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Pidgeot (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Aerrow, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    [​IMG]
    Pidgeot


    Hi, members of C&C. A while back I was browsing through the various Pokemon of the lower tiers of UU and NU and soon I came across the analysis page for one of my favorite Pokemon from the first generation, Pidgeot. The analysis page was simply … ancient; so I posted an application for a revamp of Pidgeot and I got approved, so that's basically it … I guess. Anyways, the information about the several changes I have made to the analysis are listed below along with the status of the Update.

    Changes that have been made:

    • The new format has been implemented; so basically, I’ve removed the Opinion and EVs section, while adding an Overview
    • I’ve added comparisons of Pidgeot with other Pokemon, not only in NU (like in the old analysis), but also Pokemon UU since that’s primarily where Pidgeot will be used (if its going to be used at all in UU)
    • Also, I’ve messed with the sets a little bit by changing the moves and tinkering with the EV’s (a little bit)
    • To be honest, after a little bit of testing, I found the defensive set to be a real let down as defensive variants of Moltres and Articuno outclass it, even with the 4x stealth rock weakness, so I removed it and added it into the other options section; the defensive set is up for debate for whether it should be put back, so please post a couple reason accompanying your opinion
    |Status: Ready for Upload!|
    |QC Approved: [Bluewind][FlareBlitz]|
    |GP Checks: [bugmaniacbob][Fatecrashers]|
    ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■
    [Overview]

    <p>With a useless ability, and a lacking movepool, Pidgeot’s effectiveness in the UU tier looks low, especially when compared to other Normal- and Flying-types like Swellow, and to an extent, Fearow and Dodrio. Pidgeot does, however, have a significantly higher amount of bulk, access to moves like Brave Bird and U-Turn, and a phenomenal base Speed stat in UU all of which are key factors when deciding whether to use Pidgeot or not.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Return
    move 3: U-Turn
    move 4: Pursuit / Quick Attack
    Ability: Tangled Feet
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    <p>With a useful 91 base Speed stat, a decent base Attack stat and access to a couple of respectable physical moves including Brave Bird, U-Turn, and Return, Pidgeot can effectively utilize a Choice Band, serving as both a revenge killer and a scouting Pokemon on a UU team.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Brave Bird and Return are staples on the set as they provide Pidgeot with reliably strong STAB moves, though the former unfortunately, causes recoil damage. U-turn can also be considered somewhat of a staple, as it allows Pidgeot to scout opposing Pokemon who might switch in expecting to start setting up on a resisted attack. Pursuit makes it a decent check to a couple of Ghost- and Psychic-type Pokemon in the tier while Quick Attack can be used to hit faster foes, which is useful since Pidgeot is outpaced by many Pokemon in UU. The EVs are self-explanatory; maximum Attack and Speed are used to amplify Pidgeot’s offensive capabilities, while the rest of the EVs are dumped into Defense to round down the amount of damage from Stealth Rock. The decision between an Adamant or a Jolly nature is dependant on what you want; although an Adamant nature boosts the power of Pidgeot’s attacks, a Jolly nature allows it to outpace Pokemon who have a Speed stat of 90 or less, some notable ones including Heracross, Hitmonlee and Kangaskhan.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>As Pidgeot is a Flying-type, Stealth Rock will prove to be a problem for it, taking a gruesome 25% of its HP every time it switches in, so including a Rapid Spinner such as Donphan or Kabutops on your team will benefit Pidgeot’s longevity in a battle. Also, Dugtrio is often viewed as an excellent offensive partner to Pidgeot as it can trap and KO many of Pidgeot’s common switch-ins, a significant one being Registeel. Pokemon that will benefit from the removal of Venusaur or Milotic also make great partners to Pidgeot as it is able to easily KO any variant of Venusaur with Brave Bird and 2HKO the standard Milotic after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of using a Choice item, Pidgeot’s lacking movepool doesn’t hold many other viable options; you can abuse Pidgeot’s bulk on a defensive set using Roost and Featherdance, but this is highly outclassed by defensive variants of Moltres and Articuno, both of whom possessing better base stat layouts. Similarly, sets utilizing Tailwind, a Life Orb or even Choice Specs can be run but these options are all terribly outclassed in UU. Also, Double Edge can replace Return on any set, but as Brave Bird and Double Edge are illegal together, you will need to adopt Aerial Ace as your Flying-type STAB move; this change is not recommended, because the power gained from having Double Edge instead of Return is outweighed by the power lost from having Aerial Ace over Brave Bird. </p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Pokemon like Registeel and Regirock stop Pidgeot cold due to their resistances to Pidgeot’s STAB attacks and generally massive base defenses. Also a variety of Pokemon can easily set up on Pidgeot; it all depends on what move it’s locked into. If it is locked into Brave Bird or Return, Pokemon like Aggron and the aforementioned Registeel and Regirock can comfortably switch in and start to set up or retaliate while taking a minimal amount of damage from Pidgeot’s attacks. Lastly, any Pokemon with above-average defenses like Uxie can be used as counters due to Pidgeot’s Attack not being very impressive even after the boost gained from a Choice Band.</p>
  2. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    Hm... is mix life orb viable? Pidgeot has nice base speed and decent SpA (at least compared to its Attack, lol); maybe something like U-turn/Brave Bird/Heat Wave/Pursuit (or return) could work.. it really depends based on how much heat wave does to registeel; if it's a 3hko or something then that's acceptable

    Oh and 91 is not unique; it's rotom
  3. M BLADE

    M BLADE

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    I've been playing around with Pdigeot those days, and i wanted to give this bird somthing to differ itself form the other Normal/Flying pokes, since Pidgeot is often outclassed by Dodrio and maybe Fearow (maybe).

    So, i had the idea of using a offensive Pidgoet that capitalizes on bulk (since Pidgeot is the only one with reasonable bulk and power), acting like a "pivot" and it did surprisingly well.

    Pidgeot @ Life Orb/ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP/ 252 atk/ 6 spd
    Nature: Adamant

    -Brave Bird
    -Return
    -U-Turn
    -Roost

    Note that with this spread you outspeed up to Jolly Aggron, so you can include HP Water/Fighting to try and troll it (and Rhyperior).

    I also tested with this spread: 252 HP/ 100 Atk/ 56 Def/ 96 SpD/ 6 Spd, which gives Pidgeot a solid 370 HP and 200 defenses on both sides.



    I recommend for anyone to try it. From my experience, it is the best way to differ Pidgeot from the others.
  4. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    What happened to the defensive set with Featherdance?? Can be used as quite a good physical wall and force switches at the same time with Featherdance/Roost.
  5. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    Thanks for the great suggestions guys; I'll be sure to test out those sets you've posted in the near future. Shrang, about the defensive set, I've tested it and although it is efficient its highly outclassed by defensive variants of Moltres and Articuno in my opinion (as stated in the OP).
  6. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    The problems with a mixed set are that it runs off of Pidgeot's less than stellar base 70 Special Attack, and the only viable Special moves are Air Slash, Heat Wave. Still, I think that it should have some consideration. Anyway, in the Overview, you need to explain why anyone would use Pidgeot over Swellow, who has many advantages over Pidgeot. Pidgeot has better defensive and Special Attack stats that Swellow, and can therefore run more effective mixed attacker and defensive sets. Other than that, good update!
  7. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    Thanks, I'll make those changes. And I'm agreeing with you in terms of the Mix Pidgeot discussion.
  8. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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  9. Aerrow

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    I really don't enjoy triple posting but seriously, this set needs to get checked by QC members.
  10. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    you should PM them to get their attention

    just sayin
  11. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
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    Not much to say here, Pidgeot isn't really perky. Anyways, I had tested the Featherdance wall a while ago (but forgot to post something) and after 5 matches I just couldn't stand using it anymore. Literally everytime i whipped it out I was met by a Rotom, Rhyperior, Steelix, Aggron and so on, making it extremely fodderish and easy to defeat. The set I used was Featherdance/Roost/Brave Bird/Toxic, and it performed better when I was just attacking. tl;dr, I'd keep it in OO.

    Another option Pidgeot has is a set composed of Air Slash/Heat Wave/Roost/HP Ground and holding a LO; but I can see not only it is terribly outclassed, but also rather underwhelming. I'd mention it in OO though. In a similar vein you could mention a Specs set in OO with U-turn over Roost on the aformentioned set, but that's OO at best as well.

    Mention Dugtrio as a partner.

    Anyways, this looks good to me. I have the feeling I'm forgetting something but I have just gone through Pidgeot's movepool 10 times and see nothing outstanding so:

    [​IMG]
  12. Aerrow

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    Thanks, Bluewind; I've implemented the changes you've suggested.
  13. Aerrow

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  14. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Yeah, this is really good. Also just adding to the rudeness of the Featherdance set, Noctowl completely outclasses it with higher defenses and access to reflect too.
  15. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Yeah Choice Band is really the only good thing this can do. Looks fine.

    [​IMG]
  16. Aerrow

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    Okay, I'll get started on the write up immediately.
  17. Aerrow

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    Sorry about the double post but I would like to state that I have completed the write-up for the update so this is now ready for GP checks.
  18. Flora

    Flora Yep, that tasted purple!
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    Some quick nitpicks...

    "With a unique 91 base speed stat (comparable only to Rotom)..."

    Chatot, Lumineon, and Murkrow do too.

    I also recommend shifting the HP EVs to Def or SpD to keep the HP number odd for "rounding down" damage from moves such as Stealth Rock and Leech Seed. Pretty minor, but I think it's helpful anyways.

    Lastly, the format should look like:

    [Set]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Return
    move 3: U-Turn
    move 4: Pursuit / Quick Attack
    ability: Tangled Feet
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Oh, just noticed, why is Adamant first? Doesn't Pidgeot want to abuse its unique Speed stat with Jolly? I'd change it to Jolly / Adamant because outrunning Moltres and Kangaskhan is pretty important.
  19. Aerrow

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    Changes made.
  20. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
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    I'm going to be honest. I don't like the Overview very much, (well the second half). You fail to mention Dodrio as well, and while Pidgeot does have higher bulk than most of the other Normal/Flying birds (save for Noctowl), access to Brave Bird and U-turn aren't unique factors in the slightest (with the exception of Brave Bird over Fearow). So, while access to those moves are crucial, they don't differentiate Pidgeot from the other birds. I'd say something like, "having access to [those moves] is crucial and Pidgeot has a higher bulk to abuse them a little better". Something along that line. I'd also mention that even though Pidgeot has higher bulk than most of the other birds, he still has a phenomonal Speed stat for UU standards.

    It is all up to you in the end, (and to the GPers), I'm just adding some input. It is a good write-up otherwise! :)
  21. Aerrow

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    Thanks; I knew I was missing something in the Overview! Changes have been implemented.
  22. bugmaniacbob

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    GP check on request

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    Pidgeot (Update) (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>With a useless ability, and a lacking movepool, Pidgeot’s effectiveness in the UU tier looks dim low, especially when compared to other Normal- and Flying-types like Swellow and,(comma) to an extent, Fearow and Dodrio who are in control of the skies of said tier. Although this is true, Pidgeot does have a significantly higher amount of bulk, access to moves like Brave Bird and U-Turn,(comma) and a phenomenal base speed Speed stat in UU,(comma) which are key factors when deciding whether to use Pidgeot or not.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Return
    move 3: U-Turn
    move 4: Pursuit / Quick Attack
    ability: Tangled Feet
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    <p>With a useful 91 base speed Speed stat, a decent base attack Attack stat and access to a couple of respectable physical moves including Brave Bird, U-Turn,(comma) and Return, Pidgeot can effectively utilize a Choice Band, serving as both a revenge killer and a scouting Pokemon on a UU team.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Brave Bird and Return are staples on the set as they provide Pidgeot with reliably strong forms of its STABs STAB moves, though the former unfortunately causes , causing recoil damage. U-Turn U-turn can also be considered somewhat of a staple, as it allows Pidgeot to scout opposing Pokemon who might switch in expecting to start setting up on a resisted attack. Pursuit makes it a decent check to common Ghost- and Psychic-type Pokemon in the tier (um, how? I would never switch Pidgeot in on Mismagius or Uxie, that would be suicidal) while Quick Attack can be used to hit faster foes,(comma) which is useful since noting that Pidgeot is outpaced by many Pokemon in UU. The EVs are self explanatory; maximum attack and speed Attack and Speed are used to amplify Pidgeot’s offensive capabilities, while the rest of the EVs are dumped into Defense to round the amount of damage from Stealth Rock down. The decision between an Adamant or a Jolly nature is dependant on what you want; although an Adamant nature boosts the power of Pidgeot’s attacks, a Jolly nature allows it to outpace unscarfed Pokemon who have a speed stat of 90 or less, some notable ones including Heracross, Hitmonlee and Kangaskhan.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>As Pidgeot is a Flying-type, Stealth Rock will prove to be a problem for it, taking a gruesome 25% of its HP every time it switches in, so including a rapid spinner Rapid Spinner such as Donphan or Kabutops on your team will benefit Pidgeot’s longevity in a battle. Also, Dugtrio is often viewed as an excellent offensive partner to Pidgeot as it can trap and KO many of Pidgeot’s common switch-ins, a significant one being Registeel. Any Pokemon that will benefit from the removal of Venusaur or Milotic also make great partners to Pidgeot as it is able to easily KO any variant of Venusaur with Brave Bird and 2HKO the standard Bulky Water Milotic after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of using a Choice item, Pidgeot’s lacking movepool doesn’t hold many other viable options; you can abuse Pidgeot’s bulk on a defensive set using Roost and Feather Dance Featherdance but this is highly outclassed by defensive variants of Moltres and Articuno with better base stat layouts. Similarly, sets utilizing Tailwind, a Life Orb or even Choice Specs can be run but these options are all terribly outclassed in UU. Also, Double Edge can replace Return on any set but as Brave Bird and Double Edge are illegal in conjunction, you will need to adopt for Aerial Ace as your secondary Flying-type STAB move but this change is not recommended due to Aerial Ace’s lower base power Base Power when compared to Return.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Pokemon like Registeel and Regirock stop Pidgeot cold due to their resistances to Pidgeot’s STAB attacks and generally massive base defenses. Also, a variety of Pokemon can easily set up on Pidgeot; it all depends on what move it’s locked into. If it is locked into Brave Bird or Return,(comma) Pokemon like Aggron and the aforementioned Registeel and Regirock can comfortable comfortably switch in and start to set up or retaliate while taking a minimal amount of damage from Pidgeot’s attacks. Lastly, any Pokemon with over-average above average defenses like Uxie and Rhyperior can be used as counters due to Pidgeot’s Attack not being very impressive even after the boost gained from a Choice Band.</p>


    [​IMG]
  23. Aerrow

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    Changes have been implemented. Thanks, bugmaniacbob!
  24. Fatecrashers

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    Haben sie gehort das GP check?

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    [Overview]

    <p>With a useless ability, and a lacking movepool, Pidgeot’s effectiveness in the UU tier looks low, especially when compared to other Normal- and Flying-types like Swellow, and to an extent, Fearow and Dodrio. Although this is true, Pidgeot does, however, have a significantly higher amount of bulk, access to moves like Brave Bird and U-Turn, and a phenomenal base Speed stat in UU, which are all of which are key factors when deciding whether to use Pidgeot or not.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Return
    move 3: U-Turn
    move 4: Pursuit / Quick Attack
    Ability: Tangled Feet
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    <p>With a useful 91 base Speed stat, a decent base Attack stat and access to a couple of respectable physical moves including Brave Bird, U-Turn, and Return, Pidgeot can effectively utilize a Choice Band, serving as both a revenge killer and a scouting Pokemon on a UU team.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Brave Bird and Return are staples on the set as they provide Pidgeot with reliably strong STAB moves, though the former unfortunately causes recoil damage. U-turn can also be considered somewhat of a staple, as it allows Pidgeot to scout opposing Pokemon who might switch in expecting to start setting up on a resisted attack. Pursuit makes it a decent check to a couple of Ghost- and Psychic-type Pokemon in the tier while Quick Attack can be used to hit faster foes, which is useful since Pidgeot is outpaced by many Pokemon in UU. The EVs are self-explanatory; maximum Attack and Speed are used to amplify Pidgeot’s offensive capabilities, while the rest of the EVs are dumped into Defense to round down the amount of damage from Stealth Rock down. The decision between an Adamant or a Jolly nature is dependant on what you want; although an Adamant nature boosts the power of Pidgeot’s attacks, a Jolly nature allows it to outpace Pokemon who have a Speed stat of 90 or less, some notable ones including Heracross, Hitmonlee and Kangaskhan.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>As Pidgeot is a Flying-type, Stealth Rock will prove to be a problem for it, taking a gruesome 25% of its HP every time it switches in, so including a Rapid Spinner such as Donphan or Kabutops on your team will benefit Pidgeot’s longevity in a battle. Also, Dugtrio is often viewed as an excellent offensive partner to Pidgeot as it can trap and KO many of Pidgeot’s common switch-ins, a significant one being Registeel. Pokemon that will benefit from the removal of Venusaur or Milotic also make great partners to Pidgeot as it is able to easily KO any variant of Venusaur with Brave Bird and 2HKO the standard Milotic after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of using a Choice item, Pidgeot’s lacking movepool doesn’t hold many other viable options; you can abuse Pidgeot’s bulk on a defensive set using Roost and Featherdance, but this is highly outclassed by defensive variants of Moltres and Articuno, with both of whom possessing better base stat layouts. Similarly, sets utilizing Tailwind, a Life Orb or even Choice Specs can be run but these options are all terribly outclassed in UU. Also, Double Edge can replace Return on any set, but as Brave Bird and Double Edge are illegal in conjunction together, you will need to adopt Aerial Ace as your Flying-type STAB move; but this change is not recommended due to Aerial Ace’s lower Base Power when compared to Return Brave Bird.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Pokemon like Registeel and Regirock stop Pidgeot cold due to their resistances to Pidgeot’s STAB attacks and generally massive base defenses. Also a variety of Pokemon can easily set up on Pidgeot; it all depends on what move it’s locked into. If it is locked into Brave Bird or Return, Pokemon like Aggron and the aforementioned Registeel and Regirock can comfortably switch in and start to set up or retaliate while taking a minimal amount of damage from Pidgeot’s attacks. Lastly, any Pokemon with above-average defenses like Uxie can be used as counters due to Pidgeot’s Attack not being very impressive even after the boost gained from a Choice Band.</p>


    Yeah this looks good

    [​IMG]
  25. Aerrow

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    Changes have been made, this is ready for upload! BTW, Fatecrashers, about one of your changes (Shown below); I disagree with that as we are comparing Brave Bird and Return with Double Edge and Aerial Ace, not Brave Bird with Aerial Ace.

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