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PB&J: Pokemon Battles & Jellyfish [A Tentacruel Discussion]

Discussion in 'Ubers' started by Ditto, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. Ditto

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    [​IMG]

    PB&J: Pokemon Battles & Jellyfish [A Tentacruel Discussion]

    A Basic Look into the Base Stats and Typing

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    Tentacruel is gifted with a respectable 80/65/120 Defenses, focused more in the area of Special Defense. Tentacruel also has a great base speed for the Uber tier (100). This gives it the possibility to outrun non-Scarfed Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Ho-Oh, Dialga, and Giratina. It also has the possibility to speed-tie with Mew, Salamence, Jirachi, Palkia, and Manaphy. One of the biggest reasons to use Tentacruel, however, is it's Poison-Type. With this, Tentacruel has the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes that may have been set down as well as be immune to Toxic. Tentacruel also has 4 helpful resistances (Fire, Water, Ice, Fighting), while only having 2 common weaknesses (Electric, Ground).

    A Basic Look into the Abilities
    Clear Body: This ability blocks any reduction of the Pokémon's stats by the enemy. For instance, Pokémon with Clear Body are immune to Intimidate, but still receive the +2 Attack from Swagger. This does not prevent the Speed drop from Curse, the Attack and Defense drop from Superpower, or any other stat loss caused by the user. It also does not block the effects of Heart Swap, Guard Swap, or Power Swap.

    Liquid Ooze: Absorb, Drain Punch, Giga Drain, Leech Life, Mega Drain, and Leech Seed cause the enemy to lose HP equal to the amount it would have gained.

    Neither ability has too much use for Tentacruel's main purposes, but they are not without their chances to shine. Clear Body can be helpful against Tickle Wobb, as well as Intimidate for any Physical Sets. Liquid Ooze allows Tentacruel to switch into SubSeed Skymin and not only ruin their setup, but turn their own attack against them.

    A Basic Look into the Attacks
    Physical Moves
    Facade
    Payback
    Poison Jab
    Return
    Waterfall

    Special Moves
    Blizzard
    Hydro Pump
    Ice Beam
    Muddy Water
    Sludge Bomb
    Surf
    Water Pulse

    Support Moves
    Acupressure
    Confuse Ray
    Endure
    Haze
    Icy Wind
    Knock Off
    Mirror Coat
    Protect
    Rapid Spin
    Rest
    Safeguard
    Sleep Talk
    Substitute
    Swagger
    Swords Dance
    Toxic
    Toxic Spikes

    As one can see, Tentacruel's main moveslot strength comes from its fair range Support moves. Most of Tentacruel's attacks will fail to put a dent into the Uber tier without some out of boost. For this reason, Tentacruel should focus on its Supporting role. The main advantage of Tentacruel is its possession of both Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes. Both of these moves are in high demand in the Uber tier and only one other Pokemon has both, Forretress, who everyone is preparing for nowadays.

    Possible Sets

    Name: Bulky Spin Support
    Nature: Calm
    Ability: Liquid Ooze
    Item: Black Sludge
    EVs: 252 HP / 138 Defense / 120 Special Defense
    Move 1: Toxic Spikes
    Move 2: Rapid Spin
    Move 3: Knock Off
    Move 4: Icy Wind / Ice Beam

    Tentacruel is not able to do that much damage, so this set focuses solely around the Support that Tentacruel can give. Along with being able to absorb Toxic Spikes, Rapin Spin allows Tentacruel to get rid of all other Entry Hazards. Tentacruel can also set down some relatively speedy Toxic Spikes. Knock Off and Icy Wind were chosen in order to cripple the opponent's Pokemon as much as you can if Tentacruel is still alive after setting up Toxic Spikes and Spinning. Black Sludge was chosen over Leftovers in case an opponent tries to use Trick on your Tentacruel and Liquid Ooze was chosen for the occasional SubSeed Skymin. Tentacruel has trouble dealing with extremely heavy Physical hitters, especially those with Earthquake. It also fears Thunder. For these reasons, a Lugia or Groudon with Whirlwind/Roar makes an excellent partner for Tentacruel.

    Damage Calcs (open)
    Vs Scarf Palkia:
    Taking a Spacial Rend: 34.9% - 41.5% (127 - 151)
    Taking a Draco Meteor: 48.9% - 58% (178 - 211)
    Taking a Draco Meteor (-2): 24.7% - 29.1% (90 - 106)
    Taking a Surf (in Rain): 24.7% - 29.4% (90 - 107)
    Taking a Thunder: 56% - 66.5% (204 - 242)
    Taking an Outrage: 48.9% - 58% (178 - 211)

    Vs Timid Specs Kyogre:
    Taking a Water Spout (Full HP in Rain): 59.1% - 69.5% (215 - 253)
    Taking a Surf (in Rain): 37.4% - 44.2% (136 - 161)
    Taking an Ice Beam: 16.8% - 19.8% (61 - 72)
    Taking a Thunder: 84.1% - 99.5% (306 - 362)

    Vs NP Darkrai (with LO):
    Taking a Dark Pulse: 33.8% - 39.8% (123 - 145)
    Taking a Dark Pulse (+2): 67.6% - 79.4% (246 - 289)
    Taking a Focus Blast: 16.8% - 19.8% (61 - 72)
    Taking a Focus Blast (+2): 33.5% - 39.6% (122 - 144)


    Other Sets to come:
    - ResTalk Spiker
    - Speedy Spiker (Maybe)
    - Swords Dance (Highly Unlikely, but maybe)
  2. calze6

    calze6

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    You should consider clear body as it stops seed flare shaymin a little and random drops from occurring.
  3. shrang

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    But that would let SubSeeding Skymin would eat you alive. It's not like Tentacruel should be fighting Skymin anyway...
  4. bigbluu

    bigbluu

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    This set is similar to the one prior, but I was trying to make an ubers team for the first time, and came up with this set:

    Tentacruel @ leftovers
    calm 252sdef/252hp/4satk
    ~toxic spikes
    ~rapid spin
    ~ice beam (Will 2HKO Rayquaza Groudon (after rocks) and maybe Garchomp (after rocks, i think it will barely leave it with like 3%, and OHKO Mixmence after rocks)
    ~surf/knock off

    I'm new to this metagame, but this seems to be one of his best options in theorymon. I'm still not sure on the ability, though. (It seems to be a moot point, neither seem useful.)
  5. MMX

    MMX

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    tentacruel doesn't need HP Ice. It gets Ice Beam/Blizzard.
  6. tripe

    tripe

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    The only roles I can see Tentacruel actually playing are laying down toxic spikes, and maybe rapid spinning. Although with a weakness to the omni-present thunder and earthquake. Especially since Tentacruel lacks viable recovery and according to your spreads is outsped by most base 90s, which means you outspeed only the supporting base 90s, who can easily take an attack from Tentacruel.
  7. Fizz

    Fizz

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    Black Sludge is a pretty bad idea in general (this is directed at the OP). Any Trick user will, of course, be losing HP for every turn it continues to carry Black Sludge, but can also easily trick it onto another one of your Pokémon, which will likely be stuck with it. It hurts more than it helps.
  8. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Question: What are those EVs accomplishing?


    Infernape...is viable, but rare.

    Scarftran isn't that common, either.

    Same goes for Scarftran.
    Scarftrans: 1.2276%
  9. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    I haven't played Ubers much but I think this set will work better. As Fizz mentioned, Trick users will just Trick Black Sludge onto another one of your walls and still obtain Leftovers. Maxing HP and SpDef is probably Tentacruel's best bet due to all of the hard hitting special attackers in Ubers and Tentacruel's inability to take an Earthquake. Tentacruel will most likely need Ice Beam to do any sort of damage to Giratina-O who will try and block Rapid Spin. Although, I do see how hitting something like Garchomp or Latias with Icy Wind and lowering their speed could allow another one of your Pokemon to counter them more easily.
  10. Critical_Hax

    Critical_Hax

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    Could make an interesting Lure for Kyogre with Mirror Coat and Wacan Berry, but I think Tenta's role in Ubers is more to just Spin and Spike. O the top of my head, it can't wall anything really. Draco Meteors of 150 Base SpA are too powerful, it lacks the attack stats to sweep effectively and there obviously weakness to Thunder and EQ. I can see it switching into Scizor though, but then it loses SpD, since it can't really handle a neutral, let a lone a super effective neutral hit.
  11. calze6

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    Generally, forry's better.
  12. shrang

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    Getting rid of Toxic Spikes without having to Spin is pretty epic, though. I'm quite sure that pretty nice 100 Speed could into play somehow too.
  13. tripe

    tripe

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    The 100 base speed isn't that useful, especially when you have to sacrifice bulk. With no reliable recovery, don't give me that rest bs either, Tentacruel can't outspeed anything worth while. Getting rid of toxic spikes only aids stall really, offensive teams don't really care about it. Weaknesses to some of the most common attacks really make me think twice about using Tentacruel in the first place. 80/120 may seem good, but without wish support, draco meteors/thunder will wear down the squid and quickly.
  14. Nails

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    Clear body seems like the better ability. If Skymin is subseeding on tenta, you're getting free setup, so such activity would want to be encouraged. Plus, rapid spin removes leech seed and has more PP for stall wars. Additionally, you have Ice Beam/Icy Wind for sub breaking so SubSeed Skymin is actually one of the few pokemon tenta beats (unless it has earth power, then it loses either way).

    That being said, it's outclassed by forry (more utility, dragon resist... ect). To make it not be outclassed, you have to use its one major advantage, the fact that acually outspeeds stuff. I'm not sure exactly how this helps though... most base 90-100s don't carry taunt. Maybe the fact that it can threaten gira-o (min SpA ice beam calcs would be nice) and potentially other things with a somewhat speedy ice beam?

    Edit: I ignored knock off, and while useful, especially in ubers, it makes tenta setup bait for various things that it would be able to force out with surf. Plus, spikes/rocks (forry) > knock off.
  15. akira95

    akira95

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    The mixed spinblocker giratina-O takes 28~34%
    and on all his other sets does about 22~26%
    so yeai dont think tentacruel is gonna be doing much to giratina-O ecspecially if it has leftovers and that tentacruel has no recovery , bar rest
  16. Declanp

    Declanp

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    I've been testing a set out on PO and found it to be quite supportive to the Stall team i've been running

    Set Name : Speedy Wacan Spiker
    Tenatcruel @ Wacan Berry
    Ability : Clear Body
    Evs : 4hp/252spe/252spD
    Timid Nature

    -Rapid Spin
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Knock off/Surf/Sludge Bomb
    -Icy Wind/Ice Beam

    Any combination of the last 2 slots will be fine. this set adds nice Ice/water resistances..and with wacan berry..it can set up on Kyogre (be careful when switching in) Evs Max speed while giving the best SpDef walling capbilties (like who's gonna let tenta take a physical hit) i find its able to set up nicely.

    Knock off screws people over. Like garchomp eagar to come in to lose his scarf and revenge killing capabilties. Icy wind does the same thing but does some damage to the dragons (gira-O might not like her speed being lowered) and the other 3 are general attacking options...personally i use icy wind/knock off and it serves me well...not a weak link on the team..but i provide wish support with blissey
  17. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    I think could have some potental, but to outspeed with that 100 base Speed, you need to sacrifice Bulk, which is rather unfavorable. Than again, Forretress does it with less Speed. Removing TSpikes opon switching in is big too, and his ability to Rapid Spin is also. Albeit, the weakness to Eletcric is terrible, and it allows things like Plakia to get passed it. Forretress doesn't have this problem, because Physical Attackers don't usually pack Overheat/Fire Blast, and Rain Is everwhere.(Forry can also switch into Outrage and set up free TSpikes/Spikes)
    Also, he pretty much has to switch out against any physical sweeper too.

    Overall, I think he is viable, just don't expect him to be a Blissey.
  18. locopoke

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    Tentacruel seems really useless to me. The only set that I can see working is the speedy spiker set since it actually outruns pretty much everything that isn't scarfed in ubers, barring Darkrai, Skymin and Mewtwo, and sets up Toxic Spikes with ease. It can take people by surprise because a lot of players forget that Tentacruel has base 100 speed. I would honestly never use it but I remember mien getting far in a Smogon Tour with Tentacruel on his team, you could ask him about it if he's still around.
  19. Darkamber8828

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    Giratina-O can't hold lefties, only that orb thing it's too late to spell.

    Er, yeah, all I wanted to say.

    Actually, why would Tentacruel resttalk when it's 2HKOed by anything investing in an offensive stat?
  20. calze6

    calze6

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    As a speedy spiker, it is outclassed by qwilfish.
  21. McNUTTY

    McNUTTY

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    If Rain's up yes, but if not Tenta is better. This means that Tenta has more usability at all points in the game, and Tenta also is more defensive and is able to take on some attackers and set up on them.
  22. calze6

    calze6

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    Rain is so common that that is easy to take into account. Some basic kyogre support easily can fix that. I'm merely pointing out the use of qwilfish is better as a speedy spiker than tentacruel.
  23. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    I highly doubt that Tentacruel would run speed, though, because it really needs to salvage every EV on bulk if possible. If you make it fast, you might as well use Qwilfish.
  24. Venser

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    It's worth noting that Black Sludge is pointless, because after they Trick it off you, they can just trick it right back onto something else.
  25. Farewell

    Farewell

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    Um, why not just use the right support? Groudon - Makes Thunder less accurate, and if Tenta is using Ice Beam, Knock off, Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes, it wont worry about Sun weakening surf.

    Worried about Black Sludge? Use Giratina-O (keeps its item and blocks Rapid Spin), and have Arceus on your team and since Tentacruel is weak to Thunder and Earthquake why not use a Grass Arceus? It cannot lose its item, and resists Tentacruel's weaknesses.

    If you don't want Grass Arceus, keep in mind that Giratina-O already resists Tentacruel's weaknesses, and Groudon is Immune to Thunder, so Arceus can be any type you want. You can also have a Steel Arceus since it can help take Dragon hits and Recover.

    So, next is having a Wish supporter... How about Latias? It can handle Kyogre, and support your team, plus it's HP Fire, if it uses it, is boosted by Drought, so it can handle Scizor and Forretress who may try and Rapid Spin or Pursuit. Latias also resists ALL of Tentacruel's weaknesses!


    So Lead Groudon, Tentacruel, Giratina-o, Latias, Arceus [Grass or Steel], and finally decide what your team will need most... perhaps a physical wall that can pseudo haze? Lugia.

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