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Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    that´s exactly what I was talking about, the the AI always finds a way, no matter how absolutely absurd and improbable it has to be...

    sorry man, you know that we know that you deserve 500 like noone else does and at first I thought it was another "insanely awful start, happy end" post, but it wasn´t (and I called CH sky attack note: my tests din´t show it though, right when reading that moltres started to glow, it´s a high CH move and with the improved ratio it always does), so 500 is kind of a magical streak number now :/

    very nice read of course, that´s the way the best aproaches battles to minimalize the low % of losing, would´ve been a perfect post #1000 in this topic if you´d have waited for a few more posts ;)

    as for my challenges, despite them being very poor so far, I am not giving up

    the team is very solid and I didn´t theorymon all of the leads which was a mistake, because charming staraptor is the way to go, only the CB one can "harm" steel (cc) and it will lock itself into brave bird anyway...so it was my mistake again and machamp´s cross chops can get and will get CHs, because of the improved hax the AI has on its side

    ...I know this is worth nothing at such low streaks, but I missed two +6 outrages in a row yesterday against powder charizard which was also mean

    good luck with CLS in the plat. frontier, believe me, the hax there is even worse without your battle armor :o
  2. Shelcario

    Shelcario

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    Too bad Jumpman about the 1 battle away from the 500 mark, so I'm guessing you're giving up playing the Pearl battle Tower?
  3. NinRac

    NinRac

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    :: finishes a deep exhale::

    Wow....that was an intense read, Jumpman. Just...where to begin but Battle Tower seems like a cruel taunting game towards the players daring them to "just go a little further" until it finally sets you to a goal where your goal is high enough that the A.I. has enough time to finally setup that unimaginable odds to finally trick your near perfect setup. I still applaude your hard work because it is still a challenge to all of us as "to dethrone the king, be ready for a VERY long haul to truly define yourself".

    But this is why I'm going to keep trying to beat any of your records in any part I can since I doubt I'll reach any of your battle tower records this generation.
  4. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    yeah, i dont post that if it happens at 470 or like 511...might get something similar at 501 but i really doubt i care since i knew this was my last stand

    thanks...also sky attack isnt a high ch move, it has a chance to flinch, unless it's the BT where the CH chance is like 25% anyway lol

    plat should be "fun" i guess, pokemon sucks and going for record is inherently not fun =/

    yeah there's no point, i'll just take out my "anger" on plat. like i said at the end i dont need that much luck against me to lose and what's the point of trying to break 500 again when i already have the record? would rather play plat
  5. lati0s

    lati0s

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    "Add" this all up and you have a 0.00000369557% chance of a loss"

    That is actually an extremely misleading statistic because it is not the chance that you would have lost the battle, it is the chance that you would have lost the battle in the exact way you did. Don't think that they are they same. There are a lot of other unlucky scenarios that could have led to a loss, you didn't even know if latios would be able to beat his last pokemon even if it didn't get critted.

    good job anyway, and too bad about the hax.
  6. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    and post #999 in this topic goes to none other than METAGROSS

    battle #72, ace trainer set4

    latias vs metagross
    R1: latias used trick, metagross used meteor mash, CH, latias fainted, attack boost #1
    registeel vs metagross
    R2: metagross used meteor mash, attack boost #2, registeel used curse
    R3: metagross used meteor mash, registeel used curse
    R4: metagross used meteor mash, attack boost #3, registeel used curse
    R5: metagross used meteor mash, attack boost #4, registeel used curse
    R6: metagross used meteor mash, registeel used curse
    R7: metagross used meteor mash, registeel used iron head
    R8: metagross used meteor mash, registeel used iron head
    R9: metagross used meteor mash, registeel fainted
    garchomp vs metagross
    R10: garchomp used earthquake, metagross fainted
    garchomp vs walrein
    R11: garchomp used outrage, walrein used ice beam, garchomp fainted

    ...how´s that? a CH and 4 attack boosts in 5 rounds, that´s kind of cool, don´t you think?

    the team worked absolutely perfect until this moment but please tell me what anyone could do against this? way to waste hours of time for nothing, again (39 + 72 battles today)

    EDIT: saved the battle and watched it, boost #3 and #4 were one after another so 4 boosts in 5 rounds ._.
    anyway, I think I should have gone to garchomp, SD and earthquake (+1 MM does 172 max to my chomp), +2 outrage would´ve OHKOed walrein as well...hmm so a different approach maybe next time?
    the thing with latias is that I gave it purposely 158 speed to outspeed some 105 ones after trick etc. and with timid I can´t EV my latias so that it 100% survives a CH MM turn1 which sucks...yeah I could lower speed and raise def, but then it´s like a 50/50 OHKO if he CHs
  7. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

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    I liked how you hated metagross so much that you had him faint twice hehe. But yah, that's pretty ridiculous.
  8. darkseeker4

    darkseeker4

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    Well congrats jumpman on your crazy streak and to bad that you could'nt hit 500 but yeah the last few posts have been examples of how ridiculous and unforgiving the battle tower can really be.

    And just a thought.Bibarel counters metagross pretty well being half water and having the ability to ignore stat changes or double it's own.If only it had aqua jet it would be uber :p
  9. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    bibarel gets quick attack (and waterfall)

    if a registeel doesn´t beat (set up on) a metagross locked into MM then nothing does

    as for the other two succesful trick teams (you know which ones I am talking about), the tricksters may not die turn1 to the CH and manage a t-wave, but seriously you can´t set up on that thing with scizor, hell, even the struggles are deadly...

    yeah I´m mass trading items to diamond right and will restart the game after catching a few leggies, I know it won´t help because it´s not my trainer ID or anything, it´s the awfully improved AI hax


    EDIT: @ below, there are still CHs and bibarel is not usable...just try to make a moveset that both beats metagross and doesn´t suck against the rest of the BT ;)
  10. darkseeker4

    darkseeker4

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    registeel lost cause of attack boosts bibarel has hope with unaware and rest :/

    @above,you have a point guess It can counter metagoss but cannot counter a whole lot of the tower.Cause sub/rest takes up 2 slots and without rest then curse amnesia is there but then only one slot for attacking which cannot be quick attack,so yeah no hope!
  11. lone

    lone

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    Here is something I've been theorymoning for a while, but have not yet got around to breeding ingame to test out. Note that this is for use in the Battle Hall.


    Battle Hall Weavile

    Adamant-Focus Sash
    252 Att, 252 Speed, 4 Hp
    -Night Slash
    -Brick Break
    -Ice Punch/Fake Out/Ice Shard
    -Counter



    Basically this Weavile using solid STAB coverage busts through a majority of the enemies in the Battle Hall with its 372 Attack and 349 Speed. Adamant is greatly preferred here since you need all the attack you can get, and also since even with a neutral nature you are only outsped by 5 things (Dugtrio, Alakazam, Crobat, Electrode, and Ninjask.)


    I've been looking over the list and the biggest obstacles and here are what I have so far.



    H411 | Scizor | Brave | Focus Sash | Swords Dance | X-Scissor | Counter | Bullet Punch | HP/Atk

    The King of OU usage gives Weavile some problems, but not because of what it can do but because of what Weavile can't do. With Counter+Ice Shard/Fake Out you will beat Scizor 100% of the time, but that isn't the issue. The issue is by using one of the priorities over Ice Punch you may beat Scizor but you are much more open to Fighting types such as Machamp and Hariyama, as well as the surplus of bulky Grounds.


    H449 | Bronzong | Quiet | Leftovers | Extrasensory | Flash Cannon | Trick Room | Protect | Def/SpA

    If Bronzong was physically based it would be a piece of cake, but unfortunately it is of the special variety. As an added bonus, it is EV'd in defense which means Night Slash is at best a 3HKO after a Fake Out, and there is the possibility that leftovers make it a 4HKO, especially since this lovely thing has Protect to rack up some leftovers. For this particular battle your honestly best bet is praying that the 25% critical hit chance lands and you knock this one down.


    Will be updated as I run more calcs and get more data. I should have this thing ingame ready to go in a day or two max, so expect more info then.

    Comments are welcome.
  12. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    there you go...long, long time ago, I did an incomplete weavile theorymon

    weavile is not getting through poliwrath, ever, so you have to do water & fighting first


    1 (lv.42) water – lv.50 – fake out, brick break, night slash, counter – adamant – 174 HP / 252 attack / 84 speed
    2 (lv.43) fighting – lv.50 – fake out, brick break, aerial ace, ice shard – adamant – 252 HP / 252 attack / 6 spD
    3 (lv.43) fire – lv.50 – fake out, brick break, night slash, aerial ace – adamant – 252 HP / 252 attack / 6 spD
    4 (lv.44) electric – lv.50 – brick break, ice punch, ice shard, night slash – adamant – 6HP / 252 attack / 252 speed
    5 (lv.50) steel – lv.50 – brick break, night slash, ice shard, counter
    6 (lv.45) dark – lv.50 – brick break, ice punch, ice shard, counter
    7 (lv.45) psychic - lv.50 - night slash, ice punch, counter, ???? (ice shard)
    8 (lv.46) poison - lv.50 - fake out, night slash, ice punch, counter
    9 (lv.46) rock - lv.50 - brick break, ice punch/ice shard, night slash, counter
    10 ground
    11 ghost
    12 ice
    13 normal – lv.50 – brick break, ice punch, ice shard, counter
    14 bug
    15 grass
    16 dragon
    17 flying

    (01-10) WATER TYPE -
    H284 | Slowbro | Modest | Sitrus Berry | Water Pulse | Psychic | Ice Beam | Flamethrower | HP/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H307 | Lanturn | Modest | Sitrus Berry | Discharge | Brine | Signal Beam | Ice Beam | HP/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H287 | Dewgong | Modest | Chesto Berry | Signal Beam | Ice Beam | Brine | Rest | Def/SpA -> fake out + brick break
    H289 | Kingler | Adamant | Focus Sash | Crabhammer | X-Scissor | Superpower | Dig | HP/Atk -> fake out + counter
    H297 | Seadra | Modest | Scope Lens | Dragon Pulse | Hydro Pump | Flash Cannon | Ice Beam | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H298 | Seaking | Adamant | BrightPowder | Megahorn | Waterfall | Poison Jab | Bounce | Atk/Spd -> counter
    H304 | Omastar | Modest | Wise Glasses | AncientPower | Hydro Pump | Ice Beam | Earth Power | HP/SpA -> fake out + brick break
    H305 | Kabutops | Adamant | Muscle Band | Night Slash | Waterfall | Stone Edge | X-Scissor | HP/Atk -> counter / fake out + brick break
    H311 | Slowking | Modest | Leftovers | Psychic | Water Pulse | Power Gem | Shadow Ball | SpA/SpD -> fake out + night slash
    H316 | Octillery | Brave | Scope Lens | Octazooka | Gunk Shot | Rock Blast | Seed Bomb | Atk/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H317 | Mantine | Mild | Expert Belt | Signal Beam | Earthquake | Surf | Aerial Ace | Spd/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H322 | Ludicolo | Modest | Leftovers | Giga Drain | Water Pulse | Rain Dance | Ice Beam | Def/SpA -> fake out + night slash (73-87 / 132)
    H331 | Sharpedo | Adamant | Focus Sash | Crunch | Waterfall | Ice Fang | Zen Headbutt | Atk/Spd -> fake out + brick break
    H341 | Whiscash | Quiet | Lax Incense | Earth Power | Water Pulse | Future Sight | Blizzard | SpA/SpD -> night slash 2HKO (94-112 / 157)
    H342 | Crawdaunt | Adamant | Quick Claw | Crunch | Crabhammer | Body Slam | Aerial Ace | Atk/Def -> counter / fake out + night slash
    H351 | Huntail | Adamant | Muscle Band | Aqua Tail | Crunch | Body Slam | Bounce | Atk/SpD -> counter / night slash
    H352 | Gorebyss | Modest | Wise Glasses | Psychic | Brine | Signal Beam | Shadow Ball | SpA/SpD -> fake out + night slash
    H353 | Relicanth | Brave | Shell Bell | Head Smash | Aqua Tail | Earth Power | Double-Edge | HP/Atk -> counter / brick break 2HKO (86-102 / 175)
    H358 | Floatzel | Adamant | Liechi Berry | Waterfall | Crunch | Ice Punch | Brick Break | Atk/Spd -> night slash
    H360 | Gastrodon | Modest | Lax Incense | Muddy Water | Earth Power | Blizzard | Sludge Bomb | HP/SpA -> night slash 2HKO (100-118 / 184)
    H370 | Lumineon | Timid | BrightPowder | Silver Wind | Ominous Wind | Water Pulse | Air Cutter | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H376 | Blastoise | Quiet | Focus Sash | Yawn | Hydro Cannon | Return | Protect | SpA/SpD -> fake out + night slash
    H378 | Golduck | Mild | Petaya Berry | Brine | Aqua Jet | Hydro Pump | Return | Spd/SpA -> fake out + night slash 91-108 / 132
    H380 | Poliwrath | Quiet | Zoom Lens | Focus Blast | Surf | Hypnosis | Vacuum Wave | Def/SpA -> ... ... ... I lose ... ... ...
    H382 | Tentacruel | Adamant | BrightPowder | Waterfall | Poison Jab | Toxic | Dive | Atk/SpD -> night slash
    H385 | Cloyster | Rash | Scope Lens | Ice Beam | Iron Defense | Spike Cannon | Brine | Atk/SpA -> fake out + brick break
    H388 | Starmie | Timid | BrightPowder | Hydro Pump | Psychic | Recover | Double Team | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H392 | Lapras | Modest | Lum Berry | Blizzard | Surf | Rest | Sleep Talk | HP/SpA -> fake out + brick break
    H393 | Vaporeon | Mild | Expert Belt | Surf | Quick Attack | Aqua Ring | Yawn | HP/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H391 | Gyarados | Lonely | Life Orb | Bounce | Waterfall | Dragon Dance | Brine | Atk/Spd -> fake out + night slash
    H404 | Feraligatr | Naive | Salac Berry | Aqua Tail | Slash | Endure | Rain Dance | Atk/Spd -> counter / fake out + night slash
    H407 | Politoed | Modest | Lax Incense | Hyper Voice | Surf | Rest | Snore | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H416 | Kingdra | Modest | Scope Lens | Dragon Pulse | Hydro Pump | Yawn | Brine | Spd/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H422 | Suicune | Bold | Sitrus Berry | Mirror Coat | Facade | Hydro Pump | Reflect | Def/SpD -> fake out + night slash
    H426 | Swampert | Quiet | BrightPowder | Muddy Water | Mud Bomb | Substitute | Rest | SpA/SpD -> night slash 2HKO
    H430 | Wailord | Quiet | BrightPowder | Water Spout | Sleep Talk | Body Slam | Rest | HP/SpA -> night slash
    H433 | Milotic | Quiet | Life Orb | Rest | Sleep Talk | Hydro Pump | Facade | Atk/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H434 | Walrein | Quiet | Icy Rock | Blizzard | Dive | Hail | Brine | HP/SpA -> fake out + brick break
    H445 | Empoleon | Mild | Petaya Berry | Flash Cannon | Hydro Pump | Aqua Jet | Yawn | SpA/SpD -> fake out + brick break

    (11-20) FIRE TYPE
    H2 | Charmander | Lonely | Charcoal | Slash | Fire Fang | Swords Dance | Flamethrower | Atk/Spd -> fake out + night slash
    H17 | Vulpix | Modest | Charcoal | Fire Blast | Quick Attack | Double Team | Swift | Spd/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H52 | Cyndaquil | Hasty | Charcoal | Overheat | Quick Attack | Flare Blitz | SmokeScreen | Atk/Spd -> fake out + night slash
    H73 | Slugma | Hasty | Charcoal | Heat Wave | Acid Armor | Amnesia | Facade | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H77 | Houndour | Hasty | BlackGlasses | Dark Pulse | Flamethrower | Nasty Plot | Sucker Punch | Spd/SpA -> fake out + aerial ace
    H84 | Torchic | Hasty | Charcoal | Flamethrower | Quick Attack | Slash | Swords Dance | Atk/Spd -> fake out + night slash
    H111 | Numel | Mild | Charcoal | Heat Wave | Earth Power | Amnesia | Dig | Spd/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H129 | Chimchar | Mild | Charcoal | Rock Climb | Nasty Plot | Flame Wheel | Swords Dance | Atk/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H156 | Charmeleon | Hasty | Charcoal | Will-O-Wisp | Flare Blitz | Protect | Slash | Atk/Spd -> fake out + night slash
    H169 | Growlithe | Adamant | Charcoal | Flare Blitz | Return | Will-O-Wisp | Flame Wheel | Atk/Spd -> fake out + night slash
    H175 | Ponyta | Jolly | Charcoal | Tail Whip | Flare Blitz | Will-O-Wisp | Return | Atk/Spd -> fake out + night slash
    H190 | Quilava | Timid | Charcoal | Will-O-Wisp | Eruption | Swift | SmokeScreen | Spd/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H211 | Magcargo | Sassy | Charcoal | AncientPower | Light Screen | Recover | Flamethrower | HP/SpD -> brick break / night slash 64-76 / 133
    H214 | Magby | Jolly | Charcoal | Fire Punch | Will-O-Wisp | Confuse Ray | Return | Atk/Spd -> night slash
    H217 | Combusken | Jolly | Charcoal | Sky Uppercut | Fire Punch | Will-O-Wisp | Bulk Up | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H252 | Monferno | Adamant | Charcoal | Flare Blitz | Close Combat | Mach Punch | Will-O-Wisp | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    H302 | Magmar | Adamant | Sitrus Berry | Fire Punch | Iron Tail | Brick Break | Thief | Atk/Spd -> night slash 115-136 / 119
    H332 | Camerupt | Modest | Power Herb | Eruption | Earth Power | AncientPower | SolarBeam | SpA/SpD -> fake out (38-45) + night slash (99-117) / 123
    H333 | Torkoal | Quiet | White Herb | Overheat | Body Slam | Earth Power | Stone Edge | Atk/SpA -> fake out (22-26) + night slash + night slash (57-67) = / 123
    H377 | Ninetales | Mild | White Herb | Will-O-Wisp | Confuse Ray | Quick Attack | Overheat | Spd/SpA -> fake out (36-43) + night slash (93-109) = 129-152 / 126
    H379 | Arcanine | Adamant | Razor Claw | ExtremeSpeed | Flare Blitz | Facade | Will-O-Wisp | Atk/Spd -> fake out + night slash / counter /140 (23-28)+(58-70)+55
    H383 | Rapidash | Lonely | Razor Fang | Flare Blitz | Quick Attack | Stomp | Overheat | Atk/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H395 | Flareon | Mild | Expert Belt | Lava Plume | Quick Attack | Protect | Will-O-Wisp | SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H400 | Moltres | Modest | Razor Claw | Fire Blast | Air Cutter | Sky Attack | Roost | Def/SpA -> fake out + night slash + night slash
    H403 | Typhlosion | Timid | White Herb | Eruption | Quick Attack | Overheat | Swift | Spd/SpA -> fake out + night slash 122-146 / 133
    H415 | Houndoom | Mild | Choice Scarf | Dark Pulse | Flamethrower | Crunch | Fire Fang | Atk/SpA -> fake out + aerial ace / brick break
    H421 | Entei | Rash | Quick Claw | Eruption | Rock Climb | Flamethrower | Fire Fang | Spd/SpA -> fake out + night slash
    H425 | Blaziken | Lonely | Liechi Berry | Blaze Kick | Sky Uppercut | Focus Blast | Quick Attack | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H444 | Infernape | Adamant | Life Orb | Close Combat | Flare Blitz | Mach Punch | Fake Out | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H460 | Magmortar | Mild | Lax Incense | Fire Blast | Hyper Beam | SmokeScreen | Protect | Spd/SpA -> fake out + night slash 100-118 / 130
    H474 | Heatran | Modest | Focus Band | Magma Storm | Flash Cannon | Lava Plume | Metal Sound | SpA/SpD -> brick break 100-118 / 144
    H476 | Charizard | Quiet | Focus Sash | Will-O-Wisp | Air Slash | Protect | Blast Burn | Atk/SpA -> fake out (35-42) + night slash 91-108 / 130

    (21-30) FIGHTING TYPE
    H26 | Mankey | Adamant | Black Belt | Cross Chop | Screech | Foresight | Seismic Toss | Atk/Spd -> aerial ace
    H29 | Machop | Jolly | Black Belt | DynamicPunch | Foresight | Scary Face | Brick Break | Atk/Spd -> aerial ace
    H80 | Tyrogue | Adamant | Black Belt | Mach Punch | Foresight | Bulk Up | Brick Break | Atk/Spd -> aerial ace
    H103 | Makuhita | Adamant | Black Belt | Close Combat | Foresight | Bulk Up | Seismic Toss | HP/Atk -> aerial ace
    H107 | Meditite | Rash | Black Belt | Vacuum Wave | Psychic | Calm Mind | Recover | Spd/SpA -> aerial ace
    H149 | Riolu | Jolly | Black Belt | Quick Attack | Low Kick | Screech | Foresight | Atk/Spd -> aerial ace
    H152 | Croagunk | Modest | Black Belt | Nasty Plot | Vacuum Wave | Sludge Bomb | Double Team | Spd/SpA -> aerial ace
    H217 | Combusken | Jolly | Charcoal | Sky Uppercut | Fire Punch | Will-O-Wisp | Bulk Up | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H252 | Monferno | Adamant | Charcoal | Flare Blitz | Close Combat | Mach Punch | Will-O-Wisp | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H172 | Machoke | Jolly | Black Belt | Cross Chop | Fire Punch | Bulk Up | Light Screen | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H234 | Medicham | Adamant | Black Belt | Psycho Cut | Force Palm | Recover | Double Team | Atk/Def -> fake out + aerial ace + ice shard
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    H280 | Primeape | Adamant | Expert Belt | Cross Chop | Gunk Shot | Seed Bomb | Stone Edge | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H291 | Hitmonlee | Jolly | Salac Berry | Endure | Reversal | Hi Jump Kick | Bounce | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace + ice shard
    H292 | Hitmonchan | Adamant | Choice Band | Sky Uppercut | ThunderPunch | Fire Punch | Ice Punch | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H320 | Hitmontop | Adamant | Salac Berry | Triple Kick | Aerial Ace | Thief | Twister | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H324 | Breloom | Adamant | Expert Belt | Sky Uppercut | Seed Bomb | Stone Edge | ThunderPunch | Atk/Spd -> aerial ace 1HKO
    H328 | Hariyama | Brave | Focus Band | Vital Throw | Payback | Fake Out | ThunderPunch | HP/Atk -> fake out 42-50 + aerial ace 124-148 + aerial ace / 217
    H368 | Toxicroak | Brave | Liechi Berry | Poison Jab | Revenge | Bullet Punch | X-Scissor | Atk/Def -> fake out + aerial ace + ice shard = (28-34) + (86-101) + (42-51) = 156-186 / 137
    H380 | Poliwrath | Quiet | Zoom Lens | Focus Blast | Surf | Hypnosis | Vacuum Wave | Def/SpA -> ... ... ... I wish ... ... ... fake out + aerial ace + aerial ace
    H381 | Machamp | Brave | Focus Band | DynamicPunch | Vacuum Wave | Foresight | Revenge | Atk/Def -> fake out + aerial ace + ice shard = (26-31)+(76-90)+(39-46)=141-167/143
    H413 | Heracross | Jolly | Salac Berry | Megahorn | Close Combat | Facade | Reversal | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H425 | Blaziken | Lonely | Liechi Berry | Blaze Kick | Sky Uppercut | Focus Blast | Quick Attack | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H444 | Infernape | Adamant | Life Orb | Close Combat | Flare Blitz | Mach Punch | Fake Out | Atk/Spd -> fake out + aerial ace
    H451 | Lucario | Brave | Liechi Berry | Aura Sphere | Focus Punch | ExtremeSpeed | Substitute | Atk/SpA -> brick break
    H468 | Gallade | Adamant | Salac Berry | Psycho Cut | Close Combat | Swords Dance | Vacuum Wave | Atk/Spd -> aerial ace + ice shard

    (31-40) ELECTRIC TYPE
    H271, Raichu, Adamant, Muscle Band, ThunderPunch, Brick Break, Iron Tail, Quick Attack, Atk/Spd -> ice shard + night slash 201-237 / 250
    H285, Magneton, Modest, Scope Lens, Tri Attack, Flash Cannon, Thunderbolt, Signal Beam, Spd/SpA -> brick break + ice shard
    H290, Electrode, Naive, King's Rock, Swift, Thunderbolt, Rollout, Signal Beam, Spd/SpA -> ice shard + night slash 166-196 / 250
    H301, Electabuzz, Adamant, Sitrus Berry, ThunderPunch, Iron Tail, Brick Break, Thief, Atk/Spd ->
    H307, Lanturn, Modest, Sitrus Berry, Discharge, Brine, Signal Beam, Ice Beam, HP/SpA -> (!!!) night slash 3HKO 192-226 / 436 (545)
    H329, Manectric, Modest, Focus Sash, Thunder, Flamethrower, Swift, Signal Beam, Spd/SpA -> ice shard + night slash 187-222 / 270
    H373, Rotom, Timid, Petaya Berry, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Signal Beam, Swift, Spd/SpA -> night slash 1HKO
    H394, Jolteon, Rash, Expert Belt, Discharge, Quick Attack, Double Team, Thunder Wave, Spd/SpA -> ice shard + night slash 187-222 / 260
    H399, Zapdos, Modest, Ganlon Berry, Thunder, Air Cutter, Light Screen, Roost, SpA/SpD -> ice shard 2HKO (164-194 / 308)
    H406, Ampharos, Quiet, Light Clay, Light Screen, Rest, Thunder, Snore, Def/SpA -> (!!!) night slash 3HKO 118-139 / 308 (72-85/146)
    H420, Raikou, Naive, Scope Lens, Thunder, Quick Attack, Reflect, Thunder Fang, Spd/SpA -> night slash 2HKO (157-186 / 308)
    H446, Luxray, Naive, King's Rock, Spark, Thunderbolt, Quick Attack, Thunder Wave, Atk/Spd -> (!!!) night slash 3HKO 102-120 / 289 if intimidate
    H455, Magnezone, Bold, Ganlon Berry, Flash Cannon, Tri Attack, Thunder, Mirror Coat, Def/SpA -> (!!!) brick break 3HKO 116-138 / 270
    H459, Electivire, Naughty, Life Orb, ThunderPunch, Giga Impact, Discharge, Quick Attack, Atk/Spd -> night slash 2HKO (172-204 / 279)

    (41-50) STEEL TYPE
    H285 | Magneton | Modest | Scope Lens | Tri Attack | Flash Cannon | Thunderbolt | Signal Beam | Spd/SpA -> brick break
    H313 | Forretress | Brave | Lum Berry | Gyro Ball | Payback | Bug Bite | Counter | HP/Atk -> counter
    H318 | Skarmory | Adamant | Razor Claw | Rock Slide | Night Slash | Steel Wing | Drill Peck | Atk/Spd -> counter
    H356 | Bastiodon | Quiet | Quick Claw | Metal Burst | Blizzard | Thunder | Fire Blast | HP/SpA -> brick break
    H410 | Steelix | Brave | Iron Ball | Gyro Ball | Dig | Sandstorm | Curse | Atk/Def -> counter
    H411 | Scizor | Brave | Focus Sash | Swords Dance | X-Scissor | Counter | Bullet Punch | HP/Atk -> counter + ice shard
    H429 | Aggron | Adamant | Zoom Lens | Stone Edge | Iron Tail | Metal Burst | Sandstorm | Atk/Def -> brick break min 3/4
    H437 | Metagross | Adamant | Quick Claw | Meteor Mash | Zen Headbutt | Bullet Punch | Light Screen | Atk/Def -> counter
    H440 | Registeel | Brave | Sitrus Berry | Iron Head | Flash Cannon | Giga Impact | Thunder Wave | Atk/SpA -> brick break 2HKO
    H455 | Magnezone | Bold | Ganlon Berry | Flash Cannon | Tri Attack | Thunder | Mirror Coat | Def/SpA -> brick break 2HKO
    H445 | Empoleon | Mild | Petaya Berry | Flash Cannon | Hydro Pump | Aqua Jet | Yawn | SpA/SpD -> brick break + ice shard
    H449 | Bronzong | Quiet | Leftovers | Extrasensory | Flash Cannon | Trick Room | Protect | Def/SpA -> night slash 3HKO
    H451 | Lucario | Brave | Liechi Berry | Aura Sphere | Focus Punch | ExtremeSpeed | Substitute | Atk/SpA -> brick break 1HKO or + ice shard
    H474 | Heatran | Modest | Focus Band | Magma Storm | Flash Cannon | Lava Plume | Metal Sound | SpA/SpD -> brick break 2HKO
    H469 | Probopass | Calm | Focus Band | Flash Cannon | Power Gem | Substitute | Sandstorm | SpA/SpD -> brick break 1HKO

    (51-60) DARK TYPE
    H323, Shiftry, Modest, White Herb, Leaf Storm, Extrasensory, Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Spd/SpA -> brick break 270-318 / 308
    H331, Sharpedo, Adamant, Focus Sash, Crunch, Waterfall, Ice Fang, Zen Headbutt, Atk/Spd -> brick break + ice shard
    H335, Cacturne, Adamant, Metronome, Sucker Punch, Needle Arm, Drain Punch, ThunderPunch, Atk/SpD -> brick break 1HKO
    H342, Crawdaunt, Adamant, Quick Claw, Crunch, Crabhammer, Body Slam, Aerial Ace, Atk/Def -> counter
    H349, Absol, Jolly, Focus Sash, Psycho Cut, Night Slash, Shadow Claw, Slash, Atk/Spd -> brick break + ice shard
    H366, Skuntank, Naughty, Expert Belt, Flamethrower, Poison Jab, Dark Pulse, Iron Tail, Atk/SpA -> (!!!) AFTERMATH ice punch 2HKO
    H367, Spiritomb, Modest, Petaya Berry, Dark Pulse, Ominous Wind, Silver Wind, Icy Wind, HP/SpA -> (!!!) ice punch 3HKO / silver wind 3HKO
    H409, Umbreon, Relaxed, Leftovers, Facade, Sucker Punch, Confuse Ray, Moonlight, Def/SpD -> brick break 3HKO (120-142 / 318)
    H415, Houndoom, Mild, Choice Scarf, Dark Pulse, Flamethrower, Crunch, Fire Fang, Atk/SpA -> brick break 1HKO
    H423, Tyranitar, Brave, Quick Claw, Stone Edge, Crunch, Dark Pulse, AncientPower, Atk/SpA -> brick break 1HKO
    H448, Honchkrow, Lonely, Quick Claw, Dark Pulse, Night Slash, Drill Peck, Air Cutter, Atk/SpA -> ice punch 1HKO
    H453, Drapion, Adamant, Razor Claw, Cross Poison, Night Slash, Slash, Acupressure, Atk/Def -> (!!!) ice punch 3HKO (90-106 / 270)
    H454, Weavile, Adamant, Focus Sash, Night Slash, Ice Punch, Ice Shard, Quick Attack, Atk/Spd -> brick break + ice shard

    PSYCHIC TYPE (lv.45)
    H281 | Alakazam | Timid | Expert Belt | Psychic | Focus Blast | Energy Ball | Signal Beam | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H284 | Slowbro | Modest | Sitrus Berry | Water Pulse | Psychic | Ice Beam | Flamethrower | HP/SpA -> night slash
    H288 | Hypno | Quiet | Zoom Lens | Hypnosis | Focus Blast | Psychic | Nightmare | HP/SpA -> night slash
    H299 | Mr. Mime | Adamant | Sitrus Berry | Power Swap | Fire Punch | Ice Punch | ThunderPunch | Atk/Spd -> night slash
    H300 | Jynx | Timid | BrightPowder | Lovely Kiss | Blizzard | Dream Eater | Energy Ball | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H308 | Xatu | Modest | Leftovers | Psychic | Air Cutter | Ominous Wind | Silver Wind | Spd/SpA -> ice punch / night slash
    H311 | Slowking | Modest | Leftovers | Psychic | Water Pulse | Power Gem | Shadow Ball | SpA/SpD -> night slash
    H312 | Girafarig | Adamant | Lum Berry | Crunch | Zen Headbutt | Return | Mirror Coat | Atk/Spd -> night slash
    H334 | Grumpig | Modest | Wise Glasses | Psychic | Power Gem | Energy Ball | Focus Blast | SpA/SpD -> night slash
    H339 | Lunatone | Modest | Wise Glasses | Psychic | AncientPower | Signal Beam | Earth Power | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H340 | Solrock | Adamant | Muscle Band | Stone Edge | Zen Headbutt | Earthquake | Iron Head | Atk/Spd -> night slash
    H387 | Exeggutor | Adamant | Liechi Berry | Wood Hammer | Zen Headbutt | Rest | Sleep Talk | HP/Atk -> ice punch / night slash
    H388 | Starmie | Timid | BrightPowder | Hydro Pump | Psychic | Recover | Double Team | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H408 | Espeon | Modest | BrightPowder | Psychic | Swift | Double Team | Morning Sun | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H427 | Gardevoir | Timid | Sticky Barb | Psychic | Trick | Swift | Protect | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H432 | Claydol | Rash | Choice Scarf | Earth Power | Psychic | Earthquake | Zen Headbutt | Atk/SpA -> ice punch / night slash
    H435 | Cresselia | Lonely | Leftovers | Psychic | Psycho Cut | Slash | Psycho Shift | Atk/SpA -> night slash
    H437 | Metagross | Adamant | Quick Claw | Meteor Mash | Zen Headbutt | Bullet Punch | Light Screen | Atk/Def -> counter
    H441 | Latias | Modest | Salac Berry | Mist Ball | Dragon Pulse | Recover | Captivate | SpA/SpD -> ice punch
    H442 | Latios | Modest | Salac Berry | Luster Purge | Dragon Pulse | Recover | Captivate | SpA/SpD -> ice punch
    H449 | Bronzong | Quiet | Leftovers | Extrasensory | Flash Cannon | Trick Room | Protect | Def/SpA -> (!!!) night slash
    H468 | Gallade | Adamant | Salac Berry | Psycho Cut | Close Combat | Swords Dance | Vacuum Wave | Atk/Spd -> counter
    H471 | Uxie | Bold | Focus Band | Extrasensory | Yawn | Dream Eater | Swift | Def/SpD -> night slash
    H472 | Mesprit | Timid | Light Clay | Extrasensory | Light Screen | Reflect | Swift | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H473 | Azelf | Adamant | Flame Orb | Zen Headbutt | Return | Trick | Facade | Atk/Spd -> night slash

    POISON TYPE (lv.46)
    H273 | Nidoqueen | Modest | Wise Glasses | Earth Power | Sludge Bomb | Attract | Shadow Ball | Def/SpA -> ice punch
    H274 | Nidoking | Adamant | Muscle Band | Dig | Poison Jab | Attract | Megahorn | Atk/Def -> ice punch / counter
    H276 | Golbat | Modest | Razor Fang | Sludge Bomb | Ominous Wind | Giga Drain | Air Slash | Spd/SpA -> ice punch
    H277 | Vileplume | Modest | Heat Rock | Sludge Bomb | SolarBeam | Sunny Day | Synthesis | Spd/SpA -> ice punch
    H278 | Venomoth | Modest | Choice Specs | Bug Buzz | Psychic | Sludge Bomb | Energy Ball | Spd/SpA -> ice punch
    H282 | Victreebel | Modest | White Herb | Leaf Storm | Grass Knot | Toxic | Worry Seed | HP/SpA -> ice punch
    H293 | Weezing | Calm | Black Sludge | Toxic | Dark Pulse | Flamethrower | Thunderbolt | HP/SpD -> fake out (22-27) + 3xice punch (63-75)
    H330 | Swalot | Adamant | Expert Belt | Toxic | Ice Punch | Fire Punch | ThunderPunch | HP/Atk -> counter / ice punch
    H338 | Seviper | Adamant | Leftovers | Poison Fang | Night Slash | Aqua Tail | Iron Tail | Atk/Def -> counter / ice punch
    H366 | Skuntank | Naughty | Expert Belt | Flamethrower | Poison Jab | Dark Pulse | Iron Tail | Atk/SpA -> fake out + ice punch
    H368 | Toxicroak | Brave | Liechi Berry | Poison Jab | Revenge | Bullet Punch | X-Scissor | Atk/Def -> counter
    H382 | Tentacruel | Adamant | BrightPowder | Waterfall | Poison Jab | Toxic | Dive | Atk/SpD -> night slash
    H384 | Muk | Careful | Black Sludge | Gunk Shot | Frustration | Toxic | Acid Armor | Def/SpD -> counter / fake out (25-30) + ice punch 69-82
    H386 | Gengar | Timid | Razor Fang | Shadow Ball | Sludge Bomb | Hypnosis | Nightmare | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H405 | Crobat | Jolly | BrightPowder | Brave Bird | Cross Poison | Double Team | Toxic | Atk/Spd -> ice punch
    H447 | Roserade | Modest | White Herb | Weather Ball | Leaf Storm | Protect | Toxic | Spd/SpA -> ice punch
    H453 | Drapion | Adamant | Razor Claw | Cross Poison | Night Slash | Slash | Acupressure | Atk/Def -> fake out (20-24) + 2xice punch 54-64/134
    H475 | Venusaur | Quiet | Focus Sash | Toxic | Frenzy Plant | Sludge | Protect | Atk/SpA -> ice punch

    ROCK TYPE (lv.46)
    H283 | Golem | Brave | Quick Claw | Stone Edge | Earth Power | Hammer Arm | Sucker Punch | Atk/SpA -> counter / ice punch
    H294 | Rhydon | Adamant | Sitrus Berry | Dig | Stone Edge | Rock Slide | Megahorn | HP/Atk -> ice punch
    H304 | Omastar | Modest | Wise Glasses | AncientPower | Hydro Pump | Ice Beam | Earth Power | HP/SpA -> brick break
    H305 | Kabutops | Adamant | Muscle Band | Night Slash | Waterfall | Stone Edge | X-Scissor | HP/Atk -> brick break
    H339 | Lunatone | Modest | Wise Glasses | Psychic | AncientPower | Signal Beam | Earth Power | Spd/SpA -> night slash
    H340 | Solrock | Adamant | Muscle Band | Stone Edge | Zen Headbutt | Earthquake | Iron Head | Atk/Spd -> night slash
    H343 | Cradily | Modest | Big Root | AncientPower | Giga Drain | Sludge Bomb | Earth Power | Def/SpA -> ice punch
    H344 | Armaldo | Adamant | Razor Claw | X-Scissor | Stone Edge | Aqua Tail | Aerial Ace | Atk/Def -> counter
    H353 | Relicanth | Brave | Shell Bell | Head Smash | Aqua Tail | Earth Power | Double-Edge | HP/Atk -> counter / brick break
    H355 | Rampardos | Adamant | Shell Bell | Head Smash | Zen Headbutt | Avalanche | Fire Punch | HP/Atk -> counter / brick break
    H356 | Bastiodon | Quiet | Quick Claw | Metal Burst | Blizzard | Thunder | Fire Blast | HP/SpA -> brick break
    H396 | Aerodactyl | Adamant | Leftovers | Stone Edge | Aerial Ace | Sandstorm | Fly | Atk/Spd -> ice punch
    H423 | Tyranitar | Brave | Quick Claw | Stone Edge | Crunch | Dark Pulse | AncientPower | Atk/SpA -> brick break
    H412 | Shuckle | Careful | Smooth Rock | Bug Bite | Rollout | Sandstorm | Protect | HP/SpD -> counter
    H429 | Aggron | Adamant | Zoom Lens | Stone Edge | Iron Tail | Metal Burst | Sandstorm | Atk/Def -> brick break
    H438 | Regirock | Brave | Sitrus Berry | Stone Edge | AncientPower | Giga Impact | Thunder Wave | Atk/SpA -> counter
    H457 | Rhyperior | Brave | Quick Claw | Rock Wrecker | Earth Power | Giga Impact | Reversal | Atk/Def -> counter
    H469 | Probopass | Calm | Focus Band | Flash Cannon | Power Gem | Substitute | Sandstorm | SpA/SpD -> brick break




    NORMAL TYPE
    H275, Clefable, Adamant, Lum Berry, Return, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, Atk/Def -> counter 1HKO or brick break 2HKO (170-202 / 318)
    H279, Persian, Modest, King's Rock, Power Gem, Water Pulse, Swift, Icy Wind, Spd/SpA -> brick break 1HKO (270-318 / 260)
    H286, Dodrio, Jolly, Liechi Berry, Drill Peck, Rest, Steel Wing, Tri Attack, Atk/Spd -> ice punch 1HKO
    H295, Chansey, Quiet, Zoom Lens, Blizzard, Thunder, Fire Blast, Return, HP/SpA -> brick break 1HKO
    H296, Kangaskhan, Adamant, Persim Berry, Dizzy Punch, Outrage, Sucker Punch, Rest, HP/Atk -> brick break 2HKO (214-252 / 397)
    H303, Tauros, Adamant, Persim Berry, Frustration, Iron Tail, Outrage, Zen Headbutt, Atk/Def -> counter
    H306, Noctowl, Modest, Leftovers, Extrasensory, Air Slash, Silver Wind, Ominous Wind, HP/SpA -> ice punch 1HKO
    H312, Girafarig, Adamant, Lum Berry, Crunch, Zen Headbutt, Return, Mirror Coat, Atk/Spd -> counter 1HKO or ice punch 2HKO
    H314, Granbull, Adamant, Focus Band, Return, Crunch, Close Combat, Stone Edge, Atk/Def -> counter
    H319, Stantler, Rash, King's Rock, Extrasensory, Thunder, Facade, Shadow Ball, Spd/SpA -> brick break 2HKO
    H321, Miltank, Adamant, Leftovers, Body Slam, Zen Headbutt, Hammer Arm, Iron Tail, Atk/Def -> counter (BB 136-162 / 318)
    H325, Vigoroth, Adamant, Razor Claw, Slash, Night Slash, Shadow Claw, ThunderPunch, Atk/Spd -> brick break 2HKO (214-252 / 289)
    H327, Exploud, Modest, Metronome, Hyper Voice, Water Pulse, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Def/SpA -> brick break 2HKO (186-220 / 335)
    H337, Zangoose, Adamant, Razor Claw, Crush Claw, Shadow Claw, Close Combat, Fire Punch, Atk/Spd -> brick break 270-318 / 275 (87, 5% 1HKO)
    H345, Kecleon, Jolly, Expert Belt, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Shadow Claw, Aerial Ace, Atk/Spd -> brick break 238-280 / 250 (68, 75% 1HKO)
    H354, Staraptor, Adamant, Liechi Berry, Brave Bird, Close Combat, Quick Attack, U-turn, Atk/Spd -> counter
    H361, Ambipom, Naughty, Expert Belt, Double Hit, Shock Wave, Aerial Ace, Water Pulse, Atk/SpA -> brick break 248-294 / 279 (31, 25% 1HKO)
    H363, Lopunny, Jolly, Sticky Barb, Switcheroo, Dizzy Punch, Bounce, Protect, Atk/Spd -> brik break 204-242 / 260
    H365, Purugly, Adamant, King's Rock, Body Slam, Shadow Claw, U-turn, Iron Tail, Atk/Def -> brick break 256-302 / 272 (62, 5% 1HKO)
    H374, Pidgeot, Modest, Wise Glasses, Ominous Wind, Heat Wave, Air Slash, Uproar, Spd/SpA -> ice punch 1HKO or ice shard 2HKO
    H375, Fearow, Jolly, Muscle Band, Drill Peck, U-turn, Steel Wing, Faint Attack, Atk/Spd -> ice punch 1HKO or ice shard 2HKO
    H397, Snorlax, Brave, Choice Band, Crunch, Giga Impact, Zen Headbutt, Brick Break, Atk/Def -> counter
    H414, Ursaring, Adamant, Focus Band, Frustration, Rest, Sleep Talk, ThunderPunch, Atk/Def -> counter
    H418, Porygon2, Rash, Quick Claw, Tri Attack, Return, Psychic, Zen Headbutt, Atk/SpA -> counter 1HKO or brick break 2HKO 194-230 / 298
    H419, Blissey, Sassy, Lum Berry, Return, Softboiled, Fire Blast, Minimize, Def/SpD -> brick break 2HKO (350-414 / 625)
    H428, Slaking, Adamant, Leftovers, Encore, Counter, Frustration, Faint Attack, Atk/Def -> counter
    H456, Lickilicky, Adamant, Expert Belt, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Body Slam, Atk/Def -> counter (BB 146-172 / 346)
    H461, Togekiss, Modest, BrightPowder, Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Thunder Wave, Roost, SpA/SpD -> ice punch 278-330 / 298 (62, 5% 1HKO) or ice shard 2HKO
    H467, Porygon-z, Modest, Expert Belt, Tri Attack, Dark Pulse, Psychic, Signal Beam, Spd/SpA -> brick break 238-280 / 298
    H477, Regigigas, Impish, Lum Berry, Zen Headbutt, Confuse Ray, Drain Punch, Dizzy Punch, Atk/Def -> counter (BB 120-142/346)
  13. lone

    lone

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    67
    Wow....when you theorymon you really do theorymon. Thanks a ton for all that, and even though you have pointed out a lot more threats than I had found so far I still think I'm going to actually test it ingame, maybe I'll get lucky. Really lucky.
  14. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,774
    yeah, i would have gone with garchomp there with an unparalyzed metagross, i'd want metagross off my screen and would want to cut my losses asap. i think only weavile can kill +2 unsubbed garchomp and then registeel will be able to set up against that. as it played out you could have OHKOed walrein with +2 outrage (102% min, and i wont insult you by assuming anything less than a 31 Atk IV) and had a shot against poke three. if you're jolly you outspeed stuff like starmie #4 and froslass #4 on turn two or three so it's less problematic. garchomp is actually probably better than scizor as far as "one turn of setup" is concerned, and the stuff that CAN survive like skarmory and bronzong are every bit as owned by registeel as the threats to scizor are by latios

    also optimal EV latias has max defense, enough speed to outspeed metagross after the trick to tw it, and rest in HP, and with max IVs a CH MM will only kill 41% of the time, so idk your latias IVs but your EVs should stll put latias at 136 speed, max defense and put the rest in HP

    metagross sucks though, it's the main reason i was at first so happy to play with my metatarsal (metagross/tyranitar/salamence) team since i'd trick it into EQ. and not that it would have made much of a difference in this battle but i just looked at what gets lucky chant and both togekiss and mesprit do, there might be a viable trick team there somewhere...mesprit gets skill swap and charm too lol, also flash (direct fuck you to metagross and regice)...if i cared i might try to make a trick team with this poke, it gets everything cresselia does...i'd consider like tw/skill swap/charm/lucky chant or something (i know, "where did trick go")

    yeah even then I swords dance twice and kill almost every time with superpower, cress will reflect turn two after not getting killed by CH turn one but probably dying turn two etc
  15. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    yeah I know that 136 speed is the way to go, the problem is that I can´t magically create a new latias just like that, have to work with what I have

    it´s the same latias as always, 29-2-29-29-31-31 timid

    my current spread makes these stats: 185-77-129-129-150-158

    speed may be overkill, but timid is a waste otherwise (143 min) and there are some 100 and 105 speed things I like to outspeed after trick :/

    if I went 252 / 252 I´d get 186 HP and 141 def (although I like my HP to be odd, SE unSTABed hits...)

    meta CH MM against 141 def = 165-195 / 186

    hmm rand needs to be 96,97,98,99 or 100 (31,25%)...but who says he won´t get that when the time comes?

    garchomp is jolly 29-31-31-9-31-31 but in that moment I got CHed with a boost (it was really late and I did another round just because) I thought hell please registeel set up somehow...chomp didn´t even cross my mind, only after that battle, while I was brushing my teeth, analyzing what happened...

    it seems I lost my killer instinct...actually it´s there when I use the starmie team to run (basically hit and damage as much as you can, don´t switch unless it´s an electric attack for garchomp)...so yeah 3vs3 is about killing before being killed, this concept I was used to...it´s difficult for me to use a trick team

    also I didn´t "risk" to sub against that monster´s last meteor mash (I considered it though), because, you know, if it didn´t miss 9/9, why would it miss the last one?

    EDIT: I´d bet my money on arcanine4 as the last pokémon in that match :D, extremespeed and then flare blitz steel lol
  16. bloodghoul

    bloodghoul

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Messages:
    137
    ok ill ask this here as i didnt get any luck in the simple questions thread and someone told me to try here.
    I am just wondering do you think this team would be good enough to get the coloured print in the battle tower??

    Gengar @ Focus Sash Modest
    4 HP - 252 SpA - 252 Spe
    Shadow Ball
    Thunderbolt
    Focus Blast
    Destiny Bond

    Latios @ Life Orb Timid
    6 HP - 252 SpA - 252 Spe
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Surf
    ~ Draco Meteor

    Scizor @ Leftovers Adamant w/ Technician
    76 HP - 252 Atk - 180 Spd
    Bullet Punch
    Superpower
    Swords Dance
    Roost


    Gengar is there for the kill with Destiny Bond if nothing else. But maybe two kills with a super effective hit on the opponents lead.
    Latios with the Life Orb for the switching of moves and the really good SpA
    Scizor is there for the physical attacking power and after a Sword Dance most things are crippled by Bullet Punch. SuperPower for move type coverage. Roost is there for some survivability.

    Thanks for the Help
    BloodGhoul
  17. darkseeker4

    darkseeker4

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    354
    @Bloodghoul.Definatly good enough to get to 50 though you might want to try counter>focus blast on gengar.

    I just tryed doubles in castle and lost at 17,18,and 20 because I plus 5 levels and not heal myself after so many battles eventually killing me so I am going to do it till about 15 and then play normally.
    I tryed the same with arcade and lost at 41 cause I was tired after playing so much and hit the team switch panel by mistake.
    It's truly heartbreaking when you lose so low as so much time and energy is wasted!
  18. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    broke the curse of the seventies and am past 100 somewhere (like 112)...

    didn´t have to face such an evil whore like the metagross from last time, but a heracross got 2 CH megahorns in a row against registeel, thankfully the first one on a sub, but still :/

    then of course for the first time I had to face trick failing turn1 (4times total), right off the bat at #50 lol against the powder luca, later when I faced the same one again I missed twice in a row and he got a CH flash cannon (that´s already way under 1% isn´t it?) but latias somehow lived with like 3 HP (don´t remember correctly) and pulled the trick on turn3

    regi also faced an ice punch freeze and many many CHs, but not gamebreaking

    the worst and closest game was because I seriously messed up when I tricked the scarf onto a lopunny who got a CH ice punch (set4) and was faster even without scarf working (so I didn´t know if it actually had klutz or not), so the second ice punch fainted latias
    - registeel came in and lopunny fire punched me of course, damn...somehow there was the unsubbed, 3curse registeel against a fire punching bunny and I went ahead and steel used all of its out-of-this-world-hardness to headbutt with a CH yay
    - no need to make a party as any special fire toasts me at this point...foe sent out granbull (now I see it´s the set4 trainer with supposedly 21 IVs), dmg calc shows that LO close combat does 58 max and I was at 98...he did CC 57 damage and LO and -1 def meant another iron head KO
    - last pokémon porygon-z and I missed the message but logically it was download raised its spA as def was +3 and no amnesia has been used...thunderbolt fainted the 52HP registeel
    - now I´m screwed I thought to myself, he OHKO´s chomp and I have a feeling that outrage won´t be enough...dmg calc, I need rand 99 and 100 good lord, but then I remember that Zet doesn´t have flawless IVs and now the dmg calc looks a tad more positive
    vs 155Hp/85def = 145-172 damage (now this is if zet´s IVs are really 21 and not 24)
    - outrage, praying ... ... ... porygon-z fainted

    #112 was against a PI and he opened with uber walrein, good thing trick didn´t miss because his sheer cold didn´t either, then I set up garchomp and won 2-0, walrein hit 2/5 sheer colds though

    hmm this is what I´ve been thinking about, if the factory is +4 IVs each round, then it´s 24 and 31 and not 21 and 31 like in emerald and DP, right? I´m not sure how we will figure this one out

    maybe by counting the struggle turns when I face one of those trainers?

    yeah what to do against a lopunny? I´ve already decided to charm muk and also gastro (switch back and forth between lati & steel if it´s the special set4 one)

    [size=-2]391, Lopunny 1, Jolly, Focus Band, 140, 128, 104, 66, 116, 172, Return, Drain Punch, Charm, Mirror Coat, Attk/Speed
    527, Lopunny 2, Jolly, BrightPowder, 172, 96, 104, 66, 116, 172, Focus Punch, Sweet Kiss, Attract, Thunder Wave, HP/Speed
    663, Lopunny 3, Modest, Wise Glasses, 140, 86, 104, 116, 116, 157, Charge Beam, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Sp.Attk/Speed
    799, Lopunny 4, Jolly, Muscle Band, 140, 128, 104, 66, 116, 172, Dizzy Punch, Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Attk/Speed[/size]

    hmm set 1, 2 and 4 are physical (set2 is hell)...set 3 will ice beam latias then I´ll switch to registeel and try to PP waste focus blast or something, after that it´s amnesia and gg
    charming 1 and 4 will ease time for my other two...set 2 is just crazy... out of those 3 annoy moves it could use any...I should manage three charms but it´s faster than garchomp damn it, hopefully it won´t be a male bunny ._.
    a -6 focus punch does 20 damage to my registeel and that´s unboosted lol
  19. Zog

    Zog

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    934
    So I've been wifi battletowering with a trick team this afternoon and I just can't crack rank 4. It's full of scarf Togekisses and I can't do anything without being gayed by flinches, crits, freezes or two of those at the same time. The hax is just intolerable. Pretty much every other move of theirs crits, and if it's a high-crit move like Night Slash I can basically rely on it. Stuff like 7 air slashes flinching me in a row, 2 of them being crits and every single one of those flinches being crucial. It's just stupid.

    Any recommendations? I'm using a trickscarf Uxie, a bulky DD Gyarados and a sashed Garchomp.
  20. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    If you have an Air Slash resist you can survive long enough to retaliate. Zapdos and Rotom-A have the benefit of resisting Aura Sphere, as well. You can scarf them to outrun Togekiss. Scarf TTar can work, too, also activating Garchomp's sand veil as a bonus.

    I am brainstorming a Battle Tower team after prematurely ending my Togekiss streak at 180 (Did not expect the Golduck to be faster than my Timid Togekiss; yea, togepi was caught in the wild x[) Any comments on how good it would be? Assume perfect IVs for now... (even though Azelf's far from perfect in the speed department).

    Azelf @ CSpecs / CScarf
    max SAtk / max Spe
    ~Psychic
    ~Flamethrower
    ~Trick
    ~Signal Beam / Explosion

    It would be pretty devastating if I give it CSpecs, but I may have to give it Scarf to be on the safe side. Psychic + Fire for coverage; Signal Beam is for more coverage against Psychic + Dark Types or Explosion to take 1 pokemon down. I know this isn't the totally abusive Trickster, but I just liked Trick locking the opponent's moves and preventing set-up while still keeping offense.

    Heatran @ LOrb
    max SAtk / max Spe
    Timid
    ~Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    ~Earth Power
    ~HP Grass
    ~Substitute

    Yes, it is august's featured Heatran on the Smog! It looks nice, so I am glad I am able to put him in. I think I would want Fire Blast for as much power against the dragons / Gyarados. Azelf covers Heatran's Fighting & Ground weakness sort of. Heatran, being a steel type, has no problem covering weaknesses of its team mates.

    Quagsire @ Expert Belt / Leftovers
    Water Absorb
    max HP / max Atk for now
    Adamant most likely
    ~Earthquake
    ~Ice Punch (wtf no Avalanche... that ruins this set kinda)
    ~Stone-Edge
    ~Yawn / Encore

    Quagsire because of water immunity and Rock resist without any weakness to hard-hitting types like electric, psychic, or bug. Additionally it is one of the more reliable Gyarados & Tyranitar counters. Yawn / Encore to partially immobolize threats that Quagsire cannot handle and providing a safer switch to Azelf / Heatran.

    I have no doubt that Azelf and Heatran will pull through, but the potential of Quagsire in Battle Tower is still uncertain. It does have nice versatility in its offense and support moves, as well as a nice synergistic combination of its typing to its ability. However its stats are sub-par. If I don't catch or breed a perfect-IV Quagsire, it may fail to dent the opposing force.

    So I have thought up of other candidates that are less sturdy but have reliable killing power.

    Victreebel @ FSash
    lots in Atk / some in SAtk / max Spe
    Hasty / Naive
    Leaf Blade
    Sludge Bomb
    Sleep Powder
    Stun Spore / Sunny Day

    Breloom @ FSash
    max Atk / max Spe
    Adamant / Jolly
    ~Spore
    ~Focus Punch
    ~Seed Bomb
    ~Stone-Edge

    Two grassers with the main purpose of annihilating Tyranitar and Water Pokemon. Sleep moves are a great supplement to their offensive power as well.

    For Victreebel, I think I prefer Leaf Blade over Solar Beam, because at least that would provide me one solid physical Attack to hit hard against special sponges, which are most Waters and Tyranitars (sandstream boosts). Victreebel would also not have to worry about stupid Mirror Coat, too. Sunny Day is only an option, because I can easily make Heatran learn Sunny Day over HP Grass. Heatran can even afford to hold a Heat Rock since Sunny Day provides a much better boost than Life Orb. There's the Rock / Ground and Water Types, but that's what Victreebel is for.

    If I should choose Breloom or Sunny Day Victreebel I may want HP Electric on Heatran, since I lost a reliable counter for Gyarados. I haven't caught my Heatran yet, so I can still make the choice between Electric and Grass hidden powers. Thanks for any opinions
  21. -GZ-

    -GZ-

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    229
    Well, I just got pretty far on the battle tower(doubles), I got to a streak of 84 With the following team:

    Salamence@Focus Sash
    Rash
    252spe,252spA,6attack

    -Draco Meteor
    -Earthquake
    -Heat Wave
    -Brick Break


    +

    Cresselia@Lum
    Bold
    252def,252HP,6spA

    -Signal Beam
    -Calm Mind
    -Psychic
    -Rest

    +

    Metagross@Occa Berry
    Adamant
    252attack,252def,6HP

    -Meteor Mash
    -Bullet Punch
    -Earthquake
    -Explosion

    +

    Abamosnow@Choice Scarf
    Timid
    252spe,252spA,6HP

    -Blizzard
    -Ice Shard
    -Energy Ball
    -Protect(lol)

    I was planning on throwing Occa on Abamo but whatever, so I got to the 84th battle and I was about to win I think vs. Exeggutor, so it was down to my Cresselia and Metagross vs. Exeggutor Butu I was afraid that Exeggutor might get annoying. So I used Rest with Cresselia to get to full health to endure Metagross' Explosion(which has worked before) but it killed my Cress! I wasnt even thinking haha.

    The Video Number is 91-83735-87341 if anyone would like to watch it.
  22. Alex Practice

    Alex Practice

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    686
    I just got the silver Print for beating Palmer for the first time with an AMAZING team so hopefully I'll be posting that when it gets ~100 wins :)

    As for a streak I HAVE done...I just finished a 128 streak in the Platinum Battle Tower (Double Battles.)

    This is the team:

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
    Moveset:
    ~Discharge
    ~Heat Wave
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Detect

    Originally Chesto Berry, but I found that hardly ANYTHING got the chance to put me to sleep before dying. Life Orb just improved that chance. Thunderbolt seems redundant but doesn't hit my partner (If I have, say, Metagross out) and is stronger on a single target that I want to get rid of such as Walrein. Detect for blocking random Stone Edges while my Garchomp rapes face.

    Adapted from zerowing's vgc team.

    Garchomp @ Yache Berry
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
    Moveset:
    ~Earthquake
    ~Rock Slide
    ~Dragon Claw
    ~Protect

    Isn't affected by Discharge, while Zapdos isn't effected by Earthquake. It's a pretty awesome combo. Yache Berry prevents things from OHKOing with Ice Beam (namely Latias/Latios) while Rock Slide is for more widespread damage that hits targets immune to EQ.

    Metagross @ Lum Berry
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Attack, 6 Def
    Moveset:
    ~Meteor Mash
    ~Earthquake
    ~Bullet Punch
    ~Protect

    Protect is just good in doubles period but also prevents him from being damage by teammates. He's my first switch in after a knockout to revenge kill. Not much to say here. He works well. Lum Berry because he's my switch in to Ice attacks and he hates being frozen on the switch.

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
    Moveset:
    ~Heat Wave
    ~Earth Power
    ~Dragon Pulse
    ~Explosion

    Heatran is another Pokemon that can attack all enemies, and with choice scarf and explosion is able to take out problem Pokemon, especially things like Gastrodon which is a bitch to take out after it kills Zapdos with Stone Edge with just Metagross and Garchomp. I rarely had to use it due to how solid the team is, but it saved my ass 2 or 3 times against ice trainers.

    Now the basic strategy of the team is to just use multiple-hit attacks on both foes to quickly decimate the opposition. I found that I had Garchomp use Protect on the first turn 90% of the time after battle 50 due to EVERYONE packing Ice or Latias (which has somehow never outsped Garchomp despite having a higher base speed...haha.) while letting Zapdos KO/paralyze shit, or put them in range for two more attacks to KO in the case of bulkier things.
    Metagross was rarely used, mostly it would just Bullet Punch and win the game if I had to send it out. I switched it in a few times, replacing Garchomp if its Protect was used up and Zapdos hadn't taken out their ice user and/or if it outsped Garchomp. Turns out I needn't have worried so much, as even a Starmie's Blizzard doesn't OHKO YaChomp. :/
    Heatran was my anti-Ice guy whose Explosion could be used as a last resort.

    The team got me to 128. I lost against Clown Frank.
    His team was:

    Bronzong
    Gallade
    Mr. Mime
    Slowking

    Trick Room...haha I fought ONE "competitive" team out of 129 battles and it was a fun match.

    No battle video up...yet...soon, though. I'll edit when and if.

    Turn-by-turn, the losing battle went like this.

    Turn 1:
    Earthquake. Hits both for 50% +
    Heatwave. Brings Bronzong to 1 HP. MISSES GALLADE. -___-
    Gallade Ice Punches Garchomp. Yache Activates...CRITICAL HIT.
    Garchomp dies.
    Bronzong uses Trick Room.

    Turn 2:
    I send in Metagross.
    Bullet Punch kills Gallade.
    Bronzong uses Hypnosis. It hits Zapdos.
    Zapdos is asleep.
    He sends out Slowing.

    Turn 3:
    Bullet Punch Bronzong, which dies.
    Slowking uses Curse.
    Zapdos sleeps.

    Turn 4:
    He sends out Mime.
    Metagross Protects (Bad idea) to stall out TR and scout an attack.
    Slowking uses Curse.
    Mime uses Mimic but it fails.
    Zapdos is still Asleep

    Turn 5:
    Metagross uses Bullet Punch on mime.
    Slowking hits Zapdos with Aqua Tail for the KO.
    Mime uses Psychic on Metagross for NVE damage.
    The twisted dimensions return to normal.

    Turn 6:
    I send out Heatran
    Protect with Metagross while Heatran Explodes.
    Slowking OHKOs Heatran with Aqua Tail..****ing QUICK CLAW >____<


    Slowking keeps Cursing.
    Mime protects against Meteor Mash.

    Mime copycats Gross.
    Slowking uses EQ and kills Gross.

    :(

    There was WAY too much Hax in this game, but it was a good challenge and I got MUCH farther than I expected to. I got a double ability ribbon and a shit ton of BP and set a personal best, so I've got no regrets. It's not like I made a ton of mistakes or could have used a better team. TR, hax, etc makes any consistent powerful team go to hell :P
  23. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    updated the list

    also posting to say that the group of trainers (you should know which ones, pokéfans, picnickers, campers, PKMN breeders, etc.) actually do have 21 IV pokémon after all, as I faced already like 2-3 pokémon that struggle fainted in 4 (possible with 21 but not 24 and 31)...

    as for my current streak...I have never done so many battles in 1.5 days, but I´m not "halfway through" yet, although pretty close :)

    I kind of laughed hard yesterday, when a paralyzed and confused kanga got two CHs in a row with outrage (I could laugh because steel didn´t care)

    another note for trick-team users: beware of flingers lol...I won´t say anymore

    EDIT: oh shi...stupid stupid stupid...faced a scizor, trick missed turn1, he SD, trick worked turn2 he scissored me and I tried to set up again with registeel against such a thing, thinking OK he won ´t get any more boosts like metagross did (+4) and scissor has less base power...well, I was at +5 and low health behind a sub when he CHed me twice in a row...now I calc damage on garchomp (long overdue) and he doesn´t KO and I can SD (lol the shock came when I realized I didn´t check scizor´s speed stat), but it worked and I fainted it after one SD...it was aruin maniac and I hoped for no sash/aerodactyl or whatever, econd poké magnezone died faster than it came out of the pokéball and3rd was lunatone lol
    ok this is like the second or third time I messed up (tricking hariyama2 when I knew which set it was, accidentally tricking rhyperior4 twice in a row giving him back the CB, when I knew which set it was while I wanted to charm, luckily megahorn missed like 3 out of 10, and now this)
  24. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    Messages:
    4,774
    well at the very least i think that these few roadbumps might be giving you a little more killer instinct than you had 1-2 weeks ago. when i changed over from starmie team to LLL i don't think i lost much killer instinct, but this probably has everything to do with the fact that no one yet had tried trick in the battle tower and because both linoone (which the first L stood for at first) and lopunny are NU pokemon.

    i still remember the six pokemon i hated to see in the BT first turn with LLL: Metagross, Yanmega, Gliscor, Latios, Charizard, and Dragonite, in order of "ffffffffffff". Honorable mention goes to heracross, regice, froslass, rapidash, arcanine, rampardos and medicham, all of whom i either couldn't switcheroo first turn or didn't like to have to set up on (flare blitz, head smash, ice beam, etc). with CLS, there are only three pokemon i care about: metagross, yanmega and heracross. metagross for obvious reasons (and ones that make me seriously want to try skill swap uxie, mesprit or togekiss), and yanmega/heracross because they are the only two pokemon i can't trick turn 1, and even that that's only some of the time for both. i trick everything else i listed and don't care at all, only scarf rampardos and cb dragonite are pause for any concern

    so for me, now, with CLS, i don't need a killer instinct because latios and scizordo all the murdering for me. for you though, it should be "fun" in that at least you realize it's not quite as easy as garo and i may have made it seem since last year

    also to answer your previous question i still love flash because most moves aren't going to run out of pp before it matters. especially for things like lopunny, flash rules
  25. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    1,070
    yeah it´s all about learning how to use your team, it´s definitely not as easy as it might seem "lalala trick team I win 350 without effort" (hint: wrong)...

    that registeel is very difficult to use, but now I know what to do and pull through (unless horrible hax occurs)

    loving them recovers on latias, beside helping me totally cripple stuff I wouldn´t be able to without recover (charm is awesome), I´m PP wasting stuff, where I would probably have to bring in steel for a min 10 turn set up and not always easy sweeping afterwards, now I have to keep track of the PPs but whatever, then I bring in chomp on the first struggle and always get at least +4 and sub

    garchomp only "failed" to sweep by itself once so far (what I recall, you know, too many battles ._.), after set up as the oponent brought the sashtrode which broke sub with signal beam and, considering I knew its set, I switched to steel to absorb the boom :)

    by the way, I´m marking (on my printed 700 poké list) all the moves the starters use against latias I lock them into...what I don´t like for example is that stuff uses OHKO moves (pinsir, rhydon, kingler)...this helps figuring out the AI a bit (although the most frequent is the most obvious ice move/shadow ball vs lati)

    as I said, I´m charming lopunny, gastro and muk (have to see a muk yet though) and then reswitch depending on the situation...I faced bunny and gastro4 already and it worked out like I wanted (gastro switching back and forth but then got bored after 3 beams/epowers lol and tried trick, which worked)

    jump will you continue your active 190+ streak with CLS now or what (or are you already since you lost in DP two weeks ago? if so, then I shouldn´t be happy to make a nice record if you jump over me right after

    another random note: I love the fact that plat. is much faster than DP (attacks, lefties recovery etc.), saves a lot of time in bigger streaks

    now I understand your nick at last, after reading about how you were a triple/high jumper, how far/high if I may ask? I´m a big athletics fan and like to mesure my own various efforts (we had physical tests after/before season while I was a competitive tennis player and always loved them..50m sprint, cricket ball throw from standing still, long jump from both legs without a running start, no. of sit ups per minute, medicine ball throw lol dunno how it´s called, picking up balls - 5 short sprints in 5 directions and a 12minute distance run)

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