1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Pelipper (QC Rejected 2/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Cherub Agent, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,010
    Look how cheerful I am, please don't reject me :heart:

    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    - an effective Rain Dance abuser
    - base 85 SpA means that Water-type moves hurt (only 5 less than the p0pular Ludicolo)
    - good base 100 Defense gives it bulk
    - Rain Dance + Surf/Hydro Pump + Hurricane
    - That's what I call a combination. Water/Flying has brilliant coverage, and take into account that it has two 120 BP STAB moves. one is boosted in power, the other in accuracy
    - access to Roost (by level-up, meaning it can use its excellent DW ability)
    - that DW ability is Rain Dish, meaning that Pelipper can use Damp Rock and still have what if effectively Leftovers recovery


    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Hurricane
    move 4: Roost
    item: Damp Rock
    ability: Rain Dish
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Rain Dance is Pelippers support and boosting move
    - STAB water attack is extremely powerful under the rain
    - hurricane has brilliant STAB coverage, and a 30% confusion rate
    - Roost keeps Pelipper healthy

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - SR weakness, Rapid Spinner is recommended, but not neccessary. Kabutops is an excellent partner
    - Needs something to be able to switch into Electric-type moves. Manectric/Raichu have an immunity, can also set up RD and abuse Thunder
    - Ground-types resist Pelippers weaknesses (Dugtrio/Krook can remove Electric-types)
    - 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe with a Bold nature takes more advantage of Pelippers bulk.
    - faster EV spread? imo swanna does that better. pelipper is bulkier
    - Pelipper can act as a stand-alone attacker too. Lefties/Life Orb are an option


    [Other Options]

    - kinda shallow movepool out of what isn't listed
    - Ice Beam is notable
    - Stockpile boost defenses
    - Scald is pretty cool, but pelly wants more power
    - Tailwind can boost Speed, but most Swift Swimmers are fast enough
    - U-Turn can bring a teammate in


    [Checks & Counters]

    - special walls like Slowking
    - Electric-types will always outspeed and OHKO
    - Rock-types are slow, so they can't counter. rock attacks probably won't ohko thanks to good physical bulk
  2. Komodo

    Komodo
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,002
    I had this reserved originally, but Pelipper is so underwhelming, it isn't worth using. Honestly, I talked to some other people about this a while ago. In my opinion, it isn't worth an analysis, there are so many better Pokemon. Pelipper isn't very bulky, it's weak to common attacking types, and it doesn't deal a lot of damage in general.
  3. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,010
    It's not exactly outclassed though; what does what pelipper does? RD + recovery + excellent STAB + bulk.

    I honestly don't see the problem with Pelipper. I've used it (not extensively I admit, or against top players on the ladder) but it pulled its weight. What I also really liked was the extra 3 turns of Rain Damp Rock provided, but coupled with constant recovery.
  4. Komodo

    Komodo
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,002
    It's largely outclassed by Ludicolo, which is far bulkier, has Leech Seed, less common weaknesses, better STAB, and better in pretty much every way.
  5. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,010
    Hmm. Ludicolo also packs fewer resistances, less physical bulk, no instant recovery (although Leech Seed + Rain Dish is admittedly good), questionable better STAB (Pelipper hits everything in the tier neutrally, and with good power). Ludicolo is also primarily used as a sweeper (Pelipper obviously can't do this) and Pelipper as a tank.
  6. Komodo

    Komodo
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,002
    Ludicolo isn't weak to Electric- and Rock-type moves, which are pretty common, and its defenses are somewhat better. Ludicolo isn't weak to Stealth Rock either. 80/70/100 vs Pelipper's 60/100/70; their defensive stats are switched around, but Ludicolo has superior HP, and it has a 4x resistance to Water-type moves, which is much more useful, considering Pelipper doesn't have any 4x resists. Also, Ludicolo may have slightly lower physical bulk overall, but it isn't majorly different. Pelipper's physical bulk adds to 6000 (60 base HP x 100 base Defense), while Ludicolo's is 5600 (80 base HP x 70 base Defense). It's not even a 10% difference. There isn't a whole lot of difference, and in my opinion, Ludicolo is much more superior. This shows that Ludicolo doesn't ALWAYS have to be a sweeper. Also, Ludicolo has better Special Attack, higher Speed, and its STAB moves both have 100% accuracy, which is more reliable in my eyes. A miss from Hurricane, and Pelipper is pretty much screwed, cause it can be 2HKOed very easily.

    Edit -- I'm posting this through personal experience, I've used Pelipper a lot, and seriously, it's an awful Pokemon in RU. Every time I've used it, it hasn't worked well enough to warrant a teamslot, it isn't bulky enough, and it faints too quickly. It can do one thing, but then it faints. I'm only comparing it to Ludicolo, because Pelipper is outclassed, and honestly, there isn't anything wonderful about it. Also, Roost makes Pelipper lose its resistance to Fighting-type moves, and immunity to Ground-type moves, just saying. Pelipper is pretty bad in my opinion, but you're entitled to your own, and QC will make the final decision. Crappy Pokemon like this are better for NU, not here. Don't just post a set for the sake of it.
  7. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,120
    Though Ludicolo has better HP and SpD, as well as higher SpA, you can't really compare the two. Pelipper has much better Def, while having access to Roost. The two play very different.

    But I still doubt Pelipper's viability a bit.

    EDIT:

    Umm, why aren't you taking advantage of Pelipper's physical "bulk" in a set?

    And Komodo, stop comparing it to Ludicolo.
  8. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,010
    I can see your point, Komodo, but I did have some success with it, which is why I decided to post the set.

    SuperJOCKE, How about I add an AC mention of Bold and 252 Def EVs? IMO Pelipper needs the SpA to hit hard a tad more than the extra bulk.

    We'll wait to see what QC has to say about it I guess

    EDIT: Roost cannot be used to justify Pelipper not getting an analysis. Sure it removes the Flying-typing, but only if Pelipper moves first. And just how often is that going to happen? And even then, it REMOVES the Rock-type weakness. And who's going to use a Fighting- or a Ground-type move against Pelipper?
  9. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,140
    I'm inclined to agree with Komodo, I don't see Pelipper accomplishing much at all. As you've mentioned, Swanna outclasses it offensively, so its only advantage is bulk. But 60/100/70 defenses are not impressive, especially when you're weak to SR. I'll discuss it with the rest of QC, but this will probably end up being rejected.
  10. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,010
    Ah well, I suppose it was a long shot anyway. Mabye I'll do it in NU, eh?
  11. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,572
    Yeah, I can't see this being good in RU, and the arguments presented have convinced me of that.

    QC REJECTED 1/3

    Sorry.
  12. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,010
    It's no problem. I've gotten further up the ladder and it's let me down a lot now. Actually in favor of this getting rejected, I'll do the NU one.
  13. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,140
    Alright, glad you agree.

    QC REJECTED 2/3
  14. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,010
    lol one more
  15. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,213
    rejected

    locking and moving

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)