Wait... No STAB? You really don't need EQ and CC at the same time, and Feint might be able to replace Quick Attack but it sure as hell isn't a replacement for Return.
How am I the first to notice this lmao
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Pokémon Pinsir
- Thread starter Adonzo
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How am I the first to notice this lmao
Well, just wondering, why Feint on a predicted (Gliscor, say) Protect? SD is much, much better. Would you rather do a 30 BP move, then a 102 BP (not counting STAB or Aerialate) or just one effectively 204 BP move on a Gliscor? Plus SD doubles QA's power, making it harder to revenge w/out Talonflame.
With Aegislash and Mega-Mawile banned to Ubers, what's the point of EQ over CC? Those two were IMO the reasons to go EQ > CC. Now, Pinsir can run CC to not get walled (as hard) by Rotom-W (+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 211-249 (69.4 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) and Skarmory (+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 170-200 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) note this though
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 140-165 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 186-218 (68.6 - 80.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Use SD as Skarm switches in, then Return so no defense drops, as Skarm's BB usually won't KO (I mean, rocks < Defog), then CC FTW. Rotom-W, being the magnet for random attacks, dies to CC at +2.
Lastly, there is one other option to get past some of MPinsir's checks and some counters - Thrash. Look at these "counters" and "checks".
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 165-194 (49.4 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 205-242 (67.4 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 252-297 (65.6 - 77.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 389-458 (107.4 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 336-396 (87.9 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 403-475 (114.1 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 364-429 (92.6 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 140-165 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 186-218 (68.6 - 80.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Use SD as Skarm switches in, then Return so no defense drops, as Skarm's BB usually won't KO (I mean, rocks < Defog), then CC FTW. Rotom-W, being the magnet for random attacks, dies to CC at +2.
Lastly, there is one other option to get past some of MPinsir's checks and some counters - Thrash. Look at these "counters" and "checks".
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 165-194 (49.4 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 205-242 (67.4 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 252-297 (65.6 - 77.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 389-458 (107.4 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 336-396 (87.9 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 403-475 (114.1 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 364-429 (92.6 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
It's the power drop. Feint hits 39 Base Power after Aerialate, which is weaker than all other Priorty Attacks (except for Water Shuriken hitting twice). Quick Attack hits 52 Base Power which is decently strong for a Priority attack and one of Mega Pinsir's selling points is its strong Priority making it a bitch to kill without a resist or Talonflame. Dragonite should probably be dealt with beforehand unless you keep SR up, since boosted Returns will OHKO it.
You need Feint in order to not get outstalled by SubProtect Toxic Gliscor, so you can break its substitute on the turn it protects and then smack it with Return. If it lacks Sub, though, it's better to do as you said.
Who the hell uses sub protect gliscor? ........... all the gliscors atm are spdef taunt roost, which gets ohkoes at +2
anyway, that's not the point. Feint is way too weak to justify use over qa. the 10 power difference is simply too great to pass up, no matter how trivial it looks. it doesn't even OHKO keldeo at +2.... it's too weak
anyway, that's not the point. Feint is way too weak to justify use over qa. the 10 power difference is simply too great to pass up, no matter how trivial it looks. it doesn't even OHKO keldeo at +2.... it's too weak
Um, well you dont OHKO either w/ Feint, and Luke 3HKOs w/ unboosted Espeed. You should Return on Dnite, +2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 257-303 (79.5 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Admittedy, Feint would be better after this, but +1 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 125-148 (46.1 - 54.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
2HKOs w/ a boost. Lucario is a joke - 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 95-112 (35 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 258-304 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I feel as if Pinsir is going to be a very strong force in ORAS. Anyone else agree?
He was already a strong force in XY so it is not unlikely he will still remain a strong force in ORAS. He will however face a stronger competition with the new megas or did you mean he has gotten better in ORAS? It seems to me people are getting more adjusted to Zone so I'm not sure it has gotten easier providing him support but I haven't used him in ORAS so maybe I'm just babbling nonsense ^^
I'm pretty sure for the first few months, M-Mence is going to like, overtake everything. If it gets banned, M-pinsir will hopefully rise again.
What new Megas do you guys think will be problems for M-Pinsir, other than Mence? I can say off the bat, M-bro might cause some problems, Return is neutral, but it can scald you away and fish for burns.
What new Megas do you guys think will be problems for M-Pinsir, other than Mence? I can say off the bat, M-bro might cause some problems, Return is neutral, but it can scald you away and fish for burns.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Neutral isn't good enough against MegaBro, apparently.
Apart from Bro and Mence, none of the new Megas seem to affect Pinsir too badly. Metagross checks it well enough, especially if it's already Megaed, Diancie is a bit problematic too, and more Sableye is never a good thing, but those are the only negative things it faces. On the other hand, threatening Gallade, Lopunny, Sceptile, and Beedrill is pretty nice, and it'll still be a pain in the ass to switch into, so I don't see it losing too much once Mence leaves.
Talonflame arguably checks them better with stronger flying priority and not having to use the mega slot. But being a fighting/grass/bug check is really doing Mega Pinsir disservice anyways as it can do so much more as a fantastic wallbreaker/sweeper but it does face some competition in that area and not just from Mega Salamence. Anyways it saw a great use in XY and I don't think it will change much in ORAS.
As it was called before in the argument between Msala and Mpinsir, it is pretty much an argument about imediate firepower with a priority vs reliability. Pinsir can get an easy +2 if he is brought in safely and start wrecking chaos with aerilate returns or pick off faster threats not called tflame with quick attack with the added bonus of running either CC or EQ(CC is pretty much the superior option) giving him a great potential on hitting stuff not named zapdos really damm hard, move tutors will also allow knock off move combinations now making him a bit less predictable, all in all he hits hard as a truck if he does get his boost.
Whereas MSalamence has intimidate, wich allows him to pretty much set on almost every dammed physical oriented pokemonand get a DD off effortlesly, this gets ridiculous whem some SE moves cant break a sub if Salamence patches his defences properly. To make matters worse his movepool while not ridiculously diverse allows him to hit hatd the stuff that he wants to hit hard ranging from both sides of the spectrum while having some good toys as defog or refresh to boot. While having a goodsend speed tier.
Its all about what you want. Sheer power walled by a selected few, or the chance to surprise your enemy with an arguably imediate weaker pokemon, but can reliably get stronger or remove pokemons in the switch in with its coverage. They migth be Birdspammers, that often require trapping...But as standalone mons they are played in a very different way.
Whereas MSalamence has intimidate, wich allows him to pretty much set on almost every dammed physical oriented pokemonand get a DD off effortlesly, this gets ridiculous whem some SE moves cant break a sub if Salamence patches his defences properly. To make matters worse his movepool while not ridiculously diverse allows him to hit hatd the stuff that he wants to hit hard ranging from both sides of the spectrum while having some good toys as defog or refresh to boot. While having a goodsend speed tier.
Its all about what you want. Sheer power walled by a selected few, or the chance to surprise your enemy with an arguably imediate weaker pokemon, but can reliably get stronger or remove pokemons in the switch in with its coverage. They migth be Birdspammers, that often require trapping...But as standalone mons they are played in a very different way.
babaGAReeb
Banned deucer.
beedrill will overshadow the pinsir in bug megas
I dont think anyone used pinsir as a bug or even carried bug attacks on him...It was all about figthing, flying and ground moves with sd priority.
Beedril doesnt do that other than share an initial SR weakness.
yes, mega beedrill and mega pinsir have two completely different roles offensively. not sure what that dude is talking about lol
babaGAReeb
Banned deucer.
if one bug is more used over other it overshadows the bug
If one setupbirdspammer is not used as a bug its just another birdspamer getting hit by SR.
Their roles are diferent as hell. A frail UTurner/Cleaner cant compare to a setup sweeper with priority. That is like comparing Mgyarados to scarf rotom W...
dialganet
Banned deucer.
Pinsir's gonna be great again. As soon as MMence leaves, which I'm confident it won't take too long, Pinsir will rise again given its absurd firepower thanks to Arealiate (this thing is technically stronger than Mence, just from a damage standpoint).
Its ability to check a handful of new threats with Arealiate Quick Attack will come in handy against some of the rising meta. Taking down Sceptile, Lopunny and Gallade is no joke.
Its ability to check a handful of new threats with Arealiate Quick Attack will come in handy against some of the rising meta. Taking down Sceptile, Lopunny and Gallade is no joke.
Yeah, except, you know, mega pinsir can survive a hit. And has priority. Plus close combat. And doesn't use his Bug typing at all.
252 Atk Mega Gallade Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 168-198 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Pinsir's physical bulk isn't bad at all; the main problem is its typing. It can take a hit from a lot of the new megas its supposed to check though, which is nice.
Wait what.
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