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Perfect Teammates.

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Arikado, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    So i decided to make another OU team after playing UU for a while, and this one is actually the first successful OU balanced team i've ever created (With some help though, thanks to Bismarck.), So i decided to post it here for further improvements.

    Changes are bolded.

    Team at a Glance
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]




    The Lead:
    [​IMG] @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Nature: Jolly
    Moveset:
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt

    Aerodactyl is a natural lead, acceptable attack, very high speed and access to Stealth Rock and Taunt make it superior, Rock Slide gives it a reliable STAB. The only reason I'm using Rock Slide over Stone Edge is that the 30% chance of flinching helped me A LOT. Earthquake is used for more coverage.

    This lead, however, has some troubles shutting down certain leads, like Bronzong, it always gets me and all i can do is Taunt + SR, but leads such as Azelf are easily taken care of, as they usually predict a Taunt and go for Psychic or Grass Knot first, so i go for Rock Slide to get the 2HKO.





    Set-up sweeper #1
    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly
    Moveset:
    - Dragon Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake

    Pretty self-explanatory. Dragon Dance Dragonite is just pure plain badassery. ExtremeSpeed is used for weakened revenge-killers like Flygon who think they can take me down. Outrage is the strongest attack on this moveset and it's also the strongest STAB on Dragonite, it can take care of weakened Swampert who switch in on an Earthquake or an ExtremeSpeed, it also can deal a nice amount of damage to Scizor (2HKO's) and other Steel types who switch-in.
    Earthquake OHKO's all versions of Heatran and is used for Dragon + Ground coverage which is resisted by a few. And it also helps me against Tyranitar and take it down before it kills me with Stone Edge.





    Revenge-killer:
    [​IMG] @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Moveset:
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Fire Punch

    My revenge-killer, saved me from many dangerous sweepers before, such as Gyarados who can dig holes in my team after a Dragon Dance, it also revenges Lucario with Fire Punch, Dragonite and Flygon with Ice Punch, and flinch Pokemon to death.

    ThunderPunch is mainly used over Trick to take care of Gyarados who sets up on my Suicune, Iron Head takes down anything, even those who resist it, Fire Punch can revenge Scizor and opposite Jirachi while also 2HKOing Forretress.

    Jolly is used to tie with opposite +Spe Scarfed Flygon and outspeed Scarfed Flygon with a neutral speed nature.


    Special Sweeper:
    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Nature: Timid
    Moveset:
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Pain Split

    The awesome SubSplit Gengar, taking care of Blissey and Snorlax with the combination of Substitute + Pain Split + Focus Blast, it can also 2HKO most Pokemon who don't resist Shadow Ball, and can sweep teams behind a Sub.


    Substitute can save me from status-inducing Pokemon, mainly Celebi who loves going around teams, causing switches and Thunder Waving the shit outta anything.

    Pain Split was used to take care of Blissey who usually if not always switches in on Gengar, taking out more than 50% of Blissey's health after a Pain Split.

    Focus Blast takes care of Heatran who is also a common switch-in, it fails me sometimes though due to it's goddamn 70 accuracy, but it usually works.





    Set-up sweeper #2
    [​IMG] @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Sandstream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Nature: Jolly
    Moveset:
    - Taunt
    - Dragon Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    Wtf ? Taunt on Tyranitar ? This must be some sort of a gimmick!

    No, it's not. This Tyranitar can wreck stall teams after taking care of Bronzong and Breloom, it can Taunt Skarmory and setting up on it's weak Brave Bird and Drill Peck, prevents Blissey from statusing my team, and prevents Forretress who thinks it can set-up on me.

    Tyranitar also makes perfect synergy with Gengar. Gengar can take out what Tyranitar can't, and Tyranitar can take out what Gengar can't.

    Lum Berry is mainly used to set-up on Blissey and Rotom before Taunting them, giving me an extra Dragon Dance. I can Taunt Rotom after curing the WoW using the Lum Berry and Taunt Blissey after absorbing the Toxic/Thunder Wave.






    Ass-saver and the guy that makes people ragequit:
    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Nature: Bold
    Moveset:
    - Surf
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Ice Beam

    You might wonder, why use Ice Beam over Sleep Talk on a CroCune ? I'll answer with Dragonite, Kingdra and Gyarados who otherwise dig wholes in my team after setting up. And also leaving them open to my own Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed.

    Calm Mind is the secret to winning with this guy: It boosts my SpA and SpD making Suicune incredibly hard to take down. Surf is a strong STAB on Suicune and does a nice amount of damage to Pokemon who don't resist it. Rest is used to recover my HP back and also grab more Calm Minds if possible.

    The EV spread and nature is to max out my Defense while boosting my SpD with Calm Mind.
  2. nesan

    nesan

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    Dragon Dance Gyarados... It will destroy this team with one Dragon Dance. But I don't see how it would set up. With Stealth Rock an Sand Storm it won't live long. Also note the Life Orb. Why don't you try a SD Lucario over Tyranitar. ExtremeSpeed can help. Gengar + Lucario makes a great combo. Also with Suicune and Jirachi on the run Rotom forms will have to come out.
    On the other hand you can try a Scarfed Zapdos or Jolteon/Starmie. Offensive Suicune is as bad as Gyarados. Also you seem to have a bit of AgiliGross weakness. Scarf Zapdos will solve most of the problems. It's kind of an unusual set but I've been using it and it works great.
    Replace Gengar with a scarfed Rotom form! It will also work the same way as Zapdos but better because of Trick.
  3. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    Weird enough, my Jirachi is what saved me from the Gyarados' i've come across.

    Body Slam makes it very slow and then Flinch hax works it's magic.

    Also, i can't tell about AgiliGross as i never really faced one before. (The Metagross i see are usually leads, i might have ran into AiliGross but i don't really remember.)

    I'll test out SD Lucario for a while and see if it works, the main reason whey i need DDTaunTar is to wreck Stall Teams and basically SkarmBliss as i've came across a lot lately.
  4. nesan

    nesan

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    o.o

    Wouldn't +1 EQ kill Jirachi? Relying on 60%? Still your battle style is different than mine. With Sand Storm + Life Orb and Stealth Rock, Gyarados isn't much of a problem. I added a bit more to my previous post. Try the Rotom idea.
  5. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    Any suggested movesets for the TrickScarf Rotom ?

    I assume this:

    Rotom-A @ Choice Scarf
    252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Timid
    - Trick
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Air Slash
  6. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    Hey there Arikado, this is a pretty nice team you got there. I do have a few concerns, though, which I think can easily be addressed and fixed.

    First of all, fast threats such as Starmie, Jolteon, and Scarf Flygon can tear your team to shreds at the moment. You basically need to hope you catch them switching in with a strong attack, which isn't reliable. Right now, I would say the weakest, and probably most out-of-place member on your team is Jirachi. I'm not sure what paralysis support is doing for the rest of your team, who are all fairly fast, or set up speed, and even if you stick with that specific Jirachi, I'm not sure why you're running max Spe on a paralysis set without Fire Punch (for Lucario). To fix this, I would like to suggest two changes:

    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Adamant, 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Inner Focus
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Extremespeed
    -Earthquake/Fire Punch

    and...

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly, 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Serene Grace
    -Iron Head
    -Ice Punch
    -Fire Punch
    -Thunderpunch

    I would like to see these two sets replace your current ones. The Dragonite set allows you to maintain your set-up sweeper threat, while also providing you with a strong emergency priority attack. This also allows Dragonite to do a lot of damage to Scarf Flygon after a Dragon Dance, without worrying about getting outsped for the KO. With Jirachi, you should have all the tools you need for taking out the pesky speedy threats to your team, and you also gain a check against Swords Dance Bullet Punch Lucario and Dragon Dance Gyarados, who stand to sweep you clean as well.

    Next, you have a severe weakness to opposing Dragon Dancers, such as Dragonite, Gyarados, and Kingdra, who can set up easily against your Suicune. Jirachi helps solve this problem slightly, but I think it would be better if you could just eliminate the chance for your opponent to set up completely by replacing Sleep Talk on your Suicune with either Ice Beam or Roar. Ice Beam will allow you to prevent Dragonite from setting up, and still do some okay damage to Kingdra and Gyarados, putting them in a range for your Extremespeed Dragonite to revenge kill, while Roar would help you phaze them completely (though you should watch out for Taunt Gyaradoses, and go immediately to Jirachi if you face one). I hope you find that these changes will add to the success of your team! Best of luck!
  7. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    Thanks for rating, Phil.

    I actually tested those, successful so far. God how i pwn DD Gyarados and ScarfGon with that Jirachi.. even Kingdra setting up on Suicune isn't a problem anymore since i can nail it down with Ice Beam and even if Suicune is down, i have Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed to do the job.
  8. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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  9. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    1-day bump.

    :(
  10. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    First of all, the Choice Scarf Rotom set is at http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/rotom-h#Choice. But if you decide to keep Gengar, I have a few suggestions. You have no Rapid Spinner on your team, so Gengar will probably not come in at full health, making Bullet Punch an almost guaranteed OHKO. This makes HP Fire pretty much useless. With that in mind, I suggest moving those 4 HP EVs to Defense and giving Gengar Pain Split. Pain Split, as mentioned on Gengar's analysis, allows Gengar to more easily beat stall, and more importantly, beat Blissey. Pain Split also lets it recover from Life Orb and Substitute damage. Hope this helps.
  11. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    I actually tested SubSplit Gengar before i went for the Sub + 3 Attacks, it didn't do too well, mainly because i didn't know how to use it though. (still don't.)

    But it's true that it usually dies to Scizor's Bullet Punch.. my only hope is that Scizor switches-in while i'm behind a Sub so i can HP Fire it easily..

    Also, is Roar good on my Suicune ? For Pokemon who think they can set-up on my Suicune. [except for Gyarados, because i immediately switch into my Jirachi when i see one.]
  12. MK Ultra

    MK Ultra BOOGEYMAN
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    Nice team here, though if AgiliSub Empoleon is set up, carrying Grass Knot and behind a sub, nothing can touch it. It can set up on Suicune pretty easily as well, as it 4x resists Ice Beam and Surf.
  13. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Well without Sleep Talk you're going to get set up on by anything, so definitely have that or don't have Rest. I didn't think about Gengar being behind a sub when Scizor switched in, :( sorry. In that case, it will kill it. However, it will break Gengar's sub, meaning that it has to spend more health to get another up, along with probably having to switch out of whatever switches in after you kill Scizor. If you've found Gengar is a good Scizor lure, then I'd keep HP Fire. But otherwise, you play SubSplit Gengar the same way you play Sub+3 Attacks Gengar, but when you find Blissey, you use Substitute until you're under 25% health, then Pain Split, like it says on the analysis. You can then 2HKO Blissey with Focus Blast. If Blissey uses Softboiled, just keep using Pain Split. It has twice as much PP as Softboiled, so Gengar can beat it.

    EDIT: Also consider HP Electric on Suicune to help kill Empoleon (Empoleon only has a 2x resist to Surf btw), but at that point you might as well just use offensive Suicune.
  14. KidX

    KidX

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    Hello! I got your VM

    To start try using this rotom set over gengar:

    Rotom-H @ Leftovers
    EV's: 252 Hp 168 Def 88 Spe
    Nature: Bold
    Ability: Levitate
    Moves:

    Thunderbolt
    Shadow Ball
    Will-o-Wisp
    Pain Split / Reflect

    This set helps counter gyara and an abundance of other physical attackers, especially with reflect and WoW up, to show here are some damage calcs with WoW and reflect up against t-tar:

    Sub + 3 Attacks Machamps using Dynamic Punch: 49.1% - 59.6%

    Offensive + 1 DD Gyara using EQ: 31% - 36.8%

    Offensive + 1 DD Gyara using Waterfall: 36.8% - 43.9%

    CB Scizor using bullet punch: 22.8% - 26.9%

    + 2 Life Orb SD scizor using bullet punch: 38.6% - 45.6%

    You could also use pain split to recover hp and prolong stall.

    Also use hp electric > ice beam to nail empoleon and gyara hard

    Good Luck!
  15. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    Haha i even forgot i VM'd you.

    Anyway, i'll totally consider [will be testing] using Rotom over Gengar because Gengar dies from a Bullet Punch from Scizor too easily, and Rotom looks like a good team supporter, and will help Tyranitar set-up with DD, as for HP Electric, it's not really needed as i immediately switch to Jirachi to Thunder Punch Gyarados whenever i see one. But i hate the idea of them setting up on me though, so i'll give it a try.

    Thanks. :)
  16. Lord Liam

    Lord Liam

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    Hi Shiny Slowpoke, rating as requested.

    First off, I really don't like Aerodactyl. Colbur Azelf is alot better, seeing as it still sets up fast paced rocks, but can also explode, killing their lead. It also has the benefit of defeating Lead Machamp who can hurt any team once it plows down your lead. The Colbur Azelf set is...


    Jolly @ Colbur Berry
    8 HP / 136 Atk / 144 SpD / 220 Speed
    -Stealth Rock
    -U-Turn
    -Taunt
    -Explosion

    This lead is designed to be able to set up Stealth Rock and boom on Lead Machamp, as well as beat other common leads while getting up those fast rocks. I put an extra EV in speed just so you can Taunt other Azelfs heh.

    The rest of the team looks pretty solid, and I'm having a bit of trouble finding things that could hurt it. However, you are pretty weak to Agility Metagross, especially those with ThunderPunch. I can't make many more changes to the team without risk of destroying it's great synergy, but try not to let that set up, as Jirachi's Fire Punch doesn't OHKO, and Suicune is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch.

    Overall awesome team though, hope I helped!
  17. Azlanslayer

    Azlanslayer

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    Arikado, i got your VM bro, well, not much to rate.

    After seeing your team and analyzing it, looks solid after being rated. I can't find a weakness except Machamp, who can beat this team hands-down.
    You don't want to see this (open)
    Dynamic Punch + Bullet Punch kills Aero, Ice Punch for Dragonite, Confusion hax Suicune, Payback Gengar, Dynamic Punch Jirachi + Tyranitar.

    Well, to fix this, how about using Colbur Berry Lead Azlef? It can beat Machamp 1 v 1. Solid Team, might test this team on PO =)

    Good Luck
  18. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

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    Nice team, very much like my current one. As Azlanslayer said, use Colbur Berry Azelf as a lead - it can give you nice offensive momentum and Machamp destroys your team.
    You've got most common threats covered, although if your opponent has a Magnezone to trap Jirachi stuck on anything other than Fire Punch, and a Gyarados, it can screw you up. I'm not sure what to suggest to stop that from happening, and it's a pretty rare situation...
    Also, I suggest using Dragon Claw over Outrage and Fire Punch over Extremespeed on Dragonite, because you otherwise get walled to no end by Skarmory.
    Hope I helped!
  19. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    Skarmory can't do shit to Tyranitar (Taunt, set-up bait), Suicune pretty much raises the middle finger against Skarmory, and whatever it Whirlwinds me into is gonna kill it anyway.

    Plus i need ExtremeSpeed to revenge weakened Gyarados and Kingdra. And i have already tested Dragon Claw before i put Outrage on it, i needed the power to get the kill on Swampert and some other stuff.
  20. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Sup,

    All right, I'm not liking the use of Ice Beam over Sleep Talk on Suicune, especially since there are no Aromatherapy users around. So ya, replace that with Sleep Talk to prevent you from being set up bait.

    This team is miserably weak to Specs Jolteon, as everything is 2HKO'd by its Thunderbolt. It seems like the only way you are able to deal with it at the moment is tying with Aero or flinching it death with Jirachi.

    Also, I feel like some toxic spikes and spikes will aid in the sweeps of Dragonite and Suicune. Because of this, I favor replacing Tyrantiar entirely (who checks very little) with a spikes Ros, who also alleviates your weaknesses to Jolteon, Specs Rotom-W and Starmie:

    Roserade @ Leftovers
    Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
    -Leaf Storm/Energy Ball
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Aromatherapy/Spikes
    -Rest

    *Leaf Storm cannot be used with Spikes

    Finally, this team simply loses to Calm Mind Raikou if Aerodactyl is dead. Because of this, I think you should replace ThunderPunch on Jirachi with Trick (which also helps you defeat stall and various sweepers). This slightly aggravates your weakness to DD Dos, but I can't see it being too much of an issue when you have Extremespeed from Dragonite + Trick from Jirachi. If Gyara proves to be problematic, I guess you can place HP Electric over Sleep Talk on Suicune, but this means Aromatherapy is mandatory on Roserade, which means no dual spikes.

    Good luck!
  21. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    I edited the descriptions since they were messed up, haha.


    Hey man, i haven't used this team in a while now, but i'll test out your suggestions, and true, Specs Jolteon usually ends up taking at least 2 members of my team before going down.

    As for replacing Ice Beam with Sleep Talk, i'd say Ice Beam is better, because without that, Dragonite, Kingdra and Gyarados will all set up on Suicune while i Ice Beam and leave them open for Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed or Jirachi's Ice Punch/ThunderPunch, that's mainly why i use Ice Beam.

    Thanks for the rate !
  22. Arikado

    Arikado FREE SAVIOUR DOGE AND WATER DRUDDIGON
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    Alright, after testing out Roserade for a couple matches, while it did good, I'm just fucked up by stall, that's mainly why i put Taunt on Tyranitar in the first place, to stop Skarmory from phazing my team and hurting me with Spikes and SR.
  23. Faladran

    Faladran
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    Problems

    • [​IMG]Lead Machamp
    This has been mentioned briefly already, but Machamp is a very troublesome lead for your team to face, especially considering its offensive nature. Aerodactyl can only get up Stealth Rock before going down to Ice Punch + Bullet Punch, and almost everything on your team will be 2HKOd by it or crippled by confusion. The only team member that has a chance to defeat it is Scarf Jirachi, but it has to rely on multiple Iron Head flinches for this to occur, which is unreliable.

    Suggestions

    • Use Colbur Azelf
    I agree that Colbur Azelf would be a better choice as a lead than Aerodactyl. Azelf is also quite similar in the sense that it is a fast suicide lead with access to Taunt. However, it does have the advantage of Explosion to take out any troublesome Pokemon, which is the crux of the following set:
    [​IMG]
    Azelf @ Colbur Berry
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 8 HP / 140 Atk / 216 Spe / 144 SpD
    Jolly nature ( Spe, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Explosion

    It's quite likely that you're aware of this set's effectiveness by now, but I'll go into some extra detail. Colbur Berry and the given EVs allow you to survive Payback + Bullet Punch from Machamp, allowing you to safely set up Stealth Rock and KO back with Explosion. Taunt still gives you the useful ability to shut down slower leads' attempts at setting up. U-turn helps out against opposing Aerodactyl, breaking their Focus Sashes so that you can send in another team member to finish them off. This is quite likely one of the best Azelf lead sets in the current metagame, and is nearly always able to at least get Stealth Rock up safely and start the match off with an offensive pace.

    Besides that, the teams looks quite solid. Phil's rate has ironed out any of the major problems, so that you have at least some semblance of a strategy to deal with common threats. I could see that a well-played LO Starmie could be difficult to play around, but you at least won't be swept clean by it. Scarf Jirachi can outspeed it and deal a large amount of damage with Thunderpunch, and Suicune takes negligible damage even from Thunderbolt after it accumulates a few Calm Mind boosts.

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