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Pinocchio

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Trainer Au, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
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    Hey! this is my first RMT so I apologize in advance :P. Anyways this is a rain team that I made wanting to use less than standard things (became pretty standard but whatever). I called it Pinocchio because the team is built around Sub+CM Jirachi and Pinocchio wished upon a star and Jirachi is the wish granter pokemon, clever I know. Anyways, on to the team!
    Team Building Process


    Show Hide
    I wanted to use Sub+CM Jirachi, so I started with that.
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    Sub+CMRachi works great in Rain because of Fire being weakened and it grants Thunder perfect accuracy, Water Pulse's power is boosted as well, so I paired it with Politoed.
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    At this point, I needed a defensive core to stop some of the top-tier threats from going on a rampage on my team, Amoongus and Bronzong fit the bill nicely.
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    Now I needed a Scarfer for revenge killing/late game sweeping, Keldeo is crazy strong in the rain, so I decided to use it.
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    Lastly I wanted some Physical Presence to my team, Toxicroak was an underused threat I wanted to try, and it's Sucker Punch can kill the Lati Twins, which I kinda struggle with.
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    (Sorry for the sloppy Team Building Process :S)

    In Depth

    The nicknames are Pinocchio related btw :]]


    [​IMG]
    J. Cricket (Politoed) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    244 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    -Scald
    -Protect
    -Perish Song
    -Toxic

    This Poli set used to be RestoChesto, just something I wanted to try but I changed it to Physically Defensive to try and take Scizor's U-Turn's better. Protect>Something else (Ice beam, Encore, etc.) because scouting and lefties recovery. 8 Spe EVs to outspeed other Politoeds that have 4 Spe or none.

    Nickname stands for Jiminy Cricket from Pinocchio, crickets hop, frogs hop, I'm a genius.

    [​IMG]
    Real Boy (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Substitue
    -Calm Mind
    -Psyshock/Water Pulse
    -Thunder

    I love this thing. I like the faster set as opposed to the bulky set. Amoonguss and Celebi kinda wall me but they can't do anything back save for Celebi's Earth Power. Psyshock>Water Pulse to hit the Blobs and Gastro, I like WP sometimes though so I can hit T-tar as nothing likes taking BandTar's Dark Stab except Croak.

    Nickname because Pinocchio wished upon a star and he became a real boy. Jirachi is the wish granter pokemon, my level of intelligence is unmatched.

    [​IMG]
    Geppetto (Bronzong) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
    Sassy Nature (+SpDef, -Spe)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Hidden Power [Ice]
    -Gyro Ball
    -Earthquake/Protect

    I don't know what to write here, unless you want me to waste your time and explain why I chose the moves I did, although I have to with the last slot. Earthquake and Gyro Ball seems redundant imo, so I run protect sometimes for more recovery.

    Geppetto, Pinocchio's dad, is old, so is Bronzong.

    [​IMG]
    Pinocchio (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Regenerator
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    -Spore
    -Giga Drain
    -Clear Smog
    -Hidden Power [Ice]

    Once again, I don't know what to write here. I have considered Celebi>Amoonguss to help against Starmie, but then I am pretty Dark weak save for Croak and also I would have more problems against Scizor.

    Nicknamed because I had to fit Pinnochio in somewhere lol.

    [​IMG]
    Figaro (Latios) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Draco Meteor
    -Surf
    -Psyshock
    -Trick

    My revenge killer. This used to be a Scarf Keldeo, but someone pointed out that sun teams were a big problem so I changed to Latios. Latios also provides a resistance to Starmie's Dual Stab (though in the rain it hurts).

    Figaro is the cat's name.....no real reasoning behind this one...

    [​IMG]
    Conscience (Toxicroak) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
    -Swords Dance
    -Ice Punch
    -Drain Punch
    -Sucker Punch

    I chose the SD set over the Bulk Up set because I only need one turn to wreck havoc, and my team is kinda slow. Moves are self-explanatory (that's a reoccurring theme). I have Drain Punch over Cross Chop because I don't want to rely on an 80 accuracy move as my main stab.

    Nickname is pretty much the same reason as Poli, Jiminy Cricket was Pinocchio's conscience if you don't remember.


    Conclusion

    Well that's all folks, please help me wittle out every problem that I may have. Starmie and Scizor are giant threats, and Deoxys-D can setup all the hazards he wants to, help with those guys would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully it isn't to bad ;P Rate, Luvdisc, whatever, thanks!! I play on PO btw, Garchomp is banned but Genesect isn't, keep that in mind while you're rating, thanks again!​
  2. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte The Great Stone Dragon
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
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    Hey, I got your request.

    Cool team! SubCM Jirachi is definitely a beast under Rain; it can sweep opposing weatherless / Rain / Sand teams with ease, and is a great addition to any Rain team.

    However, Jirachi, as well as the rest of your team, might have some problems handling Rock Polish Landorus-I. RP Lando is definitely a huge threat; especially versions with psychic (HP Ice versions can be dealth with if Amoonguss has high health) Ground types in general can tear up your team, as many can get past Bronzong with coverage. However, with some simple set changes, I do think those problems can be overcome.

    I think your Bronzong can be fixed. If needed, you could run Psychic over a coverage move, but I don't really think it's that necessary because Amoonguss is just setup bait for Rachi anyway. A spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 242 SpDef Sassy. This is the most efficient spread you can use, giving you the amount of bulk / power you need to kill certain physically attacking threats. It also helps against Tornadus / Landorus, giving you a good answer to both of them. Max SpDe lets you use Bronzong as a spexial wall- letting Jirachi rely only on sweeping.

    Finally, for Amoonguss's spread. Being able to tank special hits is not too necessary for you now because of Bronzong and since you're relying on resistances to wall most of the time, a simpler spread of 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpA Bold will work better. It allows Amoonguss to take full responsibility of all fighting type hits with ease, and let Bronzong and Rachi better work on countering Psychics and other powerful special attackers.

    Good luck!
  3. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

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    Thanks a lot Electrolyte, I will certainly implement all of your suggestions!
  4. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Feb 11, 2012
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    I think the biggest problem here is your EV spreads on defensive mons. As electrolyte mentioned, making bronzong full SpD is a good way to go, and then amoonguss can be physically defensive. I'd also suggest possibly changing bronzong to a chestoresto set--while it may seem gimmicky, bronzong currently has no form of recovery and so is very prone to being worn down throughout the game. This could go in place of any of zong's coverage moves really; I'd suggest HP [ice] personally. Electrolyte's 252 / 252 spread should still work.

    I actually like thunder / water pulse on subCMrachi, you can easily hax amoonguss to death from behind a sub. If you want to try different moves, psyshock / thunder is probably the next best option--thunder gets great neutral coverage and is great with serene grace.

    Interesting toed set, maybe ice beam should fit somewhere in there? >psong I'd probably say--that way, dragons won't be able to set up on you anyway, and it's great coverage.

    Finally, keldeo probably should have HP [ice] instead of icy wind--it's got 15 lower power and 95 accuracy, which could make the difference between a kill and a near survival, while the speed drop won't matter much (since you'll be wanting to kill everything in one hit). The IV drop won't matter much--iirc, you can go 30 Atk / 30Def, which won't impact you at all.

    Other than that, the team looks pretty solid, hope my rate helped!
  5. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

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    You definetly helped! Thanks with toed I'll prob just go fully SpDef, I will definetly try chestoresto zong, sounds cool. My reasoning for icy wind was for spe ties, but I forgot that lowering Atk and Def does the same thing.


    I would like some input on whether to use bulk up croak or SD croak, thoughts, anyone?
  6. Nutrix

    Nutrix

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    I feel that SD Toxicroak would help provide more offensive pressure for the team; definitely that over Bulk Up.
  7. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

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    I agree thanks!
  8. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Agreed with SDcroak > BU, I've been trying out croak recently and SD has really impressed me.

    One consideration is Jolly nature on croak--IDK how much you find yourself needing more speed vs. grateful for the extra power, so something to consider.
  9. Homeslice

    Homeslice

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    First thing I notice: Your team is extremely weak to Magnezone. He traps Jirachi and Bronzong, has SE STAB againt Keldeo and Politoed, and usually carries HP Fire, which will do a large amount of damage to Amoongus as he is a physical wall and badly hurts Toxicroak due to Dry Skin. For that reason, I suggest Gastrodon over Bronzong. It is a Special Wall as well, and gets a boosted Scald in the rain. Also, he can take fire attacks directed at Amoongus.
    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 SpDef
    Calm Nature (+SpDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic
    - Recover
    Scald and Toxic allows you to take care of the other Pokemon as needed. Scald for Physical attackers to halve their attack, Toxic for Special attackers to wear down their health while walling them.
    Problem two: Sun teams. If your Politoed faints, and your opponent gets up sun, It weakens Keldeo's STAB, makes Jirachi, Bronzong, and Amoongus more prone to a STAB Fire attack OHKO-ing, and hurts Toxicroak at the end of every turn. For this, I suggest you replace Keldeo with a Scarf Latios. He easily deals with sun teams, and it removes a water type from your team.
    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Surf
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick
    He should outspeed all other scarfed dragons that do not have Timid or Jolly, and is a solid revenge killer. He can also cripple opposing walls with trick, forcing them into one move. He also has some synergy with Toxicroak, who can somewhat remove steel types that resist his Draco Meteor.
  10. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey there, I got your PM.

    This is a very solid team so I have no so much to tell anyway let's start with the rate!

    First of all, I suggest you to change Water Pulse into Psyshock on Jirachi. Psyshock allows to hit Chansey, Blissey, Gastrodon and it's a better move against stall team which gives you some problem. Then, on Amoonguss I'd use an EV spread of 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpA Bold, replacing your current one. This EV spread allows to tank hits better and to break Keldeo's Substitute also after two Calm Minds and that can be useful. Finally, I'd use Hidden Power Ice, replacing Icy Wind on Keldeo. Hidden Power Ice has more fire power and it can be useful in many chances. Keldeo loses anyway only 1 IV in Atk and 1 IV in Def so it isn't a problem.

    Good luck, hope I helped!
  11. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

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    Hey, I got your request.

    You should really try to go for Max HP for any bulky pokemon, but I honestly suggest you replace Amoongus overall. I think your team needs offensive answers to Rotom-W and Landorus and I believe Latios is the answer. Although it does make your team a bit more vulnerable to Sand teams, amoongus wasn't helping too much in that regard. With hazards support and two fighting pokemon you can always double switch to put pressure on tyranitar and eventually wear it down. Latios helps you tremendously against sun teams as you previously had 3 weaknesses to fire and no way to really deal damage outside of the rain.

    Additionally, making Bronzong specially defensive is the way to go. Like other posters have mentioned its a great answer to Landorus and landorus is going to be switching in on Toxicroak and forcing a lot of 50/50 predictions. Do you stay in and Ice punch predicting the Rock Polish/Substitute, Sucker Punch on the attack, or switch out on the attack? Landorus puts you in a position to where you have to play extremely risky, but with a specially defensive bronzong you don't have to play that way.
  12. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

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    Hey everyone I really appreciate all of your suggestions,


    I will put Latios>Keldeo to help with Sun teams as they were a problem, Bronzong will become fully SpDefensive and I will use the Amoonguss set posted by a few of you. I'm debating whether or not to use Psyshock>Water Pulse but I will probably end up making that change.

    I have noticed that Starmie and Scizor are big threats to my team, nothing likes Scizor's U-turn and Starmie threatens my entire team with Rain boosted Water attacks and Psychic stab, I have considered Celebi>Amoonguss but then Scizor has a field day against me, thoughts anyone?

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