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Perhaps the greatest RMT ever (peaked #2 on Showdown)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by ShootingStarmie, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Perhaps the greatest RMT ever!

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    Picture of peek!

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    Before I start I'd just like to say that this is one hell of a long read, so if you read all of this, then major respect to you.

    Hello all, and welcome to my RMT. I’ve gone through a lot with this team, and I’ve used it for about nine months now. It has gone through a lot of changes but I feel that this team has finally reached a very good stage in a stable metagame. All constructive criticism is welcome so please feel free to post a comment.

    TEAM BUILDING PROCESS AND HISTORY​


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    That aside, I wanted to build a team around one of my favourite physical sweepers in gen 4; Lucario. It swept so many teams with ease and helps me a lot against stall teams. Even though its greatest counter Gliscor received an amazing boost this generation because of its Dream World ability Poison Heal, I still wanted to use Lucario. Since BW2, new threats have arised, like Genesect, Keldeo, and Landorus-T, which are all pretty great checks to Lucario, which makes it quite hard to sweep with Lucario.

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    I then added Gengar because it has amazing synergy with Lucario. It dodges the Fighting and Ground type attacks aimed at Lucario, and once it gets on to the field it starts to cause havoc. Lucario can also come in on the Dark, and Ghost type attacks aimed at Gengar. Lucario can also smash through Gengar's biggest nemesis, Tyranitar and Blissey/Chansey

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    I now needed a Fire resist, and Stealth Rocks. The first Pokemon that came to mind was Heatran, and it makes sense to put into the team because of the similar weaknesses it has with Lucario, which means Gengar also has great synergy with Heatran, dodging the Ground and Fighting type attacks aimed at Heatran.

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    I remember back in gen 4 I used a CeleTran core (Celebi and Heatran). They resist each other’s weaknesses so well, and Celebi was just a great, consistent Pokemon. It has solid stats and it’s such an unpredictable Pokemon. I added it to the team.

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    I then added Rotom-W. I used it in a previous team and I loved it. It has amazing synergy with Heatran, as it can take the Ground and Water type attacks aimed at it. It also gave my team a lovely Water/Fire/Grass core, and everyone knows how great they are.

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    I then added Dragonite, mainly because it was another Fighting and Ground resist, and I wanted to abuse Multiscale with Roost.

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    The team was doing pretty good but I was weak to a few certain things. The biggest weakness I noticed was Rain Stall. This was during the time of M Dragon’s famous rain stall team. It really did a number on my team. So I replaced Dragonite with Reuniclus. It really helped me out loads against Stall teams and unlike Dragonite, it didn't give a damn about Stealth Rocks. It also had a fighting resist, which was the main reason why I used Dragonite.

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    The team was doing slightly better, but I was basically weak to anything that was faster than Gengar. Jolteon, Starmie, Tornadus and other threats gave this team a headache. Also, anything that set up on this team was very hard to deal with. Mainly Dragon types who used Dragon Dance would really scare me. I felt like Rotom-W wasn't doing great and it was the most replaceable Pokemon on my team, but I didn't want to replace it for anything. I needed something that can still take Water and Ground type attacks, while beating Dragon Dancers one on one. I added Choice Scarf Hydregion, as it allowed me to out speed +1 Dragonite and +1 Haxorus. It also allowed me to come in on Starmie and Jolteon and beat them one on one.

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    I started to test out Ferrothron in place of Celebi, because it gave me an easier time against Dragon types, but Celebi seemed to just fit the team better, and instead of giving me a Fighting resist, it gave me another Fighting weakness (along with Heatran, Lucario, and Hydregion). I didn't want that, so I went back to Celebi and made it a more defensive set. I then tested the team, and I no longer have as big of a problem as I did with Dragon types, but the team looked really weak to Volcarona. If it got a Quiver Dance up, it could really be trouble for this team. Sure Heatran walls it, but if it was the Bulky set with Morning Sun or Roost it would beat Heatran eventually. To help me out against Volcarona, I replaced a few move sets. Celebi is now my Stealth Rocker, and Heatran now has Roar. This helped me a lot against Dragon Dancers too.

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    At this moment in time, Garchomp was being tested on PS for the OU ladder. This is when I replaced Bronzong with Hydregion. I preferred Hydregion, but Bronzong dealt with Garchomp much better, while still being able to take on fast Dragon types, so I used Bronzong while laddering on the suspect ladder. I kept with this team for a good while, (switching between Bronzong and Hydregion) and during BW1 it peaked 2170 (ranked #3) on the PS ladder. Unfortunalty, BW2 was just around the corner, and this was going to be trouble for my team. Genesect could hit everything bar Heatran and Gengar for SE damage, and it hit so hard with the right download boost. Tornadus-T also screwed this team over, as Heatran was the only Pokemon to ‘check’ it, but it was still hit hard by Super Power / Focus Blast. A lot of other threats made it hard for this team to ladder well with, so I basically retired this team and took a break from Pokemon. The reason I took a break from Pokemon is that I was getting terribly haxed on the ladder. This was during the testing of Garchomp, and I was 18-0 with the team on the suspect. I then was terribly haxed and I wasn’t high enough to vote, although I think I deserved to. However, I reflected upon hax, and realised that hax has probably won me just as many games as its lost me games, and that it happens to everyone, so I got over it.

    While browsing the RMT section on Smogon, I came across a Rain team. It was Neliel Tu Oderschvank’s team. It was a rain team featuring Feraligatr. I really liked the team, so I started to ladder with it, and I was doing pretty well. That’s basically what inspired me to get back into Pokemon.

    Well, one month later I’m back and better than ever. I picked up this old team and tried to see if I could fit this team into the new BW2 rain infested metagame. When I came back, the metagame was infested with this little bug named Genesect. It was everywhere! Luckily I did already had a Heatran, which is considered Genesect’s best ‘counter’. However, the user who goes by the name Lavos Spawn created an execellent team, and everyone was using it. This team was Simulation of a Drought, the original Genesun team. Now my only check to sun teams as Hydregion and Heatran, and everything else fell easily to a well-built Sun team, and Lavos’ team just does this. It basically removed Heatran from the game thanks to Dugtrio, and then 6-0’d me. I was still weak to Tornadus-T, Techniloom, and Sheer Force Landorus, but more on that later.

    Obviously the team needed changes, since the metagame went through some drastic changes.
    With this current version of the team, I was quite weak to ScarfMence, Mamoswine, Heatran, Genesect, Techniloom, Venasaur with Earthquake and Tornadus-T. I knew I needed to change something, and an idea hit me out of the blue. I can't believe no one suggested this to me before...

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    This was the great idea, combine Hydregion and Reuniclus. This may sound silly, but it gives me another team slot, which my team desperately needed. So how did I combine them? I added Choice Scarf Latios. It does basically what Hydregion does, but its faster, is a great check to Techniloom, and out speeds Scarf Mence and Modest Venasaur. It also has that Psychic typing, meaning it can still take on threats that Reuniclus took on. Granted, Reuniclus was much bulkier, but I've think I've made the right decision here.

    Right, so I have one slot left. I'm still weak to Mamo, Tornadus-T, Heatran, and Genesect. What can cover all of them threats? Well, non other than Rotom-W. Adding Rotom-W can handle all of then threats, and gives me momentum with Volt-Switch. It also gives my team a nice F/W/G core, meaning I can play around with a new core for the team.

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    Rotom-W was doing really well in checking Mamoswine and Tornadus-T. However, I felt Latios just wasn’t doing great, and seemed like the most replacable member or the team. I wanted to replace it with Mamoswine, because it could still check Dragon types and Venusaur, while providing Stealth Rocks and allowing Celebi another move slot.

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    I tested it, and Rotom-W ‘s new moveset (was previously Pain Split / WoW) was doing fantasic, as well as Celebi’s new moveset (Stealth Rocks was replaced with Heal Bell), but sadly, Mamoswine hardly ever got Rocks up early game. It also didn’t stick around too long. Mamoswine looked great on paper, but it just wasn’t working.

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    I went back to Scarf Latios, but I really didn’t want to put Stealth Rocks back onto Celebi, because of the new movesets. This is when I replaced Lucario. Lucario was a great sweeper, but the BW2 metagame was very unkind to Lucario, as it provided great checks such as Garchomp, Keldeo, and Landorus-T. I was browsing through Smogon, when finally ‘The Smog’ issue 22 had been released! I read ‘The Smog’ and I came across a very intreseting article. It was the ‘Underrated Movesets in OU’ article, and this article game me an idea. Agility Lucario. I tested it, and it did work quite well, but I missed the SD set, so Lucario was only really on my team to take out Chansey / Tyranitar.

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    I felt that Lucario was the most replaceable member, but I couldn’t just replace it with anything, I needed something that could take out Tyranitar, Chansey, set up SR, and keep the good synergy with the team. Terrakion filled all of these roles, so I tested it out, and it was amazing. The great thing about support Terrakion is that it can stop Deoxys-D leads with Taunt, and beat most weather starters (Abomasnow, Ninetales, Tyranitar). Terrakion also forced many switches, allowing me easily set up SR.

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    Terrakion was doing very well, especially during the Genesect period. However, Genesect was soon banned, and I started to find faults in using Terrakion. It made me very weak to a few physical sweepers, like Scizor (who was rising back up in usage because Genesect had been banned), Sub SD Terrakion, and Sub SD Garchomp. I needed something that could set up SR, and take on these threats. I started talking to my good friend shartruce2, and he suggested that I use Landorus-T over Terrakion. It still could set up on common weather leads, like Ninetales and Tyranitar, and it counters Scizor and Terrakion because of Intimidate and great bulk. I started to use it, and it was just amazing in practice as it was on paper.

    This is the most current and up to date version of this team, but I can assure that when the metagame changes, this team will change with it. That’s what’s so great about this team. Anyway, I’ve talked a lot about the team building process, so let’s take a closer look at the actual team…


    A CLOSER LOOK.

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    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Trick

    Latios is mainly here to check specific threats to the team. This is including, but not limited to Keldeo, Garchomp, Terrakion, Thundurus-T, Salamence and Venusaur. I chose the Choice Scarf set because it out speeds Scarf Terra, Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Chomp, and Modest Venusaur, which are all pretty big threats to this team without Latios. Draco Meteor is STAB, and basically hits anything that doesn’t resist it hard (apart from Tyranitar, Chansey and Blissey). Psyshock also STAB and is very important because it hits Keldeo, and Venusaur for super effective damage. Psyshock also hits Blissey for very good damage, which is crucial for my team. Surf is there for general good coverage on Steel types that resist my STAB attacks and hits Tyranitar for some good damage. Trick is there to cripple stall teams and bulky set up sweepers, like CM Reuniclus and CM Jirachi. Overall Latios is very good, and does its job well, put sometimes the power output is lacking.

    The EVs are used to max Speed and Special Attack. Max Speed is used to out speed Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Chomp, and Modest Venusaur. 0 IVs are used just so I take less damage from confusion, which is rare, but there’s no reason not to lower my IVs for this small threat.



    Synergy
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    Ice weakness = Heatran, Rotom-W
    Dark Weakness = Heatran
    Bug Weakness = Heatran, Landorus-T, Gengar
    Ghost weakness = Heatran
    Dragon weakness = Heatran


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    Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder Wave
    - Rest

    Rotom-W is amazing for the team. It was a solid check to Genesect, and it still is a great check to Tornadus-T, Mamoswine, and most Steel types. Volt Switch is my STAB move of choice, which allows me to grab momentum and gain switch advantage. Hydro Pump is also STAB, and allows me to be a huge threat to Rain teams and hit bulky Ground types that are immune to Volt Switch for great damage. Thunder Wave is there to hit Venusaur (because I can live a Giga Drain and I can take a Sleep Powder because of the Chesto Berry) and Latios. Rest is used for full recovery and allows me to beat Gliscor who try to Toxic Stall me. I chose the Chesto Resto set, because it’s very good at bluffing a choice set. Granted, it doesn’t hit nearly as hard as the Specs set, and it is out sped a lot, but there are a few times where the opponent can be fooled into thinking its choiced, and a lot of players assume its choiced just because they don’t see Leftovers recovery.

    The EVs are used to take hits better from Tornadus-T. The 28 SpAtk is used to OHKO Gliscor with Hydro Pump so they won’t be able to Toxic Stall me. 0 IVs are again used so I’m less prone to confusion damage (from Tornadus-T’s Hurricane).



    Synergy
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    Grass – Celebi, Heatran, Latios, Gengar.



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    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Roar
    - Toxic

    This thing really is such a great defensive Pokemon. Base 106 defenses on both the Physical and Special sides, a solid 91 HP stat, and unique typing, giving it key resistance to Bug, Fire, Steel, and Grass type attacks. I used the Specially Defensive set, mainly because most of the Physical attacks aimed at it (like Earth Quake and Close Combat) are going to KO it regardless of EV investment. Lava Plume is for the 30% burn rate which allows Heatran to take physical hits better and has consistent accuracy and PP. Roar is used to beat Dragon Dancers and Substitute users who think they can set up on Heatran. Toxic is there to nail the Bulky Water type switch - ins, like Rotom-W and Jellicent, and Protect is used for scouting purposes and Leftovers recovery.

    The EVs are used to maximise special bulk, while getting a ‘magic’ HP number. The 12 EVs that were leftover are used to out speed opposing Heatran that run full HP / SpDef. 0 IVs are used again for confusion damage.



    Synergy
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    Water = Celebi, Rotom-W, Latios
    Ground = Celebi, Rotom-W, Gengar, Latios, Landorus-T
    Fighting = Celebi, Gengar, Latios, Landorus-T



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    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 224 SDef / 36 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Recover
    - Heal Bell
    - Giga Drain
    - Psychic

    Celebi is an underestimated defensive Pokemon. I use the specially defensive set because it allows me to take on Life Orb Starmie and Choice Specs Jolteon easier. Recover is used for 50% recovery which allows me to stay around for the majority of the match. Heal Bell is used to make me less prone to hax. This includes Scald burns on Rotom-W, Heatran being paralyzed by Jirachi, and Landorus-T being put to sleep by Breloom (which isn’t really hax, but it’s annoying). Heal Bell also works great in conjunction with Rotom-W’s Rest, which is very cool. Giga Drain is a STAB grass move which gains me a bit move health and allows me to deal with Rain teams pretty well. Psychic is my other STAB move of choice, which is used for Tentecruel, Breloom, and Toxicroak.

    The 36 speed EVs are used to out speed Scizor, Tyranitar, and Adamant Breloom (before it Spores me). The rest of the EVs are used to maximsise special bulk, as this allows me to come in on Latios’ Draco Meteor, Jolteon’s HP Ice, and Politoad’s Ice Beam.



    Synergy
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    Ice = Heatran, Rotom-W
    Ghost = Heatran
    Bug = Heatran, Gengar, Landorus-T
    Flying = Heatran, Rotom-W
    Fire = Heatran, Rotom-W, Latios
    Dark = Heatran
    Poison = Heatran, Gengar



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    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Landorus-T is perhaps the best OU defensive pivot in the OU metagame right now. It switches in to Tyranitar, Terrakion, Scizor, and a bunch of other physical threats so easily. Stealth Rock is used for general damage on the opposing team, and allows me to deal more damage to the opposing team by phasing with Heatran, and forcing switches with Rotom-W’s Volt Switch. Earthquake is general STAB, and hits super hard with a base 145 attack (even when the EV’s aren’t invested much into Attack). Stone Edge conplments Earthquake’s coverage, hitting Pokemon who resist / are immune to EQ. U-turn allows me to gain momentum and switch advantage.

    The EVs are very precise on Landorus-T. 64 EVs in attack allows me to OHKO Dragonite with Stone Edge after SR damage. The HP is a ‘magic’ HP number, as it allows me to gain the most leftovers recovery and switch into SR more times. The EVs invested into Defence allows me to switch into Terrakion’s banded Stone Edge twice with SR up.



    Synergy
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    Ice = Heatran, Rotom-W
    Water = Celebi, Rotom-W, Latios



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    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    Gengar is a really great Pokemon. I'm surprised it isn't used more which is a shame. For me though, it really has pulled its weight for this team, often acting like a wall. That's right, I just called Gengar a wall, mainly because of immunities and the fact that its team mates lure in attacks for Gengar to switch in on and cause havoc. This thing allows me to beat slow set up sweepers, like Scrafty and Conkerdurr, because they only usually carry one move to hurt Gengar. I Disable Crunch or Payback, get a sub up, and I can put a massive dent in nearly anything as they switch out or stay in.

    I was a bit skeptical about using Disable, because I was used to using the Pain Split set back in gen 4, but it has really proven itself and has often been the MVP of the team. The EVs and nature are standard as they allow me to out speed the common base 108 speed tier, like Infernape and Terrakion. I use Leftovers over Life Orb because I want to create as many subs as possible, and Gengar isn't trying to get any notable KOs, it’s just meant to dent stuff and force switches.



    Synergy
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    Ghost = Heatran
    Dark = Heatran
    Psychic = Celebi, Latios, Heatran


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    TEAM CORES​


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    Celebi + Heatran

    The famous Celetram core, which waws popularised back in gen 4. They resist eachothers weaknesses so well, and I believe the only type they don’t resist together is Rock. They also deal wit weather teams very well. Heatran screws with Sun teams, and Celebi screws with Rain teams. Heatran also helps out a lot with Rain teams, as it takes on the Steel types that are always on rain teams, and it can cripple bulky water switch in’s with Toxic.

    Rotom-W + Heatran + Celebi

    This is a great fire / water / grass core. They resist every attacking type bar Rock. Rotom however takes on threats that Heatran and Celebi can’t take on, like Mamoswine, Tornadus-T, and opposing Heatran. Rotom aids in beating Rain teams, as it takes on Tornadus-T, which Celebi can’t beat.

    Latios + Heatran

    Dragon and Steel types always have very good synergy. Latios takes on all of Heatran’s weaknesses (Water, Fighting, and Ground), and Heatran does the same for Latios (Bug, Ghost, Dark, Dragon, Ice).
    These two are also my main answer to Sun teams, as they both resist common attacks on Sun teams (Fire, and Grass). Latios out speeds most Venusaur, and Heatran takes on everything on a Sun team, bar Ground types, like Dugtrio and Donphan.

    Heatran + Gengar

    Amazing core right here. Gengar dodges the Fighting, and Ground type attacks aimed at Heatran, and Heatran takes on all of Gengar’s weaknesses. These two also take on choiced locked Pokemon very well. Heatran uses Protect to scout what move they lock themselves into. I can then force them to switch and gain momentum. Gengar can disable choice’d Pokemon, like Banded Terrakion’s Stone Edge, and Scizor’s Bullet Punch, forcing them to switch, take more damage from SR, and allowing me to hit the next switch in hard with my unresisted coverage from Gengar.



    IMPORTABLE TEAM​


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    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Trick

    Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder Wave
    - Rest

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Roar
    - Toxic

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Heal Bell
    - Recover
    - Psychic
    - Giga Drain

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast



    THREAT LIST.​


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    Alakazam - Can actually be quite annoying if the opponent makes risky plays, like randomly predicting Gengar or Heatran to switch in. Heatran can take a Focus Blast, and Rotom-W can take a hit and Thunder Wave it. Celebi doesn’t take too much from Shadow Ball and can Giga Drain and Recover. Latios out speeds and KO’s with Draco Meteor (unless it has Focus Sash).

    Blissey – Latios can cripple Blissey with Trick and hit pretty hard with Psychock. Landorus-T can hit hard with Earthquake and Gengar can force the switch with Disable and Sub.

    Breloom –Bulk Up Breloom is walled by Celebi, and Gengar. Anything can take the Spore since Celebi can heal it off later. The Techniloom set is slightly harder to deal with, but it’s still walled by Celebi. If somehow Breloom gets past Celebi, then Gengar can revenge it, and so can Latios. Landorus-T can use Intimidate, but Loom doesn’t usually get that far through my team.

    Celebi – Heatran can hit it pretty hard with Lava Plume, and Gengar can hit hard with Shadow Ball. Landorus-T can hit Celebi hard with U-turn, but it doesn’t usually get to that stage with Celebi.

    Chansey - Read Blissey.

    Cloyster - It can't really set up on anything, as everything on my team bar Heatran can KO it, and Heatran can just Roar it out as it uses Shell Smash, if it doesn't go for Shell Smash on Heatran, it isn't going to be doing much to Heatran with Hydro Pump, and Stealth Rocks damage will rack up quickly. Rotom-W is a good switch in, as Volt Switch OHKO’s and takes +2 Rock Blast moderately well.

    Conkeldurr - The most common set I see is the Bulk up set, which basically means that Gengar will force it so switch sooner or later, because it can Disable the Payback/Ice Punch. If Conkeldurr doesn’t run Ice Punch, then Landorus-T can take it on easily too.

    Donphan - Gengar is immune to Rapid Spin and EarthQuake, and doesn't take much from Ice Shard. Celebi Resists EarthQuake, and can take a nice chunk out of its health with Giga Drain. Rotom is immune to EQ, and can OHKO with Hydro Pump (unless it’s in the Sun).

    Dragonite - Dragonite can be a massive threat if Stealth Rocks aren't up, but if it's the Standard DD set, then Heatran can just Roar it out and deal with it later, if it does KO something, Latios can revenge kill it. Landorus can hit it with Intimidate and Stone Edge hard.

    Dugtrio - The only thing that it threatens is Heatran. Everything else KOs it or doesn't take much damage from Earth Quake. Not much to say here really, I’ve just gotta play smart with double switches.

    Espeon – A very big threat. Latios can trick it, and Gengar can out speed (if it uses HP ground / Fighting since it lowers the IV) and hit hard with Shadow Ball. If I can predict the Baton Pass, Heatran can Roar it out. Heatran can also burn with Lava Plume and stall it out with Protect and smart switch in.

    Ferrothorn - Heatran is my best switch in for obvious reasons. Gengar can Disable Gyro Ball, and avoid the Thunder Wave / Leech Seed with Sub. It can then proceed to hit it hard with Focus Blast.

    Forretress - If it lacks Earth Quake, Heatran. If it lacks Payback, Gengar. Rotom-W is a general good switch in as it hits hard with Hydro Pump and Volt Switch.

    Gastrodon - Celebi. Heatran can Toxic it as it switches in to wall Heatran.

    Gengar - Heatran can't directly switch into it, but it can take a Focus Blast and do some nice damage back with Lava Plume or Roar it out. Rotom-W can Thunder Wave it, and hit hard with Hydro Pump and Volt Switch. Latios out speeds and can OHKO with Psyshock.

    Gliscor – Gengar is immune to Toxic and EQ and can proceed to hit hard with Shadow Ball. Celebi’s Giga Drain breaks the Sub, and can get rid of Toxic damage with Heal Bell. Rotom-W hits hard with Hydro Pump and can Rest off Toxic. Latios’s Surf does a lot of damage, but I don’t like using Latios to deal with Gliscor, as it can Protect and gain momentum.

    Gyarados - Depending on the sets. If it’s a Choice scarfed set, then I counter it depending on what moves it locks itself into. The Sub DD set is usually took on by Rotom,-W or Celebi. If it lacks bounce then Celebi walls it all day. If it does KO something, then Latios can revenge it at +1.

    Haxorus - If I can force it to use any move that isn't Outrage, then I can switch in Latios and KO it with Draco Meteor. If it’s choiced, it’s much easier to deal with. Heatran can scout what move it locks itself into, and Landorus-T is quite a good switch in thanks to Intimidate.

    Heatran – Rotom-W is the best switch in as it can hit hard with Hydro Pump or Thunder Wave. Landorus-T can hit hard with EQ and gain momentum with U-turn, and Latios can hit pretty hard with Surf.

    Hydreigon – Very hard to deal with, mainly because it has no true counters. Prediction is key when facing Hydreigon. Celebi can take a Draco Metoer, and Rotom-W can take a Fire Blast and Thunder Wave it. Gengar out speeds and can hit hard with Focus Blast. Latios out speeds and can revenge it.

    Infernape - Gengar can come in on the Close Combats, and Heatran can come in on the Fire type attacks. Latios resists both its STABs, out speeds, and can OHKO with Psyshock. Heatran can gain loads of momentum, since most are choiced, so I just Protect.

    Jellicent - Celebi doesn't take much from Shadow Ball, and can Giga Drain it. Heatran can take a Scald quite nicely and Toxic it. Rotom-W can switch in easily and Volt Switch, and Gengar does a lot with Shadow Ball.

    Jirachi - Heatran does well against most sets, and it doesn't mind paralysis too much. Rotom-W x4 resists Iron Head and can Thunder Wave it or hit it hard with Hydro Pump. Celebi can heal off any status from Jirachi.

    Jolteon - Celebi takes anything from Jolteon bar Shadow Ball, which can be absorbed by Heatran. Latios out speeds and hits very hard with Draco Meteor, and Rotom-W can hit hard with Hydro Pump, while easily taking a hit.

    Landorus – The Sheer Force set can be very scary. Rotom can take a Focus Blast (that’s if it hits), and hit hard with Hydro Pump. Latios out speeds sets without Rock Polish, as does Gengar, and hit it hard with their respective STAB. Celebi can take a HP ice pretty well and can Giga Drain for good damage. The physical sets are easier to deal with, as Heatran can scout (since most are Scarfed), and can switch into Gengar. Latios out speeds even the scarf set and OHKO’s with Surf.

    Latias - Heatran can Toxic it and Roar sets with Calm Mind, since most of their sets only carry one attacking move, Dragon Pulse. If it does KO something, I can put a nice dent in it with Latios. As a last resort, Gengar can Disable its only attacking option and just wait for a crit, but they have the same speed (if the Latias is EVed correctly), so it is kinda risky.

    Latios – My own Latios can out speed every set bar Choice Scarf Latios. In which case, Celebi walls it, Rotom-W walls it and can Thunder Wave, and Heatran can take anything bar a Surf, and can proceed to Toxic.

    Lucario - It can be pretty scary if I don't scout first. Sets using Ice Punch or Crunch are set up bait for Gengar, but if it carries Bullet Punch, Celebi can hit it pretty hard with Psychic. It doesn’t get much opportunity to set up either, but if it does, that’s how I deal with it.

    Magnezone - Its job is to trap steel types. Luckily, Heatran, my only steel type laughs at it. Celebi can take any hit nicely, bar a Choice Specs'd Hidden Power Fire, but I don't think they will by firing that off when they see Heatran. Landorus-T is immune to its Electric STAB and can OHKO with Earthquake.

    Mamoswine – Rotom-W is my only solid check, but Landorus-T can come in on Earthquakes and Superpowers while lowering its attack with Intimidate. As a last resort, Gengar can take an Ice Shard and hit it hard with Focus Blast.

    Metagross – Rotom-W is a solid check to Metagross, resisting its most common attacks. It can then proceed to Thunder Wave it or hit it hard with Hydro Pump. Landorus-T out speeds defensive sets and can EQ for great damage.

    Ninetales - Latios can take a Fire Blast and hit back hard with Draco Meteor. Heatran can absorb the Fire type attack and can take Hidden Power Fighting all day, as it only takes about 30% from it, so I can Toxic Stall it.

    Politoad - Celebi can Giga Drain it and take any hit. Heatran can Toxic it on the switch, and just stall it from there. If it’s an offensive Politoad I can check it with Celebi, Rotom-W, and Latios.

    Reuniclus – The CM set is stopped cold by Gengar, and Latios can cripple it with Trick. The Trick Room sweeper however is very hard to deal with. Rotom-W can take a few hits and hit it hard with Hydro Pump or Thunder Wave for hax. Gengar can also hit it hard once Trick Room has ran out.

    Rotom-W - Celebi can take anything pretty well and Giga Drain. Heatran can Toxic it on the switch and it can take a hit from any set bar Choice Specs and Toxic it, if I have to. Latios can put a nice dent into it. My Rotom-W can take hits pretty well too and just Thunder Wave it.

    Salamence – Landorus-T can switch in and lower its attack with Intimidate. It can then proceed to Stone Edge for the OHKO after SR. Latios out speeds Mence at +1 and can OHKO with Draco Meteor.

    Scizor - Usually banded. If it’s banded, Heatran walls it. I have to watch out for Super Power, so Landorus-T is also a great switch, resisting everything bar Bullet Punch, which does nothing. Rotom-W can take on banded Bullet Punches all day and hit it hard with Hydro Pump.

    Skarmory - Heatran can scare it off with Lava Plume, and Rotom-W can gain momentum with Volt Switch.

    Starmie - Celebi walls any set that isn't Choice Specs (which is rarely used), and Rotom-W does work to most sets with Volt Switch.

    Tentacruel – Celebi can Psychic is for good damage. Rotom-W can Volt Switch, and Latios can Psyshock.

    Terrakion – Landorus-T is a great counter to any set. Intimidate makes sure even Banded Terrakion can’t 2HKO with Stone Edge. Earthquake can then proceed to OHKO. Latios out speeds any set and OHKO’s with Psyshock with some prior damage. Gengar can come in on Close Combats and Disable Stone Edge, forcing it to switch out.

    Tornadus-T - My first mission is to set up SR. From there, Heatran and Rotom-W can deal with it. Latios out speeds Tornadus-T and can OHKO with SR damage + Draco Meteor.

    Toxicroak - Usually a Bulk Up set in rain. This means that Gengar can beat it one on one. I sub up as they use Sucker Punch or Bulk up, hit them with Shadow Ball as they Sucker Punch or Bulk Up, and then Disable Sucker Punch. If it hasn’t set up a sub, Landorus-T can take it on easily.

    Tyranitar - Landorus-T can switch in pretty easily, and U-turn out or Earthquake. Tyranitar can Toxic stall it, and Gengar can hit hard with Focus Blast.

    Vaporeon - Celebi is my best answer, but if its the Hydration wall in Rain, it really can be bothersome. Rotom-W can Volt Switch, and Latios can Trick it. If it isn’t is the Rain, then Heatran can take a hit and Toxic Stall it.

    Venasaur - I let my least needed team member to take the Sleep Powder, and then Heatran walls sets lacking Earthquake. Latios out speeds Modest Venusaur, which is nice as a last check, and Celebi can take a HP fire is it’s not at +2.

    Volcarona - Heatran walls any set lacking Hidden Power Ground, but those carrying HP ground are a big problem. Latios can Trick it and then wall it depending on the move.



    FACING AGAINST OTHER PLAY STYLES​


    Show Hide
    Rain teams – Rotom-W deals with most Rain teams very well, and their only general counter is Gastrodon or Ferrothorn, both of which are dealt with Heatran and Celebi. Celebi also takes on the bulky Water types, like Gastrodon, Politoed, and Tentecruel. Heatran lures in most bulky water types and Toxic’s them.

    Sand teams – Landorus-T takes on most of Sand teams, like Tyranitar, Stoutland, and Magnezone. Celebi and Rotom-W take on bulky Ground types often seem on Sand teams, like Hippowdon and Gliscor.

    Sun teams – Heatran can take on basically any Sun team lacking Dugtrio or Donphan and Toxic stall everything. Latios resists most attacks commonly seen on Sun teams, like Grass and Fire, and Venusaur is dealt with depending on the set.

    Deoxys-D teams – I lead off with Gengar and set up a Sub. This usually means they get up 1 layer of Spikes and SR, but most of my team are immune to Spikes, so it doesn’t matter too much. I then KO Deoxys-D and then proceed to hit the next switch in hard (since most of these teams have frail sweepers).


    TEAM REFERENCES.​


    Show Hide
    The Crocodile’s Wrath by Neliel Tu Oderschvank
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3474250

    The Art of Rain Stall by M Dragon.
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3455765

    Simulation of a Drought by Lavos Spawn
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472159

    Art of Ruin by BKC.
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3461986


    SHOUTOUTS!​

    Show Hide
    Shout out to Taylor for recovering this RMT for me and saving me loads of time.

    Shout out to Aqua for being a huge nub and a really cool guy.

    Shout out to PokeDS and everyone in the group.

    Shout out to Kupo for hosting a PS! Server filled with cool people.

    Shout out to shartruce2 for suggesting Landorus-T over Terrakion and giving me the EV spread. http://www.smogon.com/forums/member.php?u=38929

    Shout out to pif (known as hilarious on smogon) for basically teaching me everything I know about Pokemon. I love you brah!


    CONCLUSION​


    Well, there's my team guys. It has been very consistent in winning games for me. I ladder on the PokemonShowdown server, and I peeked 2nd. As stated before, all constructive criticism is welcome so please feel free to post a comment. If you've read this whole RMT, then major respect.​

    If you enjoyed the read, or you use the team, then please leave a Luvdisc. It just gives me feedback on the team. Thanks!
  2. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

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    Hey ShootinStarmie!

    As expected, this is a very solid team. The only comment I can make is about Celebi; I find Psychic a bit redundant with Latios's Psyshock, and because of the fact that your threatlist and description reveal that you don't use Psychic very much, I think another move can be used, for maximum efficiency. Instead of Psychic, I would use U-Turn instead, to pivot to another member and have a smoother transition. It's a great move to scout switch ins too, and can be useful in tight spots. With U-Turn, you could also try Leaf Storm over Giga Drain- for the extra hit and run fire power. However, due to your team's more defensive nature, Giga Drain could still be more useful in certain situations.

    Cool team!

    EDIT: hey if even MJB gets a shoutout I want one too then :P
  3. CyberOdin

    CyberOdin

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    580
    Good anti metal, congratulations I really like, the only little problem I find is that a Chansey could complicate the game if latios wasting a bad trick, the landorus-t has Stone Edge dragonite suppose to but I think it's more effective to Knoff remove items and I think you will be very effective, but of course you would rather sloppy against a Dragon Dance Dragonite, only if Chansey gives many problems or you can also occupy him for a leech seed bell and wallearla hell with Heatran or damage giving landorus-t with earquaker and other equipment that you would think would be a pretty problem that is quite annoying stall and not have a rapid Spinder but if you want to get one because if you try to replace it with Tentacruel @ Black Sludge Trait: Liquid Ooze (this is only for the ferrothorn or Celebi with leech seed) can also put raind water dish for teams, set: Sludge bomb, rapid spin, scald and toxic spikes, (the spikes will help quite toxic for computers that do not have a ground pokemon poison and if have spin depending gengar can stop them with that pokémon is the Spinder, bomp sludge is to stabeo and occasionally some pokémon poison can also couple it one toxic or protective to prevent, scald for stabeo and state problem and rapid spin to remove hazards) and good then everything else look good
  4. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

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    1,350
    Hey Eletrolyte, thanks for the rate man, means a lot. I was thinking about U-turn on Celebi to grab momentum and prehaps form a Volt-turn core with Celebi, Landorus-T, and Rotom-W. As for Leaf Storm, I could also test that out, but I feel Giga Drain is much more reliable.

    CyberOdin, thanks for the rate dude :) Yeah you're right, Chansey does give me a lot of problems as I can't do anything to it bar force it to switch out. I usually stall it out until its the last Pokemon and then either Trick it or Toxic Stall it, but really that isn't a great way to deal with Blissey :c

    As for your spinner suggestion, I can't really say I agree too much, as 4 out of 6 of my Pokemon are immune to Spikes, and Celebi has Recover to make Spikes less damaging. Heatran does take damage from Spikes I guess, but I don't think its that big of a deal. Thanks for the rate anyway man :)
  5. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
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    165
    ShootinStarmie this RMT defenitly earns its name great job,Only a little nitpick I have is gengar:Try HP Fire over disable I know disable is very usefull but I can see scizor doing massive damage to this team if it gets a SD up if heatran is down and this "lure set"(Sub HP Fire) can defeat Scizor 100% of the time with a sub up.
  6. Imanalt

    Imanalt WHY BUNNELBY DO HAVE FUR?
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    2,009
    landorus-t has no recovery, and so cant exactly reliably switch into banded tyranitar, which pretty much has its way with everything on yoru team except gengar...

    i'd suggest running a banded scizor over celebi to help with this, as well as helping patch up your teams general inability to switch into dark and ghost attacks.

    Make that change and i think you're good :)
  7. ShadowAbra

    ShadowAbra

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Very nice defensive team and although I am meh at defense i'll try my best, Trying to avoid all that's been said, It seems to be you were having trouble with scizor because of Celebi so you could replace Celebi with Sp.def jirachi and use terrakion which would alleviate the chansey problem. Though it would just open you to a mess of new threats previously stopped by celebi, overall it's give and take probably too much take. btw LUVDISC
  8. hilarious

    hilarious

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    559
    shadowabra this team has defensive elements but i would hardly call it a defensive team. it looks like a pretty solid balanced team to me.

    i didnt think you could legitamately make a team that is roughly 6-0d by sharpedo, there you go again proving me wrong. just play more conservatively with rotom if you see a sharpedo i guess.

    i don't actually have too much to say except that i think you are underestimating your weakness to rain teams in general since they often have a celebi which is a full stop to your rain counter (rotom) and can actually lol at heatran with epower or just taking like no damage from lava plume in rain.

    also congrats on not succumbing to faggy weather teams like how 99.9995 of ou has.
  9. ala

    ala
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    4,013
    Hey ShootinStarmie, I got your PM, so I'll help you out :)

    I tested your team out a bit, and made a couple of changes that I think will benefit you.

    1)Your team is too defensive.

    Okay, so I noticed your team is pretty defensive right off the bat, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The problem is that your team is so defensive it fails to do much damage to anything. It also lacks entry hazards to be able to fully capitalize on using such defensive movesets. You lack a wallbreaker, unfortunately Gengar is a tad on the weak side with Leftovers. Here's what I did to give the team a true wallbreaker/sweeper:

    I have used Offensive RP Landorus-T a lot recently, and it is one of the most underrated sweepers in the game. Its raw power will help you to bust down walls that currently give the team a lot of trouble. Here is the set I would suggest using:

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Swords Dance

    So depending on what team you're facing, you can use either Rock Polish against fast offensive style teams or Swords Dance to break through stall. If you can get both set up moves off you pretty much win the game. Now, with this change, you obviously need a Stealth Rock user. I changed Recover to Stealth Rock on Celebi, as Giga Drain provides sufficient recovery and Celebi is a great user of Stealth Rock.

    2)You have a weakness to Scizor.

    Scizor is a real pain for this team because he can not only trap your main revenge killer/cleaner Latios, he also traps Gengar who is a main source of offense. Granted, Gengar can survive with some successful mind games but that's not necessarily a chance I think you should take. I would suggest using HP Fire over Psychic on Celebi. Another user above mentioned you already have Psyshock on Latios, and HP Fire still hits Breloom and Toxicroak for a lot of damage.

    Also, Swords Dance Scizor can really hurt this team, as many of them use Speed to get by Heatran. To counteract this, I would suggest using Will-o-Wisp over Thunderwave on Rotom-W. As much as I like paralysis, I have to admit with arguably the fastest Scarfed pokemon in the game (Latios) it really is not needed. Pokemon like Rock Polish Terrakion are beaten by Will-o-Wisp anyway.

    3)You are weak to Sun teams.

    Sun teams, especially Fire pokemon on Sun teams can really give you trouble. This mostly stems from the fact that your Heatran only has one attacking move in Lava Plume. I would suggest using Earth Power over Roar or Toxic to help combat this. Latios can beat Venusaur (pre-Growth) and outspeed the Fire types. The problem is mainly Heatran in the Sun, and nobody can take a hit from him. Your best bet would be to Trick the Scarf onto him and use Earth Power to beat him. Thankfully Sun teams are pretty rare, but a good one can give you some trouble. Just something to think about.

    I think you can combat Chansey ok, who is always hard for specially oriented teams to face. Gengar sets up on Chansey, and can Disable Softboiled/Wish. Rotom-W can burn Chansey and Latios can Trick her. Landorus-T can do massive damage as well.

    I hope this helped you out, it's nice to see Gengar being used! Best of luck with the team man.
  10. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    346
    Excellent team man, honestly, and grats on the 2nd :]

    However im here to throw your dreams away, you know, nothing personal.

    On a serious sense, i see a really big issue with the standard offense core of Sand teams: BandTar and Scarf Keldeo. If you take a close look to your team, you have 2 answers to Keldeo: Celebi and Latios. Now this 2 pokes are complete and utter Pursuit fodder after, either they killed a poke, or a well timed Volt Switch/double switch from your opponent. After that, Keldeo does work incredibly easily, 2HKOing every poke in your team with its Dual STAB.

    Now, my suggestion is simple for this matter: Baton Pass over Psychic on Celebi, it lets you esccape TTar, thus becoming a permanent pain in the ass for the entire sand team, especially for the rising power that is Scarf Keldeo. Oh and btw, smack down>stone edge on lando, this lets you beat most rotom w as they switch in, and you win 1 on1 against skarm.

    Hope i helped :]
  11. BlankZero

    BlankZero
    is a Tutor

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    Aug 25, 2012
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    1,839
    Is smack down more viable than Gravity though?
  12. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    784
    Hi, your team is already great, so there's not much to say here. The only problem I can see is that you have some difficulties going through blobs, yeah you can of course set-up on them with Gengar, but then? You can be potentially PP stalled, since even if you Disable Softboiled / Wish, Focus Blast won't do much and only has 8 PP, while Blissey / Chansey usually carries some big PP moves like SR, Seismic Toss, and similars, which can easily lead you in bad PP stalling wars. Of course Blissey is not going to stay in on Lando, so that's not even a solution most of the times. And, if you find the only Blissey that carries Ice Beam, it can be quite painful since it's enough to break Gengar's Subs, switch to a revenge killer on the Disable, and hit Lando if it dares to come in. This fact is probably caused by the general defensiveness of your team; I agree with ala on its first point, both on his analysis and his solution (Double Dance Lando-T), so I'm just supporting that. Other than this, your team seems solid and I don't have much other to say. Good luck!
  13. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Well i dont like this type of team, they always seems good on the paper but then they dont have a way to finish the battle, they dont have strong attackers or bulky walls, anyway it seems that you have done a nice work with this team so im gonna rate it.

    The first thing i noticed looking at your team is that you have problem with the common Scizor+Rotom-w core. Believe it or not, im quite sure that just these two pokemon can give problem, because your switch-ins for Rotom-w, Latios and Celebi, are both screwed by pursuit, so a well builded Volturn team can sweep with Terrakion or Keldeo once they eliminated this two pokemon.
    This is not even a big problem to tell you the truth since you can just put hidden power Fire on Celebi and you have solved most of the problem, since you can switch in on Volt switch of rotom adn then do serious damage to scizor, hp fire also comes in handy to murder Ferrothorn, which can be a problem if it has spikes, as well as Forretress or Skarmory. Honestly i dont think that Heal bell is that usefull here, in bw2 not so many things run status move. Special defense Jirachi is just stopped by Heatran, no matter if its paralized or not, bulky waters running Scald and toxic are stopped by Chesto rotom-w and Celebi itself, since it has Natural cure, Breloom has spore but then if you cure your team Breloom is free to sleep an another pokemon, then what else? Heal bell is not even a must in full-stall team, so its even worst in balanced teams.

    As someone else already said, you are very weak to Skarmory+Blissey. Rotom-w, Celebi, Heatran and Gengar are all stopped by Blissey, im also quite sure that Earthquake of Landorus against a bulky Chansey wont ko it and anyway Landorus is stopped by Skarmory. I would suggest you to use the standard Sub Split Gengar, because in this way you can win againt Blissey, because Pain split has a lot more Hp than Softboiled, meaning that you can ppstall it. Its also good because thanks to life orb you have a powerfull wallbreaker, which is needed here i think, since as someone already said this team is too defensive and it need a way to break walls. Pain split is also good because it gives you a nice recovery. I would also say that Disable is not that usefull in this team, you mentioned Conkeldurr which is stopped by Celebi anyway since it has psichic and Scrafty, which is quite inesistent in this metagame, and its also koed by focus blast.

    Gengar set:
    Show Hide
    Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Pain Split


    Heal bell > hidden power fire
  14. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    364
    Hi Shooting Starmie, this is a well balanced team and has great synergy, but there are a few troublesome Pokemon that I'd like to point out.
    First off life orb mamoswine will run through the team seeing as everything is at least 2hkoed. Banded terrakion/ttar's stone edges have1 switchin, and it's not going to stick around to take too many of those with the lack of recovery. Dragonite also forces Landorus to take alot of damage therefore softening it for a physical hitter.
    I would say that gengar is really a weak link for the team, as it is too weak to hit for any damage and offers little defensive synergy. I feel like the team needs a wall breaker and something to deal with terrak and mamo. That brings an underrated wall breaker to mind--
    Cm keldeo. Since the team is more balanced you can even use scald over surf or hydro to burn the lati switchin and outstall it with celebi. The last move is up to you. It could be icy wind, Hp ice, or even a reliable rest in combination with celebi's heal bell. The only things that switch into keldeo are bulky waters and latis or opposing celebi/grass pokes, so celebi handles them while healing off the sleep. This helps you with the blobs, terrak, mamo, heatran, and ttar + keldeo which was a serious problem. I really don't see the loss of gar being too significant, and keldeo patches up your weaknesses quite well!

    Keldeo (M) @ leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Rest/Hp Ice/Icy Wind

    Grats on second! Good luck with the team.
  15. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
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    @Oiawesome, thanks for the rate dude. I will try HP fire over Psychic, as a lot of people are suggesting this, so thanks for that :)

    @Imanalt, thanks for the rate man. As for your suggestion about Scizor other Celebi, I can't really agree with you here. Lando-T does take on Tyranitar quite well, and if I replace Celebi, I leave myself very open to Rain teams in general, something Scizor can't handle, you do bring up a good point however that I am pretty weak to banded Tyranitar.

    @ShadowAbra, thanks for the rate man. Jirachi does seem like it could work in Celebi's place, as it still takes on Rain teams pretty well and has reliable recovery. Its funny that you should mention Terrakion, as it was on the team before, and I had no problems with the pink blobs then, lol. Maybe I'll switch back.

    @hilarious OMG its pif <3 I hope you liked my shout out to you :3 You're right about Sharpedo, it really 6-0's this team if Rotom-W is weakened, so I just gotta play smart when I see that thing. I wouldn't say I underestimate it, but even Celebi on a Rain team is no big deal, as Gengar can come in on an Earth Power or Giga Drain easily and force it out.

    @Ala, thanks for getting back to me man. I actually really like your Landorus-T suggestion, mainly because it still checks Terrakion and Dragonite fairly well, while being able to sweep. I will test it asap. You're also right about Scizor, as it can do some serious work to my team. I'm going to test HP fire on Celebi, and if Scizor becomes really popular (which it will) then I will bump Heatran's speed up to 160 (allowing it to out pace maximum speed adamant Scizor). Heatran with a Sun team has caused me problems before, but there's a few ways I look over this.

    1. If Heatran isn't running Leftovers, the chances are its offensive. Now Rotom can take a hit pretty well and Thunder Wave, allowing Landorus-T to out speed at KO easily with EQ. If its the defensive set in sun, then it can't really do much back to my Heatran, so its not that big of a deal, and like you said its quite rare to find a good sun team with Heatran, I will keep this in mind though, thanks Ala.

    @Stone RG, hey man, thanks for the compliments, lol. You do bring up a good point about Tyranitar and Keldeo, however, it really comes down to actually playing against the team. If I play well, I won't lose to these guys (most of the time). However, it would be so much easier to play against Tyranitar (and Scizor) if I had Baton Pass. It would also let me grab momentum and gain switch advantage, which sort of forms a Volt turn core with Landorus-T and Rotom-W. I will be testing Baton Pass, as it makes complete sense :)

    @ganj4lF Thanks for pointing that out man. Yeah, Ala's suggestion makes a lot of sense, so I will test it out for sure, thanks for the comment :)

    @Neliel Tu Oderschvank, hey man, its great to hear from you, since your team basically inspired me to back into Pokemon, lol. As for your suggestions, I do agree that HP should be used, and I will test it on Celebi asap. I really like your Sub Split Gengar suggestion too, since Gengar with Leftovers does sometimes lack the fire power for decent damage. I will test it :)

    @CTC, hey man, thanks for the rate. Its great to hear from a battler such as yourself. Its funny you should point out Mamoswine, because it really it hard to handle with this team. Rotom-W is considered a good check, but it take about 60% from a LO SuperPower, which is very sad. I do like your Keldeo suggestion, mainly because it forms a very offensive core with Latios, and it helps me deal with the blobs better, Tyranitar, and Scizor, so I will try it out, thanks CTC!

    And finally, thanks to everyone who has used this team, gave it a rate, or game it a luvdisc, it really means a lot :)
  16. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,522
    Hey, I got your PM. Ala pretty much said everything I was going to say, so I would make all of the changes he suggested. The only downside is that you lose a decent switchin to CB Terrakion, but Landorus-T still doesn't like taking Stone Edges, and without reliable recovery, it's going to get wittled down very quickly anyway.

    Cool team
  17. Giacomo

    Giacomo

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    I think you should put Hidden Power [Ice] on your Landorus-Therian, to counter Gliscor and his friends. Here is the set i use:

    [​IMG]
    (I can't find the Therian form sprite)

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn

    I hope it helped =)
    [​IMG]'ed
  18. Basti

    Basti

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    133
    I think you need to change the atk IVs on Celebi and Gengar to 0 to make your team fully counter any form of confusion. Also, I agree with user bigmountain98. Golurk of lanorust terkion DOES hurt and golurk stop of it.. you shouldn't underestimate that.

    All jokes aside though, great team! The only thing I would change is fitting u-turn somewhere on Celebi, but I guess that's personal preference.

    Oh, and good job on #2!
  19. iAdam

    iAdam

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    nice job, this is why you dominate ou XD. I agree with the grass/water/fire core and rotom-W adds tons of synergy to almost any team . I started using one like a week ago and it allows to me to deal damage and rarely take hits
  20. TheStriker

    TheStriker

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    117
    For Landorus-T, why not invest some EVs in SDef? You'll get both speciall bul and the physical defense at no cost than maybe 20 HP + but you can stay in on Ninetales and predicts switch-ins easily.
  21. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    Hey ShootinStarmie!~ [​IMG]

    I got the request.. but I'm not sure if I can make a really useful rate. You cover many threats brilliantly and feature some awesome defensive/offensive coverage. Celetran + SDef Rotom-W is such a great defensive core, especially when paired with Landorus-T for those difficult Terrakion switch-ins. However, I don't see a single Rock resist preventing CB Terrakion from simply spamming Stone Edge. It's a common conception that CB Terrakion spams CC to weaken fighting resists, but without a Rock resist, nothing really stops it from spamming its alternative STAB. With 8 Stone Edges total, it can switch in and 2HKO everything except Landorus-T, which will die to a 3rd one. And once Landorus-T is down (which is likely if it switches into CB Terrakion with Rocks up 3 times), all Terrakion has to do is get a safe switch-in and Stone Edge its way to victory.

    I propose a suggestion. To keep perfect synergy, supply Stealth Rock, and retain valuable recovery with the ability to switch into any of Terrakion's moves, try out a Gliscor (over Lando-T)! I'll post the set and then explain why it can be superior:
    Gliscor (open)

    [​IMG] (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Roost
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn / Ice Fang / Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    (The EVs allow you to live 2 CB Stone Edges while outspeeding Jirachi/Tentacruel before they Iron Head/Scald you) Gliscor pretty much has the exact same moveset as Landorus-T along with Toxic Heal recovery + solid Roost recovery but lacks the attack power that the opposition has. However, if switching into offensive behemoths and pivoting out is your key, then offensive pressure won't make too much of a difference. I mean, yeah, Landorus-T's power keeps set-up sweepers in check (who sets up on EdgeQuake coming from 145 base Atk?), but it still doesn't have the innate ability to make Terrakion look like a Wurmple. I kept the moveset very similar to your Landorus set because change is hard in life (lol) and it's a comfort zone thing. The only problem is the 4MSS you get when adding Roost. U-turn makes it a good pivot, but then it can't hit Dragon Dancing Dragonite or other flying types. Ice Fang hits these, but then Gliscor loses its scouting/pivot abilities. Stone Edge can be pretty useful to wear down Rotom-W or nap a surprise kill on a weakened Tornadus-T while still hitting Dragonite. ROOST, though, is the crux of the set. Since that Gliscor is almost never 2HKO'd by a CB Stone Edge even after SR (252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs 252 HP/180 Def Gliscor (+Def) : 44.92% - 52.82% (2 hits to KO)), you can take another one and Roost off the damage. If you keep Gliscor healthy, you can switch into Terrakion as much as you want and continuously Roost off the damage until they run out of Stone Edges. Then your team has a field day against Terrakion. It also helps against other physically offensive threats, especially ones that have Life Orb (stalling is boring but effective). Teams that exhibit multiple recovery moves are also a pain in the ass to deal with, and can cause (some of) your opponent to lose patience and start making risky or dangerous plays to break stall cores. You can capitalize on this. Anyway, even though Gliscor is very similar, access to Roost gives it the make-it part of the "make-it or break-it" debate. Having a relatively balanced team broken apart by a single move is never fun.

    And this ends my rate. I hope it was of some help. Good teams are hard to rate lol. Anyway, good luck! I wish you the best!~

    Summary of Changes

    • [​IMG]
      • change to [​IMG]
        • Set:
          Show Hide

          Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
          Trait: Poison Heal
          EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spd
          Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
          - Roost
          - Stealth Rock
          - U-turn / Ice Fang / Stone Edge
          - Earthquake
  22. Iminyourcloset

    Iminyourcloset OBJECTION! What do you mean I have a weakness now?!
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    188
    Hey SS. I like your team. tbh, I'm just rating cuz we're bros, and I just want to talk about something pretty big: No rock resistance. This is kinda scary; if something happens to Latios, or it's tricked its item, I feel like SCarfTerra could come in and thrash around (althought you're most likely too skilled to let that happen.) Anyway, I like your team. Oh and also: I think you should make Celebi an annoyer: maybe make it more physically defensive? (that's optional) But I used to LOVE this moveset: T-wave/Giga Drain/LEech Seed/Recover. It just keeps gaining HP, and your opponent just kinda sits there. It's a bit stallish, but I think you could definitely try it out. Good Luck and all.

    (eww OU...)

    However, I'm probably the worst person possible to rate this.
  23. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    165
    Sorry I dont mean to be a jerk but I think you missread what I said,I said HP Fire over disable on gengar,not on celebi,sprry.Also Mixed Attacker Pivot lando could help this team as it can take on threats like scizor and sharpedos that switch in ill post the set if you are intrested.
  24. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,350
    @MikeDecIsHere, hey man, thanks for rating this team. Yeah Ala makes a good suggestion, and I will be testing it out :)

    @Giacomo, hey man, thanks for the advice, but I'm not sure I can fit HP onto anyway, since every move serves a great purpose on Landorus-T. I guess I could test HP Ice > Stone Edge so I can still hit Dragon types hard, so I guess I'll test it, thanks c:

    @Basti, hey thanks man, its great to hear from you again. Ehh, U-turn does make sense as it forms a Volt turn core with Landorus-T and Rotom-W, but it doesn't stop me from being trapped by Tyranitar and Scizor, which is why I'm considering Baton Pass. Thanks for the rate man!

    @iAdam, lol, I'm glad you like the team man, and yeah, Celetran with Rotom-W is solid imo.

    @Gimmick, hey Gimmick, thanks for rating this team. You always give out solid rates. Anyway, I like the Gliscor set, but what I'm worried about is 4MSS. I'm thinking of maybe running that Gliscor set but with SR / Taunt / EarthQuake / U-turn, since Poison Heal is pretty sweet recovery anyway, and Taunt would help me quite a bit with set up sweepers, like SD Scizor and DD Nite. I dunno, I guess I'm going to test every move slot and see which one suits me best. Thanks for the rate again, and thanks for the huge compliment man.

    @Closet, hey man, thanks for rating the team <3 You're right, the no resistance to Rock is a pain in the ass, and Banded Tyranitar is annoying. Terrakion isn't too annoying, since even if it does KO something I can revenge it pretty easily. The Celebi set looks pretty cool, as it looks like it'd force a lot of switches, which would be awesome. I'll try it out. thanks man :)

    @Oiawesome, sorry about that man, I got the comments mixed up, lol. HP Fire does seem like a good lure on paper, but I think the coverage that Focus Blast offers is much more beneficial, as with HP fire and Shadow Ball, I'm completely walled by Tyranitar, who can also trap me. I am interested in that Mix Lando set however...
  25. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    165
    I was talking about replacing disable I am very sorry if I am making not understandable posts.Anyway the Mix lando hysical pivot is:

    Mixed Lando physical Pivot (open)
    Landorus @ Life Orb
    Naughty/Rash Nature Nature
    Trait:Intimidate
    EVs:248 HP/52 Atk/216 SpA
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power Ice/Fire(For Ice Weak mons/Scizor respectivly)
    - U-Turn/Stone Edge/Rock Polish
    - Focus Blast/Rock Polish/Stealth Rock


    Why use this set and not Landorus Incanarate?
    • More Base attack
    • The Big fish:Intimidate
    • Way better Scizor switch in due to "the big fish"
    • Outclasses L-I. As a better Offensive Pivot/SR user
    • Forces more switches thus better use of u turn
    • More END LIST

    TL;DR (open)
    • Defensive Pivot LandoT---->Physical Tank Mixed LandoT
    • Disable--->HP Fire ON GENGAR(Basicly SubDisableGar---->SubHP FireGar)

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