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Piplup (LC Analysis)'

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Universal Berry, May 11, 2010.

  1. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/piplup

    STATUS: READY FOR UPLOAD



    [OVERVIEW]
    <p>Piplup has always been in the shadow of other Water-type Pokémon, due to his lack of priority moves, an Electric immunity, or a Ground immunity. However, Piplup's bulk and pure Water-typing give him an advantage over his aquatic friends. He can easily survive a Diglett's Earthquake (unlike Kabuto and Chinchou), as well as weak Hidden Powers. Piplup may have some flaws, but he can be surprisingly useful; one just needs to take advantage of his strengths.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Anti-Lead Piplup
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Oran Berry / Focus Sash
    nature: Timid
    evs: 92 HP / 12 Def / 192 SpA / 200 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Piplup's bulk, great typing, and access to Stealth Rock make him a great candidate in the lead position. He easily defeats Ground- and Rock-type Pokemon, which gives him a multitude of occasions on which to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>Icy Wind is essential to this set. It allows Piplup to break the opponent's Focus Sash on turn one. Then, thanks to Icy Wind's secondary effect of lowering the opponent's Speed, Piplup can outrun the opposing lead and set up Stealth Rock or simply KO the opposing Pokemon. This move is invaluable against leads relying on their Speed to be effective, such as Meowth, Diglett, and Chimchar.</p>

    <p>The choice between Hidden Power Fire and Hidden Power Grass is a tough one. Hidden Power Fire gives Piplup the upper hand against Snover, who can otherwise cause some problems, but then leaves him completely helpless against other Water Pokemon, such as Chinchou, Squirtle, Buizel, and Horsea. Hidden Power Grass can also be used to assure the OHKO on Kabuto, Omanyte, and Barboach.</p>

    [ADDITIONNAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed and a Timid nature may seem odd for a support-inclined lead set, but the 14 Speed mark Piplup achieves is absolutely necessary. The Speed EVs allow Piplup to outspeed every Pokemon in LC, bar Choice Scarf users, after a Speed drop from Icy Wind. Apart from those important EVs, the spread is rather simple. Special Attack is maximized to get as much power as possible, while the remaining EVs are allocated to HP and Defense to increase Piplup's survivability.</p>

    <p>The item choice depends on whether you want Piplup to have more survivability or a better match-up against faster leads who might OHKO Piplup. For example, Diglett will be able to 2HKO Piplup if he isn't holding an Oran Berry. The same goes for Gligar holding a Focus Sash. For these reasons, Oran Berry is the preferred option. With Focus Sash, however, Piplup will be able to survive attacks from faster leads, such as Voltorb and Gastly, giving him the chance to use Icy Wind or to simply use Hydro Pump right away for the KO.</p>

    <p>Piplup has problems with Snover unless he is running Hidden Power Fire and Snover is not holding a Focus Sash (which is an unlikely scenario). Therefore, it would be a great idea for you to have a good Snover counter. Fire-types, such as Ponyta and Magby, make great candidates for this role, as they can switch in on Snover's STAB attacks and retaliate with Overheat or Flare Blitz. Bronzor also comes to mind, as it can easily switch into Snover and threaten him with Gyro Ball.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support Penguin
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric
    move 3: Yawn
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Oran Berry
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Bold / Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 148 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Piplup has great bulk and a good defensive typing, which gives him a lot of opportunities to set up Stealth Rock. He also has a wide support movepool, making him a great choice for such a role in Little Cup. The primary advantage of having Piplup as a support Pokemon is that he is not only able to set up Stealth Rock, but also able to counter Rain Dance sweepers, a great threat in the Little Cup metagame. Mantyke without a Life Orb will be unable to OHKO Piplup with a rain-boosted Surf or super effective Hidden Power, and Buizel's Return will also fail to KO Piplup. Other Swift Swimmers, such as Surskit, non-Life Orb Horsea, Omanyte, Kabuto, and Goldeen, will be stopped cold by Piplup's incredible bulk. However, repeated assault from the aforementioned threats will wear Piplup down.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is obviously the crux of this set. Even if it isn't as important in Little Cup as it is in the OU metagame, it is still helpful in checking Little Cup's omnipresent Choice Scarf users. It reduces the lifespan of threats such as Mantyke and Snover, as well as negating the effects of Focus Sash. However, what makes Piplup such a good user of Stealth Rock is the ability to abuse it with Yawn. Yawn is extremely useful in the Little Cup metagame because it forces switches, racking up residual damage from Stealth Rock and scouting the opposing team. Surf is there for a consistent STAB attack, although its damage output is low due to the lack of Special Attack EVs on this set. In the second slot, Hidden Power Electric is preferable to handle Swift Swimmers who will otherwise easily defeat Piplup, but Ice Beam can handle Grass-types, such as Shroomish and Paras.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The bulky EV spread maximizes Piplup's survivability. With the specified EVs, Piplup can survive two Rock Slides from Kabuto leads (three with an Oran Berry). The EVs also allow Piplup to easily survive unboosted super effective Hidden Powers from the likes of Mantyke, Horsea, and Surskit, as well as Omanyte's AncientPower and Buizel's Return.</p>

    <p>Oran Berry is by far the preferable item to increase Piplup's lifespan. It also allows Piplup to transform many opponent's 2HKOs into 3HKOs, thus giving you a great advantage over the enemy.</p>

    <p>Pairing Piplup with Pokemon able to set up Spikes (Pineco and Omanyte come to mind) is a great idea to take advantage of the switches provoked by Yawn. Also, priority users, such as Croagunk, can easily take advantage of a team weakened by entry hazards. Setup sweepers, such as Dratini, Aron, and Totodile, are very useful when it is time to take advantage of a free turn provided by Yawn, and could easily spell death to the rest of the opponent's team. On a more defensive note, having a Pokemon who can easily switch into Electric and Grass attacks is really useful to Piplup. Shroomish is thus a great partner, because he complements Piplup defensively, and can set up on Electric- or Grass-type moves aimed at the miniature penguin.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Since most of Piplup's sets require little or no set-up, the best way to provide team support for him is to get rid of his counters. Since Munchlax is one of Piplup's greatest counters, Pokemon able to take him out quickly are very useful to the blue penguin. Diglett, Trapinch, and Wynaut are able to trap and KO him easily. Strong physical attackers, such as Mankey and Machop, can also defeat Munchlax with ease. Drifloon and Duskull have enough bulk to survive multiple Pursuits and can come in on a Return or Earthquake from Munchlax and burn him. Bulky Waters can also give Piplup trouble. The best example is Chinchou, who can easily come in on a Surf or Hydro Pump and threaten Piplup with Thunderbolt. Diglett can come in on a Thunderbolt and defeat Chinchou with Earthquake. Wynaut can trap opponents with his Shadow Tag ability and OHKO them with Mirror Coat.</p>

    <p>Grass-types, such as Bulbasaur, Lileep, Paras, Bellsprout, and Shroomish, all give Piplup a hard time. Doduo can switch in on a Sleep Powder (hoping to wake up quickly with Early Bird) or Grass-type attacks without fear and threaten with Brave Bird or Drill Peck, while Mankey can switch on sleep moves with impunity (thanks to his ability, Vital Spirit) and U-turn away to scout. As mentioned earlier, another threat to Piplup in the lead position is Snover. Without Hidden Power Fire, Piplup is helpless against him. Magnemite can abuse its resistances by taking a Blizzard or Energy Ball from Snover and retaliate with Flash Cannon. Speaking of resistances, Shieldon is a great way to stop Snover, taking little damage from almost anything the frozen tree can throw at him and striking back with Stone Edge and Iron Head. Various Fire-types, such as Magby and Houndour, can come in on his STAB attacks and retaliate with a Fire attack. Makuhita can also take a Blizzard if he runs Thick Fat and fight back with Brick Break or Cross Chop.</p>

    <p>As previously mentioned, pairing Piplup with Pokemon able to take advantage of free turns, such as Dratini, Totodile, and Shroomish, can prove useful to the team, and thus should be something that you consider when you're building a team that includes Piplup.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Piplup's movepool is shallow, so he has very few options apart from the ones already listed. Still, he can run a few gimmicky sets to surprise the opponent. An Agility set could be used, but Piplup is generally outclassed by Chinchou, Mantyke, and Horsea in that area. A physical set could be used with moves such as Waterfall, Pluck, Drill Peck, Brick Break, and Rock Tomb to lure Munchlax, though Munchlax can still come out on top. A Rain Dance set could be used for support, as well as a Toxic + Protect one. On the support set, Featherdance can be useful to stop physical attackers, such as Mankey, who can switch in on Yawn with impunity. Piplup can use Substitute to ease prediction and scout for status. Also, a Choice Scarf or Specs set is usable with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Hidden Power, but again, this role is generally performed better by other bulky Waters, such as Chinchou and Mantyke.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Chinchou, Snover, and Munchlax are probably Piplup's greatest enemies. The first two can take a Hydro Pump and retaliate with a powerful STAB attack. Munchlax can also take a Hydro Pump (although Torrent- and Choice Specs-boosted attacks might leave a mark) and strike back with Return for a 2HKO. Various bulky Grass-types, such as Lileep and Shroomish, can come in on a Water-type attack or Hidden Power (although they have to be wary of Ice Beam) and strike back with a strong Seed Bomb or Energy Ball. Pokemon who are immune to Water-type attacks, such as Mantyke and Paras, can cause Piplup some problems. Most notably, Croagunk can easily come in on any of Piplup's attacks except Specs-boosted Ice Beam and KO him. Porygon can take an unboosted Hydro Pump or Surf and OHKO with Thunderbolt back. Faster Pokemon with a super effective attack, such as Gastly, Drifloon, Staryu, and Voltorb, can revenge kill Piplup.</p>
  2. Banryu

    Banryu

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    I'll skip grammar check and go onto other stuff instead here... hmm, let's see:

    ...okay, 'support bird' and 'anti-lead' both look like lead sets. :0 They even have almost identical attacks between them.... I know there are a couple key differences, but I don't know if you really need two. I think you should probably just have the Icy Wind set and title it 'Lead'.

    I sort of question Stealth Rock being slashed on the Specs set; I'd think you want to allocate all the slots possible for offensive power. :0 Just wanted to point that out, but I wouldn't change it unless someone else also tells you to... just in case.

    In the case of the Agility set, I'd either just mention it in Other Options or leave it out altogether. Being outclassed by preexisting sweepers isn't really something you want to mention, since it's basically just telling people not to use the set. :0 I'm kind of surprised that you didn't mention physical Agility Piplup; in running a physical set, it's definitely not overshadowed by other Water-type sweepers (I think?), which is a much better reason to run that, I think. Waterfall/Drill Peck/Brick Break gets great coverage, as you yourself well know.

    Also, if the EV/IV spreads do not account for Hidden Power, you should probably go back in to fix that and show us what the exact spread needed for it is.

    Oh, one more thing, gotta point out that Croagunk is a pretty nasty counter to a lot of Piplup sets, since it can switch in on Water attacks and spam priority in the form of Fake Out and Sucker Punch. Paras is also problematic for sets that run Icy Wind over Ice Beam, since it can switch in on Water attacks just like Croagunk and can status it or KO with Seed Bomb.

    Across the entire analysis, I think you should also modify the feel of the article to be a little less personalized (IE, 'it needs some love') and mostly discuss what it has that makes it unique as a Water-type in LC-- and there is a LOT that makes it different, which is great. It seems like unfamiliarity with it is the primary thing that keeps people from using Piplup, and I think your analysis will serve to counteract that... good work overall, just needs a wee bit 'o tweaking.

    Don't assume that it won't go up because you're not experienced; as long as you put the work in, that's what's important. =3=
  3. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    Thanks for the advices Banryu!

    Put the Agility set in OC and removed SR form the specs set, and exposed the reason why to use it in the Scarf set. Removed the "it needs more love". If you point out other to "personnal" things, just let me know.

    Also, Physical sets are mentionned in OC.
  4. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Formatting-wise, you have quite a bit of work to do.

    For starters, you have an opinion section which does not exist in analyses anymore (that's what the Overview is). You are also missing a bunch of </p> in Team Options. And make sure you follow the correct analysis format:

    Proper analysis format (open)
    [SET]
    name:
    move 1:
    move 2:
    move 3:
    move 4:
    item:
    ability: (omit for pokemon with only one ability)
    nature:
    evs:

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Paragraph 1 - What the set accomplishes.</p>

    <p>Paragraph 2 - What the moves on the set accomplish, and coverage of any slashes.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>OPTIONAL - Paragraph 3 - In-depth information regarding slashes that modify playstyle, or damage calculations that show the specific uses of Move X over Move Y.</p>

    <p>Paragraph 4 - EVs/Item. If the set has a simple 252/252 spread, this can largely be ignored, but anything regarding specialized or alternate EV spreads should be here. Same with item. If it's something like LO on a mixed attacker, ignore it, but if it's a slashed item or a non-standard item (BabiriTar) give it a mention here.</p>

    <p>OPTIONAL - Paragraph 5 - Playstyle Tips, or information regarding how the set should be used or played.</p>

    <p>Paragraph(s) 6/7 - Team Options, or Pokemon that work especially well with the set in question. Emphasize offensive allies for offensive Pokemon, or weakness coverage for walls.</p>


    Also make sure that you aren't including sets that are completely and utterly outclassed or simply not good. For example, Specs and Scarf sets are completely outclassed by literally every water-type, but especially by Chinchou.

    The support set has potential for the sole reason that it is the only Water-type with Stealth Rock, so you can keep it. However, this means that Stealth Rock cannot be a slash and should be emphasized. Otherwise you're outclassed by, again, everything.

    You're also missing one of Piplup's only viable sets: SubPeteya. This set is Piplup's only reasonable chance at sweeping.

    So in summary, what you need to do is:


    • Fix your analysis format for each set.
    • Add </p> to Team Options and anywhere else where they're missing.
    • Remove Opinion.
    • Remove Choice Specs.
    • Remove Choice Scarf.
    • Re-do some of the Support set to reflect Stealth Rock being important.
    • Add SubPetaya.
  5. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Heysup, I sort of discussed SubPetaya / SubLiechi with him already, and we're sort of in agreement that Sub(BoostingBerry) sets aren't all that viable in LC, due to the extremely high occurance of priority. Totodile is probably the only person this is really viable on, since he gets a STAB priority move that works well with Torrent (as Squirtle is too slow). The SubPetaya/Liechi thing will probably be a subject of debate, but otherwise, do what Heysup says.
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Also, don't refer to the positions of others sets in set comments. It is strange stylistically, and presents problems if we need to rearrange them in the future. No []'s around Hidden Power types too. "[Team Options & Counters]" is not a section, [Team Options] is. Opinion section has been replaced by overview at the top. Generally, follow heysup and banryu's advise and we'll work from there.
  7. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    Gee...

    Lotta stuff to do... =/

    Well I haven't done lots of analysis yet and the help is really appreciated. I'll keep up on it. Thanks for the advices Heysup!

    Like Banryu said, I'm really doubting about the SubPetaya set, due to all the fast scarfers and priority in Little cup. I won't do it for now, but if you got good arguments I will.

    Also, Piplup isn't the only water-type pokémon learning SR. You probably meant the only PURE water-type... In that case that's OK. =P
  8. Flora

    Flora Yep, that tasted purple!
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    Grammar/comments (open)
    You've used both "it" and "him" (like twice time for "him" though) but I'll change all of the "it" to the masculine side due to new rules.

    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>Piplup has always been in the shadow of other Water-type Pokémon, either due to the lack of priority, Electric immunity, (comma) or Ground immunity. However, Piplup's bulk and pure Water-typing gives him an advantage over his aquatic friends. It can easily survive a Diglett's Earthquake (unlike Kabuto and Chinchou) as well as weak Hidden Powers. Piplup may have some flaws (such as? I think you should say some of the flaws here specifically), but he can be surprisingly useful in our actual metagame (remove); (semi-colon) people just need to take advantage of his strengths.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Anti-Lead
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power [Grass], Hidden Power [Fire]
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Oran Berry / Focus Sash
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Timid
    evs: 92 HP / 12 Def / 192 SpA / 200 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Piplup makes a surprisingly effective lead in our actual metagame (remove). His good bulk, great typing, (comma) and access to Stealth Rock (yes, it does get Stealth Rock!) (remove) makes him a great candidate in the lead position, with (remove) being able to easily defeat solid (remove) Ground- and Rock-type Pokémon as well as having a multitude of occasions to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    Other analyzes have it as "set up" so I think it needs to be like that.

    <p>Icy Wind is essential to this set. It allows Piplup to break the opponent’s sash in turn one, then outspeed and Stealth Rock or simply KO in turn two. This move is invaluable against leads relying on their Speed to be effective such as Meowth, Diglett, (comma) and Chimchar.</p>

    <p>The choice between Hidden Power Fire or Grass is a tough one. Hidden Power Fire gives Piplup the upper hand against Snover, who Piplup has difficulties with, but then leaves you completely helpless against other Water Pokémon. (Continue on about what Hidden Power Grass does?) </p>

    [ADDITIONNAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The (remove) Max Speed and a Timid nature may seem quite (remove) weird for a support-inclined lead set, but the 14 Speed mark Piplup achieves is absolutely needed when Icy Wind is used. It allows Piplup to outspeed every Pokémon without a Scarf or a boost after they have suffered of (remove) a Speed (remove) drop.</p>

    <p>(backspace)Apart from those important EVs, the rest is rather simple. Max Special Attack for maximum power, and dump the rest is dumped (remove) into HP and Defense for survivability. Piplup had the base stats made (remove) to have a lot of EVs to spare, so if you decide to use another Hidden Power type, don't worry about the lost points and just add 4 EVs for each IV lost.</p>

    I changed the second "dump" part because when you read the first part, it's like directly at you, which was unlike the second part. It makes it a little shorter too.

    I didn't like "care" there. It sounded kinda wrong.

    <p>The item choice depends on whether you wish for more survivability or a better match-up against faster leads that might OHKO Piplup such as Voltorb and Gastly. (Maybe expand here on what the Oran Berry can do for Piplup as a lead. Describe scenarios.)</p>

    I think you need more here. All of the Additional Comments just talk about EVs and items, nothing about what teammates to help Anti-Lead Piplup succeed should something backfire or a poor match up appears. Maybe there should also be mentions of what Anti-Lead Piplup does to help the team succeed, such as removing a threat so Pokemon X can sweep better or something else.

    [SET]

    name: Support Bird
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam / Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric / Yawn
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Oran Berry
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 148 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Finally, a change of pace! (remove) Piplup has a good support movepool and typing, and thus (remove) making him a quite (remove) respectable Stealth Rock user. Surf is a reliable and powerful STAB attack, although the power loss is quite remarkable without any EVs in Special Attack. Ice Beam complements Surf quite (remove) well, but Icy Wind may be useful to slow down switch-ins, making them less likely to counter Piplup. Hidden Power (Hidden Power what? Maybe you should expand on what the two separate Hidden Powers do) may be used to complete the attacking combo, but Yawn is also available to force switches and cause general mayhem (be wary of sleep-immune Pokémon such as Mankey and Spinarak […] (remove, we don't need to try to understand that there's more)). Stealth Rock is a great move in general, but it can be swapped with a Hidden Power if you already have it on your team (Also say that this means you should be using Yawn if no Stealth Rock).</p>

    [ADDITIONNAL COMMENTS]

    (Add in stuff here, like what I said after your first set)

    [Team Options]

    <p>Since most of Piplup’s set require little to no set up, the best way to support him in a team is to get rid of his counters.</p>

    <p>Since Munchlax is one of Piplup’s greatest counter, Pokémon able to take him out quickly are very useful to the blue penguin. Diglett, Trapinch, (comma) and Wynaut are able to trap and KO him easily. Strong physical attackers such as Mankey, Machop, (comma) and Riolu can also defeat him with ease (synonym to avoid repetition). Bulky Ghost Pokémon like Drifloon and Duskull can come on a Return or Earthquake and burn it.</p>

    <p>Water immune Pokémon can stop Choiced sets cold, so having an option to deal with them is a great idea. (no Choiced set is listed except in OC... you might as well delete this paragraph) Croagunk is stopped by Gligar, who can switch on any attack but Ice Punch, and strike back with Earthquake for the kill. Paras is well-handled by sleep immune Pokémon like Mankey, who can come on a Spore and threaten with Ice Punch and, to a lesser extent, Doduo, which can come also on a Spore, hope to wake up quickly with Early Bird, and annihilate Paras with Brave Bird or Drill Peck. Mantyke and Poliwag are easily removed by Chinchou and the lesser common Mareep.</p>

    <p>Bulky Waters (changed) resistants (remove) can also give Piplup troubles. The best example is Chinchou, who can easily come on a Surf or Hydro Pump and threaten with Thunderbolt. The aforementioned Diglett can come on a Thunderbolt and kill with Earthquake and Wynaut can also trap and KO in return with Mirror Coat, or also Encore a non-damaging move such as Agility and switch to give a free turn of set up for any of your Pokémon. Wynaut can also give Piplup a free turn to use Agility (don't see the set) later in the game, when Chinchou would be gone.</p>

    <p>Other bulky Water-resists are (remove) Grass-types (remove period), such as Bulbasaur, Oddish, Chikorita, Budew, (comma) and Shroomish, (comma) all give Piplup a hard time. Doduo can switch on a Sleep Powder or Grass attack without fear and threaten with Brave Bird or Drill Peck while Mankey can switch on sleep moves and U-turn away for scouting.</p>

    <p>Another important threat to note is Snover. Without Hidden Power Fire, Piplup can do nothing to it. Magnemite can take a Blizzard or Energy Ball and retaliate with Flash Cannon due to its great resistances. Speaking of resistances, Shieldon is a great way to stop Snover, taking little damage from almost anything from him and striking back with Stone Edge and Iron Head, or Flash Cannon and Fire Blast if you are using a special set. Various Fire-types, like Magby, Houndour, (comma) and especially Vulpix can come on Snover's STAB attacks and retaliate with a Fire attack. Makuhita can also take a Blizzard if he runs Thick Fat and fight back with Brick Break or Cross Chop.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Piplup’s movepool is shallow, so he has very few options apart from the ones already listed. Still, he can run a few gimmicky sets to surprise the opponent. An Agility set could be used but it is generally outclassed by Chinchou, Mantyke, (comma) and Horsea. A physical set could be used with the various physical attacks Piplup can run, like Waterfall, Pluck / Drill Peck, Brick Break, (comma) and Rock Tomb, (comma) to lure Munchlax (remove comma) though even the sleepy Pokémon could wall it. A Rain Dance set could be used for support, as well as a Toxic + Protect one. On the support set, Featherdance can be useful to stop physical attackers, like Mankey, who thinks he can switch on a Yawn with impunity. A more serious option is a Substitute + Three attacks set to stop relying on prediction to deal damage, although the power lost will be quite major if you opt for an Oran Berry, and your lifespan will be short if you opt for Life Orb. Also, a Choice Scarf or Specs set is usable with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, (comma) and Hidden Power, but this role is generally achieved better by other bulky Waters, like Chinchou or Mantyke.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Chinchou, Snover, (comma) and Munchlax are probably Piplup’s greatest enemies. The first two can both take a Hydro Pump without suffering too much and retaliate with a powerful STAB attack. Munchlax can also take a Hydro Pump (although a Torrent- and Choice Specs-boosted one might leave a mark) and strike back with Return for a 2HKO. Various bulky Grass-types like Budew and Shroomish can come on a Choiced (remove) Water attack or Hidden Power, although they have to be wary of Ice Beam, and strike back with a powerful Seed Bomb or Energy Ball. Water-immune Pokémon like Mantyke can cause Piplup some problems, but he is nowhere like the danger Croagunk represents. The poisonous frog (or whatever it is) (remove) can easily come on any attack except Specs-boosted Ice Beam when at full health and spam Fake Out and Vacuum Wave or Sucker Punch for the KO. Porygon can take an unboosted Hydro Pump or Surf and Thunderbolt back. Faster Pokémon with a super effective attack, like Gastly, Drifloon, Staryu, and Voltorb, can come after a KO and eliminate Piplup.</p>
  9. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    Thanks for all the infos AromaFlora!

    However, since Pip is in the lead position, I don't think it removes specific threats since nearly every lead in LC is meant either set SR and Die or prevent Stealth Rock, cause some damage and die.
  10. macle

    macle ribbit
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    Just wondering how much does HP Fire do to Snover? It never says in the analysis if it ohkos it

    also is budew really that bulky? I've never seen one used but I don't believe it to be really bulky..








  11. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    Okay, I edited most of the analysis with the correction Aroma brought me (thank you <3).

    Now, I just have to finish the Additional Comments paragraph for the Support Set. I'll do that later, but i'll keep up on it. Thanks for the help everyone!
  12. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    263
    I FINISHED EVERYTHING!

    Well, I hope so. Sorry for the double-post, I just wanted to make a new comment so the thread would be bold so it would attract your attention so you would see i'm actually finished.

    EDIT: Budew has a base 70 sp def, so yeah, it can take Surf and Hydro Pump and Hidden Powers without too much trouble.
  13. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    Bump: I need some corrections please.
  14. Draco Zephyr

    Draco Zephyr

    Joined:
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    Grammar-Prose Check 1/3:
    While this analysis isn't too bad in terms of grammar (considering that English is your second language), I'm going to have it require two more GP checks before it can be completely approved.

    remove anything in red
    add/keep anything in blue
    Copy/paste this into the OP and delete everything in red. Nice job on the analysis.
    [​IMG]
  15. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

    Joined:
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    Thanks a lot Draco!

    Although i cant correct now since i dont have much time, you can be sure ill finish that tomorrow.

    EDIT: Wynaut isnt uber.

    EDIT2: Finished with the first correction, awaiting for the Grammar check number two. But the fact is, im leaving tomorrow for some days and i wont have access to a computer, so the analysis might be dead for a few days, although you can be sure that as soon as I return, I'll correct the whole thing.
  16. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

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    Bump. I need some corrections please.
  17. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Changes are in bold and removals in red.

    [​IMG]

    GP Check 2/3

    I think it would be good for someone who knows something about LC to have a look at this before upload. (edit - uploading mod should be fine in this respect actually)
  18. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

    Joined:
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    I support slashing HP Fire before HP Grass on the lead set. Snover is a very common lead, more common than DOUBLE Kabuto, Omanyte, and Barboach combined. Also, STAB Hydro Pump does a number on all of them. (Need a calculator...)
  19. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

    Joined:
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    Honestly, most Snover Leads run Sash anyways, so even if you're able to hurt them a lot, you still lose. You better switch to a counter in that case.

    EDIT: Second grammar check done, need a last check and a verification by a LC expert before uploading.
  20. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    pink is grammar edits/comments
    blue is prose/content edits


    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>Piplup has always been in the shadow of other Water-type Pokémon, due to his lack of priority moves, an Electric immunity, or a Ground immunity. However, Piplup's bulk and pure Water-typing gives him an advantage over his aquatic friends. He can easily survive a Diglett's Earthquake (unlike Kabuto and Chinchou), as well as weak Hidden Powers. Piplup may have some flaws, but he can be surprisingly useful; one just needs to take advantage of his strengths.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Anti-Lead Piplup
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Oran Berry / Focus Sash
    nature: Timid
    evs: 92 HP / 12 Def / 192 SpA / 200 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Piplup's bulk, great typing, and access to Stealth Rock make him a great candidate in the lead position. He easily defeats Ground- and Rock-type Pokémon, which gives him a multitude of occasions on which to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>Icy Wind is essential to this set. It allows Piplup to break the opponent’s Focus Sash on turn one. Then, thanks to Icy Wind's secondary effect of lowering the opponent's Speed, Piplup can outrun the opposing lead and set up Stealth Rock or simply KO the opposing Pokemon. This move is invaluable against leads relying on their Speed to be effective, such as Meowth, Diglett, and Chimchar.</p>

    <p>The choice between Hidden Power Fire and Hidden Power Grass is a tough one. Hidden Power Fire gives Piplup the upper hand against Snover, with whom Piplup has difficulties, but then leaves him completely helpless against other Water Pokémon, such as Chinchou, Squirtle, Buizel, and Horsea. Hidden Power Grass can also be used to assure the OHKO on Kabuto, Omanyte, and Barboach.</p>

    [ADDITIONNAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed and a Timid nature may seem odd for a support-inclined lead set, but the 14 Speed mark Piplup achieves is absolutely needed. The Speed EVs allow Piplup to outspeed every Pokémon in LC bar Choice Scarf users after a Speed drop from Icy Wind. Apart from those important EVs, the spread is rather simple. Special Attack is maximized to get as much power as possible, while the remaining EVs are allocated to HP and Defense to increase Piplup's survivability.</p>

    <p>The item choice depends on whether you want Piplup to have more survivability or a better match-up against faster leads who might OHKO Piplup. For example, Diglett will be able to 2HKO Piplup if the latter isn't holding an Oran Berry. The same goes for Gligar holding a Focus Sash. For these reasons, Oran Berry is the preferred option. With Focus Sash, however, Piplup will be able to survive attacks from faster leads such as Voltorb and Gastly, giving him the chance to use Icy Wind or simply Hydro Pump right away for the KO.</p>

    <p>Piplup has problems with Snover unless he isis running Hidden Power Fire and Snover is not holding a Focus Sash (which is an unlikely scenario). Therefore, it would be a great idea for you to have a good Snover counter. Fire-types such as Ponyta and Magby make great candidates for this role, as they can switch in on Snover's STAB attacks and retaliate with Overheat or Flare Blitz. Bronzor also comes to mind, as it can easily switch into Snover and threaten him with Gyro Ball or start setting up.</p>

    [SET]
    name
    : Support Penguin
    move 1: Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric
    move 3: Yawn
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Oran Berry
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Bold / Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 148 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Piplup has great bulk and a good defensive typing, which gives him a lot of opportunities to set up Stealth Rock. He also has a wide support movepool, making him a great support Pokemon in LC. The primary advantage of having Piplup as a support Pokemon is that he is not only able to set up Stealth Rock, but also to counter Rain Dance sweepers, a great threat in the Little Cup metagame. Mantyke without a Life Orb will be unable to OHKO Piplup with a rain-boosted Surf or super effective Hidden Power, and Buizel's Return will also fail to KO Piplup. Other Swift Swimmers, such as Surskit, non-Life Orb Horsea, Omanyte, Kabuto, and Goldeen will be stopped cold by Piplup's incredible bulk. However, repeated assault from the aforementioned threats will wear Piplup down.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is obviously the crux of this set. Even if it isn't as important in LC as it is in the OU metagame, it is still helpful in checking LC's omnipresent Choice Scarf users. It reduces the lifespan of threats such as Mantyke and Snover, as well as negating the effects of Focus Sash. However, what makes Piplup such a good user of Stealth Rock is the ability to abuse it with Yawn. Yawn is extremely useful in the Little Cup metagame because it forces switches, racking up residual damage from Stealth Rock and scouting the opposing team. Surf is there for a consistent STAB attack, although its damage output is low due to the lack of Special Attack EVs on this set. In the second slot, Hidden Power Electric is preferable to handle Swift Swimmers who will otherwise easily defeat Piplup, but Ice Beam can handle Grass-types like Shroomish and Paras.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The bulky EV spread maximizes Piplup's survivability. With the specified EVs, Piplup can survive two Rock Slides from Kabuto leads (three with an Oran Berry). The EVs also allow Piplup to easily survive unboosted super effective Hidden Powers from the likes of Mantyke, Horsea, and Surskit, as well as Omanyte's AncientPower and Buizel's Return.</p>

    <p>Oran Berry is by far the preferable item to increase Piplup's lifespan. It also allows Piplup to transform opponents' 2HKOs into 3HKOs, thus giving you a great advantage over the enemy.</p>

    <p>Pairing Piplup with Pokémon able to set up Spikes (Pineco, Omanyte, and Budew come to mind) is a great idea to take advantage of the switches provoked by Yawn. Also, priority users such as Croagunk can easily take advantage of a team weakened by entry hazards. Setup sweepers like Dratini, Aron, and Totodile are very useful when it is time to take advantage of a free turn provided by Yawn, and could easily spell death to the rest of the opponent's team. On a more defensive note, having a Pokemon who can easily switch into Electric and Grass attacks is really useful to Piplup. Shroomish is thus a great partner, because he complements Piplup defensively, and can set up on Electric or Grass moves aimed at the miniature penguin.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Since most of Piplup's sets require little or no set-up, the best way to provide team support for him is to get rid of his counters. Since Munchlax is one of Piplup's greatest counters, Pokémon able to take him out quickly are very useful to the blue penguin. Diglett, Trapinch, and Wynaut are able to trap and KO him easily. Strong physical attackers such as Mankey, Machop, and Riolu can also defeat Munchlax with ease. Bulky Ghost-type Pokémon like Drifloon and Duskull can come in on a Return or Earthquake from Munchlax and burn him.</p>

    <p>Bulky Waters can also give Piplup trouble. The best example is Chinchou, who can easily come in on a Surf or Hydro Pump and threaten Piplup with Thunderbolt. Diglett can come in on a Thunderbolt and defeat Chinchou with Earthquake. Wynaut can trap opponents with his Shadow Tag ability and OHKO them with Mirror Coat.</p>

    <p>Grass-types, such as Bulbasaur, Oddish, Chikorita, Budew, and Shroomish all give Piplup a hard time. Doduo can switch in on a Sleep Powder (hoping to wake up quickly with Early Bird) or Grass attacks without fear and threaten with Brave Bird or Drill Peck, while Mankey can switch on sleep moves with impunity (thanks to his ability, Vital Spirit) and U-turn away to scout.</p>

    <p>As mentioned earlier, another threat to Piplup is Snover. Without Hidden Power Fire, Piplup is helpless against him. Magnemite can abuse its resistances by taking a Blizzard or Energy Ball from Snover and retaliating with Flash Cannon. Speaking of resistances, Shieldon is a great way to stop Snover, taking little damage from almost anything the frozen tree can throw at him and striking back with Stone Edge and Iron Head. Various Fire-types, like Magby, Houndour, and especially Vulpix, can come in on his STAB attacks and retaliate with a Fire attack. Makuhita can also take a Blizzard if he runs Thick Fat and fight back with Brick Break or Cross Chop.</p>

    <p>As previously mentioned, pairing Piplup with Pokémon able to take advantage of free turns, like Dratini, Totodile, and Shroomish, can prove useful to the team, and thus should be something that you consider when you're building a team that includes Piplup.</p>

    (I dont think you know how choppy the Team Options section looks with the six short paragraphs all scattered. I combined the first and second paragraph for you, but I would think about going back and revising the Team Options section and trying to possibly turn it into like three paragraphs or something. it just looks really uneven right now imo and while it isnt *that* important, I think its worth doing)

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Piplup's movepool is shallow, so he has very few options apart from the ones already listed. Still, he can run a few gimmicky sets to surprise the opponent. An Agility set could be used, but Piplup is generally outclassed by Chinchou, Mantyke, and Horsea in that area. A physical set could be used with moves like Waterfall, Pluck, Drill Peck, Brick Break, and Rock Tomb to lure Munchlax, though he could still wall it. A Rain Dance set could be used for support, as well as a Toxic + Protect one. On the support set, Featherdance can be useful to stop physical attackers, like Mankey, who can switch in on Yawn with impunity. Piplup can use Substitute to ease prediction and scout for status. Also, a Choice Scarf or Specs set is usable with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Hidden Power, but this role is generally performed better by other bulky Waters like Chinchou and Mantyke.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Chinchou, Snover, and Munchlax are probably Piplup's greatest enemies. The first two can take a Hydro Pump and retaliate with a powerful STAB attack. Munchlax can also take a Hydro Pump (although Torrent- and Choice Specs-boosted attacks might leave a mark) and strike back with Return for a 2HKO. Various bulky Grass-types like Budew and Shroomish can come in on a Water-type attack or Hidden Power (although they have to be wary of Ice Beam) and strike back with a strong Seed Bomb or Energy Ball. Pokémon like Mantyke, who are immune to Water-type attacks, can cause Piplup some problems. Most notably, Croagunk can easily come in on any of Piplup's attacks except Specs-boosted Ice Beam and KO him. Porygon can take an unboosted Hydro Pump or Surf and Thunderbolt back. Faster Pokémon with a super effective attack, like Gastly, Drifloon, Staryu, and Voltorb, can revenge kill Piplup.</p>


    Some of your "</p>" tags were messed up at the end of your paragraphs, but I fixed them for you; great job ^_^
  21. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Just want to let the op know that they should add in Snorlaxe's changes. Then, I will give one last GP sweep, mk?
  22. Universal Berry

    Universal Berry

    Joined:
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    263
    Added the changes by Snorlaxe, thanks a bunch!

    Joined some paragraphs in the Team Options so it looks more organized. If it doesnt look good, let me know.

    A last GP check by Dr. Reid is needed as well as a verification by an LC expert (ill contact Vader).

    thanks a lot everyone!
  23. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

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    GP CHECK 3/3
    [​IMG]

    Additions in Bold, Deletions in Red
    Show Hide




    Great job, one thing to note is just that Pokemon should be without the accent.
  24. kingdra22

    kingdra22

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    235
    Red-Delete
    Green- Add/Change
    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>Piplup has always been in the shadow of other Water-type Pokémon,[removed comma if that was hard to see.] due to his lack of priority moves, an Electric- or Ground- type immunity. However, Piplup's bulk and pure Water-typing gives him an advantage over his aquatic friends. He can easily survive a Diglett's Earthquake (unlike Kabuto and Chinchou), as well as weak Hidden Powers. Piplup may have some flaws, but he can be surprisingly useful; one just needs to take advantage of his strengths.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Anti-Lead Piplup
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Icy Wind
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    item: Oran Berry / Focus Sash
    nature: Timid
    evs: 92 HP / 12 Def / 192 SpA / 200 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Piplup's bulk, great typing, and access to Stealth Rock make him a great candidate in the lead position. He easily defeats Ground- and Rock-type Pokémon.[changed to period] This gives him a lot of opportunity to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>Icy Wind is essential to this set. It usually allows Piplup to break the opponent’s Focus Sash on turn one. Then, thanks to Icy Wind's secondary effect of lowering the opponent's Speed, Piplup can outrun the opposing lead and set up Stealth Rock or simply KO it. This move is invaluable against leads relying on their Speed to be effective, such as Meowth[I wouldn't say Meoth because he uses Fake Out, unless I'm missing something], Diglett, and Chimchar.</p>

    <p>The choice between Hidden Power Fire and Hidden Power Grass is a tough one. Hidden Power Fire gives Piplup the upper hand against Snover, with whom Piplup has difficulties, but then leaves him completely helpless against other Water Pokémon, such as Chinchou, Squirtle, Buizel, and Horsea. Hidden Power Grass can also be used to assure the OHKO on Kabuto, Omanyte, and Barboach.</p>

    [ADDITIONNAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed and a Timid nature may seem odd for a support-inclined lead set, but the 14 Speed mark Piplup achieves is absolutely needed. The Speed EVs allow Piplup to outspeed every Pokémon in LC bar Choice Scarf users after a Speed drop from Icy Wind. Apart from those important EVs, the spread is rather simple. Special Attack is maximized to get as much power as possible, while the remaining EVs are allocated to HP and Defense to increase Piplup's survivability.</p>

    <p>The item choice depends on whether you want Piplup to have more survivability or a better match-up against faster leads who might OHKO Piplup. For example, Diglett will be able to 2HKO Piplup if the latter isn't holding an Oran Berry. The same goes for Gligar holding a Focus Sash. For these reasons, Oran Berry is the preferred option. With Focus Sash, however, Piplup will be able to survive attacks from faster leads such as Voltorb and Gastly, giving him the chance to use Icy Wind or simply Hydro Pump right away for the KO.</p>

    <p>Piplup has problems with Snover unless he isis [I understand that it's a typo. Just thought I'd point that out.] running Hidden Power Fire and Snover, count on luck, is not holding a Focus Sash (which is an unlikely scenario). Therefore, it would be nice for you to have a good Snover counter. Fire-types such as Ponyta and Magby make great candidates for this role, as they can switch in on Snover's STAB attacks and retaliate with Overheat or Flare Blitz. Bronzor also comes to mind, as it can easily switch into Snover and threaten him with Gyro Ball or start setting up.</p>

    Have time for only one set :( [And the Overview for that matter)
  25. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    @ Kingdra22 - we appreciate the attempt to check grammar but really most the changes you have suggested are at best unnecessary, and at worst incorrect. You do not need to make changes just to prove that you have proofread the analysis. If you find few or no errors, feel free to say so rather than creating extra work for the analysis writer.

    It would also be good if you waited until the previous check had been implemented. To avoid checking things at the same time as someone else, use a placeholder.

    This is almost certainly ready for upload once Dr Reid's changes have been implemented.

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