1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

[Peaked #1] Objection!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Shurtugal, Feb 17, 2013.

?

Should I make another RMT next month?

Poll closed Mar 5, 2013.
  1. Yes

    53.6%
  2. No

    46.4%
  1. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    [​IMG]


    The Team

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    Because Deoxys-D will probably be banned, I thought I would share my very own Deoxys-D team. I made it long ago with CTC to make requirements last suspect test, but ultimately IRL stuff got in the way and the variation system sucked for the duration I was on. However, I've consistently hit 1500s on PO with this team, and when the ladder reset I laddered "seriously" and hit number one. However, I let that alt decay because I'm mostly studying and I ended up just laddering on different alts to test and eventually just didn't care about maintaining the number one spot. This team is pretty good and I personally enjoy'ed using this team. In my opinion, this team has no weakness to team matchups alone unless the opponent as like 3 specific threats, but even then smart playing allows this team to beat virtually everything. I've begin to lose interest in this team though since it's quite easy to win with so this suspect test is almost relieving. ​

    Process (open)

    [​IMG]
    I started this team with Deoxys-D since hazards make sweepers very threatening. I prefer the Mental Herb + Thunder Wave variant since its great for both crippling opposing sweepers and preventin others from setting up taunt in its face.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    I added Gengar to add the infamous DeoGar core, and decided on the sash variant. Since SubSD Terrakion can give my current one problems, this one can come in and Destiny Bond or simply KO the ladder and has a decent chance vs. Starmie.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    This is probably the MVP of this team. I added ThundyT since its so easy to set up with a bulky set. Get this, ThundyT can set up easily on the following Pokemon: Starmie, Forretress, Tentacruel, Scizor, Lucario, and Jellicent. Do these Pokemon have any relevence? Of course they do! They're the biggest threat to all DeoD teams and ThundyT has no problem setting up on either of them, as well as murdering rain offense / rain stall teams.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Keldeo came because of the great synergy it brought to the table. I chose the EB variant so I could run both Rain Dance and so I could catch the opposition off guard. The EB set works so well with this team because the hazards can put everything into KO range for its EB coverage, and ThundyT helps get rid of virtually all of its counters. By beating Tyranitar and in general being a pain for SandStall to face (since ThundyT hates facing them), I felt it was a good addition. With Rain Dance, I can easily stop a sun sweep as well.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    SubSD Terrakion is only adding to the synergy of this team. It consistently can abuse hazards while appreciating ThundyT's ability to eliminate Scizor and Breloom and Jellicent. Terrakion can manhandle sand offense and it can provide some good lategame sweeping with its salac berry. It's also a great Pokemon to hit Ninetales with, as everything else really just hates anything in sun as only Keldeo can resist fire attacks.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Choice Scarf Jirachi fills the next bill, and it's quite important. It can resist Tornadus's (both formes at the time this was built) STAB, and can also tank a few Dragon hits. With Zen Headbutt, I can beat Toxicroak and Keldeo with enough ease as well as check SD Scizor with Fire Punch. Its a great revenge killer (and Dragon Slayer) and it's U-turn utility is amazing for grabbing momentum.



    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Pressure
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 SDef / 236 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Thunder Wave

    Overview
    Deoxys is a suicide lead. Usually I will try to predict the Gengar lead and lead off with my own so usually I'm always in a good matchup. I can usually get SR + 1 layer of Spikes up on the field, but sometimes I can rack up para-haxes for an extra layer (example: Scarf Politoed gets paralyzed and misses Pumps, etc.). Deoxys-D is a great Pokemon to check Venusaur since I run Thunder Wave so I'll generally try to keep its health in check when I see sun teams. Stealth Rock is the most important move in the game; seriously, how else are you supposed to deal with Dragonite and Volcarona? Spikes is there for the additional damage racking (fuck you stall). Thunder Wave is great for hitting Laitos / Latias / Politoed / Scarfers / Terrakion / etc. and I've found the utility quite useful.

    Why Mental Herb set over the Red Card?
    I prefer the utility of the Thunder Wave and its crippling capabilities. I've never liked playing mind games with Magic Coat since 50/50 tosses in the beginning of the match is not something I like to encounter at all when I like to play lax my first three turns. Bri recommended I use the Red Card variant for SubSalac Terrakion but I find that I much prefer the utility of Thunder Wave and that I have enough checks for it already.




    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Leviate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Destiny Bond
    - Taunt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    Overview
    He's a decent spinblocker. By playing rather offensively with him and being bold he can be quite effective. His ability to check Terrakion is pretty neat, as well as his ability to cripple stall and opposing Deoxys-D with his amazing taunt. Destin Bond alongside Taunt is a great means of eliminating SubToxic Tentacruel early game as well as netting extra KOs on slower set up Pokemon like CM Keldeo, SubSD Gliscor, SubSD Terrakion, SD Breloom, SD Lucario lacking Bullet Punch, and other useful Pokemon. Shadow Ball is a great STAB and Focus Blast actually hits quite hard than one would suspect and they both have decent coverage's.

    Why Focus Sash over SubSplit or SubDisable
    Gengar's ability to Destiny kill SubSD Terrakion and slower spinners is quite important. SubSplit has lost merits in my opinion in this metagame when Disable is just much better, and SubDisable struggles vs. spinners in general which is why I've opted to use SashGar instead.




    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 40 HP / 96 Def / 252 SpA / 16 SDef / 104 Spe
    - Nasty Plot
    - Agility
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Overview
    Thundurus-Therian is an underrated sweeper. Hazards make it ridiculously easy to set up a sweep. I don't really care much for bluffing a choice set with Expert Belt since Leftovers provides so much bulk. At 100%, after miracolously getting +6 / +2 on DeoD, a priority core of three Pokemon (Lucario, Dragonite, Scizor) could not KO me, just so you get an idea of its insane bulk. The EVs are from BKC so props to him, and although 152 HP might seem like its equivalent; this spread is slightly more physical bulky, which is major important for tanking priority attacks. Thunderbolt is used since I don't own rain (and even if I did I would use Thunderbolt) because Thunderbolt is great for hitting outside of rain (beats any team if you can successfully set up with SR + 1 Spike). ThundyT is amazing at beating most of the top threats used to beat DeoD archetypes.

    Why Double Dance and not an EB Bluff or Choice set?
    Because they can't get a midgame sweep or abuse the hazards nearly as well as Thundurus-T can, not can they set up on common spinners and threats to DeoD. The Specs and Scarf set kill offensive momentum with their choice'd attributes while the EB set is just weak.




    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Justified
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Rain Dance

    Overview
    This thing is amazing. Icy Wind is used over HP [Ice] to abuse the ability to switch attacks and KO faster threats. Hydro Pump offers an incredibly powerful STAB to use, and Secret Sword is great for pumping those KOs. Blufing a choice set is great on this DeoD team since the hazards put everything into KO range and I can easily swap out attacks in crucial moments. The most important thing this set does though is use Rain Dance. It stops sun teams cold (it lives Giga Drain from Timid LO Venu as it only does 83%). Its amazing utility and synergy with ThundyT an its ability to wreck both sand stall (Amo after SR + 1 Spike and sand damage is 2HKO'd by Icy Wind doin around 46%).

    Why Expert Belt over Choice Scarf or CM?
    CM is too slow paced for this team and (bar the fact that I already have a scarfer) the Choice Scarf set just can't beat sun, which otherwise threatens me so badly. The utility to both Rain Dance and netting surpise KOs (or simply damaging crucial Pokemon; say I go from Hydro Pump to Secret Sword to smack Wash for 47%, etc.) I've found that even if my opponent knows I'm EB that its still quite threatening with RD present to remove Stout + Venu sweeps and its excellent coverage's that prevent Pokemon from setting up on the usually-choiced Keldeo.




    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Justified
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    Overview
    This guy is amazing at abusing hazard support as well as appreciating its teammates' ability to check and counter Scizor, Breloom, Skarmory, Hippowdon, and Jellicent. Beating sand offense and generally being a good answer to sun if I can get rid of their blasted Chloro sweeper, Terrakion is an amazing addition to this team. I often use it to get lategame sweeps with its salac berry, typically abusing the hazard support Deoxys-D brings. Swords Dance and Substitute are a great combination for breaking stall, alongside Salac Berry to go on latesweeping. Close Combat and Stone Edge abuse Dual STAB and can make quick work of teams unprepared for this top dog threat.

    Why SubSalac over Double Dance or Choice Band?
    This set can lategame sweep to the extent where neither of its counterparts can. Choice Band ruins offensive momentum when I'm forced and locked to use one attack, while not gaining much coverage in return. I've found the power difference in this case is really redundant since hazards are all I need anyway and Substitue is enough to help with stall regardless.




    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Serene Grace
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    - Iron Head
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Fire Punch / Ice Punch
    - U-turn

    Overview
    This Pokemon is amazing at revenge killing. Zen Headbutt is both unexpected and incredibly useful for hitting Toxicroak and Scarf Keldeo. Iron Head can abuse a strong STAB that can flinchkill many Pokemon under the support of SR + Spikes. U-turn allows me to nab momentum with hazards, which is quite awesome. Fire Punch vs. Ice Punch is really the question here. Fire Punch beats down in case Scizor gets +2, but Ice Punch easily knocks Landorus / Garchomp / Dragonite, etc. I use both so feel free to test this out yourselves! It greatly synergizes with the team as it can beat down on Toxicroak, quite a big threat, as well as fast Dragons like the Lati twins. It's ability to use U-turn is amazing for pulling momentum for ThundyT.

    Why Scarf over the bulky set?
    Because the bulky set doesn't hit the speed tiers I need nor can it abuse hazards like my fellow Scarf Jirachi. Being able to revenge kill dragons is super important as well as hitting that much-needed speed tier.


    Conclusion

    Deoxys-D, you will be missed. I'm happily retiring this team so you all can use it before Deoxys-D hits the ban (but even if it doesn't I'll probably never use this team again). This team is packed with fast-paced threats as well as having almost perfect synergy. I guess Sun Stall can be quite annoying to face as well as Amo if it isn't in sun. Swords Dance Scizor is also quite annoying but ultimately I have enough checks to it. Chlorophyl sweepers are the biggest issue so I always just try to get up Rain Dance after Ninetales inevitably uses itself as death fodder.

    I would like to give a few shoutouts to a few users:

    CTC: For originally getting me started with this team.
    Princess Bri: For giving me suggetions (despite me not really liking Kingdra over Keldeo, the LO really puts a strain on it)
    Alexwolf: For playing with the team before I RMT'ed it and for being a good friend XD
    Lavos Spawn: For giving me a good reason to retire this team

    Be sure to Luvdisc :P

    Importable (open)

    Deoxys (Deoxys-D) @ Mental Herb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 SDef / 236 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Thunder Wave
    - Taunt

    Thundurus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 40 HP / 96 Def / 252 SAtk / 16 SDef / 104 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Agility
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Keldeo @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump
    - Icy Wind

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - U-turn
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Ice Punch

    Terrakion @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 248 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    Gengar (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Destiny Bond
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Taunt

    Wumbo in Chains likes this.
  2. Z e s h i n

    Z e s h i n

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Hello shurtugal!

    Congratulations to the team, very cute and funny as well as very decisive!
    Well, but honestly effettuerei these changes moveset:

    I would rate it ice punch> fire punch to Jirachi!

    Good! Luvdisc. :)
  3. victinivcreate1

    victinivcreate1

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    139
    Wow I'm impressed!

    You probably noticed these things, but 3 of your pokemon are weak to Psychic moves. While you do have a 4x resist and a 2x resist,Sash Alakazam running HP Ground 2HKOS Jirachi, and 2HKOs Deoxys-D with Shadow Ball

    then Zam is free to use Psyshock and crush Gengar, Terrakion, Keldeo and 2HKo Thundurus-T.

    And while T-T survives, priority is common and Mamo/Scizor/Lucario can come and use Ice Shard/Bullet Punch/Extremespeed and dispatch Thundy.

    However, as for switching mons, I have no sugestions.

    The only one i can think of is switch Thundurus for Lightning Rod Zapdos (once it gets released,gaining much better bulk), but you lose significant power and some speed (but no Landorus is gonna stay in on a Zapdos)
  4. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,434
    Great team Shurt!

    I've actually got quite a similar one myself I was thinking of RMTing, utilizing Deo-d+Terrak+Thund-T. Plus they're sets are all the same xD, though I've now stolen your Thund-T spread, I was using the cookie cutter 152 HP one myself.

    I've gotta say that Deo-D set is definitely its best one, almost always leaves you with an advantage. For me, that set is why its probably going to be uber. Also as an aside your importable has Jirachi using U-Turn over Healing Wish. That was going to be my main recommendation because(though this is my personal belief) I've never found Healing Wish very useful and U-Turn, especially on this Hazards stacking team, is awesome! I did a few games on PO using the version in the importable and U-Turn was super handy in almost all of them. It leaves you in so many good situations, in the dozen or so games I did, Jirachi's U-Turn gave Thundurus-T so many perfect set-up opportunities.

    Anyway I was gunna recommend U-Turn over Healing Wish but since its in your importable I'm not sure it counts :)

    Great team bud! I left a lil luv'

    edit: my team was deod/terrak/thund/scarf jelli(woo!)/cb scizor/eb hydreigon
  5. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    @ Z e s h i n

    Thunder Wave Deoxys-D is better than Red Card because of its ability to always give me momentum and to leave me in the better position, as I make clear in the RMT. Yah I'll go with Ice Punch over Fire Punch :P

    Thanks.

    @ Victini

    No time no see! :) With U-turn on Jirachi (I meant to put U-turn over Healing Wish in this RMT but I was listening to music >_>) Alakazam isn't that threatening, and its also quite rare to find.

    @ Joeyboy

    Hey :D yeah I meant to put u-turn but I brain farted and wrote Healing Wish instead >_>. Its certainly the superior choice, as I'm sure you noticed :) Just curious but what was the rest of your team after the core (feel free to PM the answer to that)? I'm glad you liked the team (ThundyT + DeoD is really OP :P) and thanks for the Luvdic!

    Going to update OP with U-turn
  6. pokemoniseasy

    pokemoniseasy

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Hey Shurt,
    Great Team and awesome synergy. I personally like the Keldeo set. (might use it in the future) This team covers mostly all the threats in OU but one problem I see is Keldeo's Hydro Pumps in the rain. (Even though we talked about it in the MVP channel) It deals with the majority of your team mainly 2hkoing your entire team barring Deoxys-D but if I suggest another Pokemon it would ruin your synergy. So, overall this team is great and congrats on your peak. This team deserves a Luvdisc. So, a luvdisc from me :]

  7. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,978
    Hey Shurt,

    This is a pretty solid HO team and there are few weaknesses. The only troublesome things I see are Scarf Keldeo in the rain and Lati@s with a Life Orb HP Fire. I think you can play around Lati@s, so I will focus more on Keldeo. Now like most HO teams, changing a sweeper will really hurt your team synergy, so I think changing your spin blocker could be more useful. I suggest running Jellicent > Gengar. Now you may be initially opposed to this as Jellicent slows down your team quite a bit, but Jellicent provides so much utility to your team. You lack reliable Water-Type resists making Choiced Hydro Spam very difficult to face, especially when in rain. Also for the most part your team is very fast, so I think the loss of Gengar's speed shouldn't be too much of an issue. Specially Defensive Jellicent is simply a better spin blocker as well, really only losing to LO Thunder Starmie which Gengar already has no chance vs. Jellicent like Gengar can also act as a mini stallbreaker, and additionally spread status with Will-O-Wisp, helping the rest of your team setup. I understand that running Jellicent may sound weird and you will be initially opposed to it, but give it a shot, I think it will do really well for you. Anyways, cool team and gl.
  8. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Hi!

    Ill just "complete" the dragonuser rate, indeed i had the same feeling about rain teams in general. Jellicent could be really a great addiction for your team, but, i doubt that you will ever take in account to change it to a specially defensive variant. Instead, i think you can try a more offensive set, which is the trick room one. Personally, i tried many times and it always did its job great, and sometimes it can even sweep by its own. Since its offensive, you wont lose much momentum, and you will not be setup fodder for many things.
    Here is the set in case you wanna try it:

    [​IMG]

    Jellicent @ Life Orb
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Hydro Pump
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    - Trick Room

    Hydro pump its relatively hard, and with max special atk it reaches 295 ( more or less the starmie sp. atk, so its not thaat weak ) shadow ball is your secondary stab move to hit hard starmie, but it can be replaced with ice beam if you feel its better. Recover lets you stay in longer, so that your opponent cant stall you with the life orb and its general your better choice in this set.

    Gl, hope this helps and great team!
  9. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,835
    Hello there Shurtugal,

    Very cool team you have posted here so props for it. However, speaking about it, I see that you are a little weak to Choice Scarf Keldeo because if your Keldeo is already weakened, the opposing Keldeo must simple click Surf to win the game and I think that this is pretty bad since Choice Scarf Keldeo is very common in the current bw ou metagame. Therefore, I suggest you to use Calm Mind Baton Pass Celebi replacing Thundurus-T because Celebi can switch into Keldeo quite easily so it can help you a lot to deal with it. I'd change Thundurus-T because Terrakion and Keldeo form a really great offensive core together so I shouldn't change them and I shouldn't change Jirachi and Gengar too because they are your revenge-killer and your spin-blocker respectively, obviously I can't change Deoxys-D because it's the most important member of your team since it supports all your sweeper with Stealth Rock and Spikes. In short, I'd change Thundurus-T because it's the most useless pokemon on your team in my opinion. An EV spread of 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe with a moveset of Calm Mind, Baton Pass, Giga Drain and Hidden Power Fire, with Calm nature and with Leftovers should work fine on your team. I'd use a Calm Mind Baton Pass one because with Calm Mind and Baton Pass Celebi can support Keldeo which is the star of your team, a Keldeo with the Special Attack and the Special Defense boosted by a Calm Mind is simple a war machine. Then, I'd move 4 EVs from HP on Def on Terrakion because 4 EVs on Def (or on a different statistic from HP) allows Terrakion to activate Salak Berry with Substitute. In general, don't use Substitute Salak Berry Terrakion with 4 EVs on HP because they make harder Salak Berry's goal to boost Terrakion's Speed. As last thing, I agree with Zeshin's suggestion to use Ice Punch on Choice Scarf Jirachi because Jirachi is your only revenge-killer and you can only revenge-kill dragon-types such as Dragonite, Salamence, Lati Twins and so on with its Ice Punch, dragon-types are really common nowadays so Ice Punch can really useful.

    Other than that, congratulations on your peak and good luck with your team. Luvdisc'd.
  10. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    I just want to say something to all the raters posting in this thread (it does not apply to all of you, but it does for some), but think not only of the threats of my team but what threats I gain in return for whatever Pokemon you are replacing. With that said:

    @ Celebi:

    ThundyT just does too much for me to replace it for Celebi. ThundyT sweeps rain easier, breaks stall, abuses hazards, and Celebi is more of a liablity that can check Keldeo. I can see why you would suggest it but from extensive use of Pass Celebi on other teams gives me the experience to safely confirm that it doesn't belong on a DeoD team. Thanks for the rate though! :)

    Before I entertain the Jellicent switch (which is not a bad idea), I want to explain my thought process of dealing with Keldeo:

    I am not afraid of Rain Scarfed Keldeo. Please keep in mind that Keldeo is a revenge killer / lategame sweeper and will usually not show itself at all during the beginning, and most of the midgame. On a rain team, I can set up an early sweep with ThundyT and usually beat any rain team carrying Keldeo so long as I can set up (and its stupidly easy to do as well... at least, before this team was RMT'ed. I haven't used it since so maybe people can predict it but it worked before). Point being is that since ThundyT can generally sweep most rain teams after simply hazard stacking my first three turns that I am not afraid of rain variants since I can usually end the game before Keldeo comes in.

    I do worry about Non-Rain Scarf Keldeo. Keldeo outside of rain means that I cannot sweep with ThundyT as easily. If I can keep either DeoD or Scarf Jirachi healthy, I can usually cripple it with either Thunder Wave or Zen Headbutt respectively (since after hazards Zen more or less OHKOs). Since Keldeo is used as lategame sweeper (or occasionally towards midgame), I can try to prepare +2 / +1 Terrakion or a +2 / +2 ThundyT sweep beforehand. My EB Keldeo can come in as fodder to some of its non-rain hits and Secret Sword it for some decent damage, while hazards can whittle it down into KO range. Any Keldeo locked into Secret Sword is set up bait for ThundyT while Hydro Pump ones pray they can both hit and that I'm weak enough from Keldeo to be 2HKO'd (not always the case), while surf is too weak outside of rain. It takes a lot of playing around and a lot of skill, but usually I can play around it. Since people assume my Keldeo is scarfed (before this RMT), I could easily bluff a speed tie and scare it out as well.


    @ Jellicent Suggestion:

    I would like to combine DU and Neil's suggestions if anyone wants to replace Gengar with Jellicent. I would want it like a bulky piviot with LO, with no Trick Room. TR is really bad on this team, but LO isn't really. The reason why I prefer Gengar is because of its speed tier, ability to break stall / bp teams with taunt, and its ability to net those important KOs with Destiny. Jellicent really slows down the team so I've always found it better to just play around it with smart players and predictions as I liked the face version I got in return for playing on the 50/50 coin flips. While Jellicent indeed helps with Hydro Pumps, remember that HO teams don't mind sacking useless members as well as ThundyT usually getting early sweeps on rain anyway. While Jellicent really helps with Keldeo, you lose that face-pace synergy I have going as well as losing the ability to check SubSalac Terrakion (if it sets up on DeoD your really fucked and your forced to scout and play offensively early-game, something I really hate.


    The Jellicent suggestion is a good replacement but I overall prefer the fast play of Gengar. Thanks for all the suggestions and rates so far! Leave a luvdisc if you used my team :)
  11. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,960
    jellicent would definitely be cool on this team, since (as du pointed out) the scarf keldeo weakness is really glaring. under rain with rocks up, which is an easy scenario to maneuver into since deo-d lacks magic coat, keldeo can simply spam surf for a 2hko on anything (minus your keldeo which doesn't bother opposing scarfed variants, and if a thundy sweep is your best check to the thing, something needs to change). jellicent is the best way to preserve the integrity of the team and cover up that flaw. it should also improve your chances against rp landorus, which sweeps with two layers of hazards and sand force active. i propose the standard sdef set:

    jellicent @ leftovers
    trait: water absorb
    evs: 252 hp / 160 sdef / 96 spd
    calm nature
    - taunt
    - will-o-wisp
    - scald
    - recover

    that's all i have for you now, shurtugal. cool team, i hate to suggest replacing dbond gar...i think it's for the best, though. later :toast:
  12. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    I'll test out Jellicent and have more feedback on it later (since admitting I haven't used it much). Regardless though I'm just glad to be retiring this team for the best :) Thanks for the rate.
  13. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    I forgot to mention that no means yes and yes means no! (Jk lol but what gives XD)
  14. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    442
    Very cool team.I especially liked the RD Keldeo for dealing with sun.I had used a RD+3 attacks LO set in a team of mine to get reqs during Garchomp restest and I must say your ebelt set has more utility.

    Scarf Keldeo looks to be a major problem imo.I know Thundy-T can easily sweep with agility against rain teams but it is a rather risky tactic. Another weakness I see is that you have no reliable way of dealing with Gastrodon and Quagsire. Quagsire in particular can give you a lot of problems if it can get up stockpile or a is a spdef curse variant.A SD Breloom over terrakion can should patch up these weaknesses and can remain as a potent late game/mid-game sweeper.With priority Mach punch it can help you take on Scarf Keldeo as with Hazards+smart switching,Keldeo comes into Breloom's mach punch KO range.

    Good Luck.
  15. Razza

    Razza

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    454
    I like this team seems to have great synergy, although i feel as if stall teams can give you real trouble in the hands of someone who is decent, what were your experiences with stall on the ladder?
  16. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Stall?

    Gengar gets this wonderful move called Taunt and Deoxys-D's hazards can typically wear most stall teams down. ThundyT can set up on most of stall's members as well as easily break them down with NP (since most of them are slow + hate hazards.

    I tried Breloom when Bri recommended it over ThundyT and it made more holes than it fixed but thanks for the feedback :)
  17. CedOmega

    CedOmega

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    Hey Shurtugal. Wonderful team you have here! So wonderful in fact, that my only suggestion would be to change Leftovers on Thundurus-T to Lum Berry. I've found paralysis to be very annoying to have to deal with while setting up(especially when it kicks in at a crucial moment). That's about it, really. Great job and best of luck. Btw, Luvdisc'd! :)
  18. Ricky Horror

    Ricky Horror

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2012
    Messages:
    254
    Paralysis, yea by thunder wave. Volt absorb? Doubt stun spore is ran on other pokes besides whimsicott.
  19. CedOmega

    CedOmega

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    Was referring to Jirachi's infamous Body Slam.
  20. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Lum Berry is an interesting option.

    Body Slam from Jirachi is admittingly annoying; however, leftovers really helps tanking Donphan's Ice Shard and other random hits. I'll test it out.
  21. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Bump.

    Show Hide

    Will reply to Pms when not on iPod

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)