporeons Sp Def to more than respectable amounts, most the EVs are placed towards defense, making it easier to set Acid Armors on physical attackers.

    Role:
    Only means of defense passing on this team. Vaporeon can act as a lead against those like Tyranitar. Acid Armor on the first turn and Substitute/ Baton Pass on the next. Surf Vaporeon with Defense boosts by itself can murder the basis of most sandstorm teams.

    Counters which need to be Addressed:


    Perish Song- Besides taunt, the reason why all the pokemon on my team carry attacks is for perish song. I try to pass back and forth between Togekiss to make sure that perish song pokemon are threatened out at any point of time. Against Murkrow I am helpless, but its usage is low and I have yet to encounter one.

    Haze / Clear Smog - Not commonly seen, but hopefully the pokemon you have out can OHKO the user with its attack. If it doesnt, you can pass the Sub (if you have it) to Latias probably.
  2. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Thunderus with t-wave or whimsicott with stun spore can wreck your passing chains since only Gliscor and Espeon are immune. Thunderus can take out Gliscor with HP Ice so beware. Even if you manage to get speed boosts and baton pass, it can simply priority t-wave or taunt the switch in (unless it's espeon). Sand Stall also poses a threat since most pokemon on sand stall teams are bulky enough to take a hit and phaze you out, ruining your baton pass chain. Oh and your entire team is walled by Blissey/Evolution Stone Chansey since you have no physical attacks except earthquake on Gliscor >.< which won't be doing anything to Blissey/Evo-stone Chansey without any swords dance boosts. I also dislike Latias on your team as it isn't as effective at outright sweeping as say, Sheer Force Nidoking as a baton pass recipient. Nidoking really benefits from BD boosts passed from Venomoth, and can wreck shit up with Earth Power/Fire Blast/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt. With these four moves alone and a few boosts, Nidoking can effectively 6-0 teams without blissey or evo-stone chansey. Again, you need a counter for that, and for Gliscor, you should watch out for ice beam on blissey. I would run swords dance on Gliscor instead of substitute, and perhaps replace one of your special sweepers with a physical one, not sure what to suggest, but you will get owned by sand stall with blissey/evo-stone chansey. You should also watch out for dragon tailers as they are not affected by taunt. Most notably is Resttalk gyara who can absorb sleep and use dragon tail via sleep talk (assuming it hasn't been taunted, although only gliscor has taunt so yea...) There are some major flaws with this team, but I admire your decision to make a baton pass team in this rather hostile new metagame.

    Just some suggestions, hope I helped :)
  3. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,499
    Latias makes a good enough recipient and has perfect coverage with Dragon Pulse, HP Fire and Surf. Draco Meteor is counter intuitive since it lowers your SpA. You want to be able to sweep as long as possible. And yeah, I Would definitely get a Sheer Force Nidoking as it is the best recipient of Butterfly Dance.
  4. Stunt

    Stunt

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    ok Jaroda. First off, I dont believe in "recipients" of baton passes.
    They can be easily countered.

    Latias is not a recipient, but rather a counter to borutorosu (the thunderus the previous guy was referring to)


    ---------

    I'll talk about thunderus last because hes my least favorite to deal with.

    Sandstall teams are easy. I would never stay in to get roared... baton pass to espeon.
    Vape gets many opportunities to set Acid Armors.

    When you say I have no counters to Evo stone chansey, you must be smokin something because they are asking to be setup on!!!! Also ... theres a mistake up there. my espeon has psycho shock now.

    Nidoking will not work because it can get special walled and destroyed. Venomoth and Smeargle cannot pull off 2 Butterfly Dance passes and its the end of that chain.

    Dragon Tailers will have to break subs first. And since all my pokemon have substitute, it shouldnt be a worry.

    ok Thunderus time....
    I consider two sets:
    A lead set-
    Thunderbolt/ Volt Change
    HP Ice
    Taunt
    Twave

    I would send out latias as my lead and Psycho shock it followed by a dmeteor. Latias can take around 4 HP Ice without LO.

    LO set
    Thunderbolt
    Focus Blast
    HP Ice
    Twave

    This set doesnt come out until late into the game, so I should already have the Butterfly Sp Atk (and def) boost and 1 or 2 calm minds. This should be enough to KO with espeon, which reaches 383 speed and can psycho shock off of +2 Sp Atk.




    And I'd appreciate if you tell me the "major" flaws so i can fix them as soon as possible.
    ----------------

    Like the title implies, I haven't lost with this team after it was put together :P
    I don't play on smogon much, so this is mostly PO Ladder :P im 9th there with this team

    Idk I'm looking for more advice on the lines of recovery moves eg. wish , roost
    Some games I barely pulled off a win because all my pokemon were 18 % or less and the opponent had sandstorm and Stealth rocks and I was able to pass to latias who had full health.

    So yeah... recovery moves... I was thinking get rid of Sub on espeon for wish, but crits scare me to death and Espeon wish is only 150 HP passing
  5. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,499
    A simple "thanks but no thanks" would have sufficed.

    Nidoking can run mixed pretty effectively. It's coverage is so great and has such great power that very few mon CAN wall it. Blissey/Chansey aren't all too common and you can run EQ for them. What are the other special walls? Jellicent? Thunderbolt. Latias? Ice Beam. Ferrothorn? Flamethrower. If you don't want to use it that's your call but it is not as easily walled as you say it is.

    Vaporeon and Latias both learn Wish and Vaporeon passes the biggest ones. Half your team has Substitute, I think Wish is an acceptable... substitute... here.
  6. Stunt

    Stunt

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Vaporeon needs substitute to prevent leech seeding nattorei and it can take power whips on its sub after an acid armor. It can also prevent dragon tail from forcing switches. If gyarados switches in on vape, ill be hopeless against it.

    Surf is necessary for STAB against sandstorm teams.

    Latias cannot baton pass wishes and is therefore out of te question.

    Nidoking cannot fend off doryuuzu in the sandstorm and cannot baton pass back in danger. I'd rather have a team which can pass to the various pokemon which can cover each others weaknesses.

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