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Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009
    o didnt realise it was only 90% accurate, in truth the nido's were shots in the dark i wasnt able to use pc for long so i was only scanning the info i had.

    in doubles i normal go 2 of each attackers to make it harder to be walled so defo see your point there. i also realised HP fire wont be KO'in many steels, it is mainly just a somewhat filler move to hit them.

    from past atempts with these two leads i've found the electric switch in has been of great importants. so i'm either forced to go with a ground type/ability obsorber (moter drive etc) or something which can handle the attack plus a lum berry to ignor para chance.

    so looking at it a little more in depth but again slightly rushed my options are

    garchomp - pros - ground type/speed/power/coverage - cons - ice weakness

    electivire - pros - ability/e'quake/coverage/1 weakness - cons- ground weakness/lack power/lack speed if no boost

    latis - pros - great power/ great speed/ coverage/ recovery - cons - shared bug/dark/ghost weakness/special attacker/doesnt resist electric/para problem on switching in

    gliscor - pros - great typing/decent speed/decent bulk/recovery - cons - decent attack/ice weakness

    mamoswine - pros - ability/ground typing/attack/priority - cons - shared weakness, average speed,

    lanturn - pros - offensive typing/ability - cons - special/stats

    so knowing i need a ground/fire move lanturn, latis out.

    so options - (disreguarding fire blast)
    garchomp - earthquake, flamethrower, fire fang
    electivire - earthquake, flamethrower, fire punch
    gliscor - earthquake, fire fang
    mamoswine - earthquake

    so i'm wanting to go physical so ignor flamethrower, and after that stage mamoswine is out. leaving electivire, garchomp and gliscor.

    Base stats of importants - Attack/Speed
    electrivire 127/95
    garchomp 130/102
    gliscor 95/95

    so there gliscor falls short of the cut. leaving electrivire and garchomp.

    they both can switch in on predicted electric attacks/types and score a swift Ko with quake. they both learn rock slide to hit ice/flying/fire types and of course flinch hax.

    some calculations - using jolly 252A and expert belt (done on smogon calculator)

    Froslass 4
    elect - fire punch - 92.4% - 109% - can Ko on high roll
    chomp - fire fang - 82.8% - 97.2% - never Ko

    Mamoswine 1
    elect - Fire punch - 55.3% - 65% - can always 2ko
    chomp - Fire Fang - 49.8% - 59.4% - cant always 2ko

    so on the fire type moves elect is taking the lead.

    obviously chomp will score higher on the quake damage (stab) so i wont go into them. so scores tied one a piece.

    when i started all this (sorry if i got carried away) i thought chomp would win hands down but after some more research its closer than i thought. atm i'm leaning towards elect mainly because i hate chomps ice weakness and used him before to succes but i just simply dont like him lol.

    but that extra tad of speed gives chomp such an advantage yet chomp raped by pokes that trouble my team. so if i go for the all out electric immunity its got to be elect.

    rough outline of set -

    item:shucca berry
    1.thunder punch
    2.fire punch
    3.rock slide
    4.low kick/brick break

    i no after all that i've dropped e'quake reasoning is i only really need the one, and i decided to sugguest RS over quake so i dont have to spam protect on half the team, and so moltres/charizard dont give me trouble. TP is basic then last move is debatable. after MD boost all thats need is 53 (i think it was was around there) evs in speed to outpace the tower apart from the 2 over 201, but i cant always be hit with a electric attack and with out the boost he'd just be dead weight

    so there just some rough outlines lmfao, like i said sorry if went on abit, was only ment to be sort then as went though ideas in my mind kept typing ha!

    after all that prob wont use any but o well, so yeah any thoughts basicly :)

    @Chinese Dood - scary post count of 666 ha!
  2. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Electivire was actually the first thing I thought of in your team, but I guess I actually forgot to mention it (or maybe I did a few posts ago and never followed up on it). Low Kick will hit Mamoswine harder, just so you know. Adamant Electivire will have high chance to OHKO, while Jolly will have a low chance to OHKO. (EDIT: that's with Expert Belt)

    You're right in EQ not being that good for you team though, no immunity on that, etc.

    Latis does resist electric though, but yes, they still get paralyzed and don't have fire move and are special.
  3. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009
    you prob didint mention electivire due to fact i mentioned him on my 1st post.

    main thing putting me of latis is the shared weaknesses it would bring, being a special attacker is downer to lol. but if this team don't work i prob will try out a lati.

    just about to start my 1st run with this newly formed team -

    leads -

    name:Abomasnow@Focus sash
    3.Grass Knot
    4.Hidden Power Fire

    name:Starmie@ Life Orb

    back up -

    name:Hitmontop@leftovers (unsure on item)
    1.Fake out
    2.Mach Punch
    3.Sucker Punch
    4.Aerial Ace

    name:Electivire@expert belt
    1.Thunder punch
    2.Fire Punch
    3.Ice Punch
    4.Rock slide

    only changes since we discussed it is i decided ice punch instead of brick break due to fact gliscor completely walls it, and with hitmontop with mach punch didnt really like fact that one poke can wall both my back ups.

    so good luck 2 me :). any thoughts?

    did you get around to trying out your ideas? personally liked your arbok idea due to the snake being a close favorite of mine lol
  4. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Good luck with that team! I still think Special Fire move is probably better (wait, did I even mention that before? lol), but maybe it's not that important.

    Well, it seems like things are covered in that team, but at the same time, there isn't like an underlying theme/strategy to the whole team. Maybe it's ok, maybe not. I dunno. I almost feel like Hitmontop should be leading instead of Starmie too (in which case there is less of a need for Electivire). The thing with Electivire is that two of its strongest non-Electric attacks (Low Kick on heavy pokemon and Earthquake) are not present and are replaced with mediocre 70-75 base power attacks just for coverage, but the coverage won't OHKO many things that have defense EVs.

    Well! That's just being critical. Not like I actually used anything that similar anyway, so maybe all my doubts are actually non-issues.

    I still have yet to try Arbok. I was kind of lazy since I didn't feel like breeding for one, since I have to get Switcheroo egg move first, etc. etc. Instead I just RNG'd a 31/x/31/x/31/31 Beldum on Pokewalker which took less than an hour, just to see how Trick Metagross will do. I didn't do very well with that so far though pairing with Latios.

    EDIT: I might just leave singles for a bit and go to the much more fast-paced doubles as well.
  5. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009
    Do see what your saying,but think starmie important in lead due to fire types which top would struggle with. But guna give it a couple goes see how it works i'l report back my findings lol

    I once tried trick gross lead running trick,scary face,flash,earthquake and a dd gyara to take meta's weakness, worked out ok but gave up on it.

    I aint broke 100 in singles just to impatient for it all I guess lol whilst i'm in love with doubles ha.
  6. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Yeah I was going to try pairing Gyarados with Metagross instead. I've broken 100 in singles quite a few times, but meh, Doubles is more fun.

    Might try leading with:
    Latios @ Wide Lens / White Herb / Focus Sash / Life Orb
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Protect
    - Something else (Psychic/Thunderbolt/HP Ground 70 which mine has)

    Vaporeon @ ? / Wacan / Lum / Leftovers (probably not lefties, not that useful)
    - Helping Hand
    - Haze
    - Protect
    - Icy Wind / Brine (my current one has Brine so I dunno if I want to get rid of it lol)
    --> Yes I know Icy Wind and Haze together is counter-intuitive, but the point is that after a Draco Meteor, the faster opponent is probably dead, so Haze to cancel out the DM SpA drop.

    Then probably something with Earthquake and maybe Explosion (Metagross again I guess?)

    Totally just something that came to mind just now (just because I have a good Latios, Vaporeon and Metagross).
  7. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009

    for some quick idea in theory that team sounds very interesting. something on the lines of

    turn 1
    lati protect
    vaporeon icy wind
    AI w/e
    AI w/e

    turn 2
    lati DM problem poke
    Vaporeon hazes
    AI dead
    AI w/e

    etc just rough run through in me head lol duno if it would run as smoothly. although isnt brine pointless on vaporeon due to latis surf rehealing it? but again same with my problem you'l prob need a poke to switch in on electric attacks unless you stick to HP ground but i guess if vappy faints its not your whole game plan out the window lol anyway wont try offer any help unless you want it lol

    i didnt have the time to try my team out in the end but hopefully be able to start a streak today :)
  8. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    @ashez: That's the whole point of DM + Haze and Icy Wind :)

    Brine's base power depends on opponent's HP, not Vap's. 130 base power water attack to finish things off pretty much. That Vaporeon has worked for me in the past in a rain team with Brine to finish things off, but it's hard to find a moveslot for it unless I'm not running Protect or Helping Hand. Helping Hand is definitely needed for a support Pokemon like Vap. Protect is something I might be able to do without if I opt for a rindo or wacan berry, but of course it's either one or the other, so tough choice.

    Meh, I won't have time to play in the next few days. I'll see if I come up with something else. A friend of mine might help me breed a Switcheroo Intimidate Arbok too for that single tower theorymon team.

    EDIT: O yeah, ashez, by the way, if you want to try something fun and haxy, try:
    Togekiss @ something defensive
    Serene Grace
    - Follow Me
    - whatever (Twave, Air Slash, etc.)

    Tauros @ Wide Lens (or kings rock or whatever)
    - Role Play
    - Rock Slide
    - Other 30% side effect moves (Iron Head, Headbutt, Secret Power), but EQ for coverage is pretty much needed.

    Have fun flinching slower opponents after Tauros Role Plays Serene Grace.


    May 9, 2009
    I'm trying to break the Factory Open Level Doubles record, but it's ridiculous. I can only make it out of the first round about half the time, and I've now lost 4 times just short of the record, on fight 30, twice on fight 28, and on fight 27.
  10. darkseeker4


    Nov 24, 2008
    After a 6 month + break, iv decided to comeback to the life known as pokemon. Forgot a lot about it but still remember quite a bit. Hitting the single battle tower for my first run just to get me groove back ya know. So i found 3 random pokemon that go together and I have tried in the past thanks to fasthippo was it? Basic yawn strategy.
    Here are the players:

    Jolteon @ Focus Sash
    252 spe/ rest in defences and hp

    Garchomp @ Lum Berry
    SD chomp. ya know the same one everyone uses more or less.

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Forgot the spread but its split between hp/def/sp.def/att

    Now I need you guys to tell me what I am missing. Any major threats that can kick my arse in a couple of moves or can i pretty much fight anything and win apart from the obvious hax. Any gaping holes??
  11. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Just Gyarados without Sub is going to be more prone to hax.

    I mean... in cases where you set up Gyarados instead of Garchomp, you may potentially lose to:

    Like, the Impish Sheer Cold Lapras has a small chance to survive +6 EQ (even with 252 Attack EVs, which I guess yours probably doesn't), and plus it has QC.

    Focus Sash Jolteon of course beats Gyarados and then might baton pass out to something else that can take on Garchomp, so if you face sash Jolteon as 2nd pokemon and the 3rd is something that can take a hit from Garchomp, Garchomp's dead too.

    Lax Incense Jolteon ... same deal, except it can hurt Garchomp with Shadow Ball. having Substitute doesn't eliminate this problem but certainly lowers Jolteon's chance of winning significantly (it has Thunder so having sub at least makes it more likely to miss over a few turns).

    Similar deal with Bright Powder Manectric (which also outspeeds Garchomp)... Not like you can't beat them or anything, but just slightly lower chance without sub.

    EDIT: Currently at 98 streak in Double Battle Tower with:
    - Latios / Timid @ Life Orb (Dragon Pulse / Surf / HP Ground 70 / Protect)
    - Vaporeon / Bold @ Leftovers (Helping Hand / Protect / Brine / Icy Wind)
    - Gengar / Timid @ Focus Sash (Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Energy Ball / Destiny Bond)
    - Metagross / Jolly @ Lum Berry (Explosion / Bullet Punch / Thunderpunch / Earthquake)

    ... funny how things worked out, because now I actually find Life Orb Dragon Pulse to be most likely more useful than Wide Lens Draco Meteor (missing isn't fun). My Latios didn't love me enough so I couldn't get the lady to teach him Draco Meteor, so I figured I'd give Dragon Pulse a try, since I was having trouble deciding how to fit Haze on Vaporeon anyway (and now I don't have to since there's much less need). The other two pokemon were ones I used already before in previous Double Battle Tower teams (except got a Jolly Metagross now. The one in my previous 145 streak was Adamant).

    Anyway, even at 40-ish streak I was starting to see potential problems with 3 special attackers. But then it's all a matter of how you battle I guess. There have been a few close calls, but of course I still have the streak going, so I might as well see how far this gets me. This lead was surprisingly interesting:
    Gallade + Medicham...

    Doesn't seem that hard to handle, but for some reason AI always "out-predicted" me so far. Helping Hand + Dragon Pulse KOs Medicham. Icy Wind followed by Helping Hand Surf also KOs Medicham I think. First time, I tried HH + DP, but Latios got faked out by Medicham followed by Gallade using Night Slash on Latios (didn't KO though, surprisingly). 2nd time, I tried Vap Icy Wind + Latios Protect but Medicham and Gallade both attacked Vaporeon (Gallade had Leaf Blade). 3rd time, I tried to do Helping Hand + DP again, but nope, got faked out, hah.

    Almost lost to a Blissey because I didn't want to explode with Metagross but it countered Metagross to dealth, but good that it was at red health already after the Tpunch, so it was barely KO'd by Dragon Pulse + Thunderbolt.

    Funny the DT Power Trick Shuckle actually scared me a bit (recall, only one physical attacker in my team) since it was paired with Tyranitar. But of course GyroBall ended up being 3HKO on Metagross even after power trick, and, Metagross's Bullet Punch never landed after a few DTs, but good ol Vaporeon 3HKOs it with 2 65BP STAB brines followed by a 130BP one.
  12. darkseeker4


    Nov 24, 2008
    But taunt helps with DT and status upper moves and what not. Like Iron defence on registeel is it? but maybe SUb will work. ill try it. thanks for the input.
  13. Big E

    Big E

    Dec 10, 2010
    Im going at a hundred battle streak in battle hall with my favorite.

    Lucario@ LifeOrb
    -Swords Dance
    -Close combat
    -Dark Pulse

    Its not getting lucky either, my Lucario is trained well I beleive. I am Hoping to go even farther with him.
  14. Slightly


    Nov 3, 2010
    Why not crunch instead of dark pulse? It's physical, same base power (I'm pretty sure) and same type.

    With a swords dance set it seems silly to use a special move considering you have access to crunch.
  15. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009
    @CD lol that hax team looks pretty interesting lol might have to look into it some day

    on a different note i managed to try a streak and lost around battle 80-85 (cnt remember aint got ds to hand) and was going ok till i got hit by quick claw, after it i worked out i could of still won if i messed around with protect etc but will give it one or two more trys before i ditch the idea lol. so should have more an idea on teams worth by end week/middle of next.

    also liking your all out attack team and take it you have ready broke 100 with it by now so looking good, looks strong on paper. i also had alot of the AI out thinking me like switch elec in only for the obvious electric attack turn out to be a unstabed bug/fire move to abomas face (cant protect due to need to protect 2nd turn to fire of a earthquake, o yeah reminds me did decide to stick to quake lol)

    that shuckle can be a right pain in the arse, hasnt beaten me before but came close to loosing once when i had to PP stall one vs my roserade if i remember correctly it struggled to death turn before i would have or something equally close lol but was a while ago.

    @darkseeker - i'm not that good in singles but sub is defo needed, its one the most important moves in tower

    @big E - aint got time to go into it massively but you'l need more than one lucario set to counter each type, also focus sash is almost a must, if a fire/ground move poke gets a quick claw its game over. my highest streak in hall was with a sash heracross really enjoyed it actually might have to give it another soon. also for that set defo go with crunch over dark pulse.


    Mar 9, 2010
    i've been using FastHippo's Uxie/Tran/Chomp team and i just broke 100 with it and it's pretty solid with just Garchomp as the sweeper. no problems as of now but i'm sure there will be one soon.
    i recorded battle #102 vs a PI and QC activated 3 times straight while asleep which is ridiculous.
    here's the video no.: 38-43201-53665
  17. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    I just lost my double tower streak at 109. ... To a grass team of all things lol (3 of the 4 pokemon in my team resist grass).

    ... Of course it's pretty much impossible to lose to a grass team unless... there's Abomasnow present. Team was Abomasnow + Ludicolo lead (Ludicolo had Blizzard, of course), Leafeon, and Breloom. After a couple misplays, it was down to Gengar vs Breloom both full health, but since it was hailing Gengar's sash was useless. Shadow ball fails to OHKO Breloom and Stone Edge of course kicks Gengar's butt.

    Meh. I dunno why, I wanted to try something else anyway so I guess it's a good time now.
  18. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009
    i get like that half way in a streak i'l just come up with an idea then completely missplay with current team out of excitement of trying out the new one lol

    havent tried the aboma-mie team since but having a little experiment with some my favorite pokes, cause i think tower gets old/boring when using pokes which you dont really like lol so rebuilding my joy for the tower ha!

    but i'm going to keep this team secret because doubt it'l work lol but if i get a suprise i'l be sure to post it although the team is mega gimmicky lol

    unlucky on your loss there btw, shocking it got beat by grass tho i woulda thought that was least your worries lol, but least you also get to try out a new team :)
  19. Hutch3


    Dec 18, 2009
    Bumping this back up to a new page so it doesn't get buried...
    Just got a streak of 39 in the battle factory open level. Lost with a team of Donphan (EQ, gunk shot, focus blast, counter), Raichu (thunder punch, thunderwave, focus punch, sweet kiss), Sceptile (leaf storm, focus blast, dragon pulse, hyper beam). I'll post proof later.

    Edit: Just realized I didn't put the game, but this was on Soul Silver

    How I lost...

    Glaceon vs. Donphan-I stay in hoping he can survive an Ice Beam or a blizzard miss
    Glaceon uses Blizzard-OHKO
    I send in Raichu next
    Raichu uses thunderwave
    Glaceon is paralyzed and can't move
    Raichu uses sweet kiss
    Glaceon is confused and hurts itself in confusion (at this point I'm thinking I've got a shot)
    I use focus punch...Raichu is tightening it's focus...
    Glaceon is confused...Glaceon uses Blizzard...critical hit, Raichu faints
    So I realize I'm screwed and send in Sceptile
    Sceptile uses dragon pulse, doesn't kill
    Glaceon is paralyzed and can't move
    Sceptile uses dragon pulse and kills Glaceon
    Opponent sends out Gyarados...gg
    2 leaf storms didn't kill it and it killed me with a stone edge and waterfall...never even got to see the 3rd pokemon.

    Proof... [​IMG] If it needs to be bigger let me know and I'll see what I can do.
  20. hoiboy


    Dec 21, 2010
    Meh, I reached 69 in Diamond/Pearl Singles (O.o) with Starmie, Scizor, and Heatran. My Starmie used trick and locked a Zapdos into Thunder, which hit killed my Starmie and Heatran. Then a Moltres screwed over my Scizor.

    My strategy was to use Starmie to lock the opponent into a move, then set up a couple SD's with Scizor, and then bullet punch the hell out of everyone else. Heatran revengekilled anything that KO'ed Scizor (which in theory should really only be Fire-types).
  21. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    Currently at 77 streak in Single Battle Tower in HG... meh, probably not worth it to even mention the team until I get higher streak, maybe at least 150.

    Just saying for now:
    - 1 pokemon is an extremely commonly used BT pokemon
    - 1 pokemon is a somewhat mediocrely commonly used BT pokemon
    - 1 pokemon is a never used BT pokemon (Oh, and it's NOT the Switcheroo Arbok I mentioned earlier)

    EDIT: currently at 112, but not sure if I have that much time to play in the next couple days...
    EDIT2: Lol, ok, I guess if I make time for it, I can actually play a bit more... currently at 238. I'll make a post about the team, etc. when I lose or when I break 300, whichever one comes first.
    EDIT3: Nevermind!
  22. ashez


    Aug 13, 2009
    Good luck cd :)

    Looking forward to hearing your team :)

    Tad late and tad drunk but merry holidays battle tower people :)
  23. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    I was originally gonna wait until I either lose or break 300, but then I saw on the record list that 7. EonADS (383) and 8. typhlosion23 (272)

    ... I'm probably not getting to 383 soon. Plus I was supposed to be doing work today instead of playing, which means extra work the next few days = no play lol.

    Anyway! Streak is still going as you can see:

    Click Show if you want to see how this team was made and such (Warning: I tend to blab on about stuffs) (open)

    If you've read some of my earlier posts on this thread, you'd probably get the idea that I don't want to totally copy another person's team, or even too similar. You know, I want to have at least some sort of originality to my play, or else it's really not that fun.

    Obviously Trick-Scarf strategies have proven itself to be the most successful strategy. (I've tried Protect/Encore/Memento/Worry Seed Jumpluff before... it's decent but just not quite as good, only got me as far as 132 streak.) So, yeah, I knew I was going to use a Trick-Scarf lead.

    Originally I had one main idea in mind, but there were problems, which were then refined (some just by theorymon, some by actual battling), until I got the team today. The idea I had in mind (which I thought was as least somewhat original) was Baton Passing.

    Trick leads work best based on resistances, and I actually wanted something to pass defenses to a sweeper like Latios (just because at the time a couple months ago I just learned RNGing and event Latios was the first thing I RNGd).

    I looked into a few options for pairing with Latios:
    1. Togekiss - Bug and Ghost resistance/immunity would go well with Latios. I was thinking I can get something else (like Metagross) with Dragon and Ice resistance for tricking. ... Trick-gross, Togekiss Baton Passer, Latios... seems ok. Only thing unresisted is Dark. Metagross isn't that great of a trick lead though with limited support movepool. Togekiss also cannot pass much other than DT and Sub.

    2. Vaporeon - Resists Ice, can BP Acid Armor. Maybe aqua ring even, or Double Team. Not bad! I forgot why I didn't go with this one. I think it might be because of the lack of other resistances (Bug/Ghost/Dark not covered if using Trick Gross lead).

    3. Umbreon - A worse Vaporeon really. Typing is not bad, but it doesn't get Acid Armor. Baton passing Curse is not something Latios appreciates that much haha.

    At this point I did think about using something NOT Latios, since that seems to be limiting everything. But well, Salamence doesn't have the electric resistance Latios has. I'd never use a Garchomp other than in Battle Factory. Dragonite I've used before already (it's fine, but Salamence is kind of better with Intimidate). For Steels, Registeel is quite over used in BT already (and I don't like how it is rather prone to hax), though it's a possibility. Lucario is too frail (and I don't like having to rely on Salac for outspeeding... I mean there's Agility / CM / Sub / Flash Cannon I guess, but I doubt even +6 Flash Cannon is beating Heatran any time soon). With one attacking move that just isn't going to work. Scizor too. I suppose BPing Double teams to Scizor might be good (making it have an easier time vs fire types), but I didn't go that route.

    4. Scizor - I actually liked this guy as a BPer. Iron Defense / Double Team / Sub / Baton Pass... Sounds good. However, when I was making the team... [Trick-Scarfer], Scizor, Latios... I know I wanted something with Rock and Flying resistance. Metagross won't do since it's too similar to Scizor, and also I found out that it was too easy to lose, because once Scizor gets a Sp Def Drop from Shadow ball, Gengar can break Scizor's sub.

    5. Mawile - Lol, why this over Scizor? Well, for one, this thing does have that rock and flying resistance. The only pure steel BPer, same typing as Registeel, which means perfect resistance combo with Latios. What about that Shadow Ball problem though? If I remember correctly (I might not have though), Mawile has it even worse, because even with max Sp Def Gengar still breaks its sub, so I figured that's where Togekiss comes in.

    Finally we got a team!
    - Togekiss Serene Grace @ Scarf (Standard Trick/Twave/Charm/Flash)
    - Mawile Intimidate @ Brightpowder (Iron Defense / Double Team / Sub / Baton Pass)
    - Latios Levitate @ Leftovers (CM / Dragon Pulse / Sub / Recover)

    ... lost at 112 streak. MANY other close calls vs ice teams. Mawile doesn't fare well vs ice things lol. I don't even remember how I lost, but it was obvious that that's not working.

    Then I took a break from all that and thought about using Switcheroo Arbok since Intimidate Trick leads sounds kind of cool (and Arbok's weakness = Latios' resistances).

    I was way too lazy (and busy) to breed myself a good Switcheroo Arbok though (egg move and all, lol. I used to be not that lazy). A friend of mine says he can do it for me but wants me to RNG him a timid flawless Mewtwo. Seeing how RNGing a Mewtwo won't take me much time, I said sure. But then I ended up trying to teach him how to RNG instead of RNGing for him, which took way too long, and also I haven't RNG'd anything for a couple months due to school, so I kind of needed to get myself back to it too. I decided I'd try to RNG for a Timid Latias too... might as well.

    And then something struck me. WHY didn't I try to use a Latias Trick Lead? That way I can have the Dragon + steel combo, and then get my last pokemon to sweep. It didn't take much more than a second to think of the last pokemon, and... that almost became the team of today!

    Standard Trick-Scarf Latias (with Flash not Recover)
    Mawile @ Lum Berry* (Iron Defense / Double Team / Sub / BP)
    Suicune @ Leftovers (CM / Sub / Surf / Shadow Ball)

    *Originally (in the Togekiss/Mawile/Latios team) I had Bright Powder and I also tried Sitrus. For whatever reason Lum never came to mind, but it was obviously the best option imo.

    Why Suicune? Well, I wanted something that can sweep even if potentially Mawile couldn't hold his ground. Also, that big ice resistance is nice. Yes it's not quite the standard Suicune, if there is actually such a thing, because standard Suicune doesn't even have Sub, which is a big no no. I went for Shadow Ball over Ice Beam, simply because I wanted to 2HKO the Perish Song Politoed (potentially water absorb). There are other reasons too, but mainly I think Water + Ghost gives the best neutral coverage. Ice Beam does get me those grass types, but well, so far Shadow Ball has been fine.

    However, that's not quite the team I have. There were a couple things:
    1. I found that Mawile doesn't really ever need to use Double team, because Suicune's a beast (literally lol) and doesn't need that kind of thing lol. Ok, actually, Mawile just doesn't have time to DT, because Iron Defense along with Suicune's Pressure and Calm Mind already takes up a lot of PP. Double Teaming just makes it so that Suicune can't get all of its Calm Minds down before opponent faints.

    2. The strong Shadow Ball/Ice Beam/Dragon Pulse breaking Mawile's subs is STILL a problem (not so much the ice beams because Suicune can take those, but not having Mawile BP a sub means Suicune might get frozen upon entry).

    Of course, Mawile has just the solution to fix both of those problems, in the form of Stockpile! Man, this was way too wordy...

    Team and other stuff (open)

    Latias / Levitate / Timid @ Choice Scarf
    - EVs: 252 HP 148 Def 108 Speed
    - IVs: 31 / 17 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
    - Trick / Twave / Charm / Flash

    Mawile / Intimidate / Careful or Calm (forgot haha) @ Lum Berry
    - EVs: 252 HP 4 Def 252 Sp Def (I think)
    - IVs: 31 / x / 31 / x / 31 / 31
    - Iron Defense / Stockpile / Sub / Baton Pass

    Suicune / Pressure / Bold @ Leftovers
    - EVs: 228HP 252 Def 24 SpA 4 Speed
    - IVs: 31 / x / 31 / 30 / 31 / 31
    - Calm Mind / Substitute / Surf / Shadow Ball

    About EVs:
    - Latias: Speed to outspeed neutral base 85s that have no speed EVs after tricking scarf. Important (or what I thought was important) ones include: Pinsir, Heracross, Articuno. I ended up always Twaving Articuno though because I figured I'd always win that way since Suicune walls it to no end, and Mawile doesn't do too bad either.
    - Mawile: Lol, 50 / 85 / 55 Defenses are fairly pathetic. So obviously max HP and Sp Def. At least Intimidate helps out quite a bit on the physical end.
    - Suicune: I saw no reason to get Suicune to 207 HP, since 204 HP (which mine has) still gets the same 51 HP Sub. I'm not even totally sure if 51 HP Sub is needed (thinking potentially some more Sp Def EVs), but it's fine for now so I won't change this. 4 Speed EVs to outspeed other base 85s with no speed EVs, obviously. The rest just put into SpA for attacking a bit harder. I'll see if there's a need to change this later, but like I said, it's working now so not going to change for now.

    About Moves:
    - Latias: Standard, nothing needs to be said.
    - Mawile: WHY both Iron Defense and Stockpile? Well, in some cases, Iron Defense IS quite needed (more for Mawile than Suicune, but Mawile has to survive to BP to Suicune). Stockpile is needed because Strong STAB Ice beams and Shadow Balls (and Dragon Pulses, but haven't seen as much of those) will break Mawile's sub unless Mawile stockpiles.

    Also, Stockpile ensures that Suicune can take a few more neutral hits (e.g. Bug Buzzes and Signal Beams) even before it starts calming up. Ideally, obviously I want to Iron Defense 3 times and BP to Suicune to Calm Mind up, but vs some stronger Special Attackers, Mawile would either Stockpile 3 times (and Iron Defense once if possible), Stockpile twice and Iron Defense once (if it's not as strong of a special attacker), or stockpile once and Iron Defense (once or twice depending on Mawile's health).

    The keys is that Suicune doesn't absolutely NEED the defense boost. It just helps out quite a bit in many situations. Having even +2 Def is good enough, and most of the time (99% or so of the time) so far that's been achieved I think.

    - Suicune: Well, it's basically like the special version of curselax (Sub or Rest / Stat Boost Move / STAB move / Coverage move), except Lax has better Special Bulk (compared to Suicune's physical bulk), but Suicune's special defense is just as amazing as its physical, and Suicune's also faster. Shadow Ball was chosen over Ice Beam mainly to 2HKO Perish Song Politoed, among other things. Yes I do realize my Suicune has HP Electric 70 (duh, I RNG'd it myself), but Water + Electric = cannot hit water absorb Quagsire, so why bother. I might consider Ice Beam later on though if grass types are too much of a nuisance.

    About Battles:
    - The current 280 streak is my 2nd attempt.
    - The first attempt was cut short at 90 when +6 Shadow Ball failed to OHKO Sceptile which then Giga Drained Suicune's low health Sub and then proceeded to crit Suicune with an overgrow Giga drain that OHKO'd Suicune. ALWAYS remember to sub when suicune has a low health sub vs a pokemon faster than suicune! Yes, with ice beam that would not have been a problem, but that was my misplay and not shadow ball's fault.

    Threats that I can remember off the top of my head (I don't really keep track):
    - Sash Guillotine Gliscor - outspeeds Suicune. 9% chance for Guillotine to hit twice in a row. I COULD just keep spamming sub until Guillotines run out I guess. I probably should but I haven't done that the past 3 times encountering this thing, but it also sometimes EQ instead of Guillotine.

    - Lead Choice Band Absol: I twave vs Absol and then let Latias die because Mawile can't afford to switch in on a crit Night Slash. Even at -1, CB Night Slash breaks Mawile's sub, so needs to Iron Defense once (hope for no crit) and then sub. If crit, then it's 72 - 84%. Obviously sub if possible, but if not, then BP to Suicune hoping for not another crit. If Suicune gets in without being crit to death, then at least it has +2 Def to work with. Otherwise it's just an Intimidated CB Absol, which has low chance to break Suicune's sub if no crit. See ***

    - Lead Sheer Cold Articuno: I twave all Articunos. Then it's no problem.

    - Draco Meteor pokemon: It's good that DM has -2SpA attached to it. Mawile just Iron Defense once and BP to Suicune to get 5 CMs I think.

    - Blizzard pokemon: Note (without crit) Latias is not OHKO'd by Blizzard (Glaceon 3 which can OHKO Latias has focus sash so Latias trick will survive the Blizzard with the sash) and outspeeds all Blizzard users even after trick (and so can twave), except for Froslass. Usually, Mawile would stockpile once, iron defense once, sub, and then pass to Suicune to get +3 Calm Mind (more if full paralyses a few times). So that's +3 Def +3SpA +4Sp Def, which is good enough to continue setting up on the next pokemon.

    - Leaf Blade Sceptile: Two critical hit leaf blades in a row = I lose. I was just thinking about that and this was certainly a big consideration to use ice beam over Shadow Ball. +6 Shadow Ball has chance to OHKO Sceptile though. Forgot what that probability was. Most other grass types are slower than Suicune so I wouldn't have to worry about those. I mean, this goes for faster electric pokemon too, but those moves don't have high crit ratio so probability is significantly smaller (I know probably I'll lose my streak to exactly that haha).

    - Lead Kingler: Twave and then switch to Mawile and all is fine. If Mawile is OHKO'd by Guillotine, then Latias comes in to flash until either Guillotine's all gone or Latias is dead. Then Suicune outspeeds and can somewhat easily pressure stall crabhammer (and Guillotine if needed). Flail and Endure won't do anything, of course.

    EDIT: O yeah, Yanmega, forgot about that... always Twave, of course. If Speed Boost, just switch to Mawile and dry baton pass back to Latias to trick (after 2 speed boosts, paralyzed yanmega is faster then mawile, so latias will come in unharmed) and mawile can do its thing. If Tinted Lens, switch to Mawile and stockpile until it can't and bp a sub (if possible) to suicune... meh so far it hasn't been a problem but I also haven't faced many lead yanmegas.

    Interesting Battle (Suicune's pretty cool):
    - Around 260-ish or so I had a battle vs Lead QC Metagross.
    - Metagross got FOUR Attack Boosts from Meteor Mash out of the 8 mashes it had (Suicune took 2 mashes with pressure). After Metagross's last struggle, Suicune was at +6 Def +5 SpA +5 Sp Def, with a sub up at around 90% health. Not bad.

    ***Close Call + Misplay:
    - Battle against CB Absol...
    I didn't Twave. Instead I switched right to Mawile for Intimidate.
    1. Intimidate. NS Critical Hit! Mawile not enough for Sub.
    2. Switch back to Latias. Crit NS dead Latias.
    3. NS no crit, Iron Defense.
    4. NS crit. Mawile dead.
    5. NS no crit. Suicune sub.
    6-onwards = Sub/CM, NS until Absol Struggles (Suicune just CMs without sub on the struggles). NS 2HKOs Sub. Good that Absol didn't get back to back NS crits again during the rest of the NSes or else obviously I lost.

    After Absol fainted, Suicune was at around 20% health with +6 and a sub and I forgot what the other 2 pokemon were, but apparently I won.

    Interesting Pokemon:
    1. Sash Roar Houndoom: As a lead, of course it's not going to use roar, so I'm talking about it being the 2nd or 3rd pokemon. I wouldn't call this a threat, because even if it roars Suicune's stat boosts out, all it takes is one Intimidate from Mawile and Suicune in fairly good position to get 6 CMs up after Mawile and Latias faints so the Houndoom can't roar anymore. For some reason, it also kept using counter even at 1HP. So that made things even easier.

    2. Toxic DT Softboiled Counter Blissey: With all those HP and Sp Def EVs, Suicune can't 2HKO even at +6, and softboiled paired with DT means Blissey can actually stall Suicune out potentially. But thank goodness there's Mawile. If Latias is not dead yet, then even better. Just get Mawile to pass a sub to Latias and then latias flash until blissey is at -6 accuracy (or until flash runs out of pp), then just switch between mawile and latias to pp stall blissey. After a while, just Iron Defense, BP, CM, etc... Blissey's struggles only do 1HP damage.

    That's all I remember for now I think.

    Oh, and I feel fairly proud to get Mawile up there on the rankings lol.
  24. CBshuckle


    May 3, 2009
    got 185 in platinum tower singles...

    trying to get picture proof, but the pics are REALLY blurry.


    Basic team, I used the same countersash destiny bond gengar as in my 139 streak.

    Also, I used an adamant scarfchomp with max attack, enough speed to beat base 130's (so 201 after scarf) with outrage/EQ/dragon claw/fire fang

    Finally, I used a metagross with max attack and 101 speed, with explosion/EQ/Iron head/BP.

    Lost due to a bad decision/stubborness on my part and obscene hax.

    I'd say around 50% of the battles were won without using garchomp... counter/shadow ball/tbolt + destiny bond + explosion took out most teams.

    Garchomp was my revenge killer and so I tried to keep him alive as long as possible.
  25. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Aug 15, 2008
    I decided to play a few more just to try to get to 300, but then my streak ended! Yay! I'm actually kind of relieved for whatever reason. I'm going to try again with this team, but probably going to take it much more slowly from now on (school starting soon and I got a bunch of stuffs to do).

    I was probably a bit crazy typing last night and I figured I should do a more BRIEF write up, so looks like now's a good time to do so.

    Oh I didn't get 300, but at least I got up to 290 streak in DPPt/HGSS Single Battle Tower using this team:

    Latias / Levitate / Timid @ Choice Scarf
    - IVs: 31 / 17 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
    - EVs: 252 HP 148 Def 108 Speed
    - Trick / Thunderwave / Flash / Charm

    Mawile / Intimidate / Calm @ Lum Berry
    - IVs: 31 / ?? / 31 / ?? / 31 / 31
    - EVs: 252 HP 4 Def 252 Sp Def
    - Iron Defense / Stockpile / Substitute / Baton Pass

    Suicune / Pressure / Bold @ Leftovers
    - IVs: 31 / ?? / 31 / 30 / 31 / 31
    - EVs: 228 HP 252 Def 24 SpA 4 Speed
    - Calm Mind / Substitute / Surf / Shadow Ball

    - Like most Trick-Scarf strategy, the key is to trick the opponent into a move and then cripple it and set up with a sweeper. Trick happens around 95% of the time with this team. The other 5% of the time most likely it's Twave first, though there might be times where I switch to Mawile for Intimidate right away (can't think of an example though).
    - Latias is EV'd to outspeed base 85s with no speed after tricking scarf, the rest into defenses.
    - Unlike most (or more likely all other) Trick-Scarf strategies, this team uses Baton Passing as one of its core stat boosting methods. Mawile might have pathetic base stats (50/85/55) but it is fairly valuable with its resistances (really good paired up with either Latias or suicune as it resists all of Latias' weaknesses and one of Suicune's). It is the only steel type baton passer (there are only 2 lol) that can pass both defense boosts and special defense boosts.

    What happens most of the time:
    - 1st Turn: Trick.
    - 2nd Turn: Twave.
    - 3rd Turn: If Latias not dead, then switch to Mawile to boost up, or Flash a few times first if it's a special attacker or if it's going to faint soon.
    - 4th Turn onwards: Mawile stats up (ideally to +6 Def) to baton pass to Suicune. If Suicune can take a critical hit with >50% health left from whatever locked attack, then Mawile won't bother passing a sub, because Mawile's Subs are only 39 HP while Suicune's is 51. Again if Suicune can take the critical hit, it'll just Calm Mind without a sub. Most (95%) non-critical hit struggles at -1Attack and +6Def will only do 3HP damage to Suicune. It's better for Suicune to have a 48HP Sub with 75% (+6.25% from leftovers) health after opponent lead faints than to have a low HP Sub with 100% health.

    For status moves, Latias Twaves after trick then switches to Mawile. Mawile's Lum gets used up but is faster due to Latias's Twave and subs up before the status moves hits again. Then Iron Defense and BP to Suicune for Calm Minding. Almost the same thing for weather moves, except Mawile doesn't bother passing Sub to Suicune since Suicune's sub's bigger. For Abomasnow / Hippowdon / Tyranitar leads, Mawile will always try to pass a sub to Suicune.

    How I lost:
    - I think lead of Ice Punch Medicham. Latias fainted. Mawile passed +6Def to Suicune who got 6 Calm Minds and a sub. 2nd pokemon was Arcanine which used Sunny Day but Suicune still KO'd it with Surf. 3rd pokemon was:

    689,Rapidash 3,Adamant,BrightPowder,140,167,90,90,100,157,Flare Blitz,Poison Jab,Iron Tail,Horn Drill,Attk/Speed

    Just from looking at that you can probably tell how I lost.
    Turn 1: Horn Drill hits. Surf MISSES.
    Turn 2: Horn Drill hits. Suicune dead.
    Turn 3: Flare Blitz KOs Mawile.

    So I think I mentioned in my long long post 2 posts ago how I probably should probably just keep subbing when vs-ing Sash Guillotine Gliscor. As annoying and slow as that is, yeah, ok, I get it. Lol, I'll do that next time for any OHKOer that's faster than Suicune that Suicune can't guarantee OHKOing (whether it be brightpowder or sash or whatever).

    But yeah, I'm still happy that at least I got to use something original that no body else used before to at least some degree of success. I'll aim for 300+ next time for sure. Uh, I can take another photo if wanted, but it's only 10 more than the photo of 280 anyway.

    EDIT: OH YEAH, one thing I found was that Charm on Latias was surprisingly rarely ever even needed because of Mawile's Intimidate (and Iron Defenses). I keep thinking there are times where I'd charm my leads instead of Trick or Twave, but I actually can't remember. There ARE times where I'd use Charm after tricking to soften things up for Mawile, but most of those times it's not really even necessary. It's more like "I can so I might as well". MAYBE I'll consider getting rid of Charm for something else (Skill Swap? Recover? Protect for Sash Guillotine Gliscor? Wish? Mist Ball for lowering SpA lol?) and see if those might be better. EDIT3: Or healing wish... actually looks interesting. Something that Mawile might appreciate. Also allows to bypass mean Look Jynx.

    EDIT2: Alternatively, Latios with Memento to provide a safe switch in for Mawile (and also to get pass that Mean Look Jynx, but whatever - it used Lovely Kiss everytime so far) might be better than Charm. Latias does have that nice extra bulk though so I dunno.

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