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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    I just beat the main story, I'll post my various teammembers, but I'll start with these two.

    [​IMG]
    Aron - Low Tier
    -Availability: After the fifth Gym, accessed in Mistralton Cave with Surf.
    -Stats: Aron and its evolutions can take any physical attack bar Fighting or Ground and laugh at it. Even Aqua Tail only tickles. Aron and its evolutions have pretty good Attack. Their low Speed can be somewhat rectified with Automatize, however their low Special Defense cannot.
    -Movepool: Aside from the ton of special moves Aggron can learn and not use effectively, you have Rock Slide, Iron Tail, Bulldoze, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, elemental punches, Take Down and Double-Edge. Automatize and Rock Polish can help with the Speed issue.
    -Major Battles: Lairon/Aggron can clean Skyla and Team Plasma pretty easy (Colress will whip him though) and help against Drayden's Haxorus, but otherwise isn't all to useful. Marlon is suicide and the Elite Four all have Pokemon or move that can one shot Aggron pretty readily unless you have Sturdy. Oh, and you fight a ton of Fighting- and Water-types later in the game, so have fun with that.
    -Additional Comments: Good stats, good movepool, but lategame BW2 is just way too cruel on that typing. Sturdy is appreciated but only somewhat fixes the issue. Considering all the Steel-types you could be using (the insanely powerful Magnezone, the indestructible Skarmory, the versatile Lucario or the disgustingly durable Ferrothorn, for example), adding Aggron to your team probably isn't doing you any favors. I really like Aggron and thought it was amazing in RSE, but Black and White 2 is just too brutal to it.

    [​IMG]
    Tangela - Mid Tier
    -Availability: After the sixth Gym, right around Undella Town.
    -Stats: You have two options here. You can use Eviolite Tangela, who is slightly faster and has ridiculous bulk, or Tangrowth, who has more Attack, a wider movepool and more item options. Tangrowth's only flaw is its pathetic Special Defense (mine was Sassy and it still couldn't take special hits well), since it has enough bulk to pretty much take anything thrown at it before retaliating. It's offensive stats are great.
    -Movepool: Use a Heart Scale to get Sleep Powder first and foremost. Tangrowth's offensive options include Giga Drain, Power Whip, Energy Ball, Bulldoze, AncientPower, Return and Rock Slide: a lot more expansive than many other Grass-types. It also has Stun Spore, but Sleep Powder is generally more useful. Tangela's movepool is worse.
    -Major Battles: Tangrowth/Tangela can solo Marlon no problem. Against Drayden and the Elite Four/Champion it stands out for being able to tank hits while you heal your main attacker or debilitate them with Sleep Powder. Giga Drain/Power Whip does a nice chunk to neutral Pokemon as well. With Bulldoze, it can somewhat handle Team Plasma as well.
    -Additional Comments: Tangela got extremely lucky with its placement in the game. It is found in a route full of fishermen and between Undella Bay and Reversal Mountain, so you got a lot of Water-, Rock- and Ground-types to train on. After a short training session with Lucky Egg, Tangela/Tangrowth is ready to go. Very good Pokemon, only held back by the fact Lilligant is so damn amazing.
  2. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    From what I remember of my Japanese PT, my Lucario was still pretty useful even though I forgot to learn Swords Dance (true story, i blame my terrible jap for not realising it >.>)

    From what I did though I was generally spamming the hell out of Dark Pulse and Bone Rush, both moves really help Lucario's coverage. Sure, it's not really very spectacular against gym leaders, but it's ability to destroy mooks is insane: most Krokoroks and Scraggys will have trouble surviving +1 (work up) force palm. And you get Return too.

    Lucario sucking until 7th gym? Impossible. Lucario pretty much survives on it's excellent base offenses alone until it gets toys like Aura Sphere, Drain Punch and Close Combat. Unless you have some shit like Bold Lucario with 0 ivs in offense i cannot see it sucking at all.
  3. lucariojr

    lucariojr goodra will hunting
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    I don't know about this. It might be because I like Crobat in general (and I named mine MARTY and I will forever bond with any bat named MARTY), but I'd place it in Mid tier simply because of how strong Acrobatics is and it doesn't get murdered by Scrafty like Sigigigigigigiglyph. Flying Gems aren't hard to come by either, and it's decently bulky. Sure it has ass movepool besides Fly and Acrobatics, but that's all it needs, really. The only bad thing about Acrobatics is not being able to hold items (besides Flying Gem), but doesn't matter that much Bite+Confuse Ray is nice to test your luck, I guess. Does X-Scissor do anything?

    In terms of Happiness, I got mine to evolve fairly quickly by using the lunch specials or whatever you can buy at the Join Avenue, but I think it would evolve at around 30 or so if you get it at the sewers. It also gets Wing Attack when you catch it, which is fantastic for that point in the game, allowing it to level up nicely vs the gym and reach Golbat stage before too long. So, unless I'm missing something important (where do you even FIND the flying fossil mon and I'm playing Black), Crobat is the second best Flying-type you get in the game.

    edit: i'm still taking my time w this game; only have 6 badges and well over 100 pokemon in my pokedex (and probably my box....)
  4. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    spoilers (open)
    Archen (and Tirtouga) are not available until after you beat the E4 and reach Nacrene City. Lenora will let you choose between the two fossils.


    I forgot to add these two Pokémon to the "untiered" Pokémon list.

    This is the complete list of Pokémon in the Unova Pokédex that are absent until after you beat the E4 or are only accessible by special means (and they will not be tiered because of that):

    Show Hide
    Victini
    Munna
    Eevee - Leafeon
    Eevee - Glaceon
    Tirtouga
    Archen
    Tornadus
    Thudurus
    Landorus
    Palpitoad
    Stunfisk
    Vigoroth
    Corphish
    Jigglypuff
    Lickitung
    Yanma
    Tropius
    Carnivine
    Croagunk
    Pupitar
    Reshiram [White version 2]
    Zekrom [Black version 2]
    Kyurem
    Keldeo
    Meloetta
    Genesect
  5. CabooseFTW

    CabooseFTW

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    Heatmor, Durant, Palpitoad, Stunfisk, Leafeon, Glaceon, Cryogonal, and Munna are others who don't come until post-game.
  6. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    You are indeed correct. I really screwed up there (I've had the game for months catching these, and this still happens. For shame me.)

    EDIT:

    The list is updated. It should now be complete.

    I also made it so all Eevee's evolutions are tiered seperately (it is possible to get all 5 at the same time though. Leafeon and Glaceon are untiered).
  7. Manic Martini

    Manic Martini

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    I named mine after a drag queen. And I love Crobat also - favorite Flying type ever. Finished the game this morning, also; still think it's Low Tier, personally, but Mid might be possible.

    Credit where it's due: to be certain it rocks against Burgh as Golbat (especially with Eviolite). That's its shining moment, but it's the ONLY shining moment it gets where it's really useful, and it wanes afterwards. It actually takes a durability hit after evolving to Crobat since it can't use Eviolite anymore. In the future, I'd hold off the evolution until you get the Lucky Egg or some other great item for it. Whether you go for the bulk or the speed, though, it's offenses combines with its movepool aren't all too good. There isn't another gym or major battle it does well at after Burgh, either:

    -Elesa: typing disadvantage
    -Clay: Rock type coverage moves
    -Skyla: neither here nor there, but isn't exactly doing WELL here, and has to watch out for Swoobat
    -Drayden: Confuse Ray on the Dragon Dancers could actually work out IF you get REALLY lucky. But the room for backfire totally outweighs that possibility, and it's losing in raw power to a Dragon Dancer on its own.
    -Marlon: neither here nor there. Certainly not winning you the gym or shining, though.
    -Plasma: does well against Scrafty and Scolipede. They're not all too common, though. Corless will destroy it without question.
    -Elite Four: Pretty dead weight here, too. Literally all of Marshal's pokemon have a Rock type move, and while it has coverage attacks against the others, they'll have more than enough bulk not to really be threatened (or dual typings that neuter it's coverage move).

    In fairness, it does start doing better around route 22 and 23 where wild Fighting types and Amoongus are common enough. But just about anything can do well against the random 'mons on some route or other, so I don't really see that as a reason to move it up.

    X-Scissor helps it against random Psychics. Better hope it kills in one hit, or they'll kill Crobat. And that actually describes Crobat really well a lot of the time. many of the things it should do well against like Fighting types frequently have moves that will kill it back, and a combination of their bulk and Crobat's only-middling offense turn what should be opportunities for it to pull its weight into a tragedy for it (who decided Gurdurr should get Rock Throw and then Rock Slide?). Maybe I was really unlucky or had bad IVs or both. Same thing would apply with X-Scissor and and Psychics


    Starting with Wing Attack is a lot better than not starting with it, but Zubat doesn't have the stats to really do anything with it until it evolves 7-8 levels later for Burgh's gym.

    Bite+Confuse Ray is often the best it can try to do. But relying on Luck is never exactly a reliable approach. Certainly not something that would move it up on a tier list, I would think.

    It's not horrible or anything, but I would call it subpar. I think something in mid-tier is doing more than it is. I can see it somewhat skating between Low and Mid, because it's not BAD. But it's good in ONE major fight. Perhaps it's placement out to be dependant on what else makes the tiers for comparison.

    Right now, I see Dracoyoshi nominating Aron for Low, which also destroys the first gym it can go to, but has more options for coverage, Sturdy, and a typing that gives it a lot of resistances with the defense to really abuse them with.

    How many Flying Gems are you getting, by the way? I maybe have one or two.
  8. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Clay's Korkorak doesn't have a Rock move, and can't Sandslash Rollout build being stopped by the first turn of Fly?
  9. Manic Martini

    Manic Martini

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    Actually, that's true. Krokorok is pretty frail physically, too. Crobat could handle himself pretty well against that. The Sandslash has more bulk than Crobat so I'm not sure about that one, though.

    But when I say Clay has rock type coverage moves, I referring to the gym in general. Every Drilbur and Baltoy can hit Cro super effectively, although Bite coverage on Baltoy could work. The Sandile DO lack rock type moves, though (they all have Intimidate, but that can be dealt with by switching).

    Perhaps I'm being harsher than is appropriate on Zubat. I'd like to see someone make a case for Mid, though.
  10. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Floatzel: - Mid Tier
    Availability: Lostlorn Forest after getting Surf. When trained up to part with the team it should be evolved.
    Stats: Really fast, pretty good Attack, usable Special Attack
    Typing: Water-types are kind of bland. However, it is available a lot earlier than a lot of the other Water-types (aside from Oshawott, Marill, and Psyduck).
    Movepool: Learns a number of HMs, gets Surf since how its available
    Major Battles: Unfortunately, pretty average/bad at handling these guys. It isn't available until right after Clay I think (if it isn't then it handles Clay well). It does OK against Skyla (nuetral in every way), does good against Drayden's Flygon and Iris's Dragon's to an extent (Ice Fang), destroys Emboar/Simisear if the Rival has it, but all the other battles it can only get a fast hit on a Pokemon.
    Additional Comments: Anaverage Pokemon, but if one needs a Water-type early on and needs it to evolve early on, Floatzel is pretty much the only one out there other than Azumarill if you didn't pick Oshawott.
  11. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    I tried him out against Sandslash, and after a lengthy battle (about ~5 minutes), Sandslash eventually came up on top on Red HP. He used a Hyper Potion, and I used a few regular potions.
  12. rocky505

    rocky505

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    Do note that you can teach floatzel Ice punch with the 10 red shards.
  13. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke DISRESPECT YOUR SUPERIORS
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    So I completed White 2 yesterday with a team of the following and I'd like to share my options on their tiering. I will slowly edit in my opinion of each member.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Serperior: Mid - Tier
    Availability: Starter
    Stats: Serperior's mediocre offenses do it no favors when in game is so
    Typing: Discuss this Pokémon's typing in a sentence or two. Is its STAB effecient or not, does it have any great resistances or glaring weaknesses?
    Movepool: It's movepool is still very limited. Aqua Tail and Draon Pulse are welcomed additions, however. Getting Return from the start is also pretty big, as it means you're not stuck with Tackle for ages.
    Major Battles: Serperior does very well versus the 5th and 8th gyms, alright against the 1st and 4th gym, and bad against the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 7th gym. It can go toe to toe with the Dark and Fighting E4 members thanks to coil, but isn't too hot versus every other member. Not really an outstanding record.
    Additional Comments: This is essentially the same Serperior we knew and used in BW, but with a few nice buffs like an earlier Return, new move tutors, and a Gym it absolutely dominates. Still, I don't see it moving out of mid tier any time soon.

    [​IMG]
    Arcanine: Mid - Tier
    Availability: Growlithe is available right before the second gym.
    Stats: Arcanine has well balanced stats, but it doesn't hit particularly hard until it learns Flamethrower (or if you're willing to work with Growlithe for long enough, Flare Blitz). Intimidate is very helpful in major battles versus particularly deadly targets.
    Typing: Fire-typing is useful in most of the game's open field areas as most opponents will be taking super-effective or neutral damage.
    Movepool: Arcanine's movepool is somewhat lacking. Between your Fire moves, Extremespeed, and Dig, you have enough to work with, but all feel a little lack luster
    Major Battles: Growlithe dominates the 3rd gym, is alright in the 2nd, 4th, and 6th gym, and doesn't enjoy the 5th, 7th, or 8th gyms at all. Intimidate is very useful versus important targets during gym battles like Iris's / Drayden's Haxorus.
    Additional Comments: I'm really disappointed in Arcanine from my run through with it. I was expecting something as amazing as Darmanitan, but it really couldn't sweep through entire teams like Darmanitan can.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie: - High Tier
    Availability: Staryu is available slightly after the 6th gym. This may seem late, but level 40 Staryus can be caught in Undella Bay and immediately evolved thanks to the free Water Stone on one of the earlier routes.
    Stats: Good stats in everything that matters. Good Special Attack and Good Speed
    Typing: Water/Psychic is pretty cool typing, both offensively and defensively. There's really solid coverage between the two of them.
    Movepool: It gets everything that matters. Right as you get it, you already have Surf. The Psychic TM is just north of Undella TM. Blizzard and Thunder can be purchased in Opelucid City and you'll have Thunderbolt / Ice Beam before the E4 anyway.
    Major Battles: Starmie shines versus Drayden and Iris and can go toe to toe with Marlon thanks to Thunder. Most of team plasma won't like its coverage either.
    Additional Comments: Starmie is good old Starmie, there's not really much to say it's a fantastic option for any team. The only thing really holding it back is its fragility and how late it's obtained.

    [​IMG]
    Scolipede: - Mid Tier
    Availability: Venipede comes right before the second gym.
    Stats: Scolipede is a little on the frail side, but he has solid attack and great speed to make up for it.
    Typing: Bug / Poison isn't as bad a typing as it might sound. x4 resistance to fighting comes in handy very often. It's kind of meh overall though.
    Movepool: Scolipede has a few options to play with like Payback, Bulldoze, and Rock Slide, but the main focus is on his one, glorious STAB attack, Megahorn.
    Major Battles: Scolipede and its previous evolutions do well in the 2nd and 3rd gym, are alright in the 7th and 8th gym, and pretty bad in the others. It deals pretty darn well with every non poison-type team plasma Pokemon as well. It DESTROYS Grimsly if you use an X Attack on Liepard's Fake Out.
    Additional Comments: Before it evolves into Scolipede, working with it is a rollercoaster. At first, it's really bad relying on Rollout and Poison Sting to do any damage. Once it gets Poison Tail, the pace picks up. Once Bug Bite's on board, you have a Pokemon that's pulling its own weight for the rest of the game. The only reason Scolipede's any good though is Megahorn. Having a 120 base power STAB at level 30 is insane. You have an unstoppable centipede god versus most of the game for a while, but it grows steadily less useful and frailer as time goes on. It's still a big threat even at the closing of the game and it's an 85% guarenteed KO versus anything weak to Bug.

    [​IMG]
    Aggron: - Mid Tier
    Availability: Aron's available slightly after the 5th gym in Mistralton cave.
    Stats: Sky high defense and great attack make Aron your go to guy when you foe's physically based and lacks a super effective attack.
    Typing: Rock / Steel is pretty useful in game when there's a distinct lack of Ground and Fighting coverage. Resisting Acrobatics x4 is really handy for the 6th gym.
    Movepool: Aron's movepool is pretty limited, but it gets all it needs. It comes with Iron Head and the Rock Slide TM is in the very same cave you find Aron in. Evolving into Aggron adds a few cool options, but many of them are Special Attacks. Personally, I found Thunder Wave to be an excellent option on Aggron, making Pokemon easier to catch and slowing down key targets.
    Major Battles: Aggron dominates the 6th gym outside Swanna, is a huge help in the 7th gym, and absolutely useless in the 8th. He can take on team plasma pretty easily, even surviving Hi Jump Kicks. Versus Catlinne, his Psychic resistance comes in handy despite his bad Special Defense. Needless to say, having a Dragon resist is super useful against the champion.
    Additional Comments: Contrary to what others have said, I found Aron very useful on my run. Its array of resistances was really valuable to the rest of my team, and it always packed a punch between its two STABs. I can see it has a few downfalls, namely how troublesome special attacks become in the later stages of the game, its low speed, and competition from Magnemite, but I'd say its a solid Pokemon that requires no babying and pulls its weight.

    [​IMG]
    Flygon: - Low Tier
    Availability: Slightly before the 4th gym
    Stats: Trapinch's Attack is great, but his defenses are ass. Vibrava isn't much better. Flygon has solid stats, but only after a grueling 45 levels.
    Typing: Pure Ground is alright and Ground / Dragon is really solid. Still, it doesn't get many offensive options to utilize this typing with.
    Movepool: Trapinch comes with Bulldoze and learns Rock Slide shortly afterwords. That's really impressive for that time in the game. However, that's the best it does. You're stuck with Bulldoze and Earth Power as your only decent STAB options until Dragon Claw rolls around at level 55
    Major Battles: Trapinch is fantastic versus the 3rd gym, but really mediocre for every gym afterwords. Flygon can do some damage to the champ with Dragon Claw, but it will often be trading KOs.
    Additional Comments: If I had known about the braviary on Route 4, I would have picked that as my designated flyer. Trapinch and Vibrava are way too frail and Flygon isn't really worth the weight. Steer clear of these guys, don't let their awesome aesthetics fool you like they did me!
  14. Slobroking

    Slobroking

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    Yeah Flygon is one of my favorites but he's such a disappointment. No Earthquake/Dragon Claw TM, or Outrage move tutor pre-e4 is a joke. I tried to use a special sweeper with Earth Power and Dragon Pulse but it was far too weak.
  15. rocky505

    rocky505

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    You can rely on dig/bulldoze until you get EQ. I know that when its a vibrava that training gets horrendous because of that atk drop and def. Just stick Draco meteor on it(is it pre E4?) along with dig/bulldoze, rock slide and maybe fire punch.
  16. Gokuzbu

    Gokuzbu

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    Just want to say I agree with everyone that Magnemite is top tier

    Using Magneton, Lucario, Drillbur and Vaporeon right now and he is MVP.
  17. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    I'm going to re-post and post my thoughts about the Pokémon I used in my japanese White 2 run. I'll get my english Black 2 today, so I'll get 6 more Pokémon out of that.

    Ducklett: Mid Tier
    Availability:
    It's available relatively early, after the fourth gym and is a 100% encounter.
    Stats: As a Ducklett, this Pokémon survives on its high HP stats to hit back, though not as hard as many other Water-types. However, when it evolves, it becomes much different. Swanna is really fast and has good mixed offensive stats to take control. Unfortunately, Swanna is really frail and won't survive many powerful attacks.
    Typing: Water is always a good offensive typing; however, when paired with a Flying-typing, Water's defensive capabilities are really hampered. Its STAB have perfect coverage, as the only Pokémon that resist both Water and Flying is Empoleon.
    Movepool: Man does this Pokémon get good moves. Ducklett has Bubblebeam when you catch it, and shortly after that it learns both Air Slash and Roost. Not long after the fifth gym, you get hold onto Surf, which means Swanna will deal heavy damage to the weak opposition. Swanna also learns Brave Bird at a decent level to give it mixed properties; it can also learn Ice Beam to deal more damage to certain Pokémon, but it comes late.
    Major Battles: Ducklett shined against Clay to some degree. It can easily handle Krokorok and Sandslash, though Excadrill can definately be a hard nut to crack. Skyla is not dangerous at all either, as Swanna will hit all of her Pokémon for good damage. Drayden and Marlon are two huge roadblocks. Their Pokémon are not hit super effectively by its moves which coupled with their bulk means that Swanna will have trouble KOing them. Swanna frailty will also be apparent here. For the same reason, Swanna doesn't shine against most ofthe E4 Pokémon either.
    Additional Comments: Swanna is a mixed bag. It is fast and hits kinda hard, while it can go mixed. Though it is frail and can't take many powerful hits from its opponent, espacially late-game. But with perfect coverage throughout the game, and powerful moves on top of that, it's still pretty great.
  18. Wrave

    Wrave

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    Azuril for Mid Tier. It is available early, you get Frustration (and later Return) for an easy STAB and it will evolve fairly early. Once it evolves into Marill, it is one level off from evolving into Azumaril and then it gets Aqua Tail. Using a combination of Aqua Tail/Return/Dig/Filler really gets the job done. And it is easily trainable due to the Desert having a battle with a Breeder and Darumaka/Sandile running around. Only problem is that it is fighting for that Water spot with Oshawatt and once the late game comes, Oshawatt has it outmatched.
  19. TruthfulCake

    TruthfulCake

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    First post. Will go by my White 2 experience so far.

    Azurill for High/Top tier.

    Pros:
    + Early availability. Floccesy Ranch with 15% encounter rate means that you will most likely encounter at least one before the first gym.
    + Pure Power - 'nuff said. Also, with TM21 obtainable in the same place you can catch it, it has access to a 70+ base power STAB move immediately.
    + Early evolution. Happiness evolution is ridiculously easy in BW2, and once it evolves, it is usually just 1-2 levels away from evolving into its final stage.
    + Coverage. Starts with STAB Frustration, gets Work Up + Water Gun/BubbleBeam and Return for wide normal coverage. Once it evolves it is several level away from Aqua Tail, and Dig is obtainable soon after. Ice Punch tutor in Driftveil.
    + Fast growth. Needs little experience to level up.
    + Respectable bulk. Water-typing, 100/80/80 defenses as Azumarill.
    + Good Gym performance. With the exception of Elesa, whom you can handle with Dig or Ground-types, it performs well. From Clay onward, Aqua Tail + Ice Punch owns the three consecutive Gyms.
    + Utility. If you decide that Return OHKOs are overkill and Aqua Tail is a little unreliable, it learns Waterfall and Strength afterward, saving you the need to find a Water-type HM slave. Learns Surf too - Waterfall, Strength, and Ice Punch are all it needs with Pure Power.

    Cons:
    - Slow. Doesn't stop Magnemite from dominating the game, though, as you earn speed EVs and the AI Pokemon keep having zero. Also, Quick Claw in-game for an average of one first-strike every four turns.
    - 50% chance of encountering an obese version that hits like a girl and has overkill resistances to things it already resists anyway.

    My experience with Azumarill in-game has been positive so far. It feels like BW Lillipup all over again, except with more coverage and better typing.
  20. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    I did remember a statement that someone made about holding off Trapinch's evolution to Vibrava until L44 because Vibrava is seriously shit.

    That said though, I think there's really no difference from Floccesy Azurill and Route 6 Marill (outside of the former being able to fight Cheren... i think?).
    Azurill performs fine against Cheren but so do most of the stuff you have at that point (and frankly you should be able to beat him quickly because he spams work up)
    Azurill struggles to do much against Roxie because Koffing and Whirlipede both have excellent defense and Azurill does pittance with Bubble.
    Neither is Burgh giving it any favours: Swadloon and Leavanny have decent defense, outrun, and destroys an evolved Azurill with Razor Leaf. Otherwise uh... he still destroys it? The best you can really do is overlevel Azurill until L23 for Bounce, which has the side-effect of forcing you to miss out on Aqua Tail until the PWT.
    I'm pretty sure Azurill/Marill has no business with Elesa anyway.

    So here comes Route 6 Marill, coming at L25 with a 5% encounter chance, with Double-Edge and Aqua Tail available immediately, and you can dump Ice Punch and a Rare Candy onto it immediately for a L26 powerhouse with crazy Attack. The only other con is having to work with low-ish happiness for quite a while, but you have Double-Edge anyway so it's not that bad. Throw in Superpower later, and you basically have mini-Darmanitan.

    High
    I think. Honestly, the best way to deal with Marill is not to deal with the shit that is Azurill, because Azurill really does absolutely nothing of notable importance from the time you get it until Route 6 Marill, while still being outclassed by Lillipup earlygame, with an absolutely wrecking Leer + Frustration combo (and other things including not being outrun by things early on without bubble spam and not sucking without huge power).

    Flocessy Azurill just plain sucks, period. use route 6 marill.
  21. Lucchini

    Lucchini

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    312
    Posting to say that neither Mandibuzz nor Braviary can be caught before you beat Burgh (Colress doesn't appear until you have three badges). A pity I guess, because both would find application in that particular gym (in the next one, not nearly as much...).
  22. Serious_Business

    Serious_Business

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    56
    I think Drapion belongs in Low tier. He comes late, shortly after the 6th gym, and while he's never particularly weak, he isn't very strong either. He has a wide movepool, and decent Attack and Speed, but his moves have low power. Now, he filled a need for my team, in that he had a STAB Dark type attack for Ghosts and Psychics, and he performed great against that. However, I didn't find myself wanting to use him much until Victory Road and the Elite 4, and he did great there. But in the meantime, he provides little besides a non-STAB Ice Fang against the Opelucid Gym. Toxic Spikes could have been a neat utility move, but there's just no one worth using it against. Overall, he just came late and was thoroughly mediocre until Victory Road. I did not try using Hone Claws, though. I found myself wishing he had Swords Dance quite often.

    On a side note, about Azurill, mine didn't evolve until level 21. I was pretty careful with training, I tried not to let it die, but I think this was a result of ditching my starter for i as soon as it could handle itself in combat. Even still though, it could contribute perfectly fine with Return and Dig coming off it's ridiculous attack, until I could access the move relearner.
  23. goldursaring

    goldursaring

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    46
    I'd mention Vibrava as being available at Reversal Mountain, because in many ways it is a different option than raising Trapinch (which can be a pain). It has a few cons (not having the Pokemon before Elesa, and not having access to Crunch), but people might want to consider it.

    It comes at level 38, it's pretty easy to get if you're willing to use a Repel, and can be trained quickly to evolve into Flygon before the next gym.
  24. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,615
    Vibrava itself is still a pain to train and Trapinch's best matchup is Elesa anyway (Flygon still has issues with Drayden because his offense is mediocre).

    i'm sure Braviary still wrecks things from Elesa onwards, since he really just needs to get the Return TM (and optionally, Rock Smash). Braviary's bad against Elesa but he works for the remainder of the gyms...
  25. Slobroking

    Slobroking

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,203
    Just noticed Braviary doesn't get Acrobatics which kind of sucks. On the upside, that leaves room for Fly and Strength, so atleast it's a good HM slave. Still top tier all the way imo, because as said above, all it really needs is Return, and occasionally Fly and Rock Smash/Superpower.

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