1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pokémon Pinsir

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Adonzo, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. Adonzo

    Adonzo

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    401
    Pinsir #127
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Type: Bug (Normal) | Bug/Flying (Mega)
    HP - 65 | 65
    Atk - 125 | 155
    Def - 100 | 120
    SpA - 55 | 65
    SpD - 70 | 90
    Spe - 85 | 105

    Abilities
    Hyper Cutter
    - Prevents other Pokémon from lowering its Attack stat.
    Mold Breaker - Moves can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities.
    Moxie (DW) - Boosts the Attack stat after knocking out any Pokémon.
    Aerilate (Mega) - Normal-type moves become Flying-type moves.

    Notable moves (STABs in italics, including STABs gained through Aerilate):
    Body Slam
    Bulk Up
    Close Combat
    Double-Edge
    Earthquake
    Frustration/Return
    Quick Attack

    Rock Slide
    Stealth Rock
    Stone Edge
    Swords Dance
    Thrash
    X-Scissor


    Overview
    Pinsir has long stood in the shadows of his bash brother Heracross, being outclassed in practically every role due to his mono-type, weaker moves, and lesser abilities. About the only things Pinsir could claim over Heracross were an unSTABed Quick Attack and mediocre Mold Breaker Stealth Rock shenanigans.

    This finally changes with the advent of Mega Evolutions. While both Heracross and Pinsir received one, Heracross' is of dubious value, while Pinsir's finally moves him into territory Heracross can't touch, with a different dual-STAB, higher speed, and unique, powerful priority. Mega Pinsir boasts a huge 155 Attack, solid 105 Speed, and decent 65/120/90 defenses, in addition to powerful coverage and boosting options. Meanwhile, the unique properties of Mega Evolution allow Pinsir to somewhat circumvent the biggest weakness of its fellow Bug/Flying types, Stealth Rock. While it may not be as eye catching as some of the other Mega Evolutions and must compete with them for a slot on the team, it is finally time for Pinsir to make its presence known.

    Potential Movesets:
    Mega Swords Dance

    Moveset:
    Swords Dance
    Double-Edge/Return
    Close Combat
    Quick Attack / Earthquake / Stone Edge
    Ability: Moxie
    Item: Pinsirite (or w/e its called)
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP

    Mega Pinsir's unique ability, Aerilate, completely changes its moveset by changing Normal-typed moves to the Flying type. Unlike the beneficiaries of similar abilities Pixillate and Refrigerate, Pinsir has just the right moves to abuse with this ability. Double-Edge effectively becomes Brave Bird, combining with Close Combat for excellent coverage, being resisted only by Aegislash, Rotom, Dedenne, and Electric/Flying types. Swords Dance then boosts Pinsir's 155 Attack to insane levels. Return is a solid alternative to Double-Edge if you don't like recoil, as is Thrash if you don't mind being locked in.

    The fourth slot is up to player preference. Quick Attack is the only form of Flying-typed priority outside of Talonflame, and is the preferred option since you aren't boosting Pinsir's Speed. If you're aiming for better coverage, Earthquake covers Aegislash, who is likely to be the most common switch in to Fighting/Flying, and has the added bonus of being non-contact, and as such, not triggering King's Shield. If you are more concerned about the likes of Zapdos or Thundurus, then Stone Edge is for you. Unfortunately, Pinsir is still stuck with X-Scissor as a Bug STAB, which is no stronger than unSTABed Close Combat and provides no notable coverage.

    While ability choice is largely irrelevant due to it being overwritten by Aerilate upon evolving, Moxie is still the preferred choice. Pinsir still has 125 Attack and 85 Speed before evolving, leaving him more than capable of nabbing a KO on a slow or weakened mon, giving you a free +1 before evolving. Another one of Mega Pinsir's perks is its mono-Bug typing on its first switch in. This means that unlike other Bug/Flying types, Pinsir will only take 25% damage from Stealth Rock initially instead of a whopping 50%, circumventing the types greatest weakness and reducing reliance on a Rapid Spinner. However, it must be wary trying to switch in after evolving, as its Bug/Flying typing will be in full effect.

    For choice of Nature, Jolly is preferred for the purpose of outspeeding Jolly 100-104s such as Garchomp. Adamant is also possible for blowing up all the things.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  2. Mattman324

    Mattman324

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    968
    Mega Pinsir's sprite has the colors on the top, might want to fix that.

    Hmm... the ability is great for Pinsir. I can see Stone Edge becoming a big hit on this one, because as it looks now Zapdos is a serious threat - it hits your less acceptable Special Defense with an SE Thunderbolt and it's lights out, plus its defenses aren't TERRIBLE. Worth watching out for.
    Hyota and Boondocker like this.
  3. Lord Raiden

    Lord Raiden

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    99
    I don't understand why they made him part flying.

    I would have rather seen Gamefreak give Pinsir a regular evolution, and have it been Bug/Dark. Would make sense thematically, and would be better than a 4x weakness to SR. Just because it has wings doesn't mean it has to be __/Flying, gamefreak...

    A different ability would have been nice too, like a way to make Normal moves Dark, or maybe it should have just kept Guts.

    It also doesn't make sense to me that gamefreak threw ten points into its SAtk. That should have gone into SDef...
  4. Mattman324

    Mattman324

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    968
    Fair point on the Special Attack bit, but I personally think that the Flying type and the ability that basically gives him Flying priority and Brave Bird is what's going to make Pinsir great. No other Bug/Flying has had good stats in the past AND good movepool AND a good way to abuse those STABs - Pinsir does, and that makes it viable, because Bug/Flying are both surprisingly usable types in OU.

    The SR weakness is a bit bad, but remember your first switch in doesn't get affected by it as much.
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,211
    There is no need for Close Combat. This should be Mega Pinsir's main set:

    Pinsir @ Pinsirite
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Ability: Hyper Cutter (to prevent Intimidate users to lower you Attack on the turn you MEvolve)
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly
    - Swords Dance
    - Return / Double Edge
    - Quick Attack
    - Earthquake

    Close Combat or not, Pinsir is not getting past Skarmory so there is that. Also, Zapdos is not really relevant atm, or at least wasn't by the end of 5th gen. Meanwhile, Earthquake is a must to get past Aegislash, which would totally counter you otherwise, while keeping your defenses intact is very nice as well because Mega Pinsir has good physical bulk. Other than this, this Pokemon is a nuke, and +2 Quick Attack is really awesome against offensive teams, letting Mega Pinsir be very useful against both defensive and offensive teams. Some calcs:
    • +2 252+ Atk Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 360-424 (85.71 - 100.95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. Can't do much back, unless phaze, which is admiteddly a problem for a 4x SR weak Pokemon.
    • +1 252+ Atk Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 285-336 (74.8 - 88.18%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • +2 252+ Atk Pinsir Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 313-370 (74.52 - 88.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    • +2 252+ Atk Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash: 294-348 (90.74 - 107.4%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • +2 252+ Atk Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 288-340 (81.81 - 96.59%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • +2 252+ Atk Pinsir Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 339-400 (96.3 - 113.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • +2 252+ Atk Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 178-211 (54.93 - 65.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • +2 252+ Atk Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 356-422 (110.21 - 130.65%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Also, here are some common priority attacks against Mega Pinsir (except from Breloom, which is outsped and OHKOed by Quick Attack)
    • 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 138-163 (50.92 - 60.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 125-148 (46.12 - 54.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 159-190 (58.67 - 70.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 90-107 (33.21 - 39.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 141-166 (52.02 - 61.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    Mega Pinsir avoids the OHKO from all of those, even after SR, assuming it only switched in once, which is how it should be played anyway. Pretty strong sweeper, but as most Stealth Rock weak Pokemon will need a lot of support to work and faces heavy competition from other MEvos. At least it has useful priority to help with revenge kills.
  6. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,918
    alexwolf are you factoring aerilate boosts for your calcs?
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,211
    I just factored in STAB, does Aerilate also boost the Normal attacks that it turns into Flying?
  8. halodeoxys

    halodeoxys

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Protean gives STAB to every attacking move since it changes the user's type to the move used's type so i would imagine Aerilate boosts those as well.
  9. Manaphy

    Manaphy

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    695
    Protean gives STAB because it's literally changing the users type before the move is used, there's no reason Aerilate would give extra power to the move it converts.
  10. Lord Jesseus

    Lord Jesseus

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,030
    Wait, does Protean go before the move? I thought it was after?

    Either way, obviously you get STAB on Aerilate moves (if you are flying type) but unless otherwise stated I don't see any reason it would boost them beyond that.
  11. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,978
    Protean does go before and allows STAB on everything. It's contributing to all the hype over Greninja.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,211
    Mega Pinsir will use a Normal move, Aerilate changes it to Flying-type, and then it gets STAB? Ground-type Pokemon still got STAB on Nature Power when it turned to Earthquake iirc, so i don't see why this ability would work any different.
  13. halodeoxys

    halodeoxys

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Well wouldn't Aerilate change the type of the move before its used? It all just looked like it would make sense. Either way Im pretty sure aerilate factors STAB.
  14. Manaphy

    Manaphy

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    695
    You misinterpret what I'm saying. STAB should obviously be factored in for Aerilate but it makes to no sense to have any additional boost from it.
  15. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,918
    LOL I just meant if you guys were factoring STAB on moves like Return, which get converted to flying thanks to Aerilate.

    Why did this get so messed up?
    Hubbystuff and Crackjack like this.
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,211
    When i made the calcs, i just changed the type of Return, Double-Edge, and Quick Attack to Flying and gave a Flying typing to Pinsir.
    Soul Fly likes this.
  17. 56k

    56k

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    280
    Pinsir gets Storm Throw which is now a 60 Base Power physical and contacting fighting type move. It is 100% accurate. Crits do 1.5x damage now which makes it a 90 Base Power move. Crits ignore stat boosts so it could be useful against someone who is using bulk up or acid armor (Scrafty and Baton Pass teams come to mind)
    SkaterTrainer likes this.
  18. Bynine

    Bynine

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,018
    [​IMG]

    You guys can use this for the OP!

    As for Pinsir itself, it's basically getting a STAB Brave Bird with Double Edge. Phenomonal! I hope it gets to see some use in higher tiers due to this.
  19. PJ_Graphix

    PJ_Graphix

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    102
    It might be of note that it gets a stab on a flying type giga impact and while it is essentially a death sentence it can pretty much guarantee a KO on a threat it normally wouldn't be able to or as a last ditch effort to dent something on the way out. Stab on a 150bp physical move coming off of 155 base atk is something to fear no matter how you look at it.

    Also A Stab on facade may be usable as a status absorber. Although i doubt a rest/talk set would be viable with it's typing and defenses
  20. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,978
    Giga Impact is really bad. There are things worse than death, and letting your opponent have a chance to switch in a sweeper and start setting up before you even have a chance to switch can be one of them. If Pinsir can't take out their sweeper in one hit, they can snag a ridiculous two turns of setup before obliterating Pinsir and then rampaging through the rest of your team. There's no way it's worth burning a moveslot on a move than can easily lose you the game in an instant.
  21. Adonzo

    Adonzo

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    401
    On the topic of Close Combat vs. Earthquake, and specifically

    +2 252 Atk (custom) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory @ Leftovers: 170-200 (50.89 - 59.88%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO - guaranteed after Stealth Rock

    (170, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200)

    That's Jolly. Once Pinsir has set up a Swords Dance, Skarm can not safely switch in lest it get outsped and 2HKO'd by Close Combat. Running Double-Edge + Earthquake leaves Pinsir unable to hit Skarmory, in addition to Rotom-W, Bronzong, Aerodactyl, Zapdos, and Thundurus.

    Despite issues with Aegislash, who will no doubt be very popular, I believe Double-Edge + Close Combat is the superior pairing.
  22. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Does Pinsir get X-Scissor? Or is this totally outclassed by Aerilate Double Edge + Close Combat?
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,211
    Skarmory switches in as Pinsir uses Swords Dance, then Pinsir uses Close Combat and Skarmory OHKOes with Brave Bird. There is no scenario where Pinsir can beat Skarmory, even with Close Combat. Of 'course Close Combat is useful for Skarmory as long as you are able to weaken it beforehand, but that's really it's only advantage over Earthquake. Out of the rest of the Pokemon you mentioned, Bronzong is 2HKOed by both Close Combat and Double Edge, but Double Edge is the best move to use against itso you don't give it a chance to hit you with Gyro Ball against your lowered Defense. Aerodactyl outspeeds and OHKOes Pinsir regardless of coverage, Zapdos is not good enough to see significant usage in OU, Thundurus and Thundurus-T are hit harder by Return / Double Edge than Close Combat, and Rotom-W is OHKOed by +2 Double Edge after 10% previous damage (very easy to do on something with no reliable coverage that is used as a pivot early and mid-game).

    Not to mention that Earthquake is not only for dealing with Aegislash (which is super important on itself already), but also to not lower your defenses and become easy picking for priority users. As i already showcased, Mega Pinsir can take any priority hit (aside from Talonflame's flying attacks) after Stealth Rock, and by using Close Comabt you are wasting this quality of his. Earthquake is undoubtedly the best coverage option. Close Combat is AC material at best, maybe even OO.
  24. Bugzy

    Bugzy

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Pinsir seems really interesting now. He's one of a few megas where it seems like just mega evolving right away isn't neccesarily the best option. It seems like the best way to use him would be to delay mega evloving to pick off weekend foes and grab moxie boosts while still in regular form.

    Pinsir's speed is sort of a problem when trying to grab moxie boosts, especially since he can't use choice scarf if hes going to go mega, but maybe sticky web support could help with that.
  25. stocean

    stocean

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7
    Does anyone know how to teach Double-Edge, Quickattack, and Close Combat to Pinsir? I can't seem to find the information.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)