Patience is a Virtue (formerly "Dragon + Rain = ???")

Introduction

Hey all, this is my first RMT and I’m pretty new to the forums, but I’ve been lurking around the Smogon website as a whole for a couple of weeks now. I haven’t gotten PO until about two weeks ago, I believe. I have been playing Pokemon since Gen II (Crystal), but not competitively because at that age, I didn’t give a damn about competition. I just wanted to have fun. I then got Ruby and Silver and played Emerald. That is when I got a true hold of the Pokemon “system”, if you can find a good word for it. I stopped playing Pokemon during the Sinnoh region (Gen IV) because during HS, Pokemon was uncool, so whatever. Once I got off to college, I started getting back into Pokemon because I missed it and didn’t give a damn about what everyone thought! My mom got a DS XL and I got Pokemon White and everything is pretty much history. I did Random Wi-Fi battles and got sick of it because of all the Japanese players just spamming gimmicky teams and teams with Garchomp/TTar and Politoed/Kingdra. I was using Smogon to build my team for Random Wi-Fi. Then I figured out about PO...

I initially started in the PO server and just trolled their Uber tier with Bronzong, Deoxys-D, Kyogre, Palkia, Cresslia, and Heracross. It was a pretty amazing team, getting me in the upper 300’s as a complete newbie to the PO system and to strategical team building. Then some douche Mod banned me a couple of days ago because my name was “RICK JAMES BITCH”. Eh, whatever. I then found a haven in the Smogon server. I was getting beat left and right and with my ultra-competitive nature, I got pissed. So I did something the spanking and searched a couple of RMT teams here and tested them out. Enough about me and off to the team!


Team Building Process

I tried the Sandstorm team consisting of your basics such as Gliscor, Tyranitar, and Excadrill with some fillers (not Garchomp because he got banned to the Pokemon God tier). I found a couple of rain teams that were enticing because I felt that they were better than the sandstream-based teams (feel free to enlighten me because it might be a false preconception I have). I then found about PK Gaming/Jabba's team called "Enter The Dragon" which can be found here. It seemed like a very well-balanced team and I went ahead and tested it with the exception of Garchomp because he got banned to Ubers. It was well built, but because I am quite the noob, the team got slaughtered every once in a while. I am really going to sign up for the next tutoring session so I can get some insight from the well-established forum members here. On forth to the first version of the team:

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Version 1


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The first version of the team was basically a carbon copy of the joint team concocted by PK Gaming and Jabba. I just went ahead and created the team on PO without really thinking about the possible threats as I just wanted to test it. The difference is obviously the absence of Garchomp. Chompy got replaced by Hydreigon because I just wanted another Dragon to spam Draco Meteor or Outrage (even though Hydreigon doesn't have an amazing Attack stat to really threaten with Outrage). Not much else to say here.

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Version 2




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This is the team that was originally posted. It seems like a great team on paper, but it’s weaknesses just really jump out at you once you play against great (or just OK players). It can easily be exploited by priority moves and completely decimated by DD Gyarados and any (yes, any) sets of Scizor that can switch into a Draco Meteor or Outrage, set up, then hit hard with Bullet Punch. Tyranitar leads were also hell to deal with because many sets now run a surprise Ice Beam which puts me in an early hole which required on hax and dumb switches by my opponent to pull out a close win. Most of the time, I overly depended on Latios to pull out that close win and if Latios was taken out or walled, I was pretty much screwed. Haxorus is really beast, no doubt in my mind whatsoever, but Forretress could just switch in happily at Haxorus’ Outrage and enjoy setting up entry hazards then just Toxic my incoming Poke should I decide to switch.

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Version 3




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The third (current) version of the team. It patched up crucial weaknesses that I had such as Gyarados’ and Scizors setting up. I sometimes run a different lead, but it’s a surprise lead that I like to keep to myself! The Gyarados problem is patched by Gastrodon which can eat all of Gyarados’ attacks and status it then hit hard with HP Electric. The Scizor problem is taken care of by Heatran which just laughs at even +6 Bullet Punch, but has to be extremely careful for those variants carrying Superpower as the Heatran set I use can get OHKO’d by almost any Fighting-type move. I'll explain the team in the specific analysis.


The OG's




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What Up Gangstas



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Deoxys-S @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 96 SDef / 32 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Superpower / Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Trick

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This is probably one of the best if not the best lead in the game. I can’t believe no one else has been spamming Deoxys-S in the metagame. Right from the get-go, Deoxys-S really throws off 95% of the leads, whether it is setting up entry hazards or just attacking. Fancying the opposing Poke a cute scarf is the best way to ruin the synergy of the opponent’s whole team. Ferrothorn? No problem. Forretress? No problem. Skarmory? No problem. Trick is probably one of the under used moves...of all time. Deoxys-S is the best utilizer of Trick as topping out at 600+ speed before using Trick, it is guaranteed to go first unless you’re going against a Prankster lead. Ice Punch is to hit those random lead dragons and Grass-types; Superpower is for those lead attack Tyranitars. Most of the time, if the Tyranitar stays in, you will easily get a 2HKO on it or OHKO if there are no Def EV investment made. Sometimes I just switch Superpower for Drain Punch to increase the longevity of Deoxys-S whom sometimes bail me out during speed vs. speed battles.

The EV split might be a little weird so let me explain. 252 HP is to maximize its bulk so it can effectively be used against the opposing lead. The only way really that it can get OHKO’d by an opposing lead is if I go against a Draco Meteor spamming lead and I make the dumb utilization of Trick, which lets them basically to damage me for free. 128 attack is there to effectively use Superpower/Drain Punch and Ice Punch. 96 SpD is to enable Deoxys to take as much abuse as possible and the 32 Speed lets it top off at 404 speed (before Choice Scarf takes effect).

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Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 114 HP / 252 SAtk / 144 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

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This little dancing appliance has caused probably a fourth of my matches to be won by forfeit and the frustration it causes along with Heatran is understandable. They cover each other’s weakness perfectly. Got a Grass-type Poke salivating at the moment to demolish Rotom-W? No problem. Switch in Heatran and get off a free Toxic or Stealth Rock. Sometimes they won’t switch out, but I’ll get to that later in Heatran’s analysis.

Rotom-W’s ability, Levitate, causes an insurmountable amount of frustration for sandstream teams that like to ride the sand storm of Tyranitar. When utilized accordingly with Heatran, sand storm teams can pretty much say “gg” because just the two can easily beat them. You can switch in Rotom-W against any Hippowdon, Tyranitar, Excadrill, and any users of EQ looking to revenge kill Heatran and OHKO or 2HKO in some cases with Hydro Pump. Sometimes, though, my team is put into a hole when Hydro Pump misses, which happens to me often. It is unbelievably frustrating because my rating is shit because of all the haxing I take. Challenge me if you want to get a critical hit from all your moves (lol).

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Politoed (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
- Hidden Power [Electric]

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"Gosh dammit" is what I want to hear when I switch this in against a sandstream-based team and kill the opposing Tyranitar (when switching in), Gliscor, and Excadrill. It makes my teams' job EXTREMELY easy because I can just have a field day with Latios, however I have to watch out for the remain Poke's that pack Ice Beam. The Choice Scarf ensures that once the opposing Tyranitar is kicked to the grave, it will outspeed almost every sandstream-reliant Pokes, having them die to Ice Beam or Surf. I switched the third move for Perish Song so once Toed is weakened, I can switch him against baton-passing bitches and end them with Perish Song.

The EV spread is also pretty standard with SpA maxed out to maximize the power of Surf in the rain and Ice Beam. Timid nature and the rest of the EVs are invested in Speed to make sure it outspeeds threatening Pokes.

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Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

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I LOVE THIS HEATRAN. It always provides me with a room to fall back on when I go against a Volcarona, Grass-types, and Draco Meteor spamming. This is a pure defensive Heatran that can also hit hard with Heat Wave even under the rain. Heat Wave is so powerful that it can 2/3HKO Ferrothorn under the rain. Speaking of Volcarona earlier, this Heatran set (which I gracefully implemented to my team from ginganinja’s team) can take +4 Bug Buzz like a champ. I just laugh at the Volcarona’s that think they can have their way with my team. Just put in Heatran, poison it, force it to switch out once they realize NONE of their attacks are effective, and just use a free Stealth Rock. Heatran is the perfect teammate for dancing Rotom-W, there (I believe) is no one better. Like I previously mentioned in Rotom-W’s analysis, Heatran pretty much gets a free Toxic or SR up every time when Grass-types switch against it. The feeling of poisoning the opposing team’s anchor is absolutely satisfying. HP Ice provides an insurance against opposing Dragon types that really don’t pack Surf, even though this Heatran can take 2 or 3 Specs boosting Surfs.

This Heatran laughs at opposing Specs Latios’ Draco Meteors. It can take a Draco Meteor all day and hit back with Toxic or HP Ice. That really messes up their team if they depend heavily on their Spec’d or Scarfed Dragon because once their Dragon succumbs to the power of Heatran, I can just toy with them the whole round. Last note, this Poke can just have a day against opposing Cresselia.

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Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunder
- Psyshock

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Oh Latios, how much I love thee? A whole damn lot. This set is pretty common from what I've seen, but it's helluva bitch to deal with. The mammoth 580+ SpA (w/Choice Specs) and the STAB Draco Meteor is absolutely scary. Nothing (barring some SpD bulked Steel-types) will enjoy switching into a Draco Meteor. Surf is there to provide and extra punch once Starmie and Politoed goes down. Shadow Ball can be utilized if you want a failsafe against Reuniculus or Cresselia. Now that I added Rotom and Heatran, though, I don’t have to worry about those. Reuniculus can give this team problems though. I put in a Scizor for Politoed when I want to play anti-weather.

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Gastrodon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 112 HP / 144 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Surf
- Toxic
- Recover
- Ice Beam / Earth Power

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Gastrodon is just my protection against Gyarados which seem to be popping up everywhere. This can eat all the Waterfalls it wants then 2HKO with HP Electric. If they switch out, realizing that they are almost walled by this slug, I can just poison their incoming Poke then switch out. Surf is for the obligatory STAB so it can pose as a threat to the opponents Poke. Recover is there to prolong its life. In my other teams, this can be a Scizor which can also combat Gyarados’ effectively.

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Here is Version 2 of the team for reference purposes:

VERSION 2

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What Up Gangstas



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Haxorus (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Dual Chop
- Earthquake
- Brick Break

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Out of all the dragons to create a team, I was wondering why PK Gaming chose Haxorus. This Haxorus is a complete copy of the "Enter The Dragon" Haxorus. At first, I thought Haxorus to be a poor-man's Garchomp, but damn, this thing is powerful. It has easily become my favorite Poke in OU. I even named this thing "Pimp Daddy Swagga Outrageous". The Choice Band on it is pretty standard as with the EVs, it hits 600+ Attack.

Pros: This thing is an absolute beast with STAB Outrage. The Brick Break are for those annoying Blisseys if my Latios goes down (will explain later) and for those Normal-types. Also good to have it handy to break the screens of Dual Screen Deoxys-S or similar set-up Pokes. The Earthquake are for those pesky steels such as Metagross that will usually resist Haxorus’ Dragon attacks. Dual Chop serves as my main sub breaker, but if Haxorus goes down, I will have to heavily rely on one of my other Pokes and that isn’t really favorable. If anything is SpD based, doesn't resist it, or doesn't outspeed it, it is a scary thing to face. If any Poke is using CM to set-up and doesn't have Ice-type moves, just pop in Haxorus and prepare to watch some Poke pr0n. It doesn't matter who you are, when you watch this thing use Outrage and you watch the health bar go down, you automatically feel aroused. I just hope that Iris' Axew evolves into a Haxorus so I can watch some Haxorus pr0n in the anime.

Cons: The downsides to Haxorus is it is very vulnerable to Pokes when it is locked into Outrage and those pesky ass Scizors that resist all of his attacks and threaten with Bullet Punch and Pursuit. Jirachi’s and Ferrothorn have a field day when Haxorus is locked into Outrage.

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Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Brick Break

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Man has this Dragonite saved me from many games. This is my main replacement for that Hydreigon because I felt that I needed a Dragon that can wall with its bulk and threaten a set-up with DD. I invested the EVs in Speed and Atk with some in HP to threaten immediately against those Pokes left so in that sense, it serves as my late game sweeper once all of it's threats are removed by my other Pokes. +1 Brick Break is very useful for those annoying ass Ferrothorns that set-up on me all the time. It will easily OHKO or 2HKO anything that doesn't resist +1 Outrage or +1 Brick Break. Roost is there to heal off any pesky damage entry hazards have done to Dragonite. Originally, in the place of Brick Break, I had Fire Punch, but I decided to put Brick Break to counter the Ferrothorns of this world. I could have left Haxorus to do that, but it would be just too much to ask of Haxorus because he could get damaged doing a whole bunch of work and once he's taken out, I would be left vulnerable to bulky Steel-types. On last note, Fire Punch was so damn weak in the rain as this is a rain-based team.

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Politoed (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 52 SDef / 200 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Hypnosis

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"Gosh dammit" is what I want to hear when I switch this in against a sandstream-based team and kill the opposing Tyranitar (when switching in), Gliscor, and Excadrill. It makes my teams' job EXTREMELY easy because I can just have a field day with Dragonite or Latios, however I have to watch out for the remain Poke's that pack Ice Beam. The Choice Scarf ensures that once the opposing Tyranitar is kicked to the grave, it will outspeed almost every sandstream-reliant Pokes, having them die to Ice Beam or Surf. I really don't use Hydro Pump except for the "MUST USE" situations because it is so damn inaccurate for my taste. In the 23 times that I have clicked the damn "Hydro Pump" button, it has missed about 18 times. Yeah, talking about hax. I am in no way joking about that miss/use ratio. The Hypnosis is just a filler because I can't seem to find another alternative to it. Maybe a fighting move for the Steels? I'm not sure. Hypnosis, in every time I've clicked it, has missed. 60 accuracy can go f--- itself.

The EV spread is also pretty standard with SpA maxed out to maximize the power of Surf in the rain and Ice Beam. I put some EVs in SpD because there are a lot of Pokes that carry Thunderbolt to try and catch me switching in Politoed. Timid nature and the rest of the EVs are invested in Speed to make sure it outspeeds threatening Pokes.

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Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 136 HP / 156 SDef / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Thunder
- Recover

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How many times has Starmie saved me and screwed me over? I cannot count them all honestly. When it came to crunch time and my Pokes were getting screwed left and right because of all those bitchass entry hazards, I sent in Starmie and just used Rapid Spin and proceeded to spam Surf under the rain. I would just easily use Recover once he took some damage. The EV spread was just split between HP and SpD because if Surf doesn’t KO a Poke with Thunderbolt, I was really screwed because the opponent would spam Thunderbolt while I counter-spammed with Recover. That really doesn’t achieve anything. It is also so useful sending in Starmie against entry hazard Poke’s and just Rapid Spin the threats and proceed to counterattack. However the dilemma I am having is despite the great support Starmie provides in Rapid Spin and boosted STAB Surf in the rain, is my team is extremely weak to Fighting/Fire-types such as Infernape and some Darminitans that run 252 Atk / 252 Speed with CS. They just proceed to OHKO everyone with Flare Blitz. Also, Scizors present themselves to be little bitches against this team with Technician and Choice Band boosted STAB Bullet Punch. This Pokemon is really in question and has a very high chance of getting replaced.

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Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock

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Oh Latios, how much I love thee? A whole damn lot. This set is pretty common from what I've seen, but it's helluva bitch to deal with. The mammoth 580+ SpA (w/Choice Specs) and the STAB Draco Meteor is absolutely scary. Nothing (barring some SpD bulked Scizors) will enjoy switching into a Draco Meteor. Surf is there to provide and extra punch once Starmie and Politoed goes down. I put Shadow Ball there recently for the annoying ass Psychics such as Cresselia that threaten to wall. I haven't seen how much it would fare yet though. Everything is just common for a Latios set. This Poke, when used correctly, is a bitch to deal with, especially if your opponent has no answer for it, just Draco Meteor twice, switch to Toed or Starmie, switch Latios back in and repeat. Oh, before I forget, the Psyshock is there to repel those Chansey and Blisseys that are quite annoying to my special attackers. I haven’t seen much of them, but when they do pop up in the team preview, Latios is going straight out whenever they appear in battle. Nothing else to say because I'm still quite new to the competitive game.

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Mamoswine (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Oblivious
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Stone Edge

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Everyone would love a cute, huggable (albeit very dangerous), pet mammoth. This thing is quite the anti-Haxorus/Salamence/Dragonite/Archeops. It just jizzes all over those Pokes (and similar Pokes) with it’s priority STAB Ice Shard. If it doesn’t OHKO, Focus Sash (assuming no SR are up), problem Dragon will be no problem after two Ice Shards. Meh, honestly this post is just so long I don’t even feel like explaining the set. Just read PK Gaming/Jabbas explanation of Mamoswine here.
 
Yea, Dontagious is right... even in the rain you should have a fire attack. Put like Fire Blast or Fire Punch on Dragonite. You already have Haxorus that can use Brick Break.
 

Nix_Hex

Uangaana kasuttortunga!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
^^^
You do realize that Brick Break has the exact same power as Ferrothorn in the rain, right?
As well as being more powerful coming off of Hax'R'Us's higher attack.

edit: or Dragonite can just use Superpower :-/
 
Ok here goes a rate!

First of all, I like your team, ALOT! But there might be some improvements that could be made so onto the rate.


Haxorus - I like this Haxorus set as it can be extremely powerful. The only thing you might have a problem with in the long run would be the accuracy of Double Chop. 90% accuracy may not seem that bad, but in a crucial situation it may lose you the match. Yet there are some upsides to Double Chop! Obviously it is good for breaking sashes which are a little uncommon with the popularity of Stealth Rock, etc., but it also has a good niche for taking care of Substitutes which may be a problem with this team especially with 3 choiced Pokemon but I like Double Chop a lot. Really the only solution to Double Chop's decent accuracy would be Dragon Claw, but I think Double Chop fits Haxorus' role nicely.

Dragonite - I am in love with your Dragonite! I usually run a bulkier set like this:

Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Brick Break
- Roost

but I like the idea of a more offensive DD Dragonite. Definitely give this set a try though because it is extremely useful and in my opinion better than a more offensive set.

Politoed - My only real issue here with Politoed is the need for two Water type moves. To my knowledge, I do not think Hydro Pump is 100% accurate in rain so I really do not see the need for it especially with an already boosted Surf with STAB and rain. I really have no idea what might be good to replace Hydro Pump, but if it works, keep it!

Starmie - Looks fine the way it is!

Latios - Also looks nice and I like the idea of it in rain!

Mamoswine - Nothing to say there.

Whole team - All in all this team is very nice, with little flaws. But one big flaw I see is a levitate Bronzong weakness. You really have nothing to counter it with supereffective-wise except to just hit it hard with a Spec'd Surf.


This team is really nice and hope these suggestions help!
 
As well as being more powerful coming off of Hax'R'Us's higher attack.
Fire Punch is a Physical move. Therefore, it would do the same amount of damage to Ferrothorn.

NixHex said:
edit: or Dragonite can just use Superpower :-/
Which is illegal with MultiScale.
And no, Dragonite should not use Inner Focus.
Ever.
 
dnite with inner focus is so outclassed by salamence. even an offencive dd is outclassed. if ur gonna use dnite over salamence use bulky dd, or mence does a better job
 
dnite with inner focus is so outclassed by salamence. even an offencive dd is outclassed. if ur gonna use dnite over salamence use bulky dd, or mence does a better job
Well, it depends on just how offensive the set is. If you're using LO, then yes, Mence does it better.
However if you use Lefties, then you can keep MultiScale in a SandStorm and you won't ruin MultiScale if you have to attack early for some reason. In that case, Mence does not out-class it.
 
Well, it depends on just how offensive the set is. If you're using LO, then yes, Mence does it better.
However if you use Lefties, then you can keep MultiScale in a SandStorm and you won't ruin MultiScale if you have to attack early for some reason. In that case, Mence does not out-class it.
I am kind of reluctant in running a Mence set because many teams I've faced run HP Ice or have a Water-type Poke packing an Ice Beam and if Mence doesn't OHKO, it is usually OHKO'd. The same could be said about Dragonite for that matter, however, I wouldn't mind adding Mence with the right set.

Ok here goes a rate!

First of all, I like your team, ALOT! But there might be some improvements that could be made so onto the rate.


Haxorus - I like this Haxorus set as it can be extremely powerful. The only thing you might have a problem with in the long run would be the accuracy of Double Chop. 90% accuracy may not seem that bad, but in a crucial situation it may lose you the match. Yet there are some upsides to Double Chop! Obviously it is good for breaking sashes which are a little uncommon with the popularity of Stealth Rock, etc., but it also has a good niche for taking care of Substitutes which may be a problem with this team especially with 3 choiced Pokemon but I like Double Chop a lot. Really the only solution to Double Chop's decent accuracy would be Dragon Claw, but I think Double Chop fits Haxorus' role nicely.

Dragonite - I am in love with your Dragonite! I usually run a bulkier set like this:

Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Brick Break
- Roost

but I like the idea of a more offensive DD Dragonite. Definitely give this set a try though because it is extremely useful and in my opinion better than a more offensive set.

Politoed - My only real issue here with Politoed is the need for two Water type moves. To my knowledge, I do not think Hydro Pump is 100% accurate in rain so I really do not see the need for it especially with an already boosted Surf with STAB and rain. I really have no idea what might be good to replace Hydro Pump, but if it works, keep it!

Starmie - Looks fine the way it is!

Latios - Also looks nice and I like the idea of it in rain!

Mamoswine - Nothing to say there.

Whole team - All in all this team is very nice, with little flaws. But one big flaw I see is a levitate Bronzong weakness. You really have nothing to counter it with supereffective-wise except to just hit it hard with a Spec'd Surf.


This team is really nice and hope these suggestions help!
Thanks for the constructive criticism PungentFruit! Yeah, I have a pretty glaring Steel-type weakness which I must address. I just thought about it and I might be able to fit Deoxys-S and Heatran to the team. Deoxys-S running a Trick set to ruin the leads with set-up hazards and Heatran to absorb the Scizors of today's metagame and hit hard with Flamethrower. Maybe a Rotom-W to replace Starmie? Rotom could possibly serve to eat the attacks aimed at Heatran.
 
in any case, mence is better offencively over dnite. dnite is only used over it becuase of multiscale and the ability to set up more than 1 dd. ur not exploiting that right now, so use a bulky spread or get rid of it and put a salamence in. after a dd, it outspeed and ohkos most thing that carry ice moves anyway.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Your Starmie is using the old DP speed stat of 352 which puts it tragically behind Thundurus and his 353 Speed stat. Use 224 Spe EVs.
 
Your Starmie is using the old DP speed stat of 352 which puts it tragically behind Thundurus and his 353 Speed stat. Use 224 Spe EVs.
That was an extremely crucial stat I needed and I missed out on barely beating Thundurus. I can't believe it, but thank you so much! I'll make the switch right away.
 
Thanks for the constructive criticism PungentFruit! Yeah, I have a pretty glaring Steel-type weakness which I must address. I just thought about it and I might be able to fit Deoxys-S and Heatran to the team. Deoxys-S running a Trick set to ruin the leads with set-up hazards and Heatran to absorb the Scizors of today's metagame and hit hard with Flamethrower. Maybe a Rotom-W to replace Starmie? Rotom could possibly serve to eat the attacks aimed at Heatran.
I like the idea of Deoxys-S, Heatran and Rotom-W being added too the team but for whom? I was thinking of this (I really do not have too much experience with Deoxys-S so correct me if I am wrong):


Deoxys-S @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 6 HP
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Trick
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

My guess he could be replaced with Haxorus or Mamoswine because they seem like the least needed members of this team. I would say Mamoswine though because Haxorus serves more of a role than him. This Deoxys-S set will hurt Entry Hazards setters a lot by tricking a Choice Scarf onto them. You can also deal some Special Damage and utilize the rain with Thunder.



Rotom-W sounds like a great addition to the team and could be replaced with Starmie as you have already said. Maybe a pretty bulky set should be in order. Try this as a suggestion:


Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SAtk / 144 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
- Hidden Power [Fire]

This set is just the standard Rotom-W taken from the analysis. It serves as a bulky supporter and could definitely take the attacks aimed for Heatran. Rotom-W would serve very well as a replacement to your team for Starmie. It can deal some needed damage and take care of any Heatran counters that could/would KO your Heatran.



Try replacing Haxorus with Heatran and see if it works out. If you still need Haxorus on the team, replace Latios and try that out because they are really just counterpart dragons. Anyways here is a set that I deem worthy as a good set that can handle a lot of counters for Heatran especially Gliscor:


Heatran @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
Timid Nature (+Spd, +SAtk)
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Lava Plume
- Protect / Stealth Rock

As I have said above, this set can take care of any posing threats that counter Heatran such as Gliscor. It can get the job done by taking out any opposing Pokemon. If you decide to use Stealth Rock, you can always deal damage when there's a switch in, and you break sashes with it. This Heatran set is worth a try and hopefully works out!
 
in any case, mence is better offencively over dnite. dnite is only used over it becuase of multiscale and the ability to set up more than 1 dd. ur not exploiting that right now, so use a bulky spread or get rid of it and put a salamence in. after a dd, it outspeed and ohkos most thing that carry ice moves anyway.
Dude, he is exploiting it. He's using Lefties.
Dragonite has almost identical Attack to Mence and even with no investment, his bulk is way better.
Mence is faster, but that's no issue after a couple of boosts.
As I've said, Nite obviously does not out-class Mence. However, Mence does not out-class Offensive Nite either (unless the Nite uses LO, which would be dumb).


@aost:
You said that you wanted a Bulky Salamence DD set. The name of the set is "Dragonite".
If you don't care about bulk and want to kill kill kill, that's when you would use Salamence.
 
One thing I would recommend if you want an offensive Dragonite on a rain team is Choice Specs Dragonite, it is extremely unexpected and Stab 100% accuracy Hurricane is ridiculous with Dragonites boosted 492 SpA (if modest).

Dragonite @ Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spd, 4 HP
Nature: Modest/Timid
Trait: Multiscale
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
 
I have nearly the same team (4 mons) so I like yours. Shell Smash Cloyster unfortunately sweep your whole team .. Maybe you should run a bulkier set for Politoed, and max Speed on Starmie to replace the revenge killing duty of Politoed ?
 
Some of your Pokemon do have counters to Ice, but I think you need a little more than Brick Break and Stone Edge. Mamoswine is still super-effectively hit, and what happens when Dragonite runs into a Swampert that runs Ice Punch? The solution would probably be a Steel-type. Metagross is on my Rain team, and it works beautifully.

Metagross @ Air Balloon
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Nature: Adamant
- Hone Claws / Stealth Rock
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake

Metagross' role here is to take out anything that threatens your team. With 252 HP EVs, he's a reliable switch-in to ANYTHING that resists it and even somethings that are super-effective against it. The first slot really depends, do you wanna waste a turn to hit harder or waste a turn for entry hazards. Hone Claws makes Meteor Mash stronger and hit more often (its got quite annoying accuracy) and entry hazards makes Metagross' job easier. Meteor Mash is strong STAB and sometimes gives you a nice Attack boost. Zen Headbutt is its only Psychic STAB and takes out Infernape, which is quite a threat to him. Don't worry though, you've got bulk and Rain weakening Fire moves. Finally Earthquake, because Steel-types wall you. If you're worried about Skarmory since it's immune to Earthquake, with prediction, you could hit it hard when it Roosts, since that's what most Skarmory run. I've had amazing experiences with it. It takes down Infernape, resists everything SS Cloyster throws at you, it took down Blaziken before it was banned, it's really helpful on a Rain team. I don't know what you wanna take out for it, so that's your choice.
 

AB2

is an absolute ape
is a Team Rater Alumnus
Hey this team seems really cool. The primary issue that I see here is that bulkier steel types may give you some problems. Since this a team that primarily focuses on spamming powerful moves such as Choice Band Outrage and Choice Specs Draco Meteor, teams with multiple steel types are going to be problematic. To be honest, it seems like your Starmie is the weakest link of this team. Although its a very good abuser of Drizzle with its powerful Thunders and Hydro Pumps, it won't really help you fulfill the strategy that you seem to be going for on this team. For this reason, I would try running a Substitute Magnezone over your Starmie. Magnezone has the amazing ability to trap and KO bulkier steel types such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory. With Ferrothorn and Skarmory removed from the picture, your team will have no trouble spamming powerful choiced dragon type moves against your opponent. Although you need Hidden Power Fire to trap and KO Ferrothorn, the worst thing that it can do is get hazards up, which quite a few of your team members are immune to anyways. Other than that, I would try running a Life Orb on your Mamoswine and swapping it to a Jolly nature over Adamant. Life Orb Mamoswine does a really nice job in KOing other dragons, which these types of teams can have a lot of trouble with. Also, Scarf Politoed is much more effective running a set like Hydro Pump | Ice Beam | Focus Blast | Hidden Power [Electric]. Although Hypnosis can be a gamebreaking move, the reliability is not really worth the reward. Finally, I would test a Rain Abuser Dragonite over your current version. Since you don't really have many abusers of the weather that your team provides, you might as well have Dragonite use it to help you clean up teams. A set with Hurricane | Aqua Tail | Extremespeed | Brick Break and maximum attack and special attack would work really well.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Modest 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe Magnet Pull
Substitute | Thunderbolt | Hidden Power [Fire] | Flash Cannon


Other than that, this team seems solid. Good Luck.
 
Thank you guys for all the very...I mean extremely helpful criticisms that you guys have put forth. I'll go ahead and address each post in order:

I like the idea of Deoxys-S, Heatran and Rotom-W being added too the team but for whom? I was thinking of this (I really do not have too much experience with Deoxys-S so correct me if I am wrong):


Deoxys-S @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 6 HP
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Trick
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

My guess he could be replaced with Haxorus or Mamoswine because they seem like the least needed members of this team. I would say Mamoswine though because Haxorus serves more of a role than him. This Deoxys-S set will hurt Entry Hazards setters a lot by tricking a Choice Scarf onto them. You can also deal some Special Damage and utilize the rain with Thunder.



Rotom-W sounds like a great addition to the team and could be replaced with Starmie as you have already said. Maybe a pretty bulky set should be in order. Try this as a suggestion:


Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SAtk / 144 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
- Hidden Power [Fire]

This set is just the standard Rotom-W taken from the analysis. It serves as a bulky supporter and could definitely take the attacks aimed for Heatran. Rotom-W would serve very well as a replacement to your team for Starmie. It can deal some needed damage and take care of any Heatran counters that could/would KO your Heatran.



Try replacing Haxorus with Heatran and see if it works out. If you still need Haxorus on the team, replace Latios and try that out because they are really just counterpart dragons. Anyways here is a set that I deem worthy as a good set that can handle a lot of counters for Heatran especially Gliscor:


Heatran @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
Timid Nature (+Spd, +SAtk)
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Lava Plume
- Protect / Stealth Rock

As I have said above, this set can take care of any posing threats that counter Heatran such as Gliscor. It can get the job done by taking out any opposing Pokemon. If you decide to use Stealth Rock, you can always deal damage when there's a switch in, and you break sashes with it. This Heatran set is worth a try and hopefully works out!
Deoxys-S:I've tried Deoxys-S with random teams I've been playing around with, not specifically this one, the set that I copied from ginganinja's "Consummate Professionals" team and I'll I can say that it has to be the best lead out there. It is extremely flexible and will create massive holes for the enemy team. I've tried it maybe in thirty games these past couple of days and it has pitted well against all sets of Ferrothorn, Lead Lucarios @ Choice Band, Skarmory, Forretress, Blissey, and other random leads. The only problems that lead Deoxys-S really have is against Tyranitars, which can probably be remedied by a couple of changes in the moveset. I'll try yours out and report back on how it has preformed!

Rotom-W: I think with the Tyranitar annoyance I previously mentioned, perhaps switching Starmie for Rotom-W would be the best bet. I would be able to eat any boosted "Crunch" aimed at Deoxys and hit hard with Hydro Pump. I tried a slightly different set of Rotom with a different move other than HP Fire and it posed some problems against steels that decided to set up when Rotom was around. I'll try the HP Fire set and see how well it fares.

Heatran: I like the Heatran set that you posted and is eager in how it performs. I was thinking in running a slightly bulkier set based on HP and SpD of Heatran. Maybe I'll switch out the HP Ice for Dragon Pulse to hit the dragons hard? I was thinking so, just in case my other dragon counters in Latios and Dragonite go down. Stealth Rock is great because I can set up a free SR when I catch a Poke switching out. I might try to fit a Toxic or Will-O-Wisp to catch Pokes switching into Heatran when SR is up already. Heatran, in previous teams I've tinkered with, causes A LOT of switches.

Dude, he is exploiting it. He's using Lefties.
Dragonite has almost identical Attack to Mence and even with no investment, his bulk is way better.
Mence is faster, but that's no issue after a couple of boosts.
As I've said, Nite obviously does not out-class Mence. However, Mence does not out-class Offensive Nite either (unless the Nite uses LO, which would be dumb).


@aost:
You said that you wanted a Bulky Salamence DD set. The name of the set is "Dragonite".
If you don't care about bulk and want to kill kill kill, that's when you would use Salamence.
Thank you for the input. Yeah, I really would prefer Dragonite, but I was just seeing what kind of set he would post for a "bulkier Salamence". I've tried Dragonite with LO and it is counterintuitive because as what I've seen, if Dragonite doesn't OHKO or deal the opposing Poke some damage, the recoil would kick in and they would just hit back with a boosted physical move or a STAB special attack. I found it to be more useful to have Leftovers especially when it is Dragonite left late in the game.

I have nearly the same team (4 mons) so I like yours. Shell Smash Cloyster unfortunately sweep your whole team .. Maybe you should run a bulkier set for Politoed, and max Speed on Starmie to replace the revenge killing duty of Politoed ?
Thank you for pointing that out Mynism. I've seen a good amount of Focus Sash, Shell Smash Cloysters running around a bit. I think if I implement the set of Deoxys-S PungentFruit was suggesting, I think it would be sufficient for it to serve as a remedy against Cloysters. Just running a simple Trick on it I think would suffice.

Some of your Pokemon do have counters to Ice, but I think you need a little more than Brick Break and Stone Edge. Mamoswine is still super-effectively hit, and what happens when Dragonite runs into a Swampert that runs Ice Punch? The solution would probably be a Steel-type. Metagross is on my Rain team, and it works beautifully.

Metagross @ Air Balloon
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Nature: Adamant
- Hone Claws / Stealth Rock
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake

Metagross' role here is to take out anything that threatens your team. With 252 HP EVs, he's a reliable switch-in to ANYTHING that resists it and even somethings that are super-effective against it. The first slot really depends, do you wanna waste a turn to hit harder or waste a turn for entry hazards. Hone Claws makes Meteor Mash stronger and hit more often (its got quite annoying accuracy) and entry hazards makes Metagross' job easier. Meteor Mash is strong STAB and sometimes gives you a nice Attack boost. Zen Headbutt is its only Psychic STAB and takes out Infernape, which is quite a threat to him. Don't worry though, you've got bulk and Rain weakening Fire moves. Finally Earthquake, because Steel-types wall you. If you're worried about Skarmory since it's immune to Earthquake, with prediction, you could hit it hard when it Roosts, since that's what most Skarmory run. I've had amazing experiences with it. It takes down Infernape, resists everything SS Cloyster throws at you, it took down Blaziken before it was banned, it's really helpful on a Rain team. I don't know what you wanna take out for it, so that's your choice.
That Metagross set seems enticing as it can set up on most Pokes and do damage right away. I might run Hone Claws on it if I decide to run it because I already have a SR user in Heatran, assuming I also put him on the team. Thank you for the input most importantly addressing Infernape and Skarmory, as it is my team's glaring weakness. Fabulous set I gotta admit and I'll see which Poke I can kick to the curb to try Meta out.

One thing I would recommend if you want an offensive Dragonite on a rain team is Choice Specs Dragonite, it is extremely unexpected and Stab 100% accuracy Hurricane is ridiculous with Dragonites boosted 492 SpA (if modest).

Dragonite @ Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spd, 4 HP
Nature: Modest/Timid
Trait: Multiscale
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
That's a set of Dragonite I haven't really expected before as all the opposing Dnite's that I've faced are almost exact copies of each other. That's an interesting set, which contrasts differently from the Dragonite set I already run which is quite aimed at setting the pace and letting me control the game by setting up DD, Roost of any residual damage, and hit hard with any of the selected moves. As Llama points out, the success of the Dnite set is going to make me slash my set and include yours instead. Thank you!

Hey this team seems really cool. The primary issue that I see here is that bulkier steel types may give you some problems. Since this a team that primarily focuses on spamming powerful moves such as Choice Band Outrage and Choice Specs Draco Meteor, teams with multiple steel types are going to be problematic. To be honest, it seems like your Starmie is the weakest link of this team. Although its a very good abuser of Drizzle with its powerful Thunders and Hydro Pumps, it won't really help you fulfill the strategy that you seem to be going for on this team. For this reason, I would try running a Substitute Magnezone over your Starmie. Magnezone has the amazing ability to trap and KO bulkier steel types such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory. With Ferrothorn and Skarmory removed from the picture, your team will have no trouble spamming powerful choiced dragon type moves against your opponent. Although you need Hidden Power Fire to trap and KO Ferrothorn, the worst thing that it can do is get hazards up, which quite a few of your team members are immune to anyways. Other than that, I would try running a Life Orb on your Mamoswine and swapping it to a Jolly nature over Adamant. Life Orb Mamoswine does a really nice job in KOing other dragons, which these types of teams can have a lot of trouble with. Also, Scarf Politoed is much more effective running a set like Hydro Pump | Ice Beam | Focus Blast | Hidden Power [Electric]. Although Hypnosis can be a gamebreaking move, the reliability is not really worth the reward. Finally, I would test a Rain Abuser Dragonite over your current version. Since you don't really have many abusers of the weather that your team provides, you might as well have Dragonite use it to help you clean up teams. A set with Hurricane | Aqua Tail | Extremespeed | Brick Break and maximum attack and special attack would work really well.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Modest 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe Magnet Pull
Substitute | Thunderbolt | Hidden Power [Fire] | Flash Cannon


Other than that, this team seems solid. Good Luck.
I've tried a similar Magnezone set before and I liked it when it's threats were gone, but I kicked it off because of all the teams that run HP Fire. I guess I can give Magnezone another shot because I probably will have Heatran to absorb all the Fire-type moves aimed at Zone. I think it was quite stupid of me to NOT have Hurricane, as this is a rain based team. I'll test a Dragonite with that move set and the Dragonite J.V. put in. That Toed is potentially extremely useful because opposing Water-types seem to have a field day with Toed, easily setting up with me not having a viable counter. I'll try running HP Electric on it.

Thank you all for the criticisms as it is all freakishly awesome of you guys to be helping a newbie out here. Hopefully that post wasn't too long as I wasn't able to reply as quickly as planned because of the testing and the familiarizing I've been doing.
 
Sorry for the double post, but I just finished testing my new team barely. I switched out Haxorus, Mamoswine, Starmie with the three that PungentFruit recommended even though I'm running a slightly different set. As for J.V.'s Dragonite, it is extremely useful against those pesky water types, but I'm running Leftovers instead of Choice Specs because I already have a Choice Specs abuser in Latios, which I think is better as it is faster and stronger when spamming Draco Meteor. If other Pokes somehow get around my switches such as Landorus spamming U-turn, I might have to put in Metagross and Magnezone. I don't know for who though.
 

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