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Piplup (BW2 Revamp) [QC: 3/3] GP: [2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Gengan, Dec 9, 2012.

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  1. Gengan

    Gengan

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    [​IMG]

    I hope this thing won't miss Antartica...

    Current Stage: Ready for GP
    QC: iss, little gk, Hawkstar
    GP: SuperJOCKE, melvni

    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>Since the beginning of DPP, Piplup has maintained a niche all its own in Little Cup: being the only pure Water-type with access to Stealth Rock. That's a pretty big boon for Piplup as it means it, a Pokemon with workable defenses and only two weaknesses, can set up the most dangerous entry hazard in the entire metagame. However, that's really the only thing Piplup has going for it. Piplup has a low Speed stat, which means getting up Stealth Rock will be a challenge for it no matter what. Don't expect a lot out of Piplup, because you probably won't be getting what you want out of it if you do.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Icy Wind / Ice Beam
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Calm
    evs: 192 Def / 88 SpA / 228 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With decent defenses, Piplup can pull off a support set. The main reason to use Piplup is Stealth Rock, and Piplup can find its chances to set it up; however, it can be difficult at times due to Piplup's low Speed stat. Despite being a weak move in general, Scald is the best STAB move to use on this set due to its ability to inflict burns, despite being a weak move in general. Icy Wind combats Grass-types, while also reducing the opponent's Speed. However, Piplup will be more susceptible to being KOed due to Icy Wind's low Base Power, making Ice Beam a viable option. Toxic helps spread poison throughout the opponent's team and helps in wearing it down to make it easier for Piplup's teammates to sweep later on in the game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread and a Calm nature let Piplup hit 21 Defense and 24 Special Defense with Eviolite. This gives Piplup the most optimal defenses possible and lets it take hits easier. If you prefer a stronger STAB move, Scald can be replaced with Hydro Pump; however, this turns the set into a mostly offensive set, which is done better by Chinchou and Staryu. Other Water-types resist both of Piplup's attacks and can normally work around Toxic damage. This makes Electric-types, such as Chinchou and Magnemite, and Grass-types, such as Snover and Lileep, great teammates for Piplup as they can easily deal with these threats. Croagunk, while also being a partner that can defeat Water-types, is also an enemy to Piplup due to Dry Skin. Misdreavus makes an excellent teammate to dispose of Croagunk, while also acting as a spinblocker to keep Piplup's Stealth Rock on the field.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A set utilizing Substitute and Agility would be useful in helping Piplup sweep, but it lacks the coverage to make it work effectively. Yawn is a nice alternative to Toxic, but the two turns it requires means Piplup risks accidentally burning something with Scald before it falls asleep. Signal Beam can get a surprise hit on Psychic- and Dark-types, but they're incredibly rare. FeatherDance could be useful in patching up Piplup's weaker physical side, but the residual damage from Toxic is more appreciated. Hidden Power Grass can help prevent Water-types from ruining things for Piplup, while Hidden Power Fire can get a surprise hit on Snover and Ferroseed, but both options make it harder to deal with other threats and make the set mostly offensive, leaving Piplup largely outclassed by other Water-types.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ferroseed is the best counter to Piplup, taking little damage from Icy Wind and being able to OHKO Piplup with Bullet Seed. Chinchou and Staryu are also great counters because they resist both attacks and have a way to avoid Toxic, while being able to OHKO with Thunderbolt. In addition, Staryu is able to get rid of Stealth Rock with Rapid Spin. Magnemite is a very good counter as well for similar reasons, though it is neutral to Scald. Grass-types such as Snover, Lileep, and Foongus can all deal heavy damage with Giga Drain. Croagunk is immune to Scald and Toxic and is neutral to Ice Beam, while Mienfoo and Scraggy can hit hard from the physical side and don't mind Toxic damage.</p>

    [Unreleased]

    <p>Piplup receives Defiant from the Dream World. However, as all released Defiant Piplup have been Lv. 10 and male, the ability is not usable in Little Cup, as it is impossible to obtain a Lv. 5 Piplup with the ability. If this situation ever changes, the ability would be useful in stopping Intimidate, but since Piplup has no warrant in a physical set, Torrent is the overall preferred ability.</p>
  2. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    just some quick formatting stuff

    Remove the [] brackets around Grass in Hidden Power Grass

    Remove the ability: tag as Defiant isn't released and Torrent is therefore your only option anyway

    It's FeatherDance, not Featherdance
  3. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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  4. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    They were given as male only meaning they can't pass down their abilities for use in LC, afaik.

    Is the offensive set really worth it? The speed isn't enough to hit many Fire-types as the most common ones are fast or usually carry a Scarf not to mention that it's outsped by Sand Rushers and Diglett. It can only hit Hippopotas but nobody should let Hippo on a Water-type.

    Ferroseed should be the main counter under Grass-types as Ice Beam only hits neutrally and doesn't care about Icy Wind's Spe drop.

    Also, HP Fire in OO? It's a surprise hit on Ferro.
  5. Gengan

    Gengan

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    Unless I'm mistaken, QC wants the tag there even if there is only one usable ability. Everything else I'll change. However, I'd like more opinions on the offensive set. Fuck it, Piplup can't fight. Defensive it is.
  6. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Piplup is shit. I guess an SR set is cool, though.

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  7. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck you spin mine head right round right round
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
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    Chinchou, staryu, and lileep all shit on this set. Mention croagunk as a partner because it beats all of those. Also mention missy as a teammate because it beats gunk (which also shits on you) and is the only spinblocker that synergizes well with piplup.
    fuck piplup, man
  8. Gengan

    Gengan

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    Indeed. Added
  9. little gk

    little gk <Birkal> I will quit everything I do on smogon
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    yeah i'm fine with this
    [​IMG]
    woodchuck is a good boy
  10. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a SPL Winner

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    Go for it.

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 3/3
  11. Gengan

    Gengan

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    merry christmas to me

    I'll write this up soon
  12. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Ok, I'll GP. However, Oglemi is a fat liar.

    EDIT:

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    [Overview]

    <p>For two generations Since the beginning of DPP, Piplup has maintained a niche all of its own in Little Cup: the only pure Water-type with the ability to use Stealth Rock. That's a pretty big boon for Piplup, because as it means a Pokemon with workable defenses and only two weaknesses can set up the most dangerous entry hazard in the entire metagame. However, that's really the only thing Piplup has going for it.[add] it Piplup has bad a low Speed stat, and that which means getting up Stealth Rock will be a challenge for it no matter what. Don't expect a lot out of Piplup, because you probably won't be getting what you want out of it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Icy Wind / Ice Beam
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Calm
    evs: 192 Def / 88 SpA / 228 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With decent defenses, Piplup can successfully (contradicts what you say in the Overview) pull off a support set. The main reason to use Piplup is Stealth Rock, and very often Piplup can find its chances to set it up; however, it can be difficult at times due to its low Speed stat. Scald is the best STAB move to use on this set because of due to its ability to spread inflict burns, despite being a weak move in general. Icy Wind combats Grass-types,[add] while also reducing the opponent's Speed.[add] However, Piplup will KO'd much faster because Icy Wind is incredibly weak, so Ice Beam is a plausible alternative be more susceptible to being KOed due to Icy Wind's low Base Power, making Ice Beam a viable option thanks to its higher power and higher chance of KOing the opponent. Toxic helps spread poison throughout the opponent's team, and helps weaken them in wearing it down to make it easier for so Piplup's teammates can to sweep later on in the game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread and a Calm nature lets Piplup hit 21 Defense and 24 Sp. Defense Special Defense after with Eviolite, which.[add] This gives Piplup the most optimal defenses and lets Piplup it take hits easier. If you prefer a stronger STAB move, Scald can be replaced with Hydro Pump; however, this turns the set into a mostly offensive set, and that's outclassed which is done better by Chinchou and Staryu. Other Water-types resist both of Piplup's attacks, and can normally can work around the Toxic damage. This makes Electric-types,[add] such as Chinchou and Magnemite,[add] and or Grass-types,[add] such as Snover and Lileep,[add] great teammates for Piplup as they can easily deal with these threats. Croagunk, while also being a partner that can defeat Water-types, is also an enemy to Piplup due to Dry Skin. Misdreavus makes an excellent teammate to dispose of Croagunk, while also acting as a spinblocker to keep Piplup's Stealth Rock on the field.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A set utilizing Substitute and Agility would be useful in helping Piplup sweep, but it would need more moveslots lacks the coverage to make it work effectively. Yawn is a nice alternative to Toxic, but still coincides with the burns from Scald can cause. Signal Beam can get a surprise hit on Psychic- and Dark-types, but they're incredibly rare. FeatherDance could be useful in patching up Piplup's weaker physical side. (please give a reason to why it's not preferred) Hidden Power Grass can help prevent Water-types from walling ruining things for Piplup, while Hidden Power Fire can get a surprise hit on Snover and Ferroseed. (same thing here)</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ferroseed is the best counter to Piplup, as it resists Icy Wind and doesn't mind the Speed drop takes little damage from Icy Wind and can, while being able to OHKO Piplup with Bullet Seed; Ferroseed doesn't mind the lowering of its Speed stat either. Chinchou, Staryu, and Magnemite are also great counters answers as because they resist both at least one of Piplup's attacks (Magnemite is neutral to Scald) and have a way to avoid Toxic, while all being three are able to OHKO Piplup with Thunderbolt. In addition, Staryu is able to get rid of Stealth Rock with Rapid spin. Grass-types such as Snover, Lileep, and Foongus,[add] can all deal heavy damage with Giga Drain. Croagunk is immune to Scald and Toxic and is neutral to Ice Beam,[add] while Mienfoo and Scraggy can hit hard from the physical side, and neither mind Toxic damage.</p>

    [Unreleased]

    <p>Piplup recieves Defiant from the Dream World. This would be useful in stopping Intimidate, but since Piplup has no warrant in a physical set, Torrent is the overall preferred ability.</p> (It's released, so remove it. You can add it to OO if you want, but given this explanation and the fact it's illegal in LC play due to it being only avaiable for lv. 10 Piplup or higher, I think there's no use to)


    I made some edits to match your Overview a bit better.

    [GP]1/2[/GP]
  13. Gengan

    Gengan

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    I kinda schlepped through the implementing (plus chores kept interrupting me), so if I miss anything tell me. Implemented.
  14. cbt

    cbt voodoo mon amour
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    Show Hide
  15. Gengan

    Gengan

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    I implemented the first change, but I left the last one alone due to repetition.
  16. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Change to Copyediting js
  17. Gengan

    Gengan

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    Oops. Thanks Furai.
  18. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Good job on writing this.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [OVERVIEW] [Overview]

    <p>Since the beginning of DPP, Piplup has maintained a niche all of its own in Little Cup: being the only pure Water-type with access to Stealth Rock. That's a pretty big boon for Piplup as it means it, a Pokemon with workable defenses and only two weaknesses (add comma) can set up the most dangerous entry hazard in the entire metagame. However, that's really the only thing Piplup has going for it. Piplup has a low Speed stat, which means getting up Stealth Rock will be a challenge for it no matter what. Don't expect a lot out of Piplup, because you probably won't be getting what you want out of it if you do.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Icy Wind / Ice Beam
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Calm
    evs: 192 Def / 88 SpA / 228 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With decent defenses, Piplup can pull off a support set. The main reason to use Piplup is Stealth Rock, and Piplup it can find its chances to set it up the hazard; however, it can be difficult at times due to its Piplup's low Speed stat. Despite being a weak move in general, Scald is the best STAB move to use on this set due to its ability to inflict burns, despite being a weak move in general. Icy Wind combats Grass-types, while also reducing the opponent's Speed. However, Piplup will be more susceptible to being KOed due to Icy Wind's low Base Power, making Ice Beam a viable option thanks to its higher power and higher chance of KOing the opponent. Toxic helps spread poison throughout the opponent's team, (remove comma) and helps in wearing it down to make it easier for Piplup's teammates to sweep later on in the game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread and a Calm nature lets let Piplup hit 21 Defense and 24 Special Defense with Eviolite. This gives Piplup the most optimal defenses possible and lets it take hits easier. If you prefer a stronger STAB move, Scald can be replaced with Hydro Pump; however, this turns the set into a mostly offensive set, which is done better by Chinchou and Staryu. Other Water-types resist both of Piplup's attacks, (remove comma) and can normally work around Toxic damage. This makes Electric-types, such as Chinchou and Magnemite, and Grass-types, such as Snover and Lileep, great teammates for Piplup as they can easily deal with these threats. Croagunk, while also being a partner that can defeat Water-types, is also an enemy to Piplup due to Dry Skin. Misdreavus makes an excellent teammate to dispose of Croagunk, while also acting as a spinblocker to keep Piplup's Stealth Rock on the field.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A set utilizing Substitute and Agility would be useful in helping Piplup sweep, but it lacks the coverage to make it work effectively. Yawn is a nice alternative to Toxic, but still coincides with the burns Scald can cause the two turns it requires means Piplup risks accidentally burning something with Scald before it falls asleep. Signal Beam can get a surprise hit on Psychic- and Dark-types, but they're incredibly rare. FeatherDance could be useful in patching up Piplup's weaker physical side, but the residual damage from Toxic is more appreciated. Hidden Power Grass can help prevent Water-types from ruining things for Piplup, while Hidden Power Fire can get a surprise hit on Snover and Ferroseed, but both options make it harder to deal with other threats, (remove comma) and makes make the set mostly offensive, leaving Piplup largely outclassed by other Water-types.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ferroseed is the best counter to Piplup, takes taking little damage from Icy Wind and can being able to OHKO Piplup with Bullet Seed. Chinchou, Staryu, and Magnemite Chinchou and Staryu are also great counters because they resist both attacks (Magnemite is neutral to Scald) and have a way to avoid Toxic, while all being able to OHKO with Thunderbolt. In addition, Staryu is able to get rid of Stealth Rock with Rapid Spin. Magnemite is a very good counter as well for similar reasons, though it is neutral to Scald. Grass-types such as Snover, Lileep, and Foongus can all deal heavy damage with Giga Drain. Croagunk is immune to Scald and Toxic and is neutral to Ice Beam, while Mienfoo and Scraggy can hit hard from the physical side, (remove comma) and neither don't mind Toxic damage.</p>

    [Unreleased]

    <p>Piplup receives Defiant from the Dream World. However, as all released Defiant have been Lv. 10 and male, the ability is not usable in Little Cup, as it is impossible to obtain a Lv. 5 Piplup with the ability. If this situation ever changes, the ability would be useful in stopping Intimidate, but since Piplup has no warrant in a physical set, Torrent is the overall preferred ability.</p>
    (I'm adding your unreleased section back in with a few edits (mainly just mentioning why you can't use the ability in Little Cup), because Oglemi said you need unreleased sections for Little Cup Pokemon if the ability isn't available in Little Cup, even if the ability is released more generally; if you don't like my phrasing of why you can't use Defiant Piplup, you can use one you prefer however)


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  19. Gengan

    Gengan

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    Thanks melvni. This is done.
  20. melvni

    melvni
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    Sorry about this, but I just realized I forgot a word in the bit I added to the Unreleased section.

    Just add this in, and this should be good to good. Once again, good job!
  21. Gengan

    Gengan

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    Ah, thanks again! Now this is done.
  22. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    I don't know how to upload this so can someone please???

    edit: UPLOADED HEY YO
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