1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pikach-Chooses You!

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Governess, Jan 11, 2013.

?

How useful has Pikachu been to you in NU battles?

  1. Amazing. I love Pikachu, I use it a lot, it gets the job done.

    18.9%
  2. Meh; it's ok... I might use it from time to time.

    31.5%
  3. Never, ever, ever. I dislike Pikachu's stats, nothing personal, but I would never use it

    49.6%
  1. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    I agree it's a glass cannon, and lol, it would be so cool if Eelektross was as fast as Pikachu. I could definitely see it in OU. I used Eelektross, and it walled so many Pokemon @ Coil, it was funny x3
  2. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,674
    Pikachu competes with other top electric Pokemon in the NU metagame in terms of cuteness with Stunfisk and Emolga, but to me, both outclass Pikachu both in cuteness and it viability in the tier.

    But what can you do?
  3. Laga

    Laga We will never hear about the truly perfect crime.
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    964
    The reason why i compared it's attacking stats to some uber pokes is because of the shockingly high attack stat. If it's max attack is higher than the like of rayquaza (which it actually is), then how would it NOT be able to do big damage in NU?

    252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 141-166 (48.45 - 57.04%)

    252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 642-756 (120.22 - 141.57%)

    252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 350-412 (96.68 - 113.81%)

    252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 192+ SpD Braviary: 318-374 (78.71 - 92.57%)

    Here are some calcs :) hope this will give you more insight for its power in NU :D
  4. Nyara

    Nyara

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Messages:
    287
    Electrode's Electro Ball against a paralyzed Pokémon is actually stronger than Pikachu's Light Ball Thunderbolt, still, Pikachu is a pretty decent Pokémon that can actually punch some hard attacks, but you need a plan against scarfers and priority, anyway, Pikachu can't take hits.
  5. DragonBorn

    DragonBorn

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    Thats some pretty impresive damage Lagalag4 but what can it do against special walls?

    252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Lickilicky: 142-168 (33.49 - 39.62%) -- 20.51% chance to 3HKO

    It cant really touch the support set which can hit it, wish, protect and repeat till its dead or even toxic stall it out. With modest nature you almost garunteed a 3hko.

    252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 117-138 (35.02 - 41.31%) -- 76.83% chance to 3HKO

    Flareon can easly do the same thing baring any crits. Its still a good hard hitting poke though but its not going to be easy for it to break specail walls. Although the Nasty Plot Set probably wont have to much trouble if it gets a Boost

    It could also be real deadly in the Rain thanks to a perfect Thunder

    252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunder vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Lickilicky: 178-211 (41.98 - 49.76%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    It isnt to much better how ever as it can still be Protect, wish stalled out of rain turns and PP

    I think a physical set would be better

    Pikachu@Light Ball
    Trait:Static/Lighting Road
    Nature:Adamant
    Ev:252 atk/252 spe/4 spA
    -Brick Break
    -Thunder Punch/Volt Tackle/Wild Charge
    -Fake Out
    -Volt Switch

    He can do massive damage to pokemon with this set. And the Electric stab is up to preference. Thunder Punch Offers no recoil but alot lower BP. Volt tackle is his strongest move but with 1/3 recoil is very unappealing. And Wild Charge is a weaker alternative but with less recoil as well which is what i usually opt for.

    252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Lickilicky: 232-274 (54.71 - 64.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Lickilicky: 194-230 (45.75 - 54.24%) -- 4.69% chance to 2HKO(Garunteed with Fake Out)
    252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 312-368 (58.42 - 68.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 416-492 (77.9 - 92.13%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 260-308 (48.68 - 57.67%) -- 47.66% chance to 2HKO(Garunteed with Fake Out or SR)

    You can also opt for Hp Ice to hit tangela
    252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 416-492 (77.9 - 92.13%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    which wtih 4 evs and a negative nature isnt bad but you could also opt for other natures Like Naughty for extra Hp Ice and Volt Switch damage he probably will die to any attack with the extra defense so might as well take it away as a naughty nature hp ice vs tangela is
    4 SpA Light Ball Pikachu (Move 1) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 158-186 (47.44 - 55.85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  6. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Those are some good defensive numbers. Even with those attacks with the power beating Rayquaza, I'd still get very disappointing results from it. Use a powered priority move/scarfed user against Pikachu, and it get's KO'd very easily. And the Physically offensive set looks good, but what about ESpeed? Doesn't that move belong somewhere? .3.
  7. Laga

    Laga We will never hear about the truly perfect crime.
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    964
    You are one clever person :D i agree, some specially defenders can block it very well, but one must keep this in mind. You have 5 more pokemon slots :) if you run a sawk and pikachu on the same team, lickylicky is basically dead already at team preview.

    Though there is one thing i ponder about with your set. It's very good, but don't you think E-speed would be a good idea? the +2 priority can get you some nice revenge kills :D
  8. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    Guys, calcs mean almost nothing when speaking of a Pokemon that 2HKO's some Pokemon in the metagame but can't take a hit. All of the defensive Pokemon mentioned that are 2HKO'd or 3HKO'd can hit back really hard, potentially OHKO'ing Pikachu.
  9. Aasgier

    Aasgier

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    491
    Pikachu can Volt Switch out of all of them, though.
  10. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Even so, a priority attack, from Gurdurr from example, could potentially, or plainly KO Pikachu. If Pikachu's defenses were higher, it would be more viable to taking hits.
  11. Wobble

    Wobble

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    73


    And more importantly those things can carry Life Orbs which Pikachu cannot which makes them stronger than Pikachu. Pikachu also has rather mediocre speed while Genesect can use a Scarf and hit with STAB U-Turn.




    Pikachu can not really effectively use Volt Switch with a Light Ball as it lacks both the power of say Choice Specs Raichu as well as lacking the speed of a Scarfer like Rotom-S.

    Volt Switch is a scouting move that generally works when you can outspeed and threaten other frail offensive mons or other scarfers and threaten them with a KO. Pikachu's only above average speed meas it's not going to threaten to outspeed a lot without a Scarf and it lacks the pure power to OHKO bulky offensive pokemon...only doing between 50-70 to some of the tier's bulkiest threats such as Ludicolo, Gardevoir and Kangaskhan.

    And Pikachu's defenses are so laughable that even a Fake Out will nearly KO it, let alone any of those trios primary stab moves.
  12. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    I agree with Wobble. Though Pikachu's stats @ Life Orb are very high, it's defenses and average speed let it down. Unfortunately, no other set will work with it :< Poor little guy. :<
  13. DragonBorn

    DragonBorn

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    JeriachiCelebiMew@ i did state that in licklicklys that it can kill it faster than pikachu can kill it. But isn't pikachu the definition of a high risk high reward pokemon it can hit hard but when something hits it its dead.

    everyone else so we all agree it can hit decently but cant take a hit

    and ludicolo
    252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 252-297 (69.23 - 81.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    meaning if its switching in its not going to live or if it takes any prior damage and you use volt tackel instead it wont live.
  14. Laga

    Laga We will never hear about the truly perfect crime.
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    964
    well basically my point is, pikachu is still a potent threat if you play it right. If pikachu had base 100 speed, it would be a huge threat in my opinion.
  15. DragonBorn

    DragonBorn

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    yes it would lagalag yes it would
  16. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    But we're not theorymon'ing here, we're talking about reality. Priority is quite common in NU, and I don't think any experienced player / person in their right mind would switch Ludi into Pikachu, unless it's a specially defensive Ludicolo. Although I must say that I always liked the thought of sweeping with Pikachu, it's very hard to achieve.

    This set that FLCL posted is the best way for Pikachu to get a sweep. Behind a Substitute, this little furball is pretty damn scary. It can also work well as a Masquerain's QD receiver, but then again any Pokemon become fearful at +1, and there's arguably better receivers than Pikachu, such as Seismitoad, who has much more bulk and has great synergy with Masq.
  17. Ashley11

    Ashley11

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    337
    Pikachu is a glass cannon, like everyone else has said, but thats even an understatement. Priority and scarf users shuts it down completely, and so as strong bulky special walls like lickylicky and musharna even. Its just not that likely at all for it to do much damage to any decent team. It can only use a light ball as an item, which limits its flexibility for different sets. Heres some calcs to show how frail pikachu is.


    252+ Atk Gurdurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pikachu: 151-178 (71.56 - 84.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pikachu: 277-327 (131.27 - 154.97%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    0 Atk Lickilicky Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pikachu: 195-229 (92.41 - 108.53%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

    252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Lickilicky: 142-168 (33.49 - 39.62%) -- 20.51% chance to 3HKO

    Yeah, lickylicky can even 1-hit ko this thing with body slam. '_'
  18. DragonBorn

    DragonBorn

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    Yes it can and I had the Tbolt vs lickylicky in one of my other post.

    And since gurrdurrs Mach punch does not Ohko at least that's one extra hit if pika bus not switching in.

    It would be even worse if he was baton passed a tail glow and sub =D even
    though lickylicky can still survive from one +3 tbolt lol

    +3 252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Lickilicky: 387-456 (91.27 - 107.54%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
  19. Ashley11

    Ashley11

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    337
    yeah lickylicky completely walls pikachu, as it does to many things. 0.0 Gurdurr can also drain punch pikachu after surviving one t-bolt to 1-hit KO it, but its not really a COUNTER to pikachu. Maybe after spikes it could revenge kill it though. but yeah Pikachu is a glass cannon for sure.
  20. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Right now, we all know Light Ball is the only viable option for Pikachu at this point, and Thunderbolt/Volt Tackle are its attacking STAB moves, but how would it do in rain with Thunder? Would it make that much of a difference, having a more powerful move with 100% accuracy? Just a thought out there.
  21. Ashley11

    Ashley11

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    337
    well, its a nice idea actually. After thinking about it, it MIGHT work.

    if the rain goes down or if u dont have rain u are kind of stuck with a 70 accuracy move. Sure i like the idea though. How about this set?

    Pikachu@Light Ball
    Lightningrod
    252 spA 252 speed 4 hp
    timid nature
    thunder
    substitute
    hp ice
    grass knot

    Its the same thing as FLCL's set besides the change of thunderbolt to thunder XD

    Calcs:
    252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunder vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Lickilicky: 178-211 (41.98 - 49.76%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Lickilicky: 142-168 (33.49 - 39.62%) -- 20.51% chance to 3HKO

    Pretty big difference in power, and after stealth rocks im pretty sure its a guranteed 2-hit KO. It could beeat a lickylicky 0.0
  22. Aasgier

    Aasgier

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    491
    Don't forget to factor in Leftovers recovery for Lickilicky.

    But yeah, something like Kadabra really enjoys special walls being weakened by Pikachu so it can sweep. However, all those NU special walls are hit hard by Brick Break, making relying on Thunder a bit dubious to me.
  23. DragonBorn

    DragonBorn

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    Licky can also wishtect stall out of rain turns and pp before it can even get it within killing range

    I was also thinking a full out mix set could work

    Pikachu@LightBall
    Trait:Lightning Rod
    Nature:Naive/Naughty/Rash
    Ev:124 atk/124 SpAtk/252 Spe(Naughty:135 atk/114 Spatk/Rash:114 atk/136 spAtk)
    -BrickBreak
    -Thunderbolt
    -HP-Ice
    -Extreme Speed

    with this and either rash or naughty he gets the equivalent of 360 atk and spatk with light-ball. Thunderbolt and Hp-Ice or for boltpiloswinbeam coverage while Brick Break and extreme speed serve as a way to hit/normal types and as a priority move, respectively
  24. Aasgier

    Aasgier

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    491
    That doesn't truly work if Pikachu has Nasty Plot and Substitute, which Pikachu can set up during Lickilicky's Protect turns.
  25. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    A Mixed set isn't viable because with max investment in an attacking stat, Pikachu won't be hitting very hard.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)