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Pinsir (Attacking Lead)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by bugmaniacbob, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Firstly, this is not a gimmick set to cope with the new Froslass lead generation - I have been testing it since both it and Crobat were in UU, as well as when Yanmega was around, and it is quite solid, but I never got around to writing up the set descriptions. I tested it a few times in the new metagame, and it still seems good to go.

    Stamps:
    [​IMG] (FlareBlitz)[​IMG](Eo Ut Mortus)
    [​IMG] (Snorlaxe)[​IMG](uragg)

    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/pinsir
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    [SET]
    name: Attacking Lead
    move 1: X-Scissor
    move 2: Close Combat / Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge / Quick Attack
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Focus Sash / Lum Berry
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Pinsir can work as an effective anti-lead against many common UU leads by balancing considerable attack power with decent physical bulk and Speed. This set makes great use of one of the only moves not shared by Pinsir and his little brother Heracross: Stealth Rock. Although Stealth Rock is an important tool for almost all teams, in this set it takes a back seat to attempting to KO the opposing lead.</p>

    <p>X-Scissor is another move that Pinsir has that Heracross does not, and although it sacrifices a massive amount of power compared to Heracross's Megahorn, it boasts perfect accuracy, which is especially important at the start of the game. X-Scissor is very useful for Pinsir, allowing him to 2HKO Uxie and Mesprit while also scoring powerful hits on Alakazam, Ambipom, and Electrode. Alakazam and Electrode can then be disposed of with Quick Attack, the third competitive move that Heracross does not have. Unfortunately, Adamant X-Scissor + Quick Attack only has an average shot to 2HKO Ambipom, and Pinsir will also lose to Life Orb Fake Out + Return. Close Combat is another good tool for Pinsir to use, since it can easily OHKO Ambipom. It is also useful to hit Cloyster, Rhyperior, Registeel, and Steelix super effectively. However, it is illegal with Quick Attack, so you should think carefully before using it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Stone Edge is effective against several Pokemon who wall you otherwise, most importantly Moltres. It is also a powerful weapon against Arcanine, usually OHKOing after Flare Blitz recoil, and can 2HKO suicide lead Cloyster. The only real problem with it is its low accuracy. Earthquake provides much of the same coverage as Close Combat, albeit with less power. However, it gives Pinsir a better chance than Close Combat at taking on some lesser-seen leads, such as Qwilfish, Nidoking, and Nidoqueen. Earthquake also has lots of mid-game utility in hitting Rotom, Weezing, and Mismagius. However, it cannot 2HKO bulky Omastar with Leftovers. It is not advisable to use a combination of Close Combat + Earthquake due to overlapping coverage, but any other legal combination of these four moves is usable depending on the threats you wish to prioritize on beating - any combination lacking Quick Attack is beaten by faster offensive leads such as Alakazam, any combination lacking Close Combat loses to dedicated Spiker leads such as bulky Omastar and Cloyster, any combination lacking Stone Edge loses to Moltres and other Flying-types, and any combination lacking Earthquake loses to Qwilfish and other Poison-types. Lastly, although Close Combat is illegal with Quick Attack, Superpower is not, and can allow you to beat Kabutops with greater ease. However, it will leave you as set-up fodder for just about everything else.</p>

    <p>Focus Sash is usually the best item, preventing Pinsir from being OHKOed by the likes of Moltres and Kabutops. Lum Berry can also be useful to avoid Uxie's Thunder Wave and Yawn. For the ability, Mold Breaker is the most useful option, though Hyper Cutter will negate Arcanine's Intimidate. The EVs and nature generate maximum Attack, allowing Pinsir to deal as much damage as possible. The Speed stat is also maximized, allowing him to outrun most lead Arcanine and Kabutops. The 4 leftover EVs go in Defense rather than in HP in order to give Pinsir five switches into Stealth Rock. A Jolly nature can also be an option, as the extra Speed allows Pinsir to outpace Modest Moltres in addition to Timid Venusaur and Mesprit. However, with a Jolly nature, Pinsir loses some of the important 2HKOs listed above.</p>

    <p>In general, an Adamant nature with the primary move combination listed in the set is your best bet at beating the most common leads. However, with a Jolly nature, Pinsir tends to be more useful in the rest of the battle and is more reliable at getting Stealth Rock up. As such, with a Jolly nature you should concentrate on maximizing Pinsir's overall coverage; thus, it is recommended that you use the combination of X-Scissor / Stone Edge / Earthquake, since this combination tends to be more useful against the rest of your opponent's team and because Jolly Pinsir will not be as reliable at taking down your opponent's lead.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock benefits all kinds of teams, but this Pinsir will usually work best on pure or bulky offense teams. You should also note that if Pinsir lacks Close Combat, dedicated Spiker Omastar or Cloyster can set up two layers of Spikes against you, so you should also carry a Rapid Spinner. Rapid Spinners are also helpful to remove Stealth Rock from the field, which will badly hurt Pinsir if you keep him for later. Good partners on offensive teams include Pokemon who benefit from early-game Stealth Rock, such as Blaziken and Venusaur. Neither of these enjoy the Rock-type attacks aimed at Pinsir though, so tread carefully. In an offensive role, Pinsir's greatest joy is in beating down slower Psychic- and Dark-types such as Slowbro and Uxie; thus, he makes a good partner to Fighting-types such as Hitmontop, who in return can Rapid Spin away Stealth Rock for Pinsir. Fast Psychic-types such as Alakazam also make good partners since they are able to strike down Fighting- and Poison-types. Lastly, bulky Water-types such as Milotic can be helpful to deal with Fire- and Rock-type Pokemon, as well as helping to some extent against Swellow and other fast Flying-types who give Pinsir problems.</p>

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------


    Post-critique changes:
    • Grammar check 1, thanks to Xia
    • Updated to new format
    • Removed Honchkrow
    • Removed Froslass
    • Overhaul of moves, EVs, nature, and comments
    • Grammar check 2, thanks to Snorlaxe
    • GP Grammar-Prose Check 1, thanks to Snorlaxe
    • GP Grammar-Prose Check 2, thanks to uragg
  2. Xia

    Xia aka Lone Gansel
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    No proofreads at all?!


    Anti Lead (UU) (open)
    Anti Lead (UU) (open)

    <p>Pinsir can work as an effective anti-lead against the more common leads in UU, balancing considerable attack power with decent physical bulk and speed, and has the added benefit of being able to gain momentum through support moves, in particular one of the only moves not shared by Pinsir and its little brother Heracross: Stealth Rock. Although Stealth Rock is an important tool for almost all teams, with this set it takes a back seat in favor of primarily dealing with other leads.</p>

    <p>X-Scissor is another move that Pinsir has that Heracross does not, and although it sacrifices a massive amount of power compared to Heracross’s Megahorn, it gains in exchange perfect accuracy, which is especially important at the start of the game. X-Scissor is very useful for Pinsir, being able to 2HKO Uxie, Mesprit, and Claydol, and also scoring powerful hits on Alakazam, Ambipom, and Electrode. All three can then be disposed of with Quick Attack, which is the third competitive move that Heracross does not have. While its power is not great, priority is a great asset, enabling Pinsir to 2HKO all three faster Pokemon while taking only one attack at most. Stone Edge is a great move for Pinsir and has its uses on a lot of common leads. It is guaranteed to OHKO lead Moltres, and can also 2HKO 252 HP Bold Cloyster 70% of the time factoring in Leftovers. In addition, it [redundancy] is also a powerful weapon against Arcanine, usually OHKOing after Flare Blitz recoil, and after Pinsir has survived with Focus Sash, and can help against Froslass leads. The only real problem with it is its low accuracy, and so the main other option for that slot is Earthquake, which is a contender mainly for its higher accuracy. It does, however, leave you less than comfortable against Moltres and other Flying-type leads, but does enable you to 2HKO 252/176 Bold Omastar 90% of the time, whom you will struggle against otherwise. Also, Steelix and Registeel will both wall you unless you run Earthquake, though neither is consistantly 2HKOed by either attack, usually regardless. In the last slot, Stealth Rock is an option for if you get an opportunity to come back later in the game and set it up, but you will often find yourself with the choice of either setting it up and being eradicated, or beating the opponent but and ending up the victim of a revenge kill. Protect is another decent option, able to block Fake Out from Ambipom and Persian as well as being able to scout the opponent – of particular note is scouting out the opponent’s move if they attempt to revenge kill you with a faster Pokemon, as well as checking if the opponent has a Choice item.</p>

    <p>Pinsir has a couple of choices to decide from for its item. Focus Sash is usually the best, preventing Pinsir from being OHKOed by the likes of Moltres and Arcanine and allowing Pinsir to retaliate. Lum Berry is also useful to beat sleep leads such as Venusaur, as well as avoiding Uxie’s Thunder Wave and Yawn. Occa Berry is fairly situational and only of any real use for the conviction of beating all Arcanine leads, including those that run extra Speed. The EVs and nature generate the maximum possible unboosted Attack, which is vital to securing many important kills, such as the 2HKO on Uxie and ability to beat most Ambipom leads. Another point to take note of is the Speed stat, which allows Pinsir to hit 243 Speed, sufficient to outrun lead Arcanine, allowing it to use Quick Attack before Arcanine can use Extremespeed. Lastly, the HP EVs bulk Pinsir up, meaning it is never KOed by Silk Scarf Ambipom’s Technician Fake Out + Return, nor by two Returns from Focus Sash Ambipom, allowing Pinsir to usually beat it with X-Scissor + Quick Attack. If you run Occa Berry, as previously mentioned, Pinsir has the additional advantage of never being KOed by Lead Arcanine’s Flare Blitz or Overheat followed up by Extremespeed.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is extremely valuable and benefits all kinds of teams, though this Pinsir is not designed for the explicit purpose of getting the Rocks up on pain of death. This Pinsir will usually work best on pure or bulky offense teams, as he it [pronoun consistancy] has too poor survivability, even with defensive EVs, to be used on full or semi-stall teams. Good partners on offensive teams include Pokémon that benefit from early-game Stealth Rocks, such as mixed sweepers like Honchkrow and Magmortar. Neither of these enjoy Rock attacks aimed at Pinsir though, so tread carefully. In an offensive role, Pinsir’s great joy is in beating slower Psychic- and Dark-types such as Slowbro and Uxie, and thus makes a good partner to Fighting-types such as Hitmontop, who can also Spin away Stealth Rock that will give Pinsir problems and take care of Steel-, and Rock-types, and Psychic-types, such as Alakazam, who also has the added benefit of being able to strike down Fighting- and Poison-types such as Weezing and Hariyama that may pose Pinsir problems, especially considering that this Pinsir does not normally carry Mold Breaker or Earthquake. Lastly, bulky Water-types such as Milotic can be helpful to have around to deal with Fire- and Rock-type Pokemon, as well as helping to some extent with Honchkrow, who is a match for Pinsir, Fighting-types and Psychic-types.</p>

    Nice analysis. =]
  3. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Unfortunately, while this set is "good", I find doesn't really cut it in the current metagame without some major spin support from something like Kabutops.

    Team Options paragraph really needs to include the fact that Spikes are often easily set up against Pinsir, and the only "safe" switch in for most of the Spikers is Kabutops, since it's the only Spinner that really hits hard enough to take out the Spin Blockers.

    Just my thoughts anyway. Of course, if Froslass is deemed BL it wouldn't matter.
  4. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Thanks for the proofread, Xia.

    Firstly, Cloyster and Omastar are both 2HKOed by the appropriate attack. The only real Spiker of concern is Froslass, and let's face it, there aren't an awful lot of things in UU that can stop a pure suicide Froslass from setting up Spikes and also beat most other leads. If Froslass Taunts, it only gets a layer of Spikes up, and if it chooses to Destiny Bond, it loses a layer of Spikes as well. I suppose I'll add a bit about removing Spikes, but I would have thought that that applied to most leads, really.
  5. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Starting 5-5 with one layer of spikes on the opponent's side against one of the most common leads is really shaky.
  6. Lemmiwinks MkII

    Lemmiwinks MkII

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    If using Sash, it would make more sense to go Jolly with max speed and attack, as the bulk isn't needed as much. Ambipom is easily covered, and isn't worth sacrificing Pinsir for, probably ending up without Rocks afterwards, as that is the only case where Fake Out is significant.

    With Jolly and max speed you can outrun bulky Froslass and 2HKO with Stone Edge or set up SR before Taunt. It also allows Pinsir to check most forms of Gallade later in the match, who are increasingly opting for Jolly themselves. You also get to outrun Adamant variants of Arcanine, which is important as you can't assume that all of them will be the bulky standard, and also Modest Moltres. The Sash saves you once no matter what. As with the slower build, coming out even or better against the speedy Froslass all depends on the 50/50 prediction the second turn, so no difference there.
  7. twash

    twash
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    Need more opinions please.
  8. whistle

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    moving this to QC since this was written for an old metagame, and while I think the set is effective, the moves and EVs should be changed a little.

    X-Scissor / Stone Edge / Stealth Rock / Earthquake or Close Combat is tentatively what I'm thinking.

    Quick Attack doesn't provide much utility in the grand scheme of things and I don't see the point in Protect which was for Ambipom if you don't have Quick Attack or Close Combat (usually inferior because of Rotom but maybe can be used over EQ here for the occasional 2HKO on Omastar and the 2HKO on Rhyperior). instead of those two moves I'd much rather gain coverage against Registeel/Rhyperior/Rotom/Omastar and have the ability to set up Stealth Rock.

    calcs were done w/ Jolly which I think is needed in the current metagame. I guess Adamant can... 2HKO Omastar with CC? but then it'll switch out to defensive Mismagius/Rotom who you can't touch without EQ.

    I guess if you want to go a more "defensive" route with this set you can use Protect over one of the attacks, probably Stone Edge (since you can set up SR and scram vs Moltres).
  9. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    I have a few opinions about changes to this set (like Swords Dance...!) since I use a variant of it myself to great success, but those are probably too niche to be uploaded. However, I will make some general comments. First, why is the ability Hyper Cutter? Mold Breaker is much much MUCH better, since you absolutely should not be staying in on arcanine anyway and nothing else important has Intimidate. Quick Attack is still definitely an option though, it helps out against Qwilfish and Alakazam. Regarding the EVs, I think Jolly/max speed could merit a mention, as this lets you do some damage late game to things like Venusaur and Toxicroak and Magmortar, and lets you beat Modest Moltres leads even if you're using a Lum Berry (which, imo, is the best option).
  10. anti404

    anti404

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    hi, although I'm not nearly as prodigious a battler as FlareBlitz, I too have used Pinsir extensively(it's actually the only Lead I've used on my 'best' team since Raikou/Froslass left the tier), and find a 252Spe/252Atk Jolly with Earthquake/X-Scissor/Swords Dance/Stealth Rock @ Lum set to be most effective, what with the prominent use of Mesprit and Uxie, Ambipom's predictability, etc. I've tried using Quick Attack and Stone Edge over SD, but SDPinsir's dual capacity to decently set up the pointed stones and come back later to full on sweep has been great; not to mention the fact that it can just start its own little sweep to begin the game(think Qwilfish leads on Rain Dance teams).

    so, yeah, I am just reiterating FlareBlitz' opinions on lead Pinsir from my own personal experience.
  11. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    After reading all the comments and reevaluating the set, here is a summary of changes I was thinking of making with regards to the set:

    Long list of potential changes (open)


    • Lum Berry removed as slash, put into Additional Comments – very few status leads around, save Yawn Uxie, and Focus Sash is generally more reliable.
    • Arcanine appears to have fallen out of popularity as a lead, if recent stats are anything to go by (I haven’t seen many recently, but then again that could just be down to chance). In any case, this removes Hyper Cutter’s most valuable asset, even though you can still run it to beat Lead Arcanine. Thus, Mold Breaker is now the primary option; Hyper Cutter is in Additional Comments.
    • I’m sticking to Adamant for a number of reasons. Firstly, it lets you KO Ambipom sometimes with X-Scissor + Quick Attack. It also allows you to 2HKO Uxie most of the time, lets you kill Mesprit 100% of the time with X-Scissor + Quick Attack, lets you 2HKO Omastar with Close Combat, lets you kill Lead Kabutops with Close Combat + Quick Attack. Oh, and it also lets you KO Arcanine with Stone Edge + Quick Attack (although Flare Blitz recoil kind-of makes this advantage mute).
    • As for moves, X-Scissor is all-around STAB, so is pretty much always on the set. Quick Attack is necessary if you want to beat Ambipom, Alakazam, Mesprit, Kabutops, and just about everything with a Focus Sash reliably. It also helps if you want to get Stealth Rock up first, so you can break your opponent’s Sash before going down. Close Combat is necessary to beat Omastar, Kabutops, and Ambipom that try to Taunt you. Stone Edge is also worth a look in for the ability to beat Moltres, and Earthquake for the ability to beat Qwilfish, as well as semi-covering Omastar and Kabutops. However, if you are running a Jolly nature, you won’t really be covering these leads as well as you ought to (by which I mean, it will take more than two turns to dispose of them) but you can achieve more in midgame, so the moves that give the best coverage are advised – hence, Earthquake + Stone Edge. You still function as a reliable Anti-Lead, but Focus Sash stuff can be troublesome – thus, this is probably the best moveset for somebody who just wants to set up the Rocks and run. Speaking of Stealth Rock, on the set I haven’t slashed it as it is pretty integral to the set, but I am wondering whether it is worth mentioning a set without Stealth Rock in exchange for greater coverage? (Opinions needed here).
    • The combination of X-Scissor, Quick Attack, and Close Combat allows you to KO the top 6 leads of May (Ambipom, Uxie, Mesprit, Alakazam, Omastar, Kabutops) all in 2 moves, which I like. It also gives you one extra slot for Stealth Rock. However, it means that you cannot beat Moltres, and it also means that you are a sitting duck for just about every Poison- or Ghost-type there is to come in and set up. I don’t much like Stone Edge’s accuracy, but I still feel it should be an option for Moltres and Arcanine. Earthquake has better accuracy, but I’ve only ever found it to be useful against Qwilfish and to a lesser extent Arcanine. Kabutops is never OHKOed so can beat you with Stone Edge + Aqua Jet, and Omastar usually run so much Defence that they are unlikely to be 2HKOed. In short, I normally prefer Close Combat, but Earthquake is more useful later in the game, so… eh.
    • If you want to use a Jolly nature, it’s usually better if Pinsir concentrates less on beating other leads (because he loses some of the important KOs he gets on other leads and generally works better lategame than the combination above) and thus it’s usually better to run some sort of combination that is better later on in the game (ie. Earthquake/X-Scissor/Stone Edge) if you want to concentrate on Pinsir’s capacities outside the lead spot (if FlareBlitz insists I could add a mention of Swords Dance here, but I really don’t like using so many set-up moves on something like Pinsir, especially considering that it is in the lead spot).
    • For the EVs… I can’t see much point in running more Speed than already there from a lead perspective, with the possible exception of Modest Moltres, faster Uxie and Arcanine, and Mesprit if it isn’t running TrickScarf (which is basically never). However, these EVs were designed for the purpose of beating Focus Sash Ambipom, but since most of them run Life Orb now they have a much higher chance of beating Pinsir with Fake Out + Return (and if they don’t have Return, they can’t really kill Pinsir regardless of EVs). Thus, the HP EVs don’t really have any use anymore, especially with Focus Sash taken for granted, and the fact that no OHKOs or 2HKOs on Pinsir are changed by the presence or absence of those EVs. Thus, 252/252 is the way forward.
    • Jolly 252/252 can be more helpful in midgame (and Pinsir can still be useful outside of the lead spot). When testing this I almost never really got the chance to outrun anything, just picking off random frail stuff with Quick Attack, and Adamant was more helpful for the added power all round. However, if you aren’t running Quick Attack or are focusing primarily on getting Stealth Rock down, Jolly 252/252 is more helpful.


    Thus, if you didn't read the above, the new set would look something like this:

    [SET]
    name: Anti-Lead
    move 1: X-Scissor
    move 2: Quick Attack / Stone Edge
    move 3: Close Combat / Earthquake
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    I think that's all. If there are any objections to this (which I have no doubt there will be) please say something.
  12. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    I'm not going to insist on Swords Dance, certainly not. It shouldn't be mentioned as a standard by any means, it's just that I use it to good effect because my teams typically rely on heavy offensive pressure. It's fine if it's not in the analysis.

    Lum Berry should absolutely be slashed in, because the paralysis chance means that 25% of the time Uxie/Mespirit actually beat you (by getting rocks up while you don't, crippling pinsir, and breaking its sash) which isn't too great since one of the main perks of this lead is the ability to kill Uxie and Mespirit. Lum is also useful against Venomoth, Jumpluff, Persian, and other sleep leads. While they are not common, Focus Sash is only useful against Moltres and the occasional lead Rhyperior, which aren't particularly common themselves. Lum berry definitely deserves at least a slash, possibly even the main one.

    Glad to see the Mold Breaker and EV changes and the Jolly slash-in. Assuming you slash Lum Berry back in, I give this my Koffing.

    [​IMG]
  13. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Lum Berry slashed back in.

    I've also updated all the comments with the changes outlined in the above post, and added a few more paragraphs talking about Adamant vs. Jolly and the like. I think it may be too long now (I don't have a normal person's view of what is 'too long') so if you agree, let me know.

    Comments and criticisms appreciated as always.
  14. Rising_Dusk

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    Hi. I'm sure this set is great and all, but you've got a real issue with it being monstrously long. There is no reason you should have 4 long AC paragraphs, for instance. I know that Pinsir might not be common in UU, but you really do need to condense this down to a more manageable level. Look at some other recently uploaded analyses to know what we're looking for here; this is a good example of the length we like to see.

    This is only really relevant when it gets approved and moved to the UU section after QC is done with it, but I really just had to let you know.
  15. SlottedPig

    SlottedPig

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    This set is already made?! Nooo~

    Personally I think Stone Edge should not be listed in the main set and just be put in the comments because it has two targets whereas QA is vital against Ambipom, Focus Sash leads (notably Qwilfish and Alakazam), and is just useful priority, especially off a 383 Attack stat. Of what you claim for it to hit - Moltres and Arcanine - Earthquake already hits Arcanine hard, and on the off chance that Stone Edge misses on Moltres, Fire Blast / Flamethrower burns Pinsir, Air Slash flinches him, or it U-Turns out expecting a switch, you really haven't accomplished anything. Yes, those are all haxy chances except the U-Turn part, but when you're already starting with 85% accuracy it's in no way impossible.

    Just my two cents.
  16. bugmaniacbob

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    Set concised slightly and updated.

    Also:

    The point of Stone Edge is that is has far more utility when used alongside a Jolly nature than Quick Attack, and as such if you are going to use Jolly Stone Edge is more advisable. There's nothing to say that you can't use Quick Attack and Jolly, but I still think Stone Edge deserves a slash mainly for its midgame usefulness against certain switch-ins.
  17. Eo Ut Mortus

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  18. Folgorio

    Folgorio I KickTehAss
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    uhhh isnt quick attack + close combat illegal on pinsir...?
  19. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    yup lol

    pink is grammar edits/comments
    blue is prose/content edits


    [SET]
    name: Anti-Lead
    move 1: X-Scissor
    move 2: Quick Attack / Stone Edge
    move 3: Close Combat / Earthquake
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Focus Sash / Lum Berry
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Pinsir can work as an effective anti-lead against the more common leads in UU, balancing considerable attack power with decent physical bulk and Speed, and has the added benefit of being able to gain momentum through support moves, in particular one of the only moves not shared by Pinsir and his little brother Heracross: Stealth Rock. Although Stealth Rock is an important tool for almost all teams, with this set it takes a back seat in favor of primarily dealing with other leads.</p>

    <p>X-Scissor is another move that Pinsir has which Heracross does not, and although it sacrifices a massive amount of power compared to Heracross's Megahorn, it boasts perfect accuracy, which is especially important at the start of the game. X-Scissor is very useful for Pinsir, allowing him to 2HKO Uxie, Mesprit, and Claydol, and also scoring powerful hits on Alakazam, Ambipom, and Electrode. All three can then be disposed of with Quick Attack, which is the third competitive move which Heracross does not have. While its power is not great, priority is an important asset, enabling Pinsir to 2HKO all three faster Pokemon while taking only one attack at the most. Mesprit can also be beaten by X-Scissor + Quick Attack. Close Combat is another good tool for Pinsir to use, since it can easily OHKO Ambipom as well as 2HKO Omastar, and the combination of Close Combat + Quick Attack will rid you of Kabutops with ease. It is also useful for other lesser-seen leads such as Cloyster and Rhyperior, both of whom are 2HKOed thanks to Pinsir's Mold Breaker ability, and it can also be useful outside the lead spot to combat Registeel and Steelix. This combination enables you to beat most common leads in two turns or less, and also gives you the choice of whether it is in your interests either to set up Stealth Rock first or to decisively beat the opposing lead.</p>

    (yeah Close Combat + Quick Attack is illegal when used together on Pinsir, so I dunno why you talk about it in the analysis -.-)

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Although the combination listed above is usually the best for the lead spot, Pinsir has a number of other good options. Stone Edge is effective against several leads, most importantly Moltres. It is also a powerful weapon against Arcanine, usually OHKOing after Flare Blitz recoil, and can 2HKO lead Cloyster. The only real problem with it is its low accuracy. Earthquake allows you to take on and beat some lesser-seen leads, such as Arcanine, Qwilfish, Nidoking, and Nidoqueen, and also damages Omastar and Kabutops. It is also helpful outside of the lead slot, as it is Pinsir's best weapon against Rotom, Weezing, and Mismagius, as well as Rock- and Steel-types. However, it cannot 2HKO Omastar with Leftovers and does not beat Kabutops when paired with Quick Attack.</p>

    <p>Focus Sash is usually the best item, preventing Pinsir from being OHKOed by the likes of Moltres and Kabutops. Lum Berry can also be useful to avoid Uxie's Thunder Wave and Yawn. For the ability, Mold Breaker is the most useful option, though Hyper Cutter can also be helpful to negate Arcanine's Intimidate. The EVs and nature generate maximum Attack, allowing Pinsir to deal as much damage as possible. The Speed stat is also maximized, allowing Pinsir to outrun most lead Arcanine and Kabutops. The 4 leftover EVs go in Defense in order to give Pinsir five switches into Stealth Rock. A Jolly nature can also be an option, as the extra Speed allows you to outpace Modest Moltres, Adamant Qwilfish, and Jolly non-Scarf Mesprit. However, with a Jolly nature you cannot gain some of the important OHKOs listed above.</p>

    <p>In general, an Adamant nature with the primary move combination listed in the set is your best bet at beating the most common leads. However, with a Jolly nature you tend to be more able to participate in the rest of the battle, and are more reliable at getting Stealth Rock up. As such, you should concentrate more on using Pinsir's power in general with a Jolly nature; thus, it is recommended that you use the combination of X-Scissor / Stone Edge / Earthquake, since this combination tends to be more useful against the rest of your opponent's team, and Jolly Pinsir will not be reliable at taking down your opponent's lead regardless. If you want more coverage on this set, you can remove Stealth Rock in favor of Stone Edge or Earthquake, but this is not recommended.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock benefits all kinds of teams, but this Pinsir will usually work best on pure or bulky offense teams. You should also note that if you lack Close Combat, dedicated Spiker Omastar or Cloyster can set up two layers of Spikes against you, so you should also carry a Rapid Spinner. Rapid Spinners are also helpful to remove Stealth Rock from the field, which will badly hurt Pinsir if you keep him for later. Good partners on offensive teams include Pokemon who benefit from early-game Stealth Rock, such as Blaziken and Venusaur. Neither of these enjoy Rock-type attacks aimed at Pinsir though, so tread carefully. In an offensive role, Pinsir's great joy is in beating down slower Psychic- and Dark-types such as Slowbro and Uxie, and thus makes a good partner to Fighting-types such as Hitmontop, who can also Rapid Spin away Stealth Rock that will give Pinsir problems. Fast Psychic-types such as Alakazam also make good partners, able to strike down Fighting- and Poison-types. Lastly, bulky Water-types such as Milotic can be helpful to deal with Fire- and Rock-type Pokemon, as well as helping to some extent against Swellow and other fast Flying-types.</p>


    Good analysis, but still pretty long.
  20. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
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    It is, incidentally. I'm not sure how this ended up happening (I thought I had encountered one with CC + QA; turns out it was Earthquake judging from the logs).

    Moving back to QC.

    EDIT: So basically, slashes should probably be as follows:

    move 1: X-Scissor
    move 2: Close Combat / Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge / Quick Attack
    move 4:
    Stealth Rock

    Also, to everyone, including myself and other members of QC: please test all your sets before posting them.
  21. whistle

    whistle
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    what eo said looks good. as long as you detail the uses of each combination of moves in the comments, i don't think the exact slash order is too important; this is probably the "best" anyways. also i noticed that you (bmb) said x scissor + qa can kill ambipom a few posts up, except it'll just kill you with fake out + return (most of the time with silk scarf, all the time with life orb).

    also serves a bump for the author to update the op.
  22. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Everything updated. I am extremely sorry about the illegal move combination - this set originally did not include Close Combat, when Arcanine was more popular and Omastar and Kabutops were barely seen - when it came to updating it I simply assumed that Quick Attack was a level-up move and didn't check it. My fault entirely, apologies.
  23. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
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    Going to go ahead and move this back to UU.
  24. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Just quietly bumping this

    Still need grammar checks - any sort are appreciated.
  25. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    I was gonna GP check this, but I saw some Heracross mentions. I seem to recall eo or someone mentioning that Heracross shouldnt be discussed in analyses yet, as it's entirely plausible that he wont be in UU for too long. I'd like to get some mod clarification on whether or not Heracross can be mentioned in UU analyses before I GP check this.

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