PO cup?

[capefeather]

I think that there should be a system similar to the old #stark cup, where players can build up a win/loss record. However, unlike what the #stark cup was supposed to be, I was thinking that there shouldn't be a long-term goal like a prize at the end; instead, building up a good record is the goal in itself. I was also thinking that recording an individual player's results would be on an opt-in basis, and that people hosting tournaments could also choose whether to have "fun" tournaments or "srs bsns" tournaments that impact opt-in player records.

The problem with "quick" tournaments like the Smogon Tour and the Late Night Tournament is that they're done within a short time frame, and thus there are scheduling issues. In addition, the problem with longer tournaments (i.e. everything else) is that they drag on and on, making it very difficult to determine whether one can stay for as long as they need. This "PO cup" solves both of these problems for those who need that to happen. The other problem that I've found with point-prize-based tournaments like the Smogon Tour and the #stark cup is that if you can't participate in all of the tournaments and thus cannot maximize your chances of winning, that's somewhat discouraging as far as participating in the tournaments at all goes. The no-prize aspect of this system aims to fix this. Finally, holding "srs bsns" tournaments may actually incite good players into participating in PO tournaments and legitimize the process of building up your cred through this system. However, there are still "fun" tournaments if you just feel like entering a tournament and not really playing super-seriously.

The biggest problem that I see with this is communicating that this is going on. Will people be able to distinguish a "fun" tournament from a "srs bsns" tournament? Does the host have to point out which one it is every time? What if he/she miscommunicates or simply forgets?

What do you all think? (Also I put this in PR so that all of the "PR" people could weigh in, despite this not being "policy". Hope that's OK.)

 

[locopoke]

I think that there should be a system similar to the old #stark cup, where players can build up a win/loss record. However, unlike what the #stark cup was supposed to be, I was thinking that there shouldn't be a long-term goal like a prize at the end; instead, building up a good record is the goal in itself.

Just wanted to point out that there was literally no goal in #stark cups other than building up a good record (Aeolus made it clear that he didn't want status to be given to winners because they won and that the tournaments should spark discussion).

Anyway I support this because the more tournaments the better.

 

[cim]

What do you do when New Player X comes in a year after the cup starts and finds there's no way they could ever match Veteran Winner Y's 100 tournament wins?

I don't personally enjoy "serious" tournaments (they elevate the importance of a single battle in a long term game) but something like PO tournaments that are fun and spontaneous are cool.

Though - why not just log who wins the constant stream of PO tournaments already going on now, rather than use the forums?

 

[undisputed]

Is it just me, or does it seem like this is easily accomplishable by starting a script tourney and telling IRC members to join? Obviously it doesn't have record keeping, but seems like the same thing otherwise.

What do you do when New Player X comes in a year after the cup starts and finds there's no way they could ever match Veteran Winner Y's 100 tournament wins?

I don't see why it matters if the tournaments are for fun and to promote discussion.

 

[capefeather]

I figured that it would be better to take advantage of the system that's in place that was designed to generate tournaments. I suppose that we could do it with IRC like with the #stark cup, though.

What do you do when New Player X comes in a year after the cup starts and finds there's no way they could ever match Veteran Winner Y's 100 tournament wins?

That's exactly why there's no prize at the end. The point is not to compare each other's overall win-loss record. For all practical purposes, only recent stuff will probably matter anyway. Say you wanted to vote on a suspect test, but for some reason you didn't make the rating threshold, but you have a pretty sexy tournament run for that month. Or, say you wanted to be a Smogon Frontier Brain and you have a great tournament record to back that up. It's about building a "resume" of sorts. My profs are far more accomplished than I am, but that clearly doesn't mean much. It's the same thing with this.

 

[Andy Snype]

PO Cups are basically the same thing as Stark cups except no NetBattle. Stark Cups were greeted with enthusiasm upon the beginning, but people eventually stopped taking them seriously. Similarly, I feel that PO Cups will follow the same fate. They are met with the same enthusiasm; however, I feel that they will not be taken seriously.

PO Cups are hosted daily. Tournaments lose their value as they become more common because people take them for granted. If you win a PO Cup, congratulations, you won 1 PO cup out of 200 or so of other PO cups that have been hosted. In addition, the PO Cup leaderboard can be easily manipulated. How do we distinguish a good player that has a w/l ratio of slightly over 1 from playing other good players from a player that just joins cups when only inexperienced players join to boost their w/l ratio when people find a tournament record that is essentially the "wins/losses?" It makes sense to use the ladder leaderboard instead to determine if the applicant deserves the privilege of being selected for whatever purpose because it shows consistency and the fact that as your rating rises, you will generally face better people.

 

[Bad Ass]

Yeah, keep these unofficial. I don't see why we need to keep track of everything. PO Tournaments are one of the great things about PO, don't see a need to ruin the fun element of them.

 

[capefeather]

But there's no compulsion to run a "srs bsns" tournament as opposed to a "fun" one. It could be like the #stark cup except PO's engine could be used as a vehicle. Either that or we could just continue the #stark cup itself, which I notice stopped after we got our own server. Additionally, if the "srs bsns" ones are rare enough, then it could work out, anyway. (Maybe just continuing the #stark cup will help to keep it rare?) I just think that there should be some way to have serious tournaments without the burden of strict or drawn-out schedules.

Look, all I know is that what the #stark cup set up with the archive thread and everything is way more comprehensive and useful than PO's rating system -.-

 

[cim]

So if there's no interest in this tournament being serious business and you don't want people to compare win records with each other, what makes it any different than using PO's system and writing your own WLT down?

 

[capefeather]

The point is that I like the idea of the #stark cup, I was slightly misinformed about there being a prize attributed to it, and I think that something of the sort should continue to happen. Besides, writing your own WLT down is kind of prone to dishonesty.

 

[ENZ0]

I think PO cups stay should as they are, making them serious takes their fun purpose away. After hosting some I've seen people play to test, show off atm, or just simply have fun and joke around with. Making a leaderboard will induce many players to stress out and play when they don't to play, even if their is no prize involved. I believe the ladder already fits this role, not to mention it is much less controllable by the individual as snype said. And, dividing it into fun and srs bsns seems to complicate it for everyone. In my opinion, we should keep them simple and fun!