Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.
Reserving Snivy, Deerling and Volcarona.
Availability: Early (Route 20, Rare anytime other than Summer)
Stats: Poor. Lowest BST in the game, and upon Evolution gains a strong Special Attack stat, but it is slow and not very bulky.
Typing: Grass. Not all that terrible overall, Grass- is reliable on offense, but is fairly mediocre for defending.
Movepool: Shallow. Leech Seed, Giga Drain and Petal Dance are all you really need. Make sure you evolve him before Level 28 for Petal Dance. Earth Power is also available, and it can also learn Cut for some utility.
Major Battles: It fairs badly against all but two gyms (Clay and Marlon). Even then it'll have to watch out for Rock Slide Flinches vs Excadrill if you decide to stay in. Elite 4 is not so bad, use it where Grass is strong and you should have no problems KOing a few of their Pokemon. All it can do versus Colress and Zinzolin is try to Leech Seed stall (unless you have Earth Power against the former).
Additional Comments: You can evolve it in Nimbasa City by finding the Sun Stone. Sunkern will have to be Lv20 or so at this point to keep it with your team.
Will do Solrock later :)
Here it comes:
Availability:Early in Flocessy Ranch, but it has a 5% encounter rate so it may take some time to find
Stats:Riolu's strong points are its base 70 Attack and 60 Speed, so utilize them because you may be stuck with him until he's happy. Upon evolution, Lucario gets a great 110 Attack and 115 Special Attack along with a nice 90 Speed. His defenses (70/70/70) are not amazing, but will do for weak attacks.
Typing:Fighting/Steel is shared only with Cobalion, and Lucario can abuse it to switch in on weaker Psychic and Flying attacks that would heavily damage other early game Fighting types such as Heracross. Note that Lucario cannot handle Ground types as effectively because he is weak to them. He does have an amazing 4x resistance to Dark and Rock, but gains a Fighting weakness. This typing is not bad, but hinders him occasionally.
Movepool:Lucario's main Achilles heel in-game. He is restricted to Force Palm for Fighting STAB until level 51 and Aura Sphere arrive. Close Combat comes at 55, barely making it to the Elite Four. He has Bone Rush for Ground-type coverage and Metal Claw as an additional STAB. Dark Pulse is learned at base and has good coverage with his Fighting moves. Tutor-wise, the main moves you will want to save up for are Ice Punch and possibly Drain Punch if you need it, although Aura Sphere and Close Combat are near in level so you are better off saving your Yellow Shards. Swords Dance is another good level-up move to boost Force Palm's power
Major Battles:He beats Cheren pretty handily with Force Palm if you have it. If he evolves before Roxie, you may not even need a Magnemite because the Poison-types cannot touch him and he has a full-power Return to work with. Against Burgh, he won't hit very hard due to not being able to use his STAB but the Bugs can't touch him either. When battling Elesa, keep him away from Zebstrika and he should do fine. Clay is generally to be avoided even though Lucario can hit Krokorok and Excadrill super-effectively because Intimidate from Krokorok can cut Force Palm's power and Excadrill is bulky enough to take one Force Palm and hit back with Bulldoze. Don't use him against Skyla unless you can snag Rock Slide-even if you do, Skarmory can stop you cold. Against Drayden, avoid strong Fighting attacks and Flygon. Haxorus cannot touch you without a couple of Dragon Dances under his belt, so while he is trying to boost, Lucario can hit him repeatedly. Lucario will not do good against anything on Marlon's team save Carracosta. As for Team Plasma, Lucario destroys them and has the benefit of being immune to Poison, unlike other Fighting-types. For the Elite Four, Dark Pulse and Close Combat/Aura Sphere will destroy Caitlin, Grimsley, and Shauntal. Against Iris, watch out for random Focus Blasts, Flamethrowers, and Earthquakes. Lucario performs brilliantly against Aggron and Lapras.
Additional Comments:Either ability of Lucario's is useless. Steadfast can be used against known Fake Out users to try and snag a useful Speed boost. If it hasn't evolved by at least Elesa, or is consistently performing poorly, you should consider another Fighting-type for your team
Availability: Early. Very commonly encountered in the Relic Passage.
Stats: Woobat's only great stat is Speed. Base 114 Speed as a Swoobat ensures that you'll always go first so it works ok for sweeping routes. Aside from an average base 77 Special Attack, Swoobat's other stats are awful.
Typing: Psychic/Flying is a decent offensive type, Steel-types aside. Defensively, its strong match-ups against Ground and Fighting are nice, but 5 weaknesses is a lot for such a frail Pokemon.
Movepool: Woobat starts with STAB Gust and Heart Stamp, and Air Cutter comes at level 21. Air Slash (level 32) and Psychic (level 41) are the late game replacements. Shadow Ball from TM provides coverage, and if you hoard shards you can get some nice moves from the move tutors, with Heat Wave being particularly helpful for coverage against Steels. If anything, Swoobat learns Fly so it can provide utility at least.
Major Battles: Woobat works well against Burgh but hates Dwebble. It doesn't really work that well anywhere else. It may seem like it would work well against Marshall, but most of his Pokemon have Rock moves that destroy Swoobat, and they can survive a hit.
Additional Comments: Woobat evolves by happiness, so you're going to have to work hard to keep the frail Woobat alive to prevent it from hating you.
Availability: Found on Route 7. Note that Cubchoo is only found in Winter (April, August, December), and if you are unwilling to change the month on your console then you may not be able to obtain it right away.
Stats: Before it evolves, Cubchoo is frail and slow, although its offenses are decent. It becomes much bulkier as a Beartic. Base 110 attack is very good but base 50 Speed isn't good late-game.
Typing: Ice is a great offensive type. Super-effective coverage on Dragon-types is rare and Beartic can provide that. On the other hand, Ice is one of the worst defensive types because it only resists itself and it's weak to Fire, Rock, Fighting, and Steel.
Movepool: Decent. Its movepool isn't that good before evolving, but it learns Icicle Crash right after evolving, guaranteeing it access to a powerful physical STAB. Superpower can be relearned by Beartic with a Heart Scale, as can Aqua Jet. It gets goodies like Dig, Shadow Claw, and Rock Slide from TMs.
Major Battles: Beartic is decent against Skyla's gym, although only 1 of Skyla's Pokemon is actually weak to Ice. It's very good against Drayden and it should be able to survive at least one super-effective hit. It isn't that helpful against Marshall, but the other Elite 4 members carry at least 1 Pokemon weak to Icicle Crash (Drifblim, Golurk, Krookodile, Sigilyph), and it can work well against Iris's Dragons.
Availability: Found in the Desert Resort; it has a 10% encounter rate.
Stats: The Dwebble line focuses on Defense, although Dwebble's Attack is decent too. When it evolves, it can take Special attacks pretty well. Dwebble's main problem is its Speed, which actually drops after it evolves.
Typing: Bug/Rock is a neat offensive type that covers 6 types super-effectively. Steel-types wall it but these can be covered by other moves. Defensively it's a bit disappointing, with only 2 resistances (Normal and Poison).
Movepool: Dwebble starts with Smack Down and gets Bug Bite soon after. Rock Slide at level 29 is excellent, and it learns X-Scissor later on too. It can learn Dig, so Dwebble can achieve fantastic coverage right from the start. Crustle also gets Shell Smash for sweeping. Shell Smash also helps make up for Crustle's poor Speed, although it'll still be rather slow after 1 boost.
Major Battles: Dwebble can contribute against Elesa and Clay but a full sweep is unlikely. Its late-game match-ups depend on how well it can set up against the lead. Skyla's Swoobat and Grimsley's Liepard should be easy set bait assuming you don't get hit by Attract. A few Full Heals should help you set up against Caitlin's Musharna too.
Additional Comments: Both of Dwebble's abilities are good. Sturdy probably has the edge because it helps set up Shell Smash more easily.
I'm not reserving any more of these for now, but I'm going to do a run-through of White 2, using Venipede, Rattata, Basculin, Zebstrika, and Drifblim. The 6th slot will be Tepig initially but I might change that later. I'll post my thoughts when I'm done.
I'd like to reserve Eevee - Vaporeon and Zorua
I'd also like to do Elekid, however, I evolved mine as soon as you get the Electrizer so am unfamiliar as how Electabuzz fairs end-game. I assume its pretty similar, but would this need to be pointed out?
I finished my testing a few days ago, and now that the site is back up I'd would like to propose the following tier placements:
Zebstrika for Mid tier. Basically, STAB Electric attacks are very useful late-game, and Zebstrika is more than adequate at providing that considering it's one of the fastest Electric-types around. It destroys 2/3 of the last gyms on its own, and it kills the numerous Water-types around the outside of the Seaside Cave. It was even pretty useful for Victory Road since Flying and Water types appear there too, and it has a few targets for the Elite 4. Zebstrika's main issue, aside from coming a bit late, is that while it is near unmatched as a Water + Flying slayer, it kinda sucks at everything else. It gets 1-2HKOed very easily and it often fails to KO quickly enough to avoid dying. Basically, there are several senarios where Zebstrika might take off 70% of its opponent with Discharge or whatever, and then it gets OHKOed! It needs a good deal of team support, but I think it's good enough at what it does to qualify in Mid.
Basculin for Mid tier. Loved this thing. Adaptability + Mystic Water + Surf + Aqua Tail/Waterfall 1-2HKOs everything that doesn't resist Water. It's also fast enough to outspeed most opponents so it doesn't have to take that many hits (that's good considering how frail it is). You can catch Basculin at up to level 30 in the Relic Passage so it requires little grinding (this is easy to find with the Repel trick; I just used a Ducklett I caught as a HM slave to lure them out). It's a bit one-dementional though; its other moves aren't that powerful when Basculin uses them so it doesn't do all that well against things that resist Water (how convenient that the last 2 gyms are Dragon and Water, and the 6th gym uses a Swanna as the last Pokémon). It's a bit late too - it's a shame that Basculin comes AFTER Clay since Basculin would destroy that gym easily. Its best match-ups are against Shauntal and Grimsley in my experience, but other than that it isn't the most useful Pokémon for those match-ups.
Drifblim for Low tier. I think the problem with this is that it doesn't really do enough for the team in the short amount of time it is available. Don't get me wrong; it's not completely awful. It has STAB Acrobatics immediately, and Shadow Ball and Psychic are available soon after. That basically gives you a weaker mixed attacking Ghost-type Sigilyph. Its stats are...adequate, without being particularly outstanding. All of that keeps it out of Bottom tier. But it isn't really that useful beyond being a solid but unspectacular route sweeping kind of Pokémon. It doesn't really have that many good match-ups either. I was actually expecting it to do well against the Elite 4 but it was disappointing in the end. It might seem awesome against Marshall but Throh and Conkeldurr can survive Acrobatics, and Sawk has Sturdy. All of these have super-effective Rock attacks. Obviously it can contribute and take Mienshao and maybe Throh down (Rock Tomb is weak) but it isn't going to sweep without luck. Same with Shauntal. Shadow Ball isn't strong enough to OHKO and its taking Ghost attacks in return so no sweep there either. Its best match-up is against Caitlin but it can't OHKO there either, and it will be hindered by things like Yawn, Shadow Ball, and Thunderbolt. There is honestly little net gain in using Drifblim so I don't think Mid is a good idea. Oh, and I guess I should bring up the fact that it's in the worst possible experience group so it grows slower than most Pokémon and drags its team down a bit. I didn't think this was as big of a problem in this game as it was in 4th gen though, thanks to the newer experience mechanics, and Audino.
Venipede for Mid tier. It's obtained early and at a good level, it evolves into its final form pretty quickly, and it's really fast and can hit pretty hard. Bug Bite and Poison Tail give it good STAB early and Bulldoze is goos for coverage, and of course Scolipede can learn Megahorn with a Heart Scale in Driftveil City (there are a few of these lying around before Driftveil, so you should have at least one - if not, you can get X-Scissor a little later on). It's a great route sweeper. Strong match-ups against Caitlin, Grimsley and Burgh (bar Dwebble) give it something to do in match-ups, and of course it slays Hydreigon better than most things. It's a bit frail so it can be 2HKOed fairly easily late-game. It's not particularly good before it learns Poison Tail (although Rollout sweeps against Roxie are amusing if you can pull them off). Also, Megahorn misses suck (I had 2 instances of 4 consecutive misses in this run-through). It has flaws but it has more than enough going for it for Mid.
I also tested Rattata but I'm not posting my thoughts on it until I've made up my mind about it. It is sort of on the borderline between Low and Mid for me, but I lean more towards Mid at the moment.
I'm not sure if we're still using the "3 votes required for a Pokémon to get tiered" thing but if these are accepted I'm more than happy to do write-ups for them.
At some point I'm also going to go through some of my other ones and remove some errors I made (like listing Dive on Beartic even though it's post-game).
Holy moly we're back!!
With the site being down for a while I pretty much forgot to write any of my analysis's, now I'm a little busy so they may not get done until next week! I'll just update when I'm done
It's alright. I probably won't update this in a while until Smogon is a bit more, let's say, "done". (need those hide tags a lot) :p I won't wait for too long though; we'll see what happens.
Braviary trivialises... Elesa? Pretty sure you can't get one before Burgh.
Mienfoo is too high in High IMO. Late evolution if caught early, and bad availability otherwise. Don't see the appeal at all.
? IIRC I remember getting Braviary before Burgh though. Might be wrong about that.
Nope, the Crustles block the road before you even see Braviary.
Finally done editing and updating. It took way longer than I thought it would...
Anyways, added all new entries to the OP and updated the reservations.
I also added Basculin, Drifblim, Venipede, and Zebstrika into to the respective tiers atsync proposed. If you disagree with this in some way, speak up. They are available for reservation as well.
Now that we're starting again, try to finish your reserved Pokémon ASAP, otherwise I'll remove your reservation if it takes too long. So check the reservations post (#840) to see your reservation(s).
ok I'll try to get onto mine ASAP
should I do this as well? or is there anyone that has experience with both that could do it instead?
I thought the trade Elekid wasn't tiered yet. Sorry about that.
Go ahead and do Elekid.
I think trade and non-trade Elekid was grouped together in the end as we decided they were both high tier. I'll do what I have reserved first then see how I go
Availability: Mid/Late (Route 13, 10% Chance)
Stats: Below average. 95 Attack is its best stat, and its defenses are not great. A large amount of Pokemon can hit it for SE damage.
Typing: Rock/Psychic. An interesting and virtually unique combo. Rock moves work well with its Attack, but Psychic moves are left desiring for more power.
Movepool: Extremely Shallow. Rock Slide and Psychic might seem great initially, and then Stone Edge arrives a few levels after capture. However, you can get Zen Headbutt for 8 blue shards in Lentimas Town which greatly increases Solrock's usability and heart scale Rock Polish for some sweeping (and flinching) potential.
Major Battles: At this point you already have 6 badges and the major battles left can be a struggle for Solrock. Team Plasma has lots of Dark types, Colress resists both STABs and you only have a single resistance to one Elite 4 member. Played well you can try to set up on Marshall and go for Flinch hax with Zen Headbutt, but it is risky.
Additional Comments: Zen headbutt is almost a must for this Pokemon, it is well worth the shards. It has decent coverage against random trainers out and about with its niche dual STABs.
Just mentioning it, but I don't think it should be as high as mid without Zen headbutt from the DW... It comes a bit late and at too lower level really. I'd be in support of dropping it a tier. I'll have a look through whats left and see if I can find anything else I've used since that I have a view on :)
I noticed nobody has reserved Sandile So I'm gonna do it.
Availability: You get Sandile before the third gym at route 4.
Stats: The main thing you'll be relying on for the Sandile line is it's ATK and Spd. As a Sandile, it's ATK and Speed are fairly high at 72 base atk and 65 base spd respectively. When it evolve's into it's final stage, it has 92 base spd and a high 117 Base ATK. it's HP is base 92 and it has a 70/70 defensive spread.
Typing: Ground/Dark typing doesn't really combine well defensively. The two really only add weaknesses to each other as Krookodile has a total of 5 weaknesses. Offensively it's not bad though as it hits 6 types super effectively. Neutrally though, the combined typing is unresisted offensively by any single type.
Movepool: For it's level up movepool, you can get bite at level 4 so you should try to catch it at level 15. Any higher and Bite will be replaced with assurance. As for the rest of it's movepool, you should mainly get Crunch, Earthquake, and Outrage. For TMs you should aim for Bulldose and Rock Slide. For other options you should get Dig and Rock Tomb early on, Aerial Ace, and Giga Impact. For Move Tutor you should get Superpower.
Major Battles: You can Solo the 4th gym pretty easily so long as you get Rock Tomb. It can also do pretty well in the 6th gym if you get Rock Slide. For the Elite 4, you can solo Catlin and Shauntal.
Additional Comments: Between Intimidate and Moxie, Moxie is the slightly more recommended option as it increases your ATK when you KO a pokemon which is much more helpful than reducing the ATK of one of your opponent's Pokémon.
I'm going to reserve Route 4 Braviary
EDIT: never mind
I'll reserve Basculin, Drifblim, and Zebstrika.
Availability: Very Late (Abundant Shrine, 20%, not accessible until after you gain Waterfall)
Stats: Decent. Ninetales has reasonable Offence and good Speed. Her physical Defence is lacking though.
Typing: Fire. At this point in the game, no principle trainers left are weak to its STAB. On the plus side, nothing is SE vs it either.
Movepool: Shallow. You will need to spend some Heart Scales on Vulpix before evolving it in order to get the best out of its moveset. Flamethrower and Energy Ball give good coverage and Will O Wisp gives you something to do against Physical Attackers. Ninetales gains Nasty Plot via Heart Scale which could be useful to fire off some super high powered offensive moves.
Major Battles: Elite 4. No good or bad match ups against any of the Elite 4 members. The only thing it hits super effectively with STAB (Against every primary trainer left) is Grimsley's Bisharp. Iris will likely brute force through Ninetales with no problems.
Additional Comments: It's late catch place and movepool cost are really huge negative points. Its stats do not befit its late placement and nor does its type.
Definitely worthy of Bottom. I used a Droughtpix through a game and it still didn't have enough power to muscle through most enemies. It is a horrible choice for an in game team in BW2.
When you write up Drifblim, be sure to mention the plethora of Flying/Ghost gems available. Acrobatics is a brilliant set in-game, if only used in important battles.
Availability: Found in a number of ponds all over Unova; the one to go for is in Relic Path. You need Surf to encounter it.
Stats: Basculin has good Speed and offensive stats, allowing it to be a decent mixed attacker. Its defenses are poor, however.
Typing: Water is a good offensive and defensive type. There are plenty of regular trainers with Water-weak Pokemon out there, though it isn't as useful against stronger trainers.
Movepool: Basculin starts with Surf, and it learns Aqua Tail fairly early. Combine that with Adaptability and you have a Pokemon capable of 1-2HKOing most Pokemon you encounter effortlessly. Basculin also gets Blizzard/Ice Beam, Double-Edge, and Crunch, but it will be using its STAB moves most of the time.
Major Battles: Unfortunately, Water isn't particularly helpful against the last Gym Leaders. Basculin's better match-ups are against Shauntal and Grimsley since both carry Water-weak and/or frail Pokemon on their teams. It can also take down Iris's Archeops and Aggron.
Additional Comments: You should always use Adaptabilty on Basculin because it provides it with impressive sweeping potential against regular trainers.
Availability: Commonly encountered on Route 7.
Stats: Zebstrika is one of the fastest Pokemon in Unova, and it also has decent 100/80 attacking stats. Unfortunately, its defenses are mediocre and it can be 1-2HKOed fairly easily.
Typing: Electric is a very useful offensive type late-game because Water- and Flying-types are pretty common.
Movepool: Zebstrika's main problem is its thin movepool. It has decent STAB options, but other than that it is limited to Flame Charge, Signal Beam, Thrash/Strength, and Bounce. Its moves don't really hit hard enough against some of the stronger trainers and Zebstrika often finds itself getting KOed when it falls short of a kill.
Major Battles: Zebstrika is a hard counter to Skyla and Marlon, and this is the main reason why you would want to use it. It also has some use against certain Elite 4 Pokemon, although it isn't going to sweep any of the Elite 4 members.
Additional Comments: Lightningrod is the preferred ability because it benefits from a power boost more than a Speed boost; however, both abilities are situational so it isn't that important.
Availability: It's first obtainable outside Reversal Mountain.
Stats: Drifblim's low defenses are balanced by its HP stat, while it has decent offenses and Speed. It's strong enough for regular trainers, but it doesn't stand out in any category and often falls short against more important trainers.
Typing: Flying/Ghost has acceptable coverage and is advantageous against much of the Elite 4 on paper, but it's walled by Steel-types. It is hit-and-miss defensively (6 immunities/resistances, but 5 weaknesses).
Movepool: Drifblim starts with STAB Acrobatics, and it gets STAB Shadow Ball at level 40. Psychic arrives soon after via TM, and it also gets Thunder/Thunderbolt later. It lacks a good move for Steel-types though.
Major Battles: Drifblim seems good against the Elite 4 in theory, but many of their Pokemon can hit Drifblim super-effectively. It may be able to take 1 or 2 of Marshall or Shaultal's Pokemon down but it can't sweep when it's taking Rock and Ghost moves in response. Caitlin is its best match-up, but even there it has to deal with Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball.
Additional Comments: Aftermath is useful because it can make a Pokemon easier to kill by a teammate if it dies. Unburden can work if you stock up on Flying Gems for Acrobatics though.
Availability: Late (Giant Chasm Forest, 15%)
Stats: Poor. Chances are you won't have Imposter, so it still has to take a hit with paltry 48 stats across the board.
Typing: Normal, but then whatever it transforms into.
Major Battles: Giant Chasm, Ghetsis and Elite 4 left. If it transforms into the right thing, it can probably go from there... But good luck getting that Transform in place.
Additional Comments: It's Ditto. Hope you get a Quick Powder Item and try and outspeed with the Transform. Use it for breeding other cooler Pokemon.
I don't really know what else to say for Ditto... It's appallingly bad in game. It's only perk is breeding :D Which you can't do until post game anyway...
Availability: Late/Endgame (Abundant Shrine, 15%)
Stats: Very good defensively, boasting 67/116/116 bulk as Bronzong, but suffers from low speed and only average attacking stats.
Typing: Steel/Psychic is an incredible defensive typing with many resistances—and only two weaknesses—allowing it to take several hits, but the STAB coverage it has is nothing home to write home about.
Movepool: Bronzor's movepool is rather average ingame. Gyro Ball and Payback are the only real level-up moves worth using. Other than that, it gets some okay TM coverage with Psychic/Psyshock, Shadow Ball, and Bulldoze. If you have not used your free Red Shards yet, you could also look into Iron Head/Signal Beam from the Driftveil Tutor as well.
Major Battles: It can do a half-decent job in most of the remaining major battles, but do not expect it to sweep through any of those teams, because it is so slow and it only has average offenses. Its best bet of doing something is against Marshal with its Super Effective Psychic-Type attacks.
Additional Comments: Levitate is generally preferred to Heatproof due to the immunity it grants. Because it only comes at Level 32—or 36 and evolved in dark grass—and the point where you get it, if you plan to use this for the Elite Four, be prepared to set a couple of hours aside to get Bronzor up to par with the rest of your team.
Ehhh, there is not much else I can write about, but I tried to not be massively negative with the analysis... :|
Availability: Late (Giant Chasm Dark Grass, 5% and Route 22 Dark Grass 5%)
Stats: Poor. Extremely poor. No defence, no attack, the only salvageable stat is speed.
Typing: Ice/Flying. Nice STAB options for nearing the end game, but not enough power to back them up.
Movepool: Present. And then any TM's or tutor moves you wish to spend on it. Hustle with Fly/Aerial Ace can work well, as well as Ice Punch. Even with Hustle it is not hitting particularly hard.
Major Battles: Marlon, Giant Chasm, Ghetsis and Elite 4 left. If Delibird had better stats, it would be very usable in some of these matches. The STAB Combo is great, but it faints to everything.
Additional Comments: Delibird is cool and if you desperately want a Flyer he is good for that. His movepool cost, late showing and poor stats put him well out of the frame for a team slot.
I will soldier on with all the shittier Pokemon unless someone else wants to grab some :) Most of them don't take a lot to write about because they come ultra late and have virtually no redeeming features.