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Pineco (LC analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by comatthew6, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    Pineco!!!

    [​IMG]

    Pineco (Little Cup analysis)

    * I shortened the overview, EV's, Set comments, and additional comments (the latter two for the first set). I've also replaced the Specially defensive set with the Spiker set, although I might need to add some details.

    Status: 2/2 stamps collected. [kd24] [Heysup]
    C&C status: 2/2 GP stamps collected [bugmaniacbob] [flora]


    [Overview]
    <p>Although it faces stiff competition from the likes of Sandshrew, Omanyte, and Anorith for a team slot, Pineco has a few unique qualities that set it apart from them. With good defenses and access to Rapid Spin, Pineco can usually find time to spin away harmful entry hazards that your team may hate. Additionally, Pineco can easily assist your team with all three entry hazards in hand. Pineco also has resistances to Fighting and Ground, as well as access to Explosion, which allows it to go out with a bang after it has done its job. Although Pineco might seem outclassed at first glance, it has its niche in the LC metagame.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin Support
    move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Bug Bite
    move 4: Payback / Protect
    item: Oran Berry
    nature: Impish
    evs: 196 HP / 76 Atk / 196 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The main function of this set is to support the team using Pineco's entry hazards while acting as a physical tank in combination with Pineco's high Defense stat. Generally the most successful strategy is to switch Pineco into a resisted attack, such as a Choice-locked Earthquake, and spin away the opponent's entry hazards or set up its own. The moves on this set are quite simple. Spikes is the primary choice for entry hazards, because fewer Pokemon have access to it, but Stealth Rock can also be used if it benefits your team more. Rapid Spin is a valuable weapon in Pineco's arsenal, allowing your Pokemon that are weak to Stealth Rock, such as Mantyke and Houndour, to switch in without losing one-quarter (or more) of their health. Bug Bite eats Oran Berries commonly seen on defensive Pokémon, such as Munchlax and Bronzor, which allows Pineco to restore its HP and continue its job. The last moveslot is a matter of personal preference. Payback is the recommended attack in order to prevent Gastly and other Ghost-types from endlessly walling Pineco. Protect can be used to scout your opponent's attacks—namely Trick and Choiced attacks—and potentially rack up another turn of sandstorm or hail damage. Oran Berry is the recommended item for this moveset to increase Pineco's longevity. The EVs, in conjunction with an Impish nature, maximize Pineco's physical bulk, with the rest thrown into Attack for an extra bite behind Pineco's attacks.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Pineco does not need to invest much in its Attack stat simply because its goal isn't to deal direct damage to the other team. Instead, it attempts to passively weaken the opponent with residual damage from Spikes, Stealth Rock, or sandstorm/hail damage in conjunction with Protect. Toxic Spikes can be used with Protect on this set, which allows it to stall and rack up residual poison damage. This puts an effective timer on sweepers that use set-up moves, such as Totodile and Chinchou.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for this set include Pokemon that have high Speed and enjoy having entry hazards weakening the opponent. For example, Choice Scarf sweepers such as Machop, Mankey, and Wailmer all enjoy having weakened opponents. Also, set-up Pokémon, such as Totodile and Chinchou, enjoy having entry hazards on the opponent's side of the field to turn 3HKOs into 2HKOs and 2HKOs into OHKOs.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spiker
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Bug Bite
    move 4: Explosion
    item: Oran Berry
    nature: Impish
    evs: 196 HP / 76 Atk / 196 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set's purpose is solely to set up Stealth Rock and multiple layers of Spikes, then fire off a life-threatening Explosion. This moveset utilizes two forms of entry hazards, Stealth Rock and Spikes, in order to rack up as much passive damage as possible on the enemy team. Bug Bite can net Pineco extra healing outside of its own Oran Berry, as well as stripping its opponents of theirs. This moveset can be considered to be Pineco's trademark, since Pineco is the only Pokemon in the Little Cup metagame with access to Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Explosion together. Oran Berry is essential to increase Pineco's staying power, so it can set up as many entry hazards as possible. The EVs, in conjunction with an Impish nature, maximize Pineco's physical bulk, while the extra point in Attack increases the power of Pineco's Explosion.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Good teammates for this set are Pokemon that enjoy having weakened opponents, due to entry hazards turning 3HKOs into 2HKOs and 2HKOs into OHKOs. A good example of this would be Carvanha. Carvanha can sponge a Fire-type attack aimed at Pineco, and with its deadly attacking capabilities, inflict a lot of damage to a weakened team. In addition, with three layers of Spikes, a Naughty Carvanha has a 33% chance to OHKO standard Munchlax with Crunch, with that number increased to 83% with Stealth Rock also in play. Also, pseudo-hazers make great partners to this set; unfortunately, Pokemon with Roar and Whirlwind are uncommon in Little Cup.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>The best teammates Pineco can have are ones that can benefit from its support. Again, a great example of this would be Houndour, which can easily switch into Fire-type attacks aimed at Pineco, net itself a Flash Fire boost, and begin to sweep. Agility Chinchou can also come in on Fire-type attacks and then set up, while Pineco can sponge Ground- or Grass-type attacks directed towards Chinchou, and set up Spikes. Munchlax can take special attacks aimed at Pineco, while Pineco can take the physical attacks aimed at Munchlax, such as Choice Scarf Mankey's Close Combat.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>There aren't many options outside of the ones above for this little bagworm. Pain Split may look appealing, but it sees no main use outside of possibly beating Munchlax. Earthquake is a decent option, but Pineco is now a sitting duck in the face of Gastly. Toxic Spikes can be used over Spikes, but with many grounded Poison-types common in the Little Cup metagame, such as Croagunk and Stunky, it isn't as effective as Spikes. Gravity is viable in lieu of Rapid Spin, enabling Pineco to hit Gastly with Earthquake, in addition to having Spikes hit more Pokemon. Explosion can also be used in the last slot on the first set in order to possibly remove a potential threat after Pineco has finished its job.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Due to the fact that Pineco is a supporter, it technically doesn't have counters. Houndour can switch into Pineco, only fearing an uncommon Earthquake, and dispatch it with a super effective Fire-type attack. Gastly and other Ghost-types can block Pineco's Rapid Spin. Pineco also struggles against Aron, which easily forces Pineco out with its 150 Base Power Head Smash attack. Aron can also can set up a Rock Polish on the switch and wreak havoc on an unprepared team. Pokemon with Taunt can also prove troublesome for Pineco, as they can take away Pineco's ability to set up entry hazards, which is Pineco's main function.</p>
  2. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Please post in Quality Control first.
  3. Banryu

    Banryu

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    My comments in green
    stuff to remove in red
    stuff I changed in blue

    And that's where I stopped correcting.

    Overall, I think you need to condense and make a lot of this more concise... I had a really hard time getting through it because of the sheer volume of words, a lot of which is just fluff that can be removed. :0 Try making it a bit more straightforward and to the point.

    Now, as for the sets....
    It seems to me like Rapid Spin and Payback should always be used together so that you can stop any annoying, spinblocking Ghosts. :0 If you run EQ instead of PB in that last slot, nothing's gonna stop Sub-Gastly or Drifloon from coming in to set up on you, since they're immune to EQ and Spin and resist Bug Bite.

    I think the best set for either of these would be this:
    - SR / Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Payback
    - Bug Bite / EQ
    Maybe you can add a second set that utilizes Protect and TSpikes for stalling, but using Protect with SR or Spikes doesn't really do much to rack up passive damage, since those only work when you get a switch-in. :\ Seems kind of counter-productive.
  4. Zari

    Zari Xenobladeaholic
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    First off, I'm new to QC, so I hope I'm not fatally breaking any rule(s) by posting here.

    The bolded portions are impossible; Pineco's attack is base 65, which iirc needs 76 EVs to gain an extra point, so the 36 EVs would go to waste. I understand that the SpD investment in the first set is for survivability, but I want to suggest changing it to 116 HP / 196 Def / 156 SpD. The reason for this is because the extra point of HP allows it to become one of the best checks out there to SD totodile-- it will always survive a +2 Jolly LO Waterfall at full health, provided Pineco runs 116 HP EVs and not 36.

    nitpick:

    If Gastly carries LO it has a very high chance of 2hkoing through oran (1 HP point above minimum both times, or the equivalent gets a KO on max/max careful pineco; sludge bomb is almost a guaranteed 2hko through oran)



    The nitpick above ties into my thoughts on the second set. The problem I have with the specially defensive set is that even with all those HP/SpD EVs, Pineco is still taking well over 50% from most neutral special attackers, and the fact that it gets OHKO'd by STAB fire attacks hasn't changed either(iirc LO mixDour still OHKO's you through occa berry with overheat).

    a few damage calcs to prove my point(vs. 196 / 236 careful pineco):

    I know there's more, but I think that's enough to show that even with the heavy investment in HP/SpD you are getting 2HKO'd by the majority of specially based LC sweepers; moreover, with Pineco's base 15 speed and no attack investment at all, you are unable to do anything to the majority of said special attackers if you carry only Bug Bite or Earthquake(you OHKO Houndour with EQ, but you lose if it switches in on something else; Mantyke resists Bug Bite, and is immune to EQ). I think that while the idea is good in principle, Pineco's Base 35 SpD is lacking enough to where the second set would be outclassed by the first one almost entirely.
  5. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I tend to agree with the above poster, the SpD set is very underwhelming. There are way too little Pokemon that don't OHKO you even with max investment.

    Another issue I have is that you don't have both Spikes and Stealth Rock on the same moveset. I think this is essential for Pineco not to be outclassed by faster, bulkier, and harder-hitting Pokemon such as Sandshrew and Anorith. You also don't use Explosion.

    I think the moveset should be: Rapid Spin / Payback / Spikes / Stealth Rock with no slashes.

    The EVs are also messed up a bit, I'd rather max HP and max defense to survive and set up multiple layers of Spikes. Special Attackers will beat you anyway.

    I think the main set should be:

    [SET]
    name: Spiker
    move1: Spikes
    move2: Stealth Rock
    move3: Bug Bite
    move4: Explosion
    item: Oran Berry
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Impish
    evs: 196 HP / 76 Atk / 196 Def

    And this spread should be used for the other sets as well.

    In short:

    - Remove Specially Defensive set
    - Add "Spiker" set
    - Change EV spread and moveset for "Rapid Spin Support" set
  6. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    Alright guys I'll get to it as soon as possible.
  7. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    Alright, guys, I removed the specially defensive set and replaced it with the spiker set. Any comments?
  8. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    bump. what do I have to do to get this on-site?
  9. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    sigh sorry for backlog

    [​IMG]
  10. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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  11. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    can someone else stamp this guy so it gets past QC? Thanks in advance =]
  12. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    I think.
  13. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    Thanks. On it ASAP.
  14. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    I accidentally forgot to change the nature on the Spiker set when I changed it from the Spec. Defensive set, so I took care of that now, as well.

    Any other grammar mistakes?
  15. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    You make it sound like omanyte has access to rapid spin (in the intro).

    Umm, can't find anything else, and the sets look good.
  16. Aerrow

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    Additions in Bold Blue
    Removals in Bold Red

  17. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    changes have been made. Thanks guys!
  18. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    just so you know, you dont need to have a seperate section for EVs anymore in accordance with the new (though I suppose that they arent so new anymore) analysis format guidelines.
  19. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    EV's section removed
  20. iDunno

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    EDIT: Due to the fact that this set is unfinished, as pointed out by Great Sage, I am retracting my previous GP Check. Feel free to PM me when the analysis is ready. I'm going to keep the basic Grammar notes up, however, should you choose to keep the basic skeleton of the analysis. As the set comments and additional comments sections are the only areas lacking, the rest of the Grammar Prose check is still legitimate.

  21. Great Sage

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    This analysis is not going onsite unless the set comments, particularly those for the second set, are substantially expanded.
  22. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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  23. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    revised and expanded.
  24. macle

    macle frog jesus died for your sins
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    Just a few things I saw.

    - sometimes you left a space in between <p> tags and the first / last word. It's supposed to be right next to it.

    - this set is suppose to be posted like this

    name:
    move 1:
    move 2:
    move 3:
    move 4:
    item:
    nature:
    evs:


    you have it like half right but that should be fixed.

    - You need to put spaces in the evs like 196 HP / blah Atk /

    - Don't mention the previous set in the second set. Make each set independent from the other sets.

    - You should include what Pokemon work well with Spikes on the field in team options

    - For counters, I would probably add Pokemon with Taunt since it can stop you from setting up hazards which is the main reason to use Pineco.
  25. comatthew6

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