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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    I'd like to reserve Magnemite, Oshawott and Darumaka.

    Opinion on the Limbo mons:

    L1
    Axew - No comment. Pretty much on the fence about this.
    Braviary - Top. Comes just before a gym that it trivialises, Defiant trolls all over random Intimidate Sandiles, Work Up for setup is good, STAB Return/Fly is golden. Really, it's all about Defiant trolling and the eventual Superpower access to kill steels (and even then you can still rock smash)

    L2
    Vaporeon - Again, no comment.
    Mienfoo - Decent fighting-type mon, but it's really... just there. Kills Plasma grunts and what not. Regen U-turn gives it a somewhat unique niche though, so High.

    L3
    No comments for any.

    L4
    Sunkern - Bottom: Sun Stone comes a bit late and Sunkern performs horribly at Roxie and Burgh anyway, and it's not really doing much against Cheren.
  2. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random Solves issues recursively
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    I can take Axew for you guys. I should have the write-up done in the morning.
  3. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Yes, much better. Thank you. You're free to reserve more if you so wish.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    After reading your posts, I've decided to make these changes:

    Moving Braviary to Top Tier

    Moving Mienfoo to Middle Tier

    Moving Sunkern to Bottom Tier

    Adding Magby (With trade) to Middle Tier; will be combined with Magby (No trade).

    If you guys disagree with these changes, speak up.

    Added the Zweilous, Sewaddle, Azurill, Zangoose, and Onix entries to the OP. Proofread etc. as well.

    EDIT: The reservations post has been updated as well. We're off to a good start.
  4. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    [​IMG]
    Name: Tepig
    Availability: Starter Level 5
    Stats: Bulky. It has a huge HP stat and can take all sorts of hits well. Has excellent Attack too at Base 123 and usable Special Attack at 100.
    Typing: Fire and then Fire/Fighting. Great for offense, not so great on the defence. There is a large amount of flying types and you might be struggling against some of the birds.
    Movepool: Gets what it needs. Flame Charge boosts its Speed, Flamethrower is usable and it can get Return/Brick Break from TMs. It can also learn Strength.
    Major Battles: Does pretty well against half the gyms, the other half he can issues with. Elesa, Clay, Skyla and Marlon all give him trouble due to Flying-, Ground- and Water- moves. Caitlin can give him problems in the Elite 4 as well, but the others will take a fair bit from his Fire moves.
    Additional Comments: Emboar is a pretty strong bulky attacker. Flame Charge is almost a must to patch up his rather mediocre speed, and with STAB and his Attack stat isn't a wasted moveslot.

    I'll nick Dunsparce too! :P
  5. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    I'd like to reserved Sigilyph, Emolga, and Onix (without trade).
  6. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random Solves issues recursively
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    Odds are I probably did something wrong, but here goes...
    [​IMG]
    Name: Axew
    Availability: Mid-Late Game. Mistralton Cave (Requires Surf), 20% Chance.
    Stats: Average bulk and a mediocre Special Attack, but above average Speed and a whopping base 147 Attack to boot in its final form.
    Typing: Dragon is a good typing, with excellent neutral coverage and nifty resistances to Fire/Water/Grass/Electric. Ice/Dragon weaknesses can hurt, however.
    Movepool: Great offensive movepool with good physical coverage (Notably Bug/Dragon/Flying/Ghost/Ground), but the real gems lie in Dragon Claw and Dragon Dance—learned at level 28 and level 32 respectively—allowing it to sweep most teams given the opportunity, which tends to come often.
    Major Battles: There is no real horrible matchup for Axew in the game. Against most major battles, it is a simple matter of using Dragon Dance 1-2 times against an appropriate opponent, then sweeping the opposition. Otherwise, you can just make use of Axew's excellent power to deal a heavy dent against those you cannot reliably use Dragon Dance against.
    Additional Comments: Mold Breaker should always be used over the inconsistent Rivalry, as it allows Axew to OHKO the several Sturdy Pokemon in BW2. Also, one thing to take into account when using Axew is that raising it is difficult in the beginning due to its late evolutions (level 37 then 47), and a slow experience curve.

    EDIT: Personally, Axew should only be High Tier, mainly because of availability, rarity, the fact that it is not the easiest thing in the world to raise, & that Dragon Dance is rather sketchy strategy to rely on.
  7. Tyranitarphantom

    Tyranitarphantom

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    I've got these two ready now.

    Sandshrew (open)
    [​IMG]
    Name: Sandshrew
    Availability: Fairly early, caught on Route 4
    Stats: Decent. It's Attack and Defense are rather high, but the rest of it's stats aren't very good, including it's mediocre HP and low Special stats and Speed
    Typing: Ground-type is a mixed bag. Offensively, it's amazing, hitting 5 types for super-effective damage, with only two types resisting it (and one immunity). Defensively, Ground is somewhat poor, with it's weaknesses very common, and it's resistances much less common.
    Movepool: Good, it gets Swords Dance and powerful STAB moves by level-up. It appreciates being taught Rock Slide to augment it's coverage, but the Rock Slide TM is easy to get, so this shouldn't be an issue.
    Major Battles: It completely laughs at Elesa, and is also useful against Colress. Other than those two, it doesn't shine anywhere in particular, but it doesn't really lose to anyone except Burgh and Marlon.
    Additional Comments: It evolves very early, and doesn't really need any special treatment to be effective. The main reason Sandshrew is Low Tier is because it's completely outclassed by Sandile and Drilbur, who become available at the same time as Sandshrew, but have much better stats and wider movepools.


    Growlithe (open)
    [​IMG]
    Name: Growlithe
    Availability: Early, caught in Virbank Complex
    Stats: Overall very good. It's Attack and Special Attack are equally usable, and it's fairly fast too. It's also quite bulky, with good HP and average Defenses
    Typing: Fire is a decent type in this game. It hits a good amount of Pokemon for super-effective damage, but it's weak to Water, Ground, and Rock, all of which are very abusable weaknesses.
    Movepool: Poor overall, it learns nothing useful by level except STAB moves and Crunch (Extremespeed is cool, but isn't very useful). To get it's best physical STAB, Flare Blitz, you have to keep it as a Growlithe until Level 45, which sucks. It can't learn Wild Charge, it's best supplemental coverage, until Victory Road, at which point it's pointless. Thunder Fang is available, but is a rather poor move in general.
    Major Battles: It can be a good asset against Roxie, and it destroys Burgh and Colress. Other than those two, it doesn't do particularly well against any other important trainers, but it's only really useless versus Drayden and Marlon, and can be somewhat helpful in most other Gyms.
    Additional Comments: Growlithe is very one-dimensional. It may have great stats, but it's completely eclipsed by Darumaka, and Tepig to a lesser extent.


    If these are satisfactory, I'd like to reserve Mareep, Trapinch, and Buneary.

    EDIT: I just noticed that I misspelled powerful in the Additional Comments section for Absol's entry. So that needs to be fixed
  8. cant say

    cant say

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    I have to suggest moving Vaporeon up from Limbo to High.

    I really think the thing holding it back is its rarity (5% in that little Castelia Garden thing iirc). Evolving is easy as water stones are 3bp, so you can smash 1 streak in the multi train with your partner doing all the work, evolve and beat down on Clay. Otherwise get one from the PWT. Vaporeon was a fantastic teammate for me throughout the game, plenty of bulk and special power, and can learn plenty of HM's and the ever helpful dig.

    I can do a full analysis it it's necessary but this is only a vote not a write-up
  9. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    [​IMG]
    Name: Dunsparce
    Availability: Flocessy Ranch (10% Chance in Shaking Spots), Route 20 (Same chance)
    Stats: Immediately good, but he drops off horribly as you work towards even the middle of the game. Decent HP is all he really has. He's not that strong on offense and his defence is lackluster. He is also horribly slow.
    Typing: Normal. Pretty average. Has good STAB but there is a large amount of Fighting types and Intimidaters which really hurt you.
    Movepool: Return and Dig can be useful, also Glare and Coil. Drill Run comes at a time when you need the extra power. Apart from that, its pretty shallow. Rock Slide works well with Serene Grace after a Glare.
    Major Battles: It's good for the first few gyms, being relatively bulky and hitting OK, but after that it just falls away. The main use it has is for Glaring things and then trying to flinch them.
    Additional Comments: You could try some sort of weird gimmick set with Charge Beam and Serene Grace, but Run Away probably has more utility at the start of the game with being able to escape random stuff (which you'll need given his slow speed).

    Btw, after reviewing my experience with Sunkern, I'll solidly put it bottom... It is OK as Sunflora but those first 20 odd levels before you get a Sun Stone are a nightmare.

    EDIT: Updated to 10% and Snaquaza, I will never consider Roost/any healing move as being a bonus ingame. Potions are cheap and you never ever have money problems.
  10. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    DHR, Dunsparce is available at 10% and can be found at the route bordering it too I thought (route 18 or 20)

    I think Roost might be handy to have, IDK, but it lets you save Potions
  11. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Ok, updated with the latest.

    Added the Dunsparce, Axew, Sandshrew, Growlithe, and Tepig entries to the OP.

    All reservations have been added to the index post.

    I also moved Axew and Eevee - Vaporeon to High Tier.

    I also want to adress two things that you should keep in mind when you write these entries:

    1. Try to avoid comparing the Pokémon you're writing about to another Pokémon that is "better". It's like Mekkah said: if I want to use this Pokémon, I'm going to use it.

    2. Don't ever mention that the Pokémon you're writing about is tiered as it is because of another Pokémon, because that would be a lie. We have never tiered a single Pokémon on this tier list on the basis of another Pokémon's abilities. This is like the #1 rule here; it's all in the OP.

    Keep this in mind in the future. I will most likely remove mentions of the sort anyways (at least when it comes to point #2).

    And on a little lighter note, I'm going to reserve Ducklett and Pawniard myself.

    Oh, and the main goal of this tier list is to finish it and have it on site before October, if possible.
  12. Celever

    Celever

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    Are we allowed to propose movement of pokemon still? I was checking Seviper was mid before reserving the write-up and he's only in low. If we can propose I would like to propose Seviper to mid-tier.

    Reserving the write-up for him either way.

    Also Sunkern is definitely Low-tier worthy in my opinion. I doubted him at first, so I tested him out and he is actually pretty effective!
  13. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    SuperJocke, if there is any Poke you want me to do, I can try to, I will also try to make a list of things I should be able to do ^^
  14. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Name: Magnemite
    Availability: Comes early in the game before Roxie, at Virbank Complex.
    Stats: Has a great special attack stat, with decent overall bulk to back it up.
    Typing: Steel/Electric is arguably the holy grail of defensive typings, with resistances to everything except Water (which is weak to Electric), Ground, Fighting and Fire. Ground and Fighting types are rather common, though Magnemite wins everything else. Offensively, this typing is mediocre, but is saved by Magnemite's stats and movepool.
    Movepool: Magnemite comes with Sonicboom, a godsend earlygame that can 2-shot everything. Aside from that, it has Thundershock, and later Mirror Shot, which pairs well with Magnemite's good special attack. Magnemite doesn't get any good STAB until Flash Cannon, but it can hold with STAB Volt Switch, Thunder and a tutored Signal Beam. Charge Beam allows him to sweep and a Sturdy + Thunder Wave option exists as support.
    Major Battles: Magnemite steamrolls over Roxie, Burgh, Skyla and Marlon by virtue of typing alone. He helps a lot against Drayden, but needs to watch out for coverage moves like Earth Power. In the E4, he helps against almost every member, sans Marshall. There are some things he needs to watch out and keep away from though, like Chandelure and Mold Breaker Haxorus's Earthquake.

    Name: Darumaka
    Availability: Route 4, just before Burgh.
    Stats: Darmanitan has a ridiculously high 145 base Attack stat paired with a nice 95 Speed. His defenses are however terrible and his special attack is non-salvageable.
    Typing: Fire doesn't hit most things for super effective, but being able to smash steel types are nice.
    Movepool: Comes with a strong STAB in Fire Fang immediately (although it has a bad 76% accuracy), and can be taught Return, Rock Smash and Dig for coverage. What Darumaka really looks forward to though is L33 Flare Blitz. This attack turns Darumaka from "fast, offensive attacker" to "fast, offensive bruiser", and is boosted with Darumaka's evolution, Darmanitan's ability, Sheer Force. Once Darumaka evolves, most battles turn into a joke as Darmanitan is capable of one-shotting nearly anything that doesn't resist it with Flare Blitz, the recoil being non-consequential with the existence of Hyper Potions and Revives. Superpower, Rock Slide and Fire Punch work as alternatives, to keep Darmanitan's HP high.
    Major battles: Darumaka has a very easy time against the bugs in Burgh's gym, but he needs to watch for Dwebbles, that can hurt him with Smack Down. Fire Fang's unreliability also hurts. Aside from that, Darumaka's strong offensive presence gives it some sort of use almost every gym, excluding for Marlon's. In the E4, Darmanitan has use for almost every trainer (only Jellicent and Mienshao win Darmanitan, everything is generally smashed hard by a Charcoal-boosted Flare Blitz).
    Additional comments: Charcoal should be Darmanitan's main item: any boost to Flare Blitz's damage means that some bulkier enemies may not be able to hold their ground, allowing Darmanitan to win more enemies.
  15. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Ugh I had my write-ups near complete but then I accidently exited the tab. Guess I should use Word more often...

    Name: Sigilyph
    Availability: Sigilyph is found in the Desert Resort with a 10% encounter rate.
    Stats: Sigilyph's stats are well distributed for in-game runs. It has high Special Attack and Speed are perfect for sweeping, and its defences are more than enough to take hits repeatedly when required.
    Typing: Psychic/Flying STABs provide plenty of neutral and super-effective coverage, but they are stopped by Steel-types. 4x Fighting resistance and Ground immunity are helpful. It has 5 weaknesses but some of those are rare and Sigilyph can usually power through most Pokémon with these moves anyway.
    Movepool: Air Cutter and Psybeam provide early power, and Air Slash and Psychic replace these to keep it going late-game. Shadow Ball from TM is useful for coverage on Psychics, and the Signal Beam more tutor is a more expensive alternative for both Psychics and Darks. It gets walled by Steel-types for most of the game, so Heat Wave is an option late-game if you have the shards. Sigilyph can learn Fly and can act as both a powerhouse and a utility Pokémon.
    Major Battles: It can use its STABs to beat most Team Plasma grunts. Its typing is only advantageous against Marshall (watch out for Rock attacks), but it has enough Power and Speed to at least contribute against pretty much any gym.
    Additional Comments: Sigilyph doesn't rely on its abilities but Magic Guard is the more reliable choice.

    Name: Emolga
    Availability: Emolga appears before the 4th gym on Route 16. Unfortunately, it's a shaking grass Pokémon that isn't even a guaranteed encounter. It also arrives underleveled and requires substantial grinding.
    Stats: Emolga has excellent Speed and its attack stats are good initially. However, Emolga is very frail, and its attack stats start to lag badly late-game.
    Typing: Electric/Flying is an excellent typing; its STABs provide good coverage by themselves. It has useful resistance to several types, including Fighting and Ground, and it's only burdened with 2 rare weaknesses.
    Movepool: STAB Acrobatics at level 30 is surprisingly powerful. Emolga has several option for Electric STAB, but its strongest moves (Thunderbolt, Discharge, and Wild Charge) arrive disappointingly late. Aside from Signal Beam, Emolga's movepool is thin outside its STABs, but its STABs have good coverage by themselves so it isn't a huge problem.
    Major Battles: Acrobatics can tear through most of Team Plasma, and it does well against Skyla and Marlon. Its stats don't really cut it against other gyms though, and it really isn't doing anything against the Elite 4.
    Additional Comments: You have the option of trading Emolga away for am Adamant Gigalith with good IVs later on.

    Name: Onix (no trade)
    Availability: Obtained in Relic Path, before the third gym. It's a bit rare, but is easier to find in shaking spots.
    Stats: Onix's stats are the complete opposite of what you want in an in-game Pokémon. Onix has great Defense and decent Speed, but its other stats are dismal.
    Typing: Rock/Ground STABs have good synergy, and the combination has nice resistances to several types including Electric, Fire, Normal, and Flying. However, it dies to pretty much any Water and Grass attack, and the Fighting weakness isn't appreciated.
    Movepool: Onix gets Dig for a good early STAB, and STAB Rock attacks and Strength provide decent coverage. Onix misses out on some of the moves that Steelix has access to, but it doesn't really miss them too much since what it does have is acceptable.
    Major Battles: Onix hard-counters Elesa's entire gym and it has some use against Skyla's gym (avoid Skarmory, Ducklett and Swanna). Other than that, its stats and typing don't really let it do much in other gyms, and it has little use against the Elite 4.
    Additional Comments: Sturdy is the preferred ability to protect Onix from surprise Water and Grass attacks, although Rock Head is ok if you want to use Double-Edge. Since Onix will be unevolved the whole time, give it Eviolite to boost its defences.

    If these are ok, I'd like to reserve Magby, Audino, and Shuckle.
  16. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    SuperJocke, is it ok for me to take on Sunkern and Solrock?

    EDIT: How the hell is Solrock Mid? It's low at best. We are discounting DW Pokemon, so it doesn't get Zen Headbutt unless you spend 8 Blue Shards... I guess it does come at Level 48 with Stone Edge and Psychic but ZH is way better and you just get past Lentimas Town when you first hit Solrocks.
  17. Lucchini

    Lucchini

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    Any agreement on the starters in this game? Is it a good idea to stop using yours entirely once better Pokemon have been caught?
  18. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Oshawott's still worth using imo, with HM utility(SURF), Ice/Bug coverage, and generally nice balanced stats across the board. Megahorn is still the dealbreaker that Samurott has over a lot of the other guys though.

    Snivy is still rather bland (sup leech seed as main offense as servine) and you get Leavanny a lot quicker in this version due to Sewaddle being available much earlier to grind happiness. Aqua Tail and Dragon Pulse exists as alternatives, but it's still kind of bland for the Servine stage.

    Not sure about Tepig though since I never used him, but I'd imagine he'd be a lot less inefficient than Darmanitan since he needs Flame Charge to really go anywhere (and Darmanitan's already nuking everything with Flare Blitz then). Besides, Darmanitan also has Rock and Fighting coverage, so Emboar's biggest advantages are like, STAB Hammer Arm. Wow. also no brick break really hurts

    To sum it up, I'd say only Oshawott is really worth keeping, and mostly due to Megahorn being a rather unique niche for it. Azumarill gives it a run for its money with Huge Power, but nothing else really does (Basculin, Panpour and Vaporeon all come rather late and again, lack Megahorn). Snivy seems really outclassed by Leavanny though, and there's still Lilligant...
  19. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Random question, but does anyone else think that it's a bit pointless to include Rufflet and Vullaby on this tier list? It's just that we have entries for the stationary Braviary and Mandibuzz, and if we have to mention the unevolved forms I think they could just be mentioned in the entries for the evolved forms. Thoughts?
  20. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Nope, this will not be happening. Simple as that.

    Just want say that I would appreciate it if you guys held these kind of discussions in this thread instead: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3468375

    I don't want this thread to "clog up" again like it did once.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Reservations have been dealt with. All new entries have been edited and added to OP.

    There's something I want to adress as well.

    If you want a Pokémon to be moved don't just say "This Pokémon is this tier, not that tier" or "I think this Pokémon should moved to that tier". Doesn't help me at all. I want detailed descriptions, and if you can't provide that I doubt your knowledge about the Pokémon.

    And guys, you don't need my permission to reserve Pokémon. As long as your number of Pokémon doesn't exceed 3 at a time I'm fine with it; just go ahead and write your entries. If I would have a problem with you reserving something I'll just say so.
  21. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Name: Magby
    Availability: Early. Found in the Virbank Complex before the second gym.
    Stats: The Magby line has above average Attack, Special Attack, and Speed, but Magby also has mediocre defenses, particularly on the physical side.
    Typing: Fire is an acceptable offensive type, and the coverage against Steel-types in particular is appreciated. Rock, Ground, and Water weaknesses aren't helpful given Magby's frailty so you must ensure you use Magby with something that can take these moves.
    Movepool: Its level-up movepool is limited to STAB and Faint Attack. Flame Burst at level 22 is nice for early power, and Lava Plume and Flamethrower replace it later. Magmortar learns some cool moves, although Thunderbolt arrives too late to see a lot of use. ThunderPunch from the move relearner can be used in the meantime.
    Major Battles: Does well against Roxie and Burgh, and is very good at dealing with Colress, the Shadow Trio, and Zinzolin. It deals with Skyla's Swoobat and Skarmory nicely, but most of the other gym leaders are strong against Fire and there aren't many Elite 4 Pokémon that stick out as being countered by Magmar/Magmortar.
    Additional Comments: Magby's main problem comes from late evolutions. It lags a bit just before level 30 and it would have likes to evolved into Magmar sooner. Magmortar is very good but Magmarizer comes too late for Magmortar to have much of an effect.

    Name: Audino
    Availability: Found commonly in shaking grass on almost every route. Note that you need to get the first badge before shaking grass starts appearing.
    Stats: Audino's Speed and attack stats are at least on par with most of the unevolved Pokémon at the start of the game, but they lag late-game. Audino's strengths lie in its nice 103/86/86 bulk.
    Typing: Pure Normal is a bland typing with a Ghost-type immunity, a Fighting-type weakness, and no super-effective coverage. It does have good neutral coverage though, which is ideal for taking on consecutive trainers on routes. Ghost-, Steel-, and Rock- types don't care about Normal-type moves but Audino can cover them with other moves.
    Movepool: Very wide. It has plenty of STAB options to pick from, with Return being available near the start. Coverage moves include Ice Beam/Blizzard/Ice Punch, Surf, Thunderbolt/Thunder/ThunderPunch/Wild Charge, Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Fire Punch, Psychic, Shadow Ball, and Signal Beam. You can mix and match moves to suit your team.
    Major Battles: Mostly depends on what moves you teach it, but late-game it'll find that it's too weak to sweep teams. Basically just pick match-ups that suit its moves.
    Additional Comments: Healer is very situational and Regenerator is definitely the preferred ability. Audino tend to pile on damage late-game, so any free healing you can get is appreciated.

    Name: Shuckle
    Availability: Found on the bottom floor of the Seaside Cave with a 5% encounter rate.
    Stats: Shuckle's Attack, Special Attack, and Speed are laughably poor. It has options to boost its Attack, but its low Speed and reliance of Attack-boosting moves will prevent it from sweeping opponents effortlessly. On the other hand, Shuckle has the highest defenses in the game, although its low HP limits the amount of hits it can take somewhat.
    Typing: Rock/Bug is a decent offensive typing with coverage on Flying, Grass, Fire, Psychic, Dark, and Bug. Defensively it isn't so good, with just 2 resistances, although Shuckle can survive anything regardless.
    Movepool: Shuckle has a few moves to boost its lousy Attack: Power Trick (massive Attack boost, but is physically frail and still slow); Shell Smash (Attack/Speed boost, but needs many boosts and becomes frail); and Power Split (also weakens your opponent, but comes later than the others). It gets Rock Slide and Bug Bite from level up, and Bulldoze from TM for coverage against Steel-types.
    Major Battles: Shuckle will never be the best option for a match-up, mostly because its Speed is so low. Power Split should allow Shuckle to do well against Caitlin, although its low Speed will make a sweep difficult.
    Additional Comments: Sturdy is the better ability, although it won't affect Shuckle's performance significantly (so don't worry if you get unlucky and encounter a Gluttony Shuckle).

    Reserving Petilil, Lapras, and Patrat.
  22. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Whee.

    Name: Oshawott
    Availability: Starter Pokemon
    Stats: Balanced stats across the board, with some emphasis in Attack and Special Attack.
    Typing: Water gives it a nice variety of options, but it doesn't give Oshawott a lot of strong matchups throughout the game.
    Movepool: Oshawott gets interesting movepool options, most notable being Megahorn from the move re-learner (or X-Scissor from TM), tutored Superpower, and Ice Beam/Blizzard from TM. He also gets Swords Dance, allowing him to pull off sweeps on some foes.
    Major Battles: Oshawott is one of the best options against Clay, an otherwise difficult boss. His coverage options make him a legitimate pick for Drayden as well. In the E4, Samurott shines as a backup to almost everything, with a strong varied movepool to pick off weakened teams if your sweeper fails, and the bulk to take hits when you need to heal other Pokemon.
  23. RegiFlame150

    RegiFlame150

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    May I request Lucario and Heracross?
  24. RegiFlame150

    RegiFlame150

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    67
    Finished Heracross, Riolu will come later
    Name: Heracross
    Availability: Early, in Lostlorn Forest, but requires some time because of its 5% encounter rate
    Stats: Base 125 Attack is the second highest of all Bug-types that are pre-Hall of Fame (only surpassed by Escavalier). Its other stats are decent but not outstanding. Base 75 Defense is a bit disappointing but its 95 Special Defense and acceptable 80 HP make up for it. 85 Speed is good enough to outrun a lot of Pokemon, but it may come up short against some end-game bosses. Basically, Heracross should be hitting hard physically and taking hits only when necessary
    Typing: Offensively, Bug and Fighting can hit quite a bit. They provide Heracross with two 120 base power STAB moves, something that many other Pokemon don’t enjoy. Defensively, the weaknesses to Fire, Flying, and Psychic are going to trouble Heracross throughout the game. Heracross does carry a nifty resistance to Fighting as well as to Ground in exchange for a neutrality to Rock. Team support is going to be necessary for Heracross’ weaknesses but otherwise it is not a bad combo.
    Movepool: This is what the beetle has over other Fighting-types in-game. Heracross learns Night Slash at base, an excellent coverage move that many Fighting-types would love. It gets Brick Break a level after you catch it, as well as Close Combat at level 34. At 46, it obtains Megahorn. TM-wise, Heracross only really would like Rock Slide, which is obtainable before Skyla. If your Heracross has Guts, you may want to consider Façade in Humilau City. Tutor moves are disappointing, so you shouldn’t need any.
    Major Battles:Heracross beats Clay easily due to getting Close Combat around that battle. It can take on Marlon’s Carracosta, as well as some of Drayden’s frailer dragons due to its sheer power. It manhandles (bughandles?) Team Plasma that lack Golbat or Weezing. Heracross can take on Ghetsis’ Hydreigon with relative ease, as well as Black Kyurem and Drapion. Heracross beats Grimsley’s whole crew (watch out for random Aerial Aces from Liepard) and can smash Iris’ Aggron and Lapras, as well as Haxorus (careful of Dragon Dance). Heracross is great for being able to smash certain tough Pokemon on an opponent’s team, but it has a bit of trouble sweeping due to its average speed.
    Additional Comments: Guts is easily the better ability if you can snag it, allowing Heracross to turn from “tough Fighting-type” to “serial killer” when statused. Additionally, Heracross can take advantage of the fact that regular poisoning is more common than Toxic poisoning in-game to trigger Guts. Façade also doubles in power when statused, so try and make that work to your advantage as well. Swarm is still decent for powering up Megahorn when Heracross is in a pinch, but it’s still far inferior to Guts.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  25. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    Finally got these done.

    Name: Petilil
    Availability: In W2, it's found in the garden in Castelia City. In B2, it's obtained via a trade for a Cottonee on Route 4.
    Stats: Lilligant has a high base 110 Special Attack, which is supported by a solid base 90 Speed. 70/75/75 bulk is far from the best but it's good enough to take a hit while setting up.
    Typing: Grass isn't a particularly good type because several common types resist it. It also has 5 weaknesses, although resistances to Ground and Water are quite helpful.
    Movepool: Lilligant has a thin movepool with limited coverage, but it has everything it needs to work. As a Petilil, it has early access to decent STABs in Magical Leaf and Giga Drain. After that, Petilil has no particularly important moves, so you can evolve it early to gain Quiver Dance at level 28. At level 46, it learns Petal Dance, which makes it an even better sweeper.
    Major Battles: Lilligant works best against Elesa, Clay, and Marlon. Its typing isn't particularly helpful against the other Gyms or the Elite 4, but if it can set up against the lead it may be able to sweep anyway.
    Additional Comments: Petilil can be evolved with the Sun Stone obtained in Nimbasa City. It's recommended that you don't raise it past level 28 until you evolve it so you can get Quiver Dance right away. Petilil's preferred ability is Own Tempo to prevent Petal Dance confusion. The trade Petilil in Black 2 comes with Own Tempo, and is Timid with good IVs. Note that there is a Breeder with 2 Grass weak Pokemon on Route 4 that can be rebattled for easy experience.

    Name: Lapras
    Availability: Obtained from Surfing spots under Village Bridge. It only has a 5% encounter rate and Perish Song can make it annoying to catch. It'll probably be under-levelled too.
    Stats: Very well-balanced. High HP and decent defenses make it good at taking hits repeatedly, and 85/85 offenses allow it to hit reasonably hard physically and specially. It's a little bit slow though.
    Typing: Water/Ice is a strong offensive typing; its STABs have very good coverage, although they're stopped by other Water-types. Defensively, Water/Ice leaves a lot to be desired because it has 4 weaknesses and just 2 resistances.
    Movepool: Wide. Lapras will likely know Ice Beam upon capture (it learns it at level 32), and Surf is obtained from HM right away. Thunder (and Thunderbolt later on) is available for coverage on Water-types, and Psychic does the same for Fighting-types. Signal Beam is available for Grass-types should you have the shards. Its physical movepool is less impressive so using it as a special attacker is recommended.
    Major Battles: Lapras works very well against Drayden with Ice Beam (it should be able to take Revenge or Rock Slide). If it has Thunder, it can counter Marlon too, especially with Water Absorb. It should be strong enough to see use against the Elite 4 (it works wonders against Iris' Dragons), but it should stay away from Marshall.

    Name: Patrat
    Availability: Very commonly found on early routes. It will be one of the first Pokemon you encounter.
    Stats: Watchog's stats are mediocre in the long run, although 85 Attack and 77 Speed should be sufficient early-game. Its power peaks right after it evolves.
    Typing: Normal's strong point is its wide neutral coverage (ideal for Trainers on regular routes), but the fact that it has no super-effective coverage hurts Watchog a bit. It also has no resistances, so Watchog will be relying on its shaky defenses to take hits, although at least it has a Ghost immunity and only 1 weakness.
    Movepool: Decent. Patrat has access to Frustration and Return pretty early for acceptable STAB, and Crunch at level 16. The move tutors gave it Seed Bomb, the elemental punches, Zen Headbutt, and Aqua Tail to pick from for coverage, although you won't be able to afford everything without grinding for shards. For support moves, Super Fang and Hypnosis are useful for catching Pokemon, but its poor match-up against the legendary trio is disappointing in this regard.
    Major Battles: Early-game, you'll find that Watchog works well in most Gyms because it can hit fairly hard against most opponents. Late-game, Watchog's stats just don't cut it anymore and it'll often lose against stronger Pokemon even if it has a super-effective coverage move.

    Reserving Dwebble, Woobat, and Cubchoo.

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