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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Just started my copy of Black 2. Going to be playing mainly with Tepig evo line/Sunkern/Azurill from Flocessy Ranch and then Dunsparce. I will likely add N's Zorua and then anything which takes my fancy in the last slot.

    I'll probably update this post or write another depending on how well it goes, I'm in Cheren's Gym at the moment so I can't really comment on much. So far Sunkern hasn't been great, but we will see.
  2. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    Since I just finished the game, I'll post a couple of entries for you guys to nitpick about~

    Growlithe - Mid Tier (Maybe Low?)
    -Availability : Just before fighting Roxie, take a slight detour down south,
    -Stats : It used to hold the title for highest BST of any non-Legendary Fire type Pokemon (which is now held by Volcarona), and the stats are all somewhat evenly distributed, with attacking stats being more favored than defensive stats. Growlithe's Attack and Special Attack are only ten points apart, so it makes a decent Mixed Attacker, if you're looking for that. 110 Attack and 100 Special Attack is just amazing for something encountered so early in the game, and Intimidate makes its only passable 80 Base Defense seem a lot bigger.
    -Movepool: It's somewhat shallow for most of the game, especially if you evolve Growlithe as soon as you can. Arcanine is extremely reliant on TMs if you evolve it right away, otherwise it gets just enough to get it by. If you're patient, you can have moves like Flamethrower, Crunch, and Flare Blitz. Arcanine gets Extremespeed and Thunder Fang (by Relearner), which Growlithe can't get, but that's it. Growlithe itself got a new move by level up, which can be handy. That move is Outrage, formerly a Breeding only move. It also gets Dragon Pulse by Move Tutor. Intimidate is the preferred ability on Growlithe, to not only give itself a bit more staying power, but also aid its team by switching in to trigger the effect, then switching to your preferred teammate.
    -Major Battles: Growlithe comes in handy in the battles against Zinzolin simply because he packs Ice types. He's also really useful against Burgh, who only has Dwebble to counter it with. Colress has Steel types for Arcanine to eat for breakfest, though the Magnezone will give most anything problems. Ghetsis still has his Cofagrigus for Arcanine to munch on. Arcanine can be handy to deal with Shauntel's Cofagrigus if you don't want to worry about Mummy (For example, wanting a Moxie Scrafty sweep). It also serves as a decent check to Grimsley's Bisharp. Other than that, Intimidate is really handy to help nerf some of the physical threats your team may have, as there are plenty of foes in-game that don't pack, and if you wait for Crunch,
    -Additional Comments: It's not that Arcanine is bad, it's just that the Fire types in Unova are just so good. It has very stiff competition with Darmanitan, who's found just a little further along and you'll likely evolve Darmanitan. Or you could wait for Chandelure? That's not even taking into account that Emboar is one of the better starters in the game. There's also the Level 35 Volcarona it has to contend with. It does have its niche, though. It's one of two available Fire types that can go mixed fairly effectively, and it does have better bulk than Chandelure and Darmanitan.


    Scraggy - High Tier
    -Availability : You'll find the Pants Lizard in the Desert Resort, along with all of the other really popular Fifth Generation Pokemon. Have fun finding it though, as it's fairly rare.
    -Stats : Scrafty's an oddball. It's got terrible base 65 HP, but terrific Base 115 Defense and Special Defense. 90 Base Attack is somewhat low for this generation, but Moxie fixes that right up. Speed is somewhat low, and its Special Attack stat is at a laughable 45; don't plan on using it as a Special Attacker.
    -Movepool: The Pants Lizard gets a metric ton of useful moves for it to use. High Jump Kick combined with the Wide Lens makes the chance of missing with this devestating 130 Base Power Fighting type move a mere 1%. Faint Attack and Crunch are both great to have along, as some of the later trainers like to use Double Team and Minimize (That One Clefable...). Ice Punch, Drain Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt, Outrage. If you have the Shards, these moves will deliver. Particularly Ice Punch, as it kills Dragons (AKA, most of Iris' team) dead.
    -Major Battles: Scraggy doesn't have too much trouble tackling the Gym Trainers in Elesa's Gym, as they tend to have low Defense. Excadrill and Krokorok just beg to be HJK by Scraggy, and with only one boost, its possible to take down Sandslash as well. Stay away from Skyla at all costs. Ice Punch will get Scrafty through Drayden's Gym and help him in the Gym Battle, though he might need some help. The encounters with Zinzolin are pathetically easy with Scrafty due to HJK shenanigans. Colress has Steel types for Scrafty to punt, and Ghetsis still has his underleveled Hydreigon (which lost two levels?) as well. Scrafty absolutely rips through the Elite Four, dominating both Grimsley and Caitlin with STAB HJK and Crunch (though Grim's own Scrafty might be bothersome). Leading with Scrafty against Iris allows for Scrafty to start a Moxie Sweep on her, as she likes to bring her Druddigon out after you OHKO her Hydreigon (whom she starts the battle with)
    -Additional Comments: Scrafty is simply the best Fighting type in the game. No questions asked. It hits brutally hard with High Jump Kick, and with Moxie, gets even stronger every time it knocks something out. It excels in most of the major fights it can participate in, much like Magnezone does, and it has access to an almost perfect accuracy 130 Base Power move (when coupled with Wide Lens) Dark/Fighting is a terrific defensive combination, and it has the defenses to abuse it with. It's only let down by its somewhat poor HP and low speed, and unlike Black and White, it's pretty rare in this game.
  3. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    Got my game today

    Going to do

    Tepig / Liligant / Starmie / Jolteon or Joltik / N'Zorua / Flygon as my flyer
  4. TruthfulCake

    TruthfulCake

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    I don't know, I don't think I ground too much with Azurill, but by the time I reached Burgh, it has become an Azumarill, which easily survived a Razor Leaf from a Leavanny 3 levels higher (although granted, I went with Snivy and didn't have Growlithe, which would be a more intuitive choice against Burgh). The game offers plenty of opportunity to train Azurill, from the Floccesy Ranch to the Castelia Sewers, and it shouldn't be hard to get it to naturally evolve before level 21, what with the amount of running back and forth you do in Castelia, or between Aspertia and Floccesy.

    As for the Azurill/Marill comparison, true, I guess Marill fulfills all the criteria of being high-tier except for early availability. But one of the main advantages in getting an early Azurill is the head start in EV and happiness gain, which would make for a very devastating Return for levels to come. While it does not overly shine against the first few Gym Leaders, it absolutely wrecks the wild Pokemon and normal Trainers early on. But if those are not important to the player, I guess having a Pure Power Route 6 Marill still pays off till endgame, since the next few Gyms are where Azumarill shines.

    I guess the inconsistency of the level at which it evolves might be a detractor. What I did with my Azurill was, I used it sparingly while running around according to the game script because it gains level fast anyway, and I wanted to prevent overleveling it before it evolves into Marill. It paid off - got Azumarill by the time of Castelia.
  5. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    There's really no advantage for 'early Azurill's Return' because Marill comes with Double-Edge with hits harder in exchange for recoil (and when you're further in you can just swap it for Return at no cost). The EV gain isn't really significant because you need to have high EVs in order to really show variance in stats (L25 needs ~16 EVs to show 1 point of difference for 2 given Azumarill, so unless Azumarill was force fed in Attack a lot, unlikely without massive grinding, there's really no difference).

    One of the biggest issues Azurill has is that it's start simply isn't very good, and Lillipup can Take Down around Roxie while Azurill is still stuck with Frustration/Return. Route 6 Marill comes ready-made to destroy the gym, and is basically the same as Azurill afterwards without the earlygame sucking stage.
  6. Afti

    Afti

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    Oh, right. Used this on my last run, and it surprised me. It's probably outclassed by Petilil, but that doesn't make it a bad choice at all.

    Roselia: - High Tier
    Availability: Early - available as soon as Nimbasa, and easy to find if you make the slight detour to Lostlorn Forest/Route 16.
    Stats: Due to Eviolite, Roselia really fills separate roles before and after evolution. Before evolving, it's a slow, bulky powerhouse - 100 Special Attack at a time in the game where most of the other available Pokémon have yet to reach their final stage of evolution is great. You can obtain a Shiny Stone not long after Clay, though, and that changes Roselia's role - as Roserade, it's a fast (for ingame) and very, very powerful sweeper/sleep-inducer.
    Typing: Grass/Poison. This could be better; while the Grass typing works well for giving it a potent STAB Giga Drain, it doesn't get much out of Poison STAB.
    Movepool: Somewhat small, but it does the job. Wild Roselia will come with Giga Drain and GrassWhistle; these are the most important moves it gets. Giga Drain is your main form of offense, and can do stupid amounts of damage to things that don't resist it while restoring damage Roselia has taken; GrassWhistle is inaccurate, but it's still a sleep move, which means it's got a 50% chance at putting a Pokémon out of commission for the rest of the match. The AI doesn't switch, for the most part; get something sleeping and you can take exactly as long as you need to. The other options are up to you - Leech Seed provides a boost when taking down a bulky foe and lets Roserade do something useful if it needs to sacrifice itself; Venoshock is secondary STAB that works well with Poison Point; Toxic Spikes is okay, but really should only be used with Venoshock; lastly, Shadow Ball is only available late-game, but finally gives Roserade some coverage options.
    Major Battles: Roselia can do just fine against Elesa if you watch out for Flame Charge/Acrobatics, and can take Clay on its own. After that, it doesn't do so well against Skyla or Drayden, both of whom tend to use Pokémon that resist its primary STAB - but it comes back with a vengeance for the fight with Marlon. Don't even try using it for anything more than random sleeps and death fodder against Team Plasma/Colress/Kyurem/Ghetsis. After that, though - Roserade's Poison typing finally does something useful it letting it take hits against Marshal, and it can get KOs against both Grimsley and Shauntal. Against Iris, the only thing Giga Drain will get you much results against is Lapras - and it's an Ice type, so that's not a good idea.
    Additional Comments: For choice of ability, Natural Cure is generally better. Poison Point makes Venoshock occasionally deal a decent amount of damage, but Natural Cure and Giga Drain combine to make it an incredibly self-sufficient Pokémon that's only limited by available PP.
  7. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    For important fights, Toxic Spikes + Venoshock isn't so powerful ?
  8. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    the exact opposite? enemies rarely carry any poison types outside of garbodor, which is limited to team plasma... TSpikes + venoshock is a legit strat imo
  9. Raikaria

    Raikaria

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    I actually wouldn't object to making a 'God Tier' just for Magnemite. Seriously that thing trivializes 5 Gyms and 3 of the E4 by itself, and it's only BAD match-ups are Clay and Marshall.

    Koffing: - Middle Tier
    Availability: Virbank Complex, prior to the 2nd badge
    Stats: Koffing's main area is it's defense, with it being pretty slow and weak to special attacks. It has somewhat decent offenses, with 60/65, for early game. Later on, this trend continues when Koffing evolves.
    Typing: Poision Typing is a mixed bag. Horrible on the offense, pretty solid on the defense. Koffing's focus is defense. However, the Poision typing does give Koffing the ability to ruin Burgh. Worth noting is that due to Levitate, Koffing is only weak to Psychic attacks.
    Movepool: By level up, Koffing's movepool is average at best. Clear Smog is picked up somewhat early, so you can erase stat boosts, and Sludge is learnt at Lv 18. Koffing also learns moves such as Gyro Ball, and, of course, sacrificial moves, such as Selfdestruct. However, Koffing's movepool is far better when you factor in TM's.

    Venoshock is worth special mention, as it grants Koffing a Base 130 STAB against a Poisioned target as early as after the 2nd Gym, making up for it's sub-par offensive stats. To make most use out of this, be sure to catch Koffing below Level 12, otherwise it would have forgotten Poison Gas.

    Koffing also gets many TM's, such as Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, and Shadow Ball, allowing him to be surprisingly diverse and hit his targets for their weaknesses.
    Major Battles: Koffing is pretty useless against Roxie, as she also uses Poision Types, although Koffing can very easily buy time for you to heal your team. Burgh is easily destroyed by Koffing, with his Swadloon and Levianny being useless against it. Koffing is solid but doesn't shine in all the other gyms, although it is stronger against gyms that are primarily physical than special.

    In the Elite 4, Koffing is a mixed bag, beating Marshall easily, but being useless against Caitlin. If you have taught Koffing Shadow Ball, he also can do work against Shauntal.
    Additional Comments: Koffing doesn't shine in any particular part of the game, except against Burgh, but is a solid, dependable tank for your team at all points in the game due to his single weakness, combined with an immunity and resistances to Bug, Grass, Fighting and Poision.
  10. Son_of_Shadoo

    Son_of_Shadoo

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    Early access to the Poison Gas/Venoshock combo is worth mentioning here I think, particularly against tankier mons.
  11. Raikaria

    Raikaria

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    I did mention it.
  12. SpenName

    SpenName

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    Hey, Just want to know what would be a better recommendation to use ingame, Volcarona or Emboar? I would use Darumaka but I am trying to stay away from ones I already used in Black. Any suggestions for which one would be a better choice?
  13. Manic Martini

    Manic Martini

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    After seeing more and more people make posts about various pokemon, I realize I was definitely being too harsh on Zubat. It's not Low, it's Mid.
  14. Lucchini

    Lucchini

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    Tepig is a starter so he's useful from the very start. If you focus you exp on Tepig alone before the first gym, he'll have the moves and stats needed to take on all of Cheren's Pokemon.

    Volcarona comes a bit later, requires a detour from progressing the storyline, and has movepool issues unless you tutor it some moves.

    I suppose both are fun to use, though.
  15. BowlArt64

    BowlArt64

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    Volcarona is actually pretty sweet. Everyone should have the shards for Signal Beam, and it only takes four of them, so you can still have enough for an elemental punch if you get a couple from dust clouds or the PWT. Signal Beam kills everything, and even Fire Spin gets you by until Lacunosa and Fire Blast, where it really steps it up. Psychic (which is right above Undella) is adequate as a coverage move, and my filler is Will-O-Wisp. I'm only at Opelucid right now, but it's done its fair share of work, even if it's not that great in Skyla's gym. Drayden gets hit fairly hard by Signal Beam and risks getting burnt, so it's not totally useless there, and Fire types should stay away from Marlon anyway. Quiver Dance isn't out of the question for the E4, coming at lv. 59.

    Basically, the idea is that movepool issues don't really matter if you spend the four Red Shards. Coming after the fifth gym is a bit of a disadvantage, but it's overlevelled and you're still getting to train it for 20+ levels during the story.

    I'm using Starmie / Volc / Roserade / Evio Magneton / Krook / Braviary, and I might write something up on them when I finish the story. So far they're all looking to be High at least, but that might change.
  16. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    Koffing is easily bulky enough to tackle most of Grimsley's Pokemon (bar the Bisharp, obviously) using Toxicstalling. My Level 50 Weezing just sat around and chugged Full Restores while waiting for Scrafty and Krookidile to die. Is it a viable strategy, or is it too luck based to count? I'd also comment on Weezing not being able to get rid of Toxic Spikes on its own, unlike most other Poison types (they appear more often than you think)

    The last few levels Koffing gets are the most painful, though. It's a pretty big problem, since most of the things you'll be fighting will be Special Attackers at that point for some reason. Late late late T-Bolt and Flamethrower really hurt Koffing, too (you literally get T-Bolt just before you exit Victory Road)
  17. Raikaria

    Raikaria

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    Got time to write up another:

    Magby: - High Tier
    Availability: Virbank Complex, prior to the 2nd badge [Black 2 Exclusive]
    Stats: Magby is a mixed sweeper, with a slight focus on special attacks.
    Typing: Fire meets stiff competition in Unova, with Growlithe and Tepig both being able to go mixed like the Magby line can, and also having wide movepools.
    Movepool: Magby's level-up movepool is mostly Fire-type attacks, with a few exceptions, like Clear Smog and Faint Attack.

    However, looking beyond this, Magby's movepool is pretty wide, with Thunderpunch from tutors, as well as various fighting-type attacks, and Psychic. Evolution into Magmortar adds even more moves, such as Thunderbolt and Earthquake.

    Major Battles: Magby has good match-ups against Roxie and Burgh, and can hold it's own against Elesa. It takes a back seat for the following gyms, however, outside of it's coverage moves, due to type disadvanatges.

    Despite not doing too great against the remaining Gyms, Magby's wide movepool, and high power allows it to be useful in general throughout the game, and has some standout moments, such as against Colress.

    Additional Comments:
    Magby can take two routes. It can evolve all the way into Magmortar, or remain as a Magmar and make use of Evolite to be bulkier.

    Magmortar has a wider TM movepool than Magmar, and higher offensive stats, but is slower. Magmar has lower attacking stats, and a thinner movepool, but is bulkier due to evolite, and faster. Both options are useable.

    It is the abilty to hit hard with massive coverage as Magmortar, or turn into an Evolite tank and still dish out high damage that makes Magby so useful.
  18. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
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    Completed the game last night.

    I used almost the same team as TheMantyke... anyway, my team was Floatzel (who I went over), and Serperior, Scolipede, and Arcanine (I agree with him on everything he said, although Arcanine may be High Tier because Extreemespeed is REALLY useful)

    EDIT: Yeah, Arcanine is pretty useful now that I think about it. Don't wait until it learns Crunch and Outrage and Flare Blitz and just evolve it at level 34. It learns Flamethrower then, you evolve it, and then it learns Extreemespeed, which is awesome. Arcanine's Special Attack is 100, which is decent. There is a Fire Stone hidden in Desert Resort too.

    So my other two members were Beeheyeem and Gigalith. I'll get into detail later, but I think Beheeyem should definetly be Low Tier and Gigalith should be High Tier. If you don't evolve Boldore its definetly Low Tier.

    EDIT:
    Elgyem: - Low Tier
    Availability:
    Celestial Tower, right before Gym 6
    Stats: Great Special Attack, Super Slow, not really that bulky
    Typing: Psychic
    Movepool: Not very good. It learns Psychic at level 39, but until then you are stuck with Zen Headbutt + Hidden Power, or Psybeam if you get a Heart Scale. TMs for Trick Room and Thunderbolt though
    Major Battles: Ghetsis's Toxicroak and Marshall. I swept Catilin with Psychic + Calm Mind by setting up against Musharna too.
    Additional Comments: The only reason I used this thing was that I wanted to try something new. Sigilyph is a lot better and Reuniclus is also better even though it is mediocre too. You do get a Trick Room TM before the 7th Gym (which I missed...) and you get Thunderbolt (which I forgot to give it...), which is useful, and stops it from being completely outclassed in-game. Otherwise, it is worse than others.

    Gigalith: - High Tier
    Availability: Relic Path before Gym 3
    Stats: Ridiculous Attack, Super Slow, but really physically bulky with a decent amount of special bulk.
    Typing: Rock is good
    Movepool: A bunch of strong Rock moves that come at pretty good times.
    Major Battles: Pretty Good. Does good against Burgh and Skyla, OHKOs Elesa's Emolga (even if its a Boldore), but it is bad against the E4, Clay, and Marlon.
    Additional Comments: Sturdy is awesome. Also, even though it is a Rock-type, if you bring it out against what it is equipped to handle, it cannot be beat. Early game it is an absolute monster but late game it loses a bit of its shine. Regardless, at what it does, it is really good at it, and it is super powerful.

    Boldore has the above qualities except Swanna demolishes it and it is just not good enough.
  19. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Oh my god... did anyone notice that you can abuse the pokemon breeder on Route 4 to raise the traded liligent as high as you freaking want?? (Drillbur + Marril, and she'll battle you any number of times)
  20. Manic Martini

    Manic Martini

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    I took the route of Magmar with Eviolite, so perhaps Magmortar is in another category, but I definitely thought Magmar was solidly Mid Tier. It's definitely no Darmanitan. Magby is stuck with Ember/Fire Spin for STAB until level 22 (about 10 levels; not awful, but certainly annoying) and it's really frail until it hits an evolution (frail enough that I wouldn't call it great against Roxie). Flame Body+Eviolite (and even WoW if you want) is pretty nifty at times though.

    If Darumaka is High Tier, Magby is definitely a tier below it.

    Not sure how Magmortar fares differently, though, so perhaps they need to be tiered separately.
  21. Lucchini

    Lucchini

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    This, + Chargestone Cave being accessible prior to Gym 5 (Clay).
  22. azureAngelic

    azureAngelic

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    may as well throw in my cents regarding the team i used ingame, currently training to take on gym 7

    Growlithe: Middle Tier
    Availability: Early on, after the first Gym.
    Stats: Respectable all-around, no real glaring issues.
    Typing: Fire isn't necessarily bad, though it goes through a rough spot late-game where there isn't all that much weak to it.
    Movepool: Gets Fire Fang early on, but has to wait until level 45 Flare Blitz to get a better physical Fire attack. At the same time it gets Flamethrower and Heat Wave and both are more than usable. What makes it so great is the lategame movelist, though, with both Crunch and Outrage (!!!) granting excellent type coverage. The biggest problem is you have to hold off on evolving it to get any of it's good attacks, and getting a Fire Stone might be a problem.
    Major Battles: As mentioned it falls off late game; Burgh is easy, but Clay and (presumably) Marlon give it problems. The rest aren't necessarily easy nor hard.
    Additional Comments: Really, Growlithe is just sort of in the middle. Good but not amazing stats, a movepool that starts out fine but doesn't pick up until lategame, neutral against most of the gyms.

    Roselia: Middle Tier
    Availability: A tiny bit later then I'd like but pre-gym 4 certainly isn't the worst timing.
    Stats: A good special attacker by all means, though a tiny bit fragile.
    Typing: Grass/Poison is unoriginal as hell but it works fairly well, with a relative lack of Psychic types to eat Roselia alive.
    Movepool: Roselia's biggest problem is that it only learns Grass attacks. That said, the second Gym's TM is Venoshock, so by the time you get it you already have access to a good Poison attack for it. Said Grass attacks tend to be surprisingly good, going from a somewhat-early Giga Drain to Petal Dance to Energy Ball. It also gains Leech Seed and Synthesis, and can learn Cut for the two or so small trees in Unova, so only having two attacks isn't necessarily horrible.
    Major Battles: Roselia shows up just in time to wall Elesa's (non-Emolga) team, after which Clay's gym is a free exp buffet. It falls off for Skyla and Drayden, but stands well against Marlon, especially if you kept Giga Drain.
    Additional Comments: Would probably be High Tier if it came just a little bit earlier, didn't need a stone to evolve and learned any other non-Grass moves. Poison Sting as it's only non-TM Poison STAB is kind of painful.

    Trapinch: Low/Middle Tier
    Availability: After the third Gym, which isn't too bad, especially since the fourth Gym is Electric.
    Stats: As Trapinch, it has acceptable Attack and enough bulk to not die to everything. Once it's fully evolved, Flygon is more than acceptable, with a balanced yet high stat spread.
    Typing: Ground/Dragon is a pretty good type in-game, as long as you're smart enough to keep it away from Ice types. Which there aren't actually a lot of since Brycen got kicked off the gym roster.
    Movepool: Early on it gets Rock Slide and Bulldoze, which is enough to carry it to the midgame. When it gets there, though, it's stuck with only Dig and, even later, Crunch. On the bright side it gets Dragonbreath and Dragon Tail as soon as it evolves, and Dragon Claw naturally, but if you want to get Earthquake you have to hold off until a whopping level 55, long after it would normally have fully evolved, and then use Heart Scales for Dragon Claw. Unless you're masochistic enough to keep using the pitifully-slow Trapinch you aren't getting Earthquake until post-game.
    Major Battles: Trapinch shows up just in time for Elesa, but despite having a type advantage over Clay's Excadril he simply isn't bulky enough to handle it. Only one of Skyla's team members is easily taken by Rock Slide, by the time you get to Drayden he'll have to handle a mutual type weakness and most likely won't have anything better than the decreased-priority Dragon Tail, and he just doesn't have much to take Marlon with.
    Additional Comments: Trapinch is honestly a bizarre Pokemon. When you catch him, 100 base attack is devastating, but he's let down by his speed. The problem is, ironically, when he evolves: Vibrava loses the power of Trapinch, and although it gains enough speed to keep up, it simply doesn't have enough bulk to handle the midgame. Things get better when he fully evolves, but Trapinch and Flygon have the same attack, meaning unless Trapinch's speed is your biggest problem you might be better off leaving him unevolved until you get Earthquake (probably around the 8th gym level-wise), and do you really want a NFE on your team endgame?

    Mareep: Middle Tier
    Availability: One of the earliest, before the first Gym even.
    Stats: A bit on a low side all-around, and the Mareep line is uncharacteristically slow for Electric-types, but he still manages to get by.
    Typing: Pure Electric has ups and downs. The ups being STAB Discharge, the downs being dying to anything that even smells like dirt.
    Movepool: Offensively, Mareep's options are generally restricted to Electric attacks. Getting Electro Ball naturally midway through the game is a boon, and Discharge isn't bad at all. Once you're nearing the mid-lategame, Power Gem appears to give more type diversity, and even later Signal Beam shows up as well. When it comes to support, a VERY early Thunder Wave is delicious, and being one of the few Pokemon to get the +3 defense Cotton Guard is a definite advantage. The biggest fault is the pure Electric bend, and getting Thunderpunch on evolution to Ampharos is just silly. Remember when Ampharos could use Thunderpunch effectively with his stubby little arms? In GSC?
    Major Battles: For the most part Mareep does well. Cheren, Roxie and Burgh are all relatively neutral, Clay and Elesa are a brick wall, Skyla is utterly devastated, Drayden is problematic and Marlon is delicious fish. One thing to remember is that Thunder Wave can give Mareep an advantage over most neutral opponents.
    Additional Comments: Really, there are two big problems keeping Ampharos in middle tier. One, it's a bit slow. Two, it isn't Magnemite. Seriously, Magnemite just outclasses Mareep in most ways. Still, Amphy is just cool as hell.

    Heracross: Low/Middle Tier (Black only)
    Availability: Like Roselia, you can catch Heracross before the fourth gym. Not painfully late, not comfortably early.
    Stats: Being an unevolving Pokemon, Heracross comes packaged with excellent stats, including a beastly Attack and enough speed to use it.
    Typing: Bug/Fighting, although giving Heracross a critical Flying weakness, isn't actually that bad. Or rather, it wouldn't be, if...
    Movepool: Megahorn at level 46. That alone sums up everything wrong with Heracross. Granted, the rest of it's movepool is actually good. Brick Break and Close Combat at low-medium levels is excellent, and it even comes with Aerial Ace. Night Slash is available as well if you don't mind coughing up a Heart Scale at the PWT in Driftveil. That said, the biggest draw of Heracross is that it's a Bug/Fighting type, and it's capable of learning exactly two Bug-type attacks before the endgame: Megahorn at level 46 (around the seventh gym) and Struggle Bug via TM (a pathetically weak special attack). That's it. You get the X-Scissor TM before gym 5, but Heracross can't use the bloody thing. Without any STAB, a Bug typing is purely a downside, and when it comes to simply beating things to death with Fighting STAB Timburr comes earlier, has an arguably better movepool, lacks a 4x Flying weakness and does just as well.
    Major Battles: With the exception of Skyla, Heracross is pretty much neutral to everything. Not being resisted by Drayden is nice, and the type advantage over Clay's Excadril is welcome.
    Additional Comments: Seriously, if this thing could use the X-Scissor TM it would easily be high tier. As it stands, there's no reason to use Heracross over Timburr unless you REALLY need a kickass Bug STAB and don't mind waiting for it.

    Ducklett: High Tier
    Availability: Mid game, just a few feet from the fifth gym.
    Stats: Actually really good. Fast with enough attack and special attack to hit hard from both sides of the spectrum.
    Typing: Yes, it's Water/Flying. Yes, it has a 4x Electric weakness. But you get it AFTER the fourth Gym, and Electric Pokemon aren't especially common. Water and Flying are both useful STABs.
    Movepool: As soon as you catch it it has Bubblebeam and Aerial Ace, which alone is enough to use (remember, it's attack and special attack are the same!). Just a few levels later it gets Air Slash and Roost, and in the lategame it picks up Brave Bird and Hurricane. Combine that with Surf compatibility and Swanna has everything it needs to work excellently. The problem is that even with TMs it'll never get out of the Water/Flying STAB rut, but neither of those are bad STABs anyway.
    Major Battles: You get it just before the Ground gym, where it excels, and it's neutral to every other gym going forward.
    Additional Comments: Seriously, this thing gets way too much hate for it's typing. If you don't mind waiting a little bit for it, Swanna is definitely a top-tier ingame Pokemon, Electric weakness be damned. It's just a shame it has to live with the reputation Pelipper gave Water/Flying Pokemon.
  23. Manic Martini

    Manic Martini

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Bug/Fighting is also pretty sweet for taking on Caitlin and Grimsley, on top of its typing resisting Marshal and having Shadow Claw for Shauntal if you wanted. Not to mention the Plasma Dark types and Corless.

    It also has access to Rockslide for Fighting/Rock coverage.

    Also, even before it gets Megahorn, the Bug typing does provide it with useful resistances to Ground, Grass, and Fighting, and it'll probably be using its Fighting STAB more anyway. I don't see how something that joins at that point with 125 Atk and even just STAB Brick Break alone that gets better moves as it levels up could ever be Low Tier.
  24. Lucchini

    Lucchini

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    312
    Yeah, you have to be kidding there. Megahorn at lv. 46 is very timely, and this is probably the only game when Heracross learns this move in time for the important battles (which is just about all the elites and probably the last gym or two). Besides the 4x weakness to flying, it's hard to understand what your problem with Heracross is.

    Also, with the Dowsing Machine, getting a Fire Stone in Desert Resort is a matter of seconds, not an issue at all.
  25. Raikaria

    Raikaria

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,311
    I can see where you're coming from. Darumaka, however, has it's own issues, such as pre-evolution it's accuracy is imperfect, and it's frail as hell, and it's not a mixed attacker like Magmar/Magmortar, and it's best moves are recoil.

    Honestly I had no problem raising Magby to Flame Burst.

    Maybe it's just my playstyle. Given a reliable tankier pokemon that can still dish out damage [Evolite Magmar] over a risky glass cannon [Darumaka line] I'll go with the former every time.

    Magmortar also has offenses on par with Darmitian, except it's mixed and has movepool out of it's rear. It's end/postgame is without a shadow of a doubt better, because Thunderbolt.

    Also, a happened to run into a Modest Magic Guard Siliglyph on my current run. Is it God-Tier in B/W2 like B/W? We shall see.

    @ Roselia: Lack of a Poison movepool without TM's is a moot point when you certainly have TM Venoshock by the time you get it.

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