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Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    SoulSilver Battle Tower Doubles Streak: 136
    - it´s just the first try with a new team I´m testing, I´ll post a higher streak when I hopefully achieve it

    BATTLE #137

    PETERKO: starmie & toxicroak
    vs
    PI CHESTER: bronzong & electrode
    - really bad matchup and I messed up
    a) trode outspeed and is able to OHKO starmie
    b) bronzong means STAB psychic attack OHKOs toxicroak

    - because of a) the logical move would have to be fake out trode (38-45) and kill it with surf (93-109),
    close to min damage and it wouldn´t, lol (I obviously didn´t calc this at the time) plus damage bronzong
    - but, bronzong is the bigger threat in my book, only because I always need quite a lot of focus fire to get rid of it
    - maybe the best option would´ve been a double switch, which I have done a few times already, when the foe´s move options (psychic attack on croak + electric attack on mie) are clear and the backup is the better choice (I remember doing this against a legendary trainer with lati+raikou)
    - as I said, I totally mess up and try surf all+low kick zong (93-111), and the following happens:

    turn 1
    - bronzong (QC activation) used zen headbutt, croak faints
    - stramie used surf, 75% dmg to trode, 35% dmg to zong
    - electrode used mirror coat, starmie fainted

    2:4 after turn one, I don´t think this has happened before, great
    I send in metagross+latias

    turn 2
    - latias used protect (I predicted an explosion)
    - electrode used signal beam, latias protected itself
    - metagross used earthquake, bronzong levitates, electrode faints
    - bronzong used iron head, latias protected itself

    foe sends in dugtrio

    turn 3
    - metagross used bullet punch, 70% dmg to dugtrio
    - bronzong used iron head, 40% dmg to latias
    - dugtrio used night slash, 50% dmg to latias
    - latias used thunderbolt, 35% dmg to bronzong (don´t ask me why I didn´t just kill duggy here ._. no clue)

    turn 4
    - latias (at 10% HP) used protect
    - metagross used bullet punch, dugtrio fainted
    - bronzong used iron head, latias protected itself

    foe sends in hippowdon

    turn 5
    - latias used draco meteor on hippowdon, but the attack missed
    - metagross used iron head 33% dmg to hippo
    - hippowdon used ice fang, latias fainted
    - bronzong used iron head 15% dmg to metagross

    turn 6
    - bronzong (QC activation) used zen headbutt 10% dmg to metagross
    - metagross flinched (a display of THE REASON why we all "love" the tower)
    - hippowdon used fire fang, occa activates, 65% left

    turn 7
    - bronzong (QC activation) used iron head, metagross at 50% HP
    - metagross used iron head 33% dmg to hippo
    - hippowdon used fire fang, but the attack missed (hahaha, the AI got it right back in the next turn)

    turn 8
    - metagross used iron head, hippo fainted
    - bronzong used zen headbutt, metagross with 40% HP left

    turn 9
    - metagross used iron head, bronzong with 15% left
    - bronzong used earthquake, metagross fainted

    - I´ll learn from my mistakes :)

    The team I´m learning to use and enjoy every minute of using:

    1. Starmie @ Choice Specs: Psychic, Surf, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt
    2. Toxicroak @ Life Orb: Sucker Punch, Fake Out, Low Kick, Poison Jab
    3. Metagross @ Occa Berry: Bullet Punch, Earthquake, Iron Head, Explosion
    4. Latias @ White Herb: Psychic, Draco Meteor, Thunderbolt, Protect

    - I noticed a specsmie+HHvappy on the list along with a rain dance starmiecroak one as well, after I decided to use these two (had a lot of things I wanted to try), I didn´t copy, but it doesn´t matter, anyway

    Toxicroak
    - team is in the test phase but I haven´t enjoyed playing the tower this much since a long time ago, toxicroak is quickly becoming one of my favourite pokémon
    - I´m testing poison jab first, and it has proven to be helpful against stuff like ludicolo and other grass types that harm starmie...I haven´t used it so much though
    - adamant LO sucker punch is so great I can´t get enough of it, one hits even stuff like gardevoir and dents fast sweepers for massive damage for starmie to finish them easily
    - LO and not sash because I´m enjoying the damage output and starmie heals me with surf
    - STAB LO low kick is so awesome, I´m loving this pokémon so much (bred it yesterday, along with two perfect timid starmies the day before) that I feel like a kid with a new toy

    Starmie
    - specs surf is good, but kind of underwhelming at times...I simply dislike the fact how the 3/4 cut applies on the second poké, even if the first hit KOs the first poké
    - that´s why I´ve enjoyed specs eruption from typhlosion so much more, that really is a massive damage difference
    - the other moves are clearly used when needed
    - thunderbolt gives me headaches, because it´s not able to one hit water stuff like slowbro, damn

    Metagross
    - stand alone complex, this guy takes so much damage and helps me out whenever needed
    - I went with accuracy over power/hax in iron head over MM, because I hated how I lost battles because the worst attack in the game missed at the worst possible times
    - now I miss the 25% power and consider replacing iron head with something...don ´t know, to hurt psychic types, because I have a hard time getting past those, I miss the physical shadow ball from emerald on meta

    Latias
    - my old emerald reset (the crazy one, 29-2-29-29-31-31) and it´s not that great in doubles
    - it survives stuff like a champ, but the damage output is just too low
    - I plan to SR a perfect latios in the following days
    - the moveset/item is weird, I know, room for improvement

    when I have latios, maybe I´ll test him as a specslead...lots of stuff I´d like to try out
    I have been doing doubles multitarget-move theorymon...like scarfaboma+specstyphlo blizzarderuption or cbaero+scarftar double slide, obviously quakedischarge, quakeslide or even double discharge...


    EDIT: oh yeah experienced doubles players, I´m still not sure how the turn order works if a pokémon is holding a quick claw

    I have clearly noticed that QC pokémon are at times considered first in turn order (for example abilities messages come first) or just when I surf...I haven´t played enough/paid enough attention to tell how exactly this works

    anyone knows this?
    just look at the battle log I posted, turns 1 and 2 (surf hit trode before zong and next turn quake and levitate message was before trode fainted)...I have the battle saved and am 100% sure of the order

    my theory from a long time ago is that the turn order is in the actual turn depends on the turn order of the following one (?) lol I know this is crazy, but look at zong, QC activated in turn 3 and it was attacked before trode...which was, on the other hand, hurt first in turn one despite using mirror coat (???) I don´t have the time for this lol

    EDIT 2: oh yeah, we broke 3000 posts in this topic this week, nice one guys ;)
  2. VileTung

    VileTung

    Joined:
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    1,384
    I guess it was Flash Canon, sorry guys. And I was scared to lose and thought Earthquake couldn't hit Magnezone... well it's the very first time I'm doing the battle hall!

    And you're not rude, it is just to the point!

    It is indeed Garchomp, and I got killed by flash cannon. Ok! Thanks! I'll try again now, maybe I achieve a top 10 score :naughty:

    Thanks guys!

    This one killed me:
    H455 | Magnezone | Bold | Ganlon Berry | Flash Cannon | Tri Attack | Thunder | Mirror Coat | Def/SpA
  3. Kamisutra

    Kamisutra

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
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    Yeah just use Earthquake next time, will work like a charm. Even a Magnezone with Shuca berry gets KOd by it.
  4. VileTung

    VileTung

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
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    Ok, I never knew that Earhtquake would hit it, well I'm a battle noob and I want to learn to battle xD Thanks!
  5. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

    Joined:
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    I'm not so sure Garchomp is a lock to get a free kill against Poliwrath/Lapras even if it's the 3rd Pokemon unless you're guaranteed to PP stall them out of Ice Beam/Blizzard/etc. with Suicune. I don't have as much experience as you do with Suicune so maybe it's not a big deal though. Probably worse case scenario is Poliwrath setting up Double Team or Bulk Up against Suicune. Also, Lapras #4 actually does pack Thunderbolt.

    Didn't realize Garchomp typically only gets 1 SD even with Encore support. I'll admit my Outrage advice was a knee-jerk response to your comment about D-claw not finishing off Aerodactyl (Outrage probably doesn't either lol). Good point on Steel types appearing in droves too.

    Good luck!

    LO Croak is pretty godly in doubles, good choice with LO + Surf heal. I'm definitely going to try a more hyperoffensive doubles team once I get sick of TR.

    I've noticed the QC thing too with regards to weather damage and Rock Slide. I always thought it was because QC activated on that turn but I didn't really pay that much attention to it. I'll try to be more observant next time and see if your theory holds up. It'll be a great tip if so but I always expect it to activate every turn anyway lol.
  6. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

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    In the Battle Frontier, specifically Battle Hall, do you win or lose if you knock out the opponent but also knock yourself out because of Rough Skin?
  7. Tombstoner

    Tombstoner

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    Ties (e.g. Double KOs) in the Battle Frontier count as losses.
  8. Kamisutra

    Kamisutra

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    You lose. Same goes for things like Life Orb or Destiny Bond caused fainting.
  9. Sam2k10

    Sam2k10

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    Aug 18, 2010
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    Hello, I am a non-competitive battler looking to complete the game, and I was wanting to ask something.

    Is there a suggested team for Battle Tower battles 50-100?

    I have tried using these teams:

    Starmie, Electivire, Salamence
    Mespirit, Drapion, Garchomp
    Starmie, Garchomp, Snorlax

    If some on could help me, I would be very thankful.
  10. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
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    Thanks for telling me. I guess I'll just have to hope I never see any Sharpedos in the Battle Hall then.
  11. Tombstoner

    Tombstoner

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    No offense, but mind checking if the question's been answered correctly before answering it?
  12. Kamisutra

    Kamisutra

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    Apologies, I was aware you answered it first, but I wanted to specify that "Double KOs" includes damage caused by item effects and attacks, since the person asking the question seems to be new to the frontier and specifying it further could avoid confusion.

    Anyway, I meant no ill will, I'm sorry if I offended you.

    This thread helped me greatly when I got into the frontier a year ago. It covers the most important basics:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58806

    Perhaps it'll be of help to you as well.
  13. Nyxed

    Nyxed

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
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    Hi everyone, after losing a streak of 60 and one in the 50's, i am looking for ways to improve my team and go deeper into the tower. As someone who hasnt played since pokemon red, i relied pretty heavily on the standard builds in creating my team.

    -CB Scizor Adamant/Technician
    248 HP, 252 Atk, 8 Spe
    U-turn, Bullet Punch, superpower, Pursuit

    Leftovers Vaporeon Bold
    188Hp, 252 Def, 68 spe
    Protect, Wish, Icebeam, Surf

    Life orb Zapdos Bold
    248 Hp, 228 def, 32 spe
    Thunderbolt, HP grass, Heatwave, Roost

    So far, the little catfish has proved to be my most reliable poke, and wish protect has kept me alive more than i can count. My third has pretty much been a revolving door, with garchomp and heatran both coming before zapdos. CB scizor has done moderately well, but i've seen a lot of surprise fire attacks come out and toast this guy, i'm sure with more experience he'll be more useful to me. The 2 pokemon that have wrecked my streak so far have been mixed attackers who hit super effective on all 3 pokes.
    Blissey lead against my scizor, whom used superpower and missed, and was OHKO'd back with flamethrower. Left against it were my two Sp Atkers zapdos and vaporeon, whom were hit with icebeam and thunderbolt respectively. Looking back i should have gone for a pp stall, especially with zapdos i probably could have survived by roosting as fast as I could.

    The second loss was a mixed electivire whom I switched scizor into zapdos and caught an ice punch, a missplay on my part, i could have bullet punched to sacrifice scizor and then finished electivire with a heat wave from zapdos. Live and learn i guess.

    Anyways, as to not deposit a wall of words on this nice thread, i'd just like some input to retool my team, the only poke i'm really attached to at this point is vaporeon. Thanks, all suggestions welcome to this newbie.
  14. Team Rocket Elite

    Team Rocket Elite Data Integration Thought Entity
    is a Pokemon Researcher

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    With my Trick Room team in doubles, they tend to not attack with Earthquake or Surf any more than they do in DP, but I do see them use Earthquake to hit my Heatran when I use one in battles before 49 when they don't have anything to KO my other Pokemon with. With that said, here's how I think their behaviour works with the moves, I will use Earthquake as the example move, from a Pokemon with only damaging attacks:

    -If the ally Pokemon flies or levitates, and you cannot KO any of the opponent's Pokemon with other attacks, use Earthquake.
    -----If you can KO something with another attack, go for the kill instead.

    -If you can KO one of the opponent's Pokemon with Earthquake, use it even if it hits your ally
    -----will not use if it will KO the ally based on current HP amounts (not too sure about this one)

    -If one is EQ KOable and one is flying/levitating and KOable, 50/50 chance who to choose to KO if ally is immune as well.
    -----go for flying one if ally would be damaged. (This is essentially the Lv.2 Togekiss situation which saves Bonzong a lot of the time)

    -If the moveset is full of moves that the CPU is reluctant to use, eg. Rampardos 4. The CPU will not Giga Impact at full HP, rarely uses SuperPower without a White Herb, and seems reluctant to use Head Smash on a level 2 Togekiss, possibly due to projected damage causing it to KO itself in recoil. It's almost guaranteed to Earthquake if its ally is immune to it, but may go for Head Smash if its ally is weak to the attack.
    -----Other examples are Mamoswine 3 and Gliscor 3, for some reason the CPU places higher priority on using EQ as opposed to KOing Togekiss with U-Turn if the ally is immune to it.

    -If you are the last one standing and Earthquake is the most effective move to use


    Regarding order of multitarget attacks hitting, I always viewed it as Quick Claw "Actiivating" causing that Pokemon to jump queue and be hit by the attack first. Since this can occur even if it doesn't actually Quick Claw to attack first on the given turn. This doesn't really change much in the battle though. The only time it's really relevant is something like needing a full power Explosion to take out the QC user and you'd KO the other Pokemon first, since jumping queue would make it survive the attack.
  15. VaporeonIce

    VaporeonIce

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
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    297
    Oh, special Poliwrath and special Lapras are no problem; they're easily stalled out by Suicune. I've stalled out Lapras 4 pretty effortlessly, and Poliwrath 1 doesn't bother me with Double Team either (it's easy to stall). Pressure is just such a godly ability on Suicune. So it's only the physical Poliwrath (2 and 4) and Lapras (1 and 3) that are a problem, and Garchomp can usually take them out if they don't set up Curse or Bulk Up (excluding Lapras 1 with its Ice Shard). I might be able to stall out Lapras 1 with Suicune even if it's at +6 (and it will probably just throw attacks at me instead of boosting), since Aqua Tail is its strongest move, it manages around 50%, and it has a chance of missing (so I can just SubStall). Plus, like I said, the AI tends to just try to kill +6 Suicune instead of boosting, so stalling out Lapras isn't hard. Poliwrath would be a problem for Garchomp if it carried Ice Punch, but fortunately, it doesn't.

    I'll probably try again after trying out the Nuzlocke challenge in Emerald for a while, so I'll post back about the team once I can manage a better streak. And Peterko, using Toxicroak = awesome. He has JUST the right stats/typing/coverage to be useful, and it seems like you've made a pretty cool team that uses him well. Good luck!

    Nyxed, CB Scizor shouldn't be used as a lead; you'll just need to switch it out way too often, since Bullet Punch is resisted by so many common types (and it's probably the move you'll start out with the most). Also, if you're going to use him, you'll want to use Night Slash over Pursuit; the AI will almost never switch, so 70 BP with a high crit rate will do a lot more for you than 60 BP. Your Zapdos sort of undermines itself; Life Orb works against the defensive EVs you've given it, and even though Roost makes up for it somewhat, a ton of Pokemon in the Tower have 4 different types of attacks, and one of them will probably be Ice or Rock. Expert Belt would work better; it lets you keep most of that power when your moves are super effective (which is really the only time Zapdos will be doing much anyway, other than things with crappy SpDef) without burning away your HP. Note that the Battle Tower is VERY different from the competitive battle environment, and the standard sets that work well on here usually won't work well in there, because the threats you face are different. First of all, getting to 100 without Substitute is really hard; there are just too many Quick Claw/OHKO threats that will mess you up, as well as random Brightpowder/Lax Incense hax that'll stop a potential sweep. My Metagross/Suicune/Dragonite team had amazing synergy and generally performed well against hax, and I could still only get it to battle 79 after several tries. I won't give advice about a whole team, but I'd look over the Battle Tower guide: http://www.smogon.com/ingame/bt/dp_bt_intro

    Also, make sure to use the trainer/Pokemon lists on the original post of this thread; they help a lot. The one thing that I'd say that contradicts what's posted in that guide is that stall can sometimes work, but whatever you're trying to stall with has to be insanely bulky (generally Suicune and Registeel are the only Pokemon that can do it well), and even then, you'll want Substitute for protection against crits. Plus, your stalling should have a purpose: namely, you want to be setting up a sweep (using Calm Mind with Suicune or Curse with Registeel). Good luck! I'm sure other people could supplement the info in the guide better than I could.
  16. Nyxed

    Nyxed

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
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    Thankyou vaporeonice, not having scizor as lead seemed fairly obvious, i'm going to try a little faster group with the things you said in mind. Sub sword dance garchomp, scarf heatran, and vaporeon. Thanks again.
  17. Groombridge

    Groombridge

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    127
    The StarCroak RD combo was me, Specsmie/HH Vap was Chinese Dood IIRC. I like the all-out kill things approach - hadn't really thought of Croak's sweeper potential. It was really odd reading the warstory. Like, 'why didn't Starmie's Sash/Croak's Payapa Berry save it?'. Then I was all 'oh yeah'...

    For reals, this guy is just hilarious. Great backsprite too, which helps when you have to look at it for ages. I'm rethinking my Croak's moveset in the light of this post...

    Ludicolo is a massive pain for me, so PJab would be sweet for that alone. Looking over Croak's movepool, there are some interesting things there - Ice Punch and Thunderpunch (but Starmie covers them), maybe Icy Wind, EQ and Super Fang.

    Testify! Sucker Punch is so ill. Stuff like Gard, Espeon and Gengar are free kills (when they appear alone - if you're against two Psychics, you're in trouble).
    I like this. Croak is a pretty fierce attacker, with STAB Low Kick, Sucker Punch and 106 Atk - why not just fuck shit up? When I first planned using Croak, I actually thought about a Subpunch set - each Surf is a free sub! Then I realised that Sub and Focus Punch are both terrible moves in doubles and changed it.

    Point is Dry Skin healing kicks ass. The AI will frequently top you up as well - it still doesn't realise Croak is Water-immune. That's something I've been paying attention to in Platinum. If the AI's best attack on Croak would be Water, it'll use it. Croak is unusual amongst things with Water immunities: only things with Water Absorb and Dry Skin are immune, and all the rest resist water (except Quagsire, who's neutral too and whom I imagine punks the AI in the same way). Croak doesn't resist Water, so, ability aside, Hydro Pumping him is a good idea...

    Nice breeds! LK is sweet - hits so much for 120 BP, and then it's stronger than Infernape's Close Combat. The thing that sucks hardest is Regice - that one is lighter than the other Regis for some reason, so it gets hit for 100 BP rather that 120 BP - missing the OHKO. But with Metagross, Ice is dead anyway.

    Like every GITS:SAC fan ever, I named mine Tachikoma. I even ran a mixed set and gave it Grass Knot so it could shoot wires...
  18. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    well, the team´s not doing that great...actually it´s me lol

    50 reporter elaine: claydol,luxray,slowking,raichu = 2-0
    51 pkmn breeder peter: aerodactyl,weavile,probopass,ninetales = 2-0
    52 socialite rioha: suicune,regigigas,raikou,registeel = 2-0
    53 camper freddy: rampardos,weavile,blissey,ninetales = 4-0
    54 ace trainer thad: mamoswine,abomasnow,jynx,articuno = 4-0
    55 reporter katie: medicham,lanturn,claydol,jynx = 3-0
    56 bird keeper eliza: yanmega,salamence,dragonite,aerodactyl = 1-0
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    57 rancher vern: drifblim,alakazam,muk,golduck = 2-0
    58 bird keeper eliza: articuno,vespiquen,dragonite,charizard = 3-0
    59 pokéfan europa: cradily,bastiodon,jynx,poliwrath = 4-0
    60 pokéfan turner: rapidash,manectric,tauros,bastiodon = 4-0
    61 guitarist cecil: alakazam,electrode,slowbro,blaziken = 4-0
    62 scientist irwin: staraptor,forretress,slowking,payback = 3-0
    63 pkmn ranger elise: granbull,rapidash,golduck,whiscash = 3-0
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    64 pi chester: regirock,pinsir,magnezone,rapidash = 4-0
    65 cyclist ward: moltres,infernape,zapdos,salamence = 3-0
    66 rancher boris: skuntank,medicham,abomasnow,muk = 4-0
    67 waiter warren: infernape,typhlosion,mismagius,froslass = 4-0
    68 pkmn breeder tyron: exeggutor,weavile,salamence,espeon = 3-0
    69 pokéfan turner: hypno,toxicroak,swampert,dewgong = 4-0
    70 bird keeper eliza: salamence,skarmory,zapdos,gyarados = 3-0
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    71 idol kristi: typhlosion,feraligatr,meganium,venusaur = 4-0
    72 ace trainer leda: dewgong,froslass,glalie,glaceon = 3-0
    73 pokéfan europa: muk,forretress,sceptile,alakazam = 3-0
    74 pkmn breeder zorya: hippowdon(QCqua),weavile,roserade,scizor = 2-0

    #75 jogger dimitri

    starmie+toxicroak vs gallade+rhyperior
    didn´t check the list, but I saw the psycho cut from a mile away

    turn 1
    - toxicroak used fake out on gallade (I knew about his ability and sucker punch+surf would have ensured a KO this turn, but I wanted to make sure he wouldn´t attack and I had priority for next turn...oh well a quake would have killed me, but wait, I didn´t check the list)
    - starmie used surf, gallade lives, rhyperior held on (sash)
    - rhyperior used payback on starmie, starmie lives miraculously (not really, now I did a dmg calc and it does 117-138/135, so only rand.99 or 100 OHKOs, breeding the perfect starmie paid off)

    turn 2
    - toxicroak used sucker punch, gallade fainted
    - starmie used surf, rhyperior fainted

    4-2 lead and foe brings in scizor and machamp
    - I opt for surf+low kick scizor to get rid of it and kill machamp with latios afterwards, that was the plan, but...

    turn 3
    - scizor used quick attack, starmie fainted (whaa? lol playing a trick team for ages makes you forget/not know this, OK I knew there was a bullet punch one, this caught me by surprise though :/ )
    - toxicroak used low kick, the HP bar goes down a lot more than I expected as I presumed 60 or 80 base power to do around 50-60%, biig mistake... >75% dmg (more like 82%), salac activated (oh fuu...or not, I think LO sucker can finish him off)...oh yeah I checked afterwards and scizor is heavier than I thought (100 base power)
    - machamp used stone edge, 30% to croak

    I bring in latios to clean up and opt for suckerP scizor, psychic champ

    turn 4
    - toxicroak used sucker punch, scizor survives with like 1 HP (almost not visible on the HP bar)
    - scizor used x-scissor (wait what?), latios fainted... ... ... ... ... damn
    - machamp used earthquake, scizor faints, toxicroak faints

    wow, how did a 4-2 turn into a 1-1 meta vs machamp duel? this would be fun

    turn 5
    - machamp (obvious QC activation) used dynamicpunch (wth), 45% damage to metagross
    - metagross is confused, metagross hurt itself in confusion 10% (gg)

    turn 6
    - metagross snapped out of confusion, metagross used iron head, 48% damage to machamp
    - machamp used dynamicpunch, metagross fainted

    this loss was my loss...

    - scizor´s moveset surprised me, all I remember is x-scissor and the threat of powder+SD from set1 from playing a trick team...
    - scizor´s weight surprised me, dude doesn´t look as fat...I know steel type but nowhere near a freaking bronze gong in my mind lol
    - scizor´s speed after salac surprised me even more, I know it hits 229 at lv.100 and I didn´t really calc, but rather did a quick mind check and no way latios would be slower, also I was betting my money on sucker punch finishing off anyway...this runs +speed and actually hits 192 speed after salac at lv.50 (neutral speed would be 175 which is inferior to latios´ 178 ._.)

    here´s the two important (game deciding) damage calcs.
    173 attack LO low kick (100 BP) vs 120 def scizor = 106-126 dmg (73-87%)
    173 attack LO sucker punch vs 120 def scizor = 28-33 dmg (19-22.76%)

    yeah, even the damage range of LK screwed me over here :( as I needed rand.93-100 on LK for a 100% KO with sucker punch afterwards...

    - machamp using dynamicpunch on metagross when it knows earthquake...headscratch hmm

    oh yeah, I´ve SRed the perfect latios yesterday late evening (along with the other two roamers)...I don´t like the movesets/item choice on it...definitely needs a damage boosting item, it does 90% damage to stuff with DM

    btw. anyone thought about using hitmontop in the tower? you know how great it did in the VGC and it could do the same here (I think) with FO,mach punch,sucker punch, helping hand/aerial ace/bullet punch (for aero)/low kick...has only a bit less attack than croak (173 vs 161) and you can run max HP with those defs (156HP/116def/131sD with 248/4/4) it could survive a hit, no 4x weak as well

    also hitmonlee has the highest attack stat of the non-STAB sucker punchers (189), can fake out static users without getting paralyzed and is faster than croak...yeah no water absorb, but with a different partner then, of course
  19. ashez

    ashez

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    177
    On my sandstorm double battle run today I came across a hitmontop and after reading how well its done I was going to look more into it tomo wen get on pc lol, think its got protental to do well, I think fighting types are one best types due to coverage etc unsure on hitmonlee tho, but sucker punch is great move in my earli days on shody I used a curse umbreon to good effect
  20. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,837
    i had a 266 mimic-glitch-enhanced streak come to an end yesterday. i was using:

    latias
    trick, thunderwave, charm, flash

    registeel
    accupressure (yeah baby!), rest, substitute, iron head

    latios
    nasty plot, substitute, dragon pulse, flamethrower

    interestingly, it lost to a situation which which my regular BT team would have handled fine (legit registeel and salamence). but it would have beaten peterko's 2363 team easily, barring some very good luck.

    against some battle girl

    turn 1. machamp - quick claw critical hit ice punch. OHKO's latias with no trick.

    looking at the moveset, he has dynamic punch, earthquake, ice punch, thunder punch. so only hope is to switch back and forth between steel and latios, hoping it has guts, and a few DP's miss.

    turn 2. registeel comes in. i switch to latios who gets hit by DP. does a whopping 40% - more than i expected.

    turn 3. back to steel - ice punch does not much - after lefties, maybe 5 or so hp.

    turn 4. back to latios. DP misses. that's good at least.

    turn 5. back to steel. IP.

    turn 6. back to latios. DP hits. i'm low on health now.

    turn 7. back to steel. dynamic punch hits (guess because it had latios low enough - i hate that use-weakest-move rule). does quite a bit - down to about 40-50 hp from memory.

    turn 8. back to latios. DP misses.

    turn 9. back to steel. stone edge hits and does more than ice punch - maybe 20+ hp damage. at this rate, if he keeps aiming SE's at latios i'm gonna die.

    turn 10. i bite the bullet and rest up. quick claw earthquake kills steel.

    turn 11. latios fires a dragon pulse and does about 40%.


    ok, if i had salamence, then after all those switch-ins, machamp's attack would have been so low that even the DP that hit steel would have done almost nothing.

    whereas garchomp would have fared even worse!!!
  21. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    you had bad luck with the CH ice punch, I don´t know what EV spread you´re using

    it does 172-204 dmg to a 133 def/187 HP latias, needs rand. 93-100 to OHKO
    and 168-200 dmg to my 135/185 latias, needs rand. 92-100 to OHKO

    I never said my EV spread on latias was the best, actually I reEVed it so it could take a CB outrage from draggy after a charm and live with at least 1 HP to charm again...thus creating team version 2

    I only had a timid latias from emerald (29-2-29-29-31-31) and then I SRed another timid one in HG lol (this time, a perfect one)...I will probably restart my HG to get another latias...another option would be the enigma stone wi-fi event, which means either buying a DSi or changing the encryption of my router for a short period of time...this would give me a chance to ask for a gigas to get my desired perfect impish registeel, making team version 3 perfect

    I´m also considering a calm nature, because team version 3 has a slightly different approach on a thing or two, but bold is better (187/150/150/136 sucks that you give a spA boost to poryZ lol but 149/151 would mean you throw 4 EVs out of the window, oh well) and lets you live through a CH meteor mash as well (max MM CH damage is 186 according to my quick calc)

    oh yeah, that spread was recommended by the king a long time ago, anyway...so not like I´m mentioning something new

    back to the topic, bold with at least 147 defense ensures you won´t get OHKOed by the CH ice punch from machamp

    also why didn´t you give latias memento and I´d use surf over flamethrower because of heatran

    yeah, team version 2 would have had a hard time getting out of that situation...I would´ve tried to bring in an iron head and then hammer it with garchomp...could work, but probably not
  22. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    260
    Buying a DSi won't help you, don't bother. It's the game's wireless capabilities that are the problem, not the DS.
  23. dumbdonkey

    dumbdonkey

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    After getting my gold print, i decided to keep going at singles, arcade on my SS, losing at 69

    Pokes - none of them are properly nature/iv bred

    Lonely Lucario M - 29/30/20/6/31/29
    Hp - 6 Attack - 252 Speed - 252
    Swords Dance
    Ice Punch
    Close Combat
    ExtremeSpeed
    (Inner Focus)

    Hasty Gengar F - 29/22/0/28/12/31
    Hp - 6 Sp.Atk - 252 Speed - 252
    Destiny Bond
    Shadow Ball
    Sludge Bomb
    Focus Blast

    Modest Kingdra M - 23/24/27/31/26/7
    Hp - 252 Sp.Atk - 252 Speed - 6
    Rain Dance
    Dragon Pulse
    Ice Beam
    Surf
    (Swift Swim)

    Strategy - Kingdra and gengar covers all of lucario's weakness. Inner focus means i won't be broken by fake out. Gengar is there as a revenge killer and destiny bond against the last poke, or on pokes i dont like. Kingdra's a rain dance sweeper

    How I lost - combination of bad luck and hax

    Lucario - Gengar - Kingdra
    VS
    Registeel - Moltres - Entei


    Prior to match : I hit a red freeze on the board and opponent's entei gets frozen

    Lucario vs Registeel
    – I start off with close combat that takes him down to red and I take a thunder wave
    – He then thunderbolts me to bring my down to ~40% hp. I get parahaxed
    – I try to use extreme speed, but I get parahaxed again. Then he flash cannons me for a crit (not sure if it mattered tho), knocking out lucario

    Gengar vs Registeel
    – I use focus blast, missing, and I take another thunder wave.
    – He uses flash cannon which takes me down to red. Stark berry activates to sharply boost my def. I focus blast for K.O

    Gengar vs Moltres
    – I’m paralyzed and at red. Moltres uses ancient power for K.O
    All 5 stats gets a boost from AP

    Kingdra vs Moltres
    – He uses air slash which takes to ~40% hp. I flinch.
    Air slash again for K.O


    If i hadn't missed focus blast, gengar wouldnt have taken a thunder wave, meaning she could have dragged moltres down with destiny bond, leaving my kingdra to bully his entei.
  24. Eppie

    Eppie

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,822
    I cannot understand why you are playing with Pokémon using moves they cannot learn besides the mimic glitch, no offence but that's really stupid and time waisting IMO =/


    Focus Blast has only 60% accuaracy which means it's gonna miss when you want it to hit the most. That's how the battle tower works.
  25. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    173
    Coming from someone who thinks Focus Blast has 60% accuracy, it's hard to take your opinions seriously. Bozo has clearly stated that he does not count his glitch-moveset streaks as being legitimate for records, rather they are for fun and they can prove interesting things about how the AI works.

    The Battle Tower, and all other Frontier facilities, actually work on the principle that the more battles you have, the more chances the AI gets at haxing you. That's all it is. It averages out eventually.


    More importantly, I should mention that I lost ages ago in the HG Tower at 463, failing to get 1000+, let alone near my record of 646. I have now definitely given up forever, as I found the pure boredom a very depressing way to spend all my free time (now I just play slightly-boring games instead, which is still depressing). It pains me that those who did better just had better luck and such.

    After all, there's not much you can do after Lickilicky double-Lax Incenses you and forces you to send out unboosted Registeel. Lickilicky4 is actually one of the deadliest Tower Pokemon.

    ... all those hours, they were worth nothing in the end.

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