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Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    I died twice at battle 54 in the battle arcade. It seems like 54 is a very unlucky number for me...

    The first time I forgot exactly what happened, but I really misplayed and somehow got all of my Pokemon paralyzed by a T-wave Honchkrow, and Pluck critted everything.

    Played some of last night and today and worked back up to the second battle against Dahlia. I decided to stick Gengar in the lead, couldn't think of anything else. Shadow Ball / Tbolt / HP Ground / Explosion turned out to have good coverage, but its fragility led to a few close calls. Used Moltres to battle 49, it got the job done too though HP Grass can't stave off bulky waters forever.

    So finally got to battle 54, against an Abomasnow / Regice / Lapras. The event I got was fog, which didn't matter because Obama led. I exploded with Gengar and took out Obama, thinking that I could KO everything else with Hitmonchan. Regice vs Hitmonchan now. Regice survives CC with <5% HP and Ice Beams me into the red, but I survive to kill it the next turn and two turns of hail. Lapras comes out and...uses Ice Shard. Whoops. Latias is my last, and I got in a Dragon Pulse while it curses for ~30% damage. I prayed DMeteor would kill, but it doesn't even go into the red and avalanches me to death.

    I played pretty sloppily (I could've won had I used Mach Punch against Lapras, or switch in Hitmonchan against Obama and saved Gengar for later), but this situational shit really pissed me off. I did some damage calcs on-site, and the Regice had to be 252 Def to survive CC (edit;; looking it up and it's #930 Regice), and Lapras just happened to be a Careful/Sassy Cursing variant. I'm sacking Hitmonchan for Hitmonlee now because after this I need the extra power and speed, but it really brings my piss to a boil the game does that to you.

    Well, third time's the charm. Hopefulyl this time I worked out the kinks to my team.
  2. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Wow I wish I knew this thread was here. I love the Battle Factory and my record for Single Open level which is my favorite is I think 41 which is pretty good by looking at this, but I have no idea what my rentals were back when I got that record.
  3. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
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    Platinum Battle Tower Single Record: [SIZE=+1]646[/SIZE]


    [​IMG]

    Team: Cresselia, Salamence, Registeel

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUQ-hWYSTVk - Battle 647 video, with some clips showing how people around the world reacted to this loss...

    If I decided to write this post in three words, it would be:

    "F**k critical hits."

    I would consider this my magnum opus of Tower teams, since it's almost guaranteed to be my last time in these hax-infested halls.

    Last time, I lost at 314 to three consecutive critical hits... this time, I lost at 647 to three consecutive critical hits. However, unlike last time where the chance of that happening was 1 in 4096, this time it was worse because one of the crits came from the 70% accurate Focus Blast... so the chance was at least 1 in 5851.

    Double-edge crit = 6.25%

    Focus Blast hit = 70%, crit = 6.25%

    Blizzard crit = 6.25%

    = 0.00017089844% or 1 in 5851


    One of the only flaws in the awesome Smogon Damage Calculator is that you can't change the levels of pokes to get their correct stats... so does anyone know what the chance was of Cresselia being put into Hail-KO range from 166 HP after a CH Blizzard from Abomasnow3? I'm also wondering about how much damage its CH Focus Blast does to Registeel...

    Focus Blast seems to have 90-95% accuracy when used by AI opponents. If I had kept a tally of all the times it hit during my streak, I think that would be quite an accurate statement.

    [​IMG]
    1. Cresselia ~ Aether
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP, 230 Speed, 28 Defense
    IVs: 31-x-31-27-31-31
    Level 50 Stats: 227-73-158-93-150-134
    - Trick
    - Thunder Wave
    - Flash
    - Light Screen

    *I chose Cresselia since she takes hits like no other Trick lead can... for example, some Water-type used Hydro Pump twice; a critical hit and a normal hit, yet she still lived... with 1 HP.
    *Unlike Jumpman who maximised the Speed EVs, I made mine just outspeed positive base-130s... Electrode says 'hi' and I say 'lol' in response... and Ninjask is only used by lol trainers.
    *I discovered how useful Flash is - Jumpman, I have seen the light... the light, it is blindingly bright...
    *Mine has Light Screen - look everyone, it's not exactly the same as Jumpman's set! I thought it would be nice to achieve something with a variation of a popular set, and I did not regret this - due to Salamence's Intimidate, powerful physical moves don't cause many worries. Light Screen made many things a lot easier to set up on... eg. Surf, Hydro Pump, Magma Storm, Thunder...
    *There were only 2 (that I remember) battles in the entire streak in which Cresselia was slain by a single hit from a non-OHKO move... and both times were to critical hits - Absol's CH Night Slash and Gengar's CH Shadow Ball.

    [​IMG]
    2. Salamence ~ Dargon **shiny**
    Item: Lum Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Sp. Def
    IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31
    Level 50 Stats: 170-205-100-117-101-152
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance
    - Substitute

    *Going from Sand Veil to Intimidate is like going from public transport to a private jet... in other words, a fairly significant improvement.
    *I didn't think Salamence had so much potential until Bozo started using it and got a big streak... so that inspired me. As a bonus, its shiny form is GREEN.
    *I thought Dragon Dance would suck after being used to Swords Dance, but the Speed boosts are very useful indeed... Weavile vs. Garchomp never goes down too well.
    *Several Steel-types die to +6 Outrage... including Bronzong.
    *Damn it feels good to have hex-flawless IVs... especially when the RNG abuse only required a male x/31/x/x/x/31 Dragon Dance Bagon and a x/x/x/31/x/x Ditto.
    *Name origin: Many years ago I had a T-shirt which had 'Beware the Dargon's Lair' printed on it, with a picture of a green dragon. It's pretty rare to see a typo on clothing, so that stuck in my mind...

    [​IMG]
    3. Registeel ~ HardNess
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP, 140 Defense, 100 Attack, 16 Sp. Defense
    IVs: 31-31-31-x-30-31
    Level 50 Stats: 187-108-188-79-189-70
    - Iron Head
    - Substitute
    - Curse
    - Amnesia

    *I can't remember how many times I've sworn and smashed my head on something after dying to a critical hit while not Subbed... in that situation, Salamence has to take his place.
    *Same old Registeel... he's invincible (conditions apply: Invincibility does not include critical hits)
    *Always enjoys fighting Heatran, Lanturn and Magnezone... especially Psych Up Magnezone... which reminds me of the discussion about switching out since Psych Up would then copy Salamence/Garchomp/whatever's neutral stats, and allow for an easy kill with EQ - I only just realised that this will fail against the 50% of Magnezone with Magnet Pull... so I was lucky with the 2 times I switched out.
    *Note to a certain person Bozo knows: The above statement contained an instance of sarcasm...


    Anyway, the fateful battle numbered 647 was against (Ice) Ace Trainer Lew so it should've been a piece of cake due to Registeel's general awesomeness against Ice-types, but sadly a critical hit from Mamoswine's Tricked Double-edge broke the Sub on the turn that I finally attacked after setting up... shouldn't have mattered too much, and I was temporarily relieved upon seeing that the next poke was Abomasnow. Apart from the annoying permanent hail, of course. It just happened to be the Focus Blast one:

    678, Abomasnow 3, Quiet, Occa Berry, 197, 112, 95, 158, 105, 72, Energy Ball, Blizzard, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, HP/Sp.Attk

    So I chose Sub, but Focus Blast hit as it always does when used by an AI poke. But this hit was critical, so Registeel's remaining 150 HP was all gone. It would be stupid to send out Salamence at this point so I chose Cresselia... here's the defining moment: I used Light Screen... now, my intention was to reduce the inevitable Blizzard's damage so that I would have extra turns to Thunder Wave and then Flash... which would actually help after all 5 Blizzards were gone, due to its flawless accuracy in Hail, as it would make its other moves probably miss, allowing for a Dragon Dance or two. But sadly, a critical hit broke through the Light Screen - oh, but Cresselia is so awesome that she survived... with 10 HP (from 166 after the initial Double-edge). How convenient that Abomasnow's ability is Snow Warning... Hail struck my lead - what an epic fail. And the rest, as they say, is history... in other words, Salamence was basically screwed since Blizzard was guaranteed to hit each time, and Outrage would only have won me the battle if it had been a crit on both Abomasnow and the Articuno revealed by the Vs. Recorder. I stupidly forgot about the 100% accuracy in Hail, so I tried Sub and eventually Dragon Dance, lol. Not that it matters, because we all know that only the Tower's trainers get critical hits when they need them.

    It's easy to find mistakes in hindsight, but I really wasn't preparing for a 3rd critical hit and I also didn't think of the consequences of that possibility, i.e. not being able to stall out the remaining Blizzards. Of course I only thought of a wiser move after I lost: Thunder Wave. That way I could keep Subbing with Salamence until the occurrence of full paralysis... the chance of that is reasonable enough to rely on in these rare cases of being on the verge of death. Lesson learned, but for what good? There's no way I'm spending another 37 hours just to equal my record... I'm retired from the Tower (hint: that doesn't mean the Frontier entirely... but I really need to spend time preparing my Pokemans for a real-life tournament in July) for the rest of the D/P/Pt era, which clearly isn't going to be too much longer, for Japan at least... I hope the 5th-gen has a good Frontier and doesn't introduce new, stupid hax items and moves. Oh wait, of course it will. It's Pokemon, after all.

    The 37 hours is an approximation based on the following calculations:

    646 - 49 = 597

    597 battles / 7 = 85 sets

    85 sets x 25 = 2125 minutes

    2125 / 60 = 35 hours + 2 (first 49 battles)

    = 37 hours wasted

    @Peterko: Thanks for the latest update to the Frontier pokes list... although I only got to use it for a day before losing, I think it's very useful how you combined it with the Trainer list.

    Lol, I should post my team there just for fun! I'm pretty much inactive at that site but I couldn't resist posting in Terry's thread.

    ... nice 100th post, right?
  4. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
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    congrats D on the cool record (wow I never noticed the missing . sorry, I´ll fix that in the next update)

    I can´t comment much on how you lost (have not watched the video yet), other than ice trainers are a pain in general, even if you use a registeel, if only because "was frozen solid" happens, also because aboma kills your only recovery in leftovers :( and activates snow hide tsk

    Yeah I´m supposed to be the police here, haha one poké day off (actually I didn´t play for 2 days) and someone tries some bullshit... I knew that the prev. number jumped to zero when I SRed during a streak, but I wasn´t sure about the actual record number...so I would´ve tested (rechecked) it in-game and posted afterwards to not accuse without proof

    I think prev. 1001 & record 1001 is possible if you lose battle 1002...but he/she didn´t post a warstory so it´s obviously fake (I won´t even get to the team as I´d repeat what´s been said already, no sub, not even sash ... ... ...)

    yeah like here http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2185986&postcount=1043

    the reason I didn´t check is because the olympic games really screw up my sleeping habits...I came home from work at around 5PM on wednesday, ate, went to bed and tried to sleep...didn´t work that well, anyway, I watched CAN-RUS (started at 1:30 AM on thursday), FIN-CZE (started at 4 AM) and of course, Slovakia vs Sweden (started at 6 AM) – for those not familiar with sports, those were 3 of the 4 quarterfinals in the ice hockey olympic tourney ...then of course I had to work all day, so I rested yesterday evening

    Slovakia vs Canada 3:30 AM tomorrow morning, yay!

    to not be too much off topic, I lost at battle #148 on monday (didn´t pay attention and clicked the wrong move against solrock lol that almost OHKOed but didn´t, while the correct one always 1HKOs ._.) and lost against argenta at battle #170 on tuesday - she sort of countered me by using a poké that my second moveset is supposed to take care of, scizor...I still had a shot at winning but scizor was technician and the increased bullet punch power was juust enough to finish me off

    one type (ten battles) takes around 10 minutes, the argenta one around 11, so around 3 hrs to get to 170, that´s relatively good...above 4 hours to get a nice streak compared to the 140 hours or more that I needed to get to 2363 in the tower ._.


    EDIT 2:
    158 sA (IIRC) aboma blizzard vs your 150 sD cresse

    a CH does 144-171 damage according to my quick calc (I hope I remembered the position of CH in the dmg forrmula correctly)

    158 sA aboma focus blast vs 189 sD steel

    a CH does 156-184 damage


    EDIT 3:
    this

    a general rule in the tower, it´s impossible for me to count how many times this has happened...so basically I try to let it kill itself and sub last turn whenever possible

    nobody´s perfect and I, at times, found myself still attacking and being open afterwards because the "last hit before fainting being a CH" rule applied and got away with it (the reason is you don´t want the battles to take longer than needed)...so the other two were unlucky, yep, but losing the sub to DE is kind of a mistake on your side (don´t hate me for this) that cost you this game in the end

    not the worst mistake one can make, but ice trainers are (!) in my book, a threat and you risked being open not to a focus blast CH (which sucks), but to sheer colds from pokémon that obviously 1HKO your last team member

    CHs suck...glares at drapion laughing its purple ass off
  5. Grissom

    Grissom

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    thanks Bozo! playing doubles is fun, you should try it, it's much more faster than playing singles

    congrats on the record DrDimentio, i just watched your video, sorry about the hax :(
    i love your trainer's quote btw lol
  6. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
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    Thanks for that.

    Oh okay... so I did have a chance to survive the Hail... that sucks. I hate random damage numbers. It's reassuring to know that Registeel was guaranteed to die from the FB CH. Does a CH multiply damage exactly by 2 (ignoring defense or lowered attack obviously) or is that also randomised to some extent?

    Yeah I know, all my losses have been because of a fault in me or my team. With Uxie/Scizor/Garchomp it was the non-flawless IVs among other things, with Uxie/Registeel/Garchomp it was the bad HP number on Garchomp, with Togekiss/Registeel/Garchomp it was... Gliscor's threatening presence. And this time, it was laziness as I didn't feel like checking how much PP Double-edge has (I generally only remember the PP of moves I would actually use at some point) and so I didn't take the safe option of choosing Sub until it died. I guess I underestimated the threat of Ice trainers due to Registeel's typing... naturally the trainer had one of the few pokes with a super-effective move. I suppose Ice trainers are quite dangerous due to all the Sheer Colds and stuff like Lapras, Dewgong, Walrein...

    I probably shouldn't play on really hot days (I was exhausted on both the days of the 314 and 647 losses) since they make me lazy and probably less aware of threats. See, you people in Slovakia and stuff have an advantage...

    *insert statement about how it's ironic that I lost to an Ice team partially due to heat exhaustion*

    Okay, so I'm guessing you (Peterko) got your high streak by following that rule of waiting until they die? I should've known earlier... too late now.

    In conclusion, my two best streaks have ended to triple-CHs... perhaps this is the Tower's way of encouraging me to use that Drapion I trained a while ago... well, there's always HG to trade it to. But if the Tower is an exact copy in that game, I don't think I'll bother.

    ... man, my video actually looks good on YouTube for once. And I didn't even upload in HD...

    Oh yeah, just thought I'd mention that Bozo has probably beaten my record by now. Don't be surprised if he says that soon...

    EDIT:

    Much appreciated. Thanks for also watching the video... sadly, hax in the Frontier strikes when you are most vulnerable to it. Lol, I spent a long time playing with the trainer quotes. But the best one ever is Jumpman's which I saw when I saved one of his loss videos last year:

    "Yay, HERE I COME!
    SWALLOW!"

    I wonder how long he spent figuring out how to say something obscene with the provided words...
  7. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    for completion´s sake

    mamo4 200 atk DE vs 158 def cresse

    57-68 damage (cresse at 159-170 HP)

    CH blizzard does 144-171 damage

    hail does 14 damage

    min DE damage + min CH bliz. damage + hail damage = 57 + 144 + 14 (cresselia lives with 15 HP)
    max DE damage + min CH bliz. damage = 68 + 158 (cresselia faints)

    actually what he needed was minimum DE damage followed by at least rand. 92/100 CH blizzard damage plus hail...you had a really low chance to survive here

    by the way, 136 speed lets you outspeed metagross (nobody cares about trode)...no problems with meta with your team? a CH among the first two MMs and cresse faints before t-waving according to my calc...it 2hits salamence and steel doesn´t like to set up against MM in general, worse if it is outsped even before the first curse (lol yeah I know my latias has a chance to die to the first turn MM CH)
  8. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Nicely done :) I was wondering when you would post this. I feel for you on the CritHax, the Pokemon I'm using in Registeel's place just dies from them.

    I should have my own record post for 237 up sometime either today or tomorrow. Look forward to that.
  9. Bozo

    Bozo

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    well, first congrats on that huge number!

    secondly, what a shameful way to kick someone out of the battle tower :( really its ridiculous to lose twice in a row to 3x crits. and it wasnt "just" 3 consecutive crits, but ones that actually matter. eg who cares if that flareon gets 10 consecutive crits with bite against registeel.

    i love the team - light screen plus intimidate is an intriguing idea. and naturally i think that salamence is a really great member of such a team.

    my opinion is still that charm is the more useful more in most situations - the strongest special move steel usually has to deal with is STAB blizzard, and that only has 5 pp (even if he gets frozen, mence can set up a couple of DD's on struggle typically). he generally has far more problems with STAB outrage, megahorn, and this can be difficult even with a charm if there is a crit or 2.

    well, i won't say too much more, except:

    1. that while watching your video i was thinking "how could this go wrong?" as registeel was setting up.
    2. i too usually just attack rather than stalling 7 moves - if they use a strong(ish) 10pp move i usually do stall out the last couple of struggles. maybe i should be more careful, especially in situational circumstances (eg against an ice trainer which might have some sheer cold pokes). sorry if i learn from your demise :(
    3. i was thinking of trying to make a video of all the moments they get a crit on either (a) the turn i attack, or (b) the turn before i sub. it happens too much.
    but finally, congrats again - that is a great streak.

    ice trainers are indeed annoying, but i dont find abomasnow too much of a terrible lead, not as much as i had anticipated at least. steel usually gets set up and prepares to face the rest at about 70-80ish hp. if he gets frozen or something, he can generally stall out the ice moves and let salamence set up a couple of DD's. since there are no ice/steel types, he will never have to worry about outrage being resisted. a +2 outrage can OHKO virtually anything.

    of course prev+best 1001 is possible. but the poster said it was caused by the game bouncing out, so it is obviously a lie.
  10. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Here it comes, new record post

    Platnium Battle Tower Singles Streak: 237

    [​IMG]
    Latias@Choice Scarf ** (Senzai)
    Bold
    EVs: 252 Hp / 216 Def / 4 Sp.Def / 36 Spe
    IVs: 31/17/31/31/31/31
    ~Levitate~
    -Trick
    -Thunder Wave
    -Charm
    -Flash


    Latias is, and probably will always be, my favorite TrickScarfer(I've used it on four teams so far). I've done some Speed investment to prevent some of those annoying fast taunters from stopping me. With Latias, the high targets are fairly easy to reach. An investment of just 28 Speed Ev's gives me enough speed to outrun +Natured Base 130's with the Scarf attached. After I had Tricked the Scarf, I wanted to outrun +Natured Base 70's like Metagross and neutral Natured Base 80's like Blaziken, so I upped the Speed Ev count to 36. As for the small Special Defense investment, it ensures that Porygon2 and Porygon-Z will always get an Attack boost from Download. Moveset should be self-explanatory.

    [​IMG]
    [Shiny]Lucario@Leftovers ** (Garou)
    Modest
    EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Sp.Atk / 4 Sp.Def
    IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
    ~Steadfast~
    -Substitute
    -Iron Defense
    -Calm Mind
    -Flash Cannon

    Basically just a specially oriented version of Registeel Lite. I didn't use Lucario to "be different", but because I thought that his greater speed and power, along with almost complete resistance to Signal Beams, would be extremely helpful, and I was right. At +6 with max Special Attack, he at least 2HKO's everything but Heatran, Empoleon, and Magnezone. Steadfast over Inner Focus b/c it's generally better to benefit from Flinch Hax rather than ignore it.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite@Lum Berry ** (Ryuujin)
    Adamant
    EVs: 20 Hp / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    ~Inner Focus~
    -Outrage
    -Substitute
    -Dragon Dance
    -Earthquake

    Bulky DDNite. Set up so that he resists all of Lucario's weaknesses. This time, I was trying to be different, so sue me. Moveset and item are standard. As for the EVs, even at Max Speed Adamant, Dragonite won't be able to outpace Base 130's after one DD, so instead I aimed for outspeeding Weavile and other Base 125's, which only requires 236 Ev's.

    Battle 238 Warstory: Not much of a warstory. The French Gliscor was the lead in my battle. I didn't Trick, I used Flash. Stupid move on my part, I got so freaked out by the one Pokemon that could rape my entire team with no saving grace I forgot that Accuracy drops don't affect OHKO moves. Basically just a straight 3 Gillotene sweep.

    Threats: Other than the usual BS in the form of lead OHKO users, 948 Heatran was a problem for my team. Even at +6, Lucario is almost 2HKO'ed by Magma Storm, and Explosion broke Dragonite's sub, leaving him defenseless when 937 Articuno w/Sheer Cold popped out. That was a bit of a harrowing ordeal.

    I'll see if I can't get a picture, but again, my camera and hardware are crap, so it could be a while :/
  11. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    There was no point in using Flash as OHKO moves ignore accuracy/evasion modifiers.
  12. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^My god, how could I forget that? Oh well, nothing else I could have done would have helped me anyway.
  13. Slyguy46

    Slyguy46

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    ^It doesn't really matter, though, because it hit 3 times in a row anyway, all it would've done is make Gliscor faster.
  14. Bozo

    Bozo

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    nice write up, and interesting idea to use lucario in that way. i wonder about the long-term prospects of it since, as you say, it has far more problems with heatran. although, have you worked out the maximum number of turns heatran can survive?

    nice touch going with steadfast - that'd be great against things like flareon who often uses bit - does lol damage and ups your speed. i would have loved that in my most recent saved (but probably never to be uploaded) match, in which i was flinched about 7-8 times in a row with bite (way more unlikely than peterko's demise).

    the odds of 3 consecutive OHKO's are 0.3*0.3*0.3 = 2.7% or roughly 1/37, so not all that "unlikely". like your team, mine doesnt have anything specifically helpful to go up against that gliscor, so i just trick - at least latias gets the sash and so has a chance to waste at least 2 guillotines. if it dies, your backups only need it to miss once to get a sub, and then spam sub until it runs out of pp. of course your helpless if it just hits you every single time, but what else can you do...... i dont think i'll start using a jolly salamence any time soon - i like it too much that outrage has like a 99% chance of OHKO'ing every metagross at +6.

    i like your dragonite - not much more to say there, although salamence is about as bulky when it comes out against physical attackers. still, if i ever went back to do a d/p moves only run in diamond (and i never will), i would probably think seriously about using dragonite since it can legally have dragon dance + outrage.

    so, are you going to challenge it again??
  15. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

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    Thanks for the completion of that... well yes, very low chance but I was just mentioning that there was the possibility of survival.

    I had 2 or 3 encounters with lead Metagross4. They were all easy... and considering the various times when Cresselia survived certain combinations of attacks with less than 5 HP left, I think every point of Def/SpD was important. Would it be at all useful to Thunder Wave it first? I don't find it hard to set up Registeel even with a few Attack boosts, but I guess I haven't had as much Meta-hax as you.

    Thanks... yeah, CritHax is the worst type of hax IMO, since it ignores all your hard-earned stat boosts.

    Thanks for the congrats, although it hardly seems huge to me (glares up at Peterko and Jumpman)... by my standards though, it's somewhat large.

    The Frontier has no sense of shame... it will do whatever it can to ruin even the best of teams! Because it has to hide the fact that it's weak. I've certainly had more crit-hax than most people. I know, they always get them when they actually need them, i.e. with Earthquake or Flamethrower, etc.

    I'm glad you like it... at first I tried out Reflect but I soon realised how much more use Light Screen had due to Intimidate. Plus it helped me do cool things such as: Tricking Whiscash into Hydro Pump then Light Screening and Flashing a lot (Cresselia loves to flash) to avoid most of the HPs, then Re-tricking to Blizzard, switching to Steel to stall remaining PP with Sub + Amnesia, then back to Cresselia to re-Trick to either Fissure or Earth Power so Salamence gets a free set-up. Of course, it requires a bit of luck but it's more useful than half setting up Registeel against a Hiker. And it was thanks to you that I tried out Salamence - I loved him right from the start. I thought I'd sorely miss STAB on EQ but it didn't matter too much.

    That's more the case for Latias due to her typing - Cresselia draws less Ice attacks and also many Ice-types use moves other than Blizzard (such as Signal Beam). I actually never had any problems with those moves you mentioned. I often found it useful to sacrifice Cresselia against things like STAB Megahorn to get a safe Intimidate before switching to Steel for an easier set-up.

    Exactly what I was thinking during the battle... if I'd known that Double-edge had only 15 PP, I'd have Subbed until Mamo died. I know the PP of almost every other common move, so that sucks...
    If you learn from my fatal mistake, I hope you apply that knowledge well and avenge me!
    Good luck making that video less than an hour long... there must be a huge number of them.
    Well, I'm sure you'll achieve a greater streak... have you gone past 646 yet?
  16. EonADS

    EonADS

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    490
    Yeah, it really is different, but since when have I done things the conventional way?

    Yeah, 906 Heatran has a 26.3% possibility of being 4HKO'ed by Flash Cannon. All the others are comfortably in 3HKO range.

    Yeah, it's great against Bite users. 7-8 in a row? Yikes.

    Ah, wow, I screwed that up. Thanks.

    So if I see a Gliscor, Trick it? Alright. Guess I wasn't thinking.

    Makes sense. That thing seems like it was designed to end people's streaks.

    Yeah, not much can stand in the way of Outrage at +6. Dragonite has an assured OHKO on Metagross at +6, his slightly greater stats, except Speed, really make up for his lack of Intimidate.

    Sounds like that might be a good move.

    Probably not, I might go back with my "improvement" team and try again, but I'm lazy like that :P
  17. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,837
    that just had to be quoted.

    yeah - pretty much what i'd do (with outrage also). thats one huge benefit of having salamence in your team over garchomp.

    i PM'd you about that already, but here's the video of my gastrodon battle - you can see where i was up to at that point anyway.

    oh ok, while the heatran always 2HKO's you? so you'd have to hope you have a sub up when he comes in, hit him before he breaks it, hit him as he hits you (hope its not a crit), then finish him next turn. much more risky than with registeel, but i guess it's always risky.

    well, i've convinced myself that it's about all you can do - if your back up sweeper was faster then you could just charm it (even if it did nothing). but tricking means if it misses the first guillotine against your sweeper (which it will have to for you to have any chance of winning), it will at least be locked in that and therefore allow you to get some kind of set-up once you've wasted its PP.

    from my calculations with salamence, the minimum damage it could do to each metagross is always 1hp below metagross's full hp - so with a minimum damage roll, it could survive. since dragonite has base 134 attack (compared to salamence's 135) i guess it would have a slightly better chance of surviving against dragonite. apart from that though, dragonite's bulk would be welcome on salamence - maybe not as a trade off for its speed, but certainly for its non-used special attack stat.
  18. CBshuckle

    CBshuckle

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    285
    After numerous failed attempts at the doubles hall and doubles castle, I have decided to try once more the doubles tower with my rain team. I'm not making any major changes except slightly altering Ludicolo's EV spread. I originally planned to not use it again but after falling from #2 to #4 so quickly and losing when I really didn't need to, I think one more go is in order. Wish me luck (or not if you're eppie or Grissom)!
  19. DrDimentio

    DrDimentio

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    173
    I must say I haven't had too much trouble with the 2 or so Sticky Hold lead Gastrodons I encountered in my 646 streak... lucky me???


    Same with me - I actually encountered at least 4 lead Gliscors in my streak, and Tricked every time (Flash vs. Guillotine is useless after all...). Only once was it French Gliscor, and much to my relief it used Counter.

    I see you've gone past 700 now, Bozo... well, that makes me sick! No, not at you... at the Tower. Please, for my sake as much as yours, get to 1000. That will be sufficient vengeance for me. Only 2 things really stand in your way... hax, and mistakes by the player (like forgetting how much PP Double-edge has >_>).
  20. Gonzaa

    Gonzaa

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    Hey! I had a 150 streak. If you need it, i could post a picture or something :P

    Tomorrow i will post a pic and an explanation of the team. I am thinking about a totally new trick lead! (and maybe another setuper)

    Oh, and congratulations to Dr Dimentio and Bozo for your streaks (well, Bozo's isn't finished :O)
  21. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,837
    indeed! although i really wish they would use sludge bomb > surf against latias - it's so logical. if so, it would be a piece of cake. with this one my first problem was that i didnt know which one it was, and ended up having to switch registeel in on a surf as he'd used up more pp of ice beam than earth power.


    ive had him about 5 times this streak. and every single time i've faced him up til now he has always used guillotine (apart from the last time where he used u-turn and led to some interesting fighting - i think i taped that one, i certainly recorded it on the vs recorder but might have recorded over it). the scariest was when it killed latias with its first two guillotines, and i thought a peterko situation was on the cards.

    lol i will try! and yeah, i'm more worried about the human error part, as my two big castle streaks ended that way. i'm getting a bit tired of this streak which is not a good sign...... i have a printout of the move PP's so when i face something new (havent for a long time) i generally check it. i really wish trick room had more than 5 pp.....

    at least that is one thing that maks DrD's streak better than mine - right peterko? lol, i'll let that rest now......
  22. christopher_ 1942

    christopher_ 1942

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    195
    Hello everyone. It's me again. This time I'm gonna tell you about my Battle Hall record and how I lost. The Pokemon I used that people here haven't used before is my trusty Tauros. Nicknamed "Bull's Eye". This was the Pokemon that gave us the Gold Print. *sniff* So proud of him...

    Nature: Adamant
    EV's: 252 Atk/252 Spe
    Held Item: Choice Band/Choice Scarf
    Ability: Intimidate
    Return
    Earthquake
    Outrage
    Stone Edge

    Tauros's moveset should get through all of the Pokemon types easily. However, this Pokemon can get outsped by some opponents like Latias, Gengar and even Infernape. That's why I pick Choice Scarf on the Pokemon as well just so it's faster.

    Choice Band ia also used for more chances of a OHKO depending on the stats of both players.

    The closest battle my Tauros had was up against this:

    H438 | Regirock | Brave | Sitrus Berry | Stone Edge | AncientPower | Giga Impact | Thunder Wave

    I'm impressed on how Tauros won against Regirock.

    So, the battle began. The Intimidate did not work because of Regirock's Clear Body.

    Turn #1:

    Tauros uses Earthquake holding Choice Band.

    Does over half on Regirock. Sitrus Berry activates.

    Regirock uses Thunder Wave. Tauros now paralyzed.

    Turn #2:

    Regirock uses Stone Edge. Missed!

    Tauros was fully paralyzed. Miss.

    Turn #3:

    Regirock hits Tauros with Stone Edge. Critical hit though! I thought Tauros was gonna faint. But then Tauros lived at 4HP! Phew! Too close.

    Tauros gets through the paralyzed and hits Regirock with Earthquake once more and it faints. That was too close. If that paralyze happened again, I had to start the streak all over again.

    So, that's my closest battle. Now I'm gonna tell you how I've lost....my Tauros lost from the counter critical against this:

    H344 | Armaldo | Adamant | Razor Claw | X-Scissor | Stone Edge | Aqua Tail | Aerial Ace |

    That dredded Armaldo critical hitted my Tauros with a Stone Edge, OHKOing it! I was so ticked off when that happened. Although I did hit it and put it on half with a Choice Band Outrage. But luck wasn't on my side against Armaldo. I would have picked Stone Edge but I don't want it to miss.

    So, yeah. That's me and Tauros's record, 170. I'm glad we got the Gold Print from Argenta and her Heatran. Now all I have to get is the Gold Print from Thorton, which is gonna take a long time I can tell you.

    I hope you all were convinced about my Tauros's record. I did enjoy the Battle Hall by the way. You can get alot of BP from it.
  23. Someguymr

    Someguymr

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5
    B.S LUCK!!! (Grrr) 111 wins.

    I started to play the battle tower again, and I got 111, because of luck hax (I lost to luck hax meaning). Heres my new team:

    Azurmarill-Adamant,252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Speed, Huge Power (A MUST HAVE ABILITY), C-Band
    Waterfall
    Aqua Jet
    Superpower
    Ice Punch

    I have no idea why, but I picked a random pokemon, this is it. I chose Azumarill because he is pretty bulky once you dump HP Evs. Examples are, that it can survive 130 Base Attackers which have 150 Base power moves and it will die in 2 hits. (Ursirang's Thunderpunch, Return, Garchomp's Earthquake) Also, his Aqua Jet is just amazing, as well as his other attacks. Waterfall-obviously a good move, Super Power over Double Edge for many reasons. I already have a counter against bulky waters such as Milotic and Slowbro, this also smashes Registeel and other pokemon that resist Water/Ice. Ice Punch for Grass/Dragons. He is great for letting the next pokemon to switch in on
    Shedinja-Adamant, 255 Attack, 255 Speed Focus Sash
    Sword Dance
    X-Scissor
    Shadow Sneak
    Will-O-Wisp

    This is why you dont need Double Edge, this guy will block those bulky water attacks, however some bulky waters he won't block (E.G 860 Vaporeon (never appeared though), and others). Word of advice when your using this, expect the obvious >_< (i will explain later...) Anyways, Sword Dance is 2+ as usually, X-Scissor for not bad power, Shadow Sneak for priority, I think its important. Will-O-Wisp causes burn conditions, so next time Azumarill switches in, the physical attackers won't cause as much damage. This kills Psychic pokemon really easily but won't KO all of them with Shadow Sneak, so use X-Scissor from time to time. All the Latias won't be KO by Shadow Sneak is the only thing I found. (which cause my loss)

    Electivire: Adamant, 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP, Life Orb
    Thunder Punch
    Ice Punch
    Earthquake
    Cross Chop

    My Lightning absorber I used on my other team. It does not need absorb lightning but when you come across something like Jolten, Magnezone, other Electivire while using Azumarill, this thing came in handy so i reused it, obvious what the moves do, but if you dont understand, Thunder Punch-his strongest move, Ice Punch-Dragons/Grounds, Earthquake-Opposing Electric, Cross Chop-You know. Although Cross Chop has not missed for me yet and even if it does I have my 2 handy revenge killers (Aqua Jet, Shadow Sneak), you can replace it with fire punch if you want.

    How to use: 1-21 should be straight forward, pure attacking and using those priority moves. At Palmer, when he has Dragonite first, switch to Electivire (He will Thunder Wave,) Take the boost, Ice Punch (or use Azumarill's Ice Punch), he might dragon claw, your electivire should survive with a neutral boosting defense nature, he'll Rhyperior, switch to Shedinja to block Earthquake, while giving him a Will-O-Wisp (if this misses thats ok but if it hits, good for you,) The Sash protects him, switch back to Azumarill, his crunch will be weakened. Finish him off with that STAB Waterfall/Aqua Jet. Finally, his Milotic for last, switch back to Shedinja, he has no moves to hurt you with, and end that Milotic, Rhyperior Lead-Azurmarill of course, Waterfall him, (if he survives, go to Shedinja and hit a Will-O-Wisp so his Focus is rendered useless, dragonite, switch to Electivire, he'll aerial ace, ice punch. Milotic-Switch to Shedinja, switch back to electivire (AI switches since he can't do anything with Milotic) he'll Dragonite, Ice Punch, switch to shedinja when he earthquakes, back to azumarill, aqua jet, sweep

    21-49-Heres when you will need to keep doing repeated switches. Depending on what pokemon you will need to switch to gain immunity to hits. Example: Theres Slowbro lead, Azumarill is not touching it, switch to Shedinja, block his hit (the special sweeping Slowbros aren't at this stage so don't worry about Shadow Ball or Flamethrower) He'll switch out, use either Sword Dance or Will-O-Wisp on the next switch in. Heres what i meant earlier about expect the obvious, (which explains how i lost on 111, well i'll tell you how i lost.)
    My Oppenent had Registeel 903, I Super Power, he Thunder Waved, hes at about 1-3hp. I then switch to Shedinja his thunderbolt fails, forcing him to switch to Heatran 920, where i Shadow Sneaked, and he broke my Sash with Stone Edge, i swap to Electivire, Stone Edged, Quick Clawed (Damn quick claws..) Electivire at low hp, Earthquakes (Life Orb kills him.) Next swapped to Azumarill once again, Swap back to Shedijna again, he swaps to Latias, and heres where i could have avoided losing... I used Sword Dance thinking I would KO Latias with 2+ Shadow Sneak, it failed... I should have X-Scissored... it dies (Sash Broke in Stone Edge) Wow, Aqua Jet revenge KO, registeel having 1-3hp.. Can't believe it... I LOSE!!!, Wow, "Azumarill is paralyzed can't move" I was so confident that Azumarill would not die from a Registeel Thunderbolt,... WOW IT DIED. lost 145HP, "A CRITICAL HIT!" There goes my streak, so 3 things i could have done to avoid losing, X-Scissor instead of Sword Dance... or prepared a counter against that Heatran (like i did with Milotic, swap with Shedinja, swap back to Azumarill). EXPERT BELT OVER LIFE ORB... (but lacks raw power to be honest -.-)
    Anyways continuing on, 21-49 was easy, lost once to hax lol.
    Palmer 2: Heatran Lead- Use Aqua Jet 2 times, gone, he switches Cressila, swap to Shedinja (immunity), he swaps to Regigagas, switch to Azumarill, super power KO, swap to Shedinja, gamed, Regigigas lead-Super Power, swap to Shedinja (Cressilia comes in) swap to Electivire, earthquake (he earth powers KO, revenge to Azumarill), for Cressilia lead, pretty obvious.. -.- (Swap to Shedinja, then swap to Azumarill, 2 aqua jets, swap to shedijna after Cresslia's in, swap back to Azumarill, Super Power, gamed next few turns.
    49-105, Same tactic as before (Swap, and attack/burn) and at 105-111, at 111 you know how i lost, double hax, Parahax/CH....
  24. Gonzaa

    Gonzaa

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    Ok, here is my 150 wins team:

    Latios@Choice Scarf
    252 HP/252 Speed/4 X

    Trick
    Flash
    Thunder Wave
    Memento

    Registeel@Leftovers
    252 HP/100 Atk/146 Def/12 Sdef

    Substitute
    Amnesia
    Curse
    Iron Head

    Garchomp@Focus Sash
    6 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed

    Swords Dance
    Earthquake
    Fire Fang
    Outrage
    ___________________
    I won't write a warstory about my lose because.. i totally misplayed. I didn't know how many PP's Head Smash had and didn't Swords Danced when i had to..

    Here is the pic:

    http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z147/Dark_Mage_01/recordBTtotodile.jpg

    The Totodile is the TCG coin for the Heart Gold & Soul Silver releases <3

    Edit: I just put the link because the image is very big :/
    Edit 2: If anyone cares: 95-10978-53385
    ____________________
    Now i'm working on a trick lead that no one had used before >=) (Maybe because it's a weaker Latias lol)
  25. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,774
    It's close, but I honestly think this has much more to do with you having EQ on Salamence instead of Roost or Rest. You did notice that you were only able to get Salamence to +4 because you were afraid of Crabhammer CHing—a fear allayed by Flash and not Charm, btw. But if you had Roost over Earthquake, you have been able to get up to 100% HP and then also get up to +6...I'm sure you realize that you CHing Bronzong was worse hax than it QCing your Sub since you almost never kill with +4 Outrage. I'm glad you were able to get out of the mess but I never saw the utility of Earthquake over Roost and that's what this battled outlined more to me than Recover vs. Flash.

    As I said there it was a great video, and congrats on the streak. 720p looks really good...

    That's actually a silver lining in the strategy that I didn't foresee when I thought of it. I guess enough things resist Steel that you can be comfortable employing this strategy for two different long-term results and not just one...it's also good to know that you can trick the AI into doing that "switch if you used an attack, it didn't KO and they have a pokemon that resists or is immune to that attack" even when the target pokemon is resistant to it. Probably won't happen too much against Ruin Maniacs since they also use Rock pokemon but oh well.

    yeah it blew but at the very least i knew why it happened (threw my DS one too many times lol)

    You actually can...in the Options button you can set level. You can actually default Level to 50 in the Preferences section as well.

    This was pointed out by someone else, but the main reason Cresselia is near-max speed (136 of 137) is because 136 allows it to outpace Metagross after the Trick, which is crucial for reasons we all know by now. For you, especially with Light Screen over Reflect, it would suck to get hacked...we both would TW on turn 2 but Metagross can CH you either turn and be a total pest from there on out (Peterko's experience with Registeel vs. Meta4 is all the evidence we need of how little help Meta needs to be a dick).

    Finally...someone has seen it...

    lol

    *Same old Registeel... he's invincible (conditions apply: Invincibility does not include critical hits)
    *Always enjoys fighting Heatran, Lanturn and Magnezone... especially Psych Up Magnezone... which reminds me of the discussion about switching out since Psych Up would then copy Salamence/Garchomp/whatever's neutral stats, and allow for an easy kill with EQ - I only just realised that this will fail against the 50% of Magnezone with Magnet Pull... so I was lucky with the 2 times I switched out.
    *Note to a certain person Bozo knows: The above statement contained an instance of sarcasm...

    In some way you will see the benefit in me saying that "it's even easier for me to find such mistakes" without getting some nonexistant sense of superiority—after all, better to know that your team is great than that I'm a hindsight champion even if both are true (as I've stated before to someone else itt). So basically, the biggest room for improvement here was when you decided to switch from Cresselia to Registeel immediatey after Tricking. I was surprised to see this but had to remind myself it wasn't my battle I was watching—I always, always Flash/Charm/Reflect on pokes even if they don't do that much damage to Cresselia, and in one sense *especially* if.

    There's little reason not to further impede the potential of a threat, no matter how little, with your lead. A lot of people like to save their Trick leads and have them as unscathed as possible, which is a decision I've tried to advise against in this thread for a number of reasons. I don't know if this is why you saved Cresselia or if you felt that Registeel really didn't need that much assistance setting up against Double-Edge, but regardless, there's almost no reason to not have thrown one or two Flashes in Mamo's eyes even though you couldn't paralyze it. If Registeel needs 10 turns to set up (six Curses, three Amnesias and one Sub) and Mamoswine has exactly 19 turns max on your screen after the Trick, you can definitely spare the "time" to Flash it a few times allowing for a few Subs from Registeel.

    Even more, you would much rather it CH you with Struggle than anything else, which will happen faster than against a poke you Paralyzed (unless it was never FP), and on top of that, after just 20 turns it will Struggle off your screen and you'll never have to be without a Sub if you time it right (read: CH Mamo Struggle won't break your Sub almost half the time). And having Registeel at ~170 HP due to prior DE misses would have allowed you to still beat both Mamo and Abomasnow later even with the impending (inevitable?) Focus Blast CH.

    tldr flash rules even more than you know now!!

    Yeah I thought about testing it immediately but then I realized I kind of still have a streak going...and even in the non-BT Frontier areas I didn't want to mess up current streaks, but then I remembered what my DS said after the aforementioned ejection/freezing and then what garo's screen said so yeah.

    Also why don't you have to be the police? We touched on this earlier but definitely if other people see shady things in supposed streaks it helps all of us to point them out...I mean I was kind of surprised that no one had called the guy out yet at least on the the strength of his team if they didn't know that thing about Prev/Record.

    As was stated it was in a multiple of 7 and he/she states he/she didn't lose so that made my "detective work" pretty easy.

    I will state again how much I wish fabrication records was harder, but I am kind of leaning more towards "stop caring about the BT/BF" than wishing for something that we can only do so much to control...

    lol

    Hahaha, I was wondering when and if someone would ever see that! I spent like 10-15 minutes last spring coming up with the most offensive/funny combination I could find and that's what I decided on. The notion of trading your Mother is pretty funny too, though...

    Congrats on your progress so far. One thing I noticed with both your and Bozo's team is that you don't have anything that can outspeed that Gliscor even if you don't Trick...that's a big problem since you're not supposed to be Tricking it if you can help it. Garchomp and Latios before it were both able to outspeed Gliscor, Kingler and Pinsir (Pinsir had a Scarf in DP but no Speed EVs), which was not by accident. That may be reason enough to use Salamence over Dragonite and Jolly so it can actually Gliscor since that really, really matters. The loss in power may be off-putting, but Latios and Garchomp already both have +Spe Natures and have proven to be very effective with them.

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