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Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. AbSoL!

    AbSoL!

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    21
    I have another team idea this one is for double BT

    Bronzong-Leftovers
    Brave Levitate
    252hp/128d/128spd
    Trick room
    Iron head
    Explosion
    Earthquake

    Swinub-Focas sash
    LV.1 no evs and serious nature
    Protect
    Endeavor
    Ice shard
    Roar

    Snorlax-Chesto Berry
    Adamant thick fat
    252hp/252atk/6d
    Rest
    Thunder punch
    Fire punch
    Ice punch

    Tyranitar-Choice band
    Adamant sand stream
    Rock slide
    Eartquake
    Crunch
    Pursuit

    The basic point is to protect with swinub and then trick room with zong.Then endeavor and iron head the opponent.Next turn use protect and explode bronzong.Send out snorlax and then use endeavor and attack with snorlax to hopefully win.
  2. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
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    2,837
    lol nice 1337 streak :)

    oh and ive given my battle castle streak up, literally.... it finished on 568 - will post pic soon. the match i lost would have been a cakewalk for my team, but i decided (stupidly i guess) to give the AI a "chance". i'd identified the team as medicham + gallade + slowking. i know salamence can OHKO all gallade and medicham at level 55 and i checked the slowking (the QC curse one). so i leveled medicham and gallade up without checking them, figuring i'd OHKO them in turn, or switch in milotic to take care of king if it came out second. so:

    1. AA OHKO's medicham, then slowking comes in. i looked at my list and could see i'd most likely 2HKO slowking, and i thought "lets give this guy a chance" cause i was kinda getting sick of the BC.
    2. so, AA does 55%ish and he curses.
    3. i AA again him to the red and he zen headbutts for 60%ish. here (if not before) i should have just switched to anyone, just in case the QC activated. but for some reason i either felt lazy, or kind, and i stayed in.
    4. QC zen headbutt kills mence.
    5. so i send in milotic to finish it off with surf (no QC this time).
    6. and out comes gallade - level 55, and i dont know the set. im probably alright unless its the leaf blade one.
    7. which i find it to be after its first move - oh well, i know its all over here :( anyway for some reason the first attack it uses is (non crit) night slash and i get off a toxic.
    8. second turn leaf blade (non crit), i recover - im at about 155/202HP and i know i can beat it without crits, but as if that will happen. i also know i have to keep recovering, because it only needs one turn at blissey with close combat.
    9. pretty sure the next leaf blade was a crit, and sure enough CC kills bliss next turn.
    well, i'm pretty sure this was the only way i was ever going to finish my streak here - basically it comes down to laziness, because i have beaten pretty much this exact same team several times.

    i guess i'm slightly disappointed the streak is not still alive, but the amount of time it has taken me has been too much - i am way too impatient, and i get edgy, and do weird things like give the AI a chance lol..... also, real life is too busy at the moment, and im kinda itching to have a serious crack at the tower when i get a chance. so im also not too "devastated" hehe. if i got to 1000 or 10000, it would still be easy enough for someone to beat me. all you really need is a reliable team, and you can manipulate CP to your advantage, and lower the levels of threats to your strategy, or bypass trainers altogether. patience is the main key.

    well, good luck guys - i know a few of you are interested in the castle now, and you now have a fixed mark to aim for. i really dont think i will restart that again any time soon. even though im sure my record will be broken in the near future.

    EDIT:

    [​IMG]
  3. Shelcario

    Shelcario

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    1,421
    Nice streak Bozo and it would seem from what you're explaining to us that the Battle Castle can be manipulated to get high streaks as long as you have a balanced team or strategy to run with and the fact that you can skip trainers all together makes the battle castle even easier.
  4. Nitzleplick

    Nitzleplick

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
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    I'm working on breeding my own team to try hitting a nice streak. I'm pushing for a unique team, although the lead is a Tricker

    My lead currently is a

    Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
    Timid
    252hp/80s.atk/176spe
    Trick
    Aura Sphere
    Air Slash
    Roost

    I have 176spe to hit 201spe while holding Choice Scarf, and Aura Sphere to counter DoubleTeam/Powder H4X.. while Air Slash is there for my own brand of h4x.

    The second team member is questionable but I already have a Shiny Adamant Tech. Scizor so it's prolly

    Scizor @ Life Orb
    252hp/252atk/4spe
    Swords Dance
    Bullet Punch
    U-Turn
    Roost

    Im not sure if I should use Baton Pass over U-Turn, but it really depends what my 3rd member is.

    I'm having trouble figuring out what would best cover my weaknesses, and allow Togekiss some free switch ins for Trick.
  5. Bozo

    Bozo

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    oh man that sucks to get so close :(

    as for your last question, i have thought about this. and whether the AI "knows" about the RNG. for example, i am certain i have been in a few situations where the AI is spamming some sensible move (greatest BP or SE etc) and then for one turn switches to something less effective but with a high critical hit ratio - and then sure enough it gets a crit. like as if it knew that move would get a crit that turn, but not the other one.

    as for the other question, it would be interesting to research this. my guess is that if they had a ground type against a levitating bronzong, it would EQ it and even if it missed, would probably continue to use EQ.

    that is the pokemon that ended my 999,999 magikarp streak in the battle hall :pirate:



    @ peterko + jumpman. grow up guys!

    1. you're both really good.
    2. to get over even 200 you need a bit of luck, even with a good team. so dont worry about who has the most luck.
    3. its hard to say who came up with what, but neither of you invented the actual pokemon or items you are using, and therefore the strategies existed regardless of whether anyone had ever used/discovered them. you have both benefitted from the opinions of each other and the other members of this forum.
    4. if peterko gets to 2000 this time, theres nothing stopping jumpman getting 3000 next time, the someone else getting 4000. nothing is set in stone, and in 10 years neither of you will really care about it all anymore. (thats what makes me decide i dont really care that i could have kept my BC streak going but decided to give the AI a chance to beat me.)
    at the end of the day, imagine you were able to prove to the other guy that you seriously are the best at pokemon. what are you gonna do next? try and explain your success to the next hot girl you meet at a party? lol.......

    dont take me wrong guys - i think youre both cool. but have some fun and enjoy each others success.
  6. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
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    173
    Tower Record of 313

    - Lol you're right, I for some reason thought Earthquake was on that set, but that's the dumb set that doesn't use his best move. So I guess stalling out Horn Drill is the way to go.

    I checked the move in-game, and I was right, it's 100% as opposed to
    the '---' given for never-miss moves. That's why I missed once against an evasion item user. Oh, and if you know anyone who has the power to change the site, then they need to fix the Memento page's error. I'm surprised Serebii had something right while Smogon didn't... also, if ShoddyBattle has it programmed as never-miss, I guess that needs updating...

    Now more importantly, I just lost on battle 314 in the Platinum Tower. I'm working on my big write-up for the record post, but I need to clarify a few things:

    1. Who was the first person to use Registeel? I need to give them credit.

    2. Who first introduced the Trick lead idea to Smogon... was it Jumpman16?

    3. Who first used the Substitute Garchomp set in the Tower?

    I want to give credit where due, since my team is very similar to the top 2 teams on the list.

    Also, you'll find out in my record post that I lost to ridiculous hax...

    anyway, I also need time to make and upload the video for proof, so it'll be at least a day for my official post about my record.
  7. Phiddlesticks

    Phiddlesticks

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    475
    Actually had a similar situation today, except it was my Magnezone with Sturdy against the Sheer Cold Lapras. The Lapras used Sheer Cold once, "learned" I had Sturdy, then didn't use it at all afterwards (only used Confuse Ray). Keep in mind the Lapras was alive for like 5 or 6 turns against Magnezone because I switched it into Sing and it was asleep the whole time. So my guess is that the AI uses a move once to test the waters (or in my case test the electric/steels xD get it)

    Speaking of Magnezone, my best factory team ever involved it:

    821 Mismagius Timid Focus Sash Shadow Ball Psychic Thunderbolt Destiny Bond SpA/Spe
    876 Magnezone Modest Brightpowder Thunderbolt Flash Cannon Tri Attack Signal Beam Def/SpA
    859 Flygon Adamant Lum Berry Earthquake Outrage Crunch Stone Edge Atk/Spe

    Got this team in the 36-42 set (started off with the Spore/Focus Punch Breloom leading the team but fought the Mismagius in battle 36) and it was basically 6 free wins. It was amazing. I lost at 44 though :( I'm glad I finally broke 40 at least. Also, I'm pretty sure that Mismagius is like the best overall Pokemon in the factory. I swear it's guaranteed 2 kills every battle. I also got it during my 22-28 set along with the CB Tauros and the 3 attack/Destiny Bond Froslass for a TRE style factory team :)
  8. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    i wouldn't bother with AS on kiss for the reason you stated, since if you lock them into DT then your setup poke won't care. as for your third member i would suggest garchomp since you really want a pokemon that can take rock and electric moves and chomp seems to fit the bill the most. you'd be missing water if you did this but the other solution to this is to use lati@s so you have water and electric covered but then you'd miss rock, and without charm on kiss (which i would use in a heartbeat) you'd hate rock attacks more so i'd go with chomp unless you're willing to change other stuff. good luck

    yeah i dont want to turn this thread into some kind of pissing match so i'm not going to. that said:

    200 i dont think so with a trick team once you know what you're doing, "luck" becomes incredibly subjective because it starts to be about not seeing the 3-5 pokemon sets as leads that you would rather not eve if you still beat them easily most of the time!

    that's not really true, pokemon and items and moves are quantitative where strategies are qualitative. "everything" exists beforehand, but someone has to actually create the strategies to make things work. this implies all the credit should be given to nintendo/gamefreak and that's not very accurate!

    thanks, i can fix this so i will later.

    garo was


    yeah


    it was probably acinod, he used it about a year ago in DP and got to like 187
  9. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
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    1,483
    STUPID!!!!!! i lost again, this time at 65, because of a stupid mistake that i've committed before on an earlier run. just purely shitty play on my part. i still would've won had it not been for a fucking critical hit +2 focus blast from shiftry that left me without my main sponge.
  10. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
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    good stuff man!! jumpman or peterko (cant remember who - dont argue about who said this) was just saying that very few have gone past 300.

    that is very interesting! then i guess my initial thought was wrong.

    i guess i dont mean you'll only get 200 if you have a lot of luck, more that in 200 battles there are plenty of opportunities to get haxed to death. OHKO leads that could 3-0 your team, consecutive crits that dont allow you to set up (and then backup pokes who can beat yours if they are not set up).

    i agree that if you know how to use these trick teams you should be able to get 200 "easy enough" but that it might take a few tries. didnt peterko post that he had a few streaks of <100 when he was going for his streak? maybe in the 696 post? i mean i "know" my salamence+suicune+blissey team is solid enough to deserve a 100 streak, but it still died in the 90's twice to stupid hax before eventually making it to 165.

    every team has a nemesis, and it's just luck that decides when you will face it. and also luck that decides if you will come out on top.

    also, not at all meaning to "argue" but we can probably do well to be less picky about who "deserves" credit for various teams/ideas. i was using salamence+suicune+blissey in emerald way back before i had even heard of smogon (psypoke ftw!!!!!) and when i came here i was happy to see that it was basically one of the most successful BT teams (well snorlax instead of blilssey). my point is that i'm sure there are japanese guys out there who have had great success with trick-based BT teams. in the end its a very natural idea, and the person who invented it is very smart, can feel very happy with themselves knowing that they (and others) have had a lot of success with it. you dont necessarily have to post "hey it was MEEEEE who invented that" every time someone mentions it.



    EDIT: btw i've just done a 1-49 run in 84:38. i used my phones stopwatch this time, and recorded from the very first "welcome to the battle tower" to the very last "we hope to see you again" or whatever it is they say. (team = standard timid LO starmie + my trusty CB salamence + SD+IP+NS+BB sash weavile.)

    @peterko - a question about your 78 min record. did you include all the in-between stuff? i timed a few random things along the way - a battle will last 1:10 if starmie OHKO's all 3 pokes - this does not include shininess (i used non-shinies apart from weavile which i only had a shiny of) or life orb recoil (i didnt let starmie have an item until after the first round of palmer). and the before+after stuff on each streak is about 1:20. this means a set of 7 will be 9:30 if starmie OHKO's all 21 opponents before they get a chance to move. over 7 sets that adds up to 66:30. also you need to factor in palmer and his slow walk and long speech (twice) - that adds at least a minute, although i admit i havent timed it specifically; i could probably find a youtube video of this to time but i cant be bothered. every time you fail to OHKO, you have to wait for your opponent to hurt you, and then hurt them again - this pretty much extends a 3 turn battle by at least 30-40% of the time, and then sometimes you wont be able to OHKO any of the 3 (eg second palmer - bulky cresselia+regigigas and sash heatran). and if you need to switch for any reason it will take plenty of time. anyway, i guess what im saying is you must have either been extreeeeeeeeeeemly lucky with absolutely loads of 3 turn starmie victories, or maybe you didnt record the in-between bits? i felt like my 84 mins was about as close as i could imagine to getting great luck all the way through (i've tried this 1-49 race several times), without anything too annoying happenning (like a double teamer getting set up). and also you used a snorlax for part of it? that alone means youd have to be moving second a lot.

    EDIT: just actually read the post of your record. any 10 turn snorlax battle is gonna take ages. plus the second palmer battle - getting 4 curses and then having to take at least 4 turns to KO the others (assuming OHKO's on all but sash heatran) and always moving second. with the bare minimum of 66:30 (assuming 147 starmie OHKO's and no palmer speeches), and those two snorlax battles alone you'd be getting pretty close to 78mins already. im guessing you must have mucked up the times when you stopped the clock to reteach garchomp fire fang.



    EDIT: something else to consider - thick club marowak's earthquake breaks registeels +6 Def sub. and also +6 Atk iron head doesnt have a guaranteed OHKO on same marowak.
  11. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    1. I stopped the time just like you, from the start to end without stopping in between (except for when I let chomp relearn FF), and even with that short stop it was a very good time. Yes there were excessive starmie streaks, if it didn´t finish stuff in 3, it did in 4 turns or died and garchomp finished...I was clicking the fastest I could even during attacks to make them faster (not sure about your time per battle)

    my memory is not always good, but as for that record, I remember exactly where the minute hand was on my watch after each set of 7...basically the first 21 were 27 minutes, so an average of 9 minutes...there was probably one, max two battles where starmie didn´t sweep all 3 just like that...after that it took 51 minutes, which is 12 minutes and 45 seconds per set of seven average...again, starmie-chomp did their stuff and there were very few matches that took a bit longer

    also, it wasn´t even a full 78 minutes (more like 77:40)...

    by the way, beware of TR (bronzong) with that fast team, I´ve lost to it once with starmie-chomp-weavile

    2.yeah I lost to marowak before because of that (it´s been posted, along with my excessive damage calcs of SE hits against my +6/+6 steel and also against an impish spread I´ve worked on)

    broke my sub, I failed to OHKO, he critted steel, I tricked (and charmed it? lol have to find the post) but it critted my chomp again with outrage when I was SDing naked

    I´m trying to set up garchomp if possible against that group of trainers

    the wak story...
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2200851&postcount=1078

    here the impish steel post (I was tricking dragons at that time still - the change came later by the end of september, start of october when I changed the latias EV spread and since then I use charm on most of the dragons)
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2207101&postcount=1089

    as for dragons, just yesterday I had a nice battle with a bird keeper´s salamence that I charmed, but it was the special set...so I did the usual switching (gachomp in second to lure a DM to lower it´s spA even more), but decided to set up garchomp this time (like, for first time since the dragons are not always locked into just DM because of the approach, I didn´t feel like getting CHed by thrower or something, while knowing the risk of activating lum, due to a burn in 5 shots and later having a 2turn outrage, dunno sometimes I decide these things by gut/just like that...OK maybe it´s not the best idea, afterall)

    yeah so I switched back and forth to PP waste DM, then set up chomp...sala got 2 CHs, I´m sure the second one was from flamethrower on my last sub and I think the first one was surf (have to check the battle later today, I saved it), seriously my memory is just bad...I think I was +4 outraging naked at low HP, second poké zard my initial thought was powder but I hit, next poké gliscor, my initial thought was "please not the countershash set because he´ll get a shot at guillotine against steel", well....scor fainted
  12. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
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    173
    - Thanks, I guess it is quite decent... although I won't be surprised if someone like Jumpman knocks off my record as soon as it appears.

    - Lucky I never encountered non-lead Thick Club Marowak during a Registeel 'sweep' then. I also never came across a Choice Band Rhyperior.

    And sadly, it's going to be a while before I can make and upload the video for proof, and I'm not posting my official record post without the proof... so it'll be a few days before that happens.

    One more question regarding that upcoming post:

    Since the chance of a critical hit is 1 in 16 (supposedly...), does that mean the chance of any given group of 3 consecutive attacks all being crits is 1 in 4096 (16 x 3)? I'm talking about any 3 given moves side-by-side, I know that each individual move has a 1/16 chance... it's combination probability that I'm uncertain of.


    ... I'm asking that since that's what lead to my loss.
  13. Dr. Eyepatch

    Dr. Eyepatch

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
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    Fixed it for you.

    In any case, it really depends on how you approach the situation of probability. It is true that, assuming each move has a normal critical hit ratio and the hold item does not affect it, three consecutive critical hits happening would be a 1 in 16^3 chance. It is also true to say that, at the end of the day, it is a 1 in 16 chance that each individual attack will occur as a critical hit. In short, take it as you wish.

    On the subject of the Battle Frontier, I have been watching this thread and, I must say, you are all doing great. ^_^ Personally, I have been trying to hammer away at the Battle Factory, mostly because battles after #28 are the most entertaining. However, my highest streak is 33. Several times have I lost to untimely critical hits... but, I am certain this is a tragedy we all face.
  14. sonyc456

    sonyc456

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
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    Id like to thank everyone who helped me out on this forum, especially jumpman and Shelcario. You've answered many questions and helped with team builds ect..

    I just wanted to say that you suggested rebreeding poke with better IVs and i didnt know about it and it helped tremendously, and i still have much work to do and other builds to try.

    Anyway i finally beat Battle Tower Floor 49, and then some. Specifically i got to floor 60 then died, but a good run since i couldnt pass 42 before. Nothing to screenshot or brag about clearly many of you have way surpassed that floor, but this is a first for me and I had to thank all of you for bearing with me and helping me out on my noobish questions, I will continue to perfect my team and try some new teams and get some higher scores. Thanks again, I will be back with more victories!
  15. Shoeman

    Shoeman

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    Oct 12, 2008
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    Platinum battle factory singles open level record: 43
    http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Shoeman/Gamez/factory.jpg

    That was a really awesome streak until that last bit. I made teams like Starmie/Tyranitar/Garchomp and Latios/Suicune/Tauros but I had a terrible selection of pokes before battle 43 (I only remember using Nidoking; it was a long time ago) and I think I got badly owned by a CM Golduck on battle 44 lol.
  16. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

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    IT WAS ME

    OK??? MEEEEEEEEE

    lol

    now this is something i'm sure you won't mind me "arguing" about! when you play as much as i do this becomes as objective a question as there is, so allow me to give you a little peek into why i can say that and say that's it's really more about experience than anything else.

    OHKOers: i'll go from peterko's post. my Latios is 178 speed and Scizor is 107 speed

    542, Abomasnow 2, Bold, Big Root, 186, 100, 127, 112, 126, 80, Giga Drain, Sheer Cold, Ingrain, Leech Seed, HP/Def/Sp.Def

    dont care, doesn't always use SC anyway and is slower than latios after the trick even if it uses SC and hits first turn

    937, Articuno 4, Modest, Charti Berry, 165, 94, 120, 161, 177, 105, Ice Beam, Air Cutter, AncientPower, Sheer Cold, Sp.Attk/Sp.Def

    dont care, latios is faster and i can set up scizor fully even if it goes 5-for-5

    651, Dewgong 3, Calm, Salac Berry, 186, 81, 121, 90, 149, 90, Sheer Cold, Horn Drill, Rest, Sleep Talk, HP/Def/Sp.Def

    dont care, latios is faster and i can set up scizor fully even if it goes 5-for-5

    798, Glalie 4, Modest, Lax Incense, 187, 90, 100, 145, 100, 100, Blizzard, Dark Pulse, Sheer Cold, Hail, HP/Sp.Attk

    dont care, latios is faster and i can set up scizor fully even if it goes 5-for-5

    602, Lapras 2, Impish, Quick Claw, 205, 105, 145, 94, 147, 80, Sheer Cold, Perish Song, Sing, Confuse Ray, Def/Sp.Def

    dont care, latios is faster. "i could get QC Sheer Colded three times in a row" isn't bad luck, it's "haha really" and not even worth consideration. 0.0216% chance

    736, Walrein 3, Bold, Lax Incense, 185, 90, 156, 115, 142, 85, Sheer Cold, Fissure, Rest, Sleep Talk, Def/Sp.Def

    dont care, latios walls this entirely even if i miss with cresselia and get sheer colded on turn one

    544, Nidoking 2, Careful, BrightPowder, 177, 112, 118, 94, 127, 105, Focus Punch, Dragon Pulse, Horn Drill, Substitute, HP/Def/Sp.Def

    dont care, latios is faster and this needs near max damage to break latios's sub with dragon pulse after a calm mind. i trick it into sub (this has always happened in practice) and win, or trick it into HD and win with a faster latios, or miss and don't care what it does because it will have a maximum of four HDs to try and hit latios with after it kills cresselia (even if it tries to kill cress with literally all 10 DP PP instead of using horn drill once[why would it do this], it needs near-max damage with all of them or a CH to then threaten latios with literally all five horn drills hitting, anything else and latios is able to get a CM and Rest whenever it wants

    689, Rapidash 3, Adamant, BrightPowder, 140, 167, 90, 90, 100, 157, Flare Blitz, Poison Jab, Iron Tail, Horn Drill, Attk/Speed (-2at. fblitz does 24-29dmg to chomp, IT does 28-33)

    the only ohko threat to me in theory, but i can reflect and wait for it to hit with horn drill, latios only needs +1 to ohko like 95% of the time. in practice i've seen a lead rapidash whose set i didn't know just once and i flashed it, of course it was this one but i got it to -3 acc and latios got to +2 or +3 (which is all it needs to ohko almost every pokemon a black belt or battle girl can use [the only trainers that can use a rapidash whose set i won't know])

    804, Rhydon 4, Adamant, Quick Claw, 212, 200, 140, 58, 65, 60, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Megahorn, Horn Drill, HP/Attk

    dont care, latios is faster. "i could get QC Horn Drilled three times in a row" isn't bad luck, it's "haha really" and not even worth consideration. 0.0216% chance

    741, Rhyperior 3, Impish, Focus Sash, 222, 160, 200, 67, 75, 60, Horn Drill, Avalanche, Payback, Counter, HP/Def

    dont care, latios is faster and i can set up scizor fully even if it goes 5-for-5 (it has gone 4-for-5 in practice)

    830, Pinsir 4, Adamant, Scope Lens, 140, 194, 152, 67, 90, 105, X-Scissor, Earthquake, Close Combat, Guillotine, Attk/Def

    dont care, latios is faster and i can set up scizor fully even if it goes 5-for-5

    713, Gliscor 3, Jolly, Focus Sash, 182, 115, 145, 58, 95, 161, Guillotine, Earthquake, U-turn, Counter, HP/Speed

    dont care, needs to go 4-for-4 to beat me and has only used guillotine once in my many times facing it as a lead

    338, Kingler 2, Jolly, Salac Berry, 130, 182, 135, 63, 70, 139, Crabhammer, Guillotine, Flail, Endure, Attk/Speed


    still don't care, i allowed it its 3-for-3 once months ago and now that i know the extent of my personal bad luck, i paralyze it then try to switch scizor in to get cress back in to use flash so i can set up latios on crabhammer, i've done this about four times successfully since "lol 3-for-3"

    and as for consecutive CHes, there are so few that the rest of my team even cares about if they even happen to faint cresselia, certainly not in the 150 battles it takes to get to 200. flare blitz and brave bird are at the top of the list but everything else is either walled by latios/scizor (for the sake of argument latios doesn't "wall" flare blitz), but after that, you are going to actually need three consecutive CHes to threaten those two, which is 0.024%, only slightly more likely than "lol 3-for-3" OHKOs. it can happen, but incredibly unlikely in 150 battles.

    yes, he did. he also posted that he lost to the very things his team had no business losing to, iirc heracross staraptor and metagross (which are coincidentally the things i've warned all trick users to watch out for beforehand, though you shouldn't misinterpret this as me having to remind you all i'm the best)

    and if you're going to use peterko as an example, why do you think he's like 2000-1 since his last "completely avoidable" loss? was he that unlucky to lose so many times before winning 70-straight battles with a trick team, but now so *lucky* to have lost only once in 2000 battles? or does it have much more to do with experience and skill than anything else?

    in my "opinion", a well-built trick team has nemeses you can count on just one hand, and a well-executed strategy can dispatch with them and virtually eliminate the "real" nemesis of CHes and Brightpowder and QCs.

    i dont know if this is a reference to my own SSS team and how i may have mentioned i used in in emerald, but even if it is i think you'll notice i haven't once tried to "take credit" for your success with your team. and while i can doubt that some "japanese guys" came up with glenscarfing first (glen did), that isn't even the point. the point is that these are records threads, but at the same that they're only wildly popular threads because people share their stories and strategies and solicit advice. if it were just about posting numbers and records, nobody would care, let alone be able to verify much. as i said a couple days ago, it's an interesting dynamic for this to be a "records" thread when i and others post our team strategies that can allow others to get big streaks as well.

    basically: don't ask (repeatedly) for my help when i am not the least bit inclined to give it to you, especially if i don't want you getting a big record with a team i know can do it, and then refuse to acknowledge/apologize for calling someone the luckest man on earth after you borrowed one of his #1-record pokes to surpass him, and then tell me my pearl loss at 499 "wasnt that bad" and that my team isn't good enough to deal with bad luck


    i guess at the end of the day i should let numbers do the talking, so i'll just say that barring another "lightning strike", i will have a surprise for you guys in ~10 days (you guys dont *really* think i haven't surpassed 190 or whatever from like may, do you?)
  17. Miku

    Miku

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    71
    I got a 110 streak a few minutes ago in Battle Tower. Here's the team I used:

    Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31 / 31 / 26 / 16 / 27 / 31
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang

    Salamence is a good lead thanks to Intimidate and its decent defences. After just one Dragon Dance it swept the opponents whole team so many times during my streak. I decided to use Fire Fang over Fire Blast because my Salamence is Adamant (instead of Naughty which most people seem to use) and its Special Attack IV isn't that great. And I really didn't want to lose because of Fire Blast missing. Lum Berry was good because I could easily set up on Pokémon that were carrying Hypnosis or Thunder Wave, the latter being very common. It also allowed another run of Outrage at some points which was nice.

    Scizor (F) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31 / 31 / 30 / x / 25 / 31
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Att / 226 Spe
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - X-Scissor
    - Superpower

    I needed something to switch into Ice attacks because of Salamence's 4x weakness to them and anyway, Scizor is an awesome sweeper. It worked really well with Salamence because Salamence owns every Fire type in Battle Frontier and Scizor is able to OHKO or 2HKO most Ice or Water types Salamence hates.

    Alakazam (M) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Synchronize
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 29 / x / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Signal Beam
    - Grass Knot

    First I had Tyranitar on Alakazam's place but I realized I needed a fast Pokémon that can also hit pretty hard. Focus Sash really saved me many times if Salamence had died to a critical hit and Alakazam was pretty much always a safe option since it would survive at least one hit (thanks to Focus Sash) and it outspeeds just about everything in Battle Frontier. It had problems with Bronzong, Cresselia and physical Arcanine (ExtremeSpeed). Focus Sash was really nice for those Quick Clawers and OHKO move users too. Alakazam was also a solid answer to most Water types with Grass Knot, especially Swampert, Whiscash and Quagsire. All of them were threats to Salamence because they're bulky enough to survive Outrage if Salamence hasn't Dragon Danced and they almost always carry an Ice type attack.

    Overall this was a decent team to use in Battle Tower but I really hate the hax (in Battle Frontier overall) since the computer seems to have critical hits all the time. I had some problems with Abomasnow (only with the one that knows Sheer Cold) because it happened too many times that I switched Scizor in to take an Ice Beam or Blizzard. Well, of course Abomasnow uses Sheer Cold and it hits in the very first try and Scizor is out. And thanks to Snow Cloak Alakazam is pretty useless against it. When Salamence had fainted I had huge problems with physical Arcanine because Alakazam fails to OHKO it with Psychic, it had ExtremeSpeed to deal with Alakazam and Flare Blitz to OHKO Scizor (Bullet Punch didn't finish it even if it had been hit with Psychic).
    I lost the 111th match to Ninetales because Salamence was out and Alakazam failed to OHKO it and Ninetales used Hypnosis (of course it didn't miss, this is Battle Frontier!) and Scizor failed to finish it with Bullet Punch. Actually I didn't feel that bad at all even though I lost because I only tried to get a 100 streak.

    I took pictures of my team and the streak record so where can I upload them?
  18. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,837
    @miku - congrats on breaking 100 with a fun team :)

    @peterko - was interesting to hear your thoughts on the trick stuff, and how badly you can still get haxed (marowak story). in fact i thought i would have something similar to report this morning (will post below).

    see this makes me wonder if your memory wasnt quite serving you right. i have literally timed how long it takes starmie to defeat a trainer in 3 turns, and it is 1:10 between the exact same points in two consecutive battles. there is also 1:15-1:20 lost between sets, depending on which door you walk through (lol). so that actually adds up to an absolute minimum of 9:25 x 3 = 28:15 for starmie finishing battles 1-21 in 3 turns each. but we also have to add some extra time for palmer's speeches, and his stupid slow walk. if there was even one battle that starmie didnt OHKO everything, i dont think it would be even possible to do 1-21 in under 30 mins. i'm not calling you a liar, but suggesting that maybe the timer you were using (or your memory) may not have been 100% accurate.

    it's really not worth arguing about i guess, but i'm just concerned that perhaps that is a record that will be impossible to surpass (not that anyone really tries it seriously).

    really cant wait to see your video on youtube!! and yeah, jumpman is probably waaaaaay past 300 lol :(

    really enjoyed your analysis of the OHKO'ers. i'm giving this trick stuff a try, and i will certainly benefit from your advice.

    please don't get me wrong - i am not one of these people saying "oh you're so lucky". far from it. in fact, there was an acknowledgement that my SSB team needs luck to get 100. i dont mean it needs luck to ever get there, but that in every attempt at getting to 100, there might be a say 80% chance that crazy-hax wont finish me, meaning that i have to have "luck" on my side. but of course, with repeated attempts, sooner or later it will work out for me. i mean that team got over 200 in emerald, and i put that down to luck (its defeat did not come at the hands of a OHKO team like i thought it would, but rather an armaldo that got a few stat boosts from ancient power). trick teams do have a very small number of real "problem opponents", so that the odds of losing any given battle might be say 1/1000, but even then to get to 1000 battles you have about a 2/3 chance - the chance of failing is about the same as the chance of sheer cold hitting - and i dont think any of us would be comfortable watching the AI attempt to hit us with sheer cold, with an entire 1000-streak hinging on its failure to hit lol....

    also, i am by no means accusing you of taking any credit for my "success" with teams similar to yours. youve never said anything along those lines, and im not trying to pretend you did. i was just saying that two people on different sides of the globe can have no knowledge of eachother, yet come up with very similar teams (for nearly identical reasons). the point was more that it's silly to try and assign "ownership" to teams/ideas. however, it IS an important point to make that the people who have come up with the most successful teams have been very kind to share their ideas/strategies, so others can (and do) copy them and have successes of their own. it does suck to come up with something and then see people take it and invest much more time/effort than you are able to invest yourself, and then surpass your own benchmarks (and possibly start to act like they're superior). it's definitely not what i am trying to do.

    i really hope this wasnt aimed at me. i am pretty sure i have never asked for help in how to use someone else's team (especially since there is sufficient information in the thread already). in fact, i am working on a trick team revolved around salamence, but have only asked one person (Dr Dimentio) in private for his opinion. i'd prefer to be able to say i at least did *something* on my own, even if i do steal the trick idea. your team is ridiculously good, and the 499 proves that entirely. if you had "better luck" you would have encountered that (extremely tricky) team and its (extremely crappy) hax at like battle 50 - you would have just said ah bugger it, and started again and probably never faced it again in your life, and still been going at 1337 by now.

    looking forward to hearing about your new surprise. 1337 in the battle factory? haha.......




    well, anyway, like i said about, im planning to try a trick team based around latias+registeel+salamence. latias because of all the trick leads ive used and seen discussed in this thread, i think latias has the most useful options available to it. registeel because when your two attackers need to be focused around combined resistences, you'd be MAD to not have a steel type (and who could possibly do it better than registeel). salamence because of its slightly superior combined resistence (only type not resisted is electric - i didnt like the fact that registeel+garchomp had problems with ground/fighting - granted, latias resists those moves, but i have seen leads use focus blast for eg), and also because between them they have resistences to basically all the crazy-120 moves apart from thunder and volt tackle (registeel ftw). salamence also has intimidate which could help if latias is unable to get enough charms in. also a second line of defense against that insane gastrodon (switch to absorb all IB+EP).

    anyway, im still waiting on the salamence i plan to use (bred by rename card), so i figured i'd give it a go with garchomp in its place. yes i am using peterko's EXACT team. i have to say i like the fact that SD lets you set up in only a few turns, so i will be watching closely with salamence to see if his need for more setting up turns is too much of a weakness. it also should be said that i had had the idea for using garchomp as a third sweeper in a trick team a long time ago (my idea back then was cresselia+scizor+garchomp). i think i could even give some kind of evidence - i asked rename card (same guy) to breed me a garchomp which i planned to use in the BT back in my trading thread. this is not to say it was all my idea, or that peterko copied me (lolololol) but just to make myself feel *slightly* better for using a team that is completely identical to peterko's (which IS what i'm doing).


    anyway, a couple of observations as i made my way from 49-84 in the last couple of days.

    • thought i would get clever against a jolteon lead. switched to registeel to take the shadow ball and draw the thunderbolt on turn 2. went back to latias, and got TB'd as planned. then i tricked, but it did shadow ball. i should have known this would happen, but anyway, i learned the "hard way" (not really, steel just set up and then laughed).
    • another moment of "almost cleverness" happened in a battle i almost lost. i'd dealt with a lead CB aero - i charmed it a couple of times and switched in steel, keeping latias alive (still had its scarf which is awesome). steel set up fully and in came donphan. fissure breaks suib, and iron head fails to OHKO. should have switched i guess, but my streak was low and i didnt care too much. fissure #2 hits and +6/+6/+6 steel went down. latias back in, expecting SE, used trick - success as SE missed. latias recovered/charmed until the last SE was used. then my stupidity - i tricked again so i could lock it onto seed bomb, but it struggled to death (IH took it to red before) even after it got its item back (i guess it "selects" the move before the turn and then does that no matter what). next turn lucario comes out, and i know it has dragon pulse (which it will use for sure). latias now has a choice scarf, and can only use trick (makes lucario faster than garchomp) or switch to chomp (yes i tried using thunderwave but i was locked). so i just switched chomp in (makes no difference) who survived DP and EQ'd it.
    i guess that last battle illustrates the idea of "experience" over luck. there were ways i could have dealth with it far better, but you have to learn the hard way. i expect that if i ever do get a good streak, it will be after plenty of low ones.

    • also had a really gay match where a lead metagross got 4 attack rises out of its first 5 MM's. including one on turn one. after turn 1 i was happy to see it did less than 50%, so i planned to twave it as well (charm no good) and recover to some decent health. but it got the attack rise straight up meaning i was gone next turn if it hit. i still twaved it, but sure enough it hit and got a second rise. so steel came in and had to start from behind in the stat rise count. eventually he got set up (no amnesias though because i just HAD TO get rid of this metagross) and i wasnt strong enough to renew my substitute on the last turn. next trainer was slowbro who obliged me by missing a couple of focus blasts (yes it did lol) and i think the 3rd poke was easy enough. seriously though, what are you supposed to do in the face of 4 attack rises on a metagross?!?!?!?!?!
  19. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    let latias die turn 2 and kill it with garchomp, unless you use salamence with outrage, then you have to let latias die and set up steel

    1540

    haven´t played any battles today (yesterday, tuesday) though
  20. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,837
    so, garchomp OHKO's with outrage, and then chomp+registeel take on the as-yet-unknown 2 pokes on their own? i guess it would be the best bet probably, and they are good enough that they should be able to do it. maybe its a reason why garchomp could be better than salamence....

    half way to 2000!


    EDIT: i remember being mortally disappointed when d/p came out that registeel didnt learn gyroball. now i feel even more so.....
  21. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,754
    "dont listen to peterko he's just trying to sabotage your streak!"

    jolly garchomp's eq will never ohko metagross4 (not even close, 73-87%) and +2 metagross will always ohko garchomp with MM. so if you went in with the intention of ohkoing metagross with EQ, you would be unpleasantly surprised to see +2 metagross remain on your screen. you did the right thing even if you don't realize it.

    peterko had a slightly similar battle against lead metagross a few months ago where he also asked for help afterwards, and i advised going to garchomp to get metagross off his screen as soon as possible. however, the difference between the two battles is that his latias got CHed and died on turn one with meta getting an attack raise. yours did not die, which allowed meta to get a second attack raise. this makes all the difference in the world, since +1 metagross will never ohko garchomp with meteor mash, but +2 metagross always will. so if this happens next time go to registeel and get some curses...you will still be faster than paralyzed metagross after one curse and after two it's back to not being able to break your sub, barring additional attack raises. if it DOES get additional attack raises i'd advise taking a few shots at it with IH before setting up fully, to cover your ass should it CH registeel and allow garchomp to OHKO it cleanly with EQ (two IHs at even +1 will guarantee garchomp kills it with one EQ).

    at any rate, this is one of the major—if only—selling points of reflect over charm, and the reason i've beaten about a dozen lead metagross4 trainers straight since losing in pearl to meta/"lol one of the two pokemon out of ~63 that jogger ryne could have used second to put +4 naked scizor in trouble in arcanine (gyarados was the other)"/mamoswine. iirc (that ~63 and gyarados and mamoswine stiff is from memory) meta got three attack boosts in four turns, but thanks to reflect, scizor was still able to get into a position that allowed him/latios to beat literally 97% of the poke 2 possibilities (+4). charm is obviously one of the best moves a trick team can use, but it is a mere coincidence that the hands-down biggest threat to any trick team in metagross4 (i think this is obvious by now to everyone who's tried a trick team) is stymied by reflect almost entirely

    also to address the other stuff you said:

    if you repeatedly press A or tap the screen from the time right after you KO something to the time your next attack lands, it makes a substantial difference. peterko has hinted that he does this and i dont think everyone realized that you can speed up some of the text there

    i understand you, the point i'm trying to make is that this records thread doesn't have much else to go on but strategies and stories and sharing. so when someone helps you get a better record, you should feel much, much more obligated to thank/acknowledge them than they were to help you get a "possibly-better-than-their" record in the first place.

    i'm only concerned with this thread and this community, though. like, if i reeeeeally didn't want others flirting with 500 and beyond i would never share any strats and stories in this thread (and could do nothing but commend those who pass it)...but then my post count would be about 300 posts lighter and how ever would i pass the time at work...

    i know, and it wasnt. (though lol in a complete coincidence you just did ask for help on how to use peterko's team later in the very same post [even if the "?????????????" implies you were only being rhetorical {which isn't entirely warranted because you can still beat it but hey}], though the point is you acknowledging this as im sure you would without being prompted [you've already done this with my ohko analysis and "you're welcome!"].)
  22. Ferrouswheel

    Ferrouswheel

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    805
    I'm rather new around here, and I was hoping to beat 100 matches in the BT for the purpose of getting the last star and the black card. Are there honestly only 29 people on smogon who have done that, or is it just that most people don't care enough to report it?
  23. Case

    Case

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4
    Hey folks,

    Been trying to get a fair amount of tower wins but i haven't even managed to meet the tycoon for the second time (highest i got was 46). I read some of the stuff on here and made a trick Metagross to lead, but got fairly disappointed - i'm probably just doing it wrong, but i got my ass handed to me in the early twenties the three times i tried to use it.

    So i got to thinking: Smeargle @ Focus Sash with Spore/aromatherapy/lunar dance/fake out?
    I'm pretty amateuristic and i haven't even caught the roaming Cresselia yet to sketch Lunar Dance, so what are your ideas? Waste of time or worth a shot?

    Currently using trick Metagross, DD Salamence, and Sword Dancing Lucario, although i kind of miss my DD Feraligatr, loved playing that guy.
  24. Burn Jack

    Burn Jack

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    175
    You mean 25, right? I'd imagine that a lot of people don't report it, or maybe don't even aim for 100 after getting the gold medal (or whatever it's called). Using the strategies developed here, it should be fairly straightforward to get a streak over 100, so don't let the apparent paucity of people passing 100 discourage you.
  25. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,483
    case the battles 1-49 aren't meant to be that challenging. Use a standard team that works to beat others quickly with type coverage and offense. Trick teams should be utilized from 50 and on for larger streaks.

    Starmie / Garchomp / Tyranitar is Jumpman's original BT team that is very fast to burn through the first 49 trainers. it's linked on the first page of this thread. I currently use Starmie Garchomp and the Metagross listed below

    I used this team for a while and it's also solid, sporting a very good win/loss ratio but it does take a bit more time:

    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    Counter - Destiny Bond - Shadow Ball - Thunderbolt

    Garchomp @ Lum
    Swords Dance - Earthquake - Outrage - Fire Fang (mostly coverage, Aerial Ace works for DTers too though)

    Metagross @ Muscle Band/Leftoevrs
    Meteor Mash - Bullet Punch - Earthquake - Explosion

    The reason I like this Metagross is that Gengar should successfully kill the first two pokes through either outright attacking or Counter, then Destiny Bond for the second. If it can beat the first attacking, the second with counter, and the third kills it after taking some damage, Metagross can easily clean up with Bullet Punch. Metagross can also come in after Gengar takes down two pokes and simply Explode and KO just about everything that doesn't resist, leaving Garchomp completely untouched. The ability to have priority and Explosion is really Metagross's best trait for me (no Shadow Punch Muk is shit and the others are even worse).

    Use basically standard EV spreads and natures, Timid for Gengar, Jolly for Chomp and Adamant for Metagross.


    I haven't been able to battle lately, I'm back at 0 still and will probably try and get myself back up to par next week, too much going on right now to play unfortunately.

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