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Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.
yes got the silver token for the factory, after that I got raped by a tauros of all things...
Not sure what you meant by that. Tauros is quite a big threat to many pokemon. It's fast and attacks somewhat hard (can 2HKO many pokemon), with decent defenses and potentially with Intimidate.
For me, I don't think I will be playing a whole lot of Frontier in the next short while.
EDIT: @EonADS: Did you have Rock Tomb specifically for Weavile? Because if I calculated correctly it's like 74% chance of winning with Rock Tomb + Extremespeed (92.5% chance of no freeze (or freeze+same turn thaw out) from ice punch * 80% chance of Rock Tomb = 74%). Rock Tomb + ES always 2HKOs.
Crap, I completely jinxed myself on Dragonite, Argenta's Pokemon was Weavile :(
So now, I'm going to use a different Pokemon that only one person on the list has used.
I want to try out a Sandstorm Doubles Team in the various Battle arenas, and had a few questions.
Here's what I want to bring:
I want to use Gliscor as a Baton Passer. How does this moveset look?
I was thinking my first two pokes would be Tyranitar and Gliscor. Gliscor would either pass to Rhyperior or Empoleon.
Would it ever be worth it to pass Harden or Agility to either Rhyperior or Empoleon? Rhyperior is crazy slow, but maybe it might speed Empoleon so that it could hit first.
Are there any other stat enhancing moves, that Gliscor can learn, that I should use?
How many stat enhancing moves can I expect to play before passing?
What would a good EV spread be for a Gliscor like this?
As far as EV training goes, both my Empoleon (my starter pokemon), and my Rhyperior were never trained. I just used them to play the game. Is my best bet just to give them the appropriate berries to lose EVs and then train them? Are good IV's essential to get the gold print?
I'm not expecting any record streaks, but I would like to get the gold!
I got my Gold Print in Battle Tower today :D I figure mostly because I'm aiming for 100 to get the star, 50 isn't such an accomplishment anymore. I dunno if I should post the team I'm using cause it's not all that special. Standard DD Gyarados, I give it a Lum Berry so it gets an extra DD if something tries to status it, Latios @Life Orb, it's got Calm Mind/Recover but I'm really tempted to screw that and just give it 4 offensive moves cause it rarely gets a chance to set up (especially with f'n crits ruining my strategy) and finally Registeel. I gave it Toxic/EQ/Curse/Iron Head, but I have trouble against bulky waters like Lapras and Walrien so I've been thinking of swapping Iron Head for Brick Break or Superpower.
Well, I would swap it out but after I got the Gold Print I came up against Regirock, Articuno and Zapdos on Battle 55. I never really considered my Regirock weakness until now, Thunderpunch OHKOs Gyardos, Ice Punch takes out Latios, Drain Punch not only hurts Registeel but allows the enemy to replenish serious health. If I was thinking clearly I could've swapped between Registeel and Gyarados utilising Intimidate but I went ahead with Waterfall hoping for the flinch that never came. Latios just about took down Regirock (fainting from Life Orb recoil after an Ice Punch) and it was down to Registeel to take care of the rest. I Toxicked Articuno and started Cursing, for some reason it didn't use Hail/Blizzard but kept spamming Fly. After 2/3 Curses I thought I'd try and hit it with Iron Head which actually KOed it (also turned out to be my biggest mistake.) Zapdos came out and Rain Danced before shooting off full powered Thunders. Had I of Cursed once more I would've won, but just as I was about to take Zapdos with one last Iron Head it got a Crit and that was that.
So I've decided I'm not wasting x hours of my life losing out to a Critical Hit and if I can ever be bothered I will go make an Explosion team and hax my own way to a very tainted Trainer Star.
Too bad I can't do that for the ever impossible Battle Factory :(
Oh and to the guy who told me to trade my Garchomp on GTS I don't have wi-fi >.< I can stand in the middle of the street and steal it if I'm desperate for a mystery gift but I don't have the balls to stand there long enough to trade Pokémon and look freaky D'; I'll just wait half a year until Gible start appearing at the Safari Zone B]
I wouldn't use a Gliscor personally. And having 3 pokes weak to water and 2 weak, 2 neutral to grass is not good synergy.
Tbh the best baton passer, especially in doubles, is smeargle. Dark void, any stat up move you want (including belly drum), and substitute is sexy. I appricate that smeargle is a pain to train, but its' you best bet. If you don't like it, ninjask is quite good too.
But I must also point out here that doubles baton passing is very risky, you should not base your stratergy on it. TRE has shown that against the AI, explosion + a ghost w/ destiny bond is very effective. If not that, maybe stratergy based around weather, pure offensive synergy, trait swapping (slaking) would probably be more reliable that baton passing against the AI.
It's hard to say scrap the idea after you've Ev trained and all, but i would. If you are adamant on baton passing, definitly go down the route of passing offensive (+maybe speed) to a hard hitting teamate with a move that hits both enemies like Earthquake/ surf. Examples= ninjask baton passing +2/+3 to Rhyperior with the move earthquake, your other pokemon would of course be immune to EQ. The problem is it is just so hard to sweep in doubles, often you will be vunerable to one opponent, and that critical hit rate in the frontier is about 50% when it matters...
Harden seems too slow for passing Def boosts. I think you would probably get more mileage out of just giving him some sort of damaging attack. That way, you at least have a small chance of winning if the rest of your team is wiped out.
No and maybe. Harden is rarely going to be worth the turn it takes to use, but Agility is somewhat useful for both Pokemon. When playing against the level 50 field, the minimum pre-Agility speed to shoot for is 101 (so you beat everything slower than Electrode). Empoleon doesn't have too much difficulty hitting that, but Rhyperior requires a helpful nature and maxed IVs/EVs.
That being said, I don't really know if spending a team slot on a Baton Passer is wise when both Pokemon you want to receive the Pass can learn Swords Dance and Agility/Rock Polish on their own. I'm not sold on the concept of status boosting moves in Doubles in the first place, for pretty much the same reasons Miscellaneous gave.
I wouldn't expect more than one, and even then you probably want a Focus Sash. That 4x Ice weakness and fairly low SpD means that it draws Ice Beams like moths to a flame.
Absolutely necessary? No. Very highly recommended? Definitely.
If you are wanting to use Agility or Rock Polish on your Rhyperior, you do absolutely need the maximum possible speed. You are also highly unlikely to get very far without either luck or very careful EV planning.
Honestly, I probably wouldn't run your team. You have a crushing weakness to Ground, Fighting, and Water, and aren't particularly fond of Ice, Grass, or Steel, either. You don't really capitalize on the perma-Sandstorm, since you can't stall too well with the number of weaknesses your team has. You are lacking the speed to sweep easily without using dedicated speed buffs, and I'm not seeing much synergy in your team.
I would suggest trying out a Rain Dance team if all you care about is getting the Gold Prints in Double Battle. I haven't personally gotten around to seriously doing Doubles, but Rain Dance is fairly easy to put together and play from what I understand.
I don't mind giving up on it! I've only just started breeding Gligar. Do you think a Sandstorm team can still work? That's a lot of water weakness... I'll research Explosion and Ghost/Destiny Bond. What makes Destiny Bond so special? You take out one Pokemon w/moves, and when you are weak, you drag the next one down when you die?
@spweasel: Thanks for the info. What might a Rain Dance doubles team look like? Is a Hail team feasible?
I personally would avoid Sandstorm teams since it is generally less useful than Rain and Sun (since it only gives you a little damage each turn and extra SpD for your Rock Types), and the only ability which it turns on is Sand Veil (which you can't really build a team around effectively).
Hail is a little better, but the first (and most significant) problem is that it encourages you to use Ice Pokemon - one of the weakest types defensively. I can't suggest spending time putting together a Hail team for the Frontier.
As for Rain Dance teams, I stole this and this from the first post. They should hopefully get you started.
Gengar @ Focus Sash
252 Sp. Att / 252 Speed / 4 HP
This is a nice singles tower lead, where destiny bond is put to great use. Basically, attack with Shadow Ball/T-bolt if you know you can outspeed +2HKO (or OHKO, of course) and then D-bond the next poke to go ahead 2-1. If you can't 2hko, then use counter if you're pretty sure it's a physical poke, and if you can't 2HKO/kill with counter, then you have to switch out. Still, there's a good chance that you'll go up 2-1, and you're almost guarenteed a kill.
The problem with a sandstorm team is that sandstorm doesn't really help that much. There's no ability like swift swim or chlorophyll, the only boosts are sand veil and the sp. def boost, and against CPU hax, both of those are relatively insignificant.
As for a rain team, yeah weasel has two good examples.
How exactly does Counter work? A Gengar is super fast. If Gengar moves first, does Counter fail?
Is there a Sunny Day team?
Battle Hall Record!
Gliscor (Executioner) @ Micle Berry
Trait: Hyper Cutter/ Sand Veil
EVs: 4HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
~ Knock Off
Strategy: The heart of this moveset is the combination of Micle Berry and Guillotine. Once a Pokémon reaches 25% of its HP or less, Micle Berry activates and ensures the next move will always hit regardless of accuracy and evasion modifiers. Gliscor's 95 Base Speed is enough for it to Substitute down to 25% of its HP and allow Micle Berry to activate. He then strikes back with a Guillotine of deadly accuracy, giving him the nickname of 'Executioner'. A very broad strategy like this allows you to take care of entire type groups without having to worry about tweaking EVs for every Pokémon in the group, merely a select few potential threats. Although this seemed like a fairly solid strategy, even negating things like Brightpowder and Lax Incense there were some issues to address:
Focus Band, Focus Sash and Quick Claw?
Chance items are already annoying enough as it is, let alone in the Battle Frontier where the AI gets more than its fair share of luck! Gliscor can Knock Off these pesky items and avoid ruining his plan. This means he will be vulnerable to an attack from the opponents for one turn which would be fatal were it not for Gliscor's solid defensive capabilities. 125 base Defence and 75 base HP make him a powerful physical sponge, which very few Battle Tower Pokémon would be able to take down in one hit! His base stat of 75 Special Defence is quite a bit less but still more than decent. Once the enemy item is Knocked Off, Gliscor can proceed with the execution.
Priority moves and faster opponents?
One of the weak spots in this strategy is the turn Gliscor strikes with Guillotine, at which point Gliscor only has 25% of his HP left. If the opponents strike with a priority move then it would be the end of this strategy were it not for Gliscor's bulkiness! Almost all the priority moves in the Battle Hall are Quick Attack and Vacuum Wave, which Gliscor absorbs easily even with only 25% HP.
Faster opponents are also a problem, especially if they can take out Gliscor in a single hit. If they do not, Gliscor can use Rock Polish to boost up his Speed and continue to execute the original plan.The only Pokémon who can outspeed and OHKO Gliscor, are Starmie and Weavile. Starmie is found in the vast Water- and Psychic- types, making an encounter a real threat but not a guarantee. To tackle Weavile, Gliscor variants with Focus Sash, Rock Tomb and Quick Attack can be made to secure a reasonable chance at victory.
Ghosts and Sturdy Pokémon
Both of these are immune to Guillotine, so a different approach will be required. The Ghost type is a very small group, making it possible to use a custom variant with Choice Band and Night Slash to tackle this type. All it requires for a win is Gengar not to use Hypnosis (or to miss) and Dusclops not to get Quick Claw activation or a CH. The dual Ghost types have additional weaknesses which means they can be countered in other type classes. For example Rotom and Drifblim can easily be killed with Earthquake and Thunder Fang respectively in the Electric- and Flying- groups.
The Sturdy Pokémon are almost all Rock- or Steel- types (exception being Donphan), making them vulnerable to a STAB Earthquake from Gliscor's 95 base Attack. Even those that are not taken down in one hit do very little damage in return as they mostly use physical moves, which Gliscor takes like a sponge. This means that even the Pokémon immune to this strategy can be handled without too much risk as long as Gliscor variants are used for each type!
Scroll down for record!
How I lost: after a grand total of 8 consecutive wins against the dreaded Water type I faced an Omastar which has no chance against Gliscor, or so I thought... I Substituted to 1/4 HP, Micle Berry activated and then Guillotine missed! $µ!%§@ Hydro Pump swiftly marked the end of my glorious streak! Apparently the Micle Berry does not guarantee OHKO moves to hit, as the Smogon entry suggests :o
All in all, I do think 8 wins at the Battle Hall Record of some kind, even if not the highest one!
Counter has a priority of -5, so it goes after all other damaging moves.
I'm sure you could find one if you looked hard enough (or make your own), but Sunny Day is at a significant disadvantage compared to Rain Dance.
Rain Dance improves the damage of Water attacks, reduces the damage of Fire attacks, and gives boosts with abilities like Swift Swim (abilities found mostly on Water types). As such, Rain Dance helps Water Pokemon a whole lot.
Sunny Boosts the damage of Fire attacks, reduces the damage of Water attacks, and gives boosts with abilities like Chlorophyll. The problem is that every Pokemon with an ability that gets a boost from Sunny Day is Grass type - meaning that no Pokemon can have both a STAB Fire attack and a boost from Chlorophyll, Solar Power, etc.. Basically, Sunny Day isn't sure what to help.
Additionally, Fire and Grass both have a number of fairly common weaknesses, while Water is only weak to Electricity and Grass. Not to mention Water Pokemon (and by extension Pokemon with Rain abilities) are far more common than Fire Pokemon or Pokemon with Sun abilities, so you have more choices.
Feel free to give it a shot, but I personally wouldn't bother with the breeding, leveling, and EVing. It might be fun to play around with if you can do some hacking, but otherwise it seems like a bit of a waste of time.
Ashenlock had a pretty good sun team that won around 150 games
Yeah, I did. Rock Tomb missed on Turn 1 :/
Don't get me wrong, I loved using Dragonite, but his total vulnerability to Weavile just turned me off to him, so to speak.
So my new Poke is doing well, but his typing is giving me some issues considering a lot of Pokemon know at least one move that hits him for SE damage. He's bulky enough and fast enough that most aren't a problem, but I'm taking a pretty roundabout path through the sets to ensure I knock out the problematic ones early, or at least kill the chance of meeting one 'till I top 170.
First post here, there aren't any records for Level 50 Doubles Factory so I thought I'd post this streak:
Level 50 Factory Doubles: 31 wins/32 trades
I don't remember much about the first two sets, set 3 I was able to grab Pinsir1 and Glaceon1 at the start and they were able to take me through pretty easily, Pinsir especially. Set 4 I got Salamence1 in the initial 6 and swapped for Garchomp1 after the first fight and they were able to clobber my opposition. In set 5 I started documenting my swaps:
The fight I lost was due to a combination of misplaying the beginning then a bit of bad luck. It went as follows:
I send out Lucario/Salamence.
Ace Trainer sends out Mismagius/Leafeon.
Leafeon Double Teams.
Mismagius Power Gems Salamence to 45%.
Salamence Aerial Aces Leafeon to 10%.
Lucario's Shadow Claw on Leafeon misses.
Playing this turn wrong lost me my streak. I should have gone for Mismagius immediately since Leafeon wasn't really a big threat to either Mence or Lucario, and failing to kill Leafeon due to the miss just makes things worse. If I had killed Mismagius turn 1 I would have won this fight.
Leafeon Aerial Aces Salamence to 25%.
Mismagius finishes Salamence with Power Gem.
Lucario Shadow Claws Mismagius, Kasib Berry keeps Mismagius alive with 40%.
Wasn't much else to do here. Maybe I should have killed Leafeon but I think it would have just sped up my demise.
I send out Espeon.
Espeon finishes Mismagius with Psychic.
Leafeon crits Espeon with Leaf Blade and OHKOs.
Lucario finishes Leafeon with Shadow Claw.
The crit here was the final nail in my coffin. Although I thought that I was ahead with an untouched Lucario, my opponent's final pokemon was Whiscash.
Ace Trainer sends out Whiscash.
Lucario uses Close Combat to 20%.
Whiscash uses Earth Power and OHKOs.
And that's how things ended. If I need a picture for proof, I can hook up my webcam to provide it.
I like your team. Is there something else I could use in place of garchomp, or is Sand Veil just too good?
I aslo don't have access to any 3rd generation pokes. Is there a substitute move for Counter?
Thanks! If you're talking about my singles team, then in place of garchomp you could always use metagross or even latios, they are both very powerful. In place of Counter, I guess you could use focus blast, but the accuracy sucks. Another option is HP Ice, but it's extremely hard to obtain.
I think you're close, but according to Smogon it's a 20% chance to thaw at any point, so I think it's 100% - (10% Freeze Chance × [1 - 20% chance to be and stay frozen on Turn 1]) = 100% - 8% = 92%, which works out to a 73.6% chance. This is of course way more important than actually battling...
While normally true, the Eruption Heatran we're going to be able to use soon put into my head the idea of an Exeggutor/Heatran combo that could be really, really badass in practice. I was thinking Sunny Day/Solarbeam/Sleep Powder/Sweet Scent@Sash with Eruption/Earth Power/Rest/Sleep Talk@Leftovers Heatran, but something like this may actually work better with Trick Room given that we know Heatran is always Quiet now...
Oh, haha, I thought it was 1/4 chance to thaw out. My bad! Yeah, when I don't have time to play, calculations are the next best thing to do hehe.
If I use an Azumarill with Belly Drum and Aqua Jet, would my record be voided? It is possible to get in-game without using a cheat device
TRE's basic stratergy was that explosion kills 2 pokes, the destiny bond will ~almost always kill the third. He got >800 so it obviously worked lol.
Like most people on this thread, I dont have too much experience in doubles... But if you're looking for a weather team, rain is probably your best bet. (Swift swim, surf, thunder) and there's loads of good water types to try out.
If you are going to do doubles, the biggest piece of advice is remember it's not singles, most singles leads won't work. Stalling doesn't work. There's a lot more room for creativity also.
I'm sure if you can actually get in in-game, then that's fine
I believe there's no way to breed both down without using a glitch so it isn't legal.
Actually you're mixing together a couple of my team. The team I used to get 770 in DP Double Battle Tower used Trick Room and Explosion. My Destiny Bond team was used to get 330 in DP Single Battle Tower. I'm working on it but none of my records are over 800 at the moment.
Oho, so that was your team. I got a spiffy star for my trainer card using it, even though I didn't have access to a self-destructing Snorlax. Used an Ursaring instead which worked well enough. :P
Just got 74 wins in the Platinum Singles Arcade with the same exact team as my doubles team (Latios, Metagross, Vaporeon) except I used surf over ice beam on vaporeon. I lost when I got the board speed up and I eventually landed on an all-burn panel. I think Latios took out the first pokemon with draco meteor, then died to a vileplume. I sent in metagross and when meteor mash didn't do enough to kill (it was burned) and the vileplume kept on healing it off with synthesis, I panicked and exploded, and it ended up breloom vs. vaporeon 1v1, an obvious loss.