Mega Mence will probably be more similar to Zard X and I could very well see it banworthy if it gains more speed and power. Either way, Mega Pinsir still has priority and is already plenty strong so I doubt it will go much down in usage.
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Pokémon Pinsir
- Thread starter Adonzo
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Pretty sure most people who bother to use ditto at this point will be setting their happiness to the lowest value, lol
Yeah I used to use thrash but considering 're turn but I doubt I'll see a ditto.
Mega Salamence is realistically a marriage between Char-X and M-pinsir, and its stat spread will dictate whether it's less than thesum of its parts.
Aerilate thrash is as powerful as tough claw flare blitz and outrage, however Mence's coverage moves all pale in comparison its flying STAB. So you're only slightly more powerful than Char-X with worse coverage moves and redundant STAB combination unlike X which synergize perfectly.
You have a flying STAB stronger than M-pinsir, but no swords dance means you're actually weaker. Also you get no priority and depending on the BST increase a potentially weaker earthquake before the boost.
Mence's ability to outshine M-Pinsir will be ddpendent n a speed increase making the need for priority obsolete at +1, its defence boost allowing it to tank some prioeity and set up easier, and it having attack high enough to out muscle nonboosted pinsir. access to either roost or either fireblast for skatm or draco for rotom will be the biggest decider.
Aerilate thrash is as powerful as tough claw flare blitz and outrage, however Mence's coverage moves all pale in comparison its flying STAB. So you're only slightly more powerful than Char-X with worse coverage moves and redundant STAB combination unlike X which synergize perfectly.
You have a flying STAB stronger than M-pinsir, but no swords dance means you're actually weaker. Also you get no priority and depending on the BST increase a potentially weaker earthquake before the boost.
Mence's ability to outshine M-Pinsir will be ddpendent n a speed increase making the need for priority obsolete at +1, its defence boost allowing it to tank some prioeity and set up easier, and it having attack high enough to out muscle nonboosted pinsir. access to either roost or either fireblast for skatm or draco for rotom will be the biggest decider.
None of the mons you mentionned (besides bisharp) put enough offensive pressure to back up Pinsir. Lati@s (Latios for power, Latias for healing wish) are the best defogger for him, Talonflame is a good teammate to create a spam bird strategy, Thundurus or AV Raikou can come on Talonflame's brave bird and AV Raikou checks Thundurus pretty damn well too. You don't have time to wall something with it, you need to put enough pressure to break walls like skarm (like SD Diggersby for example) to make him capable to tear the team apart, putting mons like quagsire will destroy the rythm of the team, letting your opponent to put SR again (that you can't defog if bisharp traps you) and slowing down your switches with pinsir
I actually use a Diggersby to help out Pinsir, immune to electric, immune to ghost (No Shadow Ball spam!!!11 Wait Aegi is gone.) Takes out fire, steel, electric. Return hits a lot of things neutrally, and hits hard with LO or CB, and Wild charge to balance things out.
I also use Sylveon Slowbro, and Sableye (The SSS team!). If I can, I send wishes to MegaPinsir with sylv (Also my Special wall) taunt/cripple users with sableye, and slowbro..well, he's a physical wall, and has Twave, which is useful, to cover things Pinsir can't outspeed. Too bad there are too many ScarfChomps nowadays.
If I ever used a Ditto, I would set its happiness to 127, or the exact middle value.
mence gets dragon dance and the possibility to use special attacks (it learns hyper voice for some reason). it also has dragon stab which is far better than pinsir's bug stab. while it misses out on priority, it gets intimidate and an increase in bulk to make it really good, on top of a far better typing (let's be real, bug/flying sucks dick as a typing). it's going to be harder to wall thanks to the awesome offensive movepool mence has. no doubt pinsir is good but outside of quick attack, what advantages does pinsir have?
Pinsir is potentially stronger depending on how high M-Mence's attack boost is. Also while Dragon STAB has been great in the past aerilate means Mence is going to be using his flying STAB since it's stronger, and flying + dragon is redundant. Mence will actually probably use flying + ground coverage, the exact same thing Pinsir typically uses.
The big difference will actually come from 2 things, Mence's speed and Mence's bulk, rather than his power. Mence has access to roost, which means he can comfortably use double edge and outmuscle Pinsir unboosted. However Pinsir is stronger by virtue of swords dance. Pinsir has powerful priority, however Mence's speed boosting via DD and increased bulk to defend against priority means he can use double edge on pokemon Pinsir would have to use quick attack for. If Mence chooses to run a special move in fire blast or draco meteor he can deal with either rotom or skarmory, but Pinsir can deal with both at the same time by choosing to run CC. Ultimately Mence will likely be a more powerful, aggressive Dragon Dancer and give Charizard X a run for his money, rather than the outright powerhouse Pinsir is with his swords dance.
Of course, the combination of bulk and roost makes a 252atk adamant set that aims for more than one DD possible, turning it into a monster with power that Exceed's Pinsir and Charizard-X, as well as superior speed.
If Mence gets a speed or attack drop that is an entire other story, however if it's simply a large defence boost accompanied by smaller boosts elsewhere like to speed or spatk it's definitely going to be extremely similar to Char-X, But with M-Pinsir's type coverage. Honestly M-Mence's speed stat and tier will be the deciding factor for how it operates in relation to the two other megas, and unril we see a stat spread I believe we've discussed all we can about Mence (in relation to Pinsir I mean, as this is the Pinsir thread.)
Keldeo NEEDS to be mentioned in any discussion on MPinsir's best partners. She takes ice, fire and (crucially) rock type attacks that would otherwise decimate our favourite stag beetle.
The sheer amount of offensive pressure Keldeo mounts in the meantime often greatly softens up the enemy team, giving MPinsir an easier time coming in to setup and sweep.
Y'all are focusing too much on typing, think about threats, not typing.
Who's using ice move? Kyube is destroyed by +2 return easily, maybe even +0 after SR could kill, and keldeo can't switch on it. Mamoswine is right, but you have to be careful about EQ. What fire type moves? Heatran is destroyed by Close combat, Talonflame kills both pinsir and Keldeo, Pinsir is faster than both charizards and so on...
You can't rely only on typing for teambuilding, you need to cover threats
Who's using ice move? Kyube is destroyed by +2 return easily, maybe even +0 after SR could kill, and keldeo can't switch on it. Mamoswine is right, but you have to be careful about EQ. What fire type moves? Heatran is destroyed by Close combat, Talonflame kills both pinsir and Keldeo, Pinsir is faster than both charizards and so on...
You can't rely only on typing for teambuilding, you need to cover threats
Keldeo can come in on ScarfDrill's rock slide when it really can't afford to risk the EQ (just as an example). The synergy runs the other way as well and gives MPinsir a valuable setup opportunity in the face of powerful grass types such as MVenu. So the partnership has its uses.
I was by no means suggesting a 2 'mon core is all you need for the entire meta. The rest of your team is there for a reason and if you don't have answers to things like Heatran and Talonflame, your team has a problem lol. Just because there are things that threaten Keldeo and MPinsir, doesn't mean they're not a ridiculously good pairing. In fact, the pairing is one of the most well known atm in HO after the old DeoSharp etc.
The point is that the two mons are capable of giving eachother relatively safe switch-in opportunities when played correctly. They can do massive, often unavoidable, damage when given these opportunities so they make an excellent pairing. Using Mamo and Cube as examples is a bit dodgy anyway as they're usually incredibly difficult to switch into at the best of times (similarly to Lando-I).
I use frustration on PS
So frustration , feint and...?
My set-up is Return, QA, CC, and SD. didn't try Feint, so I can't comment on that.
I don't know if Frustration is good only for dittos :/
That being said, I haven't seen a single ditto on PS.
I guess the argument on Thrash vs Return is like Outrage vs Dragon claw on the dragons.
Well, the dragons get to hold an item, and some of them have better bulk than Pinsir (Dragonite/Salamence) so I guess that isn't valid argument.
I've also had trouble setting up SD nowadays. It might be just me. +2 Return hits like a truck, +2 QA does decent damage. I've seen people run more random attacks to hit me (Well, its not really random then) Like random HP Ice and HP rock.
So is SD really necessary? Before the Aegi ban, I ran Return, QA, CC, and EQ. Even without Aegi, EQ does a good bit to other pokes. The again, I haven't tested EQ after Aegis ban, I'll see how that goes.
Frustration, Feint, Earthquake, and CC
I don't think SD is neccasery cause return/frustration hits as hard as crap
Lol SD is absolutely necessary. What does EQ hit that CC doesn't? Return/Frustration don't really hit "hard as crap" unboosted, especially without a life orb and assuming a Jolly nature
It's kind of like the decision to run SD on Scizor or not.
On one hand, you get insane boosted, STAB, priority (For QA) and can sweep comfortable. You have to find a turn to set up, or have it Baton passed to you.
On the other hand, you lose some power that will make it harder to sweep, but you have another coverage move.
KlynPar: I don't know about it, SD is probably a must, but I can't help it when I'm facing a fire, steel (By steel, i mean M-Mawilelol), or poison, I think "If only I had EQ"
You're probably right though.
But it does take a large chunk out of something that is neutral to it. I've also found that it's hard to set up SD, so I've just been spamming return/QA to get the job done. In a nutshell, it won't kill a completely healthy poke, but it'll take a lot out of it
Lol I have the same set and yeah I don't use frustration because I've never Sen a ditto on PS , and yeah SD is hard to set up especially when most thing can take him down .
EQ hits Heatran. That's it. And before you say that Skarmory walls me, I'm just going to say, CC doesn't land an OHKO, and Skarmory's brave bird OHKOes Pinsir at -1. So you're not getting past Skarmory anyway unless you're being stupid and running impish nature with 252 hp and 252 defense. Ciao.
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