Phanpy (Gen 4, LC Analysis)''

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Black Buddha, Sep 1, 2009.

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  1. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    FULLY REVAMPED FOR HGSS
    Status: Awaiting critique for additions since I don't think I have covered everything to do with HGSS
    Grammar checks are also welcome
    Last check: Fuzznip

    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/phanpy

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    [SET]
    name: Lead / Tank
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Head Smash
    move 4: Ice Shard
    item: Oran Berry
    nature: Impish / Adamant
    evs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Phanpy can utilize its great defensive stats and access to Stealth Rock to become a formidable lead. Phanpy's bulk allows it to take a hit from common leads such as Meowth, Aipom, and Diglett and 2HKO back with the combination of Earthquake and Ice Shard. Phanpy also usually ends up on top against Voltorb, who only has a 2% chance of 2HKOing Phanpy with Hidden Power Ice, even with max Special Attack, and a slight chance of OHKOing with Explosion. Head Smash gives Phanpy a solid move to hit switch-ins like Misdreavus and Mantyke, while providing good coverage alongside Earthquake, Bronzor and Baltoy being the only ones resistant to this combo.</p>

    <p>This set can also be used as a sturdy tank, as it can be sent in later to set up Stealth Rock and start attacking off of a decent Attack stat of 15 or 16 with an Adamant nature, which allows you to break the standard Misdreavus' Substitute with Ice Shard instead of resorting to Head Smash's shaky accuracy. If Phanpy is used as a tank, Counter can be used to get a few surprise KOs due to Phanpy's high HP stat; however, be sure that you will KO with the Counter, as Counter revolves around the element of surprise.</p>

    <p>The EVs in the set are tailored so that Houndour has a very small chance of OHKOing with Overheat, and the Speed EVs allow you to outspeed, or at least tie, with Omanyte, whom you can swiftly OHKO with Seed Bomb.</p>

    <p>One reason to use this Phanpy over Gligar or Bronzor is that Phanpy is a sure-shot counter to Choice Scarf Cranidos. It resists Stone Edge, Ice Beam never 2HKOes through Oran Berry and Earthquake has less than 0.5% chance of 3HKOing. In return, Phanpy OHKOes back with Earthquake, and the rare Rock Polish variants are finished off Ice Shard, securing Phanpy's place as a solid Cranidos counter, something neither Gligar nor Bronzor can claim to be.</p>

    <p>As a lead, Phanpy has trouble dealing with Omanyte and defensive Kabuto, as well as Snover. Mantyke pairs up nicely with Phanpy here as it can take multiple hits from Omanyte thanks to its humongous Special Defense, while threatening to OHKO with Hidden Power Grass or set up an Agility. LeadDour is also troublesome for Phanpy, yet Mantyke can handle it as well. It further complements Phanpy by taking special hits directed at Phanpy as well as possessing a useful Water Immunity to take on Scarf Wailmer leads. Snover can eliminated with a Croagunk, thanks to its STAB priority move in Vacuum Wave, while being able to break a potential Substitute with Fake Out. Croagunk can also be used over Mantyke to take on all of the aforementioned threats, however this leaves Phanpy without a sturdy specially defensive tank. Phanpy is also useless against Bronzor, and so Magnet Rise Magnemite gets mention for being able to take Bronzor out reliably while providing a resistance to Ice attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Head Smash
    move 4: Seed Bomb / Superpower
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Phanpy can just about pull together enough moves for a Choice Band set, and it makes a decent Choice Bander too, achieving an Attack stat of 24. Earthquake will be your attacking move of choice, as a 100 Base Power STAB attack off that reasonably high Attack stat is bound to dent anything not resistant or immune to it. Ice Shard is a much-wanted priority move, and makes Phanpy an excellent revenge-killer. Even max HP / max Def Gligar has a chance of being 2HKO'd by Ice Shard, factoring in the recovery from its Oran Berry.</p>

    <p>Head Smash is an ideal choice for the third moveslot, hitting Flying-types and Bug-types for super effective, especially Paras who can otherwise survive all other attacks and put Phanpy to sleep with Spore. Seed Bomb hits Water-types such as Staryu and Clamperl harder than any other of Phanpy's moves, whereas Superpower hits Bronzor for decent damage, but the Attack and Defense drops are not appreciated. Superpower also allows gives Ghost-types another opportunity to switch in to, which could have disastrous results late game.</p>

    <p>The EVs give you maximum Attack and optimal Defense, as Phanpy will not be outrunning anything soon without a Scarf, and the extra bulk allows it to 2HKO certain threats while being able to take random priority hits it self, such as a Dragon Dance Dratini's ExtremeSpeed after a single boost.</p>

    <p>Even though Choice Band Phanpy deals a chunk of damage even to Pokemon who resist its STAB moves, it is still largely walled by quite a few. Bronzor is the main counter, who can be taken out by Magnet Rise Magnemite easily. Phanpy also becomes set up bait for Drifloon and Misdreavus once it nabs a kill with Earthquake. Stunky that invests in HP provides a fine check for the aforementioned Ghosts. Munchlax is a good defensive partner for Phanpy, shrugging off Ice attacks and specially based Grass and Water moves, while hitting Ghosts with Pursuit and Bronzor with Fire Punch or Fire Blast.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Endeavor
    move 1: Endure
    move 2: Endeavor
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Ice Shard
    item: Salac Berry
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 196 Atk / 196 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This may seem like a gimmick at first glance, but it works to an extent under a sandstorm. The plan of action is to simply use Endure on the turn you think an opponent’s attack will OHKO you. As you survive the hit, Salac Berry activates, making you faster than every non-Choice Scarf Pokemon. After that has been accomplished, proceed to Endeavor their switch and unless they are finished off by the sandstorm, use Ice Shard to secure the KO. Even after taking out an opponent, you can proceed to hit hard with STAB Earthquakes, while finishing weakened opponents off with Ice Shard. Flail may be used over Endeavor, but Eevee and Doduo do that better, unless you have sandstorm support.</p>

    <p>The only things that wall this set are Ghost-types, and Stunky acts as a reliable check to these. Hippopotas, while being extremely similar to Phanpy stat-wise as well as type-wise, is mandatory here for providing an unending sandstorm. Priority users also give Endeavor Phanpy trouble. Bronzor takes little damage from most priority attacks, and as such it makes a great partner to switch in after Phanpy falls, which won't take long considering it will stay at 1 HP most of the time.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Like most other tanks, Choice Band Phanpy greatly appreciates both Stealth Rock and dual screens in play. Stealth Rock make Flying-Types think twice before switching into a Choiced Earthquake, and also breaks all Focus Sashes on the opponent’s team, making switching frail and fast revenge-killers in harder. Dual Screens are greatly appreciated on the Tank set, as they both increase Phanpy's staying power, allowing it to set up Stealth Rock easier as well as stay on the offensive for longer. For the Endeavour set, Sand Stream support from Hippopotas is required, as it finishes off Pokemon lowered to one HP by Endeavor.</p>

    <p>Offensively, Phanpy needs a few teammates to help it really shine by taking out its common counters. First of all, Magnet Rise Magnemite comfortably deals with Bronzor, a thorn in the side for every Phanpy user. Stunky is another such Pokemon that greatly assists Phanpy by eliminating the Ghost-types of Little Cup, namely Misdreavus, Drifloon, Gastly, and Duskull, all of which freely come in on a locked Earthquake. Once they are removed, however, Phanpy destroys most unprepared teams with ease. Finally, fast, frail sweepers do well when their backs are covered by Phanpy's natural bulkiness. Sweepers such as Bellsprout and Houndour are just examples of sweepers that pair up well with Phanpy offensively, as they both appreciate the elimination of Focus Sashes as well as the residual damage, turning many 2HKOes into OHKOes, while Phanpy is always there to take a hit for them.</p>

    <p>When paired with certain Pokemon, Phanpy forms a solid defensive core. Mantyke covers Phanpy's weaknesses quite well, sporting an immunity to one of the most common offensive types, Water, while using its massive base 120 Special Defense to sponge neutral special Grass and Ice type hits. In return, Phanpy is unfazed by Electric moves and shrugs off even the strongest of Rock-type attacks. When further combined with Magnemite, these three form a beautiful trinity- each weakness being resisted by one member or the other. If Magnemite does not appeal to you, a specially defensive Bronzor of your own is a great addition to any team, especially when used in tandem with Phanpy to provide dual screen support as well as a handy resistance to Ice- and Grass-type attacks. Generally, anything with a reasonable amount of Special Defense and HP is a good teammate for Phanpy, examples being Munchlax and Lileep under a sandstorm.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Phanpy has little else going for it in terms of other usable moves. Rock Slide may be used on the Tank and Choice Band sets to avoid taking recoil damage that Head Smash provides, but the low Base Power is a turn-off. Knock Off may be used on the Lead set, but in the fast paced metagame of Little Cup, you're much better off attacking. Phanpy can also run a Choice Scarf set as it reaches 14 unboosted Speed, which is raised to 21 with a Choice Scarf, allowing you to outspeed everything without a boost; however, even though Phanpy does get Head Smash, it has a hard time differentiating from Sandshrew, who can run a similar set but with a greater Attack stat. Apart from that, Phanpy has no real options other than the ones already mentioned.</p>

    [EVs]

    <p>The Lead set EVs are specifically designed to survive a LeadDour's Overheat most of the time as well as outspeed Omanyte who don't invest in Speed, and tie with ones that do. On the Choice Band set Attack and HP should be maxed out, since Speed is not a priority. On the Endeavor set, the maximum 196 Speed EVs are required to reach the magic 14 Speed mark, allowing it to outspeed all Pokémon without a Choice Scarf after a Salac boost. Since all of Phanpy's base stats end in a zero, it can get 3 points in two stats and 2 points in another, which makes EVing Phanpy for optimal efficiency easier.</p>

    [Opinion]

    <p>Phanpy is one of those Pokémon that have a hard time carving out its own niche in a competitive metagame, especially in the fast-paced Little Cup, where one may opt to use Pokémon like Gligar or Bronzor for defensive purposes. Phanpy also has a hard time setting itself apart from Swinub, who gets Superpower as well as STAB Ice Shard. Hippopotas also fulfills the role of a Tank equally well, if not better, while providing team support with Sand Stream. However, Phanpy has a few options that set it apart, namely Head Smash, Counter, Endeavor and a higher HP stat, although most of its other stats are worse than Bronzor and Gligar, and it doesn't get STAB on Ice Shard like Swinub does. So while using Phanpy, make sure to use some of its unique options, such as Endeavor or Counter, otherwise you may be running an inferior Gligar or Hippopotas. Being a Cranidos counter is also a nice niche for Phanpy, as very few Pokemon can be said to occupy that position.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>For the Lead set, Ghost-types such as Gastly and Drifloon can put it to sleep, although they must watch out for Head Smash. They also have the choice of blasting Phanpy with strong STAB Shadow Balls. Bronzor also takes no considerable damage from Phanpy and proceeds to set up Stealth Rock and start attacking with Flash Cannon or Psychic.</p>

    <p>For the Choiced sets, Bronzor almost completely walls Phanpy, as even a Choice Band boosted Superpower does less than 50% to it. In return, Bronzor can just either stall Phanpy out or attack it with Flash Cannon or Hidden Power Ice. Paras can switch in on anything but Head Smash and then threaten to Spore it or punish it with Seed Bomb. Mantyke is especially good, as it resists Superpower, is immune to Earthquake and takes little damage from Ice Shard. Almost any bulky Water can come in on Phanpy and scare it off, although Mantyke must beware of switching into a Head Smash.</p>

    <p>The Endeavor set is easily revenge-killed, although one should watch out for sandstorm damage. The best way to deal with the Endeavor set is to just leave the Pokémon in, as you KO Phanpy before the turn ends. It’s a bit hard to counter the Endeavor set, as one Pokémon at least gets severely damaged, barring Ghost-types, who are again the best switch-in to Phanpy. Snover can also completely ruin Phanpy's strategy by inducing Hail, which will finish off Phanpy when the turn ends.</p>
  2. franky

    franky
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    [SET]
    name: Leading Tank
    move 1: Protect / Counter
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Ice Shard
    item: Oran Berry
    nature: Impish / Adamant
    evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Phanpy has great defensive stats and access to Stealth Rock, which make it formidable lead. Phanpy's bulk allows it to take a hit from common leads such as Meowth, Aipom, and Diglett and 2HKO back with the combination of Earthquake and Ice Shard. Phanpy usually ends up on top against Voltorb, who has a 2% chance of 2HKOing Phanpy with Hidden Power Ice, even with max Special Attack, and a slight chance of OHKOing with Explosion. Protect helps against exploders and leads who use Choice Scarf, allowing you to scout and then switch to the appropriate counter.</p>

    <p>This set can be sent in
    later to set up Stealth Rock and start attacking off a decent Attack stat of 14 or 15, depending on your choice of nature. If Phanpy is used as a tank, Counter can be used to get a few surprise KOs due to Phanpy's high HP stat. However, be sure that Phanpy will OHKO with the Counter, as Counter revolves around the element of surprise.</p>

    <p>One reason to use this Phanpy over Gligar or Bronzor, is that Phanpy is a sure-shot counter to Choice Scarf Cranidos. It resists Stone Edge, Ice Beam never 2HKOes through Oran Berry, and Earthquake has less than 0.5% chance of 3HKOing. In return, Phanpy can OHKO back with Earthquake, and the rare Rock Polish variants are finished off Ice Shard. This secures Phanpy's place as a solid Cranidos counter, something neither Gligar nor Bronzor can claim to be.</p>

    I'll continue later - gotta go do something
  3. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    That team options section needs to be expanded (I think 3 paragraphs is probably ideal for Little Cup Pokemon).

    1. General support for Phanpy (here contains stuff like Weather, Screens, Stealth Rock, and Rapid Spin)

    2. What Pokemon help Phanpy offensively and why?

    3. What Pokemon help Phanpy defensively and why?
  4. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    @ franky: What youve edited in is basically the same as what Ive written, but in a different style, so I'll wait for a few more comments on that before changing it. Thanks for looking it over though

    @ HYU: Thanks, that was exactly what I needed. I was having some problems in grasping what to put in the team options section.

    I will edit the team options section sometime soon
  5. franky

    franky
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    Some terms dont fit in the words like utilize and some are incomplete sentences. Of course its my fault cause' i forgot to add comments to why i removed it
  6. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Edited the Team Options para of individual sets

    I still need suggestions for that part though :/
  7. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Looks good. I made a couple of nitpicks, and there are some suggestions for laying out the Team Options section.
  8. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Thanks a lot for your team options help bmb
    Getting cracking down straight away
  9. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
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    Head Smash would be a nice addition to the Choice Band and maybe Choice Scarf sets. Could you try working it in somewhere?
  10. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    I propose a couple changes to the lead set in particular:

    Change EVs to 116 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe.

    EDIT: Fixed EVs.

    This allows Phanpy do a couple things. Firstly, it almost never loses to Overheat Houndour, and never loses to Fire Blast Houndour. Second, it will outspeed or tie Omanyte at the very worst(if Omanyte invests). Also, it still always beats Meowth without Protect.

    Second, I think Protect and counter are a huge waste of a move slot. In that slot I'd put Head Smash / Seed Bomb. Head Smash has amazing coverage with Earthquake and Ice Shard and hits hard. Seed Bomb always OHKOes Omastar and still dents Missy and the like. The main reason these are useless are that Meowth actually can't beat Phanpy with Fake Out + Return even without Protect. Also, add Head Smash to all sets...
  11. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Mhm Im agreeing with HS > Protect / COunter. Its just that I just got back from a week holidays so I never got a chance to edit them in

    Will edit in HSmash over Protect on Lead and other shit, while mentioning Seed Bomb on the lead set as it only really helps againt one lead
  12. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Updated with Head Smash everywhere
    Changed SC to match etc etc

    Come on guys, this is an important analysis, IT MUST GO ON SITE :O
  13. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Phanpy vs Sandshrew IRC (open)
    <~SevenDeadlySins> i actually used scarf sandshrew for a while
    <~SevenDeadlySins> it's not bad
    <%Heysup> lol
    <%Heysup> why not phanpy
    <%Heysup> anyway I'm going to sleep
    <%Heysup> tired from typing up a 2800 lab report today :(
    <%Heysup> 2800 word*
    <~SevenDeadlySins> uh
    <~SevenDeadlySins> 75 attack and 85 def
    * Heysup is now known as Heysup_Sleep
    <~SevenDeadlySins> versus 60 attack and 60 def
    <%Heysup_Sleep> hmm
    <%Heysup_Sleep> that's not bad
    <%Heysup_Sleep> wow
    <~SevenDeadlySins> in fact
    <%Heysup_Sleep> 75 Atk?1
    <~SevenDeadlySins> why not use sandshrew > phanpy as a lead
    <%Heysup_Sleep> that's really good
    <%Heysup_Sleep> Ice Shard
    <~SevenDeadlySins> i suppose
    <~SevenDeadlySins> but rapid spin
    <%Heysup_Sleep> it could be good
    <%Heysup_Sleep> but Ice Shard is really important
    <~SevenDeadlySins> sr / eq / rapid spin / (move)
    <%Heysup_Sleep> it has less special bulk too
    <~SevenDeadlySins> yeah
    <%Heysup_Sleep> (meaning Houndour OHKOes it)
    <~SevenDeadlySins> 50/30 versus 90/40
    <~SevenDeadlySins> yeah that's decent
    <~SevenDeadlySins> BUT
    <~SevenDeadlySins> the attack makes scarf better
    <%Heysup_Sleep> yes
    <%Heysup_Sleep> I agree


    Most of us have completely forgotten about Sandshrew and the fact that it spanks Phanpy in the attack department. This means Sandshrew would always be a better scarf (essentially, any set that doesn't use Ice Shard, Endeavor, Head Smash, or Special Bulk is 100% inferior to Sandshrew). While Phanpy is a viable CScarfer, you're going to have to say "Head Smash is the only advantage Phanpy has over Sandshrew, otherwise Sandshrew completely outclasses Phanpy as a Choice Scarf user due to higher attack and Rapid Spin."

    Phanpy has an attack stat of 15 with the EVs and nature you listed, but at the very least I think they should be changed to allow some customization.

    I think the EVs should just be 116 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe with Adamant / Impish. This way you can use 16 attack, or just 15 if you think it's sufficient. 16 Attack helps phanpy break Missy subs among other things.

    Eitherway, that needs to be changed to either "15" or "16 (with an Adamant nature)"
  14. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    eh i will get rid of the scarf completely then, as HSmash isnt enough to warrant a set, and Shrew gets Edge anyways

    Getting rid of Scarf and mentions
  15. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I am against removing Scarf, it does have competition from Shrew, but Head Smash is major, it's like having a STAB EQ that can hit Missy, Duskull, Gligar, and flying types. Shrew has to use Rock Slide to hit levitaters, half the power of HS, and all it gets for the scarf set is an extra point of attack and differentially distributed defences.
  16. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Well it does have Night Slash and Shadow Claw, but I probably would be against totally removing the Choice Scarf set, even if Sandshrew is better.
  17. diinbong

    diinbong *it's in you to give*
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    I've used Scarf Sandshrew and I'd have to say that Head Smash is pretty huge when you're looking for strong neutral hits against Missy, Gliscor, etc.
  18. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    SE Night Slash and Shadow Claw are still weaker than neutral Head Smash, and lets not forget that Head Smash hits Gligar and Drifloon much harder than any of the options available to Sandshrew. Also, a choice locked unboosted 70 BP Dark/Ghost attack offers near free setup to way more Pokemon than I would be comfortable with. Head Smash has much less issues in the respect, Diglett for example takes a solid 50% - 61.11% damage even with its resistance and min/min Dratini takes 75% - 90%. The recoil and Acc could be annoying, but scarf sets want all the power they can get.
  19. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Well you have to consider the attack difference and utility options Sandshrew has. Sandshrew will hit harder with STAB EQ and SC / NS, because of its far superior attack. Sandshrew also has the option to run Rapid Spin on this set, unlike Phanpy.

    I'm on the fence. If it's essentially 2 and a half versus a half, then adding it in seems to be how the majority feels.
  20. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Would RS actually be useful on a choiced set? And two points in attack is a difference (roughly 11%), but not huge. You can also look at Phan's base defences of 90/60/40 Vs Shrew's 50/85/30. Its not a massive thing, but Phan is taking special hits a lot better.

    Edit: At the very least its OO, and not outclassed by Sandshrew.
  21. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    OK, I will mention that in OO, since anyways Phanpy is a VERY mediocre scarfer, id remove the Band too, except that Banded Head Smash / EQ is ridiculously strong
  22. Articanus

    Articanus

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    Is this one word(outspeed), or two words(out speed)?

    Microsoft word says two, but I could be mistaken.

    <p>As a lead, Phanpy has trouble dealing with Omanyte if it doesn't run Seed Bomb. Mantyke pairs up nicely with Phanpy here as it can take multiple hits from Omanyte thanks to its humongous Special Defense, while threatening to OHKO with Hidden Power Grass or set up an Agility. LeadDour gives (Removed “another opportunity" for fluidity issues)Agility variants to set up, who are especially threatening after an Agility boost. It further complements Phanpy by taking Special hits directed at Phanpy as well as possessing a useful Water Immunity to take on Scarf Wailmer leads. Phanpy is also useless against Bronzor, and so Magnet Rise Magnemite gets mention for being able to take Bronzor out reliably while providing a resistance to Ice attacks.</p>

    Otherwise no issues I could see. Good job. ^^

    Edit: Thanks, Eric.
  23. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    from the grammar standards thread:
  24. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    Ive done all I can on this, I think its done really

    Choice Scarf is left to OO as it is not good enough to warrant its own set, its like making a Specs Missy set where yes it is viable but nobody will use it simply because it is outclassed and tbh there are better ways to use a Misdreavus

    Band and Endeavour remain, Band can do some good damage and due to phanpy's bulk it will often get 2 hits off at one spell unlike others which will switch out from threats. Endeavor + Ice Shard in sand is better than Swinub simply because of bulk.

    Anyone wants to rgammar check go ahead, otherwise mods please look if its finished or not
  25. Fuzznip

    Fuzznip Hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo!
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    I shall proofread this for you my good friend, MGX.

    Add;
    Remove;
    (Comments).

    Good job.
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