1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,837
    noone said it would be quick, but if you spend a bit of time breeding better pokes, you'll save stacks of time since you wont keep losing to things you should never have lost to. i mean not to be rude, but if your garchomp cannot OHKO an electivire, then you will have difficulty getting very far.

    hehe luck certainly plays a part no matter what. but i know in emerald i tried open level for months, then decided to give level 50 a try (battles 1-21 had such easier pokes) and literally got the gold symbol on the first try.

    congrats on the great streak, and commiserations on just missing out on facing the brain.

    oh no, that is just purely my own perspective on the battle. even if it got 5 crits on silver wind, registeel would have still been alive or maybe KO'd on the last one at which point salamence gets at least 2-3 DD's and a sub. that is normally enough, but as this particular battle turned out it would have been a guaranted win against the rampardos and electivire. so frustrating how one single bad idea can lead to the end of a good streak - i would have been so happy to have discovered it in battle 50.

    i havent done heaps of rng stuff in the 4th gen apart from breeding, but when i first learned it in emerald, i found it incredibly fun just because of the simple fact that if you follow a few steps correctly, you get great pokemon :) but you're certainly right that theres no reason to expect anything to be fast. but compared to the weeks i spent breeding some of my older pokes from scratch with single-31 ditto's, rng-abuse is a walk in the park - you know you will get it if you keep at it.

    well, registeel does an amazing job - since it has more resistences than salamence, it probably wins about 80% of my battles. so i could imagine a slow 3rd poke doing a good job as its partner as long as you can find someone suitable for the job.

    but then again, you said "without setup" so maybe you dont want to use registeel? also, i imagine youre not planning on using a trick lead in this team? my salamence + blissey + milotic/suicune teams have done reasonably well (nowhere near 313) and, apart from salamence, none of them would be described as fast, but they're not at all sweepers really (apart from maybe suicune with calm mind, but you dont want stat up moves).

    nice streak - did it take you many tries to get it? i imagine it must have because i can think of too many scenarios that would beat your team easily. to get a long way, you would have had to have a run that was pretty devoid of the situations (or you needed some luck to get around them).

    1. second pokemon is faster than articuno and KO's the sub while you use mind reader, then finishes you before you can use sheer cold. it's then swampert vs pokemon 2 and the mystery 3rd poke. certainly no guarantee of a win.
    2. second pokemon is slower, but still breaks the sub on the mind-reader-turn before you KO it with sheer cold next turn. then the third poke can beat articuno and swampert - eg cradilly who has stab moves that both your guys are 4x weak to. (i know articuno can prob stall out stone edge with sub then roost of damage, but there'd be other things.)
    3. swampert gets fully set up against their lead, and then pokemon 2 has a special grass move. swampert has to switch out of course, but theres no guarantee articuno can beat it. substitute would be a good move for your swampert to have, since in such a situation you could at least hopefully OHKO them with +6 waterfall as they break your sub, and then you'll be facing the 3rd poke naked.
    4. faster things that can put you to sleep before you sub.
    5. hax in general (QC OHKO'ers for example).
    i know clever switching can help eliminate some of these risks but you will certainly need an element of luck. moves like stone edge are often chosen at random even if they are not the most logical, so you could switch articuno in to take a grass move from cradilly and then get hit by an unexpected stone edge.

    dont get me wrong, im not saying anything bad about you or your team - im actually really impressed you got so far with it, seeing as it is a bit different from the standards these days. this is not a 99.999% guaranteed win team, so i think 198 is about as awesome an achievement as i think could be possible with it.
  2. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    173
    Ah yes, I made you misinterpret because I didn't phrase it clearly enough - I was using the "without setup" in reference to not using any of the sweepers (usually Dragons) that are often used alongside a Steel-type. In other words, my inquiry was about the possibility of using a team that consists of

    1. Trick lead (I think this thread has established that only Trick teams have any chance of getting streaks of multiple hundreds... as much as I would love to devise a new strategy that could be just as effective),

    2. Typical Steel-type (in other words, Registeel)

    3. Another poke that requires many turns of setting up to become pseudo-invincible.

    But regardless of your opinion on this type of team, I'll probably try it anyway, since only a practical test can really confirm a theory.

    Also, as for the streak posted by new user EonADS - just thought I'd add something to Bozo's list of major threats:

    *Any faster Pokemon than Swampert, which in your case would be almost everything even before a single Curse, would easily ruin it with a Grass-type special move. In fact, having 2 Pokes with 4x weaknesses (Rock for Articuno, Grass for Swampert) makes it very hard to survive hax in the Tower.

    If your camera can take photos (most of them have that feature), why can't it take a photo of the screen? Surely the numbers would be at least readable, even if rather blurry?

    I'm not saying I don't believe the streak (bloody lucky though, and using the infamous MR + Sheer Cold on the Tower is something I always wanted to try), but as a general rule, I don't believe much that isn't proven.
  3. darkseeker4

    darkseeker4

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    354
    Not to mention fasthippo and beachboy did a brilliant job of developing the Yawn stratergy which is much more effective then it looks as I have used it myself. Though may require more brains to use and more luck as well as less reliable but it got fasthippo quite far like top5 and beachboy is one on the battle arcade list and peterko did heck of a job with his LSS team...

    Im not denying that trick teams are the best but this isn't the "only" stratergy to get you score into a couple of hundreads...
    And im pretty sure there are more stratergys out there to be discovered, pokemon is a vast world :)
  4. Destiny100

    Destiny100

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    785
    I want to attempt the Battle Hall to get my gold print =D. Which ones should I leave till last, and which 3 should I do first?
  5. Psy37

    Psy37

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    176
    Start out with the Pokémon's weaknesses, and leave the easy stuff for last. The levels of your opponents increases as you go, so you want to defeat the troublesome opponents quickly. For instance, Garchomp should almost always beat Ice first.
  6. EonADS

    EonADS

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    490
    Thanks, it did take a while to get used to using the team. I had four notable streaks.
    1st: 89
    2nd: 108
    3rd: 134
    4th: 198
    As for the other three attempts, I had two failures before battle 49, and one around battle 60 or so.


    There was quite a bit of luck on my part. However, the team is far harder to break down than people give it credit for. Basically, the main things that could break Articuno's Subs were either SE (which Swampert could handle), or powerful with low PP, which got shot down by Sub/Roost and Pressure. Articuno is a powerful defensive Pokemon, even with its common weaknesses.

    Sub/Roost allowed me to stall these things most of the time. Also, Articuno isn't an easy Pokemon to OHKO, even with Super Effective moves. Also, there was quite a lot of switching on my part.

    The Cradily in the BT carry either Stone Edge or Ancientpower, both of which are easy to stall with Sub/Roost. Not too much would be able to deal with both Articuno and Swampert that easily.

    This actually happened a few times. I was thinking about using Sub over Return, but I have yet to try it. I'll have to do that, then.

    That's the beauty of TrickScarf Spiritomb. If the lead was locked into a sleep inducing move, they would lose all PP of that move and be struggling when they faced Articuno. Articuno would normally have a Sub up before the second Pokemon came out, so they'd have to break it first.

    Two types of OHKO moves affect Spiritomb, Fissure and Sheer Cold. Articuno is unaffected by Fissure, so the risk factor is basically 25% of what it would normally be. I'm not saying that it wasn't a problem, but it wasn't a huge one.

    It did help, but it wasn't foolproof, that's why I had seven attempts with it. Your signature shows that clearly, but the AI will usually select moves that at least do neutral damage. I've had Heatran use Dragon Pulse on a Latias when I had Scizor out the turn before, but it's at least somewhat predictable.

    Yeah, this team was basically made out of boredom and getting fed up with the usual generic TrickScarf ideas. I might break 200 if I got lucky, but I agree with you that 198 is probably as far as I'll go.

    The thing is, most Pokemon don't carry both types of moves at once, Cradily and Sceptile being notable exceptions. I'm not saying that it's not a problem, but it's not that big of a problem.

    Nope. My digital camera is a really old piece of junk. The pixles of the screen of any electronic device screw it up completely. At best, you'd get fuzzy blobs that are completely illegible.

    I don't blame you for that. MR+Sheer Cold is a fun thing to work with, but it's not overly effective. Generally, TrickScarf teams operating around Steel/Dragon setup are far and away the better choice.
  7. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,755
    it could not possibly depend more upon what pokemon you plan on using

    seconding the support of learning RNG abuse. at first it took me like 2-3 hours to learn it and calibrate my DS and follow the steps correctly, but after that it was an absolute joy to get literally exactly what i wanted. i was able to catch my 31/10/31/27/31/31 Bold Cresselia in about 30 minutes legitimately with a Heal Ball, and Timid 31/31/31/31/31/31 Darkrai took 19 minutes days after that in a Luxury Ball. my Bold 31/10/31/27/31/31 Mesprit (Bold 31/x/31/x/31/31 is the same exact seed so this isnt a coincidence) took like 20-30 minutes

    when compared to the time you would other spend breeding/catching just one pokemon, the 2-3 hours it takes to learn RNGing is seriously nothing and it is actually fun in the event of catching pokemon because you can catch them the way you're "supposed to" the old-fashioned way by whittling down hp and chucking non-masterballs (i'm incredibly aware that porting masterballs over from emerald via pal park is not only fair game but encouraged but it's also less fun)



    very nice job on the streak (and funny that it equaled peterko’s best from dp)! glad you realize you could have played it better in hindsight, but i don’t think tricking is the right way to go at all especially when you know that it is yanmega three. i think you should have paralyzed it in spite of its lum berry. it can’t ohko latias without a ch, and you are either going to be facing a non-threatening speed boost yanmega with registeel, or you are going to be facing a paralyzed tinted lens yanmega with registeel. both are better than your alternatives of possibly facing a tinted lens yanmega that is almost guaranteed to boost its stats at least twice with 15 chances if you just switch in registeel without doing anything with latias, or getting garchomp just a sub and 2-3 Atk/Spe (depending on whether or not you have to roost) if you trick regardless of yanmega’s Ability.

    that said, i almost cant resist given your confidence in recover over flash, as it is evident here that it would have helped you immensely from the beginning and would be the obvious move to use against yanmega3. you don’t really want to trick it and only give salamence +3, especially since set 3 trainers can very much use steel pokemon that can weather a +3 outrage. against a lum berry speed boost yanmega, using TW means a 100% of hitting every turn against registeel vs. 75% at best if you flash, and it only has a 56.25% chance of hitting latias twice anyway. against a lum berry tinted lens yanmega, using TW means a 70.3125% chance that yanmega will have a 100% of hitting every turn against registeel (accounting for CH chance) vs. 45% at best, hitting through the first two flashes.

    anyway, i didn’t understand peterko’s inclination to keep latias as unfettered as possible, and i don’t understand yours either. if you were afraid of latias getting killed by a CH silver wind after you tricked on turn one, you should have been more afraid of the 50% chance yanmega was tinted lens and would do 36-42% to your registeel on the switch into the same exact first turn CH. it is incredibly rare to need your lead poke after setting up, and even rarer that it won’t be able to hamper the poke that hacked your set-up poke enough at a low HP even if you felt you had to switch it out instead of sacrificing it. especially with 154/158 speed, and especially because you *don’t* have a second hampering option in flash that you will need to use latias more than one turn for. you can only TW all the special attackers that gay your set-up poke, and while recover allows you to charm/recover/tw/charm, it’s secondary to my point of actually trying to keep latias at as high an HP total as possible when you first trick (and with salamence’s intimidate you don’t even need to rely on latias’s charm as much as you would if you weren’t using sala). latias is either going to get to paralyze the hacker or not by virtue of her speed and not how high her HP is. in this particular instance, registeel died and you couldn’t even consider tricking with your still-faster latias because of the chance it would use AP (and even then, OW is a 3HKO at +1), and this isn’t a coincidence—there’s almost nothing that, should registeel get hacked, you are going to want to actually trick, because salamence hates everything latias is locking the hacker into except bug moves. so that leaves tw, charm, and recover. you will only be able to tw basically anything once, and over half the time charm will be useless as will be recover

    tldr; going out of your way to save your lead is not a good idea, especially if you don’t have the ability to significantly hamper half of the pokemon you’d face anyway. is my endorsement of flash starting to get through to you guys yet?
  8. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    lol pokémon

    I haven´t read thoroughly the stuff that´s been posted in the past weeks, but I must´ve been blind to have missed the 459 post or something, because I´ve been "lurking" occasionally

    first of all, congrats on the streak

    yeah if it´s been said already, nevermind the following

    you´re supposed to thunder wave lead yanmega, at least I do...(not trick and hell, I´ve never switched in steel just like that in my 3300+ battles with that team)...if it has speed boost, lol

    if it has tinted lens, then you´re able to amnesia before mega attacks -> you "should" win

    obviously, latias should be left out to die to ensure a smooth as possible set up for steel against those tinted special attackers

    don´t know if I mentioned this, but the u-turn one tends to night slash first and u-turn afterwards (this is at least what I remember from the last 2 encounters with it)...t-wave + switch and then you should be able to get latias back with relative ease to trick the second poké, because of what they will use against registeel

    yeah, no pokémon for me (playing diablo 2 lol)

    happy 2010 everyone
  9. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,483
    i thought i was going to be playing more but i'm playing about the same amount due to my renewed addiction to super smash bros brawl. my buddy came home from college after playing all the time and beat the crap out of me so i've been playing daily to try and make sure that doesn't happen again. i still try and get in 7 battles a day but its honestly not much. i'm stll confident in the team though and am at 120-something with only one real match that has worried me thus far (sticky hold is a bitch).

    and as much as i really like latias, cresselia with flash is owning some shit hard and i agree with jump on this one. i sack it often if it means i can flash something down even to -3 or -4 accuracy almost guarantees a full set up for the sweepers, even on 100% accurate moves.
  10. CBshuckle

    CBshuckle

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    285
    Battle Hall Singles - 186 w/chomp
    Battle Tower Multi w/ cpu - 42 w/chomp and metagross
    Battle Castle Singles - 50 w/chomp, heracross, and metagross
    Battle Arcade Doubles - 78 w/gengar, chomp, and metagross

    Descriptions are all on page 70, picture for arcade doubles in sig.
  11. Team Rocket Elite

    Team Rocket Elite Data Integration Thought Entity
    is a Pokemon Researcher

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,006
    Platinum Double Battle Tower
    Team Rocket Elite (628) - Bronzong, Togekiss, Dusknoir, Snorlax

    http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/TREBattleFrontier1.JPG

    Almost the same team as before. You guys should know what the team does by now.

    Bronzong @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Heatproof
    Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Speed)
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Sp.Def
    -Trick Room
    -Iron Head
    -Earthquake
    -Explosion

    Same Bronzong.

    Lv2 Togekiss @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Serene Grace
    Nature: Naughty (+Atk, -SpDef) (not that it matters)
    EVs: ~50 Vitamins for Happiness in not-HP (not that it matters)
    -Protect
    -Endeavor
    -Follow Me
    -Foresight

    Same Starly.

    Dusknoir @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    Nature: Careful(+SpDef, -SpAtk) (Sassy would be better)
    EVs: 252 HP, 58 Def, 200 Sp. Def
    -Will-O-Wisp
    -Night Shade
    -Protect
    -Shadow Sneak

    Same Dusknoir.

    Snorlax @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Speed)
    EVs: 100 HP, 252 Atk, 160 Def
    -Double-Edge
    -Crunch
    -Earthquake
    -Selfdestruct

    Same Snorlax.

    Here are some of the battles with this team:
    71-58349-46120 vs CB Rhyperior TR Double Team
    76-46244-33609
    94-17639-33173 Battle 629

    Battle 629 was against an Ice Trainer. Their Mamoswine dodged two Explosions which led to my loss.


    Platinum Single Battle Arcade
    Team Rocket Elite (194) - Garchomp, Blissey, Gengar

    http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/TREBattleFrontier2.JPG

    Garchomp
    Trait: Sand Veil
    Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -SpAtk)
    EVs: 6HP, 252Atk, 252 Spd
    -Earthquake
    -Outrage
    -Swords Dance
    -Stone Edge

    Blissey
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    EVs: 252HP, 252Def, 6SpD
    -Seismic Toss
    -Counter
    -Aromatherepy
    -Softboiled

    Gengar
    Trait: Levitate
    Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
    EVs: 6HP, 252SpA, 252Spd
    -Thunderbolt
    -Counter
    -Shadow Ball
    -Destiny Bond

    I actually made this streak about 6 or 7 months ago so I don't remember it too well.
    I remember a point in it where the battle ended up with me having a burned Garchomp at 5 HP against a Floatzel who used Double Team 6 times, and managing to hit it with Earthquake for the victory.
    I think I ended up losing to an Ice Team that opened up with a Weavile, and the game panel for the match was neutral. Ended with Blissey vs. Lapras #1, which resulted in a loss.
    A lot of the battles are pretty much decided just on the game panel you stop on. after Battle 49, pretty much anything negative towards your team is certain death. Swap Team, mass burn/poison/paralysis, item panel giving a lagging tail or choice scarf to all your Pokemon, etc.


    Platinum Double Battle Hall
    Team Rocket Elite (323) - Gyarados, Gyarados + Gyarados, Gyarados as side board

    http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/TREBattleFrontier3.JPG

    Team A

    Lv100 Gyarados @ Choice Band
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.A)
    IVs: 27/31/29/18/25/31
    EVs: 32 HP, 254 Atk, 224 Spd
    -Waterfall
    -Earthquake
    -Bounce
    -Stone Edge

    Lv100 Gyarados @ Choice Band
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.A)
    IVs: 26/31/25/22/31/30
    EVs: 30 HP, 252 Atk, 228 Spd
    -Waterfall
    -Earthquake
    -Bounce
    -Stone Edge

    They both have the same moveset and speed. 254 Speed allows them to outrun Stantler who has Thunder which is one of the few Pokemon outside of Electric and Ghost that has a special based Electric attack.

    Team B

    Lv100 Gyarados @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.A)
    IVs: 21/31/26/15/31/30
    EVs: 44 HP, 252 Atk, 212 Spd
    -Waterfall
    -Dive
    -Earthquake
    -Outrage

    208 EVs gives 250 speed, which is brought up to 375 Speed by Scarf. This allows Gyarados to outrun everything in the Hall except for Electrode, who's out of reach without the use of Jolly over Adamant. It doesn't really matter too much that the Gyarados is outrun by Electrode since the one with a focus sash will be guaranteed to survive and can take both of them out in one earthquake.

    Lv100 Gyarados @ Focus Sash
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.A)
    IVs: 29/31/31/14/29/31
    EVs: 32 HP, 252 Atk, 224 Spd
    -Waterfall
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -Dragon Dance

    228 EVs gives 254 Speed, which allows the other Gyarados to base 85 Speed Pokemon without using Dragon Dance, and allows me to go before my Scarf Gyarados after one.

    How the 17 types were divided between the two teams of Gyarados is as follows

    Team A - Grass, Ice, Psychic, Rock, Dark, Poison, Water, Normal / Flying, Fighting / Steel, Fire, Bug
    Team B - Electric, Ghost, Ground, Dragon / Steel, Bug, Fire / Flying, Fighting

    The "/" divide the types into tiers. Types before the first division are done exclusively by one of the teams. The middle section are lower priority. The rightmost section is low priority. Although Team A doesn't have a problem with Steel, Fire and Bug, it avoids those types so Team B has more easy type to go though. Both teams can do Flying and Figthing, but Team A is prefered.

    Before 170, I fought types in this order:
    Electric, Ghost, Grass, Psychic, Normal, Ice, Flying, Poison, Fighting, Ground, Water, Rock, Dark, Dragon, Steel, Bug, Fire

    I used Team B for Electric, Ghost, Ground, Dragon, Bug and Team A for everything else.

    Starting from the 18th run (battle 171), here's which team and types I fight with each team:

    A18 Grass, Ice, Psychic, Flying, Rock, Dark, Fighting, Poison, Water, Normal
    B19 Electric, Ghost, Ground, Steel, Dragon, Bug, Fire, Electric, Ghost, Dragon
    A20 Grass, Ice, Psychic, Flying, Rock, Dark, Fighting, Poison, Water, Normal
    B21 Ground, Steel, Bug, Fire, Electric, Ghost, Dragon, Ground, Fire, Bug
    A22 Grass, Ice, Psychic, Flying, Rock, Dark, Fighting, Poison, Water, Normal
    A23 Steel, Grass, Ice, Psychic, Dark, Rock, Fighting, Poison, Water, Normal
    B24 Electric, Ghost, Flying, Ground, Steel, Dragon, Bug, Fire, Electric, Ghost
    A25 Grass, Ice, Psychic, Flying, Rock, Dark, Fighting, Poison, Water, Normal
    B26 Ground, Steel, Dragon, Bug, Fire, Electric, Ghost, Ground, Dragon, Bug
    A27 Grass, Ice, Psychic, Flying, Rock, Dark, Fighting, Poison, Water, Normal
    A28 Steel, Fire, Grass, Ice, Psychic, Rock, Dark, Poison, Water, Normal
    B29 Electric, Ghost, Ground, Dragon, Steel, Bug, Fire, Flying, Fighting, Electric
    A30 Grass, Ice, Psychic, Flying, Rock, Dark, Fighting, Poison, Water, Normal
    B31 Ghost, Steel, Ground, Bug, Dragon, Fire, Electric, Ghost, Ground, Dragon
    A32 Grass, Ice, Psychic, Flying, Rock, Dark, Fighting, Poison, Water, Normal
    B33 Steel, Bug, Fire, Electric, Ghost, Ground, Dragon, Steel, Bug, Fire
    A34 Grass, Ice, Psychic, Flying, Rock, Dark, Fighting, Poison, Water, Normal

    After 34 start back at 18.

    The biggest problem my team faced were Rotom and Mismagius. I always use Team B against these two Pokemon. My strategy is to have my Scarf Gyarados use Dive and my other Gyarados use Dragon Dance. Hopefully, one or both of the opponent use Thunderbolt on my Dived Gyarados and miss. Next turn I just waste the opponents with Dive and Waterfall. If both opponents aim for my Sash Gyarados with Thunderbolt, I lose. I don't know the details on CPU AI, but I probably have a close to 25% chance of losing. At Battle 324 I fought my fourth Rotom in that run, and they both went after my Sash Gyarados and I lost.

    It's unrelated to my streak but if you like Usaring, here's a video of my Gyarados getting smacked around by Usaring:
    37-40962-67923

    -------------------------------

    I wasn't happy with how my Gyarados did so I created a new Double Battle Hall team:

    Team A

    Lv100 Kingdra @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Swift Swim
    Nature: Modest (+Sp.A, -Sp.D)
    IVs: 10/11/26/30/31/30
    EVs: 78HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 180 Spd
    -Surf
    -HP-Fire 70
    -Ice Beam
    -Dragon Pulse

    Much like the Scarf Gyarados, the Scarf Kingdra has 250 speed risen to 375. Hidden Power Fire is only there for dealing with Abomasnow, which I never actually ended up facing with this Kingdra yet.

    Lv100 Kingdra @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Swift Swim
    Nature: Mild (+Sp.A, -Def)
    IVs: 31/23/29/31/31/31
    EVs: 78 Atk, 252 Sp.Atk, 180 Spd
    -Surf
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Outrage
    -Draco Meteor

    The second Scarf Kingdra on the team. This one has 251 speed, so that it moves before my other. This is important against Latios and Latias as it guarantees a win against them. The attack IV is a bit low but the loss of 8 attack doesn't affect its ability to KO the Lati. I'm sure some people would cry at the fact that this thing has 3 Dragon Type Attacks.

    Team B

    Lv100 Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sniper
    Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -Sp.A)
    IVs: 28/31/31/31/26/31
    EVs: 36HP, 252 Atk, 222 Spd
    -Surf
    -Outrage
    -Bounce
    -Leer

    Yes, Leer, Bounce, and Surf with hindered special attack. Bounce is there for dealing with Gyarados, while Surf proves itself surprisingly useful despite having 203 special attack due to STAB and Life Orb.
    220 EVs into Speed with a Spd+ Nature gives Kingdra 287 Speed which allows it to outrun the Garchomps that are in the hall by 1.

    Lv100 Kingdra @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sniper
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.A)
    IVs: 31/31/19/31/31/29
    EVs: 58HP, 252 Atk, 200 Spd
    -Waterfall
    -Outrage
    -Dive
    -Surf

    CB with 3 water attacks, one which is a special attack? Only in Hall.
    With Leer support from the other Kingdra, Outrage OHKOs a large number of opponents. Even things like Lapras, Walrein, Lickilicky, Snorlax, and Slowbro are taken down easily after a Leer.
    The water attacks are largely unused, as one may expect.
    Surf is used on rare occasions where the opponent is weak to it, has low special defense, or has intimidate. More often than not, two of the three are required.
    Dive is for Slaking, Dodging all it's attacks and attacking with a CB Boost makes a complete joke of what would otherwise have been a tough match.
    Waterfall isn't used, but Kingdra has no better moves to put over it.

    For the most part, Kingdra is guaranteed to take 2 hits of anything in the Battle Hall barring critical hits. Quite often, this is by a very narrow margin due to the opponents being capped at level 96, and that they all have an IV of 26. This fact has made a large number of things a bit less dangerous as Kindra stands up to 2 hits of Multitargeted Blizzards from Articuno/Walrein/Jynx/Regice, 2 Psychics from Slowbro/Slowking, 2 Crunches from Sharpedo/Crawdaunt/Snorlax, etc.

    The gap in stats also end up allowing for my Kingdras to be barely guaranteed OHKOs or 2HKOs against certain Pokemon.

    In this sense, Kingdra seems like it has just enough in its base stats and shallow movepool to do really well in Double Battle Hall, but just a bit more could have done wonders.

    How the 17 types were divided between the two teams of Kingdra is as follows:

    Team A - Psychic, Flying, Steel, Grass, Electric, Bug, Dragon / Ghost, Fire, Fighting / Rock, Ground
    Team B - Ice, Water, Normal, Dark, Poison / Rock, Ground / Ghost, Fighting, Fire

    As with Gyarados, types in the first section are done exclusively by the team listed, Middle group is middle priority and the right group is low priority. Team B prefers Ghost over Fighting or Fire. In my set up, Team B does Fighting once every 170 battles and never does Fire.

    Before 170, I fought types in this order:

    Psychic, Water, Ice, Grass, Normal, Flying, Steel, Poison, Dark, Fighting, Electric, Ghost, Rock, Ground, Bug, Dragon, Fire

    I used Team B for Ice, Water, Normal, Dark, Poison and Psychic. Team A covers the rest. I use Team B for Psychic because of Wobbuffet who doesn't show up in Rank 10. Team B can't deal with high level Metagross so Team A covers Psychic after 170.

    Starting from the 18th run (battle 171), here's which team and types I fight with each team:

    18A Grass, Electric, Ghost, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Fire, Steel, Fighting, Dragon
    19B Water, Ice, Normal, Dark, Poison, Ground, Rock, Water, Ice, Normal
    20A Grass, Electric, Ghost, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Fire, Steel, Fighting, Dragon
    21B Dark, Poison, Ground, Rock, Water, Ice, Normal, Dark, Poison, Ground
    22A Grass, Electric, Ghost, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Fire, Steel, Fighting, Dragon
    23A Rock, Grass, Electric, Fighting, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Fire, Steel, Dragon
    24B Ghost, Water, Ice, Normal, Dark, Poison, Ground, Rock, Water, Ice
    25A Grass, Electric, Ghost, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Fire, Steel, Fighting, Dragon
    26B Normal, Dark, Poison, Ground, Rock, Water, Ice, Normal, Dark, Poison
    27A Grass, Electric, Ghost, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Fire, Steel, Fighting, Dragon
    28A Ground, Rock, Grass, Electric, Fire, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Steel, Dragon
    29B Poison, Ghost, Water, Ice, Normal, Dark, Fighting, Ground, Rock, Water
    30A Grass, Electric, Ghost, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Fire, Steel, Fighting, Dragon
    31B Ice, Normal, Dark, Poison, Ground, Rock, Water, Ice, Normal, Dark
    32A Grass, Electric, Ghost, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Fire, Steel, Fighting, Dragon
    33B Poison, Ground, Rock, Water, Ice, Normal, Dark, Poison, Ground, Rock
    34A Grass, Electric, Ghost, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Fire, Steel, Fighting, Dragon

    After 34 start back at 18.

    Here's what Kingdra does on turn 1 against every single Rank 10 Pokemon and if not obvious, what to do on turn 2 as well:

    Fire (Team A or Team B)
    Team A
    Surf against everything

    Team B
    Surf + Waterfall against Camerupt, Torkoal, Arcanine
    Surf against Magmortar
    Outrage against Infernape (Use Surf if both Kingdra are Faked Out)
    Outrage + Waterfall against the rest

    Threats: (Team A) None, (Team B) Infernape
    Infernape is a threat due to being able to KO Kingdra with Fake Out + Close Combat due to Life Orb bonus. Fortunately, they aren't always guaranteed to use Fake Out properly, and sometimes use Fake Out twice on the same Kingdra. If they don't, you're pretty likely to lose.

    Water (Team B)
    -Surf + Outrage against Sharpedo (Surf w/ the CB Kingdra)
    -Surf against Cloyster
    -Surf + Outrage against Kingler, Blastoise
    -Leer + Outrage, then Bounce against Gyarados
    -Outrage against Slowking, Seadra, Seaking, Octillery, Mantine, Whiscash, huntail, Gorebyss, Relicanth, Floatzel, Lumineon, Golduck, Starmie, Tentacruel, Politoed
    -Leer + Outrage against the rest

    Threats: Relicanth, Sharpedo
    Relicanth survives Leer + Outrage, it can also survive two Outrages from the Life Orb Kingdra. Head Smash from Relicanth is also able to 2HKO. The CPU does seem to have a tendency to avoid using Head Smash so it might not be as threatening as I think it is, even if Outrage decides to completely fail in its random targetting.

    Sharpedo is dangerous due to holding Focus Sash, being faster than the CB Kingdra, and having Rough Skin. Kingdra is barely able to survive two Crunches, but after that a light tap will KO. This is the reason for the strange attacking set up where the CB Kingdra attacks with Surf, with this Kingdra can win as long as no criticals or defense downs occur.

    Grass (Team A)
    -Dragon Pulse against Ludicolo
    -HP Fire + Dragon Pulse against Abomasnow
    -Draco Meteor + Ice Beam against Tangrowth
    -Ice Beam + Dragon Pulse against Jumpluff, Tropius, Leafeon, Torterra, Shiftry (Target Separate)
    -Ice Beam + Dragon Pulse against others

    Threats: Torterra
    Torerra has Lax Incense, and can 2HKO with Wood Hammer. Although it is only really a problem if Ice Beam misses, and they KO that Kingdra.

    Electric (Team A)
    -Ice Beam + Outrage against Zapdos
    -Surf + HP Fire against Magnezone
    -Surf + Dragon Pulse against Jolteon
    -Surf + Outrage against Electabuzz
    -Dragon Pulse against Ampharos, Raikou
    -Dragon Pulse + Draco Meteor Lanturn
    -Surf against the rest

    Threats: Zapdos
    Outrage is rather Unreliable for targetting, but there wasn't any room to spare for Ice Beam on the second Kingdra which could have made things a bit easier.

    Ice (Team B)
    -Surf + Outrage against Weavile (Surf with CBKingdra)
    -Surf + Outrage against Regice
    -Surf against Cloyster, Piloswine
    -Leer + Waterfall against Mamoswine
    -Leer + Outrage against Dewgong, Abomasnow, Articuno, Walrein, Glaceon, Lapras
    -Outrage against Jynx, Froslass

    Threats: Weavile, Jynx, Froslass
    Weavile is a jerk, it's a similar situation as facing off against Sharpedo, except that the get to move even before my Life Orb Kingdra. Ice Punch Freezes or Night Slash Criticals tend to do Kingdra in pretty easily.
    Jynx is another problem Pokemon. They are faster, have brightpowder, and can hit both Kingdras at once with Blizzard. Turn 1 essentially goes with you praying that it doesn't get a freeze with blizzard. Sometimes they use Lovely Kiss instead of blizzard, but all in all the match comes down to you hoping that you don't get frozen, slept for 3 or 4 turns, and that you don't miss with Outrage.
    Froslass is similar to Jynx, although they will probably start off with Hail giving you a chance to end things before they start.

    Dark (Team B)
    -Surf + Outrage against Sharpedo (Surf w/ the CB Kingdra)
    -Surf + Outrage against Weavile, Absol
    -Leer + Outrage against Tyranitar, Crawdaunt, Spiritomb, Umbreon
    -Outrage against the rest

    Threats: Weavile, Sharpedo

    Dragon (Team A)
    -Dragon Pulse + Outrage against Latios, Latias
    -Ice Beam + Dragon Pulse against the rest (Target Separate)

    Threats: None

    Steel (Team A)
    -Surf + HP Fire against Magnezone, Forretress, Scizor
    -Surf/HP Fire + Outrage against Empoleon
    -Surf against the rest

    Threats: Metagross, Empoleon
    Good old Quick Claw Meta. Since they survive two surfs, a bit of bad luck with CPU targetting, Quick Claw + Zen Headbutt + Flinch can go a long way in ending a person's win streak
    Empoleon resists all of Kingdra's attacks. Fortunately, Kingdra resists all of Empoleon's attacks and they tend to waste turns using Yawn a lot. It takes about 4 hits to KO an Empoleon with Outrage or HP Fire, while Kingdra takes about 5 or 6 Flash Cannons to go down. That isn't to say that a bit of bad luck can't do you in, as you sometimes end up in situations where one Empoleon has activated a Petaya Berry, and both your Kingdras fall asleep due to Yawn.

    Poison (Team B)
    -Surf + Outrage against Venusaur
    -Surf against Nidoqueen, Nidoking
    -Leer + Outrage against Weezing, Muk, Drapion, Toxicroak, Swalot, Seviper
    -Outrage against the rest

    Threats: Crobat
    Brave Bird can 2HKO Kingdra, they tend to start off with Double Team though, for better or for worse.

    Bug (Team A)
    -Dragon Pulse against Heracross
    -Ice Beam + Surf against Vespiquen
    -Surf against everything else

    Threats: None

    Psychic (Team A)
    -Draco Meteor + Dragon Pulse against Slowbro, Hypno
    -Outrage + Dragon Pulse against Latios, Latias, Slowking
    -Outrage + Surf against Gallade, Espeon, Gardevoir, Grumpig
    -Ice Beam + Dragon Pulse against Xatu, Exeggutor
    -Surf + Dragon Pulse against Cresselia
    -Dragon Pulse agianst Starmie, Gallade, Uxie
    -Surf against Lunatone, Claydol, Solrock, Bronzong, Metagross, Alakazam, Girafarig, Azelf, Mesprit

    Threats: Metagross, Slowking
    Slowking is a bit tough to take out with Special Attacks, And they do have a small chance at a 2HKO with Psychic with high variant hits or with special drops. A 2 turn Outrage where you end up hitting yourself in confusion could probably cause a loss.

    Rock (Team A or Team B)
    Team A
    -Ice Beam + Dragon Pulse against Cradily
    -Surf + Dragon Pulse against Omastar, Kabutops
    -Surf against the rest

    Team B
    -Outrage against Relicanth, Aerodactyl
    -Leer + Outrage against Omastar, Kabutops, Cradily
    -Leer + Waterfall against Shuckle, Tyranitar
    -Surf + Waterfall against everything else

    Threats (Team A) Tyranitar, (Team B) Relicanth
    Sandstorm boosts are kind of annoying, they make Tyranitar able to survive two Surfs. Some bad luck with Stone Edge or Quick Claws can cause a loss

    Aerodactyl spams Sandstorm on turn 1. If it didn't, it would be a threat to Team B.

    Ground (Team A or Team B)
    Team A
    -Ice Beam + Draco Meteor against Torerra
    -Ice Beam + Dragon Pulse against Garchomp, Flygon
    -Draco Meteor + Dragon Pulse against Whiscash
    -Surf + Dragon Pulse against Swampert
    -Surf against the rest

    Team B
    -Outrage against Garchomp, Flygon, Whiscash
    -Surf against Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Piloswine
    -Leer + Outrage against Torterra, Gastrodon, Swampert
    -Surf + Waterfall against the rest

    Threats: (Team A) Torterra, (Team B) Torterra
    Torterra is a threat to Team B for roughly the same reason it is a threat to Team A.

    Normal (Team B)
    -Leer + Outrage against Clefable, Exploud, Ursaring, Porygon2, Blissey, Togekiss, Kangaskhan, Noctowl, Miltank, Snorlax, Lickilicky, Regigigas
    -Bounce + Dive against Slaking
    -Surf + Outrage agianst Tauros
    -Surf against Staraptor, Granbull, Stantler
    -Outrage against the rest

    Threats: Togekiss
    Thunderwave + Air Slash Flinches can be a real pain if I fail to KO one of them at the beginning, courtesy of BrightPowder

    Flying (Team A)
    -Draco Meteor + Ice Beam against Togekiss, Noctowl
    -Ice Beam + Outrage against Zapdos
    -Draco Meteor + Dragon Pulse against Articuno, Gyarados
    -Ice Beam + Dragon Pulse against Xatu, Jumpluff, Tropius, Dragonite, Altaria, Drifblim, Vespiquen, Crobat, Salamence
    -Dragon Pulse + Outrage against Mantine
    -Surf against Gliscor, Charizard, Yanmega, Scyther, Skarmory, Dodrio, Golbat, Ninjask, Staraptor, Fearow, Pidgeot, Aerodactyl, Moltres

    Threats: Togekiss, Gyarados, Articuno, Zapdos
    Gyarados and Articuno are dangerous as a miss with Draco Meteor will probably cause an instant loss.
    Much like for Team B in Normal, Togekiss is difficult to handle if one of Kingdra's opening attacks miss

    Fighting (Team A or Team B)
    Team A
    -Outrage + Surf against Gallade
    -Ice Beam + Dragon Pulse against Breloom
    -Surf + Dragon Pulse against Hitmonlee, Hitmontop. Hitmonchan
    -Surf against Infernape, Blaziken, Primeape, Lucario, Hariyama
    -Dragon Pulse against the rest

    Team B
    -Surf against Infernape (Use Surf if both Kingdra are Faked Out)
    -Surf + Outrage against Lucario
    -Leer + Outrage against Hariyama, Machamp, Toxicroak, Poliwrath
    -Bounce + Outrage against Heracross
    -Outrage against the rest

    Threats (Team A) Machamp, (Team B) Infernape
    DynamicPunch may be a cause for concern against Machamp as they are able to 2HKO Kingdra with it, adding Focus Band into the mix, it can be a real problem.


    Ghost (Team A or Team B)
    Team A
    -Dragon Pulse against Mismagius, Drifblim, Froslass
    -Surf against the rest

    Team B
    -Leer + Outrage against Dusclops, Dusknoir, Spiritomb
    -Outrage against the rest

    Threats: (Team B) Froslass


    After going through the ~4hour button mashing exercise of the first 170 battles a couple times, followed by a swift show of Hall hax killing my Kingdras before 200, I finally managed to get decent record. Here is a video of the battle I lost on:

    91-83735-71951

    Team A faced off against Togekiss when I went to deal with Flying Type.

    Turn 1, Draco Meteor misses, Ice Beam hits. A bad start.
    This is followed up with double Thunder Wave. At this point I can already feel live I'm about to lose. Not that this can affect any decision making in the battle, since there is no switching and both Kingdras are locked into their attacks after Turn 1.

    Turn 2. The Togekiss swing out with Air Slash, hitting separate targets. Both my Kingdra Flinch.
    Okay, from here on I need to get a critical or two, or else I've lost. It will still take another two Air Slashes to take out either of my Kingdras, so I'm not completely down yet.

    Turn 3. Some criticals occur...

    Togekiss used Air Slash!
    It's a critical hit!
    Kingdra fainted!

    Togekiss used Air Slash!
    It's a critical hit!
    Kingdra fainted!

    Definately not the criticals I was looking for. And with that, my Kingdras both died without being able to move after the opening assault.

    Platinum Double Battle Hall
    Team Rocket Elite (613) - Kingdra, Kingdra + Kingdra, Kingdra as side board

    http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/TREBattleFrontier4.JPG

    During the time playing Battle Hall, I ended up noticing a few things:
    -You cannot fight the same Pokemon twice in the same set of 10 trainers, unless there is nothing else to fight
    -You cannot fight the Pokemon Species as the one you are currently using in the Hall ever
    -The random generation of Pokemon you face in the Hall is not as random as I'd like sometimes. For example, I always seemed to fight Altaria, Dragonite or Kingdra when going through Dragon Type. Banette has got to be the most common Pokemon you'll ever see in the Hall. On the other hand, I've still never faced Leafeon, or Machamp. In my 613 Run, I'm pretty sure I fought Exeggutor at least 10 times, but never faced Latios once. If it was truly random, I should have a 1/14 chance of facing Rotom in Electric and a 1/9 in Ghost, and yet almost everytime I faced against Rotom, it had been going through Electric Type.
    -In Double Hall, if the Pokemon can have different Abilities (eg. Bronzong with Heatproof or Levitate), the two Pokemon will always have different abilities. However, the position of the Pokemon will be random. Therefore if you face against something like Bronzong, you will know that one has Heatproof, and one has Levitate, but not which is which.
  12. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Whoa, wow, that's amazing!
  13. dragonite_

    dragonite_

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    17
    Well first of all congrats to TRE and his massive streaks and alot of them too.
    I currently have an obsession with the battle hall trying out a sash salamence but my streak got reset because i have two young brothers (ages three and two) who are absolutely obsessed with the flashing colours on my ds and ejected my card around the 150 mark. Anyway i was wondering if anyone here would think this here might be a good pokemon in battle hall

    Heracross@salac berry
    Adamant
    Swarm
    Evs:12Hp/252Atk/240Spd
    -Endure
    -Reversal
    -Megahorn
    -Night slash

    134 speed to outrun everything but electrode after salac berry, Endure to boost reversals power to 200 and megahorn for stab and night slash for coverage as well as psychics and ghosts(shedinja). I undertand that hail/sandstorm can screw this over but only abomasnow tyranitar and hippowdon set it up automaticly while 2 are weak against my stabed megahorn while hippowdon has a massive defence stat and while writing gets me considering Lucario.
  14. Destiny100

    Destiny100

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    785
    I'm not an expert but wouldn't Priority moves or 1HKO moves mess you up?

    Also, I'm using a boring old SD, Fire Fang, EQ, Outrage Sash Garchomp for the battle hall.
    I have, Normal, Electric, Fire, Grass, Physic, Fighting, Flying left.
    Which ones should I do first and which one should I leave till last? =D
  15. CBshuckle

    CBshuckle

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    285
    Yea, priority moves are usually what end focus sash pokemon streaks, and endure salac seems less consistent and more vulnerable to status.
  16. EonADS

    EonADS

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    490
    Quite so. EndureScalacReversal pretty much met its end with the 4th generation. Lucario is pretty much the only one who can pull it off to any degree of effectiveness.

    I'd say Normal. You never know when one of those f*ckers is going to pull an Ice move out of nowhere. Then probably Psychic. As for last, Electric without a doubt. So probably

    Normal
    Psychic
    Flying
    Grass
    Fighting
    Fire
    Electric

    You should be set.

    Also, what move should I use to fill the last slot on a TrickScarf Cresselia? I was thinking Moonlight, but I don't know if that's the best choice.
  17. dragonite_

    dragonite_

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    17
    Priority would screw up heracross but i just thought that it might be good just to try something other than sala or chomp for battle hall obviously not.And also even though the end to my Uxie Empoleon Dragonite streak ended a while ago I thought I might tell you anyway. My first run ended at 61 after me being cocky because it was going pretty well and I didnt get set up properly and my second one ended at 54 to a CB dragonite who outraged after I tricked and I thought i could set up with empoleon but it killed me and then my dragonite.Could someone like Peterko who has used a trick with success tell me how they would deal with this same Dragonite because I don't see how I could beat it. Oh and btw can OHKO moves kill you even if you use endure?
  18. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,483
    cresselia should be using trick - thunder wave - flash - reflect

    dragonite, when dealing with a dragonite that uses outrage, you're facing dragonite2, meaning max attack (i'm in dp so i'll assume adamant for the worst case scenario).

    my cresselia takes 40-47%, meaning i can trick, thunder wave, and reflect. that should be enough to get something going and stop it.

    my tyranitar takes 26-31% under reflect, which isn't quite low enough. but i'm pretty confident i could handle it still.

    uxie takes the hit slightly worse assuming bold with max HP, no DEF, 46-55%. this could effectively take out uxie in 2 and then leave you hurting.
  19. Luminary

    Luminary

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    138
    I've heard that the type advantages and disadvantages of your Pokemon can affect your opponent's team. Where can I find out more about this? Is your lead Pokemon the only Pokemon with this capability? Is the whole of the opponent's team affected? Are there any more weird things like this?
  20. Tanner

    Tanner

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    41
    No, they cannot.
  21. Chinese Dood

    Chinese Dood

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,072
    Just a minor note. Uxie only needs/wants 148 Speed EVs to get a 134 speed stat (with scarf, that outspeeds +base 130s), so it can make use of some Def EVs. With 108 Def EVs, it takes 41.8% - 50% from Dragonite's outrage, which means fairly low chance of 2HKO.
  22. kingbattlus

    kingbattlus

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,483
    i forgot some of teh DP and Plat pokemon are different... facing a CB dragonite makes things much more complicated. you have to trick first to get its CB out of there, then swap to empoleon to refresh your moves, go back to uxie and probably reflect/paralyze it.

    the problem is that even with max HP and a modest nature for empoleon, you're still taking 33-39%... not enough to set up much. you'd have to pray for confusion and probably paralysis in there too to really get anything done. If you go reflect instead of thunder wave on uxie's second time facing it, empoleon takes 17-20%. you can set up on that but you only have a few turns before you jump back to the 33-39 range.

    i would try and rework your team a bit if you want a higher streak. you can probably keep trying and get to 100 but i wouldn't hold your breath going much higher than that as hax will find you. the tower will exploit the team eventually and odds are sooner rather than later.
  23. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,755
    I think I was "lucky" to never face CB Draggy with my CLS team when I was still using it in Plat...maybe I did face it once and I decided to Flash it and that let Latios get 2-3 CMs when compounded with the confusion chance after hitting my Subs. The worst part was not knowing which Draggy it was when used by a Dragon Tamer or Bird Keeper or Cyclist, but then again there's a reason I don't use that team anymore...

    Congratulations on all of your efforts and records—I'm happier to see that you had indeed not "quit" the Battle Tower/Frontier like we may have though you did. I'm most impressed with the Gyarados record, because that's not the easiest Doubles Hall pokemon on paper or in practice. If I ever start up again I may consider Leer on one Salamence just because of how useful it is.

    And I hope people read your Team A and Team B and Type ordering notes with the explanation of the "/" stuff, but I honestly don't think many people will get it after the first readthrough. This is what I enjoyed the most out of reading the writeup, because the Hall is 99% theorymon before you ever step into it.

    When I was Halling in up, I also noticed that not once did I face Machamp at all (pre- or post-170), which was weird but very welcome for me (especially because of my initial efforts with Tyranitar). I also don't think I ever faced Latias in Dragon—it was almost always Dragonite, with the occasional Altaria and Flygon...only once did I face Latios, and never Kingdra, Salamence or Garchomp when I did Dragon. I seemed to face Aerodactyl at least 40% of the time out of the 18 Rock pokemon, which sucked for Porygon-Z because I had to do Rock with Specs because of Tyranitar instead of Scarf Download (which gets the +SpA boost on like all the Rock Types, and a few times Aerodactyl used a faster Sandstream that rendered Specs HB unable to kill (and resulted in a loss two of those times, the other one he missed Stone Edge, surprise). Most of the time against Kingdra it use Stone Edge (to no avail because not even a CH would kill it) and I don't think it had ever used Sandstorm against Kingdra, but I digress.

    I'm a little surprised at the team you used for the Arcade—not at your record, but at the team. Most people seeing what you lost to now would realize how badly a lead Weavile will beat the team you decided to use especially since you couldn't use items, but most Ice- and Water-type pokes would be difficult for lead Garchomp to handle and almost impossible for the rest of your team to switch into. I know Blissey can Counter most physical moves like Waterfall and Aqua Tail even if they are boosted, but it doesn't seem to me that switching Blissey into such moves was your recipe for success. To be honest it just doesn't seem like too strong a team, so I'm wondering why you decided to use it (again, not wondering at the record).

    Finally, did you ever try singles Hall? I know you're a big fan of doubles and all but singles is quite a bit more challenging and I want to know if I was just unlucky to only have gotten to 243 with P-Z or if someone else with the smarts and dedication to Hall it up couldn't go much farther because of how difficult it was.
  24. EonADS

    EonADS

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    490
    On the usual TrickScarf setup with T-Wave, it doesn't really matter how fast you are because:

    If you're faster:
    Uxie used Trick
    Opponent used move
    Opponent used move
    Uxie used T-Wave

    If your opponent is faster:
    Opponent used move
    Uxie used Trick
    Opponent used move
    Uxie used T-Wave

    In short, your opponent will be able to get off two moves before they're hit with T-Wave and slowed down. This applies to every lead that uses this strategy. Also, with that Ev spread, iirc Modest Gengar has a chance to OHKO with Shadow Ball.
  25. Psy37

    Psy37

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    176
    No, it DOES matter.

    If your opponent is faster and uses a move before it gets the Scarf, then on turn 2 it can choose a different move. That can be troublesome. Also, don't forget that Uxie CAN get KOed or incapacitated by status, in which, if faster, you can still lock the opponent into one move. Understand?

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)