1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pissing in the Wind (BW2 Sun Team)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Mazz, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. Mazz

    Mazz Might make a comeback
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    975
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Since everyone and their mother is running a Rain team because if the hype caused by all the new toys it got, I've chosen to run a different weather, hence the title; Pissing in the Wind. Maintaining my weather will be harder than ever, and I'm looking forward to that challenge. This team has had a lot of success so far, and I hope things continue that way.

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales | Air Balloon
    Drought | Modest Nature
    136 HP | 252 SAtk | 120 Spd
    Sunny Day | SolarBeam | Fire Blast | Will-O-Wisp


    If there's sun outside of Ubers, Ninetales is the cause for it. I'm currently running a Sunny Day Ninetales to just dick with slow Tyranitar and Politoed, getting my weather back up on them. Solarbeam then proceeds to hit Politoed, and Tyranitar after I've burned it with Will-O-Wisp. Fire Blast is there for STAB and a solid hit backed by Drought. Pretty standard if you'd ask me, and not my favourite of the weather setters, but it works.

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine | Life Orb
    Thick Fat | Jolly Nature
    252 Atk | 252 Spd | 4 HP
    Ice Shard | Icicle Crash | Earthquake | Superpower


    Other than going against the weather norm, I wanted to use a Mamoswine on my team. It's got amazing offensive typing, and should be handy with all the Dragon-type and Flying-type threats running around. Ice Shard is specifically for them and weakened threats, bypassing Mamoswines 280-some Speed stat. Icicle Crash is STAB and one hell of a hit when backed by Life Orb. Multiscale Dragonite is still OHKO'd at full health with it. Earthquake is also STAB, hitting things like Heatran and Infernape, who would otherwise take piss-poor damage from Icicle Crash. Superpower is being used to hit Pokemon with an Air Balloon that would have normally just come in on a CB Earthquake.

    [​IMG]
    Venusaur | Life Orb
    Chlorophyll | Modest Nature
    252 SAtk | 252 Spd | 4 HP
    2 Atk | 30 SAtk | 30 Spd
    Sleep Powder | Giga Drain | Hidden Power Fire | Growth


    Dear Game Freak. You finally did something right for once. Signed, Pokemazter. IT GOT GIGA DRAIN. FUCK YES. This changes things really. It takes what was once a threatening set to a FUCK HOW DO I KILL IT??? set. No longer does it need Synthesis to heal, Giga Drain does roughly the same damage as Energy Ball and recover's his HP. Sleep Powder is there to cripple a threat, Growth to quickly set up, and Hidden Power Fire to hit Scizor, Ferrothorn, and the lot.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence | Choice Scarf
    Moxie | Naive Nature
    252 Spd | 252 Atk | 4 SAtk
    Outrage | Earthquake | Brick Break | Fire Blast


    Another one of those Pokemon I really wanted to run on a team, but never actually made a team for, Salamence is the cornerstone revenge killer of the team. He shows up, smashes a 'mon, rinse, repeat. Outrage is STAB, and once all steel types are gone, usually my trump card. Earthquake, Brick Break, and Fire Blast are all there for coverage, most notably against Steel-types such as Heatran, Magnezone, and Ferrothorn.

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio | Focus Sash
    Arena Trap | Jolly Nature
    4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    Stealth Rock | Earthquake | Reversal | Stone Edge


    With Sandstorm still being a mild competitor in the weather war, I needed something to trap Tyranitar. Dugtrio was that Pokemon. It's also handy for picking off a weakened Politoed, granting the team permanent Sun. A Focus Sash set is used to maintain the presence of Stealth Rock, and be able to come in on the revenge kill against Terrakion. Earthquake hits Rock, Steel, Fire, and Electric-types for some decent damage. Reversal hits Tyranitar wickedly strong, and is handy for Pokemon using an Air Balloon. Stone Edge is a filler move that could prove useful against things like Tornadus-T.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie | Leftovers
    Natural Cure | Timid Nature
    236 HP |72 SpA | 200 Spe
    Scald | Thunderbolt | Rapid Spin | Recover


    With Rain teams found left, right, and center, I needed something to beat them. Because Forretress was one of the expendable Pokemon on the team, it was replaced with a Pokemon still capable of utilizing Rapid Spin while providing some pressure to Rain Teams. That Pokemon is Starmie. Scald is there to burn things and gain a boost from Rain, while Thunderbolt hurts most of the sweepers found on a Rain Team. Recover maintains staying power, and Rapid Spin is Rapid Spin.

    So yeah. That there's the team I'm currently screwing around with on Showdown. I've listed a couple issues the team has below, and need suggestions to fix them. Thanks for the read!


    Those mentioned issues...

    [​IMG] - Terrakion
    Well, mostly it's just the Scarf sets I have issues with, but a better overall answer to those with Substitute and/or Rock Polish would be appreciated too. Venusaur just really isn't fast enough with Modest and running Timid is just kinda dumb. Dugtrio can handle them on a revenge kill, but it can still be a pain in the ass. Any suggestions?​

    [​IMG] - Mamoswine
    Half of my team is Ice-type weak, and another is Ground-type weak. It makes deploying a sweep with either Venusaur or Salamence ridiculously difficult, and can basically sweep my entire team if played right. Starmie's really the only thing that can attempt to beat it, and I need this fixed.​

    [​IMG] - Politoed / Rain Teams
    Despite the initial relief, Rain teams still provide themselves as a massive pain in the ass. They require a heavy amount of working around, usually via status from Ninetales on Politoed, then immediately switching to Starmie. Another issue I'd like solving.​

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. i Darky

    i Darky

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    21
    Running Dugtrio over Heatran is a viable option. A Choice-Banded Set would be preferred, it can pick off a weakened Politoad and KO Tyranitar, allowing you to usually win the weather war. Sun is just one of those weathers where you pretty much have to win the weather war to be successful. Also, like your Heatran does, he can KO opposing Heatran. Other than that, I don't see many other issues
  3. Doom Dawg

    Doom Dawg

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    69
    You are a BOSS! Your team is REALLY similar to mine. The Magma Storm is a strategy I use in my MonoSteel team hahaha. That is really BOSS. There is a way of shutting down stuff that setup on you though, you could use Overheat and Power Swap on your Ninetales, making it more useful. Let's be sincere an OFFENSIVE tyranitar takes something like 40% from solarbeam right? Use this set as it helps against the gay genies and against Politoed, when it comes to check you with drizzle you will hit him with overheat doing like 10%. Than you will use Power Swap andhis Politoed will be rendered useless or close to it...

    You could easily ditch Icicle Crash of you are running Max Atk Mamoswine! You could also try a set which I have been myself trying on a Rain Dance team, it is the Endeavor Mamo. It works 70% of the time. I will make one or two modifications to adjust to your team.

    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Thick fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Endeavor
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    At full health this guarantees you one kill minimum. Endeavor than ice shard... If there is stealth rock the job is easier... Since the opponent cannot switch.

    Starmie looks like it would handle the job of spinning better than Forretress, well that is your choice, but I would run Starmie in your case.

    PS: Not to say this was biased I use on my team Ninetales, Donphan, Dragonite, Volcarona, Venusaur and Heatran. Well I am testing Breloom, Mamoswine and Starmie. They are all good additions to teams.
  4. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    573
    Hey,
    This is a really good team, can't see many faults. However I would suggest using Life Orb > Choice Band and Superpower > Stone Edge on Mamoswine. One of the main reasons to use Stone Edge over Superpower is Gyarados and he won't be doing much to your team anyway. Superpower lets you hit annoying Air Balloon users such as Heatra and Metagross and Life Orb means less free switch ins from Gengar/ other floating pokemon once your locked into earthquake. I saw your weakness to Choice Scarf Scarf Terrakion and Also noted was that you utilize all 3 hazard forms, yet you have no way to protect them. So you may want to switch Salamence for a Choice Scarf / SubSplit Gengar. He protects your hazards and the Choice Scarf set lets you beat the most common spinner in Starmie, and also means you dont lose a revenge killer but SubSplit is probably better for getting past stuff like Blissey which also annoys your main sweeper in Venusaur, forming a good One, Two Punch to the opponents walls.
    GL with the team, Gengar set Below
    Show Hide

    Gengar @ Choice Scarf/ Life Orb
    Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)
    Trait: Levitate
    EV's: 4Def / 252SpA / 252Spd
    -Thunderbolt / Substitute
    -HP [FIRE] / Pain Split
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -
  5. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,757
    I would replace Choice Band with Life Orb on Mamoswine. You really don't want your opponent having a free turn to set up when you're locked into an earthquake, or a weak ice shard.

    Additionally, Ferrothorn seems to magnify your weaknesses to a lot of potential threats. I would replace it with Starmie to better handle rain teams. Starmie allows you to rapin spin efficiently, not worry about toxic spikes at all (thanks to natural cure and venusaur), and you will definitely have more opportunities to spin due to Starmie's high speed, and access to recover. You do lose out on the hazards helping your Mamo/Mence lose out on KO's, but it gives you a much better matchup against common teams. And Starmie is capable of weakening those pokemon enough to where spikes/tspikes hazards would not have mattered (although thats wishful thinking).

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 236 HP / 72 SAtk / 200 Spd
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Thunderbolt

    Scald on a sun team is unorthodox, but there will definitely be occasions where you want to get the burn on something, or when you don't have the sun up.
  6. Mazz

    Mazz Might make a comeback
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    975
    That makes sense to me. Alongnside Starmie, suggested by Chimpakt, the two of them really help patch up my weakness to other weathers. I'll run Dugtrio over Heatran, but it'll be a focus sash set to maintain the presence of Stealth Rock.

    I'm not sold with the Overheat suggestion for Ninetales. I rarely keep it out against Tyranitar unless I know its a slow set, where I can burn it and just cripple it. From a general consensus, LO Mamoswine seems to be able to help the team more. I'm not fond of Endeavor personally, I believe it's too risky of a play, and would rather see a strategy like that used on something like Dugtrio, where it's so fast that priority is really the only thing that outpaces it. I'll swap Mamoswine's set for a LO set.

    I'm totally cool with using LO Mamoswine over Choice Band. The reasoning you gave is solid. However, I will not replace Salamence for Gengar. Blissey is not a threat to this team in any way, as both Salamence and Mamoswine take a dump on it. If I can force it to be the last Pokemon, then Venusaur beats it one-on-one, 2HKOing with Giga Drain at +6.

    I'm going to assume that's a Timid nature and 200 Spe EVs? Regardless, it helps with Rain Teams, and I only manage 1 or 2 layers of Spikes per game, so losing out on that isn't much of an issue.

    Thanks all of you for the rates. OP updated.
  7. Mazz

    Mazz Might make a comeback
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    975
    Bumping the team. Mamoswine is a huge threat to this team. Terrakion and Rain teams still really aren't all that fun to play against either.
  8. DaRkRaii

    DaRkRaii

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    108
    I always think the 3 best counters to rain are:
    Celebi
    Virizion
    Rotom-W

    Why you may ask? Well for starters, they all resist water STAB which is basically what the benefit of using rain is for. Celebi benefits because it sets up on one of the most common rain abusers in Keldeo. Virizion very similar, but arguably better due to the fact it can pose a threat based on the set used (Physical/Special) and it has superior Special defence over the other two. Rotom-W is a totally different factor in countering rain. Just by its presence it can create offensive pressure (Volt Switch), gets a benefit immensely with its Hydro Pump in the rain and Counters the two biggest threats rain has to offer : Keldeo and Tornadus-T. Both are at risk of being OHKO'd by Rotom's STAB electric moves and Rotom is commonly scarfed, so no way in hell are they outspeeding hoping get any immense hacks.


    Its a situation of pick your poison really. Terrakion will always pose a threat no matter what, due to the nature of its playstyle, you would probably have to sacrifice a Pokemon on your team for a Gliscor/Skarmory.

    But you have a very solid team here. I have recently found sun to be better than I thought actually.

    I have been testing a team with
    Ninetales
    Volcarona
    Skarmory
    Chansey
    Lucario
    Forretress
    And it has had amazing success, and I sometimes steam roll past rain teams thanks to a surprise Lucario sweep. As long as at least rocks are up, once Lucario is at +2 he basically either demolishes a Rain team or takes a big enough chunk where I can pave the way for easy Volcarona set up.
  9. Mazz

    Mazz Might make a comeback
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    975
    The issue is more or less the Hurricane Spam, which my team has little to no preparation for. Surf and Hydro Pump are taken easily by Starmie and Venusaur, but even then, it still poses a bit of a threat.

    You're really not helping. What do I replace to make room for Gliscor / Rotom-W? I know they work to beat Terrakion / Rain teams respectively, but I really don't know what to drop here.
  10. Rwhite84

    Rwhite84

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    133
    Hey maz, a few suggestions

    Since it's in the sun starmie has a lot more use out of hidden power fire, thunderbolt and scald are walled by too many pokemon in the sun you could try replacing either scald or recover depends on your priority

    Second I would suggest dragon claw over brick break on salamence since the amount of times brick break is actually needed are miniscule and stopping from outraging can be very useful at times

    Hope I could help

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)