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Poison Arceus (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Badal, May 26, 2011.

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  1. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    [​IMG]
    Poison Arceus
    [​IMG]
    Code:
    QC: trickroom, Fireburn [B][2/2][/B]
    GP: Calm Pokemaster, NatGeo [B][2/2][/B]


    trickroom's Original Thread


    [Overview]
    <p>The Creator oozes with the scum and filth He has deemed you to be in His toxic form. The might of the pestilential deity vanquishes His victims faster than the deadliest of poisons. While the goopy master cannot scratch the hide of His
    Steel-type nemeses with His filthy sludges, nor is He fond of getting smacked about by Mewtwo's Psytrike or swallowing his arch nemesis's massive Earthquake, His viscous hide protects Him from even the most powerful of onslaughts. The venomous creator even consumes all forms of Toxic and Toxic Spikes in His mighty gullet when He enters the battlefield. Bow before your corrosive maker or risk eating a divine Judgment to the face!</p>

    [SET]

    name: Support Arceus
    move 1: Recover
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Reflect
    move 3: Ice Beam / Flamethrower
    move 4: Roar / Stealth Rock / Perish Song
    item: Toxic Plate
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]


    <p>Poison Arceus
    's main advantage over its other formes is the ability to remove the dreaded Toxic Spikes. It makes a fantastic supporter just because of that reason alone. With access to a reliable healing move in Recover, and great support moves, Poison Arceus can stall out multiple threats. Will-O-Wisp is a great move that helps Arceus weaken its opponents while severely crippling physical attackers. Reflect never misses and halves damage to the team from physical attacks for 5 turns. Roar fits well in the final slot to prevents your opponent from setting up and rack up residual damage. Stealth Rock can be used if you have nothing else to set it up. Since Poison Arceus usually doesn't need coverage moves on this set, Perish Song can be used instead to ensure your victory over end game sweepers, providing you can stall them out for at least 3 turns. Thanks to its Poison typing, Poison Arceus can swallow any Fighting-type move from the likes of Terrakion, Heracross, and Lucario.

    <p>Will-O-Wisp is the preferred status move because this set is geared to counter physical sweepers such as Swords Dance Ghost Arceus and Rayquaza. Though Toxic and Thunder Wave both have their merits, Will-O-Wisp has the advantage of crippling the feared Choice Band Groudon, who would otherwise stomp Arceus to pieces. Ice Beam's utility and coverage in Ubers makes it the primary choice for an attack, and it deters Groudon from switching in, while OHKOing both Rayquaza and Garchomp. Flamethrower prevents
    Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory from setting up on Poison Arceus for free.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>Poison Arceus
    's main niche is to absorb Toxic Spikes. Therefore, it is very hard to stop it from doing so. However, there are some Pokemon that are especially disruptive to Poison Arceus. Mewtwo is this set's nemesis, as Arceus would be forced to either fire very weak Ice Beams or risk getting smashed by a super effective Psytrike. A great way of dealing with Mewtwo is Giratina-O, whose Shadow Sneak can wear down Mewtwo rather quickly. Lugia, and Giratina also do fine as checks to Mewtwo. Heatran will wall you easily due to its unique typing, so you will need something such as Garchomp to take care of it with a powerful Earthquake. Reshiram can roast Heatran with Blue Flare thanks to Turbo Blaze while laughing at Heatran's Flamethrower. Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory make great teammates for Support Arceus, as it will be forcing a lot of switches, which you can take advantage of by laying down entry hazards of your own. Reshiram can easily threaten Poison Arceus with its immensely powerful Blue Flare, while Kyogre with its turbulent downpour is able to drown Arceus easily with a mighty Water Spout, making Palkia a great teammate. Palkia can come in on Blue Flare and Water Spout thanks to its resistances while threatening both Reshiram and Kyogre with Draco Meteor and Thunder respectively. Choice Band Groudon can OHKO Poison Arceus with its enormous Earthquake, and even with Will-O-Wisp, Poison Arceus should not try staying in on offensive Groudon. Giratina, Skarmory, and Lugia should be considered as partners to handle offensive Groudon. Chansey and Blissey are natural partners to any physical wall, Poison Arceus included, as it will greatly appreciate Wish support and someone to absorb powerful special attacks for it.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment
    move 3: Focus Blast / Fire Blast
    move 4: Recover
    item: Toxic Plate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>
    Poison-type moves are resisted by 4 types, not including Steel-types being immune to it, while only hitting Grass-types super effectively, who are rare in Ubers. However, Poison Arceus's immunity to Poison-type moves, especially Toxic, allows it to set up on both Chansey and Blissey with impunity. Apart from absorbing Toxic Spikes, this set plays identical to almost every other Arceus forme's Calm Mind set. </p>

    <p>Focus Blast is recommended in the second slot due to its ability to hit most Steel-types for super effective damage. Fire Blast is another option to roast Ferrothorn, Forretress
    , and Skarmory in one blast, though when using Fire Blast you lose the ability to smack Dialga hard and Heatran is now immune to both of your moves. Ice Beam, on the other hand, trades the ability to hit Steel-types for the ability to hit the plethora of Dragon-types in Ubers for super effective damage, most notably Giratina, who resists Judgment with its Ghost typing. Sludge Bomb is also a possibility over Judgment if you enjoy the 30% chance of poisoning your opponent. The loss in power is generally negligible when Arceus is a bulky booster and will eventually garner enough boosts to sweep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>Poison Arceus greatly appreciates Groudon being out of the picture before it attempts to sweep, as the standard Rock Polish Groudon will always OHKO Arceus with Earthquake while you need 2 Calm Minds under your belt to OHKO it with Ice Beam or
    5 Calm Minds to guarantee an OHKO with Focus Blast. Lugia makes a fantastic partner for Poison Arceus by resisting Psychic and Ground moves, and Lugia can wall any Groudon set with a combination of Reflect and Roost. Wobbuffet is a great teammate for Calm Mind Arceus as with Encore, it can almost guarantee a free Calm Mind boost for Arceus while your opponent switches out. Wobbuffet greatly appreciates Poison Arceus removing Toxic Spikes. If Ice Beam is chosen over Focus Blast, Magnezone makes a great teammate, trapping and killing off the Steel-types that wall you, though Magnezone needs Hidden Power Fire to eliminate Ferrothorn. Cresselia is also a decent partner by providing useful resistances to Poison Arceus's weaknesses while easily walling Groudon and Garchomp. Giratina-O makes a great partner by checking Mewtwo who is a major threat to this set and checking Groudon to an extend.</p>

    [Other Options]


    <p>For the Support set, Judgment can be used over Ice Beam or Flamethrower because it is Arceus's strongest attack, but having a
    Poison-type move as your only attack is horrible in Ubers. Thunder Wave or Toxic can be used over Will-O-Wisp on the Support set, but Will-O-Wisp's ability to cripple Poison Arceus's biggest threats in Groudon and Garchomp makes it the superior choice. Earthquake can be used to eliminate Heatran in one hit.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]


    <p>Mewtwo is the best counter for Poison Arceus. Psystrike can OHKO the Calm Mind set regardless of any boosts while the support set is 2HKOed. Mewtwo can even set up its own Calm Minds while taking little damage and threatening not only to destroy Poison Arceus but to take out your entire team. Will-O-Wisp will not even
    cripple Mewtwo because Psytrike uses its Special Attack stat. Groudon can shatter Poison Arceus's thick hide with a mighty Earthquake. The standard Rock Polish and Choice Band Groudon will always OHKO non support Poison Arceus with Earthquake. Groudon has to avoid Will-O-Wisps though. In a similar manner, Garchomp can pose a threat if Arceus lacks Ice Beam or Will-O-Wisp, as Choice Scarf Garchomp will 2HKO it with Earthquake. Heatran and other Steel-types are a pain for Arceus because it will have to rely on Focus Blast's shaky accuracy in order to take care of them. Steel Arceus deserves a special mention because not only can it Calm Mind boost along with Poison Arceus, but it could also use Roar to phaze your Arceus out, putting you in a real tough spot. Steel Arceus will not enjoy Fire Blast in the sun, however. Reshiram and Kyogre can OHKO the support set with their mighty STAB attacks. If Arceus failed to set up enough Calm Minds, both Reshiram and Kyogre can OHKO Arceus with Water Spout or Blue Flare, respectively. Calm Mind Kyogre can set up alongside Arceus and win the war with it's superior special stats and weather-boosted attacks. Ho-Oh can smash poor Poison Arceus with its mighty Sacred Fire or repeated Brave Birds while laughing at most attacks, though Ho-oh will not enjoy facing the support set if it has Roar and Stealth Rock because Ho-Oh absolutely hates taking Stealth Rock damage.</p>
  2. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    check goes here

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  3. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    Thank You. This is now done.
  4. Shnoogle

    Shnoogle

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    You shouldn't mention Ghost Arceus as a check to Mewtwo because you are already using Poison Arceus. Since wifi battles on Pokémon Online have the species clause, you cannot use both.
  5. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    From the Calm Mind set:

    The second sentence basically sums up why Sludge Bomb be slashed in with Judgement, if not be the primary slash. That 30% Poison rate is just. so. good. Apart from Steel Arceus and other Poison Arceus, you can really turn the tide of a Calm Mind war in your favour if you get that 30% poison, since you'll be forcing the opposing Arceus to Recover more often and therefore handing you the momentum. Like the second sentence has said, the power difference isn't THAT important since Arceus doesn't have SpA investment, while 90 base power isn't that bad, especially when you have 30% to status the opponent.

    tl;dr - Slash Sludge Bomb with Judgement on the Calm Mind, preferably primary slash, but is okay if not as well.
  6. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    I was mildly amused by the overview, but I think it needs a lot of improvement. My suggestions:

  7. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Needs a spacebar.

    Also if this is true:

    "The loss in power is generally negligible when Arceus is a bulky booster and will eventually garner enough boosts to sweep"

    Then why isn't Sludge Bomb main slash and Judgement other options?
  8. TungstenMudkip

    TungstenMudkip

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    (I'm nitpicking because I've seen it like 3 times)

    Psystrike. Not Psytrike

    Just hit ctrl+f.
  9. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Is this analysis still being worked on? If it is, I suggest the following revisions:

    1) Make Sludge Bomb the primary slash on the Calm Mind set. The reasons are in my previous post.
    2) In terms of counters, Steel Arceus is probably the best. Mewtwo can't switch into Arceus willy nilly, although it is a great check. I'd mention Ground Arceus and Psychic Arceus as well in the counters section. Excadrill outspeeds Arceus in the sand and OHKOs with Earthquake.
    3)

    Neither RP or CB is standard on Groudons, although Groudon in general makes Poison Arceus' life difficult anyway.
  10. trickroom

    trickroom
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    I previously wanted to put Sludge Bomb as the main move on the Calm Mind set but I remembered the QC team not liking it. They said sometimes normal poisoning can be a disadvantage, such as you can no longer burn Arceus I guess.

    Still, I think Sludge Bomb is the better choice due to the 30% chance of wearing down foes faster but I would like the QC team to rethink about it first.

    Steel Arceus is actually nearly OHKOed by a +1 Fire Blast in the sun from Poison Arceus. Mewtwo can still survive any unboosted Attack and OHKO with Psytrike.

    86.9% - 102.7%. This is what Steel Arceus takes from Fire Blast in the sun from Poison Arceus. Fire Blast is one of the main moves of CM Poison Arceus. Even +1 Focus Blast does a ton to Steel Arceus, the worse thing is Steel Arceus might not even outspeed Poison Arceus. Steel Arceus can't really hurt Poison Arceus, especially if you are switching in on it. The Support set can just burn and Roar Steel Arceus out.

    Psychic and Ground Arceus should be added in the counters list. Excadrill only OHKOs the Calm Mind set, but yeah it must be included.

    Standard Rock Polish and Choice Band means the usual Rock Polish and Choice Band Groudon? Also Fireburn put the Rock Polish set as the second set and it still works very well.
  11. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    IMO, Just give Sludge Bomb a slash on the CM set and dedicate a couple of lines in AC about the pros and cons of using Sludge Bomb over Judgment. IMO, whether it is a main slash or not doesnt really matter since Sludge Bomb's advantages and disadvantages pretty much balance out.

    Also probably remove CB Groudon, it is hardly ever seen and Support Groudon can take on Poison Arceus just as well. Burn sucks but Earthquake will hurt Poison Arceus.
  12. trickroom

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    Yeah Sludge Bomb should just be slashed in.

    I think keep CB Groudon because it is listed as one of the sets in the Groudon analysis. It is also the only set capable of OHKOing any non Support Poison Arceus guaranteed. Rock Polish Groudon can fail to OHKO if Poison Arceus is packing some Defense EVs.

    Support Groudon only does 59.5% - 70.3% to Calm Mind Poison Arceus. CB Groudon OHKOes guaranteed. +1 Fire Blast will actually 2HKO Groudon.

    Against the support set, standard Impish Groudon does 43.7% - 51.8% to Poison Arceus. If Groudon is burned, it can no longer beat it. CB Groudon does a massive 85.6% - 101.4%, even when burned CB Groudon can defeat Poison Arceus if a critical hit lands.

    I used CB Groudon this gen with a lot of success before and he really punishes team without a Ground-type immune.
  13. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    Too inactive and out of touch to give this a change. Sorry but have to give this up to anyone who's interested.
  14. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Will gladly take over this!
  15. Darker than Black

    Darker than Black

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    support arceus seems interesting, but who would use it? there are better ways to use arceus.
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